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(Some Guy)   More palestinians grieved about the WTC than celebrated   (infopal.org ) divider line
    More: Followup  
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1599 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2001 at 9:36 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2001-09-23 09:57:13 AM  
im glad someone finally says the truth and doesnt focus on the most radical of a culture
 
2001-09-23 10:26:21 AM  
People are generally compassionate wherever you go
 
2001-09-23 10:50:19 AM  
the rich ones grieved :/

the poor ones still blames all their troubles on americans
 
2001-09-23 10:56:36 AM  
Less to do with rich versus poor than with educated versus non-educated.
 
2001-09-23 11:11:58 AM  
This is really good to see. Hopefully the medias will cover something like this because for the most part americans think that afghanistan is incredibly happy about terrorism, we haven't seen anything otherwise.
 
2001-09-23 11:18:13 AM  
1) The report is from a Palestinian site and not an independant site
2) The support rallies took place 2-3 days afterwards when the backlash of world publicity started affecting the world's image of the Palestinians
3) They were rallies organised by Arafat (ie not spontaneous) and were not very well attended
4) Note all the signs printed in English for the foreign press and the nice neat pachage with the white rose ...

A nice PR job aimed at repairing the damage but doesn't convince me that this is the majority.

(PS Friends of mine near Ramallah heard the all night celebrations on the 11 Sept)
 
2001-09-23 11:20:32 AM  
Nice. But not to be a spoil sport, I had read that Arafat was rounding up folks for a photo op to make up for the lousy press the Palestinains got when seen cheering. Note that the source of these photos is--of course: Palestine press.
 
2001-09-23 11:24:40 AM  
Well, duh. I coulda told you that.

I've talked with some palestinians. The terrorists are very much like the KKK in the US, a hated minority.
 
2001-09-23 11:33:56 AM  
1) The report is from a Palestinian site and not an independant site

And what would constitute an independent site? The photos are from Reuters. Not independent????

2) The support rallies took place 2-3 days afterwards when the backlash of world publicity started affecting the world's image of the Palestinians

That's conjecture pure and simple. The fact is that they did this gesture, and the world did not, in fact, notice.

3) They were rallies organised by Arafat (ie not spontaneous) and were not very well attended

Rallies organized by militant groups are somehow better?

4) Note all the signs printed in English for the foreign press and the nice neat pachage with the white rose ...
Pretty cynical of you.


A nice PR job aimed at repairing the damage but doesn't convince me that this is the majority.
 
2001-09-23 11:35:51 AM  
On the last point Oldmel made (which i neglected to italicize):
A nice PR job aimed at repairing the damage but doesn't convince me that this is the majority.
Doesn't really sound like you could be convinced. IMHO.
 
2001-09-23 11:41:23 AM  
I didn't want to include this longish letter in the post, but I think that it might help set up the context of the web site better, and perhaps give folks some pause to reconsider what they've "seen" and "heard" (through media).

Dear Friends,
I've had numerous emails from people asking me to help interpret the
scenes they have watched of Palestinians 'celebrating' after the event.

Yes, there were some gatherings of people, particularly in Nablus, who
were shown in the very early hours of the horrible attacks in the US on
the street, dancing and cheering, and passing out chocolate. But, these
expressions were few and certainly did not represent the feelings or
mood of the general population. The deep shock and horror of the
Palestinian people, the real sorrow for all the dead and wounded, was,
and continues to be, unseen by the world, particularly in the USA. It is
the story unheard.

Because those few scenes were disturbing, the easy response is to cast
judgment on the participants, naming those 'celebrating' as inhuman,
despots, or despicable. The more difficult response, though,
particularly in the midst of grief, is to ask the questions about what
might drive people, men, women and children, to such actions. One might
remember that the people who were seen 'celebrating' are a people
who for almost a year have been under a brutal siege, who due to the
siege have been unable to feed their families and hover on the brink of
poverty and despair, who have watched their children and their
parents killed by bullets, tank shells and guided missiles, most of
which are supplied to the Israeli Occupation Army by the USA. One might
remember such things as one watches those images. Attempting to
understand motivations doesn't discount our feelings of anguish at such
scenes, but does allow us to keep humanity a bit more intact in a time
of such utter brokenness.

But, more importantly to me is what has mostly gone unseen by the
American public. I have to ask why these scenes of a few Palestinians
been shown again and again and again, as if they capture the
'truth' of Palestine. How few cameras have caught the spontaneous
sorrow, despair, tears and heartache of the vast majority of the
Palestinian people.

As the news unfolded here on Tuesday afternoon about the extent of the
attacks, people gathered, as people did everywhere, in front of
television screens to learn as much as possible. My phone rang and
rang as Palestinians from around the West Bank called to express their
horror and their condolences.

Yesterday following a prayer service held at St. George's Anglican
Cathedral, I talked briefly to the US Consul General in Jerusalem. We
talked about the scenes from here which were most prevalent on the
TV. He told me that his office had received a stack of faxes of
condolences from Palestinians and Palestinian Organizations 'this high'
(indicating a stack of about 12 inches). He asked his staff to fax a
copy of every last one of them to CNN to give a different visual image
from Palestine.

