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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   Joshua Cribbs' agent is "insulted" by the Browns $1.4 million/year offer and opts to go public, jeopardizing his client's public image instead of using an advanced negotiating technique called the "counter offer"   (cleveland.com) divider line 132
    More: Dumbass, Josh Cribbs, the browns, Browns, Mike Holmgren, Devin Hester, kick returner, safety blitz, Randy Lerner  
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1383 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Jan 2010 at 9:04 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-01-07 08:15:42 AM
Maybe if he'd finished up that communications degree, he'd be better at ACTUALLY COMMUNICATING, instead of sulking because it's ONLY a mil and a half a year.
 
2010-01-07 08:58:54 AM
I would want to get out of Cleveland too.
 
2010-01-07 09:05:59 AM
Note to Josh Cribbs: Devin Hester

In two years you'll be a barely -average backup receiver.

Take what you can get.
 
2010-01-07 09:10:04 AM
Remember, Cribbs did return a kick off for a touchdown once this year, which means that he accounts for 60% of the Browns scoring for the 09-10 season.
 
2010-01-07 09:12:00 AM
This is also known as the "Oh shiat the CBA is toast and the owners are lining up to play hardball and there might be an '11 lockout and I better get as many big contracts as I can this year" negotiating strategy.
 
2010-01-07 09:16:58 AM
With a 2011 lockout looming and no salary cap next year, it seems like fair market value for a player in Cleveland. Only a couple teams (Dallas) will be throwing around big money to make a run at the Superbowl (in Dallas) next year. The others will play wait and see.
 
2010-01-07 09:19:06 AM
It's kind of difficult to make a counter offer when the Browns don't return any of your calls or emails.
 
2010-01-07 09:20:07 AM
LarryDan43: With a 2011 lockout looming and no salary cap next year, it seems like fair market value for a player in Cleveland. Only a couple teams (Dallas) will be throwing around big money to make a run at the Superbowl (in Dallas) next year. The others will play wait and see.

I expect to see the Washington Snyders will doing the same. Small and mid-market teams will not be able to keep up.
 
2010-01-07 09:20:25 AM
Well - they offered him what Quinn made this year - I don't think its much of a stretch to suggest he was more important than Quinn. They probably should have offered him something in the $3M/year range or somewhat less with a bigger signing bonus.

I HATE when guys want to renegotiate a contract after having one decent year - wanting to move from "overpaid" to "insanely overpaid" - but Cribbs value vs pay was so lopsided in the other direction I am violating my own "you signed it, live by it" policy - he deserves to get paid and it SHOULD reflect what he meant to the team THIS year - kind of a bonus for at least keeping us marginally interested in watching the Browns play early in the year - even if it was typically only after the other team had just scored.
 
2010-01-07 09:23:23 AM
I love Josh Cribbs. I love all the former MAC quarterbacks playing in the NFL. He's my favorite NFL player.

He's not worth what he's asking for. Because his plays are so prominent, and get so much coverage, their actual impact on the game are overstated. He nets the team an extra 20-25 points a year, which is significantly less than even a replacement-level running back or wide receiver.
 
2010-01-07 09:23:23 AM
They still have 3 years on your contract. They're doing you a favor.
 
2010-01-07 09:26:36 AM
From Wiki:On October 18, Cribbs returned a Pittsburgh kickoff for a touchdown, breaking the team record for returns for a touchdown. In this game he became the first NFL player to throw an interception and record a kick-off return touchdown in the same game since 1950.

Who keeps track of this stuff? Rhetorical question.
 
2010-01-07 09:26:44 AM
capnmonkey: Remember, Cribbs did return a kick off for a touchdown once this year, which means that he accounts for 60% of the Browns scoring for the 09-10 season.

Three times, actually. He owns the career record now, as well.
 
2010-01-07 09:26:50 AM
bubbaprog: I love Josh Cribbs. I love all the former MAC quarterbacks playing in the NFL. He's my favorite NFL player.

He's not worth what he's asking for. Because his plays are so prominent, and get so much coverage, their actual impact on the game are overstated. He nets the team an extra 20-25 points a year, which is significantly less than even a replacement-level running back or wide receiver.


yea thats pretty on point. Hes an explosive player, but hes not an every down player. Not worth top dollar.
 
