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(USA Today)   Study: Herbal medicine is still a load of crap   (usatoday.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Alzheimer's Disease, dementia, University of Southern California, cognitive impairment, older adults, Medical associations, botanists, National Institutes of Health  
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3128 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Dec 2009 at 9:54 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



88 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2009-12-29 09:07:17 PM  
But its been used for hundreds of years.....

And it's natural, which must be better for you....

And the pharmaceutical industry controls all the data and doesn't want you to know that you can be well without them...

And....aw shiat, I forgot the rest
 
2009-12-29 09:35:00 PM  
Too lazy to link to it but insert link to Tim Minchin's beat poem "Storm" here
 
2009-12-29 09:36:56 PM  
I was going to come here and rant about the obvious tag but then I noticed that it was obvious.
nvm

I love the tards who buy homeopathic shiat and CLAIM it works for them.
HELLLLO placebo
but dont try to tell me that nothing does something
 
2009-12-29 09:57:48 PM  
Suck it, Big Herb
 
2009-12-29 10:03:11 PM  
Are you kidding me?

My water that has been soaked in the feces of elephants does wonders for my arthritis!
 
2009-12-29 10:03:20 PM  
 
2009-12-29 10:05:50 PM  
I've found it's just better to eat right (40% vegetables, 30% fruits, 10% poultry, 10% fish, 10% dairy) and exercise. Stay away from all processed foods, especially sugar and fast foods. Drink a little alcohol once in a while, just a little and of course exercise. Take a multi-vitamin 3 or 4 times a week. Did I say exercise?

/works for me.
//all things in moderation
 
2009-12-29 10:06:24 PM  
*sips his homeopathic lager*
 
2009-12-29 10:13:12 PM  

g-clef: ...and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became "medicine." The rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup & some potpourri.


We haven't tested it all. That's why there are a lot of pharmaceutical researchers that work with ethnobotanists who travel to parts of the world such as the Amazon, collecting samples of plants used by the locals to treat various diseases and sending them back for analysis in laboratories. Once the pharmaceutical companies get a hold of them though, they have a vested interest in extracting the active chemical compounds so it can be given in pill form.

I mean, researches showed that one plant doesn't treat one disease so no plant anywhere has any positive affects on any disease!!! Yeah, take that you hippies!
 
2009-12-29 10:14:07 PM  
Many modern medicines are derived from plants. Aspirin for a start.
Not all herbal remedies are useless.
 
2009-12-29 10:18:02 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: g-clef: ...and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became "medicine." The rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup & some potpourri.

We haven't tested it all. That's why there are a lot of pharmaceutical researchers that work with ethnobotanists who travel to parts of the world such as the Amazon, collecting samples of plants used by the locals to treat various diseases and sending them back for analysis in laboratories. Once the pharmaceutical companies get a hold of them though, they have a vested interest in extracting the active chemical compounds so it can be given in pill form.


and the problem with this scientific approach followed by mass distribution is what?
 
2009-12-29 10:20:36 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: We haven't tested it all. That's why there are a lot of pharmaceutical researchers that work with ethnobotanists who travel to parts of the world such as the Amazon, collecting samples of plants used by the locals to treat various diseases and sending them back for analysis in laboratories. Once the pharmaceutical companies get a hold of them though, they have a vested interest in extracting the active chemical compounds so it can be given in pill form.


www.solarnavigator.net

/hot
 
2009-12-29 10:30:49 PM  
A few weeks ago a recent chemical engineering graduate offered to help me out with my early hair loss by bringing me to some kind of Indian healer that practiced "Ayurveda", which is their equivalent to homeopathy, from what I understand. He said the guy would rub some special oil on my head and make my hair grow back. He also told me that I should stop using shampoo because it makes your hair hair fall out, and that he stopped using it a long time ago.

Riiiight. Please don't engineer any of my chemicals.

