If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians who didn't need them any more. Predictably, the anti-semites are making this sound bad   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 520
    More: Followup, Palestinians, Press TV, Israeli army, UC Berkeley, Aftonbladet, Tel Aviv, West Bank, Gaza Strip  
•       •       •

14659 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2009 at 8:50 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



520 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2009-12-20 05:56:50 PM
China Still does it, except they keep their 'falun gong worshippers' alive until someone needs the organ.. They are all tissue-matched and ready for your needs.

Israel saying, "No we didn't", and now recanting "Yeah, we did it" should give you accurate insight as to 'how they roll'.

If these examples of inhumanity aren't cassus belli, then there are none. Instead, we'll see billions of our tax dollars go to both countrys.

/expect to see this story worsen, as you can't really harvest from dead people, which blows a big hole in their latest story.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2009-12-20 06:26:08 PM
Axias: If these examples of inhumanity aren't cassus belli, then there are none.

Cassus belli is an opportunity for war, not an obligation. The world can be divided into countries that are already at war with Israel, that can't take on Israel without getting their asses kicked, that can't hurt Israel, and America and a few other countries with the ability to project power who aren't interested in wiping Israel off the map.

At most this will cause Jewish lobbyists in Washington to work a little harder.
 
2009-12-20 06:27:54 PM
And they chop down Palestinian olive trees, which I object to even more strongly.
 
2009-12-20 06:32:53 PM
What the what, Israel?!
 
2009-12-20 06:39:34 PM
Meh.
 
2009-12-20 06:40:44 PM
I wonder what they can do with cash that needs cleaned up?
 
2009-12-20 06:54:40 PM
Casus belli is a Latin expression meaning the justification for acts of war. (Wikipedia)

My point is, if a country starts pulling this crap, it's a justification for any other country which takes offense at it to go to war.

The Palestinian side of the story is that they would abduct people for organ harvesting, which sadly, is pretty much how you'd have to do it to have a chance at transplant.

/didn't want to believe it, but meh..
 
2009-12-20 07:11:57 PM
Weaver95: Meh.

This is totally a shocking reaction coming from you.
 
2009-12-20 07:12:13 PM
You know who else did shiat like this?
 
2009-12-20 07:37:22 PM
cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: Meh.

This is totally a shocking reaction coming from you.


it's not like I can do anything about it.
 
2009-12-20 07:46:05 PM
GAT_00: You know who else did shiat like this?

It's not like they made lampshades out of the body parts from people they killed...

Israeli abhorrent acts are justified because someone else did more abhorrent acts.

I will refer to this as the "Jewbacca Defense"

Case dismissed.
 
2009-12-20 07:46:16 PM
Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Yeah, because the appropriate reaction is to not give a shiat to human rights abuses. Of course, it is you.
 
2009-12-20 07:50:19 PM
GAT_00: Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Yeah, because the appropriate reaction is to not give a shiat to human rights abuses. Of course, it is you.


i'm flattered you think I have the power to punish Israel for this sort of abuse, but believe me - there's nothing I can do about it.
 
2009-12-20 07:52:42 PM
Weaver95: i'm flattered you think I have the power to punish Israel for this sort of abuse, but believe me - there's nothing I can do about it.

That isn't the point and you know it. You give Israel a pass on a lot these days, including apparantly human rights.
 
2009-12-20 07:57:00 PM
Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Yeah, because the appropriate reaction is to not give a shiat to human rights abuses. Of course, it is you.

i'm flattered you think I have the power to punish Israel for this sort of abuse, but believe me - there's nothing I can do about it.


There's nothing I can do about torture on the part of American interrogators, either. Doesn't mean I don't want to stop it. Way to miss the point, comrade.
 
2009-12-20 08:03:02 PM
I'm sure an apology for all that talk of "blood libel" will be forthcoming. Any minute now.
 
2009-12-20 08:03:39 PM
The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL
 
2009-12-20 08:03:52 PM
Weaver95

i'm flattered you think I have the power to punish Israel for this sort of abuse, but believe me - there's nothing I can do about it

I myself plan to make a nice bagel and lox sandwich for breakfast tomorrow, but defile it before I eat it with a slice of crispy bacon.

/take that jew oppressors
 
2009-12-20 08:05:25 PM
cameroncrazy1984: There's nothing I can do about torture on the part of American interrogators, either.


actually, you have a greater chance of doing something about US torture than you do about whatever the hell Israel is up to these days. Just keep pressuring your elected officials to do something about it. Never let up. And get everyone else you know involved. Don't settle for a brush off and a shallow compromise either - push until you get some accountability.

But that might mean making Obama look bad. so I doubt you'll do it.
 
2009-12-20 08:10:33 PM
Weaver95: Just keep pressuring your elected officials to do something about it.

Huh. If only this applied to some kind of lobbying done by some kind of foreign country that we give aid to...if only.
 
2009-12-20 08:16:17 PM
Weaver95: But that might mean making Obama look bad. so I doubt you'll do it.

Ah, I see, politics is what matters here. Not human lives. Classy.
 
2009-12-20 08:19:55 PM
GAT_00: Weaver95: But that might mean making Obama look bad. so I doubt you'll do it.

Ah, I see, politics is what matters here. Not human lives. Classy.


that's very arrogant of you.
 
2009-12-20 08:20:31 PM
Weaver95: that's very arrogant of you.

Your accusing me of arrogance for pointing out your own words? Nice.
 
2009-12-20 08:22:57 PM
GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL


In his defense you are comparing US government actions to Israeli government actions. I'm betting Weaver95 is probably American and therefore can vote and/or pester his representatives. You can't exactly do the same when you are talking about another country.

Of course if you had a quote from Weaver using human rights violations to support the war in Iraq, now would be an awfully good time to post it.
 
2009-12-20 08:26:08 PM
Weaver95: Meh.

i mean, it's not like they're human, amirite, Gary?
 
2009-12-20 08:26:58 PM
GAT_00: Weaver95: that's very arrogant of you.

Your accusing me of arrogance for pointing out your own words? Nice.


lighten up francis.
 
2009-12-20 08:28:08 PM
FlashHarry: Weaver95: Meh.

i mean, it's not like they're human, amirite, Gary?


whoops. Weaver. lol. i just assumed that was a PDX answer.
 
2009-12-20 08:31:22 PM
Weaver95: Meh.


its not like IDF went into their homes and kidnapped these people.
these are hardened criminals that cross the boarder and attack people of Israel.
then again, leave it to fark to have a hate on israel parade for no reason. at least when i complain its for valid reasons (white phosphorus) ... you are complaining about a prefectly legal action that is helping human kind become better. take away from the scum terrorists and give it to rich deserving families.
 
2009-12-20 08:31:28 PM
GAT_00: Weaver95: that's very arrogant of you.

Your accusing me of arrogance for pointing out your own words? Nice.


No, i'm saying it's arrogant to assume you (or me, for that matter) have the ability to punish Israel for their actions. i'm just one guy on a random internet discussion forum. ok, and I've got a blog. But still - nothing I say will affect the world in the slightest.

I can reasonably assume to influence my local politicans. And if I worked my ass off I *might* have some small impact on state politics...but nationally? forget it. And my ability to influence the affairs of other nations is non-existent.

do what you can with what you've got. getting worked up about things you can't change will just drive you nutty. why you (and others) assume that your outrage can affect how Israel does business is entirely beyond me. It strikes me as arrogant, not to mention slightly delusional.
 
2009-12-20 08:33:44 PM
Weaver95: No, i'm saying it's arrogant to assume you (or me, for that matter) have the ability to punish Israel for their actions.

So you're still missing the entire point here? So why condemn China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, or really anyone else for rights abuses, but not Israel? Why do you think you, in your own words, influence events there, but not in Israel? Or do you just refuse to criticize Israel?
 
2009-12-20 08:36:09 PM
GAT_00: So you're still missing the entire point here? So why condemn China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, or really anyone else for rights abuses, but not Israel? Why do you think you, in your own words, influence events there, but not in Israel? Or do you just refuse to criticize Israel?

oh I think it's reprehensible. But i'm not jumping up and down on the living room couch and screaming my fool head off about it like you are.

face it - there's nothing we can do about it.
 
2009-12-20 08:38:05 PM
Weaver95: face it - there's nothing we can do about it.

Then why jump up and down in the past? Why the sudden change of attitude? Oh, right, Israel. Who you refuse to criticize.
 
2009-12-20 08:38:47 PM
Weaver95: face it - there's nothing we can do about it.

The cynicism is strong with this one.
 
2009-12-20 08:39:10 PM
GAT_00: Weaver95: face it - there's nothing we can do about it.

Then why jump up and down in the past? Why the sudden change of attitude? Oh, right, Israel. Who you refuse to criticize.


*sigh*

that point just went zooming right over your head....

won't be the last time either, I'm sure.
 
2009-12-20 08:40:06 PM
Weaver95: that point just went zooming right over your head....

And dodges the question!
 
2009-12-20 08:40:37 PM
Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: that's very arrogant of you.

Your accusing me of arrogance for pointing out your own words? Nice.

No, i'm saying it's arrogant to assume you (or me, for that matter) have the ability to punish Israel for their actions. i'm just one guy on a random internet discussion forum. ok, and I've got a blog. But still - nothing I say will affect the world in the slightest.

I can reasonably assume to influence my local politicans. And if I worked my ass off I *might* have some small impact on state politics...but nationally? forget it. And my ability to influence the affairs of other nations is non-existent.

do what you can with what you've got. getting worked up about things you can't change will just drive you nutty. why you (and others) assume that your outrage can affect how Israel does business is entirely beyond me. It strikes me as arrogant, not to mention slightly delusional.


Apparently you're not familiar with the concept of zeitgeist? If enough people become outraged enough times, then over time perceptions and attitudes will change. Look at the black civil rights struggle; look at the gay civil rights struggle. Have you forgotten already what an unprecedented, historic thing it was that we just elected our first black POTUS? It wasn't any one person doing any one thing that brought that about; it was a gradual, incremental, but far-reaching shift of attitude on the part of millions of Americans.

Dismiss the power of the zeitgeist at your peril.
 
2009-12-20 08:41:02 PM
I would do a facepalm, but both were harvested.
 
2009-12-20 08:41:45 PM
jmaster306: Weaver95: face it - there's nothing we can do about it.

The cynicism is strong with this one.


If I were running the show, I'd handle things differently. But telling me I should be all up in arms over something that happened over 10 years ago in a country on the other side of the world makes no sense to me. what am I gonna do? send them a harshly worded blog entry? like that'll change things for the better...
 
2009-12-20 08:46:42 PM
Your Faith is Creepy: Apparently you're not familiar with the concept of zeitgeist? If enough people become outraged enough times, then over time perceptions and attitudes will change.

in this culture? c'mon dude. our pundits base entire careers around manufacturing outrage in order to manipulate the governement into passing laws the they want. In this day and age, the only way to be a true rebel is to be a cynic.

Look at the black civil rights struggle; look at the gay civil rights struggle. Have you forgotten already what an unprecedented, historic thing it was that we just elected our first black POTUS? It wasn't any one person doing any one thing that brought that about; it was a gradual, incremental, but far-reaching shift of attitude on the part of millions of Americans.

i'd say you misunderstood the underlying historical/economic forces behind most of those changes....but far be it for me to harsh your zietgeist buzz.

Dismiss the power of the zeitgeist at your peril.

burn K street to the ground first, and we'll talk.
 
2009-12-20 08:50:58 PM
Weaver95: burn K street to the ground first, and we'll talk.

Yeah, like K street hasn't always been with us, in one form or another.
 
2009-12-20 08:51:56 PM
Weaver95: Your Faith is Creepy: Apparently you're not familiar with the concept of zeitgeist? If enough people become outraged enough times, then over time perceptions and attitudes will change.

in this culture? c'mon dude. our pundits base entire careers around manufacturing outrage in order to manipulate the governement into passing laws the they want. In this day and age, the only way to be a true rebel is to be a cynic.

Look at the black civil rights struggle; look at the gay civil rights struggle. Have you forgotten already what an unprecedented, historic thing it was that we just elected our first black POTUS? It wasn't any one person doing any one thing that brought that about; it was a gradual, incremental, but far-reaching shift of attitude on the part of millions of Americans.

i'd say you misunderstood the underlying historical/economic forces behind most of those changes....but far be it for me to harsh your zietgeist buzz.

Dismiss the power of the zeitgeist at your peril.

burn K street to the ground first, and we'll talk.


Way to move the goalposts, dude. At first you're talking about the futility of hoping to have an impact on world affairs, which the zeitgeist can actually do (to cite yet another example, look at world attitudes towards America pre-9/11, immediately post-9/11, and a year after the invasion of Iraq), but now you want the zeitgeist to pass laws and burn down K Street? I think you misunderestimate your own understanding of the dynamics at work here.

The zeitgeist can't burn down K Street, but it can make enough people apathetic enough that they won't do anything when K Street is torched. Let's see, how could we spread such apathy? How about... responding to admissions of organ harvesting, a serious human rights violation, with a single syllable indicating bored dismissal? Yeah, that ought to do it.
 
2009-12-20 08:53:17 PM
How about being honest there Subby - FTFA - "Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."

And it was informally done, no big Jewish conspiracy.
 
2009-12-20 08:54:58 PM
Your Faith is Creepy: The zeitgeist can't burn down K Street, but it can make enough people apathetic enough that they won't do anything when K Street is torched. Let's see, how could we spread such apathy? How about... responding to admissions of organ harvesting, a serious human rights violation, with a single syllable indicating bored dismissal? Yeah, that ought to do it.

so you're saying I really AM all powerful? duuuude....

i'm gonna recompile the matrix to let everyone fly!
 
2009-12-20 08:57:26 PM
some things should just be left unsaid especially if said practice had been stopped and hasn't been done in over a decade.
 
2009-12-20 08:57:54 PM
The story is hard to follow. If I understand it, in 2000, Israel admitted that in the 1990's, it harvested some organs. The headline and subby imply this is going on now.
 
2009-12-20 08:58:06 PM
Watching Weaver back pedal all over this thread makes me chuckle.
 
2009-12-20 08:58:29 PM
Do they catch the organs with buckets after aslpoding them like a water balloon toss game?

/cuz that would be fun
 
2009-12-20 08:58:57 PM
Aftonbladet quoted Palestinians as saying young men from the West Bank and Gaza Strip had been seized by the Israeli forces and their bodies returned to their families with missing organs.



blog.oregonlive.com

/What Palestinian zombies may look like...
 
2009-12-20 09:00:10 PM
Also in the "meh" camp.

Israel isn't my country, and can do whatever the hell they want, and won't pay any attention to my opinion one way or another.

However, I bet they'd do a lot less of "whatever the hell they want" if we were to quit giving them money and promises of defense.
 
2009-12-20 09:00:17 PM
Subby's been harvesting a lot of straw.
www.pentaclerecords.net
 
2009-12-20 09:00:20 PM
Lampshades.
 
2009-12-20 09:00:31 PM
Weaver95: Your Faith is Creepy: The zeitgeist can't burn down K Street, but it can make enough people apathetic enough that they won't do anything when K Street is torched. Let's see, how could we spread such apathy? How about... responding to admissions of organ harvesting, a serious human rights violation, with a single syllable indicating bored dismissal? Yeah, that ought to do it.

so you're saying I really AM all powerful? duuuude....

i'm gonna recompile the matrix to let everyone fly!



Believe it or not, the choices aren't limited to simply binaries of utter powerlessness and complete omniscience. Neither are there only individuals and vague, monolithic wholes. Come on now - be reasonable and try to get past the black-and-white thinking.
 
2009-12-20 09:00:36 PM
Weaver95: i'm gonna recompile the matrix to let everyone fly!

