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(London Times)   Panic room saved artist Kurt Westergaard from Islamist assassin. That and abandoning his grandaughter in the house with an Islamic Assassin   (timesonline.co.uk) divider line 344
    More: Followup, Kurt Westergaard, Islamists, Islamic Assassin, Oahu, Kauai, Maui & Big Island, safe-houses, List of beaches in Hawaii, BBC World News, Plain English Campaign  
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18616 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jan 2010 at 7:35 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-01-03 08:38:37 PM  
Molavian: jaytkay: Molavian: jaytkay: Everyone in the US requires a fortified room to hide from intruders? Explain, please.

I'd like a fortified room to hide from tornadoes. The ability to hide from intruders is an added benefit. Plus, it would make a more secure platform to store high value items.

Good. Build it.

It's not like you often emerge from the basement anyway.

When I build my new house I'll have one put in. Of course, I can do that since I'm not a penniless hippie. Go hug a tree to soothe the burning jealousy of your betters that you've developed.


Sorry you can't afford a house yet. I have a nice one.
 
2010-01-03 08:38:47 PM  
jaytkay: keithrogan: How come we never have any photoshop Mohammed contests?

I would participate.


But by your very arguments espoused above, this would make you an asshole for intentionally inflaming the murderous assholes.
 
2010-01-03 08:38:50 PM  
jaytkay: They asshole deliberately published a cartoon he knew would inflame violent assholes.

If he was working to end slavery in Dubai, I would call him a hero.
For abolishing theocracy in Saudi Arabia, I would give him a Nobel Peace prize.
Establishing democracy in Iran - that's a Presidential Medal of Freedom

He's a troll.


Some people don't think that establishing democracy abroad is a worthwhile endeavor, and that attempts to do so will inflame violent assholes and accomplish nothing of value. Fortunately, we do not make freedom of speech conditional on the approval of violent assholes, or upon a cost-benefit analysis by some Farker as to whether the contents of the speech outweigh the potential violent asshole reaction.
 
2010-01-03 08:39:03 PM  
Maybe the kid had said something earlier about converting to Islam so Grampa thought she was expendable.
 
2010-01-03 08:39:21 PM  
evoke: We in the U.S. are privileged because our government allows us to use guns to defend ourselves.

resources0.news.com.au

I hear ya bro.
 
2010-01-03 08:39:51 PM  
Dr. Mojo PhD: some sports player (I think) was an oompa-loompa that stank like curry.

Is it wrong to laugh at that? I'm sorry you're being cyberstalked but it's a pretty funny line.
 
2010-01-03 08:40:01 PM  
blah...blah...blah...The evidence for racial differences in intelligence is overwhelming; if you believe otherwise you're basically a Creationist.

Probably true, but, trust me, the evidence will NEVER be published.
 
2010-01-03 08:40:20 PM  
atomicmask
How dare this old man living peacefully in his own home with his 5 year old grandchild survive an attack by a good right just muslim! He has again insulted islam by not leading the attacker to the bedroom in which the child slept so both the non-believer and his pig dog offspring could die in a flurry of axe blows! He insults us by surviving! It is all his fault!

You people are absolute scum. Freedom of speech dies because cowardly sheits like you blame the victim, who did nothing more then draw a cartoon, for surviving an attack by an unreasonable, fanatical, plague like foe.


I don't get it. Did you just strawman... yourself? Who are you responding to here?
 
2010-01-03 08:40:26 PM  
It's Me Bender: Arabs are less intelligent than non-arab whites.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Another out and out racist exposed. I've never shown up racists before on fark but you and the guy that loves Hitler are two in one thread! Keep going guys, you'll surely build sympathy at this rate!
 
2010-01-03 08:41:26 PM  
What spreads across the world, infects billions, and kills hundreds of thousands every year? Originally you would say a plague, now we call it islam.
 
2010-01-03 08:41:26 PM  
evoke: nijika:
Judging from the quality of the Al-Qaeda B team's work thus far... no. And to illustrate my point; the attacker did not have a gun. So just that we're clear, your argument is the terrorist did not want to bring a gun?