2010-01-07 09:29:28 AM
Brown's should trade him and get something for him before he get's slow
 
2010-01-07 09:30:33 AM
zamboni: From Wiki:On October 18, Cribbs returned a Pittsburgh kickoff for a touchdown, breaking the team record for returns for a touchdown. In this game he became the first NFL player to throw an interception and record a kick-off return touchdown in the same game since 1950.

Who keeps track of this stuff? Rhetorical question.


Should be relatively trivial to figure out with a proper database. Which I imagine is how they found it.
 
2010-01-07 09:33:45 AM
kmfjd: Brown's should trade him and get something for him before he get's slow

i396.photobucket.com

Seriously. Twice in one sentence?
 
2010-01-07 09:33:49 AM
I don't know what he is asking for or what he is worth (they all get paid too much), but subby hit the nail on the head. Don't like an offer? Farking counteroffer. Its a negotiation.

Cribbs is not only a great althete and the best player the Browns have, he also seems to be a nice enough guy. This is his douchebag agent talking. I hope he doesn't ruin Cribbs.

How the fark can you threaten to "clean out your locker" (i.e. making it sound permanent, not just because the season is over) when you are under a contract? He has at least a year left, maybe two. Cribbs may not like it, but the Browns have no obligation to redo his contract now. They will because they want to keep him on the team and make him happy. Greed will ruin the situation, however.
 
2010-01-07 09:35:00 AM
2wolves: I expect to see the Washington Snyders will doing the same. Small and mid-market teams will not be able to keep up.

I think people are going to be shocked how many teams go into defensive mode if we do end up with an uncapped year. When I see things like agents threatening players walking 4 days after the regular season has ended, it makes me think that agents are in the know on this: Better get your drink before the well goes dry.

For a long time popularity and the TV deals have made the NFL seem like this invincible juggernaut of financial stability, but we're already starting to see the cracks in a lot of places, more blackouts then ever, LA is seemingly going to have their pick of at least two (Jacksonville, Buffalo) trouble franchises to move, there's open talk of a lockout and the reaction from the owners so far have been big yawns...something tells me the NFL is in for a harsh dose of reality.
 
2010-01-07 09:36:55 AM
vinnydoz007: yea thats pretty on point. Hes an explosive player, but hes not an every down player. Not worth top dollar.

He's worth at least top 10 average for kick returners, which is what they stated in the article.

Also, just because he doesn't score on every return doesn't mean he is without value. I'd like to see avg return length or avg starting position after kickoff for Brown vs other teams.
 
2010-01-07 09:38:14 AM
Fizpez: Well - they offered him what Quinn made this year - I don't think its much of a stretch to suggest he was more important than Quinn. They probably should have offered him something in the $3M/year range or somewhat less with a bigger signing bonus.

I HATE when guys want to renegotiate a contract after having one decent year - wanting to move from "overpaid" to "insanely overpaid" - but Cribbs value vs pay was so lopsided in the other direction I am violating my own "you signed it, live by it" policy - he deserves to get paid and it SHOULD reflect what he meant to the team THIS year - kind of a bonus for at least keeping us marginally interested in watching the Browns play early in the year - even if it was typically only after the other team had just scored.


The worst thing they could do is pay that guy more. He's probably got one good year of returning kickoffs and punts left, then what?

his career RECEIVING stats:
36 receptions
288 yards
2 TDs

career RUSHING stats:
620 yards
2 TDS
18 fumbles (5 lost)

Statitiscally, he's awful if you remove his occasional magic on returns. Those will be gone once his speed drops off a step or so, just like Hester's did. Remember when Hester was a return king...oh...TWO YEARS ago? Now he's not even returning kicks and isn't a threat with a 'good' QB.
 
2010-01-07 09:39:09 AM
The Slush: zamboni: From Wiki:On October 18, Cribbs returned a Pittsburgh kickoff for a touchdown, breaking the team record for returns for a touchdown. In this game he became the first NFL player to throw an interception and record a kick-off return touchdown in the same game since 1950.

Who keeps track of this stuff? Rhetorical question.

