Meanwhile, my daughter's on her second round of antibiotics for her ear infection.

\Amoxicillin didn't touch it
\\Here's to hoping cefdinir does the trick

dahmers love zombie: All workers are paid on days they, or their children, stay home sick. And drug makers aren't allowed to advertise, reducing patient demands for prescription drugs.

Well, that ends that. Can't be saving 10,000 lives a year if it means all that commie crap. No sir.

I don't think that "commie crap" is the stuff that would be saving 10,000 lives. As the article is keen to point out, there are many other, more important, things that they do differently from us.

My otherwise quite healthy dad got scarlet fever from a small MRSA infection. He was miserable for weeks and weeks until they found the right combination to knock it out.

Yes, I made fun of him for getting a 19th century malady. Heck, my mom is still compulsively bleaching his towels.

Seriously, unless you've got a fever and your wound is looking funny, tough it out. And put down the neosporin and antibiotic goop, you're not helping anybody, you hand-wringing ninny.

Yeah, well, have fun with VRSA, VRE, Multidrug-resistant TB- and there's even scarier bugs out there that are completely resistant to all antibiotics we've got to fight it, except maybe a couple very experimental drugs in the pipeline.

ragekage: Yeah, well, have fun with VRSA, VRE, Multidrug-resistant TB- and there's even scarier bugs out there that are completely resistant to all antibiotics we've got to fight it, except maybe a couple very experimental drugs in the pipeline.

GAHHH! Time to call the Doctor and get me some Cipro flavored mouthwash just because I'm scared now.

Another problem with antibiotic use is that they can have uncomfortable side-effects like diarrhea or yeast infections. These are obviously not as serious as drug-resistant infections, but is still something to remember about antibiotic use.

The Icelander: Meanwhile, my daughter's on her second round of antibiotics for her ear infection.

*This post is not passing judgment on your post and is simply a general statement about my personal experience w/ antibiotic use in children's ear infections. Obviously I know nothing about your daughter and am not commenting specifically on her case*

My son has had 2 ear infections and both times his doctor did not prescribe antibiotics. He explained that many doctors no longer prescribe antibiotics for most ear infections and recommend only ibuprofen (or similar) for pain control. Studies have shown that antibiotics do little to speed recovery, and it is often worthwhile to do some watchful-waiting and see if it will clear up on its own. Antibiotics can be given if the infection gets worse or lingers too long.

brainiac-dumdum: Another problem with antibiotic use is that they can have uncomfortable side-effects like diarrhea or yeast infections. These are obviously not as serious as drug-resistant infections, but is still something to remember about antibiotic use.

Amoxicillin makes me smell funny. :(

/fortunately doesn't infect easily
//last time on them was 5 years ago as a post-surgical preventative

SpaceyCat: Antibiotics have been seen as the "cure" for just about everything out there. Unfortunately, they're also the cause of several other things. Used selectively and with care, they do great things. When used too widely, they will kill us. Part of this is the patients' fault - they want to feel better and feel better NOW! So the mindset is that antibiotics will fix it. The other part is the medical field's response of: We must do SOMETHING! Sometimes the answer is to do nothing and let nature work.

With no interference, the body will normally fix itself.

My knowledge comes from a very biased sample, but I have two doctors in my close circle of friends and they both agree that antibiotics are given out way to often, even for things that they won't help. However, they both admit that its an easy way to get loud time sinks out of the office. There are a lot of people who want an antibiotic for whatever happens to be annoying them/their kids/their elderly mom at the moment. And there are a lot of doctors who would rather take 30 seconds to write a script than 10 minutes to explain to someone that sometimes minor illnesses go away all by themselves.

House of Tards: SpaceyCat: Antibiotics have been seen as the "cure" for just about everything out there. Unfortunately, they're also the cause of several other things. Used selectively and with care, they do great things. When used too widely, they will kill us. Part of this is the patients' fault - they want to feel better and feel better NOW! So the mindset is that antibiotics will fix it. The other part is the medical field's response of: We must do SOMETHING! Sometimes the answer is to do nothing and let nature work.

With no interference, the body will normally fix itself.

My knowledge comes from a very biased sample, but I have two doctors in my close circle of friends and they both agree that antibiotics are given out way to often, even for things that they won't help. However, they both admit that its an easy way to get loud time sinks out of the office. There are a lot of people who want an antibiotic for whatever happens to be annoying them/their kids/their elderly mom at the moment. And there are a lot of doctors who would rather take 30 seconds to write a script than 10 minutes to explain to someone that sometimes minor illnesses go away all by themselves.