If he had access to a gun, he would have brought it.

/still crazy.

We don't know how well planned this whole thing was. It probably wasn't that well planned. There is a logical reason why he didn't have a gun, and it isn't because it's impossible to acquire illegal firearms in Denmark.

The choice of weapon isn't always logical, the attacker won't always choose the most efficient weapon in any given situation, which is why there's so much violence involving knifes and axes in the world.

The point is that people who are threatened like Kurt Westergaard should have the means to defend themselves against crazy people like this guy. In Denmark people in situations like this are denied the right to defend himself efficiently, and that's farked up.

What if he hadn't made it to the safe-room, or the axe wielding lunatic would've killed his granddaughter?

With a gun he could've fought back efficiently since it doesn't require anything but pulling the trigger, which anyone of any age can do.

We in the U.S. are privileged because our government allows us to use guns to defend ourselves.


Exactly. And we need to preserve that right.
 
2010-01-03 08:42:33 PM  
stuhayes2010: He knew the Islamic terrorist would not harm his granddaughter? Really? How?

Because Mohammad loved little girls.
 
2010-01-03 08:43:36 PM  
epoc_tnac: It seems strange to call them a special brand of psycho when they seem to be so farking common. Racism has always existed and the behaviour of a few very high profile muslims creates a sense of justification around it all. It only takes a few assholes to start a fight, and it only takes a couple of thousand jerks to start a race war. The fact that a race war is exactly what these people want flies over the heads of simpletons like quantum physics at a NASCAR meet.

Meh, what do you expect? It takes a level of reality disconnect and paranoia to think that one Somali psychopath speaks for 1.5 billion people, or that those 1.5 billion people all want to kill you, and just haven't gotten around to it/are biding their time.

It's unfortunate, because radical, violent Islam is a real problem. Unfortunately most of my meager efforts are concentrated on trying to talk down a bunch of westerners lunatics that want to kill all Muslims, because they're easier for me to reach than a bunch of Muslim lunatics that want to kill all westerners. They're so convinced that all of Islam is to blame that they don't accept anything else, so you can't actually try to engage Muslims on some level (hurr engage them with cruise missiles they're thinking) because the "KILL ALL MUSLIMS!" guys are providing too much of a distraction.

Too bad we can't just get all the lunatics and let them butcher each other.
 
2010-01-03 08:43:54 PM  
StampedingElephant: I kinda share the scorn that he didn't save his granddaughter, but are we not all falling for the "Internet Tough Guy" fallacy?

Probably gonna be awkward when the kid's parents read this article, tho.


When I'm 75, I'll be the equal of any axe wielding islamic assassin!
 
2010-01-03 08:44:06 PM  
mrexcess: atomicmask
How dare this old man living peacefully in his own home with his 5 year old grandchild survive an attack by a good right just muslim! He has again insulted islam by not leading the attacker to the bedroom in which the child slept so both the non-believer and his pig dog offspring could die in a flurry of axe blows! He insults us by surviving! It is all his fault!

You people are absolute scum. Freedom of speech dies because cowardly sheits like you blame the victim, who did nothing more then draw a cartoon, for surviving an attack by an unreasonable, fanatical, plague like foe.

I don't get it. Did you just strawman... yourself? Who are you responding to here?


well see I started out with the first paragraph mocking the overall tone of the thread...did you read the majority of the thread? its mainly just people calling the old man a coward for not marching bravely to his death against an axe wielding psycho. So I mocked that..

Then I expressed my disgust for it and how willing they are to allow the real criminal to slide based on the old man expressing his freedom of speech.

Does that help?
 
2010-01-03 08:44:19 PM  
Captain Darling
Some people don't think that establishing democracy abroad is a worthwhile endeavor, and that attempts to do so will inflame violent assholes and accomplish nothing of value. Fortunately, we do not make freedom of speech conditional on the approval of violent assholes, or upon a cost-benefit analysis by some Farker as to whether the contents of the speech outweigh the potential violent asshole reaction.

www.21stcenturyabe.org

/hotlincoln
 
2010-01-03 08:44:55 PM  
1stgenwhtrash: Is it wrong to laugh at that? I'm sorry you're being cyberstalked but it's a pretty funny line.

