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(Canada.com)   Mother sues jail for putting her precious snowflake near violent people who don't like sex offenders   (calgaryherald.com) divider line 243
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21609 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2009 at 1:37 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-12-30 02:06:39 PM
This: You aren't even trying anymore.

There's just nothing out there that has that spark anymore. ugh.
 
2009-12-30 02:07:07 PM
eraser8: Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: i am not great at geography and things such as, but this was not in a state, but in canada

You're also not great at vocabulary. The term "state" refers to "a body politic." A provincial (or even local) government can legitimately and properly be referred to as "the state."


which one is it on this list so i will know for next time

State

* Sovereign state, a sovereign political entity in international public law
* Federated state, a political entity forming part of a federal sovereign state
* State (polity), the state in sociology and political science
* Nation state, a state which coincides with a nation.
* State (law), a well-defined jurisdiction, with its own set of laws and courts
 
2009-12-30 02:07:42 PM
SchlingFocker: This is a perfectly valid lawsuit.

When the state incarcerates a person, the state has a duty to provide for their safety and well-being.

The state violated its own regulations enacted to assure prisoner safety, and this man was subsequently beaten to the point of permanent disability.

The state dropped the ball, big-time. Now, they're going to pay.


Why would the mother have standing?

/IANAL or C
 
2009-12-30 02:08:42 PM
OtherLittleGuy: /Real MericanTM

That would be funnier
if ... they didnt actually exist
 
2009-12-30 02:09:17 PM
Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: eraser8: Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: i am not great at geography and things such as, but this was not in a state, but in canada

You're also not great at vocabulary. The term "state" refers to "a body politic." A provincial (or even local) government can legitimately and properly be referred to as "the state."

which one is it on this list so i will know for next time

State

* Sovereign state, a sovereign political entity in international public law
* Federated state, a political entity forming part of a federal sovereign state
* State (polity), the state in sociology and political science
* Nation state, a state which coincides with a nation.
* State (law), a well-defined jurisdiction, with its own set of laws and courts


In this case, the last definition is probably the best: a well-defined jurisdiction, with its own set of laws and courts.
 
2009-12-30 02:09:22 PM
Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: Sovereign state, a sovereign political entity in international public law

^^
 
2009-12-30 02:09:35 PM
Another Government Employee: Hmm. No details on the "victim's" offence other than it was sexually related.

Too bad the job wasn't finished.


READ man, READ. All charges against him were dropped. He had never been convicted of anything, he was in jail awaiting trial.

"Nicholas Tanner was arrested in August 2008 on a sexual assault allegation and ordered held in custody at the provincial facility while awaiting trial. The charge has since been dropped."
 
2009-12-30 02:09:48 PM
rumpelstiltskin:
I had a hard time parsing that article, because it was written in Canadian, but I got the idea the charges were dropped because the guy had somehow become a vegetable, not because the police said, "oops, we got the wrong pervert."


I wasn't sure about that either. But either way, the guy had not been convicted of anything, and did not deserve to become braindead.
 
2009-12-30 02:10:25 PM
Not An Alt: This: You aren't even trying anymore.

There's just nothing out there that has that spark anymore. ugh.


You could try taking the line that sex offenders should be employed in prisons to terrorise other inmates. Just a thought for future threads.
 
2009-12-30 02:10:28 PM
img101.imageshack.us
 
2009-12-30 02:12:27 PM
this is how jails work. somebody does something bad, you put them in a box. after a while, you take them out of the box, right? what's the point of doing that? well, the point is that in jail, they get some sort of unspecified punishment, nobody knows what it is because we all turn our backs until the guy comes out of jail. The judge can't say "I sentence you to be raped twice a week", or any kind of specific punishment (because we don't actually know if that works either). So for each kind of crime you get some variable amount of time in the box (a totally arbitrary amount of time of course, because wtf do we know?), and whatever happens to them there is what they deserve for that crime, and then they come out.
 