While you're at it, can you give me a threesome with Fook Mi and Fook Yu?
 
2009-12-20 09:00:49 PM
So now they follow ethics and Jewish law? There are some stories from the old testament that make this not so encouraging to me. ;)

I'd rather they follow international law and human rights conventions.
 
2009-12-20 09:01:20 PM
jmaster306: GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL

In his defense you are comparing US government actions to Israeli government actions. I'm betting Weaver95 is probably American and therefore can vote and/or pester his representatives. You can't exactly do the same when you are talking about another country.



But doesn't the US give billions of dollars to Israel each year? Seems like Americans can vote and/or pester their representatives to end this.
 
2009-12-20 09:01:30 PM
This is not kosher
 
2009-12-20 09:02:32 PM
Axias: China Still does it, except they keep their 'falun gong worshippers' alive until someone needs the organ.. They are all tissue-matched and ready for your needs.

Israel saying, "No we didn't", and now recanting "Yeah, we did it" should give you accurate insight as to 'how they roll'.

If these examples of inhumanity aren't cassus belli, then there are none. Instead, we'll see billions of our tax dollars go to both countrys.

/expect to see this story worsen, as you can't really harvest from dead people, which blows a big hole in their latest story.


According to the article, this occurred at one "institute" (hospital?) within Israel. I'm not sure if that means it's even accurate to say "Israel does this".

I'm not sure at all why the professor released the interview. Again, the article says this happened to everyone that was in the hospital (and died.) The professor stretches that into some judgment about how Israel is skinning its enemies.
 
2009-12-20 09:02:32 PM
The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs - a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".

So, even the truth is antisemitic now. Guess this means Israel will stick to lying from now on then.
 
2009-12-20 09:03:07 PM
Of course there's outrage that the Israelis were healed by the bodies of Arabs intending to kill Jews. We all know that Muslims don't take irony very well.
 
2009-12-20 09:03:19 PM
Damnhippyfreak: Come on now - be reasonable and try to get past the black-and-white thinking.

Good luck with that. Let me know how this conversation works out for you.

fotbr: However, I bet they'd do a lot less of "whatever the hell they want" if we were to quit giving them money and promises of defense.

That'd be a good start.

But, I'm pretty sure it is unconstitutional or racist or something
 
2009-12-20 09:03:27 PM
TheAgeOfEgos: Watching Weaver back pedal all over this thread makes me chuckle.

*sigh*

no. i'm just speaking over everyone's head again.

In the kingdom of the blindblahblahblah....
 
2009-12-20 09:06:58 PM
Heh, that must be an extremely demoralizing tactic, to have a soldier's body parts taken and used by the enemy to prolong their lives. Especially if you see them as subhuman or whatnot.

Does it count as the spoils of war? You could employ sniper teams for the sole purpose of not damaging organs. I guess it's very macabre, but it seems very effective.
 
2009-12-20 09:07:04 PM
Your Faith is Creepy: pre-9/11, immediately post-9/11, and a year after the invasion of Iraq

You know, I don't think there was much of a change in the world attitudes.

My Canadian mother-in-law, who has a disease that causes her to say whatever the hell happens to be floating across her pea-brained mind, remarked to me in late Sept 2001 that perhaps the US would stop interfering in world politics as a result of 9/11. She is a holocaust survivor, and her daughter and I were both working jobs that took us in and out of the Pentagon on a weekly basis at the time, which to me makes her attitude a little bit funnier and a lot more informing.

I did not discuss this in depth with her, but I don't think her attitudes were or are uncommon. I believe the "sympathy" generated by the events of 2001 was not as deeply felt by foreign people as their governments conveyed.

//cool story bro?
 
2009-12-20 09:08:17 PM
must be nice to be israel, you can do whatever you want and if anyone calls you out on it you can just call them anti semites and they wont dare do anything else!
 
2009-12-20 09:09:09 PM
This is not kosher

Yes it is ; they follow similar dietary laws.

// Its morality is another issue.
 
2009-12-20 09:10:24 PM
wh40k.lexicanum.com

/not impressed
//better not be obscure
 
2009-12-20 09:11:51 PM
As someone with a couple pieces of cadaver bone (and some titanium hardware) in my neck, I'm getting a real creepy feeling from this article
 
2009-12-20 09:11:55 PM
Yet another thread where a certain individual known for being in these sorts of threads will not show up, because there is absolutely no way even he could spin this.
 
2009-12-20 09:12:20 PM
Does it count as the spoils of war? You could employ sniper teams for the sole purpose of not damaging organs. I guess it's very macabre, but it seems very effective.


HEADSHOT !


// MONSTER KILL !
 
2009-12-20 09:12:29 PM
Meh.
 
2009-12-20 09:12:33 PM
Weaver95: TheAgeOfEgos: Watching Weaver back pedal all over this thread makes me chuckle.

*sigh*

no. i'm just speaking over everyone's head again.

In the kingdom of the blindblahblahblah....


lol, you know the first sign of maturity/intelligence is the ability to admit you are wrong. You could have saved yourself GATs beat down early in the thread by adopting that. Keep up the good fight though champ ;).
 
2009-12-20 09:13:05 PM
Who the fark is Weaver95 and why should we care ?
 
2009-12-20 09:13:13 PM
Human rights abuses only count when Israel is the perpetrator.
 
2009-12-20 09:13:49 PM
FiatJustitia: /not impressed
//better not be obscure


THE PALESTINIAN GENE-SEED IS IMPURE.
 
2009-12-20 09:14:15 PM
FiatJustitia: /not impressed
//better not be obscure


Gather the gene-seed brother.
 
2009-12-20 09:14:53 PM
GAT_00: You know who else did shiat like this?

upload.wikimedia.org

Approves.
 
2009-12-20 09:16:02 PM
why make everyone fly. if i could fly, id want to look down on all those who couldnt and really appreciate how awesome it was i could fly. but then if i couldnt fly but had to watch others fly, id be better even more bitter that i couldnt fly than i already am about not being able to fly.

/really wants to fly
 
2009-12-20 09:16:28 PM
Anyone care to explain how you can violate the "human rights" of a corpse?
 
2009-12-20 09:17:30 PM
Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Meh.

Hey, quit speaking over our heads.
 
2009-12-20 09:17:37 PM
Jesus Christ.
 
2009-12-20 09:17:50 PM
Weaver95: i'm gonna recompile the matrix to let everyone fly!

can you give me invisibility as well? I can think of a lot of uses for that.
 
2009-12-20 09:18:14 PM
Careful, Isreal...

www.durfee.net

That kind of shiat can get out of hand...
 
2009-12-20 09:18:35 PM
Boy, I just KNOW this is going to make Garrison Keillor all crotchety again about those song-writing Hebrews...
 
2009-12-20 09:18:41 PM
GAT_00: You know who else did shiat like this?

The Tleilaxu?
 
2009-12-20 09:18:59 PM
Mouser: Anyone care to explain how you can violate the "human rights" of a corpse?

APPROVES
http://tinyurl.com/ydeho3a
(copy and paste, NSFW)
 
2009-12-20 09:19:24 PM
Prediction: This will be ardently supported by the very same people who threaten that the United States will be massacred by the "lord of Judea" (whatever the fark that is) for anything related to human cloning, gene therapy, stem cell research, etc.
 
2009-12-20 09:19:47 PM
niroth: GAT_00: You know who else did shiat like this?

The Tleilaxu?


Wouldn't they grow their own Palestinians instead?
 
2009-12-20 09:20:36 PM
Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family."


That's just lovely, is it really that hard to ask.
 
2009-12-20 09:20:42 PM
You know who else harvested organs from Semites?
 
2009-12-20 09:20:49 PM
Wait, if everyone can fly and be invisible, wouldnt that mean a lot of mid-air collisions. Thats not a world I want to live in. I want a do-over.
 
2009-12-20 09:21:35 PM
Babwa Wawa: Wouldn't they grow their own Palestinians instead?

Westbank chairs
as they would say.
 
2009-12-20 09:22:07 PM
farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2009-12-20 09:22:11 PM
WE HATE YOU

except for the totally delici
 
2009-12-20 09:22:22 PM
MBooda: Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Meh.

Hey, quit speaking over our heads.


I'm just saying that as an organ abnormal growth, I'm in favor of transplants ... to spread the love, you know? It wasn't as though the guy was using it anymore.
 
2009-12-20 09:22:36 PM
How hilarious is it that Jews act exactly the way Nazis did? LMAO Wonder if that kind of bull-shiat got them incinerated?
 
2009-12-20 09:22:42 PM
shanteyman
>>This is not kosher
Yes it is ; they follow similar dietary laws.


Um, no it's not. Trafficking in human body parts is about as severe a violation of Jewish law as you can get. Waaay beyond eating pork.
 
2009-12-20 09:22:52 PM
WE HATE YOU

except for the totally delicious parts!!!
 
2009-12-20 09:23:07 PM
Mouser: Anyone care to explain how you can violate the "human rights" of a corpse?

I don't know about Israel, but here in the U.S., desecration of a corpse is a crime in a number of states.
 
2009-12-20 09:23:13 PM
I wouldnt have thought anything was usable after a Palestinian surprise. Goes to show how crafty them jews are.
 
2009-12-20 09:23:35 PM
Well, it's not like their own religion allows for leaving parts behind.
 
2009-12-20 09:23:40 PM
traylor & GAT_OO

You know who else did shait like this?

No. No! That was totally different. Those people were still alive and still needed their organs. So, no. He would not approve.
 
2009-12-20 09:24:31 PM
Where's Tatsuma when you need him...to defend whatever naziesque tactics Israel's up to these days.
 
2009-12-20 09:25:27 PM
YoungSwedishBlonde: Human rights abuses only count when Israel is the perpetrator.

No. But not all human rights violations can be excused due to circumstance.

Israel treating Palestinians as second class citizens who need to be checked everywhere they go for bombs? That's excusable, because too many of them are trying to sneak bombs into places.

Blowing up known militants when they're out in public, taking a few likely innocents with them? Yeah, it's war, it sucks, and it's infinitely better than the Palestinian 'blow em all up' method of targeting.

Israel bulldozing buildings where militants are known to hide out? Not really excusable, but understandable and reluctantly tolerable.

Israel taking organs from the bodies of people with whom they're at war? I can't see that being acceptable if they want to promote themselves as 'the good guys'.
 
2009-12-20 09:25:31 PM
mdbirt: How hilarious is it that Jews act exactly the way Nazis did?

Not at all, it's the exact same late 19th century nationalist roots.

It's stupefying thousands of GIs died to defend secular western democracy in WWII just to see thousands more die in neo-con wars to defend a theocratic nationalist hell hole 50 years later.

And no one particularly cares.
 
2009-12-20 09:25:45 PM
The US is taking stem cells from fetuses who don't need them anymore, so why not?
 
2009-12-20 09:25:50 PM
Weaver95
nothing I say will affect the world in the slightest.

then SHUT... UP.

You and all the other individualists or libertarians or True Republicans or whatever the fark you are... Every time there's an opportunity to make an actual suggestion, you fail, because the fact of the matter is, you like things just the way they are- but you've got to talk, maybe because it's a substitute for risk; maybe because when you try and think of the staggering scale of the problem your head starts to spin; maybe you think it'll give you plausible deniability; maybe you just like the sound of your own voice.

There are plenty of things you can do to change Israeli policy. Work on advancing the incipient boycott. Get an institution you're involved in (such as a bank or university) to disinvest- you can even force them to, by making their only alternative an expensive, image-damaging PR hit. Send money to Israeli peace organizations. Build the infrastructure for a moneyless economy that subverts the current corrupt one. But you're not going to do any of this, are you? Because that's work. And you just want to biatch.
 
2009-12-20 09:25:52 PM
without the consent of their families -

That sounds a lot like a theft. Isn't that bad according to one of the commandments?
 
2009-12-20 09:26:30 PM
Dr._Love: Where's Tatsuma

Harvesting organs.
 
2009-12-20 09:27:26 PM
Ah the cirle of religeon...oops, meant to say life.
 
2009-12-20 09:27:42 PM
Sometimes the Israelis can seem downright nazi like.
 
2009-12-20 09:27:53 PM
ACallForPeace: FiatJustitia: /not impressed
//better not be obscure

Gather the gene-seed brother.


TheAgeOfEgos: FiatJustitia: /not impressed
//better not be obscure

THE PALESTINIAN GENE-SEED IS IMPURE.
 
2009-12-20 09:27:54 PM
DarnoKonrad: Dr._Love: Where's Tatsuma?

Harvesting organs.


BOOM! Headshot!
 
2009-12-20 09:28:21 PM
chalk.richmond.edu

Meanwhile, this sign seems to have gone missing yesterday.

/Fark wouldn't run the story.

//walks away whistling
 
2009-12-20 09:29:22 PM
edmo: Sometimes the Israelis can seem downright nazi like.

After all, they are doing what every other civilized nation is doing.
 
2009-12-20 09:29:24 PM
Well see, that shiat is just fourteen kinds of farked up.
 
2009-12-20 09:31:38 PM
It's good that they ended this practice in the 1990s. Bad that they did it at all.
 
2009-12-20 09:31:49 PM
i.dailymail.co.uk

Zoink!

No really, somebody stole the Auschwitz sign.

/I guess the scavenger hunt has been won.
 
2009-12-20 09:31:49 PM
Gotta point out that harvesting tissue is not the same as harvesting organs. You don't need the donor to be alive in order to harvest corneas, bones, nor heart valves. So your theories that the victims were alive are baseless.

Whether I am infuriated? Oh come on. Like desecration of enemy bodies is a new thing. Anyone remember Somalia? If you die in a war zone, your body is fair game to the enemy. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens in every war, and Israel and Palestine are at war. So am I surprised or outraged? No. But I also don't like Palestinians, so there you go.
 
2009-12-20 09:32:22 PM
I recall there was a crazy Turkish film made a few years back that starred Gary Busey as some kind of Israeli doctor that paid U.S. soldiers for organs harvested from kidnapped muslims. Now because of this sleazy hospital that kind of insanity becomes one step closer to mainstream in the Middle East. Thanks a lot, allies!

(P.S. Just found the IMDB page - "Valley of the Wolves: Iraq")
 
2009-12-20 09:32:30 PM
i46.tinypic.com
 
2009-12-20 09:32:34 PM
95-98
http://tinyurl.com/yavv4bq
(copy and paste)
 
2009-12-20 09:32:54 PM
gorgor: Mouser: Anyone care to explain how you can violate the "human rights" of a corpse?

APPROVES
(copy and paste, NSFW)


I'm almost tempted to open the link because the set-up is too terrible...
 
2009-12-20 09:33:14 PM
PC LOAD LETTER: It's good that they said that they ended this practice in the 1990s. Bad that they did it at all.
 
2009-12-20 09:33:41 PM
Meh, those organs wanted to go to Israel anyway.
 
2009-12-20 09:33:46 PM
What a trollmitter might look like:

img692.imageshack.us

imageshack.us Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!
 
2009-12-20 09:34:41 PM
Josef Mengele: fair game to the enemy. I also don't like Palestinians, so there you go.



You don't say.
 
2009-12-20 09:35:00 PM
studebaker hoch: Meanwhile, this sign seems to have gone missing yesterday.

/Fark wouldn't run the story.

//walks away whistling


It was Friday...and it was on Fark
 
2009-12-20 09:35:40 PM
BarackHusseinObama: [Picture]

Well ... yeah. Armies wage war. Specifically, the military forces of nation states. So unless you're about to excuse Blackwater, the distinguishing fact remains: one of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong.
 
2009-12-20 09:36:26 PM
Eh, who cares. Those animals don't deserve anything.
 
2009-12-20 09:36:30 PM
Unsung_Hero: YoungSwedishBlonde: Human rights abuses only count when Israel is the perpetrator.