/Backs away slowly
 
2009-12-29 10:30:56 PM  
As someone who has studied herbs for 20 years I can tell you this. Gingko's only claim to improving memory ect...is that is thins the blood. That is how it suppose to work. Thinner blood means more blood to the brain therefore improving neurological function. I studied up particularly on this because of Multiple Sclerosis (I have it). This herb is suppose to improve neuro function. Which once I realized it just thins the blood I was like---FEH.
 
2009-12-29 10:34:39 PM  

ProdigalSigh:

/hot


Sean Connery lost his beard! But he grew some nice boobs.
 
2009-12-29 10:36:26 PM  

blackhawkpredator: GaryPDX: I've found it's just better to eat right (40% vegetables, 30% fruits, 10% poultry, 10% fish, 10% dairy) and exercise. Stay away from all processed foods, especially sugar and fast foods. Drink a little alcohol once in a while, just a little and of course exercise. Take a multi-vitamin 3 or 4 times a week. Did I say exercise?

/works for me.
//all things in moderation

You're not being moderate with your moderation.
Nicolas Cage's hairbird frowns upon your shenanigans.


You're right..I forgot about the carbs. Shave off 10% from the vegetables and do 10% pasta...lol

What turned me around was ditching fast foods..all fast and processed foods. No more Jack in the Crack, no more McDonalds, no more Wendys. No drive through nothing. Then I started feeling like a real person and got serious. I'm 50 years old and have a body of 30.

Soo you younger wanks just keep on eating the fast food crap..lol. Keep on eating canned and processed shiat. Keep on sucking down processed sugar. All that shiat will kill you.
 
2009-12-29 10:40:27 PM  
GaryPDX: I'm 50 years old and have a body of 30.

You left out the mind of a 10 year old...
 
2009-12-29 10:41:12 PM  
Alcohol is a natural drug, and it works.

It might not be good for you, but it works!
 
2009-12-29 10:47:24 PM  

ceejayoz: GaryPDX: I'm 50 years old and have a body of 30.

You left out the mind of a 10 year old...


You mean the snark of a 10 year old..lol.
 
2009-12-29 10:51:32 PM  

GaryPDX: I'm 50 years old and have a body of 30.


Yeah, but one of these days the cops are gonna check the trunk of your car and you're gonna fry for killing that 30-year old.
 
2009-12-29 10:55:27 PM  

MrEricSir: Alcohol is a natural drug, and it works.

It might not be good for you, but it works!


Actually, alcohol is very good for you in small portions. If you limit yourself to a couple glasses of wine, a couple beers or even a half pint of hard stuff (I like bourbon) 3 or 4 times a week, no more (very important), it's quite good for you physically. Always with a good meal too. Chase a few hours later with milk.

Oh and prune juice. This one is crucial. Prune juice is the nectar of the Gods. Every day 8 ounces in the early morning hours. It has a shiatload of potassium and keeps the bowels moving.
 
2009-12-29 11:04:10 PM  

DoctorOfLove: and the problem with this scientific approach followed by mass distribution is what?


Not a thing as long as they're able to keep the effects intact. Unfortunately for things like artificial THC they keep leaving out important factors that inhibit its performance in comparison to the original source.
 
2009-12-29 11:24:01 PM  
Murkanen:

DoctorOfLove: and the problem with this scientific approach followed by mass distribution is what?

Not a thing as long as they're able to keep the effects intact. Unfortunately for things like artificial THC they keep leaving out important factors that inhibit its performance in comparison to the original source.


Conversely, natural sources leave *in* undesirable factors. Were I on chemo I'd want something that didn't make me spacey, cause short-term memory loss and killed creativity. Then there's always the question of dosage.
 
rpm
2009-12-29 11:26:02 PM  

yogaFLAME: *sips his homeopathic lager*


Distilled water?
 
2009-12-29 11:32:11 PM  

rpm: yogaFLAME: *sips his homeopathic lager*

Distilled water?


Bud Light.

i613.photobucket.com
 
2009-12-29 11:37:58 PM  

maxheck: Conversely, natural sources leave *in* undesirable factors.