2009-12-30 02:12:31 PM
Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: State

Before the "states" were united, they were states too.
America did not invent the word

(ditto on democracy, freedom, english, pizza, facism..... we just improved those)
 
2009-12-30 02:13:17 PM
Oliver Twisted: Why would the mother have standing?

The mother could certainly sue either as guardian or as next friend.
 
2009-12-30 02:14:18 PM
Slartibartfaster: Before the "states" were united, they were states too.
America did not invent the word

(ditto on democracy, freedom, english, pizza, facism..... we just improved those)


Really?
 
2009-12-30 02:14:37 PM
Oliver Twisted: SchlingFocker: This is a perfectly valid lawsuit.

When the state incarcerates a person, the state has a duty to provide for their safety and well-being.

The state violated its own regulations enacted to assure prisoner safety, and this man was subsequently beaten to the point of permanent disability.

The state dropped the ball, big-time. Now, they're going to pay.

Why would the mother have standing?

/IANAL or C


Most likely she's suing in his name, not her own. She can do that, because as next of kin, she's likely his legal proxy due to his incapacitation.
 
2009-12-30 02:15:39 PM
Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: SchlingFocker: This is a perfectly valid lawsuit.

When the state incarcerates a person, the state has a duty to provide for their safety and well-being.

The state violated its own regulations enacted to assure prisoner safety, and this man was subsequently beaten to the point of permanent disability.

The state dropped the ball, big-time. Now, they're going to pay.

i am not great at geography and things such as, but this was not in a state, but in canada

\aren't they called Providences?


Actually still right. The term "state" refers to any sovereign governing body. We just used it to also mean how we divided up our country. It was a deliberate name choice, we were no longer colonies, we were independent states that ruled themselves, we figured out later that hamstringing the federal government was a dumb idea. (It can also mean a type of governing body "police state".)
 
2009-12-30 02:15:40 PM
eraser8: Kate Gosselin's Pap Smear: i am not great at geography and things such as, but this was not in a state, but in canada

You're also not great at vocabulary. The term "state" refers to "a body politic." A provincial (or even local) government can legitimately and properly be referred to as "the state."


Maybe it really is Kate Gosselin.
 
2009-12-30 02:16:04 PM
ciocia: SchlingFocker: This is a perfectly valid lawsuit.

When the state incarcerates a person, the state has a duty to provide for their safety and well-being.

The state violated its own regulations enacted to assure prisoner safety, and this man was subsequently beaten to the point of permanent disability.

The state dropped the ball, big-time. Now, they're going to pay.

That should be, but if every prisoner who got raped or shivved in prison or jail sued, they could not print enough money to pay them off. Things like that happen so much as to be unremarkable--except that his mother filed suit.


The remarkable thing is that this sort of thing happens so often in the states that it is deemed acceptable, prison rape jokes and such. Look at Britain or Canada, this sort of thing just doesn't happen like it does here.

/Yeah, this was a story from Canada
//Prison rape isn't funny. Jokes sure, but the actuality isn't.
 
2009-12-30 02:16:19 PM
eraser8: Slartibartfaster: Before the "states" were united, they were states too.
America did not invent the word

(ditto on democracy, freedom, english, pizza, facism..... we just improved those)

Really?


it existed elsewhere before hand
it just sucked

"no cheese ? really ?, gimme some anchovies ya spick"
 
2009-12-30 02:17:30 PM
ciocia: That should be, but if every prisoner who got raped or shivved in prison or jail sued, they could not print enough money to pay them off. Things like that happen so much as to be unremarkable--except that his mother filed suit.

Perhaps the problem is that it is common. We joke about prision rape quite a lot on Fark, but watching the parade of people coming off Death Row as a result of DNA testing makes me think that we should revisit the importance of Innocent Until Proven Guilty. Because sometimes even the "proven" guilty are not.
 