No. But not all human rights violations can be excused due to circumstance.

Israel treating Palestinians as second class citizens who need to be checked everywhere they go for bombs? That's excusable, because too many of them are trying to sneak bombs into places.

Blowing up known militants when they're out in public, taking a few likely innocents with them? Yeah, it's war, it sucks, and it's infinitely better than the Palestinian 'blow em all up' method of targeting.

Israel bulldozing buildings where militants are known to hide out? Not really excusable, but understandable and reluctantly tolerable.

Israel taking organs from the bodies of people with whom they're at war? I can't see that being acceptable if they want to promote themselves as 'the good guys'.


Indiscriminately lobbing shells into Israel...totally cool. Arab League losing every war of aggression they've fought against Israel...Israel should totally hand back lands to a people that never had a country and have been disowned by every other country in the area.
 
2009-12-20 09:36:38 PM
To be fair, the Hebrews have a long history of whipping off surplus body bits.

/probably just force of habit
 
2009-12-20 09:36:58 PM
img.youtube.com
 
2009-12-20 09:37:07 PM
MightySapphire: Gotta point out that harvesting tissue is not the same as harvesting organs. You don't need the donor to be alive in order to harvest corneas, bones, nor heart valves. So your theories that the victims were alive are baseless.

Whether I am infuriated? Oh come on. Like desecration of enemy bodies is a new thing. Anyone remember Somalia? If you die in a war zone, your body is fair game to the enemy. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens in every war, and Israel and Palestine are at war. So am I surprised or outraged? No. But I also don't like Palestinians, so there you go.


images.starcraftmazter.net
 
2009-12-20 09:37:33 PM
GAT_00: You know who else did shiat like this?

To be fair, Hitler couldn't harvest organs from slightly living Jews, because organ transplants hadn't quite been invented yet. And even if they had, I'm sure he wouldn't have put the organs of an inferior race into The Master Race.

He'd probably have figured out something to do with them, though.
 
2009-12-20 09:37:42 PM
dennysgod

And....a tip 'o the hat to Fark

/feel better now...
 
2009-12-20 09:38:15 PM
Meh, those organs wanted to go to Israel anyway.studebaker hoch: No really, somebody stole the Auschwitz sign.

Yeah, I know. I heard it here on Fark... "Auschwitz' infamous "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign goes frei due to thieves' arbeit".

/your game of moran-connects-the-dots is cute though
 
2009-12-20 09:38:46 PM
YoungSwedishBlonde: Israel should totally hand back lands to a people that never had a country and have been disowned by every other country in the area.

Sounds familiar, like 1948 familiar...
 
2009-12-20 09:39:26 PM
studebaker hoch: Zoink!

No really, somebody stole the Auschwitz sign.

/I guess the scavenger hunt has been won.


They're just making a minor adjustment. See, it's back already and better than evar.

img693.imageshack.us
 
2009-12-20 09:39:28 PM
Gyrfalcon:

He'd probably have figured out something to do with them, though.



Palestinian skin lamp shades can't be too far away.
 
2009-12-20 09:39:39 PM
Came for Vidiians, leaving with an empty fee.. OH GOD THEY STOLE MY KIDNEY
 
2009-12-20 09:39:53 PM
garvin32: But doesn't the US give billions of dollars to Israel each year? Seems like Americans can vote and/or pester their representatives to end this.

Yeah that always seems to work.
 
2009-12-20 09:41:24 PM
So they once harvested corneas etc from everyone (not just Palestinians).

Looking for the issue here. That is becoming standard in many countries as we speak. There is a movement in the US to do the same. I disagree with it, but this isn't an "Israel vs Palestinian" issue.
 
2009-12-20 09:41:33 PM
m2313: Sounds familiar, like 1948 familiar...

Go cry to the British then.
 
2009-12-20 09:41:49 PM
I'm sorry, but a lot of this smells fishy.

First it says "Israel admits"

The guy was Yehuda Hiss, and apparantly he did it without authorization, and was dismissed for doing so.

So "Israel" did nothing.

Another hate-smear attempt by Al-Guardian
 
2009-12-20 09:42:31 PM
RanDomino: There are plenty of things you can do to change Israeli policy. Work on advancing the incipient boycott. Get an institution you're involved in (such as a bank or university) to disinvest- you can even force them to, by making their only alternative an expensive, image-damaging PR hit. Send money to Israeli peace organizations. Build the infrastructure for a moneyless economy that subverts the current corrupt one. But you're not going to do any of this, are you? Because that's work. And you just want to biatch.

You forgot to mention "pressure the US Gov't to use the billions in Israeli
foreign aid as leverage" or even "stop providing cover to Israel in the UN"

A bunch of moderate Jews even put together their own lobbying group
called "J Street" as a counterpoint to the conservative AIPAC.
But hey, he's already decided there's nothing he can do about it.

As a side issue, it seems even the Israelis don't understand the difference between anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic.
 
2009-12-20 09:43:01 PM
Gyrfalcon: He'd probably have figured out something to do with them, though.

i47.tinypic.com
 
2009-12-20 09:43:55 PM
geniusiknowit: Gyrfalcon: He'd probably have figured out something to do with them, though.

EWWWWW!
 
2009-12-20 09:44:24 PM
RanDomino: Build the infrastructure for a moneyless economy

The Jews aren't going to like that.
 
2009-12-20 09:44:39 PM
YoungSwedishBlonde: Unsung_Hero: YoungSwedishBlonde: Human rights abuses only count when Israel is the perpetrator.

No. But not all human rights violations can be excused due to circumstance.

Israel treating Palestinians as second class citizens who need to be checked everywhere they go for bombs? That's excusable, because too many of them are trying to sneak bombs into places.

Blowing up known militants when they're out in public, taking a few likely innocents with them? Yeah, it's war, it sucks, and it's infinitely better than the Palestinian 'blow em all up' method of targeting.

Israel bulldozing buildings where militants are known to hide out? Not really excusable, but understandable and reluctantly tolerable.

Israel taking organs from the bodies of people with whom they're at war? I can't see that being acceptable if they want to promote themselves as 'the good guys'.

Indiscriminately lobbing shells into Israel...totally cool. Arab League losing every war of aggression they've fought against Israel...Israel should totally hand back lands to a people that never had a country and have been disowned by every other country in the area.


I never said that, and I don't get how you could possibly find a link from what I did say to your statement.

I think every bit of land Israel captured after the Arabs started a war should be Israel, and the people within DPs, who can wander over into Arab land to see how their Arab 'brothers' will greet and treat them.
 
2009-12-20 09:44:43 PM
GAT_00: You know who else did shiat like this?

Kyle Broflovski?

img189.imageshack.us
 
2009-12-20 09:45:14 PM
BarackHusseinObama
i46.tinypic.com

In March, an American protesting the construction of the Wall through the West Bank was shot in the head with a tear gas canister... Israel declared it an 'act of war' and, therefore, not eligible for investigation. Meanwhile, he's lost most of his cognitive functions and is basically a vegetable. Israel routinely fires live ammunition at innocent Palestinians and peaceful Palestinian protests (which are completely ignored by the American media even as it says they should protest instead of using violence).
 
2009-12-20 09:45:25 PM
I'm so farking tired of Israel. Why do we have to give them money and political favors again? What do they do for us?
 
2009-12-20 09:47:02 PM
darkedgefan: Eh, who cares. Those animals don't deserve anything.

Ahh, yes. They're not even human, so what's the harm in a little harvesting, experimentation, and whatnot?

Sieg heil, you farking asshole.
 
2009-12-20 09:48:22 PM
YoungSwedishBlonde: m2313: Sounds familiar, like 1948 familiar...

Go cry to the British then.


can we bomb their hotel first?
 
2009-12-20 09:49:38 PM
gadian: I'm so farking tired of Israel. Why do we have to give them money and political favors again? What do they do for us?

Israel did nothing. It was one guy who was prosecuted and dismissed from his post.
 
2009-12-20 09:49:50 PM
studebaker hoch: Meanwhile, this sign seems to have gone missing yesterday.
/Fark wouldn't run the story.
//walks away whistling


Yeah, it's a conspiracy of the MSM to hide THE TRUTH!!1! Either that or it was on the Fark front page.

I can't remember which.
 
2009-12-20 09:50:09 PM
gadian
I'm so farking tired of Israel. Why do we have to give them money and political favors again? What do they do for us?


nothing much - just engendered hatred and loathing from the Arab world to us...
 
2009-12-20 09:50:24 PM
FiatJustitia: /not impressed
//better not be obscure


Do they still use apothecaries in the current rules? Im talking table top here, dont give a fark about video games.


/has current rulebook on shelf
//too much effort to get up and get it
///knee surgery 2 weeks ago
////slashies for the emperor
 
2009-12-20 09:51:12 PM
Broz_Tito: Who the fark is Weaver95 and why should we care ?

Someone who spends a lot of time posting. And I mean a lot. Check any thread at nearly anytime of day and this dude is there. A real celebrity.
 
2009-12-20 09:51:40 PM
i don't know what to say...other than this saddens me deeply.
 
2009-12-20 09:51:48 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2009-12-20 09:52:06 PM
Need MOAR hookers
http://tinyurl.com/yeqelsa
(copy and paste)
 
2009-12-20 09:52:21 PM
If only the Israelis had some system to collect their organ donors in a series of camps. Also, instead of killing them with explosives and bullets, maybe the Israelis could use their donors as slave laborers until they die from program of intentional starvation and over-work. The organs could be harvested then perhaps the Israelis could build some large burning machine that would efficiently cremate the bodies. Then the Israelis could flush those ashes into a pond for disposal.

scienceblogs.com
 
2009-12-20 09:53:42 PM
one of Ripley's Bad Guys: gadian
I'm so farking tired of Israel. Why do we have to give them money and political favors again? What do they do for us?

nothing much - just engendered hatred and loathing from the Arab world to us...


Also they test whether our weapons systems are child-safe or not.
 
2009-12-20 09:53:42 PM
Swampthing in Korea: gadian: I'm so farking tired of Israel. Why do we have to give them money and political favors again? What do they do for us?

Israel did nothing. It was one guy who was prosecuted and dismissed from his post.


Nothing to see here, overzealous Jew.
 
2009-12-20 09:54:03 PM
Switzerland was all like "You have been stealing organs from political prisoners".

Israel was all like "Anti-Semite"

b..b..b..b...but the concentration camps! We get a pass on our evil.


/no Israel, you can't do whatever the fark you want.
 
2009-12-20 09:55:00 PM
TheShavingofOccam123: If only the Israelis had some system to collect their organ donors in a series of camps. Also, instead of killing them with explosives and bullets, maybe the Israelis could use their donors as slave laborers until they die from program of intentional starvation and over-work. The organs could be harvested then perhaps the Israelis could build some large burning machine that would efficiently cremate the bodies. Then the Israelis could flush those ashes into a pond for disposal.

Goddamit. Are you born stupid, or did you work for a degree. It was ONE guy who was doing it. One guy. He did it without official sanction. It was not a government progress.
 
2009-12-20 09:55:05 PM
garvin32: jmaster306: GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL

In his defense you are comparing US government actions to Israeli government actions. I'm betting Weaver95 is probably American and therefore can vote and/or pester his representatives. You can't exactly do the same when you are talking about another country.



But doesn't the US give billions of dollars to Israel each year? Seems like Americans can vote and/or pester their representatives to end this.


Of course we can, although stopping something that stopped over a decade ago may be tough.

Unless you mean stopping Israel from admitting past mistakes, which would seem like the wrong thing to protest.
 
2009-12-20 09:56:00 PM
The guy who said "meh" was spot on.
 
2009-12-20 09:56:19 PM
Just remember: If Israel, Israelis, or even one Israeli soldier did something bad IT'S OKAY, provided at sometime somewhere the Arabs did something bad to Israel. Nobody in Israel can ever do anything wrong, because SOMEONE ELSE did something bad to them first.

And if you don't agree, it's because you're anti-semitic, not because you think some actions are bad, regardless of who does them.
 
2009-12-20 09:56:28 PM
Mengele-like behavior. The Israelis are the text-book example of the abused child growing up to be an abuser.
 
2009-12-20 09:58:47 PM
I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead. As long as the health-care staff provide complete emergency care before you died you or act in accordance with your living will. Too many living people out there suffering because of religious fairy tales about having to be buried in the ground if you want your spirit to go to heaven.
 
2009-12-20 09:59:53 PM
well, at least the Jews aren't wasteful.
I mean, hey, free kidney.

Now, suicide bombings, that's wasteful.

Martyr my ass, at least be good for spare parts.

funny, cause here in Cincinnati, it was the Jewish folk who shat bricks about the coroner harvesting corneas. That was a big stink.

So I can't get too excited about this. It happens here. No harm done, they're farking toast.

/BFD
//and in the next breath, some farking goofnagle will call sportbikes 'donorcycles'.
///If all the other muslim countries gave that much of a shiat about the Palestinians, they would have been absorbed into those countries a long time ago. They are useful tools, allowing the rest to rallye against some Great Satans they blame for their big culture fail.
////Conquered is conquered. How far back to es restoration go, eh? Is there a time limit? Or does it just go back to when The Jews ain't there (the second time).
 
2009-12-20 10:00:09 PM
Well they have to take their organs, they already took their land, and they don't have anything else, except body odor, which no one wants.
 
2009-12-20 10:01:33 PM
beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead. As long as the health-care staff provide complete emergency care before you died you or act in accordance with your living will. Too many living people out there suffering because of religious fairy tales about having to be buried in the ground if you want your spirit to go to heaven.

Yeah.

The needs to be some kind of group or committee, like a panel to discuss stuff.
 
2009-12-20 10:01:46 PM
garvin32: jmaster306: GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL

But doesn't the US give billions of dollars to Israel each year? Seems like Americans can vote and/or pester their representatives to end this.


Fat chance. Jews wield massive influence in the USA. Every single President in modern times has sucked circumcised dick. One of Obama's first Presidential acts was to prostrate before AIPAC. Hillary threatened to "annihilate" every man, woman and child in Iran for them. Goldman Sachs and their alumni practically run the country. It's not even a secret.
 
2009-12-20 10:01:47 PM
So how long was this in practice by Israel before they stopped it "in the 1990s"? I've never heard of this before.
 
2009-12-20 10:02:02 PM
Degree Absolute
The guy who said "meh" was spot on.

Non-story. Criminalization of crimes against humanity.
 
2009-12-20 10:02:27 PM
Oh god, which is worse--stem cells or harvesting organs without permission? Decisions, decisions.
 
2009-12-20 10:03:37 PM
YoungSwedishBlonde: Human rights abuses only count when Israel is the perpetrator the victim is still viable.

FTFY

/ there is no dignity in death. In Life, yes; dead is dead.
//you poop, too.
 
2009-12-20 10:03:38 PM
The Associated Press article actually says that there was small group of doctors at Abu Kabir who illegally, and without the consent of their superior, harvested organs
 
2009-12-20 10:04:31 PM
Suede head: Mengele-like behavior.

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.
Yeah, this ranks right up there with medical experiments on living people.
 
2009-12-20 10:04:47 PM
Suede head: garvin32: jmaster306: GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL

But doesn't the US give billions of dollars to Israel each year? Seems like Americans can vote and/or pester their representatives to end this.

Fat chance. Jews wield massive influence in the USA. Every single President in modern times has sucked circumcised dick. One of Obama's first Presidential acts was to prostrate before AIPAC. Hillary threatened to "annihilate" every man, woman and child in Iran for them. Goldman Sachs and their alumni practically run the country. It's not even a secret.


OMG JOOZ!
 
2009-12-20 10:05:03 PM
Degree Absolute: The guy who said "meh" was spot on.