Granted, but those undesirable factors can also be one part of the equation to why the natural source works as well as it does. Using the THC example, they only use one of the elements that makes marijuana "work" because it's the part that doesn't affect cognitive ability. Ok, fine. The problem with this is that research has shown that the parts they leave out, while being responsible for the "high", are also the elements that kick start appetite and minimize/counter the negative affects of THC alone.
 
2009-12-29 11:50:23 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: As someone who has studied herbs for 20 years I can tell you this. Gingko's only claim to improving memory ect...is that is thins the blood. That is how it suppose to work. Thinner blood means more blood to the brain therefore improving neurological function. I studied up particularly on this because of Multiple Sclerosis (I have it). This herb is suppose to improve neuro function. Which once I realized it just thins the blood I was like---FEH.


Exactly. It's a blood thinner. People who say herbal medicine "does nothing" are mistaken. It does something. Herbs have uses, they're just not wonder cures that work like magic. I'm sure gingko biloba was useful hundreds of years ago in China when there were no manufactured blood thinner pills.

A lot of people take herbs without knowing the interactions it may have with meds they are already on. St. John's Wort has a mild MAOI effect and should under no circumstance be taken with any SSRI antidepressant. Gingko shouldn't be taken with aspirin or any other blood thinners.
 
2009-12-29 11:50:36 PM  
A lot of herbal supplements don't do shiat, or are bad for you. But there are a lot that do do shiat. Also, homeopathic does not equal herbal (necessarily). Eh, fark it ... just read this Link (new window)
 
2009-12-29 11:54:35 PM  
:

maxheck: Conversely, natural sources leave *in* undesirable factors.

Granted, but those undesirable factors can also be one part of the equation to why the natural source works as well as it does. Using the THC example, they only use one of the elements that makes marijuana "work" because it's the part that doesn't affect cognitive ability. Ok, fine. The problem with this is that research has shown that the parts they leave out, while being responsible for the "high", are also the elements that kick start appetite and minimize/counter the negative affects of THC alone.


I'm going to file that claim under "citation needed" for now, because there are hundreds of chemicals in marijuana including cannabinols and cannabinoids other than Delta-9 THC, and I am very sure they haven't gone through the permutations.

For all anyone knows it might be a completely different chemical than is in Marinol, and if it were found then you might have a better solution.

And again, dosage is a crapshoot with marijuana.
 
2009-12-29 11:55:23 PM  
Woops... My last post was directed at Murkanen.
 
2009-12-29 11:58:04 PM  
Herbal pills wont do a damn thing for you. Some tinctures can have very strong effects and some herbs in tea form can be helpful for minor ailments.

Herbs seem to be particularly good for tonifying and supporting the female reproductive system. Modern medicine has yet to come with anything better for PMS than dong quai. Fennel tea in a baby's milk is wonderful for colic.

Herbs don't act the same way that pharmaceuticals do. Nor should they.
 
2009-12-30 12:09:15 AM  

maxheck: Conversely, natural sources leave *in* undesirable factors. Were I on chemo I'd want something that didn't make me spacey, cause short-term memory loss and killed creativity. Then there's always the question of dosage.


Dosage isn't really a problem. You quit smoking when the pain and nausea goes away. Just like you put a glass of water down when you are no longer thirsty.

The spaciness and memory loss can happen but (for me anyways) were much more mild with pot than vicodin.

Not sure where you get the idea that pot makes you uncreative though. I always found it had the opposite effect. I can paint and draw fine without pot but I often come up with more interesting solutions if I have a bit of a buzz on.
 
2009-12-30 12:24:42 AM  
Does 5htp count as herbal? That stuff can be a life saver if I have a headache painkillers won't help, or if I need help falling asleep and can't risk taking a sleeping pill because I'll be too drowsy in the morning. I stand by 5htp as a useful pill.
 
