Uh, WTF happened to my spacing? I guess I should go get a Mac.

Ouroborus, of course... they make G3 and G4 upgrade CARDS. You cannot replace the processor that comes with a mac. You can however, install an upgrade CARD with a new processor on it which will override the processor built into the motherboard.

OS X is also, by its very nature, a Unix wannabe.

Close Tourney3p0. It. Is. Unix.

RagingLeonard: :-)

I upgrade memory and hard disk storage on the Macs at work every so often when I need to. Those are probably the two most common upgrades people do. I've pulled cheap SDRAM from PC's and thrown it in the Macs without a problem. The latest generation of Macs use IDE drives so that's less of a hit on the wallet than back in the SCSI days.

I still hate those silly old generation iMacs my boss seems to collect off of ebay. I don't like having to literally unplug the thing when it locks up. Nope, holding the start button to reset sometimes doesn't even work.

RagingLeonard "Speaking as someone who has seen Macs crash I can attest to the fact that they are NOT granite-solid, and it's easier and much cheaper for the average computer user to recover their Windows based OS."

HA!.. its easier and much cheaper for the average computer user to recover their windows based os?!? Dont even try that. For years until what.. WinXP.. you couldnt even boot your computer from your CD! From what I know, you still cant boot from a ZIP drive.. which I had to do one time on my mac to save it. But then you assume that its easier and cheaper to recover a windows machine? Ever heard .. "Time is Money"? The last place I worked, we had a couple PC fark-ups and it took the system admins hours upon hours to re-install Win2k and get around all the hardware issues and shiat like that. If it were a mac and the system took a dump, I would put in the system restore CD..(not flooppy) and boot from the CD.. and run the restore app. Then wait 20 minutes and I'm back on my way. 20 minutes, not 4 hours. You tell me thats more difficult and more expensive? I think not.

SherKhan:

If you think OS X is Unix, you must know nothing about Unix.

Universal Computer Truths:


Linux / Unix = King of Web Hosting and Development.

Macintosh = King of Graphics and Video Editing.

Windows = King of Universality and Marketing.


All three have their ups, if you dont want to do heavy Graphics or Video work, don't buy a Mac. If you dont want to deal with an OS that is insanely easy to exploit and reprogram, dont buy an IBM. If you dont want to use an obscure operating system that you need a Guru friend to figure out, dont install Linux on anything.

Quit you're whining about which is better, they're all good, although in my opinion (as a Linux and Macintosh user) microsoft made a mistake doing away with their command prompt being a big part of their operating system. I love that X finaly has one, and use a Konsole more than I use the GUI on my RH box.

Each of us needs different things from a computer, so quit your whining about the others and just use yours!


-Nicoli

(PS: Any Linux Geeks out there who want to war over Distros, I fully support that practice! RedHat forever!)

SherKhan:

OS X is based on NeXTStep, which Apple likes to tell its users is based on FreeBSD. Technically they're right, but it's still not Unix.

"But Tourney3p0, you're a goddamn liar! I need to know your proof!"

Well Johnny, NeXTStep runs on top of Mach, which uses a BSD filesystem and the standard BSD shells. Most of the system calls from Unix were missing however, and it was not POSIX compliant. Later on however, NeXTStep started tossing in more "ported" code. It was hacked in and not from a true Unix, and only meets 1 API out of 3 to be considered Unix. But to its credit, OS X is more of a Unix than Mach. Good job, Apple.

You people haven't done it yet, so:

Just for fun and because I don't really care what anyone uses besides myself, here's a funny story from slashdot:

http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm

Robotninja, the game wasn't spectacular and who the hell cares about *one* game anyway? Blaming a corporation like Microsoft of being greedy is just stupid, all companies including Apple and Bungie are out there to make money. You here on Earth dude?

Yeah yeah, I know I know... the point there was that something that SHOULD have been and was going to be available for many was instead made only available for a select few. I know it makes business sense, and the point of a business is to make money. But... 2 years later, man! Surely you can see the irony I was talking about (in relation to Shank's post basically being about gaming), right?

And FYI, as I understand, one of the reasons it didn't live up to the hype when it did come out was that they had to cut corners, both technologically and creatively (especially creatively), to get it to work on the X-box when Microsoft wanted it to ship.

And what is so complicated about PC's? That their mouse's have two buttons?

My mouse has two buttons and a scroll wheel too. What of it?

Course, I didn't at any time say "PCs have (n degrees) of complication." (I'll assume that we're talking about Windows here) Yeah, they are a hell of a lot easier to use today than they've ever been. This is true of both systems now. If you ask me, XP is simplified in many of the wrong places and ways ("dumbed down" is a better word... it's less like a streamlined tool and more like an annoying nanny), but that's just my opinion.

I don't think Windows is as complicated as it used to be, and I don't think the gulf that seperates it in ease-of-use terms from Mac OS is as wide as it once was. I think a Mac is still easier to use and more intuitive (again, my opinion), though, and even if the degree of difference is very small, there's still no reason why I or someone else who feels the same way should use something that's more complicated and/or less intuitive (this being a bigger issue than overall difficulty of use, IMO).