And all of those reasons are the problem with health care, particularly in the USA.

Antibiotics ARE given out far too often. They ARE given out in cases where they won't help (e.g. any viral bug, like the cold or flu).

It IS an easy way to get out of time sinks from noisy patients/parents who demand/insist that they "get something that will help", even if it won't. And the fact that doctors would knowingly prescribe antibiotics for a patient that doesn't need them simply to get rid of them is a massive, massive problem.

There's two ways you can avoid promoting the growth/spread of MRSA -

1) If what you have is viral - like the cold or flu - don't ask for antibiotics.

2) If you are prescribed antibiotics, TAKE ALL OF THEM. Don't just take them until you feel better, take them until every last one of your pills are gone; that way it ensures (or at least does more of a job getting there) that whatever bug you have is dead before it has a chance to recover, evolve, and spread.

Sure they've got lower rates of MRSA but how about publishing if there's been an increase in preventable complications and an increase in recovery times?

As the NHS over here has shown. If you focus specifically on certain targets, care in other areas suffer. Want to beat a target of GPs seeing all their patients within 48 hours? Ban patients from booking appointments that are more than 48 hours in advance. Want to reduce A&E waiting times? Make more people recover at home instead of in a hospital bed. And so on.

soze: brainiac-dumdum: Another problem with antibiotic use is that they can have uncomfortable side-effects like diarrhea or yeast infections. These are obviously not as serious as drug-resistant infections, but is still something to remember about antibiotic use.

Amoxicillin makes me smell funny. :(

/fortunately doesn't infect easily
//last time on them was 5 years ago as a post-surgical preventative


I'm actually allergic to Amoxicilin, and have to use Penecillin instead. I've been told that's the reversal of the norm, which is that if someone is allergic to one of the two, they usually can't take the other. Then again a bunch of my other allergies are also the reversal of what's normal, so I'm not too surprised.

If I am forced to take Amoxicilin, it gives me flu symptoms. Only happened once thankfully.

Goimir: FuzzyLynx: It IS an easy way to get out of time sinks from noisy patients/parents who demand/insist that they "get something that will help", even if it won't. And the fact that doctors would knowingly prescribe antibiotics for a patient that doesn't need them simply to get rid of them is a massive, massive problem.

I think prescribing unneeded and societally deleterious medications at the patient's request is called "malpractice".

Malpractice which they can hide behind the "they wanted something and I thought this might help" veil, even though it's a thin and flimsy argument.

It certainly saves them from the trouble that would be caused by sending a kid home with the flu, telling the mom that he'll be fine in a few days, just let it run its course ... then finding out the kid didn't do so well (maybe a compromised immune system), got sicker, or even died - thus getting the doctor, the hospital, and other people sued.

God I hate people.

TheXerox: brainiac-dumdum: Another problem with antibiotic use is that they can have uncomfortable side-effects like diarrhea or yeast infections. These are obviously not as serious as drug-resistant infections, but is still something to remember about antibiotic use.

THIS.

I was prescribed Clindamycin last year for an abscessed tooth and had to take 1200mg of the stuff everyday for 10 days. Felt like I had a wild animal running around in my gut and having to time my eating so I wouldn't spend half of my work day running back and forth to the restroom was not fun.

I did question my dentist about having to take antibiotics for the infection as I know all about drug resistant infections and whatnot. Him showing me the xrays of my mouth and explaining that the infection was spreading into my hard palate and would eventually go to my brain and possibly kill me changed my mind real quick.

That, plus the fact that infection neutralizes local anesthetics, meaning that if you had a root canal or tooth extraction without the antibiotics you would have felt every minute of it. Without antibiotics the infection could have also escaped into your bloodstream during those operations and possibly attached itself to a heart valve. Also the active infection would have continued to erode your bone around the tooth, which often doesn't grow back afterward.

The brain infection thing is mainly a scare tactic, however.

/well, aside from that 12 year old boy a few years back

Goimir: FuzzyLynx:
I think prescribing unneeded and societally deleterious medications at the patient's request is called "malpractice".


Don't be silly. It's more commonly called "Profit".