So if, for example, the Taliban was doing this to American soldiers, you'd say "meh"?
 
2009-12-20 10:05:14 PM
RanDomino

In March, an American protesting the construction of the Wall through the West Bank was shot in the head with a tear gas canister... Israel declared it an 'act of war' and, therefore, not eligible for investigation. Meanwhile, he's lost most of his cognitive functions and is basically a vegetable. Israel routinely fires live ammunition at innocent Palestinians and peaceful Palestinian protests (which are completely ignored by the American media even as it says they should protest instead of using violence).

You do know who owns and operates "American" media, right?

/just sayin'
 
2009-12-20 10:05:35 PM
RanDomino: Israel routinely fires live ammunition at innocent Palestinians and peaceful Palestinian protests (which are completely ignored by the American media even as it says they should protest instead of using violence).

mypetjawa.mu.nu

blog.camera.org

www.thejerusalemgiftshop.com

passtheammo.com

farm1.static.flickr.com

Those poor peaceful protesters.
 
2009-12-20 10:07:02 PM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2009-12-20 10:07:35 PM
Suede head: Mengele-like behavior. The Israelis are the text-book example of the abused child growing up to be an abuser.

Yeah dead people is like injecting dye into twins' eyeballs to see if you can change their color.

/It doesn't even work.
 
2009-12-20 10:08:34 PM
Swampthing in Korea: Israel did nothing. It was one guy who was prosecuted and dismissed from his post.

Yup. One guy. One guy who happened to be the director of Israel's National Institute of Forensic Medicine. And he wasn't prosecuted. He wasn't even charged with any crimes.
 
2009-12-20 10:10:47 PM
Weaver95: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: Meh.

This is totally a shocking reaction coming from you.

it's not like I can do anything about it.


"Meh" generally connotes indifference and boredom. For example, unless you're a complete sociopath, you wouldn't say 'meh' upon seeing someone fall from a window, even though you couldn't do anything to about it.
 
2009-12-20 10:11:21 PM
Axias: China Still does it, except they keep their 'falun gong worshippers' alive until someone needs the organ.. They are all tissue-matched and ready for your needs.

Israel saying, "No we didn't", and now recanting "Yeah, we did it" should give you accurate insight as to 'how they roll'.

If these examples of inhumanity aren't cassus belli, then there are none. Instead, we'll see billions of our tax dollars go to both countrys.

/expect to see this story worsen, as you can't really harvest from dead people, which blows a big hole in their latest story.


No. What Israel is admitting to is not seeking permission for harvesting. That's a *VERY* different matter than killing people for organs!

I'm not going to object to what Israel did because I think it's pretty close to how things should work. There should be a presumption that in the absence of evidence to the contrary that anything useful for transplant can be harvested. Too many lives are lost because they can't get permission in time.

RanDomino: BarackHusseinObama
i46.tinypic.com

In March, an American protesting the construction of the Wall through the West Bank was shot in the head with a tear gas canister... Israel declared it an 'act of war' and, therefore, not eligible for investigation. Meanwhile, he's lost most of his cognitive functions and is basically a vegetable. Israel routinely fires live ammunition at innocent Palestinians and peaceful Palestinian protests (which are completely ignored by the American media even as it says they should protest instead of using violence).


You realize those "peaceful" activities generally include throwing stones or worse?
 
2009-12-20 10:11:36 PM
loki see loki do: Suede head: Mengele-like behavior. The Israelis are the text-book example of the abused child growing up to be an abuser.

Yeah dead people is like injecting dye into twins' eyeballs to see if you can change their color.

/It doesn't even work.


whut?
http://tinyurl.com/ylmryqg
(copy and paste, PNSFW)
 
2009-12-20 10:12:33 PM
www.worldproutassembly.org

Those poor peaceful protesters.

Those poor peaceful tanks.
 
2009-12-20 10:12:34 PM
Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.
 
2009-12-20 10:13:46 PM
gorgor: > pic

I admire your work. Let me ask you, how do you know? Do your ears burn? Does your palm itch? How do you know the time is right for gorgor?
 
2009-12-20 10:15:07 PM
Shatner's Bassoon: Swampthing in Korea: Israel did nothing. It was one guy who was prosecuted and dismissed from his post.

Yup. One guy. One guy who happened to be the director of Israel's National Institute of Forensic Medicine. And he wasn't prosecuted. He wasn't even charged with any crimes.


Uh, he was prosecuted. He pled guilty in exchange for a plea deal. He was dismissed as director of the institute.
 
2009-12-20 10:15:55 PM
I love how when the claim (probably ridiculous about killing pal's to harvest organs) was made, it was given the immediate Godwin shutdown about it being antisemitic.

Just like when anyone protests what the Israeli gov't does. I mean, all western countries share some of the blame for their plight in WW2 (noone really able or willing to take them in when the Germans wanted them gone). But enough is enough. I'm sick and tired of hearing B'Nai Brith make claims against protestors saying they're antisemitic.
 
2009-12-20 10:17:04 PM
meekychuppet:

Wrong Voyager aliens, if you're going for what I think you are.
 
2009-12-20 10:19:25 PM
Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.


So that makes it okay?
 
2009-12-20 10:20:27 PM
studebaker hoch: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Those poor peaceful tanks.


upcoming FAIL.


/it's not a symbol of defiance, it's a symbol of bad parenting.
 
2009-12-20 10:21:09 PM
Loren: No. What Israel is admitting to is not seeking permission for harvesting. That's a *VERY* different matter than killing people for organs!

I'm not going to object to what Israel did because I think it's pretty close to how things should work. There should be a presumption that in the absence of evidence to the contrary that anything useful for transplant can be harvested. Too many lives are lost because they can't get permission in time.


There are very good reasons why we require permission before harvesting organs, and why it's considered a horrible human rights abuse not to. One of those reasons is to ensure that there is no temptation to kill people for their organs. So even if it's true that all they did was take organs without permission, they have brought the accusation of killing people intentionally for their organs on themselves. It's unsurprising that people who already mistrust them would make that sort of accusation, given such a horrendous ethical breach.
 
2009-12-20 10:21:15 PM
DNRTFA, but the outrage shown here is much like the Iran election stupidity. They CAN hear you, and they don't give a f*ck.

17% unemployment (per uber-conservative 60 Minutes) should be addressed before anything overseas. The violence that will be forthcoming from such horrible government mismanagement of funds and funding will make this kind of stuff pale in comparison.

But, by all means keep defending congress, Bush, and Obama. The US is the new 1980s Russia.

Thanks richie-rich conservatives, and liberal apologists. You're doing a great job, dumbf*cks. Next election-cycle, vote for the poorest (no money) candidate. That might actually work.
 
2009-12-20 10:21:19 PM
Gyrfalcon: Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.

So that makes it okay?


No, but to present it as "Israel harvests organs" is blatantly dishonest and, lets face, designed to create Anti-Israeli feeling.
 
2009-12-20 10:23:36 PM
I'd keep them alive for breeding purposes and sell their children's body parts to the highest bidder. You know Kim Jong Il, drug lords, corporate CEOs, Nancy Pelosi and the like.

When you think of it logically, it's very wasteful to be killing off good breeding stock. Never waste a good asset. You'd think the greedy Kikes would know better.

TaDa!!! My most offensive post evar!!!
 
2009-12-20 10:23:43 PM
Can't we give the Jews another place to live?

We could let them have the Dakotas for free. They could probably *buy* half of South Africa and live there in peace, with far more land and natural resources than they have now.

Why, oh why, did they have to settle in the midst of the f*cking Arabs? Couldn't somebody tell in advance that it would be like a white family trying to settle down in Compton? What did you THINK might be a likely outcome?

Did nobody consider this ahead of time?
 
2009-12-20 10:24:04 PM
Swampthing in Korea: No, but to present it as "Israel harvests organs" is blatantly dishonest and, lets face, designed to create Anti-Israeli feeling.

I agree with this. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a blatant human rights abuse that happened under their watch. (Of course, we are guilty of the same and much worse here in America.)
 
2009-12-20 10:24:39 PM
It happens (new window)

here all (new window)

the time. (new window)

again, BFD.
 
2009-12-20 10:25:05 PM
Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

In other words, parts that can be taken immediately after death. Notice no mention of kidneys, entire hearts, etc. So basically, if a recently-deceased body arrived at the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute (which some googling indicates was basically the central medical examiner's office), whether you were Palestinian OR Israeli, they took whatever they thought was needed by living people.

Which still looks bad because it is -- taking remains without permission is desecration and theft, and anyone involved should be sent to prison. But it doesn't make a case for the "ZOMG ISREAL HAD A CAMPAIN TO KILL PALESTINIANS FOR THEIR ORGANS" wharrgarbl in this thread.
 
2009-12-20 10:25:52 PM
Gyrfalcon: Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.

So that makes it okay?



Certainly not. But a lot of folks here seem to believe that this was some sort of official policy of the Israeli gov't. The thread here is chock full of posters using this asshat as some sort of proxy for all of Israeli society.

It's a little like posting a story about Bernie Madoff and then talking about how all Jews (or Americans. or New Yorkers. or Chairmen of NASDAQ) have tendencies toward running Ponzi schemes.
 
2009-12-20 10:26:12 PM
Israel has had a shameful history of disregard for Jewish law in the handling of cadavers, and these acts were an extension of that attitude. To the dismay of their own religious citizens, for decades Israeli hospitals routinely autopsied every body, in violation of Jewish law that holds that except in the case where life can be saved, autopsy is forbidden. This practice was only ended after it was exposed to the general public, embarrassing the state into discontinuing this disrespect for their own religion. It seems to me that harvesting organs from cadavers is the next logical step if you're already disregarding the citizenry's wishes and have the body under the knife. (Organ donation is legal under traditional Jewish law--again, where a life can be saved; sight is equivalent to life in this instance so corneas are also fair game). The logical leap from cadaver dissection and organ recovery without seeking prior permission to deliberate organ theft and murder is NOT warranted by this story. To say otherwise is a distortion and a libel, pure and simple.
 
2009-12-20 10:27:12 PM
Crosshair
Those poor peaceful protesters.

Congratulations, you've proven that Palestinian militants exist!


Loren
You realize those "peaceful" activities generally include throwing stones or worse?

Oh no, not rocks! Why, they could put someone's eye out!


Swampthing in Korea
Does anyone even read my posts?

No.
 
2009-12-20 10:27:15 PM
Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.

pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others without the consent of their families

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."


Yep, sounds exactly like it was one lonely guy alright.
 
2009-12-20 10:27:37 PM
Wouldn't that fall under the no-mutilation-of-the-dead clause of the Geneva Convention?
 
2009-12-20 10:27:46 PM
Its not a 'human rights' issue if they are dead.

Stop using that ridiculous phrase.

As if any nation has ever given diddly farking shiat about human rights.
 
2009-12-20 10:28:06 PM
studebaker hoch: Why, oh why, did they have to settle in the midst of the f*cking Arabs?

between 1880 and 1948, many locations were considered to solve "the jewish question". no place had really been worked out by the 1930s when jewish immigration to palestine really ramped up. coincidentally, a lot of the jews in their seventies in israel don't have much family out of the country. can't really put my finger on it.
 
2009-12-20 10:29:17 PM
shiat like this is why I don't go to Israel. Mexico is much closer.
 
2009-12-20 10:29:25 PM
TFA: "in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."

Headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs"

subby: "Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians "

Nope. No bias there.
 
2009-12-20 10:29:50 PM
loki see loki do: As if any nation has ever given diddly farking shiat about human rights.

This.
 
2009-12-20 10:29:56 PM
This story is LIES lies lies lies.

Jews are GOOD good good good

Palestinians are BAD bad bad bad

This is ANTI-SEMITISM anti-semitism anti-semitism anti-semitism

Palestinians are TERRORISTS terrorists terrorists terrorists

I support Jews and ISRAEL Israel Israel Israel
 
2009-12-20 10:30:41 PM
Oh shiat. Forgot to turn on subliminal mode.

Mods, please delete my previous post.

Thanks!
 
2009-12-20 10:30:54 PM
pup.socket: Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.

pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others without the consent of their families

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Yep, sounds exactly like it was one lonely guy alright.


One guy was organizing it. There were others involved under him, but it was not done with official sanction.
 
2009-12-20 10:31:48 PM
why does America suck israel's cock?
 
2009-12-20 10:32:03 PM
Anti-semite!!!!!

i777.photobucket.com
 
2009-12-20 10:32:16 PM
Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Good point. Those four pictures are clearly representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. You've opened my eyes. All the Palestinians definitely don't want peace, and never protest peacefully. Every Palestinian objection to Israeli action and presence is always accompanied by some sort of weapons fire.

/The people who perpetrated this organ harvest are unforgivable bastards.
 
2009-12-20 10:32:37 PM
SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Degree Absolute: The guy who said "meh" was spot on.

So if, for example, the Taliban was doing this to American soldiers, you'd say "meh"?


"Meh" is my stock response for idiotic hypotheticals, so yes.
 
2009-12-20 10:33:06 PM
Babwa Wawa: Gyrfalcon: Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.

So that makes it okay?


Certainly not. But a lot of folks here seem to believe that this was some sort of official policy of the Israeli gov't. The thread here is chock full of posters using this asshat as some sort of proxy for all of Israeli society.

It's a little like posting a story about Bernie Madoff and then talking about how all Jews (or Americans. or New Yorkers. or Chairmen of NASDAQ) have tendencies toward running Ponzi schemes.


If you said all Chairmen of NASDAQ you'd probably not be far off...

Part of the problem is, that the Israeli government has done so many things in the past, then pulled the "anti-semite" card when anyone calls them on it, something like this sounds troublingly possible. When it's known, for instance, that the Israeli government has built a wall with checkpoints that deliberately restrict Palestinian transit between Palestinian neighborhoods and cause inordinate delays for even emergency services; (and regardless of whatever rationale the government may have for the checkpoints) it makes it that much easier for hate-mongering people to make inflammatory statements like "Israel is harvesting Palestinian organs" and for others to take those statements at face value.

Because as I said above, it's wrong to say Israel does anything wrong--even when they do.
 
2009-12-20 10:33:20 PM
AC21365: Came for Vidiians, leaving with an empty fee.. OH GOD THEY STOLE MY KIDNEY

Look upthread, buhbula.

/And after I tried so hard.

Mnemia: meekychuppet:

Wrong Voyager aliens, if you're going for what I think you are.


Yep. Them is Kazon. They roam the Delta Quadrant looking for hair conditioner.
 
2009-12-20 10:33:42 PM
Just maybe, because of this program, a few Jews view Palestinians differently.
 
2009-12-20 10:34:08 PM
FTA: The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs - a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".



Israel could nuke this shiat out of Lebanon with absolutely no provocation, and they wouldn't bat an eye at calling anyone who disagrees with their action "antisemetic." This tactic was tiresome two decades ago, but Israel insists on continuing to play that card because they know that were it not for the specter of the holocaust and their policy of constantly reminding the world that some Austrian nutjob killed a bunch of them over half a century ago, no industrialized nation in the world would put up with the crap they pull.

Look, this has nothing to do with Jews or the Jewish faith. It is all about the policies of a particular government that has shown itself time and time again to be no better than the one that tried to have them exterminated. Israel has been conducting a long-term campaign of genocide against the Palestinian people, and the only thing that seperates them from the Nazis is that Israel is being a bit less obvious about their intentions.
 
2009-12-20 10:34:34 PM
Farker T: This story is LIES lies lies lies.

Jews are GOOD good good good

Palestinians are BAD bad bad bad

This is ANTI-SEMITISM anti-semitism anti-semitism anti-semitism

Palestinians are TERRORISTS terrorists terrorists terrorists

I support Jews and ISRAEL Israel Israel Israel


This would have been great if I was listening to Echo and the Bunnymen. Or if I was in an echo chamber but I don't got one of those.
 