BUT, I'm not a gamer, which is an important thing to keep in mind when it comes to my opinion.


I don't think I've ever met anyone who threw their hands up in disgust and said "Windows XP is too difficult to use!" And if I did meet such a person, they probably wouldn't be capable of stimulating conversation anyway.

Gah, did I SAY Windows XP was "too difficult to use?"

My response to Sunwalk works for you too, except from reading your other posts in the thread, it should probably include more insults. Add them in where appropriate.

"you must know nothing about Unix"

And you would be correct sir! :-)

Gotta go baby-sit some bratwursts.

Chow....

Thank you, BloodyL.

What a giant bunch of nerds we all are. We turn a delightful b0obeez link into a OS flamewar.
I surrender.
Have fun.

[i]Linux is, by its very nature, a UNIX wannabe.[/i]

You're telling me that a free, fully featured text and graphical OS, along with customization out the ass without the whole "arcane" nature to it is inferior to the old bloated OS that Unix is today?

You PC-centric peeps better beware of the PPC970 chip coming this summer. Muhuhwhwuwhwuwhwa!

Look at the cost of the high-end G4s now on sale, and tell me: how much do you think the computers using that will cost?

Well Johnny, NeXTStep runs on top of Mach, which uses a BSD filesystem and the standard BSD shells. Most of the system calls from Unix were missing however, and it was not POSIX compliant. Later on however, NeXTStep started tossing in more "ported" code. It was hacked in and not from a true Unix, and only meets 1 API out of 3 to be considered Unix. But to its credit, OS X is more of a Unix than Mach. Good job, Apple.

Say, maybe I spoke too soon about you. Backing up at least some of what you say with facts. Good show (no sarcasm intended).

However, "based on" isn't the same thing as "is.

But hey, both Mach and X are still more Unix than Windows is, correct? ;-)

I transfer files from my PowerBook to my WinTel desktop by using my iDisk. No problem. By the way, my OS X machine has never crashed. I can't say the same for XP. Also, with XP I've had to deal with driver problems for almost every single peripheral device I have, even though the manufacturers claim that Windows 2000 drivers will work. For the most part they don't.

think you mean that it's called the "intranet". I shudder to think that I'd have to send my files out to some external location, go to another computer, and then download them once again from somewhere outside my network.

*raises hands*

Hey, you got me, I did indeed mean "intra-" rather than "inter-." Originally I'd just typed something like "network," but then I changed it for some reason. Mistake on my part.

Like I said, I see now that you make some good points about some things, so I apologize for the "jackass" remark.

I'm the resident computer guru for most of my friends and relatives who don't really know what they're doing when it comes to computers. I started in 1981 on a Commodore Vic-20, learned my way around the Apple ][e,moved to a C-128, then an Amiga. They respected my vast knowledge and I liked being thought of as a guy who knew computers.

Well, I won't touch their Windows boxes any more. I hate it because it makes me feel that I can't 'figure Windows out', but in reality, I could, I just don't care to. The last time I dealt with it, it took 18 hours to install Windows 98. fark that. I don't need to waste my time bothering with that when I could be using a machine that works.

I'd rather do work on my computer than work on my computer.

CigaretteSmokingMan:
AND how many peripherals are we talking about exactly?

You sound like you don't know what you're doing.

Courtesy Linux for Lesbians, of course.

for shame..... not one NSFW link in this entire boobies post....

please turn in your fark account and key chain when you leave

Speaking for myself (which I usually do), I have gotten my MCSE twice now (for NT 4.0 and 2000), I've been a loyal PC user for years, and defended Microsoft against my Linux running cousin who seems to think that anyone who doesn't bow down before Linux has some sort of mental retardation.

I will further say that I actually like XP as an OS. However, after the numerous security updates that have wreaked havoc on my personal machine (and forced us to go to Red Hat Servers at work after our 2000 Servers were abused on a regular basis), I've actually just ordered a new Powerbook this week.

I've had a little time to sit down and play with OS X 10.2, and frankly it is the coolest thing I've ever seen. The ability to open up a terminal and go to town is stellar, and really, I'm able to run MS Office X, which is the only program I was concerned about porting over. Now granted I am not a gamer, but I think personally that for the things I do, the Mac is going to be a vast improvement over my PC.

That said, It sucks that UPS doesn't deliver Saturday, and that I have to wait til' Monday to get my sweet new machine.

I meant to add, on the Office X thing that even if I couldn't afford Microsoft's bloated program running on OS X there is always 'Open Office' f0 free. So really, Open source wins out.

Farked.

here is one from a wired story a while back...

Teh womenz will sex my case!



I'd honestly like to see a woman with bubble lights running up her... legs, boobies, other places.

I'd COMMAND-OPTION-SHIFT hit it!

and another...

Robot elders, execute function control shift kill

Wow, that G4 girl! Who doesn't like her BIOS?

