TappingTheVein: you deducted

Make that deduced. Hey you can spend the entire thread now over my spelling mistake so you can continue to ignore the facts which you obviously don't like.

TappingTheVein: Talking about pulling from asses, i see you deducted that the army is involved too. Please go on.

You're talking to willfully ignorant people. This whole misleading headline story is WAY too juicy for people like Farker T and Apik0r0s to give up easily. Fortunately the facts of the matter are obvious for any reasonable person to see. Key word is 'reasonable'.

C'mom, people.
Have a heart.

The bodies belonged to people who died from various causes, including diseases, accidents and Israeli-Palestinian violence, but there has been no evidence to back up the claim in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet that Israeli soldiers killed Palestinians for their organs. Angry Israeli officials called the report "anti-Semitic."

Ah, the ol' go-to "argument".

Elvis Christ: You're talking to willfully ignorant people. This whole misleading headline story is WAY too juicy for people like Farker T and Apik0r0s to give up easily. Fortunately the facts of the matter are obvious for any reasonable person to see. Key word is 'reasonable'.

Farker T is a known liar of some measure. He's quite baldfaced. He will literally go into a thread, see something he said, and then claim he never said it. Quite shameless about it.

Yea thats pretty damning. Wow.

Although, it still doesn't change the fact the Palestinians are blood thirsty barbarians.

I thought Jews were all about racial purity, can they really use Palestinian organs?

randomjsa: Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

I'm sure this is lost on you, but uncivilized behavior does not give you carte blanche to violate civil rights.

A man brutally beats, rapes, and kills his wife. That doesn't give the police the right to kill, assault or molest the man once he's in custody.

The Japanese did horrible things to Allied forces in World War II - experiments, beheadings, torture, slave labor; that did not make it open season on Japanese POWs and we did not pursue revenge for atrocities after they surrendered.

Likewise, the actions of a portion of the Palestinian population, brutal, dishonorable, and cruel as they might be, do not justify an Israeli disregard of basic civil rights.

Civilized nations act according to the rule of law and along lines of basic human decency. When individual agents of those nations violate the human rights of others, even if they do so out of a sense of "patriotism," such violations should be punished by those nations themselves. I'm not sure that the State of Israel is a civilized nation - at times it seems to act more like a band of fascist thugs.

Quadruplator: I thought Jews were all about racial purity, can they really use Palestinian organs?

...fail.

indylaw: randomjsa: Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

I'm sure this is lost on you, but uncivilized behavior does not give you carte blanche to violate civil rights.

A man brutally beats, rapes, and kills his wife. That doesn't give the police the right to kill, assault or molest the man once he's in custody.

The Japanese did horrible things to Allied forces in World War II - experiments, beheadings, torture, slave labor; that did not make it open season on Japanese POWs and we did not pursue revenge for atrocities after they surrendered.

Likewise, the actions of a portion of the Palestinian population, brutal, dishonorable, and cruel as they might be, do not justify an Israeli disregard of basic civil rights.


It's downright intellectually dishonest to make that judgment when you're equalizing the use of corpses(that still get returned to their family) to the treatment of POWs or a civilian population.

For those of you who don't get it:


China has been using executed prisoners for organ donation for many years. The prisoners were idetified as donors while they were still alive. That's different from taking corneas from people who were killed, either soldiers or militants.

The former is an awful and grave violation of human rights, but the latter is an offense against the wishes of the dead person and his/her family. There's no comparison! You can call it a human rights issue but it's minor compared to what China has done.

beoswulf: indylaw: randomjsa:
See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.
--------
First...there was never any photos of Pali's dancing in the streets after 9/11...that was stock footage...look it up.

Just yet another reason why Israel may be the most hated country on the face of the earth..the rest of the world sees it....Ammmmuuuurica not so much.

Animatronik: For those of you who don't get it:


China has been using executed prisoners for organ donation for many years. The prisoners were idetified as donors while they were still alive. That's different from taking corneas from people who were killed, either soldiers or militants.

The former is an awful and grave violation of human rights, but the latter is an offense against the wishes of the dead person and his/her family. There's no comparison! You can call it a human rights issue but it's minor compared to what China has done.
-----------

We're not talking China...you bait and switch biatch

VerbalKentt: Animatronik: For those of you who don't get it:


China has been using executed prisoners for organ donation for many years. The prisoners were idetified as donors while they were still alive. That's different from taking corneas from people who were killed, either soldiers or militants.