No, I agree the construct is pretty funny. It's obscenely racist, but it is funny.
 
2010-01-03 08:45:09 PM  
Yukon Callmeal: jaytkay: keithrogan: How come we never have any photoshop Mohammed contests?

I would participate.

But by your very arguments espoused above, this would make you an asshole for intentionally inflaming the murderous assholes.


Holy moly you have a sharp eye!

I have a hard time giving up any opportunity to tease religious fundamentalists. I want them to suffer the slings and arrows they want for me!
 
2010-01-03 08:45:14 PM  
MoxieLover: blah.blah.blah...enhanced police powers to go with it.

A gun is too complicated to use for these guys. Pretty much limited to axe, bomb, and large knife. It's due to the genetic lacking mentioned above.


Yeah, that explains how they pulled off 9/11. It was with the power of brute force and stupidity that they bypassed airport security and used expert precision to carry out the bloodiest attack in American history.
 
2010-01-03 08:45:50 PM  
spamdog: evoke: We in the U.S. are privileged because our government allows us to use guns to defend ourselves.



I hear ya bro.


Oh, please.

Not only is that a poor troll, it's an insult to the Soldiers and civilians who were prohibited from carrying a weapon (concealed or otherwise) because the attack happened on federal property.

I live in Killeen and enter Ft Hood on a weekly basis, you ass.
 
2010-01-03 08:48:23 PM  
He's lucky this happened in the new year.

Jon Gossalyn's title of "Douchebag Dad of the Year" is safe.
 
2010-01-03 08:49:40 PM  
Yukon Callmeal: jaytkay: keithrogan: How come we never have any photoshop Mohammed contests?

I would participate.

But by your very arguments espoused above, this would make you an asshole for intentionally inflaming the murderous assholes.


Really? That was my Weeners in this thread.
 
2010-01-03 08:50:17 PM  
epoc_tnac: So, what exactly is this Al Qaeda thing anyway? If this guy is linked to Al Qaeda, how come he didn't have a gun or a bomb or, I dunno, ANYTHING except a frickin axe?
Does anyone find it a tiny bit odd that all of these lone nutjobs are linked to Al Qaeda even when they prove to be lone nutjobs? I wonder what training camp this guy went to. The 'fail to use an axe even to kill a 5 year old girl' camp?
Jeez, Al Qaeda is really a threat, one guy set off a firecracker in his pants and another one didn't get anywhere with an axe. OMG EVERYBODY PANIC! And give us a big fat dose of airport security and enhanced police powers to go with it.


I find it odd but this is how I see it going. I think the reality is these nubags go nuts, they reach out to "Al Qaeda" via the Internet.. Wether "Al Qaeda" does or does not contact them, the link is made later by the intelligence community for convenience of propaganda.

Also it doesn't help that when the link is made public, "Al Qaeda" seems to come forward and claim them for the free PR or something. Personally I'd be sending out denials that these guys were on the team.

evoke: The choice of weapon isn't always logical, the attacker won't always choose the most efficient weapon in any given situation, which is why there's so much violence involving knifes and axes in the world.
The point is that people who are threatened like Kurt Westergaard should have the means to defend themselves against crazy people like this guy. In Denmark people in situations like this are denied the right to defend himself efficiently, and that's farked up.
What if he hadn't made it to the safe-room, or the axe wielding lunatic would've killed his granddaughter?
With a gun he could've fought back efficiently since it doesn't require anything but pulling the trigger, which anyone of any age can do.
We in the U.S. are privileged because our government allows us to use guns to defend ourselves.


It's true, he could have defended himself better with a gun, but if the gun laws in Denmark were more liberal (in the classic sense, not the slanderous misuse of the word) and the attacker had even easier access to firearms, he could have killed everyone in the house before Kurt had time to draw.

The problem with free access to firearms is it also allows bad people easier access to attack more efficiently. You can argue that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns, etc, but in this case the nutbag obviously didn't have access to the resources that would allow him to carry a gun.