FuzzyLynx: I think prescribing unneeded and societally deleterious medications at the patient's request is called "malpractice".

Malpractice which they can hide behind the "they wanted something and I thought this might help" veil, even though it's a thin and flimsy argument.

Even though every medical professional knows that (most) antibiotics do absolutely nothing to (most) viral infections? You might have a case if you claimed you were prescribing to prevent an opportunistic bacterial infection, but it depends on what your health jurisdiction says about preventative medicine, I'd guess.

I'm half way through a course of antibiotics for a staphylococcal infection in my lungs at the moment, so I'm getting a kick - well, a hack, cough, splutter and a puke - out of this thread.

Go Norway. Also go Reginald Bo-zank-way, whose name would be next to Norway in a rhyming dictionary if it included proper names.

sojourner: FuzzyLynx: I think prescribing unneeded and societally deleterious medications at the patient's request is called "malpractice".

Malpractice which they can hide behind the "they wanted something and I thought this might help" veil, even though it's a thin and flimsy argument.

Even though every medical professional knows that (most) antibiotics do absolutely nothing to (most) viral infections? You might have a case if you claimed you were prescribing to prevent an opportunistic bacterial infection, but it depends on what your health jurisdiction says about preventative medicine, I'd guess.

It's not that "most" antibiotics have no effect on "most" viral infections. They have no effect. None at all.

Antibiotics are designed specifically to treat bacterial infections. They have no effect on viral infections.

Granted, in some cases prescribing an antibiotic *might* be a good idea. About this time last year I had a bout with bronchitis, and the doctor (a pulmonologist I had been seeing for other respiratory issues) prescribed a pretty aggressive antibiotic - Levaquin - because the bronchitis went from "having no symptoms" to "coughing up brown crap and blood" overnight. In a case like that, it makes sense to treat an aggressive bug aggressively.

But if you bring in a 10-year-old kid who's generally healthy, but complaining of having the sniffles - odds are they'll get better with just a few days' rest.

How many people visit Norway?
There are plenty of super bugs to share?
As I read the story I was thinking about the Spaniards and the Aztec, the Europeans and the American Indians.
I wish them the best but I think the problem is to global to justify the sense of security the story was projecting for Norway.

Somacandra: Actually a number of years ago I called a local NPR radio show with a pediatrician as a guest. I asked him about whether anti-bacterial ointment had been shown to be a factor in bacterial resistance. He responded by saying he had stopped at the store on the way to the studio to pick some up for his kids' scrapes. At least one study seems to say its not producing resistant strains (new window).


While I suppose anti-bacterial ointments do technically qualify as an antibiotic, that's so far removed from the point of the article it's almost absurd. I mean, soap is an antibiotic at that point...

=Smidge=

My older sister reports that an office colleague who was always running around with alcohol-based hand-washing goo and surface wipes and other such stuff ended up calling in sick. While one such case isn't statistically significant, it *is* worth a giggle to other folks who don't completely sterilize their workplace every 5 seconds, and who are always popping antx-type pills "just in case".

Meh, I've had an ear infection for nearly a month now. Two weeks of amoxicillin doesn't seem to have done a thing.

FuzzyLynx: sojourner: FuzzyLynx: I think prescribing unneeded and societally deleterious medications at the patient's request is called "malpractice".

Malpractice which they can hide behind the "they wanted something and I thought this might help" veil, even though it's a thin and flimsy argument.

Even though every medical professional knows that (most) antibiotics do absolutely nothing to (most) viral infections? You might have a case if you claimed you were prescribing to prevent an opportunistic bacterial infection, but it depends on what your health jurisdiction says about preventative medicine, I'd guess.

It's not that "most" antibiotics have no effect on "most" viral infections. They have no effect. None at all.

Antibiotics are designed specifically to treat bacterial infections. They have no effect on viral infections.

Granted, in some cases prescribing an antibiotic *might* be a good idea. About this time last year I had a bout with bronchitis, and the doctor (a pulmonologist I had been seeing for other respiratory issues) prescribed a pretty aggressive antibiotic - Levaquin - because the bronchitis went from "having no symptoms" to "coughing up brown crap and blood" overnight. In a case like that, it makes sense to treat an aggressive bug aggressively.

But if you bring in a 10-year-old kid who's generally healthy, but complaining of having the sniffles - odds are they'll get better with just a few days' rest.