2009-12-20 10:34:53 PM
This thread is beyond trolltastic, no thanks to The Guardian.

The doctor in question did this organ trafficking using the dead bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians, and God knows who else.

The first criminal complaints were from the families of dead Israeli soldiers in the late 1990s.

As has been said above, he was fired from his leadership post around 4 or 5 years ago. Perhaps what the Israeli government should have done differently was strip him of any medical titles or any affiliation with the medical center.

Plenty of Israelis are pissed at him, too.

The anti-Israel whargarbble in this this thread, fueled by The Guardian's misrepresentation of what the facts are, is just pathetic.
 
2009-12-20 10:35:01 PM
proteus_b

between 1880 and 1948, many locations were considered to solve "the jewish question". no place had really been worked out by the 1930s when jewish immigration to palestine really ramped up. coincidentally, a lot of the jews in their seventies in israel don't have much family out of the country. can't really put my finger on it.

Inertia is a powerful thing...if I lived in a place all my life, I very well my consider it home.

My question is...didn't somebody at some point think that it was like putting cats and dogs together? That no matter how hard you try, they will always be cats and dogs, that it can't work?

My fear is that the solution to giving the Jews a home right where we did was in fact the lighting of the fuse to World War III.
 
2009-12-20 10:35:15 PM
JerkyMeat: why does America suck israel's cock?

Because it's circumcized and doesn't smell all smeggy?
 
2009-12-20 10:36:06 PM
I want a new liver, where do I sign up or is only for jews?
 
2009-12-20 10:36:25 PM
studebaker hoch: Can't we give the Jews another place to live?

We could let them have the Dakotas for free. They could probably *buy* half of South Africa and live there in peace, with far more land and natural resources than they have now.

Why, oh why, did they have to settle in the midst of the f*cking Arabs? Couldn't somebody tell in advance that it would be like a white family trying to settle down in Compton? What did you THINK might be a likely outcome?
Did nobody consider this ahead of time?


The Dakotas, right. The same Dakotas that we stole from the Native Americans? The Dakota tribe's land? That'd be fair.

By contrast, dig a hole anywhere in the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean and you find Jewish archeology. It is their historic land. In 1929, there were only 600,000 people in all of Palestine (I've seen the original British census documents), divided roughly equally between Jews, nomadic Arabs, and Christians. Most of the Palestinians now trying to destroy Israel moved there in the '30s through '60's looking for work.
 
2009-12-20 10:37:03 PM
loki see loki do
funny
 
2009-12-20 10:37:54 PM
crispyone: Farker T: This story is LIES lies lies lies.

Jews are GOOD good good good

Palestinians are BAD bad bad bad

This is ANTI-SEMITISM anti-semitism anti-semitism anti-semitism

Palestinians are TERRORISTS terrorists terrorists terrorists

I support Jews and ISRAEL Israel Israel Israel

This would have been great if I was listening to Echo and the Bunnymen. Or if I was in an echo chamber but I don't got one of those.


Damn you for quoting me!

Mods, please delete this post AND the post I'm responding to.

QUICKLY
, before more idiots reply!!!
 
2009-12-20 10:38:03 PM
100 Watt Walrus: Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Good point. Those four pictures are clearly representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. You've opened my eyes. All the Palestinians definitely don't want peace, and never protest peacefully. Every Palestinian objection to Israeli action and presence is always accompanied by some sort of weapons fire.

/The people who perpetrated this organ harvest are unforgivable bastards.


Oh for farks sake. Unforgivable bastards?
They probably saved some people's lives or eyesight, the monsters.

/you unforgiving bastard
 
2009-12-20 10:38:20 PM
Gyrfalcon: Part of the problem is, that the Israeli government has done so many things in the past, then pulled the "anti-semite" card when anyone calls them on it, something like this sounds troublingly possible. When it's known, for instance, that the Israeli government has built a wall with checkpoints that deliberately restrict Palestinian transit between Palestinian neighborhoods and cause inordinate delays for even emergency services; (and regardless of whatever rationale the government may have for the checkpoints) it makes it that much easier for hate-mongering people to make inflammatory statements like "Israel is harvesting Palestinian organs" and for others to take those statements at face value.

Because as I said above, it's wrong to say Israel does anything wrong--even when they do.


When the activities of private citizens are represented as official policy of the Israeli government, the argument that it could be motivated by anti-semitism is plausible.

At the very least, this type of mis-attribution does not help those who want to change the more reprehensible policies that the Israeli government pursues.
 
2009-12-20 10:38:47 PM
lisarenee3505: Look, this has nothing to do with Jews or the Jewish faith. It is all about the policies of a particular government that has shown itself time and time again to be no better than the one that tried to have them exterminated. Israel has been conducting a long-term campaign of genocide against the Palestinian people, and the only thing that seperates them from the Nazis is that Israel is being a bit less obvious about their intentions.

Half of my family are Jews and none of them support Israel in any way. It's not anti-Jew to hate Israel. The right-wingers in Israel are about as batshiat crazy as the craziest Islamic militants.
 
2009-12-20 10:39:59 PM
loki see loki do: JerkyMeat: why does America suck israel's cock?

Because it's circumcized and doesn't smell all smeggy?


Guess we'll have to take your word for that.
 
2009-12-20 10:40:06 PM
JerkyMeat: why does America suck israel's cock?

We like cut?
 
2009-12-20 10:40:22 PM
lisarenee3505: FTA: The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs - a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".



Israel could nuke this shiat out of Lebanon with absolutely no provocation, and they wouldn't bat an eye at calling anyone who disagrees with their action "antisemetic." This tactic was tiresome two decades ago, but Israel insists on continuing to play that card because they know that were it not for the specter of the holocaust and their policy of constantly reminding the world that some Austrian nutjob killed a bunch of them over half a century ago, no industrialized nation in the world would put up with the crap they pull.

Look, this has nothing to do with Jews or the Jewish faith. It is all about the policies of a particular government that has shown itself time and time again to be no better than the one that tried to have them exterminated. Israel has been conducting a long-term campaign of genocide against the Palestinian people, and the only thing that seperates them from the Nazis is that Israel is being a bit less obvious about their intentions.


Funny, it's the Palestinian Charter that calls for the eradication of all Jews in the world. Read it yourself.

The Palestinian birth rate is one of the highest in the world, and they boast of using their bedrooms as a weapon against Israel. so genocide? Not so much.
 
2009-12-20 10:41:17 PM
heyheyjerky: I want a new liver, where do I sign up or is only for jews?

Get in line behind me, mate.
Here, have a drink while we wait.

/*hic*
 
2009-12-20 10:41:32 PM
geedavey

The Dakotas, right. The same Dakotas that we stole from the Native Americans? The Dakota tribe's land? That'd be fair.

We used to keep slaves too, that doesn't mean we'd do the same thing today.

This is NOW, in the current historical context.

We effed up royally. We would never do it again.
 
2009-12-20 10:41:58 PM
loki see loki do: 100 Watt Walrus: Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Good point. Those four pictures are clearly representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. You've opened my eyes. All the Palestinians definitely don't want peace, and never protest peacefully. Every Palestinian objection to Israeli action and presence is always accompanied by some sort of weapons fire.

/The people who perpetrated this organ harvest are unforgivable bastards.

Oh for farks sake. Unforgivable bastards?
They probably saved some people's lives or eyesight, the monsters.

/you unforgiving bastard


Farking ghoul.

Kosher ghoul, no doubt.
 
2009-12-20 10:42:04 PM
loki see loki do: 100 Watt Walrus: Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Good point. Those four pictures are clearly representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. You've opened my eyes. All the Palestinians definitely don't want peace, and never protest peacefully. Every Palestinian objection to Israeli action and presence is always accompanied by some sort of weapons fire.

/The people who perpetrated this organ harvest are unforgivable bastards.

Oh for farks sake. Unforgivable bastards?
They probably saved some people's lives or eyesight, the monsters.

/you unforgiving bastard


Since Israeli hospitals are famous for treating anyone no matter whether they are Arab or Jew; and since Hamas famously prevented wounded Gazans from travelling to Israel to get medical help, chances are that some of those lives and eyes saved were Palestinian.
 
2009-12-20 10:43:17 PM
As a Jew, I often feel that Israel does things that are at best ethically questionable and at worst war crimes. I suspect no one's going to care about that.

You're going to have one side that will say that this confirms every negative suspicion they've ever held about Jews. Never mind that the average American Ashkenazi Jew has about as much in common with an Israeli sabra as a gladiator has with someone who's played a gladiator on TV... Jews are all blood-suckers because everything bad an Israeli does shows exactly how every Jew REALLY IS. They'll scream about Khazars and Leon Trotsky and blood libels and suggest that a) the Holocaust never happened; and b) anyway, the Jews had it coming.

The other side will compare Palestinians, including innocent women and children, to wild animals and will attempt to silence any who criticize Israeli human rights violations by throwing out the anti-Semitism card. They'll throw up pictures of Yasser Arafat and Osama Bin Laden and claim that the United States somehow has no choice because we're both in a war against Iran/Arabs/Islam/whatever.

Because I am a Jew that rejects unconditional Zionist loyalty, I'll get it from both sides.
 
2009-12-20 10:43:18 PM
NightOwl2255: JerkyMeat: why does America suck israel's cock?

We like cut?


Cut-N-Runny.

Right? RIGHT?
 
2009-12-20 10:43:25 PM
pmkk Quote 2009-12-20 10:29:25 PM
TFA: "in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."

Headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs"

subby: "Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians "

Nope. No bias there.


Came here to say THIS. All the effected groups should be outraged I guess. I imagine there are many here that just read the headline and not the article and are imagining that ZOMG Israel was intentionally killing Palestinians to harvest their organs when in fact it seems that a few pathologists were pretty much equal opportunity organ thieves in the 90's.
 
2009-12-20 10:43:42 PM
Half Witt: This thread is beyond trolltastic, no thanks to The Guardian.
The doctor in question did this organ trafficking using the dead bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians, and God knows who else....The anti-Israel whargarbble in this this thread, fueled by The Guardian's misrepresentation of what the facts are, is just pathetic.


To be fair, I read the article carefully after I looked at the thread, and I didn't feel much whargarblll from The Guardian. Just from here.
 
2009-12-20 10:43:52 PM
Farker T: Farking ghoul.

Kosher ghoul, no doubt.


C'mon, now, tell us how you really feel. We're all chums here.
 
2009-12-20 10:44:12 PM
Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.


It is not like any of the terrorist sympathizers in this thread haven't used the same exact argument you are using when double agents/Israel firsters like yourself condemn all Arabs/Jordanians/"Palestinians" for attacks on delicious Sbarro chains and the "art" exhibits dedicated to these attacks.
 
2009-12-20 10:44:32 PM
studebaker hoch: geedavey

The Dakotas, right. The same Dakotas that we stole from the Native Americans? The Dakota tribe's land? That'd be fair.

We used to keep slaves too, that doesn't mean we'd do the same thing today.

This is NOW, in the current historical context.

We effed up royally. We would never do it again.


Oh, so you're saying once land has been taken from the natives fair and square, we should consider it a done deal? In that case, why are we even considering a Palestinian state in the Middle East?
 
2009-12-20 10:44:47 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

Hullo, we're teh Joos. We're here for your liver.
 
2009-12-20 10:45:04 PM
isiria.files.wordpress.com

Surprise Buttsecks Israel!

/Nothing to see here, move along, move along.
 
2009-12-20 10:45:23 PM
Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

I like your reasoning sir. A few fighters attempt to blend into crowds.

Therefore, ALL crowds are guilty.

Just like Iman Darweesh Al Hams. A 13-year-old girl carrying nothing but textbooks who was shot by the IDF, and then, while still alive, had a pistol magazine emptied into her body.

She wasn't surrounded by any militia fighters. But she was guilty, because you can find pictures on the internet.

Let's see what the Commander of that operation has to say:

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

Poor, poor guilty Palestinians.

(Your logic is abhorrent. What you've done is equivalent of posting a picture of a Jewish murderer and using it as an attempt to justify the Holocaust. What's worse is that a child knows better than to assume that just because some X possess quality Y does not mean all Xs possess quality Y. You're either dissembling, dishonest liar that deliberately obfuscates murder despite the suffering of innocent life to advance a partisan agenda, or you're outright retarded and can't understand the difference between some Palestinians and ALL Palestinians. From my experience with "GO GO ISRAEL" cheerleaders, you're likely both)

Should I find the video of the father cradling his dead son as they're pinned down by AR fire? Would you like to be responsible for the country you love, regardless of its actions, being made to look worse?
 
2009-12-20 10:46:15 PM
Andrael: So they once harvested corneas etc from everyone (not just Palestinians).

Looking for the issue here. That is becoming standard in many countries as we speak. There is a movement in the US to do the same. I disagree with it, but this isn't an "Israel vs Palestinian" issue.


That's not trolly enough for fark.com. It's been too long since the last Israel hate thread for the fark lefties and assorted truther nuts.

This happened at one hospital, done to both Palestinians and Israelis, and is damn near procedure. The only difference from what is done in most countries is the issue of permission. But for all the truthy lefties, ZOMG JEWS ARE KILLING PALESTINIANS TO GET ORGANS.
 
2009-12-20 10:46:29 PM
loki see loki do: 100 Watt Walrus: Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Good point. Those four pictures are clearly representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. You've opened my eyes. All the Palestinians definitely don't want peace, and never protest peacefully. Every Palestinian objection to Israeli action and presence is always accompanied by some sort of weapons fire.

/The people who perpetrated this organ harvest are unforgivable bastards.

Oh for farks sake. Unforgivable bastards?
They probably saved some people's lives or eyesight, the monsters.

/you unforgiving bastard


Dude, they killed Jesus and I have heard he was a genuinely nice fellow. NOthing is beneath them.
 
2009-12-20 10:46:50 PM
Of course, the key line in the story is that, regardless of who was doing the harvesting, and regardless of who they were harvesting the corneas, etc., from, he/she/they were doing it without permission of [the dead peoples'] families.

So no matter who the doctors were, who the dead people were, and when and where it was being done, it was totally unethical, completely immoral, and illegal under anybody's laws; and they should be ashamed of themselves as alleging to be medical practitioners.
 
2009-12-20 10:46:57 PM
Igor Jakovsky: pmkk Quote 2009-12-20 10:29:25 PM
TFA: "in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."

Headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs"

subby: "Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians "

Nope. No bias there.

Came here to say THIS. All the effected groups should be outraged I guess. I imagine there are many here that just read the headline and not the article and are imagining that ZOMG Israel was intentionally killing Palestinians to harvest their organs when in fact it seems that a few pathologists were pretty much equal opportunity organ thieves in the 90's.


Not ZOMG, ZOG (new window).
 
2009-12-20 10:46:59 PM
indylaw: As a Jew, I often feel that Israel does things that are at best ethically questionable and at worst war crimes. I suspect no one's going to care about that.

You're going to have one side that will say that this confirms every negative suspicion they've ever held about Jews. Never mind that the average American Ashkenazi Jew has about as much in common with an Israeli sabra as a gladiator has with someone who's played a gladiator on TV... Jews are all blood-suckers because everything bad an Israeli does shows exactly how every Jew REALLY IS. They'll scream about Khazars and Leon Trotsky and blood libels and suggest that a) the Holocaust never happened; and b) anyway, the Jews had it coming.

The other side will compare Palestinians, including innocent women and children, to wild animals and will attempt to silence any who criticize Israeli human rights violations by throwing out the anti-Semitism card. They'll throw up pictures of Yasser Arafat and Osama Bin Laden and claim that the United States somehow has no choice because we're both in a war against Iran/Arabs/Islam/whatever.