When we left the cathedral after the service, we drove by the American
Consulate in East Jerusalem. Gathered there were about 30 Palestinian
Muslim schoolgirls with their teachers. Looking grief-stricken,
they held their bouquets of dark flowers and stood behind their row of
candles. Silently, they kept vigil outside our Consulate. But no
cameras captured their quiet sorrow.

When I got home, my neighbor explained that her son who is in 8th grade
came home in the afternoon and talked to her about the students
reactions at school. He told her that everyone was talking about
what had happened. He said that many were asking "how could someone do
that?" "Is someone human who can carry out such acts?" He went
on to
tell her that many of the girls were crying.

Friends, then, began stopping by my home. Palestinian Christian and
Muslim came together, visiting me to express their sorrow and to ask
what they could do. Again, the phone rang incessantly with Palestinians
asking if everyone I knew was okay and asking if they could do anything
to help.

As we talked many went on to tell of stories of their loved ones who are
in the States - relatives they were worried about having been injured or
killed or who had been subject to harassment in the last couple of
days.Others talked of having received emails from people who had been
supporters of their work who wrote saying "I can never again support the
Palestinian people," as if somehow Palestinians everywhere were suddenly
responsible for the attacks in the States.

The remarkable thing to me, though, was that despite such messages,
these same people still wrote letters of condolences, made phone calls
to friends, and asked what they could do to help. Despite the
world, and particularly the American world, not seeing them or seeing
them only as 'terrorists', Palestinians continued to express their
common humanity with people everywhere as they shared in the heartache
and dismay.

Trusting in God's everlasting presence,
Rev. Sandra Olewine
United Methodist Liaison - Jerusalem

Dear Friends,

We have prepared some pictures which show the Palestinian
solidarity with the American people during these very painful times
for them. You can see the pictures here
http://www.infopal.org/docs/spics.htm


The email came to me from a seminary professor, so I doubt that it's based on a cynical/political agenda of some sort.
 
2001-09-23 12:10:29 PM  
Good publicity attempt or not, it's still nice to see some of these people cared. The one thing I didn't like was that "we are victims too!" sign held up by a little boy. really crass, using a little boy and a memorial to advance a political agenda. They shouldn't haved used even part of this for that reason. I would have sent this link wholeheartedly to all my friends had it not been for that.
 
2001-09-23 12:12:24 PM  
What do you think people are going to notice? The small minority of Palestinians who are celebrating loudly in the streets? Or the majority of Palestinians who are grieving personally in their homes or maybe in their mosques?


You guess which one hits the news.
 
2001-09-23 12:37:48 PM  
my, the propraganda machines are kicking in on every side now

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/thompson/
 
2001-09-23 12:39:05 PM  
- propaganda - shiate
 
2001-09-23 12:44:36 PM  
I'm probably mistaken, but why do all the (readable) signs they are holding up seem to be printed out on a computer? It looks like they these photos may have been doctored. Really, all you farking photoshoppers tell me what you think? Take into account that all the other signs that are being held up are hand-drawn and pretty impossible to read.

I'll try looking for the original photos off the Reuter's site. I don't disagree that many Palestinians mourned, but these pics just look fake.
 
2001-09-23 12:50:23 PM  
I stand corrected. NONE OF MY THEORIES AMOUNT TO ANYTHING! fark!

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/2001091​3/wl/imd f13092001090525a.html
 
2001-09-23 12:51:51 PM  
This is just palestinian propaganda. Now that they think that them and their beloved militant leader, Yassir Arafat may be blow away, they decide to put on a good show. It was more than likely Arafat's idea, and the Palestinians are his puppets. Yes, I am sure not all Palestinians were celebrating, but this about as obvious as Arafat donating blood (hopefully, someone will make sure he donates the rest of his blood on the desert sand.) Arafat, Hussein, and Bin Laden are the top terrorist in the world.
 
2001-09-23 01:18:30 PM  
So I guess when Israelis say they're the victims too they must be spouting propaganda. I find it sad that when there's proof that the Palestintians are actual human beings and not a bunch of savage fanatics who deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth like what the ADL or George Will wants us to belive, you just make up a bunch of baseless acusations to claim that they're fake.
 
2001-09-23 01:36:30 PM  
I'd like to believe that most folks in the Middle East felt sympathy for us but this article from an Italian journalist in the Mideast isn't very encouraging.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95001194
 
2001-09-23 01:38:39 PM  
I guess I could have checked for the Reuters and AP photos at another site before I posted my comment, instead of immediately afterwards, but then it wouldn't be a baseless accusation. But you have to admit, at first glance, the text just looks weird (just like my own doctored photos, which these obviously aren't).

:)
 
2001-09-23 01:38:39 PM  
God forbid we should ever be shown something that might quell our anger or prejudice our pre-formed thoughts.

I guess if I see something that shows that not all people who live in Alabama live in mobile homes or wear sheets, that it must simply be propaganda.