I was covering myself for the case of insufficient pharmacological knowledge. I don't know that ALL antibiotics are powerless against ALL viruses; there may be an exception to the rule.

What was said about the veterinarians prescribing practices. At one time when real people needed Rxs ro obtain grams of antibiotics, ranchers in that time period could walk in and by the stuff off the shelf by the pound.

I'm talking to you meat and poultry industry.

As an aside to all the organo-nauts. it has been found within the past year using natural animal fertilizer poop left them un-organic. Seems the feces carried antibiotics which then via the produce entered our food chain.

Antibiotics Absorbed By Vegetables
And co-researcher Holly Dolliver warned that antibiotic contaminated plants may be of particular concern to the organic farming industry, where manure is ..

Husband came down with sinus infection. Was told it was a virus and to wait. Went back 1 week later feeling worse (and now our 5yr old son had it.) Both got hit with some pretty heavy antibiotics.

They're doing better, but still coughing up pretty bad crud. (Esp. our son. He's still quite juicy.)

Christmas day evening I started coming down with it (green/yellow out the nose, sinus pressure and burning sensation in nose). But since our insurance hasn't kicked in yet, I took various things: emergenC, wellness formula, wild honey, rest, and a "sinus buster" tea I got form our local asian market.

Through a process of elimination I found that the tea started to make me feel better --via delayed reaction noticeable about 12hrs later. (which was good b/c I had been getting worse everyday and starting to become quite sick.)

So I drank a cup a day for 2 days. Was feeling better. Sinues felt better, green/yellow goo was becoming less. Forgot to take it one day and woke up with my sinuses beginning to fill up again (and the nasty stuff coming out of my nose increased.) Felt worse and worse during the day and my nose was burning again. Couldn't understand why, then realized "I didn't have the tea yesterday, did I? Dang..." Was rather surprised.

Took the tea that evening, burning sensation went away (stuck my nose practically in the tea and inhaled the vapors while it was steeping.) Took more the next day and once again the pressure was leaving and the goo out the nose started to disappear.

So I'm taking this tea until I'm completely well and I'm going to keep some on hand for future whatevers. Seems to work and that's good enough for me!

/Can't find a link to the product. It's just a green box with "Herbal Tea: Sinus Buster Herbal Tea" and a dumb little drawing of a guy sneezing next to a cup of tea. Ingredients: Fruit of Siberian Cocklebur, Chrysanthemum Flower, Honey Suckle Flower Bud of Biond Magnolia, Root of Dahurian Angelica.
//Maybe some of you farkers who are more learned in herbals than I can explain why/why not any of this stuff was helpful. Or if it was just a really bizarre coincidence.

Just try buying hand soap that isn't "anti-bacterial." You're stuck with Boraxo.

/Merthiolate, anyone?

soze: My otherwise quite healthy dad got scarlet fever from a small MRSA infection. He was miserable for weeks and weeks until they found the right combination to knock it out.



MRSA DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

But seriously, Scarlet Fever is a strep infection, not staph.

House of Tards: GAHHH! Time to call the Doctor and get me some Cipro flavored mouthwash just because I'm scared now.



What the Doctor with Cipro flavored mouthwash may look like.

/"Moisturize me!"

DrMcNinja: soze: My otherwise quite healthy dad got scarlet fever from a small MRSA infection. He was miserable for weeks and weeks until they found the right combination to knock it out.



MRSA DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

But seriously, Scarlet Fever is a strep infection, not staph.

Haha. Thanks for pointing that out. I was gonna, but now I don't have to.

Antibiotics do not produce new species of resistant bacteria. The resistant bacteria have always been present. When antibiotics kill off all the bacteria that are not resistant, the resistant bacteria are able to fill the niche that has been opened.

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Just try buying hand soap that isn't "anti-bacterial." You're stuck with Boraxo.

Just buy straight soap. Like ivory or somesuch. The cleansing power of soap is not chemical, it is mechanical. In fact, I find it odd to want to douse your skin in anti-biotic chemicals constantly. You just end up upsetting the natural bacteria cultures already on your skin. Which, probably (i'm not medical professional or anything) leads to a greater risk of infection.

soze: My otherwise quite healthy dad got scarlet fever from a small MRSA infection. He was miserable for weeks and weeks until they found the right combination to knock it out.

"I've got the horse right here, his name is Paul Revere, and here's a nice old man who says the weather is clear...."