The former is an awful and grave violation of human rights, but the latter is an offense against the wishes of the dead person and his/her family. There's no comparison! You can call it a human rights issue but it's minor compared to what China has done.
-----------

We're not talking China...you bait and switch biatch

No, it makes perfect sense. I use China as a defense for all of the trouble that I get myself in to.

"Mr. Conspiracy, you were going 90 in a 55!"

"China has very lax traffic laws."

VerbalKentt: beoswulf: indylaw: randomjsa:
See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.
--------
First...there was never any photos of Pali's dancing in the streets after 9/11...that was stock footage...look it up.


No, CNN did not air decade-old footage of Palestinians dancing in the streets. Eason Jordan, CNN's Chief News Executive, confirmed that the video used on CNN was in fact shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001, in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew, not during the Persian Gulf conflict of 1990-91 - a fact proved by its inclusion of comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden (whose name was unlikely to have come up ten years earlier in connection with the invasion and liberation of Kuwait) as well as the appearance in the video of post-1991 automobiles. The person who made the claim quoted above has since recanted.
[...]


Certainly CNN wasn't the only news organization to report on the reaction of some Palestinians to the events of September 11, as other outlets such as Reuters and the Los Angeles Times carried the same story. Also, other news outlets such as Fox and The Jerusalem Post reported that journalists were threatened for capturing images of Palestinian celebrations, making real footage of the event harder to obtain:
Palestinian Authority actions to confiscate film footage of Palestinians celebrating the terror attacks on the US were logical to prevent the media from painting the wrong picture of Palestinian sentiment, Bassam Abu Sharif, an adviser to PA Chairman Yasser Arafat.

"This was a normal preventive act . . . we don't want to give more to the Zionist propaganda which portrays all Palestinians as terrorists," he said. "The idea is that these people were not allowed to film, because a small group of people on film would represent the Palestinian people as a whole."
The footage was real. It's a shame, in fact, that its provenance was doubted because the lives of journalists who have attempted to capture similar acts on video have been threatened. That this tape made it out at all is a miracle. But CNN's reputation was besmirched by a single person, a Brazilian student who reported (without verification) that the footage in question actually came from a 1991 report


http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp (new window)

There was lots of footage taken of the Arabs celebrating 9/11, they just threatened and assaulted any Western photographer taking evidence that could be used make them look like Arabs celebrating 9/11..

In related news :

Israel to seek another 1b euros Holocaust in reparations from Germany

Link (new window)

at80eighty: loki see loki do: I think a first strike or large scale terrorist strike (nuke) might be what Israel would use to justify The End, suck in Afghanistan and India to light their burners, and you have the whole middle East to the subcontinent All Nuked Up.



there is absolutely no way that India (with either their past or present foreign policy) would enter such a flareup - unless you mean because of Pakistan joining in the fray because of state supported Islamic jihad motivations - in which case the target is still Israel

You'd probably see the US intervene before India

I actually did mean that Pakistan would prolly lob a few over to India as long as shiat was rolling, bringing India into the fun.

But that was last night, and I was drunk.

beoswulf: indylaw: randomjsa: Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

I'm sure this is lost on you, but uncivilized behavior does not give you carte blanche to violate civil rights.

A man brutally beats, rapes, and kills his wife. That doesn't give the police the right to kill, assault or molest the man once he's in custody.

The Japanese did horrible things to Allied forces in World War II - experiments, beheadings, torture, slave labor; that did not make it open season on Japanese POWs and we did not pursue revenge for atrocities after they surrendered.

Likewise, the actions of a portion of the Palestinian population, brutal, dishonorable, and cruel as they might be, do not justify an Israeli disregard of basic civil rights.


It's downright intellectually dishonest to make that judgment when you're equalizing the use of corpses(that still get returned to their family) to the treatment of POWs or a civilian population.

Downright intellectually dishonest? So civilized people go through the bodies of non-consenting people to scrounge for spare parts? Do you think that's allowed under international law? Really?

I was responding to the farkstick before who was saying, essentially, that anything done to the Palestinians against their rights or their dignity is justified because (among other things) some of them celebrated 9/11. In that context, the comparison is absolutely valid.

The difference is at most one of degree, not character.

Broz_Tito: In related news :

Israel to seek another 1b euros Holocaust in reparations from Germany

Link (new window)

I recant what I said then....thanks for the info.