Should be relatively trivial to figure out with a proper database. Which I imagine is how they found it.


select for td on return. select in (gameID) from table noting interception. get player id
 
2010-01-07 09:40:36 AM
ihatedumbpeople: Note to Josh Cribbs: Devin Hester

In two years you'll be a barely -average backup receiver.

Take what you can get.


This.

As a Bears fan, the misuse of Hester is number one on the list of things I'm pissed at the Bears about.

They had the most dominant return guy in history, and they sacrificed his explosive ability to make him into an at-best average WR. You could replace his WR abilities relatively easy. You cannot replace the fact that he would either return kickoffs and punts for TD's or he would give you great field position.

A true #1 WR is a guy that has speed, strength, great hands, and a natural feel for how to get open.

Hester has the speed, and that's it. He'll never be the guy that goes up and pulls the ball out of double coverage. He'll never be the guy that scrambles with a second or third move to get open. He'll never be the guy that seems to always be right where the QB puts the ball.

What's the major problem? The Bears are paying him like he is that guy.
 
2010-01-07 09:41:33 AM
historycat: It's kind of difficult to make a counter offer when the Browns don't return any of your calls or emails.

hmm, i wonder if there might be some changes going on in the organization that might take precedence...like that holmgren and the head coach thing...maybe the kickoff returner could wait a few days.
 
2010-01-07 09:43:49 AM
dimoko: historycat: It's kind of difficult to make a counter offer when the Browns don't return any of your calls or emails.

hmm, i wonder if there might be some changes going on in the organization that might take precedence...like that holmgren and the head coach thing...maybe the kickoff returner could wait a few days.


I kind of agree, but at least call them back and say, "Hey we're looking at coaches and GMs first. We will meet with you Feb 15, and get this all worked out".
 
2010-01-07 09:47:08 AM
The Slush: zamboni: From Wiki:On October 18, Cribbs returned a Pittsburgh kickoff for a touchdown, breaking the team record for returns for a touchdown. In this game he became the first NFL player to throw an interception and record a kick-off return touchdown in the same game since 1950.

Who keeps track of this stuff? Rhetorical question.

Should be relatively trivial to figure out with a proper database. Which I imagine is how they found it.


OK, lets review the definition of "rhetorical question."

Just kidding.

Yeah, I know... pro-football-reference.com for instance has some truly useless stuff on there. But at some point, someone had to say "Hey, he ran back a touchdown and threw an interception... let's see if anyone in the history of pro football ever did that!" "Hey, he sacked the quarterback and kicked a field goal!" "Hey he was tackled in the endzone for a safety and he tackled someone for a safety!" etc.
 
2010-01-07 09:48:08 AM
historycat: dimoko: historycat: It's kind of difficult to make a counter offer when the Browns don't return any of your calls or emails.

hmm, i wonder if there might be some changes going on in the organization that might take precedence...like that holmgren and the head coach thing...maybe the kickoff returner could wait a few days.

I kind of agree, but at least call them back and say, "Hey we're looking at coaches and GMs first. We will meet with you Feb 15, and get this all worked out".


i mostly blame cribbs agent, thats why i worded the headline like i did, i think cribbs wants to stay, but his agent is making him play hardball because he doesnt get a cent from his CURRENT deal...if i were his agent i would be beating the endorsement bushes with nike or reebok to get some real money going anyay.
 
2010-01-07 09:49:31 AM
The Slush: capnmonkey: Remember, Cribbs did return a kick off for a touchdown once this year, which means that he accounts for 60% of the Browns scoring for the 09-10 season.

Three times, actually. He owns the career record now, as well.


I know, I know. Didn't he have two in one game even?
Sorry, just piling on for fun, because ya know, it's the Browns.
 
2010-01-07 09:51:58 AM
Orgasmatron138: They had the most dominant return guy in history, and they sacrificed his explosive ability to make him into an at-best average WR. You could replace his WR abilities relatively easy. You cannot replace the fact that he would either return kickoffs and punts for TD's or he would give you great field position.

A true #1 WR is a guy that has speed, strength, great hands, and a natural feel for how to get open.