My argument here is we can't hold this up as a case of gun restrictions failing.
 
2010-01-03 08:51:15 PM  
atomicmask
well see I started out with the first paragraph mocking the overall tone of the thread

See, that must have been where you lost me! Because... you didn't. Like, at all. How is this:

How dare this old man living peacefully in his own home with his 5 year old grandchild survive an attack by a good right just muslim!

...in any way at all the "overall tone" in this thread?
 
2010-01-03 08:51:36 PM  
Nemo's Brother: Kind of a coward. How do you leave your grandgirl behind?

We don't really know all the details. Let's say the granddaughter is playing quietly on the other side of the house. Kurt answers the door to find a dude with an axe. He could a: run to where his granddaughter is and lead the murderous axeman right to her or he could b: step into the fortified bathroom right to his right, lock the door and wait for the police, which ended up taking about 3 minutes. Meanwhile the nutjob is banging away at the door with no idea there is someone else in the house. I wouldn't be surprised too if the girl has received some kind of instruction on what to do just in case of an event like this.
 
2010-01-03 08:52:37 PM  
Yukon Callmeal: It's not genetics. It is a radical belief system that is taught.

Scroll up, I already covered the Islam part of it. And you're right, stupidity doesn't lead to homicidal assault -- it takes a very special kind of Islam for that.

Of course, there's a good chance that genes also control certain aspects of behavior. Maybe some groups have genes that push them towards writing angry letters to the editor, while other groups have genes that push them towards axe murder. If this turns out to be the case, I'm going to bet that Arabs and Africans tend to have more than their fair share of the latter genes. But I could be wrong on that.
 
2010-01-03 08:53:08 PM  
nijika: I find it odd but this is how I see it going. I think the reality is these nubags go nuts, they reach out to "Al Qaeda" via the Internet.. Wether "Al Qaeda" does or does not contact them, the link is made later by the intelligence community for convenience of propaganda.

Also it doesn't help that when the link is made public, "Al Qaeda" seems to come forward and claim them for the free PR or something. Personally I'd be sending out denials that these guys were on the team.


There was an incident which is either real or imagined, I can't remember which, but four terrorist organizations took credit for the same bombing.

Again, I have to disclaim that it's entirely possible I'm remembering this from a comic book or 80s cartoon.
 
2010-01-03 08:54:26 PM  
mrexcess: atomicmask
well see I started out with the first paragraph mocking the overall tone of the thread

See, that must have been where you lost me! Because... you didn't. Like, at all. How is this:

How dare this old man living peacefully in his own home with his 5 year old grandchild survive an attack by a good right just muslim!

...in any way at all the "overall tone" in this thread?


Re-read the thread. I saw at least two posts that had the general undertone of "dont draw cartoons that offend muslims and this wont happen"
 
2010-01-03 08:54:28 PM  
Seems like a lot of Farkers are confusing style for substance.

Sure, it would have looked heroic for the the guy to have faced off against the attacker, but let's be realistic: how many of you internet tough guys genuinely believe an unarmed, fat old man would actually succeed in stopping an axe-wielding psychopath? He would be killed or maimed in mere seconds, leaving his granddaughter no better off than if he hadn't intervened. Style over substance. There'd be no substantive difference for his granddaughter, other than grandpa getting an axe to the chest.

The way this ended, everyone survived and the attacker is in custody. The "cowardly" option obviously paid off, and all other scenarios are mere speculation.

Also, as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, nice to see so many people blaming the victim. Why not blame - oh, I don't know - the homicidal maniac who broke into the guy's house with the intent to carve him up?
 
2010-01-03 08:54:43 PM  
I suck at photoshop - who can do better?

i896.photobucket.com
 
2010-01-03 08:55:05 PM  
keithrogan: Really? That was my Weeners in this thread.

What is "Weeners"? Or is that a substitute from the filters?
 
2010-01-03 08:55:20 PM  
It's Me Bender: Of course, there's a good chance that genes also control certain aspects of behavior. Maybe some groups have genes that push them towards writing angry letters to the editor, while other groups have genes that push them towards axe murder. If this turns out to be the case, I'm going to bet that Arabs and Africans tend to have more than their fair share of the latter genes. But I could be wrong on that.

