In fairness, they do have a point. It's almost kindof silly they have to make a rule for that, though..

I'll second the "DUH"... you don't get a tight seal with facial hair.

It's only silly if you laugh at dead firefighters.

Smoke inhalation kills more people than the actual fires do.

/retired firefighter

A little facial hair, you could let them have maybe?

-or-

oh come on , they're jewish. they'd complain about the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.


//there are other jewish stereotypes to make fun of, but they're just not that funny.

ITT: People spouting their anti-facial hair agenda

PC LOAD LETTER: gopher321: Adman12: Do you know who else had to trim his facial hair to fit inside a mask?

Yeah, him.

Santa?

Muhammad?

Gandalf?

Hannibal Lecter?

Bea Arthur?

Airline pilots also aren't allowed beards or full sideburns for our oxygen masks.

That dude needs to get over it and realize there are job requirements that don't give a crap about your religious facial hair requirements.

AuntofDogface

you don't get a tight seal with facial hair.


You don't win friends with salad.


Sorry - it just popped into my head.

gopher321: Gandalf?

Nice. :)

PC LOAD LETTER: gopher321: Adman12: Do you know who else had to trim his facial hair to fit inside a mask?

Yeah, him.

Santa?

Muhammad?

Gandalf?

Hannibal Lecter?

Garrett Morgan?

give me doughnuts: U.S. Army personnel aren't allowed beards or full sideburns for the same reason: you can't seal a gas-mask around them.

Unless you are special forces, but then you are immune to bio/chem attacks as well as bullets, so I guess it makes sense.

Speaking as a local... it's Pikesville. More Jews than Jerusalem. I don't mean that to be rude. It's a very nice place with nice people, but I thought they would have had a rule for this sort of stuff by now.

Let 'em have the beards but if they die the city cannot be held liable or they get injured they have to pay for their medical bills out of pocket.

Chuck Norris also

He don't need no breathing mask.

You know what a gopher is, son?

Yea, gofer this, gofer that. Or a small rodent

Well, around here they're on the same level. You're only getting this job because you're Uncle Bob is a damned good man. And one more thing: Regulations say if you wear any type of respirator mask that beard has got to go.

This isn't a religious or ethnic debate, it is centered on physical safety and well-documented requirements for it.

It's not like the department is saying that you are required to eat a ham sandwich while on duty.


/mmm... ham.

The only Jews I know of who have a firm rule against shaving are Chabad/Lubavitch (and they NEVER do, from birth to death). Otherwise, the accepted rule is that you leave sideburns down to the cheekbone.

As FishyFred hinted at (and this is from the Talmud, tractate Sanhedrin), there are only three rules that can't be broken in the event of a threat to life or limb - idolatry (e.g. a forced conversion), sexual immorality and murder. Though that part of the Talmud goes on to say that in a time of religious persecution (like during the Roman rule of Judaea), no law may be violated to satisfy that oppressive goal.

// reasonably certain this doesn't qualify as a time of religious persecution, regardless of what fundie Christians say
// Merry Christmas

This ban applies ONLY to Orthodox Jewish folk? That would be odd.

Its not just a fire department rule, It is an OSHA rule and an NFPA standard for fire fighter safety.

Britney Spear's Speculum: Let 'em have the beards but if they die the city cannot be held liable or they get injured they have to pay for their medical bills out of pocket.

If I'm working for a fire department and one of my fellow firefighters gets in trouble because his full beard prevents his SCBA from properly sealing to his face, do you expect me to go in and risk my neck to save him?

What's next? orthodox Jews refusing to roll on Shabbos?

Sinto: Do you know who else had to trim his facial hair to fit inside a mask?

Yeah, him.

Santa?

Muhammad?

Gandalf?

Hannibal Lecter?

Garrett Morgan?

Dennis Hopper in "Blue Velvet?"


GERARD DEPARDIEUASDASQWASDQA?

No wai, because everyone knows all Jews are bankers

which is silly?

the fact that the fire department doesn't want to bury firemen for something easily avoidable, or the fact that otherwise rational human beings think God gives a fark if they have a beard?

cause, i'm thinkin' it's B.

There was/is pending litigation in Washington D.C. against the FD by firefighters who were able to demonstrate that they're able to get a good seal despite having facial hair. It's not a chance I'd want to take, though.

/FF
//HATES shaving

mediablitz: Tr0mBoNe: Tell them they can keep full beards. Problem solved eventually.

Followed by the lawsuit from the grieving family blaming the fire department for letting them work with full beards.

...and THAT is the problem here: these guys want to have the cake, eat it, and then complain about the cake AFTER eating it.

Oy vey!

Job as firefighter-no beard allowed=makes sense.
Job at Disney-no facial hair allowed=not so much.

It's only silly if you laugh at dead Jews.

Zyklon-B inhalation kills more Jews than the actual fires do.

/retired Jew

forkandspoon2008: Sinto: Do you know who else had to trim his facial hair to fit inside a mask?

Yeah, him.

Santa?

Muhammad?

Gandalf?

Hannibal Lecter?

Garrett Morgan?

Dennis Hopper in "Blue Velvet?"


GERARD DEPARDIEUASDASQWASDQA?

???

AnubisMan: give me doughnuts: U.S. Army personnel aren't allowed beards or full sideburns for the same reason: you can't seal a gas-mask around them.

Unless you are special forces, but then you are immune to bio/chem attacks as well as bullets, so I guess it makes sense.

No, you are operating in areas where NBC attack is less likely so preparing for it is less important than it is to blend with the population more than the average soldier or Marine.

Okay, after reading the article,

I am more sympathetic to their claims. They are experienced paramedics who have been with the service for years.

After they joined a new nearby ambulance service, their old ones says "We are going to buy SCBAs for our ambulances, since you have a beard, you won't be able to use them, so you can't ride the ambulance anymore".

No SCBAs have been put on the ambulance yet. They were banned from calls in anticipation of something that may never happen.

The ambulances in my area don't have SCBAs. I am curious what the real motivation for this is.

radioman_: It's only silly if you laugh at dead Jews.

Zyklon-B inhalation kills more Jews than the actual fires do.

/retired Jew

Britney Spear's Speculum: Let 'em have the beards but if they die the city cannot be held liable or they get injured they have to pay for their medical bills out of pocket.

Firemen work in teams. One of the team cannot be doing their own thing without it affecting the safety of the rest of the team.

On the other hand, there are a lot of duties on a fire department that don't require wearing a mask. If they are only going to drive the vehicles or work in the rehabilitation area it's not an issue.

/volunteer fireman

wage0048: Britney Spear's Speculum: Let 'em have the beards but if they die the city cannot be held liable or they get injured they have to pay for their medical bills out of pocket.

If I'm working for a fire department and one of my fellow firefighters gets in trouble because his full beard prevents his SCBA from properly sealing to his face, do you expect me to go in and risk my neck to save him?

What's next? orthodox Jews refusing to roll on Shabbos?

Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax...

If they were firefighters, I could see how breathing masks would be critical. But they're not firefighters. They're medics. However, even if they were firefighters, the situation is bullshiat. It's possible (not easy or comfortable but possible) to get a full seal with a beard.

What if there is a fire on the Sabbath? Would they be able to respond? If not, doesn't that put people/property at risk? And wouldn't the jew gold they keep hidden in a bag around their neck weigh them down a little making it hard to climb ladders and stuff?