2009-12-30 02:18:10 PM
Nicholas Tanner was arrested in August 2008 on a sexual assault

These threads usually have some people who claim that sexual predators can not be rehabilitated. This article proves otherwise.

a vicious jailhouse attack that left him with permanent brain damage.
 
2009-12-30 02:18:14 PM
brigid_fitch: SchlingFocker: The state dropped the ball, big-time. Now, they're going to pay.

IANAL [...]


I'm probably the first to point this out, but given the reputation around Fark (and life in general) when it comes to prison, "I Am Not A Laywer" is one of the most hilariously inappropriate acronyms ever devised. I had to look it up and everything.
 
2009-12-30 02:19:03 PM
punto: this is how jails work. somebody does something bad, you put them in a box. after a while, you take them out of the box, right? what's the point of doing that? well, the point is that in jail, they get some sort of unspecified punishment, nobody knows what it is because we all turn our backs until the guy comes out of jail. The judge can't say "I sentence you to be raped twice a week", or any kind of specific punishment (because we don't actually know if that works either). So for each kind of crime you get some variable amount of time in the box (a totally arbitrary amount of time of course, because wtf do we know?), and whatever happens to them there is what they deserve for that crime, and then they come out.

The punishment is to be locked up, and without freedom, for an amount of time determined at a trial. If you honestly believe the crap you posted, you're a sick fark.
 
2009-12-30 02:19:19 PM
ciocia: There are people who have been convicted who are not guilty of any number of crimes, so why single out sex crimes?

Because people accused of sex crimes get singled out for retribution in jails and prisons.

The idea that I can be falsely accused for a crime, jailed for a limited time until I made bail, and then exonerated is not terrifying to me. Jail doesn't sound fun by any means, but I could certainly live through being Anonymous Prisoner #3X7 or whatever until my name was cleared.

Not so with a sex offense. With assclowns like the prison authorities in the article, you are receiving something close to a death sentence without any sort of trial. That's the part that scares me, and that's why cases like this need to be treated seriously.
 
2009-12-30 02:20:24 PM
eraser8: Oliver Twisted: Why would the mother have standing?

The mother could certainly sue either as guardian or as next friend.


I of course assumed the son was of adult age no longer having a guardian. Next friend is interesting.
 
2009-12-30 02:20:33 PM
Toquinha: the most hilariously inappropriate acronyms ever devised

IANAT (proposing this for the competition)

www.granitegrok.com
 
2009-12-30 02:21:28 PM
Oliver Twisted: eraser8: Oliver Twisted: Why would the mother have standing?

The mother could certainly sue either as guardian or as next friend.

I of course assumed the son was of adult age no longer having a guardian. Next friend is interesting.


Well even if he was 50 she would become his guardian after this.
 
2009-12-30 02:21:33 PM
Sybarite: Let's be clear, this was a jail, not a prison. Huge difference. This guy hadn't been sentenced to anything. Any person here could be accused of a sex offense and run into a judge that denies them bail for any number of reasons.


Yea, jail state or federal may be the hard time but it's due to lack of recreation. You are stuck in a room with no windows. Most of the fighting is due to someone being an asshole or doing something crazy like spitting on someone.

If this guy got beat up that bad he wasn't just minding his own business.
 
2009-12-30 02:21:48 PM
Oliver Twisted: eraser8: Oliver Twisted: Why would the mother have standing?

The mother could certainly sue either as guardian or as next friend.

I of course assumed the son was of adult age no longer having a guardian. Next friend is interesting.


Well if he is brain damaged, he certainly has a guardian now. You think he's making any decisions about his health care at this point?
 
2009-12-30 02:22:42 PM
ciocia: SchlingFocker: This is a perfectly valid lawsuit.

When the state incarcerates a person, the state has a duty to provide for their safety and well-being.

The state violated its own regulations enacted to assure prisoner safety, and this man was subsequently beaten to the point of permanent disability.