You can bring the analogy of computing platforms to motorcycles. MAC users are like Honda or Yamaha owners. They like to get from point a to b quickly and in style.

PC users are like Harley owners. They like the to tinker with 'en to get the best performance. They may run kinda funky (potato-potato) but that's part of the attraction!

I use a mac and i personally think if playing games all the time is a proiority you should buy a console and especially now that they connect for internet play. The only advantage i see in a pc is Kazaa and i got that running on my mac via virtual pc. i also think floppies are useless and even dell now realizes this and is giving away the usb keys with systems. if you have a file smaller than a MB you should just e-mail(or im) it since even my crappy college e-mail will do that.

Everyone grows out of games eventually, not that I have any trouble finding good games for my Apple anyway.

There could be 10 million titles and it would really make no difference as there are only a few really good games worth buying anyway. Games work better on a Mac anyway, meaning a regular Mac vs. a regular PC.

Day Old Dutchie

that comparison would work if Harley's were mass produced and dirt cheap. Harley's are the cream of the crop, yes, good for tinkering, but when you buy one you don't have to go through the process of upgrading everything. When you buy a Harely you pretty much get what you are looking for and pay a little more, like Apple computers.

It's funny to hear all these anti-Mac arguments. I haven't read one thing on this page that is actually true and not just some "it's different so I don't like it" garbage. If Bill Gates shiat in your mouth you'd gobble it up.

I'm gonna shove my firewire cable in your pci slot!

Iollow:

I take it you're one of the masses who believe OS X is Unix, just like brother Steve tells you.. right? Either that or you didn't read my post. After all, you haven't read anything that is true.

Heh. "Mac can't be beat". That's true, so long as you choose to ignore the little things like price, availability, software selection, etc.

TwitchOSX


You CAN swap out CPUs. I upgraded my G3 from a 266 to a 333 by swapping CPUs and changing a jumper for the higher speed.

Here's the only bug I've seen on a Mac. The PC bugs were larger and uglier.

Window's 95 logo was created with "Freehand" on a Mac as were Intel's Flying Pentium Ads. As were Gateway and Dell's print advertising... and Window's advertising were all designed on a Mac as were INTEL's IBM office buildings in Canada. Windows Sources and Computer Shopper magazine, Basic Visual and even NEXT magazine were all done on Macs. Windows have been trying to emulate macs for quite some time now... It's amusing to see the general public bicker over which one is the "best" platoform and operating system. Endgame: You're comparing a shiny slick sports car with a boring beige Ford that nobody supplies parts for any more. (The PC is the Ford). Sure, everybody finds it cheaper to run and operate PCs but that's usually because everyone on PC has less money to space and likes to rip off software and swap it with their friends. PC's are great for simple tasking and for 3D rendering. Mac's are superior for 2D art and general use. The ONLY gripe I could have with Macs is that there is no software included that allows one to defrag their drives. You need to buy that from a third party such as Nortons. PCs are generously priced these days but I can run "Virtual PC" on a Mac should I need to. Anyone with a mac can always spend a few extra bucks to get a PC to use on the side but why bother? A PC needs to be told exactly what to do with a file and what kind of file it is... a Mac can usually figure it out all by itself. I rarely see viruses for the Macs... they are immune to all the Outlook Express versions too. Can you believe they still make Beige PCs? What's up with that? If you want a computer for everydays use or to render 3D on, buy a PC. If you want one with the same abilities but a little more ease of use and a more attractive interface and design, shell out a couple more bucks and buy a Mac. It's really no big deal... they both surf porn although due to the Gamma on a Mac, porn will always look better on a Mac.


Six Engineers and a Train (Apple Joke)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three Apple engineers and three Microsoft employees are traveling by train to a conference. At the station, the three Microsoft employees each buy tickets and watch as the three Apple engineers buy only a single ticket.

"How are three people going to travel on only one
ticket?' asks a Microsoft employee. "Watch and you'll
see," answers the Apple engineer.

They all board the train. The Microsoft employees take their respective seats but all three Apple engineers cram into a restroom and close the door behind them.

Shortly after the train has departed, the conductor
comes around collecting tickets. He knocks on the
restroom door and says, "ticket, please." The door
opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on.

The Microsoft employees saw this and agreed it was
quite a clever idea.

So after the conference, the Microsoft employees
decide to copy the Apple engineers on the return trip
and save some money (being clever with money, and
all that). When they get to the station, they buy a single
ticket for the return trip. To their astonishment, the Apple
engineers don't buy a ticket at all.

"How are you going to travel without a ticket says one perplexed Microsoft employee.

"Watch and you'll see," answers an Apple engineer.

When they board the train the three Microsoft
employees cram into a restroom and the three Apple
engineers cram into another one nearby. The train
departs. Shortly afterward, one of the Apple engineers
leaves his restroom and walks over to the restroom
where the Microsoft employees are hiding.

The Apple engineer knocks on the door, "ticket, please."

__________________________________________

What class of software is unavailable for the Mac? DTP? Video? Games? Music? Scientific apps? What can any other machine do that a Mac can't?