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(Some Guy)   Science is not a democracy: when the wisdom of crowds isn't wise   (scienceblogs.com) divider line 292
    More: Interesting, wisdom of crowds, Hailey Glassman, Cass Sunstein, Google News, scientific consensus, neurosciences, People magazine, PopEater  
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7749 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Dec 2009 at 5:14 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



292 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2009-12-29 02:50:26 PM  
From my humble experience, the main problem with crowds is that there's only one of me and a metric assload of you. If we could just correct that basic inequity, there would be far fewer problems and my life would be much easier.
 
2009-12-29 03:03:01 PM  
Pocket Ninja: From my humble experience, the main problem with crowds is that there's only one of me and a metric assload of you. If we could just correct that basic inequity, there would be far fewer problems and my life would be much easier.

Up to the clock tower with you then. I'll pass you the rifle and ammo.
 
2009-12-29 03:06:52 PM  
Anti-global warming, anti-vaccine and anti-evolution advocacy groups are already using arguments based in democratic principles: if so many people doubt global warming, or vaccine safety, they say, and if science is really based in consensus, then why won't scientists listen to the public and admit they might be wrong? The answer, we know, is that scientists have been studying these ideas for a long time, and the popular misconceptions about them do not reflect a significant divide among the subject matter experts on interpreting the data. The scientific consensus is not always right, but it's more likely to be right than a poll of People readers, and it's almost certainly what we should rely on in making public policy.

QFT
 
2009-12-29 03:06:54 PM  
4 out of 5 scientists approve of this thread
 
2009-12-29 03:09:56 PM  
I prefer the Pratchet equation.

TO get the IQ of the mob, take the square root of the dumbest person in it.
 
2009-12-29 03:10:13 PM  
Pocket Ninja: From my humble experience, the main problem with crowds is that there's only one of me and a metric assload of you. If we could just correct that basic inequity, there would be far fewer problems and my life would be much easier.

So we're supposed to have a metric assload of Pocket Ninja. *shudder*

/still, a metric assload is not substantially different from the average farker, I suppose.
 
2009-12-29 03:15:45 PM  
baka-san: TO get the IQ of the mob, take the square root of the dumbest person in it.

Or the demotivator: "None of us is as dumb as all of us."
 
2009-12-29 03:37:38 PM  
timujin: Pocket Ninja: From my humble experience, the main problem with crowds is that there's only one of me and a metric assload of you. If we could just correct that basic inequity, there would be far fewer problems and my life would be much easier.

So we're supposed to have a metric assload of Pocket Ninja. *shudder*

/still, a metric assload is not substantially different from the average farker, I suppose.


Hey, I resemble that!
 
2009-12-29 03:47:28 PM  
FTFA: People hate to hear that experts know more than nonexperts, because it smacks of elitism.

Time to get rid of this attitude. Also the 'anti-academia' movement. If you develop a culture that doesn't value intelligence, you are going to become decreasingly competitive in the world.
 
2009-12-29 04:02:35 PM  
jekxrb: Time to get rid of this attitude. Also the 'anti-academia' movement. If you develop a culture that doesn't value intelligence, you are going to become decreasingly competitive in the world.

You think your better than me? You tryin to make me look bad in front of my old lady?
 
2009-12-29 04:03:57 PM  
sigdiamond2000: jekxrb: Time to get rid of this attitude. Also the 'anti-academia' movement. If you develop a culture that doesn't value intelligence, you are going to become decreasingly competitive in the world.

You think your better than me? You tryin to make me look bad in front of my old lady?


I am better than you.... as far as my field of expertise goes. As for your old lady: she obviously has poor taste, but that's her choice.
 
2009-12-29 04:07:39 PM  
jekxrb: FTFA: People hate to hear that experts know more than nonexperts, because it smacks of elitism.

Time to get rid of this attitude. Also the 'anti-academia' movement. If you develop a culture that doesn't value intelligence, you are going to become decreasingly competitive in the world.


Why do the ones decrying elitism as a bad thing also protest 'socialism?'
 
2009-12-29 04:08:39 PM  
Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarchy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.
 
2009-12-29 04:12:55 PM  
The Shoveller: I am better than you.... as far as my field of expertise goes. As for your old lady: she obviously has poor taste, but that's her choice.