2009-12-30 12:30:04 AM  

FunkOut: Cup_O_Jo: As someone who has studied herbs for 20 years I can tell you this. Gingko's only claim to improving memory ect...is that is thins the blood. That is how it suppose to work. Thinner blood means more blood to the brain therefore improving neurological function. I studied up particularly on this because of Multiple Sclerosis (I have it). This herb is suppose to improve neuro function. Which once I realized it just thins the blood I was like---FEH.

Exactly. It's a blood thinner. People who say herbal medicine "does nothing" are mistaken. It does something. Herbs have uses, they're just not wonder cures that work like magic. I'm sure gingko biloba was useful hundreds of years ago in China when there were no manufactured blood thinner pills.

A lot of people take herbs without knowing the interactions it may have with meds they are already on. St. John's Wort has a mild MAOI effect and should under no circumstance be taken with any SSRI antidepressant. Gingko shouldn't be taken with aspirin or any other blood thinners.


Well I mean obviously. But I was not going to go there. Ya either research what ya put in your body or suffer the consequences. I will just blame Oprah for the downfall of supplements.
 
2009-12-30 12:30:26 AM  
In the rest of the world, they drink some thick yogurt stuff with active bacteria. My European wife turned me on to this.
farm1.static.flickr.com

Her father makes his own, it is gross. I avoid it. but, Lets just say, it works.
 
2009-12-30 12:38:33 AM  

maxheck: I'm going to file that claim under "citation needed" for now, because there are hundreds of chemicals in marijuana including cannabinols and cannabinoids other than Delta-9 THC, and I am very sure they haven't gone through the permutations.


I can't properly cite where I picked up the information because it was a random program on the Science Channel and, unfortunately, I'm terrible when it comes to names or titles. I'll see if I can google it up, but so far I'm pulling up bupkis.
 
2009-12-30 12:38:55 AM  
I took St. John's Wort for a while and it worked unbelievably well at turning my poop green.
 
2009-12-30 01:07:13 AM  
Willow bark and Witch Hazel were Native American herbal remedies for hundreds of years...

Now we call them "Aspirin" and "Drug Store Astringent".

These are just two of *thousands* of herbal extractions or tinctures that work. For those of you who think that greed doesn't corrupt medical science any more than politics, you're just as blind as the 'tards who think homeopathy works.

Big business has ruined medicine, and the overuse/misuse of antibiotics has left us going back to nature to find new ways of combating superbugs.
 
2009-12-30 01:09:49 AM  
Indeed, Natural sources do leave in undesired materials.

Ever encounter a source of sparkling water in the desert with zero plant life nearby? That's because it's contaminated with arsenic.
 
2009-12-30 01:10:08 AM  
quickdraw:

Not sure where you get the idea that pot makes you uncreative though. I always found it had the opposite effect. I can paint and draw fine without pot but I often come up with more interesting solutions if I have a bit of a buzz on.

It might be a right / left brain thing. When I was in high school I used to write programs for fun (yes, I am that much of a pervert) and when I started dating a girl who smoked daily (and therefore I smoked daily) it just killed me as a developer. I'd sit down in front of my computer and not be able to come up with an idea.

YMMV, of course.
 
2009-12-30 01:13:34 AM  
I have crippling rheumatoid arthritis and I have to say, after trying dozens of pills and pain killers of all different kinds, most of the drugs offered did more harm than good. Weight gain makes the RA worse. Depression makes you hurt more.

I did find something that does help quite a biatchili peppers, eaten by the metric ton. I'm still in pain, but have a lot less inflammation, and it is hard to explain, but the chili peppers kinda leave you high. Not wasted, but happy and euphoric might be a good description. They also help break the RA fevers, which is nice because on occasion I crack over 100 degrees and start to get kinda loopy.

A lot of the next gen RA drugs are based on capsaicin, a compound in the chili peppers. I have to ask though, why not just eat the chili peppers?

I have a video of me biting into a funky red Savina pepper. Seeds and all. Just about saw God I think.
 
