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(io9) Interesting If one half of conjoined twins murdered a person, would the courts have to punish both of them?   (io9.com) divider line 159
More: Interesting, Half Guilty, thought experiments, legal system, u.s. laws, Gemini, Lauren Davis, incarceration, law schools  
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21031 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2009 at 6:08 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2009-12-31 06:46:23 PM
 
2009-12-31 06:47:23 PM
And I thought I had too much time on my hands...
 
2009-12-31 06:51:20 PM
Cytokine Storm:
the only other bit I can remember is that one of the twins died, and the other was so overcome with grief he just held onto his brother and passed on as well within a day. There was no reason for the second twin to die, he was perfectly healthy, it was literally the grief that killed him.


The grief. And not the large mass of necrotic flesh sharing his blood flow. Surely it was the grief.
 
2009-12-31 06:51:28 PM
meansoylentgreen: i47.tinypic.com


Wow, some black guys will date any freak of nature as long as she's white...
 
2009-12-31 06:54:04 PM
pwhp_67: What do you do with Twin A that doesn't unfairly affect Twin B?

I would do nothing. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person be put away.
 
2009-12-31 06:54:22 PM
Seattle Rican: The grief. And not the large mass of necrotic flesh sharing his blood flow. Surely it was the grief.


Cynic...
 
2009-12-31 06:55:13 PM
pwhp_67: meansoylentgreen: i47.tinypic.com


Wow, some black guys will date any freak of nature as long as she's white...


And have a big fat ass.
 
2009-12-31 06:55:39 PM
Jon iz teh kewl: The conjoined twin would definitely be accessory to whatever crime was committed. After all, they could stop the other one at any time. Besides, both twins would've had the same mindset at the time of the crime because their brains are special like that. Guilty, pure and simple.

What if one of them palmed some poison and dropped it into someone's drink without the other knowing?
 
2009-12-31 06:56:34 PM
mmm... pancake: I would do nothing. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person be put away.


What if the guilty person is Hitler and the innocent person is a Congressman?
 
2009-12-31 06:58:37 PM
pwhp_67: What if the guilty person is Hitler and the innocent person is a Congressman?

Trick question. No such thing as an innocent Congressman.
 
2009-12-31 06:58:37 PM
geedavey: cryinoutloud: Let's ask our expert panel.....

damn she looks like she'd be fun in bed


It's two girls...one body, but two people. They keep their stuff to themselves (even though I've seen them on TV) but I bet if anything offends them, it's being called one person.

and no, they have never commented on which one has the hoo-ha, or how their sex life is going.
 
2009-12-31 06:58:59 PM
mmm... pancake: pwhp_67: What do you do with Twin A that doesn't unfairly affect Twin B?

I would do nothing. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person be put away.


What if he's a serial killer and won't stop?
 
2009-12-31 06:59:03 PM
How do they prove which one did it?
 
2009-12-31 06:59:48 PM
Put a paper bag over the guilty head and make him/her wear it at all times.
 
2009-12-31 07:01:55 PM
jimi32: PNSFW this looks like a crime (new window)

That penis must be pretty banged up, I mean, 4 hands one penis? Not a good hand to penis ratio.

/Penis.
 
2009-12-31 07:03:19 PM
pwhp_67: mmm... pancake: I would do nothing. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person be put away.


What if the guilty person is Hitler and the innocent person is a Congressman?


That's called collateral damage.
 
2009-12-31 07:03:44 PM
DrunkArse: What if he's a serial killer and won't stop?

Same answer unless there is a way to punish the guilty one without punishing the innocent one.
 
2009-12-31 07:05:31 PM
What happens when one half dies?
 
2009-12-31 07:06:46 PM
netweavr: How does one-half of a conjoined twin murder a person?


Ashley and Brittney (Google) have independent control over the respective halves of their body.
 
2009-12-31 07:07:30 PM
ununcle: jimi32: PNSFW this looks like a crime (new window)

That penis must be pretty banged up, I mean, 4 hands one penis? Not a good hand to penis ratio.

/Penis.


There can never be too many hands (NSFW)">
 
2009-12-31 07:08:12 PM
jimi32: ununcle: jimi32: PNSFW this looks like a crime (new window)

That penis must be pretty banged up, I mean, 4 hands one penis? Not a good hand to penis ratio.

/Penis.

There can never be too many hands (NSFW)">


Link (new window)">Link (new window)
NSFW
 
2009-12-31 07:08:50 PM
jimi32: jimi32: ununcle: jimi32: PNSFW this looks like a crime (new window)

That penis must be pretty banged up, I mean, 4 hands one penis? Not a good hand to penis ratio.

/Penis.

There can never be too many hands (NSFW)">

Link (new window)">Link (new window)
NSFW


oh well...
 
2009-12-31 07:12:04 PM
Ronnie and Donnie is an asshole.
 