If any group has genes that tend to make them prone to pacifism or non-violent expressions of anger, they are preyed on and their population eradicated for the purposes of consuming their resources by a population that does possess the capacity for violence.

Your idea is pure fiction, I'm afraid. If "Western" civilization did not have the capacity for violence, we would have been wiped out centuries ago, and replaced by a society that did.
 
2010-01-03 08:55:26 PM  
Dr. Mojo PhD:

Too bad we can't just get all the lunatics and let them butcher each other.


I'm all in favour of this. I'm certain that there are enough racist idiots on any side you care to mention to have an equal fight on some deserted island. It could become a sport. It would make for great TV and would probably be less violent than rival supporters of sports teams meeting, seeing as the most passionate and stupid fans would be the first into the team.

It would make great TV and best of all, no innocent civilians would die as is the standard these days when any two sides fight against each other. Clear a 10 mile square space in Antarctica and cover it with cameras. Give both sides the same weapons, and have them fight it out, 1000 men to each team.

How about it, world? You Darwin the most stupid, for entertainments sake.
 
2010-01-03 08:57:09 PM  
stpick:OK, so you're saying there's no hope of living in peace with these inferior people? I say, we need a final solution to the Muslin problem once and for all!

Islam IS NOT A RACE!

They aren't inferior *people*. They're people with an inferior culture. That culture needs to be exterminated. That culture is incompatable with advanced, civilized societies.

I will not put up with barbarians who want to take away my freedom. Or bacon, boobies, or beer. That is what we are up against. We cannot live in peace with them. Not gonna happen. Never did happen. Ever hear of the Crusades? It's coming back, to a Europe near you. By 2020.
 
2010-01-03 08:57:10 PM  
Bravely ran Sir Robin.....
 
2010-01-03 08:57:38 PM  
jaytkay: Occam's Nailfile: What the hell is wrong with having a panic room?

How many people require a "panic room". In the US. How many people are important enough to attract "terrorists". Real numbers. How many?


Hmmm panic room is for home invasions which may include the oacasional terorrist but home invasion is home invasion and is probaby the absolute scariest thing anyone can ever go through EVEN if you're armed and prepared!!
 
2010-01-03 08:57:47 PM  
epoc_tnac: Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Another out and out racist exposed. I've never shown up racists before on fark but you and the guy that loves Hitler are two in one thread! Keep going guys, you'll surely build sympathy at this rate!

You're calling names but I don't see you disagreeing.

Also, please note that, unlike the Hitler guy, I don't advocate genocide, or indeed killing any innocent person.
 
2010-01-03 08:59:07 PM  
JonnyBGoode: BigSnatch: My guess is like this - attacker comes in the room and is between Westergaard and his granddaughter, who might not have even been in the same room at the time. Westergaard realizes that if he goes to get the child, his 75 year old ass will get killed along with the girl. Since the guy was bloodthirsty Westergaard knew he could keep the assailant occupied long enough for the police to arrive.

That was my take on it too. It's likely they weren't in the same room at the time. The assailant wanted him. As long as he could keep him occupied, the little girl was safe. That's not irresponsible, that's "next best thing."


You think maybe he was in the safe room yelling things like "Okay, now I'm drawing Mohammed being farked by a pig, it's really offensive, okay, now I'm sketching Allah as a giant bowl of rotten hummus with bacon on top, come in here and stop me!"
 
2010-01-03 08:59:44 PM  
atomicmask: I saw at least two posts that had the general undertone of "dont draw cartoons that offend muslims and this wont happen"

I think I wrote one or more. Happy to answer questions.

/ Seriously. I hate religious fundamentalists
// Also hate cartoon provocateurs
 
2010-01-03 09:00:03 PM  
jaytkay: keithrogan: Really? That was my Weeners in this thread.

What is "Weeners"? Or is that a substitute from the filters?


No freaking idea! I just said "that was my Boobies" in this thread...
 