Sick burn, brah. You sure gave me what for.
 
2009-12-29 04:16:42 PM  
Is science a Republic then?
 
2009-12-29 04:18:31 PM  
OlafTheBent: Is science a Republic then?

Don't forget that Jesus always had a crowd with him.
 
2009-12-29 04:24:40 PM  
OlafTheBent: Is science a Republic then?

nah - more like a collective.
 
2009-12-29 04:31:09 PM  
Weaver95: OlafTheBent: Is science a Republic then?

nah - more like a collective.


an Autonomous Collective?

ddq5.files.wordpress.com
 
2009-12-29 04:35:29 PM  
Weaver95: OlafTheBent: Is science a Republic then?

nah - more like a collective.


Knew it was something commie.
 
2009-12-29 04:42:14 PM  
Britney Spear's Speculum: Why do the ones decrying elitism as a bad thing also protest 'socialism?'

heh

I do believe it's because those particular people are simply against anything that threatens their agenda.

bighairyguy: OlafTheBent: Is science a Republic then?

Don't forget that Jesus always had a crowd with him.


Jesus was a socialist, though.
 
2009-12-29 04:49:32 PM  
more elitist "science" from "scientists" who know "science" and stuff.
 
2009-12-29 05:11:54 PM  
Consensus blah blah peer review blah blah...phrenology.
 
2009-12-29 05:18:44 PM  
Weaver95: Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarhy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.

FTFY.
 
2009-12-29 05:19:45 PM  
sigdiamond2000: The Shoveller: I am better than you.... as far as my field of expertise goes. As for your old lady: she obviously has poor taste, but that's her choice.

Sick burn, brah. You sure gave me what for.



sounds like the smarties are insalting are intelajints. lets give em an old fashinned corn holeing!
 
Bf+
2009-12-29 05:22:48 PM  
No voting?
FAIL.
 
2009-12-29 05:25:18 PM  
Weaver95: Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarchy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.

Based on a fat american I met at a hotel once, you are a rude dickhead who thinks shouting MILK!! at an italian girl will make h er speak english.

(I acknowledge a small chance you may not be)
 
2009-12-29 05:25:22 PM  
jmaster306: /Quick! Start shooting scientists before they can adapt!

YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED

Weaver95: Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarchy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.

Ideally, it's a meritocracy. It's definitely not perfect, but the reason it appears like an oligarchy is because there aren't that many qualified scientists in each field.
 
2009-12-29 05:25:34 PM  
Weaver95: Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarchy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.

Are you trying to be ironic?
 
2009-12-29 05:26:49 PM  
I hope to see a "Space Banana Physicist" posting on Fark within a day or two.
 
2009-12-29 05:31:13 PM  
Let's step back for a moment just to describe the "wisdom of crowds" concept. Basically, it suggests that if you have a large group of people, and you ask them a question - the number of beans in a jar, for example - the average of their guesses is almost certainly more accurate than any one person's guess, and likely better than experts' guesses. (That's why the "Ask the Audience" option on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" is so popular.)

Not necessarily. If you assume a more-or-less even distribution of "wrong" guesses among the possible answers, the correct answer should still get the most votes because there will be at least a small but significant portion of the audience who actually knows it. Of course this might not work 100% of the time, but I would expect it to be successful in most cases.
 
2009-12-29 05:31:34 PM  
farm5.static.flickr.com
 
2009-12-29 05:32:16 PM  
That sure is a lot of words to convey a simple and obvious idea.
 
2009-12-29 05:32:50 PM  
PanicMan: Weaver95: Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarchy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.

Are you trying to be ironic?


No, he popped up in almost everyone of them spouting this idiocy, was smacked down, then had to go to "lunch" and never returned.
 
2009-12-29 05:41:35 PM  
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: baka-san: TO get the IQ of the mob, take the square root of the dumbest person in it.

Or the demotivator: "None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I love that demotivator, I'm having that framed when I get my own office.

/will never get my own office
 
2009-12-29 05:50:51 PM  
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: baka-san: TO get the IQ of the mob, take the square root of the dumbest person in it.

Or the demotivator: "None of us is as dumb as all of us."



Your logic explains one of lifes greatest mysteries....

Congress.
 