Hester has the speed, and that's it. He'll never be the guy that goes up and pulls the ball out of double coverage. He'll never be the guy that scrambles with a second or third move to get open. He'll never be the guy that seems to always be right where the QB puts the ball.

What's the major problem? The Bears are paying him like he is that guy.


I don't know, I was impressed more than a few times by Hester's hands this year on some of Cutler's bullets over the middle. Granted though, Devin Aroamasamalingdong looked better when he played.

The problem with having a dedicated kick returner is what we saw with Hester by the end of 2007. Teams just stopped kicking to him and everything goes out of bounds. Which is great if you're a team that can take advantage of getting the ball on the 40, but this is the Bears we're talking about.

Hester is still the fastest or second fastest guy on the team (Knox might be faster). If they put him back on return duty, they should also try to work him in on maybe 10 snaps on offense just because he's so dangerous when he has room to run. Aromashadu and Bennett should be the starting WRs, with Knox rotating in, but Hester has too much talent to be a decoy.
 
2010-01-07 09:52:07 AM
ihatedumbpeople:
career RUSHING stats:
620 yards
2 TDS
18 fumbles (5 lost)


Where are you getting your stats from?

Link - ESPN (new window)

He has 1 fumble (0 lost).

And to be fair, he wasn't feautred in the flash/wildcat package until this year, and he average 6.9 yards a carry.
 
2010-01-07 09:54:27 AM
oshkosh: How the fark can you threaten to "clean out your locker" (i.e. making it sound permanent, not just because the season is over) when you are under a contract?

Because there is no CBA next year?

Because the NFLPA has the worst contracts of any professional sports?

Because the contract is already cancellable by the Browns, so eff them?

2010 or 2011 is going to be without "real" NFL football players. Owners are too greedy, an the contract situation in the NFL already favors management so much that I can't believe that OSHA hasnt stepped in?
 
2010-01-07 09:54:54 AM
Oh a counter-offer! See, that's what we lawyers - I'm a lawyer - refer to as a "counter-offer"
 
2010-01-07 09:54:58 AM
www.cba.uri.edu

Dear Mr. Cribbs,

Your agent blows.

Sincerely,

Veedee
 
2010-01-07 09:55:01 AM
dimoko: historycat: dimoko: historycat: It's kind of difficult to make a counter offer when the Browns don't return any of your calls or emails.

hmm, i wonder if there might be some changes going on in the organization that might take precedence...like that holmgren and the head coach thing...maybe the kickoff returner could wait a few days.

I kind of agree, but at least call them back and say, "Hey we're looking at coaches and GMs first. We will meet with you Feb 15, and get this all worked out".

i mostly blame cribbs agent, thats why i worded the headline like i did, i think cribbs wants to stay, but his agent is making him play hardball because he doesnt get a cent from his CURRENT deal...if i were his agent i would be beating the endorsement bushes with nike or reebok to get some real money going anyay.


Ya,I commented on one of the sports blogs, I don't understand why this guy doesn't have a shoe deal. He's got his own TV show, and really contributes to the community (Jim Rome show before Xmas). He really needs to be out there more.

But still. Return the phone call make an appointment. This Dawn person should be fired.
 
2010-01-07 09:55:34 AM
Jesus Christ, he's stupid.

I now hope that Holmgren Keyshawns his ass. He can have fun sitting at home for three years.

/And it would be great if he hired Jon Gruden to do it, too.
 
2010-01-07 09:59:10 AM
MarkKetch: ihatedumbpeople:
career RUSHING stats:
620 yards
2 TDS
18 fumbles (5 lost)

Where are you getting your stats from?

Link - ESPN (new window)

He has 1 fumble (0 lost).

And to be fair, he wasn't feautred in the flash/wildcat package until this year, and he average 6.9 yards a carry.


Note: I said CAREER stats...I was trying to prove how (relatively) useless he's been in 5 years on the team. His career receiving stats look like a great GAME for a starting receiver.

i911.photobucket.com
 
2010-01-07 10:00:18 AM
bubbaprog: I love Josh Cribbs. I love all the former MAC quarterbacks playing in the NFL. He's my favorite NFL player.