I still don't give a shiat...can you blame them...Israel drops a bomb on their homes and the shrapnel says "Made in the USA"

GAT_00 [TotalFark] Quote 2009-12-20 07:46:16 PM
Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Yeah, because the appropriate reaction is to not give a shiat to human rights abuses. Of course, it is you.

Human rights?

These people were already dead. To use "human rights" in this context is intellectual dishonesty and lame equiviocation. What was done was wrong, but using "human rights" in this context paints all else you have to say on the topic unworthy of consideration.

Did they also have the right to medical treatment (though dead), to vote (though dead) and to live life to their fullest potential (though dead). For fun, lets list all the basic human rights we normally ascribe to the living but are not applicable to the DEAD!

Weaver95: digitalrain:
The key is knowing what to get worked up about and knowing when
to make like Francis and just lighten up.

yeah, except that we have an entire industry that manufactures outrage on demand. name the issue, they'll quote you a price and stir up whatever level of excitement you require. kind of makes it hard to get worked up over injustice once you've peeked behind the curtain.

I slightly disagree. From your statement, I might more easily draw the conclusion that it makes it hard to get outraged about tea-bagging or H1N1 vaccines if you look behind the curtain. Genuine issues should still raise your dander, though.


/Was a little surprised by the, "Meh".
//not to harp on it...
///also cynical

Have I not reason to lament
What man has made of man?

This just reinforces the idea that the Zionist State believes it has the justification to do whatever the hell it wants. Nazism infected their collective subconscious and they have become that which the claim to stand against. Sad and disgusting. Reality is anti-semetic! The world should have stood up in the 30's and 40's when this happened in Europe and it should do the same thing today. Whatever grace was bestowed on the Jews after the horror of the holocaust has been trampled and defiled by their heirs who bring shame and dishonor to everyone who suffered and perished at the hands of Nazi madmen.

//Of course the very act of having an opinion that doesn't rabidly support Israel doing whatever the frak it wants makes me an Anti-Semite

///Oh Well

TappingTheVein: Talking about pulling from asses, i see you deducted that the army is involved too. Please go on.

???

FTA: Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.
...
Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, [emphasis added]Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Looks like the military had something to do with it. This is pretty horrific. Beyond the Jewish strictures about getting buried with all of your bits, you'd think Israel might be a bit more picky about the treatment of the dead. You know, Holocaust and all.

I can't see the article when I click to go to the Guardian... sounds like a hoax to me.

mrsirjojo: Did they also have the right to medical treatment (though dead), to vote (though dead) and to live life to their fullest potential (though dead). For fun, lets list all the basic human rights we normally ascribe to the living but are not applicable to the DEAD!

I think the right to not be molested and chopped up for spare parts continues post-mortem. If all your rights ended at death, grave-robbing would be acceptable.

I'm not arguing you said it was okay (you did say it was wrong). But listing rights that end with death doesn't negate the ones that continue.

palelizard: Looks like the military had something to do with it.

No, it didn't. The bodies of soldiers reached the same facility and they were treated the same as anyone else.

This was the result of actions taken by the doctor mentioned in the article, not the military.

And now we get to watch Dr.Mengele's ghost falling over from an irony induced fit of uncontrollable laughter.

TappingTheVein: No, it didn't. The bodies of soldiers reached the same facility and they were treated the same as anyone else.

This was the result of actions taken by the doctor mentioned in the article, not the military.

Again...
FTA: Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.

I'm just reading the article. Between the MP's statement and the military being the ones to confirm the report, I think there is likely some involvement.

The only info I have is coming from the article. If the MP is incorrect/lying (politicians have been known to do so), then I'm wrong.

Half of thread is retarded and did not read TFA.

Some policy was in place which meant almost all available organs were transplanted with or without consent from Israeli jews and arabs, along with palestinians who were also being treated the same way.


Antisemitic emphasis for the win

Dr. Mojo PhD: Elvis Christ: You're talking to willfully ignorant people. This whole misleading headline story is WAY too juicy for people like Farker T and Apik0r0s to give up easily. Fortunately the facts of the matter are obvious for any reasonable person to see. Key word is 'reasonable'.

Farker T is a known liar of some measure. He's quite baldfaced. He will literally go into a thread, see something he said, and then claim he never said it. Quite shameless about it.

And Mojo is an admitted wife beater. (new window)

LavenderWolf: Some policy was in place which meant almost all available organs were transplanted with or without consent from Israeli jews and arabs, along with palestinians who were also being treated the same way.