The state dropped the ball, big-time. Now, they're going to pay.

That should be, but if every prisoner who got raped or shivved in prison or jail sued, they could not print enough money to pay them off. Things like that happen so much as to be unremarkable--except that his mother filed suit.



Every prisoner who gets raped or shivved in prison should sue, and they should win. I think prison should be a balance of punishment and rehabilitation.

U.S. prisons are like investments that mature into sociopaths. You put a stupid ass with poor decision-making skills in and 10 years later you get a full-blown violent criminal.
 
2009-12-30 02:23:06 PM
ciocia: people who have been convicted who are not guilty of any number of crimes, so why single out sex crimes

cuz they get beaten into brain damage some times ? more often than others

ciocia: everybody accused of a sex crime was just a 16 year old boning his 15 year old girlfriend

Your world where everyone is guilty is SO much nicer
Italians tried that one too
 
2009-12-30 02:23:15 PM
talking_tree: Another Government Employee: Hmm. No details on the "victim's" offence other than it was sexually related.

Too bad the job wasn't finished.

READ man, READ. All charges against him were dropped. He had never been convicted of anything, he was in jail awaiting trial.

"Nicholas Tanner was arrested in August 2008 on a sexual assault allegation and ordered held in custody at the provincial facility while awaiting trial. The charge has since been dropped."


It was dropped only because he was no longer comepetent to stand trial. Not for lack of evidence.
 
2009-12-30 02:24:52 PM
rumpelstiltskin: Dead-Guy:
Since the charges have been dropped, they actually had an innocent man in jail, beaten nearly to death by inmates...

I had a hard time parsing that article, because it was written in Canadian, but I got the idea the charges were dropped because the guy had somehow become a vegetable, not because the police said, "oops, we got the wrong pervert."


I agree, but he's still "Innocent until proven guilty".. so since he apparently hadn't been proven guilty, he was an innocent man.
 
2009-12-30 02:25:10 PM
ertznay: On a completely different sidenote, -17C in Manitoba!!?? That is some serious cold.

Nah, it's not as bas as you think. It's -50 that hurts.

/You dress the same as us in New York, you just need a little better boot.
 
2009-12-30 02:25:17 PM
Another Government Employee: It was dropped only because he was no longer comepetent to stand trial. Not for lack of evidence.

[citation needed]
 
2009-12-30 02:25:54 PM
CowboyNinjaD: Every prisoner who gets raped or shivved in prison should sue, and they should win. I think prison should be a balance of punishment and rehabilitation.

Some of those snitches deserve it.
 
2009-12-30 02:26:31 PM
Felix_T_Cat: ertznay: On a completely different sidenote, -17C in Manitoba!!?? That is some serious cold.

Nah, it's not as bas as you think. It's -50 that hurts.

/You dress the same as us in New York, you just need a little better boot.


Crap ...bad...
 
2009-12-30 02:28:32 PM
tweekster: Another Government Employee: It was dropped only because he was no longer comepetent to stand trial. Not for lack of evidence.

[citation needed]


ftfa

Court records also show the Crown entered a stay-of-proceedings against Tanner in August - likely due to his grave medical condition and inability to attend court.

 
2009-12-30 02:29:40 PM
LaraAmber: Oliver Twisted: eraser8: Oliver Twisted: Why would the mother have standing?

The mother could certainly sue either as guardian or as next friend.

I of course assumed the son was of adult age no longer having a guardian. Next friend is interesting.

Well if he is brain damaged, he certainly has a guardian now. You think he's making any decisions about his health care at this point?


If he is brain dead in a hospital than wouldn't the hospital be his guardian?
 
2009-12-30 02:30:15 PM
Another Government Employee: likely due to his grave medical condition and inability to attend court.

So you turned that possibility into an outright fact.
 
2009-12-30 02:30:28 PM
tweekster: Another Government Employee: It was dropped only because he was no longer comepetent to stand trial. Not for lack of evidence.