He's not worth what he's asking for. Because his plays are so prominent, and get so much coverage, their actual impact on the game are overstated. He nets the team an extra 20-25 points a year, which is significantly less than even a replacement-level running back or wide receiver.


By that logic, you should cut the entire offensive line and investing all your money in highly paid wide receivers would guarantee you a super bowl.
 
2010-01-07 10:00:41 AM
ihatedumbpeople: MarkKetch: ihatedumbpeople:
career RUSHING stats:
620 yards
2 TDS
18 fumbles (5 lost)

Where are you getting your stats from?

Link - ESPN (new window)

He has 1 fumble (0 lost).

And to be fair, he wasn't feautred in the flash/wildcat package until this year, and he average 6.9 yards a carry.

Note: I said CAREER stats...I was trying to prove how (relatively) useless he's been in 5 years on the team. His career receiving stats look like a great GAME for a starting receiver.



Did you click my link? Because ESPN has his fumbles at 1/0 for career rushing....
 
2010-01-07 10:01:43 AM
jayhawk88: 2wolves: I expect to see the Washington Snyders will doing the same. Small and mid-market teams will not be able to keep up.

I think people are going to be shocked how many teams go into defensive mode if we do end up with an uncapped year. When I see things like agents threatening players walking 4 days after the regular season has ended, it makes me think that agents are in the know on this: Better get your drink before the well goes dry.

For a long time popularity and the TV deals have made the NFL seem like this invincible juggernaut of financial stability, but we're already starting to see the cracks in a lot of places, more blackouts then ever, LA is seemingly going to have their pick of at least two (Jacksonville, Buffalo) trouble franchises to move, there's open talk of a lockout and the reaction from the owners so far have been big yawns...something tells me the NFL is in for a harsh dose of reality.


I still don't see how Buffalo can move. They sold out every home game for the 10th season in a row this year. The fans support that team no matter how shiatty they are. I just don't see how the NFL can rationalize moving them or putting home games in Canada. It's a disgrace.
 
2010-01-07 10:02:49 AM
MarkKetch: ihatedumbpeople: MarkKetch: ihatedumbpeople:
career RUSHING stats:
620 yards
2 TDS
18 fumbles (5 lost)

Where are you getting your stats from?

Link - ESPN (new window)

He has 1 fumble (0 lost).

And to be fair, he wasn't feautred in the flash/wildcat package until this year, and he average 6.9 yards a carry.

Note: I said CAREER stats...I was trying to prove how (relatively) useless he's been in 5 years on the team. His career receiving stats look like a great GAME for a starting receiver.


Did you click my link? Because ESPN has his fumbles at 1/0 for career rushing....


Lol. Yahoo has him at 5/3. No one knows.
 
2010-01-07 10:03:48 AM
historycat: dimoko: historycat: dimoko: historycat: It's kind of difficult to make a counter offer when the Browns don't return any of your calls or emails.

hmm, i wonder if there might be some changes going on in the organization that might take precedence...like that holmgren and the head coach thing...maybe the kickoff returner could wait a few days.

I kind of agree, but at least call them back and say, "Hey we're looking at coaches and GMs first. We will meet with you Feb 15, and get this all worked out".

i mostly blame cribbs agent, thats why i worded the headline like i did, i think cribbs wants to stay, but his agent is making him play hardball because he doesnt get a cent from his CURRENT deal...if i were his agent i would be beating the endorsement bushes with nike or reebok to get some real money going anyay.

Ya,I commented on one of the sports blogs, I don't understand why this guy doesn't have a shoe deal. He's got his own TV show, and really contributes to the community (Jim Rome show before Xmas). He really needs to be out there more.

But still. Return the phone call make an appointment. This Dawn person should be fired.


i expect she will be...actually
 
2010-01-07 10:05:46 AM
k4mi: I still don't see how Buffalo can move. They sold out every home game for the 10th season in a row this year. The fans support that team no matter how shiatty they are. I just don't see how the NFL can rationalize moving them or putting home games in Canada. It's a disgrace.

Easy: Selling out Ralph Wilson Stadium generates less revenue than a half-sold game at Fed-Ex field. Not enough seats, particularly not enough luxury seats. And the market is saturated with Buffalo merchandise. Moving the team, particularly to Toronto, and rebranding it allows you to resell most of the merchandise you have already sold, to people who will need to buy that new $150 replica team jersey.
 