2009-12-31 07:13:15 PM
Does this paper take this beyond the issue of conjoined twins? If not, what's the point?

Once you talk about the impossibility of punishing the guilty twin without punishing the innocent one, the next step is to talk about how punishing one person also punishes the innocent people in that person's life. Sending a murderer away to prison punishes his/her spouse, children, employer, etc.

No, those people aren't imprisoned. But imprisonment is not the punishment handed out by our courts. There's community service, for instace. Certainly depriving children of their father is a worse punishment than 40 hours of community service, and yet the children of a murder cannot be sentenced to 40 hours of community service for a crime they did not commmit, but they CAN be sentenced to the loss of their father.
 
2009-12-31 07:13:20 PM
jimi32: oh well...

Too many hands.
 
2009-12-31 07:16:25 PM
Andulamb: Does this paper take this beyond the issue of conjoined twins? If not, what's the point?

Once you talk about the impossibility of punishing the guilty twin without punishing the innocent one, the next step is to talk about how punishing one person also punishes the innocent people in that person's life. Sending a murderer away to prison punishes his/her spouse, children, employer, etc.

No, those people aren't imprisoned. But imprisonment is not the punishment handed out by our courts. There's community service, for instace. Certainly depriving children of their father is a worse punishment than 40 hours of community service, and yet the children of a murder cannot be sentenced to 40 hours of community service for a crime they did not commmit, but they CAN be sentenced to the loss of their father.


Umm, If my dad's a murderer, I'd be OK with that.
 
2009-12-31 07:17:05 PM
pwhp_67:
What if the guilty person is Hitler and the innocent person is a Congressman?

Shoot the Congressman. Put Hitler in jail.
 
2009-12-31 07:18:25 PM
Of course they would. Two Wong's don't make a right
 
2009-12-31 07:18:34 PM
ununcle: cryinoutloud: Let's ask our expert panel.....

If I did the one on the left am I automatically doing the one on the right as well?

/not orally
/both have sharp knees


Yes, because according to Wikipedia they have one set of reproductive organs:

Organ distribution

Most of Abigail's and Brittany's shared organs are located at or below the level of the navel.[2]

* 2 heads
* 2 completely separate spinal cords
* 2 vertebral columns with ribs bridging the two columns; their coccyxes merge.
* 2 arms (originally 3, but rudimentary central arm was surgically removed, leaving central shoulder blade in place)
* 1 broad ribcage, with surgery to correct scoliosis and expand the pleural cavities
* 2 breasts
* 2 highly fused sternums, traces of bridging ribs
* 4 lungs (medial lungs moderately fused, not involving Brittany's upper right lobe); three pleural cavities
* 1 diaphragm with well-coordinated involuntary breathing, slight central defect
* 2 hearts in a shared circulatory system (nutrition, respiration, medicine taken by either affects both)
* 2 stomachs
* 2 gallbladders
* 1 liver, enlarged and elongated right lobe
* Y-shaped small intestine which experiences a slightly spastic double peristalsis at the juncture
* 1 large intestine with one colon
* 2 left kidneys, 1 right kidney
* 1 bladder
* 1 set of reproductive organs
* 2 separate half-sacrums, which converge distally
* 1 slightly broad pelvis
* 2 legs
 
2009-12-31 07:19:06 PM
Chained For Life c1940 B-movie starring real conjoined twins (I think they were singers) playing sisters (duh!), one of whom kills her man. What do you do? It ended with one of those hokey B-movie authoritarian types looking at the camera and saying, "You be the judge." So this is a very old question.
 
2009-12-31 07:19:49 PM
I farking love this kind of question.

As a general rule, in western jurisprudence there are two elements to a crime: mens rea (or things of the mind) and actus reus (an illegal act). Meaning, someone has to do something illegal (the act) and have some sort of guilty mental element, such as intent or negligence (the mental part).

Conjoined twins, while sharing a body, have two seprate mental elements. While it's possible that there can be some confusion on the physical elements of the offense, the mental elements are separate.

Soumac: Can you charge a conjoined twin with conspiracy to commit a crime, or are they an accessory?

They can be either, depending on the mens rea and the type or time of physical participation of either "half" of the body.

What if one of them palmed some poison and dropped it into someone's drink without the other knowing?
Mens rea would exist for one, not the other, hence one is innocent and one is guilty.

Mayhem_2006: There are ways the conjoined twin could be innocent and even unaware of the crime, so move on to the real hard part of the question - how do you punish the guilty without punishing the innocent?

The only real issue would be in the context of depriving of liberty (ie house arrest or prison). In that instance, the innocent twin would simply be derived of their liberty unjustly. That happens often, such as when an innocent party is arrested and held before trial. It's a cost of the current system.
 
2009-12-31 07:23:57 PM
pwhp_67: meansoylentgreen: i47.tinypic.com


Wow, some black guys will date any freak of nature as long as she's white...