2010-01-03 09:00:47 PM  
Blah...Blah...Blah...Ever hear of the Crusades? It's coming back, to a Europe near you. By 2020.

True 'dat man...
 
2010-01-03 09:00:47 PM  
epoc_tnac: I'm all in favour of this. I'm certain that there are enough racist idiots on any side you care to mention to have an equal fight on some deserted island. It could become a sport. It would make for great TV and would probably be less violent than rival supporters of sports teams meeting, seeing as the most passionate and stupid fans would be the first into the team.

It would make great TV and best of all, no innocent civilians would die as is the standard these days when any two sides fight against each other. Clear a 10 mile square space in Antarctica and cover it with cameras. Give both sides the same weapons, and have them fight it out, 1000 men to each team.

How about it, world? You Darwin the most stupid, for entertainments sake.


It would be awesome. The best part is, the farkers doing the dying and killing would be ecstatic. That would be like a dream come true to them. "See this white guy? He thinks Allah sucks." "Hey, see that brown guy? He thinks democracy is gay." They'd be like pigs in shiat.
 
2010-01-03 09:01:33 PM  
RockChalkH1N1: I haven't seen a headline since 2001 that had any form of the word "islam" followed by something positive after it... can we please go Hitler on these people sometime soon?

THIS.

and dont sell me any crap about its only the few, most of them are good people. Ya know what...all the ones who arent up to anything know who the ones doing the BS are, yet they dont turn them in...

Its just like any other religious or racial issue...sure most are for peace and equality...until it comes time to do something against their own. Then you see their true allegiance.
 
2010-01-03 09:01:35 PM  
Apparently you can't say Boobies. without setting off something.
 
2010-01-03 09:02:28 PM  
RockIsDead: stuhayes2010: He knew the Islamic terrorist would not harm his granddaughter? Really? How?

Because Mohammad loved little girls.


Outstanding!
 
2010-01-03 09:02:32 PM  
jaytkay: atomicmask: I saw at least two posts that had the general undertone of "dont draw cartoons that offend muslims and this wont happen"

I think I wrote one or more. Happy to answer questions.

/ Seriously. I hate religious fundamentalists
// Also hate cartoon provocateurs


No questions at all, the guy has a right to draw whatever he wants without his life being at threat. Normal people do not go all axe wielding because the latest episode of peanuts was not up to par, or was a little to preachy. Amazing how the world of islam does not follow this same thought process.
 
2010-01-03 09:03:13 PM  
evoke: We in the U.S. are privileged because our government allows us we have not yet allowed our government to completely remove our right to use guns to defend ourselves.

Fixed that for ya sparky...
 
2010-01-03 09:03:23 PM  
mark12A: stpick:OK, so you're saying there's no hope of living in peace with these inferior people? I say, we need a final solution to the Muslin problem once and for all!

Islam IS NOT A RACE!

They aren't inferior *people*. They're people with an inferior culture. That culture needs to be exterminated. That culture is incompatable with advanced, civilized societies.

I will not put up with barbarians who want to take away my freedom. Or bacon, boobies, or beer. That is what we are up against. We cannot live in peace with them. Not gonna happen. Never did happen. Ever hear of the Crusades? It's coming back, to a Europe near you. By 2020.


So when are YOU going over to the Middle East to start the Holy War? Howcome you're not over in Afghanistan getting rid of this evil culture?

Cuz you're a chickenshiat coward. And for no other reason.
 
2010-01-03 09:03:34 PM  
apparently you can't write (phonetic) eff eye are ess teee pee oh ess tee without setting off something
 
2010-01-03 09:04:31 PM  
Laertes: evoke: You don't think the terrorist could've acquired an illegal firearm if he wanted to? Gimme a break.

As persuasive an argument as "gimme a break" usually is, this time it doesn't quite go the distance. Since the guy needed a gun and didn't have one, yeah, I'm going to speculate that it wasn't easy for him to get his grimy paws on one.


He wanted to decapitate the guy. It's a non-uncommon form of execution among a particular group of religious freaks.

All those other beheadings? Journalists and so forth? Their captors had guns. They chose to cut off their victims' heads.
 
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