2010-01-07 10:08:58 AM
2010 is going to be an interesting year. We are about to find out just how much attempting to buy a championship pays off.

What are everyones' thoughts about the potential 2011 lockout? I think that it would be pretty dangerous for the NFL to have a work stoppage myself. I get this sense that a fairly broad portion of the fan base is sick of their shiat, although a very low percentage of them would actually be able to bring themselves to not be able to care.
 
2010-01-07 10:10:18 AM
The owners are in for a very large harsh dose of reality. The NFLPA has the *worst* CBA among any major sport.

The players will force some of the issues that need to be addressed; guaranteed contracts, lifetime medical care, proper pensions. There's gonna be a lockout/strike and it will be a long climb back up the hill.
 
2010-01-07 10:14:50 AM
MarkKetch: ihatedumbpeople: MarkKetch: ihatedumbpeople:
career RUSHING stats:
620 yards
2 TDS
18 fumbles (5 lost)

Where are you getting your stats from?

Link - ESPN (new window)

He has 1 fumble (0 lost).

And to be fair, he wasn't feautred in the flash/wildcat package until this year, and he average 6.9 yards a carry.

Note: I said CAREER stats...I was trying to prove how (relatively) useless he's been in 5 years on the team. His career receiving stats look like a great GAME for a starting receiver.


Did you click my link? Because ESPN has his fumbles at 1/0 for career rushing....


has to be wrong...I can recall two fumbles this year alone.
Actually, if you go to Cribbs' 2009 game log you'll see he fumbled 6 times this year alone, lost two...
 
2010-01-07 10:15:06 AM
KiwDaWabbit: 2010 is going to be an interesting year. We are about to find out just how much attempting to buy a championship pays off.

What are everyones' thoughts about the potential 2011 lockout? I think that it would be pretty dangerous for the NFL to have a work stoppage myself. I get this sense that a fairly broad portion of the fan base is sick of their shiat, although a very low percentage of them would actually be able to bring themselves to not be able to care.


A lockout is likely, I believe. Regardless, the sport will never again have a salary cap. Owners are willing to go to an uncapped year not because they can spend as much as they want to get players, but because it also removes the required percentage of revenues that must be spent on player salaries. Average salaries will plummet under an uncapped system, and owner profits will skyrocket, at least in the short term.

But my ultimate thought is that Goodell is going to destroy the NFL, because he was raised believing in it's invincibility, unlike Tagliabo.
 
2010-01-07 10:15:11 AM
Lost Thought 00:

and investing all your money in highly paid wide receivers would guarantee you a super bowl.

imgs.sfgate.com

/ newsletter.subscribe.leprosy
 
2010-01-07 10:17:24 AM
EnderWiggnz: The owners are in for a very large harsh dose of reality. The NFLPA has the *worst* CBA among any major sport.

The players will force some of the issues that need to be addressed; guaranteed contracts, lifetime medical care, proper pensions. There's gonna be a lockout/strike and it will be a long climb back up the hill.


I think you're assuming the wrong adversaries. All the points you brought up will be addressed but the real gap is going to be between the owners. There isn't going to be a Wellington Mara to stand up and say the franchises need to share revenue so all boats rise with the tide.
 
2010-01-07 10:19:45 AM
Man, I love football. And I'm a Browns fan. My gut feel is that the two are mutually exclusive.

/got nothing.
//Still remember Sipe throwing an interception to Oakland.
 
2010-01-07 10:22:58 AM
k4mi: I still don't see how Buffalo can move. They sold out every home game for the 10th season in a row this year. The fans support that team no matter how shiatty they are. I just don't see how the NFL can rationalize moving them or putting home games in Canada. It's a disgrace.

I don't disagree, but at the same time, seems like the writing is on the wall. The NFL sure as hell isn't going to be approving any new expansion franchises anytime soon, and they want to put a team in Toronto and LA. Wilson seems up for the Toronto move at least. Probably this is what will happen, with the Jags headed to LA.

Business is business I guess, but you're right, uprooting the Bills will be shameful for the NFL on many levels.
 
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