Because I am a Jew that rejects unconditional Zionist loyalty, I'll get it from both sides.


Indylaw, you may be the best hope that Judaism has.

/Serious
//Wish I wasn't
 
2009-12-20 10:47:09 PM
Degree Absolute: Swampthing in Korea: Does anyone even read my posts? This was not an offical government program, nor a policy of the army.

This was one guy, and it was not done under any authority.

It is not like any of the terrorist sympathizers in this thread haven't used the same exact argument you are using when double agents/Israel firsters like yourself condemn all Arabs/Jordanians/"Palestinians" for attacks on delicious Sbarro chains and the "art" exhibits dedicated to these attacks.


Unrelated deflection is unrelated.
 
2009-12-20 10:47:44 PM
studebaker hoch: geedavey

The Dakotas, right. The same Dakotas that we stole from the Native Americans? The Dakota tribe's land? That'd be fair.

We used to keep slaves too, that doesn't mean we'd do the same thing today.

This is NOW, in the current historical context.

We effed up royally. We would never do it again.


Well no, we already have all their shiat.
 
2009-12-20 10:48:02 PM
indylaw: Because I am a Jew that rejects unconditional Zionist loyalty, I'll get it from both sides.

No, you'll get it from the extremists on both sides. And if you're pissing off the extremists then you're doing something right.
 
2009-12-20 10:49:03 PM
geedavey

Oh, so you're saying once land has been taken from the natives fair and square, we should consider it a done deal? In that case, why are we even considering a Palestinian state in the Middle East?

Your strawman is showing.

I don't think we stole it fair and square. I think we stole it in a genocidal war along with some legitimate treaties. They key thing to remember is that we have peace with the Native Americans today, and they in fact get a lot of government help with things like health care and higher education.

We know we effed up.

/I *know* we would never consider such a thing today.
 
2009-12-20 10:49:22 PM
spmkk: TFA: "in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."

Headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs"

subby: "Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians "

Nope. No bias there.


I liked that part too. But hey, it is far easier to beat up a Strawman than to make a real argument.
 
2009-12-20 10:49:25 PM
jerry2a: indylaw: Because I am a Jew that rejects unconditional Zionist loyalty, I'll get it from both sides.

No, you'll get it from the extremists on both sides. And if you're pissing off the extremists then you're doing something right.


That's a principle I try to live my life by.

Yes, I meant that those positions are extremes, not the entire sides.
 
2009-12-20 10:49:29 PM
Igor Jakovsky: pmkk Quote 2009-12-20 10:29:25 PM
TFA: "in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives."

Headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs"

subby: "Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians "

Nope. No bias there.

Came here to say THIS. All the effected groups should be outraged I guess. I imagine there are many here that just read the headline and not the article and are imagining that ZOMG Israel was intentionally killing Palestinians to harvest their organs when in fact it seems that a few pathologists were pretty much equal opportunity organ thieves in the 90's.


Quit making excuses.

Jews, especially hard-core Zionists - are SPECIESTS.

Minority rules?

As long as minority fools.

Worried?
 
2009-12-20 10:50:19 PM
jerry2a: indylaw: Because I am a Jew that rejects unconditional Zionist loyalty, I'll get it from both sides.

No, you'll get it from the extremists on both sides. And if you're pissing off the extremists then you're doing something right.


Seconded.
 
2009-12-20 10:50:50 PM
geedavey: Funny, it's the Palestinian Charter that calls for the eradication of all Jews in the world. Read it yourself.

The Palestinian birth rate is one of the highest in the world, and they boast of using their bedrooms as a weapon against Israel. so genocide? Not so much.


Clearly you have absolutely no idea of what the definition of genocide is. Go look it up, educate yourself, and open your eyes to the truth.
 
2009-12-20 10:51:22 PM
Gyrfalcon: Of course, the key line in the story is that, regardless of who was doing the harvesting, and regardless of who they were harvesting the corneas, etc., from, he/she/they were doing it without permission of [the dead peoples'] families.

So no matter who the doctors were, who the dead people were, and when and where it was being done, it was totally unethical, completely immoral, and illegal under anybody's laws; and they should be ashamed of themselves as alleging to be medical practitioners.


Um, it was expressly legal until not that long ago in many states.
See me links above.
 
2009-12-20 10:51:35 PM
If you look at USA maps today, the Native Americans still have quite a bit of land.

There are reservations all over Arizona. I see them first hand.
 
2009-12-20 10:53:17 PM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

I like your reasoning sir. A few fighters attempt to blend into crowds.

Therefore, ALL crowds are guilty.

Just like Iman Darweesh Al Hams. A 13-year-old girl carrying nothing but textbooks who was shot by the IDF, and then, while still alive, had a pistol magazine emptied into her body.

She wasn't surrounded by any militia fighters. But she was guilty, because you can find pictures on the internet.

Let's see what the Commander of that operation has to say:

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

Poor, poor guilty Palestinians.

(Your logic is abhorrent. What you've done is equivalent of posting a picture of a Jewish murderer and using it as an attempt to justify the Holocaust. What's worse is that a child knows better than to assume that just because some X possess quality Y does not mean all Xs possess quality Y. You're either dissembling, dishonest liar that deliberately obfuscates murder despite the suffering of innocent life to advance a partisan agenda, or you're outright retarded and can't understand the difference between some Palestinians and ALL Palestinians. From my experience with "GO GO ISRAEL" cheerleaders, you're likely both)

Should I find the video of the father cradling his dead son as they're pinned down by AR fire? Would you like to be responsible for the country you love, regardless of its actions, being made to look worse?


Hi Dr. PhD!
 
2009-12-20 10:53:42 PM
loki see loki do: JerkyMeat: why does America suck israel's cock?

Because it's circumcized and doesn't smell all smeggy?


I think it's because they are secretly supplying our leaders with Palestinian body parts. I mean seriously, if you needed a life saving transplant, wouldn't you suck any cock that needed sucking to get that body part? Sure you just sucked a Jewish cock but at least you are alive to regret it!

Really if someone put a gun to your head and said, "Suck my cock or I'll kill you", you all know you'd become the reincarnation of Linda Lovelace. You'd go all Lil' Wayne and lick it like a lollipop.
 
2009-12-20 10:54:04 PM
studebaker hoch: If you look at USA maps today, the Native Americans still have quite a bit of land.

Pretty farking generous of us to let them keep some of their land if you ask me. Somebody robbed my house once and took everything except for some old clothes and I tell you, I was awfully grateful they left them for me.
 
2009-12-20 10:54:22 PM
100 Watt Walrus: The people who perpetrated this organ harvest are unforgivable bastards.

If you read TFA you would realize that this was not organ harvesting. It was harvesting of tissue and there is a BIG difference. The SINGLE person who did it was charged, accepted a plea agreement, and was fired. They were not harvesting organs and they were not killing people for them.

100 Watt Walrus: Good point. Those four pictures are clearly representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. You've opened my eyes. All the Palestinians definitely don't want peace, and never protest peacefully. Every Palestinian objection to Israeli action and presence is always accompanied by some sort of weapons fire.

If you think that is good, check out the other staged events the Palestinians put up to make Israel look bad.

Pallywood (new window) Video 18 minutes.

Anyway, my point is that the Palestinians are their own worst enemies. Much like the US government they continue the same failed policies for decades. They could have had their own country several times, but instead of getting something, they choose to have nothing and continue to beat their heads against a wall.

If the Palestinians wanted to get more sympathy they would stop lobbing rockets into Israel at random, suicide bombings, and stop with the faked photo ops. They aren't going to defeat Israel militarily, the last 40 years has shown that, they need to go the MLK route and then if Israel still beats on them then I might start to care about them. Of course this won't happen since the Arab states love using the Palestinians as their pawns and wouldn't allow such a thing.

Israel is far from perfect and has done lots of stupid things, but they are showing levels of restraint other countries in the wold would not tolerate. An Arab country would have probably slaughtered the whole lot of them and as bad as it sounds, it would have at least stopped the shelling and suicide bombings.
 
2009-12-20 10:55:10 PM
Farker T: Hi Dr. PhD!

Hi Known Liar!
 
2009-12-20 10:55:16 PM
Donald_McRonald: Farker T

I love you to, McRonald.

Can I has 24 hour breakfasts?

Ghoulish breakfasts?
 
2009-12-20 10:55:38 PM
There are still organs big enough to take after the Palestinians are through using them?
 
2009-12-20 10:56:57 PM
Crosshair: An Arab country would have probably slaughtered the whole lot of them and as bad as it sounds, it would have at least stopped the shelling and suicide bombings.

Already happened. Google Black September.
 
2009-12-20 10:57:24 PM
loki see loki do: Gyrfalcon: Of course, the key line in the story is that, regardless of who was doing the harvesting, and regardless of who they were harvesting the corneas, etc., from, he/she/they were doing it without permission of [the dead peoples'] families.

So no matter who the doctors were, who the dead people were, and when and where it was being done, it was totally unethical, completely immoral, and illegal under anybody's laws; and they should be ashamed of themselves as alleging to be medical practitioners.

Um, it was expressly legal until not that long ago in many states.
See me links above.


Doesn't detract a thing from what I said. A doctor who soothes his ethical lapse by saying "Oh, but the law says I can" has violated his Hippocratic Oath, and is just a whore with a scalpel.
 
2009-12-20 10:57:30 PM
loki see loki do

Well no, we already have all their shiat.

And we also still have THEM.

All those black people in the USA? Guess who they descended from?

They're all full US citizens today.

/one of the reasons the Mexicans hate 'em.
 
2009-12-20 10:59:45 PM
crispyone:

Really if someone put a gun to your head and said, "Suck my cock or I'll kill you", you all know you'd become the reincarnation of Linda Lovelace. i>.


Bullshiat.
I at least want a nice dinner.
This isn't 'Nam, there are rules.
 
2009-12-20 10:59:53 PM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Hi Dr. PhD!

Hi Known Liar!


You mean you're neither a 'Dr.' nor a 'PhD'?

Thanks for the admission.
 
2009-12-20 10:59:57 PM
studebaker hoch: If you look at USA maps today, the Native Americans still have quite a bit of land.

There are reservations all over Arizona. I see them first hand.


Are you kidding? Here's a map of the reservations in the United States. There are hundreds of reservations, but the vast majority of them are tiny little swathes of land.

The Native Americans have exactly dick in terms of land.
 
2009-12-20 11:00:02 PM
jerry2

Pretty farking generous of us to let them keep some of their land if you ask me. Somebody robbed my house once and took everything except for some old clothes and I tell you, I was awfully grateful they left them for me.

There is no attempt being made to justify this today. We know it was wrong, end of story.

We don't want to see it happen anywhere else!

Israel sometimes will point out the US theft of Indian lands, and say "SEE SEE SEE!!!", where we try to tell them, gently, that such things are not cool today.

They were never cool. We effed up. We cannot undo the past. We can try for a more sane future.
 
2009-12-20 11:00:31 PM
studebaker hoch: If you look at USA maps today, the Native Americans still have quite a bit of land.

There are reservations all over Arizona. I see them first hand.


No kidding. About half of Oklahoma where I live belongs to various Nations, most notably the Chickasaw. God bless those Native Americans and their wonderful casinos :) If it weren't for them, there'd be almost no reason for any out-stater to ever come to this crappy, forsaken part of the country.
 
2009-12-20 11:01:14 PM
Farker T: crispyone: Farker T: This story is LIES lies lies lies.

Jews are GOOD good good good

Palestinians are BAD bad bad bad

This is ANTI-SEMITISM anti-semitism anti-semitism anti-semitism

Palestinians are TERRORISTS terrorists terrorists terrorists

I support Jews and ISRAEL Israel Israel Israel

This would have been great if I was listening to Echo and the Bunnymen. Or if I was in an echo chamber but I don't got one of those.

Damn you for quoting me!

Mods, please delete this post AND the post I'm responding to.

QUICKLY, before more idiots reply!!!


Or do you mean more fans of the Thompson Twins? Lies, lies, lies, yeah!!!! They're gonna get you!!
 
2009-12-20 11:01:48 PM
I am SHOCKED! Ha, if these guys weren't Arab then people might care but the racism from the US media has allowed people like this to be brutally oppressed without a bat of an eyelash. I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world. That is what happens when NeoCons run the govt.
 
2009-12-20 11:02:43 PM
TheJoe03: if these guys weren't Arab then people might care

RTFA.
 
2009-12-20 11:03:10 PM
Farker T: Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Hi Dr. PhD!

Hi Known Liar!

You mean you're neither a 'Dr.' nor a 'PhD'?

Thanks for the admission.


Laffin' @ the liar.
 
2009-12-20 11:04:12 PM
studebaker hoch: There is no attempt being made to justify this today. We know it was wrong, end of story.

We don't want to see it happen anywhere else!

Israel sometimes will point out the US theft of Indian lands, and say "SEE SEE SEE!!!", where we try to tell them, gently, that such things are not cool today.

They were never cool. We effed up. We cannot undo the past. We can try for a more sane future.


Oh I agree. What's done is done and I'm not suggesting it's realistic to give it back. It sounded to me like you were using "they still have some land" as a defense. We screwed them, and except for a few casinos they're still being screwed...just leave it at that. And I agree 100% that we shouldn't be supporting Israel unconditionally. My apologies if I misunderstood your post.
 
2009-12-20 11:04:20 PM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Hi Dr. PhD!

Hi Known Liar!

You mean you're neither a 'Dr.' nor a 'PhD'?

Thanks for the admission.

Laffin' @ the liar.


I bet your name isn't even Mojo.
 
2009-12-20 11:04:51 PM
studebaker hoch:
All those black people in the USA? Guess who they descended from?

They're all full US citizens today.


We effed up royally. We would never do it again.

/I keed, I keed.
 
2009-12-20 11:05:23 PM
JerkyMeat
why does America suck israel's cock?

Because 40 years ago the US needed Israel as a counter to Soviet influence in the region.


lisarenee3505
Israel is being a bit less obvious about their intentions.

The thing is, they're not, at all. Israel's fascists (practically all of their political parties and a large portion of the population) want to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from the West Bank. They're not trying to hide it at all, and their actions are completely consistent with that goal.


geedavey
Most of the Palestinians now trying to destroy Israel moved there in the '30s through '60's looking for work.

I thought the line was that they moved there in the 1800s?

Funny, it's the Palestinian Charter that calls for the eradication of all Jews in the world. Read it yourself.

You mean the Hamas charter?

Man, you know it's bad when I know your lines better than you do.

The Palestinian birth rate is one of the highest in the world, and they boast of using their bedrooms as a weapon against Israel. so genocide? Not so much.

Half the Palestinian population is also in diaspora. Israel isn't trying to kill the Palestinians; it's trying to drive them out. That's ethnic cleansing.

Since Israeli hospitals are famous for treating anyone no matter whether they are Arab or Jew

as long as your ambulance makes it through the checkpoints before you die...


indylaw
You're going to have one side that will say that this confirms every negative suspicion they've ever held about Jews. ... They'll scream about Khazars and Leon Trotsky and blood libels and suggest that a) the Holocaust never happened; and b) anyway, the Jews had it coming.

"Anti-Israelis" are two camps- one that's Pro-Palestinian, and one that's Anti-Jew. The Pro-Palestinians despise the Anti-Jews. So please don't lump us in with those scumbags.
 
2009-12-20 11:05:26 PM
Facilitated by the fact that, genetically speaking, these jews and muslims are the same people. I need not point out the fact that both religions have creepily similar customs and holidays and observe the same particularly weird specific commandments from god.
 
2009-12-20 11:06:22 PM
TheJoe03: I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world

Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!
 