Whut
NSFW Link (new window)
 
2009-12-31 07:24:19 PM
gridlocksammy: Of course they would. Two Wong's don't make a right

But three rights make a left
 
2009-12-31 07:26:21 PM
Cytokine Storm: This did happen before actually, I'm trying to remember more details but am a little fuzzy. One of the brothers murdered someone, but the judge didn't convict since it would be cruel and unusual to subject the innocent twin to punishment for a crime he didn't commit.

the only other bit I can remember is that one of the twins died, and the other was so overcome with grief he just held onto his brother and passed on as well within a day. There was no reason for the second twin to die, he was perfectly healthy, it was literally the grief that killed him.

That's all I can remember. Suppose I could google...


Determined to start living a normal life as much as possible, the brothers settled on a plantation, bought slaves, and adopted the name "Bunker". On April 13, 1843, they married two sisters: Chang to Adelaide Yates and Eng to Sarah Anne Yates. Chang and his wife had 10 children; Eng and his wife had 11. In time, the wives squabbled[2] and eventually two separate households were set up just west of Mount Airy, North Carolina in the community of White Plains - the twins would alternate spending three days at each home. During the American Civil War Chang's son Christopher and Eng's son Stephen both fought for the Confederacy. Chang and Eng lost part of their property as a result of the war, and were very bitter in their denunciation of the government in consequence. After the war, they again resorted to public exhibitions, but were not very successful. They always maintained a high character for integrity and fair dealing, and were much esteemed by their neighbors.[2] The twins died on the same day on January of 1874. Chang, who had contracted pneumonia, died rather suddenly in his sleep. Eng awoke to find his brother dead, and called for his wife and children to attend to him. A doctor was summoned to perform an emergency separation, but Eng refused to be separated from his dead brother. He died three hours later.
 
2009-12-31 07:43:28 PM
gridlocksammy: Of course they would. Two Wong's don't make a right

All together now:

"But Occidents can happen!"


/actually that should be "white", not "right"
//couldn't resist though
 
2009-12-31 07:44:22 PM
Relatively simple. Daily doses of a local to keep the offending twin under for the duration of their sentence.
 
2009-12-31 07:46:45 PM
Let's end one point of discussion: at the current stage of medical technology, when one conjoined twin dies, the other will die shortly thereafter. They have a maximum of three days.

"But you could separate them!" Not likely. Again, at our current state of medical technology, if the twins could be separated, they most probably already would have been. Even if new technology exists to make the separation possible, the operation would take too long to plan, prep, and perform - the remaining twin would still expire before the separation could be achieved.

So execution is right out.
 
2009-12-31 07:46:56 PM
The better question is, can a University of San Francisco School of Law student find a job upon graduation?
 
2009-12-31 07:47:34 PM
xlbrooklyn: So execution is right out.


Says you. What if the innocent twin is fine with it?
 
2009-12-31 07:47:53 PM
Hacker_X: Relatively simple. Daily doses of a local to keep the offending twin under for the duration of their sentence.

Affects the innocent party, both chemically and in terms of quality of life.
 
2009-12-31 07:50:37 PM
I'm of two minds on this issue.
 
2009-12-31 07:52:14 PM
CigaretteSmokingMan: I'm of two minds on this issue.


I'm split too. I could go either way. It's probably a reflection on my character but I am honestly divided on this...
 
2009-12-31 07:52:18 PM
If it's wrong to want to have sex with two sets of conjoined twins at the same time I do not want to be right.
 
2009-12-31 07:54:25 PM
lobotomy for the offending one. maybe suck up a little of the amygdala as well.
 
2009-12-31 07:55:08 PM
fragMasterFlash: If it's wrong to want to have sex with two sets of conjoined twins at the same time I do not want to be right.


Two sets? A five-headed 3-some...
 
2009-12-31 07:56:02 PM
ScottHimself: I'd really like to know if they've ever given a bj before. Really.

Assume this NSFW link is shooped. But maybe not.

NSFW! (new window/NSFW)
 
2009-12-31 07:56:47 PM
fragMasterFlash: If it's wrong to want to have sex with two sets of conjoined twins at the same time I do not want to be right.

This is like that "two pair of glasses" puzzle for me. How many noses here?
 
2009-12-31 07:59:06 PM
More important question:
- If she masturbates with her other hand, do you think they should be locked up for incest?

// Can they kiss each other?
 
2009-12-31 08:00:27 PM
RadioactiveApe: The better question is, can a University of San Francisco School of Law student find a job upon graduation?

Gotta be easier than a graduate of Florida Coastal University of Law

/huh? What school is that?
//exactly
 
2009-12-31 08:01:05 PM
Prank Call of Cthulhu: Assume this NSFW link is shooped. But maybe not.


Did you look at the pixels?
 
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