[citation needed]


FTFA:

Court records also show the Crown entered a stay-of-proceedings against Tanner in August - likely due to his grave medical condition and inability to attend court.

Speculation on the article writer's part... but it does actually appear in the article.
 
2009-12-30 02:30:52 PM
1nsanilicious: I would guess that theres a good reason most of the time that someone is suspected.

Oh, there's a reason, all right. a good reason, not always. Sometimes the reason is that the suspect committed a crime. Sometimes the reason is police incompetence, or racism, or just a matter of convenience.
 
2009-12-30 02:31:22 PM
Speaking of that.. if I have a picture of a grown womans naked body with a 12 year old's head photoshopped onto it, can I get busted?
 
2009-12-30 02:31:54 PM
tweekster: Another Government Employee: likely due to his grave medical condition and inability to attend court.

So you turned that possibility into an outright fact.


I would say the Crown does not expect improvement.
 
2009-12-30 02:32:14 PM
ciocia: Cagey B: Personally, I find it kind of scary that essentially any person at random could be accused of the myriad of offenses we consider "sex crimes" any crimes, without any proof, and end up in a similar situation.

There are people who have been convicted who are not guilty of any number of crimes, so why single out sex crimes? Oh right, because this is fark, and everybody accused of a sex crime was just a 16 year old boning his 15 year old girlfriend, or taking a pee behind a building.


Sex crimes, terrorism, and hate attacks, are pretty much three crimes in our society that people have lost all common sense about. Try entertaining the idea that someone accused of any of those things is innocent, and pretty much watch how quick you are accused of being a pervert, terrorist, or racist.

If I say I think someone accused of bankrobbing is innocent, no one accuses me of being a bank robber or of supporting bank robbery... they simply believe that it is my opinion that he is innocent. If someone is accused of being a drug dealer, and I say that I think the person is innocent, I won't be accused of being a drug dealer or of supporting the illegal drug trade. Say out loud that you believe someone accused of being a sex criminal, or terrorist, or violent racist, is innocent, and you are pretty much going to get your ass beat, investigated by the police, etc., etc.

So we are singling out sex crimes, because sex crimes are one of the three crimes where people go apeshiat and lose all forms of common sense. To be accused is to be guilty.
 
2009-12-30 02:32:46 PM
Don't wanna get your ass kicked in prison? Don't do things that land you there....

/he didn't have his trial yet tho... pre-trial should be safer than after conviction
 
2009-12-30 02:32:58 PM
I am certain that Another Government Employee is a serial child molestor.


Prove me wrong.
 
2009-12-30 02:33:05 PM
Oliver Twisted: If he is brain dead in a hospital than wouldn't the hospital be his guardian?

No. The hospital would be his caregiver, not his guardian.
 
2009-12-30 02:34:46 PM
Oliver Twisted: LaraAmber: Oliver Twisted: eraser8: Oliver Twisted: Why would the mother have standing?

The mother could certainly sue either as guardian or as next friend.

I of course assumed the son was of adult age no longer having a guardian. Next friend is interesting.

Well if he is brain damaged, he certainly has a guardian now. You think he's making any decisions about his health care at this point?

If he is brain dead in a hospital than wouldn't the hospital be his guardian?


Uh no. That would be a conflict of interest. If someone is unable to make decisions themselves, and there is no one already with the durable power of attorney for healthcare (or equivalent) then the court appoints someone. If the court can't find someone (no living relatives for example) it picks someone else, sometimes a hospital employee with special training, or maybe the person's lawyer.
 
2009-12-30 02:34:54 PM
Retarded Rabid Elk: If I say I think someone accused of bankrobbing is innocent, no one accuses me of being a bank robber or of supporting bank robbery...

I will. In fact, I will right now: you're a bank robber, aren't you? Either that or you're in league with bank robbers. Bastard.
 
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