2009-12-20 11:07:09 PM
Donald_McRonald: TheJoe03: if these guys weren't Arab then people might care

RTFA.


Are you saying Palestinians are not part of the Arab world? The article clearly states the Israel govt harvested Palestinian organs without permission from their family. What am I missing?
 
2009-12-20 11:07:48 PM
Well that sucks but it sounds like the hospital did that to anyone they got a hold of, Palestinian and Israeli alike.

\has anyone made a video game yet about illegal organ transplants?
 
2009-12-20 11:08:23 PM
TheJoe03: Donald_McRonald: TheJoe03: if these guys weren't Arab then people might care

RTFA.

Are you saying Palestinians are not part of the Arab world? The article clearly states the Israel govt harvested Palestinian organs without permission from their family. What am I missing?


RTFA and find out.
 
2009-12-20 11:08:44 PM
cryinoutloud: Half Witt: This thread is beyond trolltastic, no thanks to The Guardian.
The doctor in question did this organ trafficking using the dead bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians, and God knows who else....The anti-Israel whargarbble in this this thread, fueled by The Guardian's misrepresentation of what the facts are, is just pathetic.

To be fair, I read the article carefully after I looked at the thread, and I didn't feel much whargarblll from The Guardian. Just from here.


I believe that is what I wrote, the whargarbll is here, and it is turbo-fueled by the Guardian's fantastic misrepresentation.

The Guardian titles this whole affair with one of the most epic yellow journalism headlines: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs." Those like yourself who took care to read the article, discover this "Israel admission" is from the very doctor the Israeli government fired 4 years ago for unauthorized organ harvesting and trafficking. The doctor's full admisision shows he did not admit to harvesting only Palestinian organs, as the title leads so many here to believe, but every organ he could use, irrespective of nationality, be it Israeli, Palestinian, Chinese or Canadian.

The Guardian is better than this.
 
2009-12-20 11:08:56 PM
If there was ever a national effort to return entire states to the Native Americans, I'd probably be OK with it. (I don't know that the Natives want the Dakotas.)

There is a significant movement now to return Hawaii to the Hawaiians, and I'm all for it.

One thing I notice on reservations...there is plenty of land. No crowding at all. It isn't like Palestine at all. Most of it is wide open and you wouldn't even know anybody lives there at all.
 
2009-12-20 11:10:29 PM
Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world

Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!


For a "developed democracy" they are very oppressive. Not too many 1st world nations that have a whole race under their control and keeps them from having any trade or success. Face facts, the Palestinians are 2nd class citizens under Israeli control. How many other democracies are doing that?
 
2009-12-20 11:10:37 PM
lisarenee3505: geedavey: Funny, it's the Palestinian Charter that calls for the eradication of all Jews in the world. Read it yourself.

The Palestinian birth rate is one of the highest in the world, and they boast of using their bedrooms as a weapon against Israel. so genocide? Not so much.

Clearly you have absolutely no idea of what the definition of genocide is. Go look it up, educate yourself, and open your eyes to the truth.


Wikipedia: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

Selected Excerpts: The Hamas Charter:

•"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him..."

Read, and learned.
 
2009-12-20 11:11:29 PM
studebaker hoch: We cannot undo the past. We can try for a more sane future.

Really? You mean, we couldn't give up huge swaths of native american land which we unethically took from them almost 200 years ago?

Well, actually, we could.
If we really felt that bad about it.
But we don't.
And we're sure as fark not gonna.

/I guess there is a time limit. Israel only has to wait another hundred fifty years, then they are cool beyond reproach.
 
2009-12-20 11:12:04 PM
One of the big reasons the Indians got Casinos?

White voters felt sorry for them.

/have asked this question to my friends.
 
2009-12-20 11:12:37 PM
Oh, and yes, I confused the Hamas Charter with the Fatah Charter. But since Hamas is now in charge of the Gaza Strip and is likely to take over the West bank as well, it's not much of a distinction.
 
2009-12-20 11:12:51 PM
TheJoe03: Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world

Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!

For a "developed democracy" they are very oppressive. Not too many 1st world nations that have a whole race under their control and keeps them from having any trade or success. Face facts, the Palestinians are 2nd class citizens under Israeli control. How many other democracies are doing that?


Yes, war is a biatch. Maybe the "Palestinians" or whatever they are calling themselves this week should consider surrendering.
 
2009-12-20 11:13:26 PM
What a sickening story, it's so obvious that the potential for crimes against humanity is high in this situation.
 
2009-12-20 11:14:37 PM
TheJoe03: What am I missing?

Basic reading comprehension would be my guess.

I suspect you'll do okay in a world where you're told what to think and given electronic moving pictures and shiny things to look at.

Hint: the article says this happened to everyone that entered the institute and that Palestinians were not singled out.

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives"
 
2009-12-20 11:15:16 PM
loki see loki do

Really? You mean, we couldn't give up huge swaths of native american land which we unethically took from them almost 200 years ago?

Well, actually, we could.
If we really felt that bad about it.
But we don't.
And we're sure as fark not gonna.

/I guess there is a time limit. Israel only has to wait another hundred fifty years, then they are cool beyond reproach.


There is no (to my knowledge) push to do this within the lower 48 states.

If there were, I'd probably be more on board than most.

/lives in Arizona.
//lots and lots of rez.
 
2009-12-20 11:15:36 PM
diddleysquat: What a sickening story, it's so obvious that the potential for crimes against humanity is high in this situation.

I thought it quite uplifting what with the failed terrorists' organs being harvested to save the lives of the people they intended to kill. Thoroughly moving. Two thumbs up.
 
2009-12-20 11:16:56 PM
geedavey
Oh, so you're saying once land has been taken from the natives fair and square, we should consider it a done deal? In that case, why are we even considering a Palestinian state in the Middle East?

Because the people whose land has been taken are still alive. of course, the genocide of Native Americans still has repercussions today which are not being addressed, but I digress- the individual Palestinians whose personal property has been stolen are alive right now. We could theoretically go around and identify specific living individuals and exactly what was stolen from them.


Crosshair
Anyway, my point is that the Palestinians are their own worst enemies. Much like the US government they continue the same failed policies for decades. They could have had their own country several times, but instead of getting something, they choose to have nothing and continue to beat their heads against a wall.

"WHY DO YOU MAKE ME HIT YOU?"

faked photo ops.

Even when they do something Ghandian, you'll just say it's a photo-op! They can't win!
 
2009-12-20 11:17:27 PM
Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world

Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!

For a "developed democracy" they are very oppressive. Not too many 1st world nations that have a whole race under their control and keeps them from having any trade or success. Face facts, the Palestinians are 2nd class citizens under Israeli control. How many other democracies are doing that?

Yes, war is a biatch. Maybe the "Palestinians" or whatever they are calling themselves this week should consider surrendering.


Even if they surrendered they would be treated just as badly. The reason they fight is because they are treated so poorly. What hope do they have for the future? Does Israel expect these people to just be cool with what happened? If Israel wants to fight forever then they should keep up their bullshiat but if they want peace then maybe they should be more civilized. So should the Palestinians but I don't blame them for being militant based on what has happened to their people. It is like the Black Panthers in a way. Can't really say that I would be against them if I was a black man in the 60's.
 
2009-12-20 11:17:55 PM
The Hawaiian thing is a handful of very very angry native decendents.

Not likely considering the bread we have invested in the place.

Although I'm sure the Japanese would like to buy it.
 
2009-12-20 11:20:21 PM
RanDomino: JerkyMeat
why does America suck israel's cock?

Because 40 years ago the US needed Israel as a counter to Soviet influence in the region.


lisarenee3505
Israel is being a bit less obvious about their intentions.

The thing is, they're not, at all. Israel's fascists (practically all of their political parties and a large portion of the population) want to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from the West Bank. They're not trying to hide it at all, and their actions are completely consistent with that goal.


geedavey
Most of the Palestinians now trying to destroy Israel moved there in the '30s through '60's looking for work.

I thought the line was that they moved there in the 1800s?

Funny, it's the Palestinian Charter that calls for the eradication of all Jews in the world. Read it yourself.

You mean the Hamas charter?

Man, you know it's bad when I know your lines better than you do.

The Palestinian birth rate is one of the highest in the world, and they boast of using their bedrooms as a weapon against Israel. so genocide? Not so much.

Half the Palestinian population is also in diaspora. Israel isn't trying to kill the Palestinians; it's trying to drive them out. That's ethnic cleansing.

Since Israeli hospitals are famous for treating anyone no matter whether they are Arab or Jew

as long as your ambulance makes it through the checkpoints before you die...


indylaw
You're going to have one side that will say that this confirms every negative suspicion they've ever held about Jews. ... They'll scream about Khazars and Leon Trotsky and blood libels and suggest that a) the Holocaust never happened; and b) anyway, the Jews had it coming.

"Anti-Israelis" are two camps- one that's Pro-Palestinian, and one that's Anti-Jew. The Pro-Palestinians despise the Anti-Jews. So please don't lump us in with those scumbags.


Haha, good one.

"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism." -MLK Jr

/whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
2009-12-20 11:20:29 PM
RoyBatty: TheJoe03: What am I missing?

Basic reading comprehension would be my guess.

I suspect you'll do okay in a world where you're told what to think and given electronic moving pictures and shiny things to look at.

Hint: the article says this happened to everyone that entered the institute and that Palestinians were not singled out.

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives"


OK, you geeky fat bastard, I just glanced over the article. I am far too lazy to read the whole thing. My bad. Still doesn't change my opinion of Israeli policy. Again, my bad.
 
2009-12-20 11:21:10 PM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Hi Dr. PhD!

Hi Known Liar!

You mean you're neither a 'Dr.' nor a 'PhD'?

Thanks for the admission.

Laffin' @ the liar.


That's the spirit!

A bit of introspection will do you good!
 
2009-12-20 11:22:50 PM
TheJoe03: Even if they surrendered they would be treated just as badly.

Oh really? Wow, I honestly did not realize that. This piece of evidence is really making me question my thinking on the entire situation. Thank you for the life-changing insight.
 
2009-12-20 11:22:56 PM
I didn't know Wurlitzer and Hammond were big in Palestine.
 
2009-12-20 11:23:34 PM
TheJoe03: RoyBatty: TheJoe03: What am I missing?

Basic reading comprehension would be my guess.

I suspect you'll do okay in a world where you're told what to think and given electronic moving pictures and shiny things to look at.

Hint: the article says this happened to everyone that entered the institute and that Palestinians were not singled out.

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives"

OK, you geeky fat bastard, I just glanced over the article. I am far too lazy to read the whole thing. My bad. Still doesn't change my opinion of Israeli policy. Again, my bad.


I'm not that fat. I am not that fat.
 
2009-12-20 11:25:29 PM
TheJoe03: Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world

Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!

For a "developed democracy" they are very oppressive. Not too many 1st world nations that have a whole race under their control and keeps them from having any trade or success. Face facts, the Palestinians are 2nd class citizens under Israeli control. How many other democracies are doing that?

Yes, war is a biatch. Maybe the "Palestinians" or whatever they are calling themselves this week should consider surrendering.

Even if they surrendered they would be treated just as badly. The reason they fight is because they are treated so poorly. What hope do they have for the future? Does Israel expect these people to just be cool with what happened? If Israel wants to fight forever then they should keep up their bullshiat but if they want peace then maybe they should be more civilized. So should the Palestinians but I don't blame them for being militant based on what has happened to their people. It is like the Black Panthers in a way. Can't really say that I would be against them if I was a black man in the 60's.


TheJoe03 why are you continuing this particular conversation thread, without responding to your involvement in the other one where it was demonstrated that you did not read the article (or lack reading comprehension). Just an acknowledgment would be ok. Right now you seem...disingenuous.
 
2009-12-20 11:25:37 PM
Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: that's very arrogant of you.

Your accusing me of arrogance for pointing out your own words? Nice.

No, i'm saying it's arrogant to assume you (or me, for that matter) have the ability to punish Israel for their actions. i'm just one guy on a random internet discussion forum. ok, and I've got a blog. But still - nothing I say will affect the world in the slightest.

I can reasonably assume to influence my local politicans. And if I worked my ass off I *might* have some small impact on state politics...but nationally? forget it. And my ability to influence the affairs of other nations is non-existent.

do what you can with what you've got. getting worked up about things you can't change will just drive you nutty. why you (and others) assume that your outrage can affect how Israel does business is entirely beyond me. It strikes me as arrogant, not to mention slightly delusional.


You know in the movie, "Shawshank's Redemption", Andy DuFrane wrote a letter per day when he wanted some kind of grievance addressed. He later said, "Next time, I'll just send two per day."

Imagine if some of these posters that feel the most harshly about some things actually started writing instead of posting to threads.

Imagine if "we" did.

Imagine if we all used the very capable methods at our fingertips to connect and contact people of like minds to discuss current political agendas and have the means to organize.

Apparently, each and every one of us typing here have the time to write or type a personal address of grievances to whomever we feel like writing or typing to.

/I just think they'll ignore it and do what they want, republican or democrat.
//lower case (r) and (d) completely and whole-heartedly meant; neither shall have my vote.
 
2009-12-20 11:27:40 PM
loki see loki do

/I guess there is a time limit. Israel only has to wait another hundred fifty years, then they are cool beyond reproach.

Not a chance in hell they will make it at the rate they're going today.

I give them 20-30 years, tops. Perhaps sooner, since there is currently a serious surplus of cash in Arab states, and a surplus of high-quality nukes in Russian states.

/All that needs to happen is for exactly 1 (one) deal to go down.
 
2009-12-20 11:28:46 PM
TheJoe03: RoyBatty: TheJoe03: What am I missing?

Basic reading comprehension would be my guess.

I suspect you'll do okay in a world where you're told what to think and given electronic moving pictures and shiny things to look at.

Hint: the article says this happened to everyone that entered the institute and that Palestinians were not singled out.

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives"

OK, you geeky fat bastard, I just glanced over the article. I am far too lazy to read the whole thing. My bad. Still doesn't change my opinion of Israeli policy. Again, my bad.


And before I posted you did respond, therefore now I am in the wrong. Anyone who is willing to admit they messed something up is OK in my book...remind me to buy you an e-beer.
 
2009-12-20 11:29:14 PM
Farker T: Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: Hi Dr. PhD!

Hi Known Liar!

You mean you're neither a 'Dr.' nor a 'PhD'?

Thanks for the admission.


That's even worse than "I know you are but what am I?"

That would have been retarded even from a five-year old.
 
2009-12-20 11:29:30 PM
studebaker hoch:

There is no (to my knowledge) push to do this within the lower 48 states.

If there were, I'd probably be more on board than most.

/lives in Arizona.
//lots and lots of rez.


Oh, I'm hip, studey, but a lot of those cats didn't really want to live in Arizona.

If we were serious, they would have large swaths where they could actually live their seminomadic lives like the old days. Or have farkin factories if they wanted. Or bigass solar farms or whatever the fark else they wanted their culture to evolve into.

Fark, I'd support it too, unless they wanted my house. But if I got fair value from the Feds, hey, take the motherfarker. I can move. And adapt. And I'm not terrible adverse to it.

I keep wondering why the rest of the middle east, rich with all that oil vs. Israel that isn;t oily rich, doesn;t step up , give the Palestinians a fair cut, and let them get on with their lives somewhere that LOOKS JUST THE FARKING SAME as where they are at.

Fact is, those douchebags (ie, the rest of the middle east that whine so much about Israel) enjoy biatching about the plight of the palestinians. Even nice guy nnext door Jordan has Palestinian refugee camps (that entire generations have grown up in) without letting them become a part of Jordanian life. And they are the ones that have done the most for the palestinian 'refugees'. What does buddy Egypt do?
 