I used to work with a Palestinian, and one evening some moron made a snide comment about terrorists, so we began discussing it. He told us that he had a cousin who had joined one of the terror groups, and explained the brainwashing, it's no different than the white supremacy groups here. You find someone who feels that they've somehow been slighted, and build on it, cultivating it into an extreme hate. My co-worker said he hated seeing it happen, and went on about how despite what is shown on CNN, that they are the minority.

Y'know, somehow I believe him more than I believe the American conservative crusaders.

3Horn
 
2001-09-23 02:00:36 PM  
The worst part of this whole thing have been the sorrows expressed by the various Palestinian/Syrian/Lebanese/Iranian/Egyptian terrorist groups. Like they weren't really glad the U.S. had this happen. What bullshiat. They were just angry they didn't have the infrastructure and planning to pull this off.

Vil
 
2001-09-23 02:14:47 PM  
I know what I saw when Arafat was interviewed right after the WTC attack. He was clearly shaken. you cynics and arab haters will say he was worried about his own future. However, NO ONE who has ANY knowledge about these affairs have implicated the Palestinians in the attack. NOT ONE.

I'm not anti-Israel here. I'm pro people (an unusual stance for me). some of us seem to think that only the enemy indulges in propaganda and that's naive.
 
2001-09-23 02:15:35 PM  
I have been trying to find out as much about this as possible. As a result I have visited some Palestinian news sites just to see what they think. They all seem to reflect the same sentiment that MadCow's letter does.

That is, the celebrations were attended by a minority, Palestinians don't really feel that way. But then, go on to justify why they did it.

The only way to see the truth here is to read between the lines, and what I see is that these (anti-American)celebrations do seem to represent the true feelings of Palestinians.
 
2001-09-23 02:55:21 PM  
3Horn: I suspected as much. It is that sort of bigoted behavior that makes white supremacist groups a good analogy here.

Part of me just really wants to believe that most people are not capable of committing such acts (as the WTC), that people would never associate themselves in large numbers with groups who would do that.

What I've really been craving after all of this is what it is really like for the day-to-day Middle Easterner. We've heard about them living with terrorism for years now. We've heard about impoverished conditions. But how many of them are in line with radical fundamental Islam? Is it mostly the disenfranchised lower classes? What ratio of upper or middle class people are involved? Do they even have a middle class to speak of?

Are there going to be revolts in several other countries, like Indonesia, Egypt, or even Pakistan?

We're stepping into a hugh mess here. Under the circumstances though, I don't think we have an alternative.
 
2001-09-23 03:36:58 PM  
actually, ciphero - according to the FBI -and assuming that thier identities aren't fake - all the hijackers involved in the USA attack were well-educated and clean cut (not impoverished) men. I think that was the main difference between the attacks on Israel and the USA. The bombers there were usually impoverished teens-to early twenties with nothing to really live for, except their place in the afterlife, whereas here the bombers were a part of society for years - just your regular next door neighbors - until they got the call to emerge from the woodworks.

Ever see Arlington Road? I'd strongly recommend it....scary.
 
2001-09-23 04:06:55 PM  
Change to please.
 
2001-09-23 05:20:25 PM  
I agree. Should be "OBVIOUS." Curse my refusal to completely give up faith in the goodness of human nature. Beleive me, I've been trying for years.
 
2001-09-23 08:16:14 PM  
The number of Palestinians who celebrated the attacks on us is probably equivalent to the number of Americans who persecuted innocent Muslims in this country. Dumb farks show up everywhere and, unfortunately, get the lion's share of the media's attention, especially if it helps support the appearance of things being worse than they really are. All media, world-wide, seize upon the negative, seeing it as the way to attract the most viewers, which, sadly enough, is true.
 
2001-09-23 08:26:15 PM  
i dont know if any of you saw 60 minutes just now

but heres an interesting related link to this topic:

http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,312098-412,00.shtml
 
2001-09-23 09:46:10 PM  
My mind is not made up on this matter. I feel that both sides are so focused on their struggle that they will use any advantage to press their agenda. I do not trust news sources that pitch one side or the other. Hell, I'm not even believing most journalists on this matter.

The real irony is that bin Laden doesn't really support the Palestinian cause. He's been castigated by other Muslims for not taking their cause. His big issue is the religious purification of the Islamic states, starting with the Arabian peninsula.

Here's a link to an interesting in the New Republic, not by any means a 'conservative' publication:

http://www.thenewrepublic.com/100101/trb100101.html
 
2001-09-23 09:57:05 PM  
Do *we* cheer and celebrate when the Israelis wipe out a Palestinian town? You farking liars, of course you do.
You don't? Oh, but that's because we're civilized creatures and those filthy Arabs are a bunch of lice-infested mongrels, right? ALL OF THEM! RIGHT?!
Pathetic. I think I share what MANY Palestinians feel..
1) The huge loss of life was terrible.
2) This is a result of US policy in the Middle East. Nobody is saying this was deserved, but it's a result of US foreign policy. "They hate our freedom and way of life" is the most pathetic excuse I've ever heard. Once in a while some people are going to have to look around and realize they don't live in a black and white world.
 
2001-09-23 10:41:26 PM  
[image from fark.com too old to be available]

One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch...
 
2001-09-24 02:36:35 AM  
Olddmel, you're a fvcking asshole.
 
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