2009-12-29 05:55:24 PM  
OlafTheBent: Pocket Ninja: From my humble experience, the main problem with crowds is that there's only one of me and a metric assload of you. If we could just correct that basic inequity, there would be far fewer problems and my life would be much easier.

Up to the clock tower with you then. I'll pass you the rifle and ammo.


Nothing has solved more problems than a determined marine and his rifle.
 
2009-12-29 05:56:18 PM  
Skalagrim: Congress ...

... is the opposite of progress.


/Had to be said.
 
2009-12-29 05:56:30 PM  
OlafTheBent: Is science a Republic then?

More like an Ankh-Morpork styled patricianship. "One man, one vote; Havelock Vetinari is the man, and he has the vote." In science, you are entitled to vote on the laws if you are the universe. Everyone else just gets to sit around nervously trying to guess what's coming next.
 
2009-12-29 05:58:06 PM  
Pocket Ninja: From my humble experience, the main problem with crowds is that there's only one of me and a metric assload of you. If we could just correct that basic inequity, there would be far fewer problems and my life would be much easier.

Put another way, I need more money and power and less shiat from you people.


/I like your quote better
 
2009-12-29 06:03:55 PM  
PanicMan: Are you trying to be ironic?

Moronic.
 
2009-12-29 06:07:49 PM  
Weaver95: Based on those climate change emails, science is an oligarchy. it's certainly not democratic, that's for sure.

Can something be an oligarchy if anyone is allowed to join provided they work hard enough to get become an expert in the field?

/Yeah I know he's trollin'
 
2009-12-29 06:08:25 PM  
The 'wisdom' of Fark crowds believes RockIsDead is always wrong.

Reality runs opposite.

HAHAHAH!!

Groupthink assholes!
 
2009-12-29 06:09:56 PM  
RockIsDead: The 'wisdom' of Fark crowds believes RockIsDead is always wrong.

Reality runs opposite.

HAHAHAH!!

Groupthink assholes!


Troll troll is troll
 
2009-12-29 06:13:03 PM  
RockIsDead:

The 'wisdom' of Fark crowds believes RockIsDead is always wrong.

Reality runs opposite.

HAHAHAH!!

Groupthink assholes!


i45.tinypic.com

RID is such a polite and well thought out fellow, too.
 
2009-12-29 06:15:46 PM  
Look, I understand you think that evolution and global climate change are meaningless and unroven simply because they are theories. Great...that's fine with me as long as you stop believing in the theory of gravity and get the fark off my planet.
 
2009-12-29 06:20:07 PM  
Something which you all seem to miss (to include the author of the article) is the inverse also applies to said situation.

By being a non-expert in let's say, global warming, the author herself is guilty of what she accuses the public guilty of: forming mass opinions on subjects which the public is not well educated in.

In respect to global warming specifically, the public consensus is that it is a real phenonenon...but the public (to include bloggers) are unqualified to make these assertions (on either side of the argument) because the public isn't composed of experts in said fields.

She's crushed her own soapbox, but the majority those who RTFA probably lack the mental clarify to see this ultimate irony.

/Global Warming is the new religion.
//Still mostly agree with the author's point.
 
2009-12-29 06:25:57 PM  
RockIsDead: The 'wisdom' of Fark crowds believes RockIsDead is always wrong.

Reality runs opposite.

HAHAHAH!!

Groupthink assholes!


Fark's Groupthink is a stopped clock.

"Bacon is delicious" is one of the two times a day it's right.

"RockIsDead is an idiot" is the other.
 
2009-12-29 06:26:08 PM  
What do you expect from a society that believes chiropractors are something more than glorified masseurs and homeopathy works?

As trite as it sounds, get more movies and TV shows where the scientist is not a goofy sidekick(as in Better Off Ted) or crazy madman(Fringe).
 
2009-12-29 06:26:42 PM  
utahraptor2:
/Global Warming is the new religion.
//Still mostly agree with the author's point.


So what you are saying is.. and this is funny so listen along.. that its true that public opinion poll based science should be subsumed to qualified evidence gathering; unless you personally are the public who disagrees with the overwhelming qualified scientific consensus, in which case your opinion magically becomes science?

Right?
 
2009-12-29 06:28:32 PM  
I think this guy is right, but only if you all think so too.

/groupthink of any flavor makes me shudder.
 
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