2009-12-30 01:16:36 AM  
Now wait one minute. I saw on the Huffington Post that "big business medicine" is a bunch of crap and this herbal medicine really works. The insurance companies just don't want the word to get out so people have to pay for expensive "medicines".
 
2009-12-30 01:18:38 AM  
An extract derived from the ginkgo tree, ginkgo biloba has been touted since the 1970s by the supplement industry and others as an aid to improving memory, cognitive impairment, dementia and Alzheimer's disease.


Darn. Where will I go for improved cognitive impairment now?
 
2009-12-30 01:18:58 AM  
Drats, I have been philter-pwned.

I have found something that does help quite a bit... And chili peppers are thy name.
 
2009-12-30 01:27:00 AM  
As someone who takes herbs, vitamins, and eats decently in lieu of medicine, I call crap on herbs being-called-crap.

When I see this sort of stupidity being perpetuated mainstream, it's annoying because all that does is make it more difficult for me to get my friends and acquaintances to try herbal remedies. They come pre-installed with resistance to the very concept, because 'they read somewhere it was just crap.'

No, herbs are not miracle cures. No, I do not consider myself above/beyond/obtusely unwilling to taking prescription medication when it's necessary (wisdom teeth out? painkillers, yes?) No, I'm not one of the nutjobs advocating the complete abandonment of pharmaceuticals.

But for general health maintenance, minor illness, and especially nipping developing sickness in the bud -- herbs and vitamins are invaluable.

There is no need to run bawwwing to the doctor for penicillin when you get a cold. Herbal remedies, teas, and decent food will do you just as much good.
 
2009-12-30 01:35:07 AM  
Murkanen:

I can't properly cite where I picked up the information because it was a random program on the Science Channel and, unfortunately, I'm terrible when it comes to names or titles. I'll see if I can google it up, but so far I'm pulling up bupkis.

I had a *really* good discussion with a very well-informed Farker here years ago, (would that I could remember who, I didn't have Farky back then) about medical pot vs. synthetics. This person had a grow op and was providing for his neighbor who was in chemo.

The conversation ranged all over, but the takeaway we both got was:

A) Marinol is not terribly effective.

B) Neither is marijuana unless someone is working with the patient to adjust dosages and mixtures (which this person was doing, with some success.)

C) *IF* it were possible to get the benefits without the side effects, that would certainly be the ideal, but...

D) The state of research into MJ is pathetic. There are so many federal hoops to jump through just to work with it that no one puts in proposals and where the US goes, so do many other countries.

To my mind a lot of medical marijuana advocates are putting money and effort into the wrong fight... Instead of fighting to get pot legalized (which, at least during the Bush era wasn't going to happen, and isn't much more likely now) they should be fighting to get more *research;* Something both more likely to happen and a better solution anyway.
 
2009-12-30 03:39:15 AM  
How the crap did they get pictures of what I see when I close my eyes?
 
2009-12-30 03:39:55 AM  
Dammit, I meant to post this in that animal fetus thread.
 
2009-12-30 04:29:34 AM  

vertigo4: In the rest of the world, they drink some thick yogurt stuff with active bacteria. My European wife turned me on to this.


Her father makes his own, it is gross. I avoid it. but, Lets just say, it works.


Kefir is amazing stuff. My mom had horrible diarrhea from chemo and kefir was the only thing that stopped it.
 
2009-12-30 04:33:21 AM  

quickdraw: Herbal pills wont do a damn thing for you. Some tinctures can have very strong effects and some herbs in tea form can be helpful for minor ailments.

Herbs seem to be particularly good for tonifying and supporting the female reproductive system. Modern medicine has yet to come with anything better for PMS than dong quai. Fennel tea in a baby's milk is wonderful for colic.

Herbs don't act the same way that pharmaceuticals do. Nor should they.


vertigo4: In the rest of the world, they drink some thick yogurt stuff with active bacteria. My European wife turned me on to this.

[probiotic]

Her father makes his own, it is gross. I avoid it. but, Lets just say, it works.


i65.photobucket.com
 
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