Antisemitic emphasis for the win

There's no doubt that the people here are anti-semetic, but even though they were stealing parts from Jews and Arabs alike doesn't make it any less wrong.

It's just a dick move.

palelizard: I'm just reading the article.

You don't know who Ahmed Tibi is. He's basically the definition of a 5th column. He used to be Arafat's adviser and best pal in the good ol' days. He'll say/do anything if it can hurt Israel in some way.

Lol at the obtuse bot.

gorgor: Mouser: Anyone care to explain how you can violate the "human rights" of a corpse?

APPROVES
http://tinyurl.com/ydeho3a
(copy and paste, NSFW)

I am SO not going to click on that link, man...

memebot_of_doom: "Meh" generally connotes indifference and boredom. For example, unless you're a complete sociopath, you wouldn't say 'meh' upon seeing someone fall from a window, even though you couldn't do anything to about it.

What are you if you laugh hysterically and take pictures? I think you don't actually know what that word means.

beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead.

Not the point. You do not take anything from my body without my express permission, or my family's permission. Your body is the only thing you truly own in this life, and it is yours to do with what you wish. No one has permission to make that choice for you. This doctor violated that tenet by doing what he did, and should not only have been fired, but jailed.

Has anyone said "Meh" yet?

Organ harvesting from the dead to save the living? OK in my books!

TappingTheVein: palelizard: I'm just reading the article.

You don't know who Ahmed Tibi is. He's basically the definition of a 5th column. He used to be Arafat's adviser and best pal in the good ol' days. He'll say/do anything if it can hurt Israel in some way.

Hmmm. Okay, I'll reserve judgment on the military involvement then, since the source is suspect. The doc/facility is still a horror show. I'm all for donating organs (they can have mine when I'm done with them), but stealing them from the recently dead isn't the way to go about driving up 'donations'.

rewind2846: beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead.

Not the point. You do not take anything from my body without my express permission, or my family's permission. Your body is the only thing you truly own in this life, and it is yours to do with what you wish. No one has permission to make that choice for you. This doctor violated that tenet by doing what he did, and should not only have been fired, but jailed.

Exactly. NO. NOT YOURS. "You aren't using it anymore and I think somebody else should have it" isn't sufficient justification for theft.

vygramul: One generally can't harvest from someone who's been dead for half the day, but the person does have to be dead before you can harvest the organ. And isn't a dead person a corpse? The person flat-lines before they do it, no?

There is a difference between taking a bone from a severed leg and the liver from a brain-dead guy hooked to life-support.

Organs do not last very long on a corpse. Certain tissues do.

palelizard: Hmmm. Okay, I'll reserve judgment on the military involvement then, since the source is suspect. The doc/facility is still a horror show. I'm all for donating organs (they can have mine when I'm done with them), but stealing them from the recently dead isn't the way to go about driving up 'donations'.

The presumed consent laws like in Spain and Belgium should be implemented.

TheShavingofOccam123: programpogram

FTFY ;)

Fark is really slipping.

vygramul: I just want some clarification: do they take the liver from someone who came in from an auto accident whose heart is still beating?

How does this apply to harvesting tissue from body parts ? or are you just debating the meaning of the term 'a corpse' ?

palelizard: Hmmm. Okay, I'll reserve judgment on the military involvement then, since the source is suspect. The doc/facility is still a horror show. I'm all for donating organs (they can have mine when I'm done with them), but stealing them from the recently dead isn't the way to go about driving up 'donations'.


FTFA:

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

That is the article's author, Ian Black, not Tibi. It's a little ambiguous, but if the military is making such confirmations, it would seem they are somehow involved.

TappingTheVein: The presumed consent laws like in Spain and Belgium should be implemented.

There may be some issues with that, especially in the Middle East. I know Judaism and I'm pretty sure Islam have some solid strictures against not getting buried with all your bits. Now, I'm not enough of a theologian to say those rules are waived when you're helping another or saving a life, but there are very likely fundamentalist sects in the area (of both religions) who are going to object very strongly to "Only if you say no" being the default setting.

Apik0r0s: That is the article's author, Ian Black, not Tibi. It's a little ambiguous, but if the military is making such confirmations, it would seem they are somehow involved.

Maybe because the military was referring to the bones/corneas of soldiers taken without permission ? it would seem you didn't know about the lawsuit involved.

It's hard not to notice how you stopped replying once i asked you why you lied.