2009-12-20 11:31:30 PM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Crosshair: Those poor peaceful protesters.

I like your reasoning sir. A few fighters attempt to blend into crowds.

Therefore, ALL crowds are guilty.

Just like Iman Darweesh Al Hams. A 13-year-old girl carrying nothing but textbooks who was shot by the IDF, and then, while still alive, had a pistol magazine emptied into her body.


FWIW, according to the page you linked, "Soldiers said they opened fire on the girl because they initially thought she was planting a bomb.[4] After she was hit, soldiers claimed the unit's commanding officer went up to her and kept on shooting her, [5] despite their pleas to stop.[4]"

Obviously, the rank-and-file are not too pleased with these shenanigans.

It's also worth noting that the IDF has a lot of non-Jews in it. For example, the ones who shot the James Miller (new window) were Arab IDF soldiers, not Jewish ones.

Your point is well-taken, though, and the extreme views on either side seem too willing to forgive the transgressions of their "side" and too willing to transfer the blame to a religion rather than the people involved.
 
2009-12-20 11:31:46 PM
Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: Degree Absolute: TheJoe03: I personally love the Jews but Israel is the most fascist first world country in the world

Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!

For a "developed democracy" they are very oppressive. Not too many 1st world nations that have a whole race under their control and keeps them from having any trade or success. Face facts, the Palestinians are 2nd class citizens under Israeli control. How many other democracies are doing that?

Yes, war is a biatch. Maybe the "Palestinians" or whatever they are calling themselves this week should consider surrendering.


Funny, Israeli Arabs are first-class citizens under Israeli government that they participate in.

The Palestinians are Arab residents of Palestine who rejected Israeli citizenship and thought they'd get a better deal from the Arab neighbors. Boy were they wrong. When Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt they begged Egypt to take over jurisdiction of the Gaza Strip. Egypt refused, knowing that the refugees would be a constant thorn in Israel's side. When Hamas blew up the fence (2008?), the Gazans streamed into Egypt, and were forced back into Gaza at gunpoint by Egyptian forces.
 
2009-12-20 11:31:47 PM
Jews and Palestinians are both semites. Maybe they should make an isrealistine that is like how Turkey is supposed to be an anatolian state not just one for turkish people. They're both technically palestinians.

/imagine no religion
 
2009-12-20 11:32:21 PM
I'm shocked that this thread has devolved in to two sides arguing that their side is absolved of wrongdoing while the other side is completely and 100% wrong in every way, shape, and form.
 
2009-12-20 11:33:15 PM
well this thread certainly went nowhere fast. And you know what? Israel hasn't changed a bit.

hmm.

go figure.
 
2009-12-20 11:34:35 PM
diddleysquat: What a sickening story, it's so obvious that the potential for crimes against humanity is high in this situation.

of course, the possiblity that the story was engineered to evoke precisely that reaction cannot be ignored. controversy sells newspapers after all.
 
2009-12-20 11:36:02 PM
Swampthing in Korea: TheShavingofOccam123: If only the Israelis had some system to collect their organ donors in a series of camps. Also, instead of killing them with explosives and bullets, maybe the Israelis could use their donors as slave laborers until they die from program of intentional starvation and over-work. The organs could be harvested then perhaps the Israelis could build some large burning machine that would efficiently cremate the bodies. Then the Israelis could flush those ashes into a pond for disposal.

Goddamit. Are you born stupid, or did you work for a degree. It was ONE guy who was doing it. One guy. He did it without official sanction. It was not a government progress.


Let me quote the first four words of the article:

Israel has admitted that pathologists

That s on the end of pathologists means a great deal. It means more than one person did it. It means teams of medical people participated in the program. But go ahead and claim it was only one guy, one sick sadistic mad scientist that did everything all by himself.

Spin, spin, spin. How apropos, considering the season.
 
2009-12-20 11:37:22 PM
Weaver95: well this thread certainly went nowhere fast. And you know what? Israel hasn't changed a bit.

hmm.

go figure.


You didn't think they would risk losing the battle for Fark's soul in a fistfight with Israel, did you?

Seriously, though, people's perception is that this is a game of inches and the Long View. Pile every "outrage" into the public's conscience to eventually affect US policy on financial support to Israel.
 
2009-12-20 11:38:49 PM
loki see loki do

Oh, I'm hip, studey, but a lot of those cats didn't really want to live in Arizona.

If we were serious, they would have large swaths where they could actually live their seminomadic lives like the old days. Or have farkin factories if they wanted. Or bigass solar farms or whatever the fark else they wanted their culture to evolve into.


Actually, the ones that are interested integrate just fine into American culture - they have all that and more. Native Americans all get free scholarships to major universities. They're in, they just have to do it and get the grades. Most do not.

Fark, I'd support it too, unless they wanted my house. But if I got fair value from the Feds, hey, take the motherfarker. I can move. And adapt. And I'm not terrible adverse to it.

Same here. Thing is, the Indians have plenty of land now for their numbers. There is zero overcrowding. If you threw a dart at a map of a reservation and went there, you'd likely see no roads and no people. They're not asking for more land.

I keep wondering why the rest of the middle east, rich with all that oil vs. Israel that isn;t oily rich, doesn;t step up , give the Palestinians a fair cut, and let them get on with their lives somewhere that LOOKS JUST THE FARKING SAME as where they are at.

Fact is, those douchebags (ie, the rest of the middle east that whine so much about Israel) enjoy biatching about the plight of the palestinians. Even nice guy nnext door Jordan has Palestinian refugee camps (that entire generations have grown up in) without letting them become a part of Jordanian life. And they are the ones that have done the most for the palestinian 'refugees'. What does buddy Egypt do?


Good question. Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians? Or at least hook them up with money and support for a better life? Build hospitals and schools in Palestine?

I don't think Israel would have it. They want the area to remain dirt poor and oppressed. They want the Palestinians out, to take it for themselves.
 
2009-12-20 11:39:13 PM
studebaker hoch: loki see loki do

/I guess there is a time limit. Israel only has to wait another hundred fifty years, then they are cool beyond reproach.

Not a chance in hell they will make it at the rate they're going today.

I give them 20-30 years, tops. Perhaps sooner, since there is currently a serious surplus of cash in Arab states, and a surplus of high-quality nukes in Russian states.

/All that needs to happen is for exactly 1 (one) deal to go down.


Worst possible scenario, I think.
Israel already has her nukes.
Think Mekkah and Medina aren't as high on their list as Tehran and a few "nuclear sites"?
I think a first strike or large scale terrorist strike (nuke) might be what Israel would use to justify The End, suck in Afghanistan and India to light their burners, and you have the whole middle East to the subcontinent All Nuked Up.

(relatively) Small scale armeggedon.
 
2009-12-20 11:40:45 PM
Pffft. There's a state legislator in California who wants to change the donor laws here to "implied consent," meaning unless you explicitly say you don't want to be an organ donor, you're assumed to be ok with it. Maybe Israel was just a little ahead of its time.
 
2009-12-20 11:42:12 PM
Oh man, a point I should have made earlier...

Native Americans are not confined to their reservations like Palestinians.

They can and do own land all over America. They are full citizens, and can travel freely all over America.

They are not discriminated against by cops, since 1) they are citizens and 2) they are not known for crime.

They're here, among us, all over the place, right now.
 
2009-12-20 11:42:31 PM
loki see loki do: (relatively) Small scale armeggedon.

The world could use a few billion less people.
 
2009-12-20 11:44:01 PM
geedavey: Oh, and yes, I confused the Hamas Charter with the Fatah Charter. But since Hamas is now in charge of the Gaza Strip and is likely to take over the West bank as well, it's not much of a distinction.

I know what you mean. I often confuse today's Israelis with the Germans of the 30's, and likewise it's not much of a distinction.
 
2009-12-20 11:44:21 PM
vygramul: FWIW, according to the page you linked, "Soldiers said they opened fire on the girl because they initially thought she was planting a bomb.[4] After she was hit, soldiers claimed the unit's commanding officer went up to her and kept on shooting her, [5] despite their pleas to stop.[4]"

Obviously, the rank-and-file are not too pleased with these shenanigans.

It's also worth noting that the IDF has a lot of non-Jews in it. For example, the ones who shot the James Miller (new window) were Arab IDF soldiers, not Jewish ones.

Your point is well-taken, though, and the extreme views on either side seem too willing to forgive the transgressions of their "side" and too willing to transfer the blame to a religion rather than the people involved.


Well that's the point. It's not that the IDF does or does not kill people who are occasionally guilty or innocent. It's that Crosshair sits there and deliberately dissembles in an effort to represent all Palestinians as militants.
 
2009-12-20 11:46:33 PM
El Pachuco: I often confuse today's Israelis with the Germans of the 30's

Well I for one think it is pretty brave of you to out yourself as a farking moron.
 
2009-12-20 11:46:37 PM
Egalitarian: Well that sucks but it sounds like the hospital did that to anyone they got a hold of, Palestinian and Israeli alike.

\has anyone made a video game yet about illegal organ transplants?


Wasn't that old "Operation" game kind of like that?
 
2009-12-20 11:47:05 PM
studebaker hoch: Oh man, a point I should have made earlier...

Native Americans are not confined to their reservations like Palestinians.

They can and do own land all over America. They are full citizens, and can travel freely all over America.

They are not discriminated against by cops, since 1) they are citizens and 2) they are not known for crime.

They're here, among us, all over the place, right now.


Like spiders. You're never more than a few feet away from a spider at any given moment.
 
2009-12-20 11:48:40 PM
loki see loki do

Worst possible scenario, I think.

Pretty much that. And it's because of the constant war.

The nukes are small, surprisingly NOT radioactive or otherwise detectable, and can be delivered in the trunk of a car, no need for fancy aircraft of missiles.

Now, we have the very best US technology guarding against this from happening, but that deal could very well get made.

/And we all know that Russians are not corrupt or bribable with suitcases or trucks full of Stuff Men Want. Nope, can't happen.
 
2009-12-20 11:50:03 PM
Degree Absolute: El Pachuco: I often confuse today's Israelis with the Germans of the 30's

Well I for one think it is pretty brave of you to out yourself as a farking moron.


Here:

www.cachinggear.co.uk

For your sarcasm meter.

It's busted.
 
2009-12-20 11:50:32 PM
studebaker hoch: Oh man, a point I should have made earlier...

Native Americans are not confined to their reservations like Palestinians.

They can and do own land all over America. They are full citizens, and can travel freely all over America.

They are not discriminated against by cops, since 1) they are citizens and 2) they are not known for crime.

They're here, among us, all over the place, right now.


The similarities are striking. I expect that pretty soon Israel will have sports teams with names like Hamas, the Fedayeen and maybe even the Swarthy Jihadis.
 
2009-12-20 11:51:09 PM
Crosshair: The SINGLE person who did it was charged

People keep parroting this argument, but if you go back and read the article they are pretty clear that multiple pathologists were doing the harvesting.

If you are talking about a single guy in charge, sure. But it certainly looks like more than one lone wolf was aware of what was happening.

Israel has admitted that pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others without the consent of their families

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir
 
2009-12-20 11:52:22 PM
El Pachuco: Degree Absolute: El Pachuco: I often confuse today's Israelis with the Germans of the 30's

Well I for one think it is pretty brave of you to out yourself as a farking moron.

Here:



For your sarcasm meter.

It's busted.


My bad. I had to trade it in to pay the bills. farking recession.
 
2009-12-20 11:52:36 PM
This is an incredibly dishonest article.

It'd be like a headline that says "U.S. Admits It Denied Blacks Pay Raises."

And then it turns out that a particular company denied pay raises to all of its employees, most of which were black.

This was neither an act of the State of Israel, nor were Palestinians the primary "victims".

It's also old news -- something that was already extensively reported on a half a decade ago.

Note also, of course, the quote from the (self described) radical anthropologist, whose name the author of the article doesn't get right:

She was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that while Palestinians were "by a long shot" not the only ones affected, she felt the interview must be made public, because "the symbolism, you know, of taking skin of the population considered to be the enemy, [is] something, just in terms of its symbolic weight, that has to be reconsidered."

In other words, she's being deliberately deceptive because it fits her narrative. The story has absolutely nothing to do with "Palestinian" organs -- as a matter of fact, it's pretty obvious that most of the organs that were harvested were Israeli.

And it's Nancy Scheper-Hughes, if you're looking for information on this "radical anthropologist".
 
2009-12-20 11:52:58 PM
gadian

Like spiders. You're never more than a few feet away from a spider at any given moment.

In my house, we have about a dozen on our windows. You can watch them feed on everything from flies to bees to moths, every few days they catch something new.

When a good battle is on, we'll eat, drink and watch the fun.

/dinner and a show.
 
2009-12-20 11:53:00 PM
Sounds to me like a bunch of people can't comprehend what they read... that or they just want to sound like a bunch of skin headed Nazi, terrorist loving, hate mongers that like to twist facts to suit their backward world views. This was back in the 90's... it wasn't the Israeli government, they weren't kidnapping terrorist... I mean 'Palestinians'. This was being done to Jews and Arabs.
If you bleeding hearts are so worried about the poor suicide bombing 'Palestinians' why don't you go over there and express your concerns...
 
2009-12-20 11:54:54 PM
studebaker hoch: Good question. Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians? Or at least hook them up with money and support for a better life? Build hospitals and schools in Palestine?

I don't think Israel would have it. They want the area to remain dirt poor and oppressed. They want the Palestinians out, to take it for themselves.



"I don't think Israel would have it."
???
So Saudi Arabia et al take their orders from Israel??? Great Scott! It's all clear now! "Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians?" It's clearly because Israel wouldn't "have it"! All the failings of the Arab states are Israel's fault, because they are governed by Israel! Why didn't we see it sooner?!?

Goddamn, that's some weapons grade bullshiat you're stockpiling there.
 
2009-12-20 11:55:06 PM
Maybe they're preparing for a millennial zombie Sukkot
 
2009-12-20 11:55:48 PM
Eshkar: If you bleeding hearts are so worried about the poor suicide bombing 'Palestinians' why don't you go over there and express your concerns...

Cause they read about Alan Johnson on Fark.
 
2009-12-20 11:55:52 PM
Palestinians are lucky that Soylent Green is not kosher.
 
2009-12-20 11:56:16 PM
Anarchofascist:
It'd be like a headline that says "U.S. Admits It Denied Blacks Pay Raises."

And then it turns out that a particular company denied pay raises to all of its employees, most of which were black.



Uh, I meant to say "most of which were not black" here.
 
2009-12-20 11:56:35 PM
Evict all current residents from Nebraska. Relocate Israelis to Nebraska. Whirled peas.
 
2009-12-20 11:57:26 PM
Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.
 
2009-12-20 11:57:45 PM
Swampthing in Korea: gadian: I'm so farking tired of Israel. Why do we have to give them money and political favors again? What do they do for us?

Israel did nothing. It was one guy who was prosecuted and dismissed from his post.


The wharrgrrbll in this thread is strong today.

Thanks for putting it to 25 words or less. ;)
 
2009-12-20 11:59:01 PM
studebaker hoch: Oh man, a point I should have made earlier...

Native Americans are not confined to their reservations like Palestinians.

They can and do own land all over America. They are full citizens, and can travel freely all over America.

They are not discriminated against by cops, since 1) they are citizens and 2) they are not known for crime.

They're here, among us, all over the place, right now.


That damn Obama is RUINING OUR COUNTRY! I want my country back!
 
2009-12-20 11:59:27 PM
bv2112: Palestinians are lucky that Soylent Green is not kosher.

Are people not Kosher? Last I checked my hooves are not cloven and I don't have a shell. However, I do think I would taste best as a parmigiana or in an alfredo cream sauce.
 
2009-12-21 12:00:41 AM
SuperNinjaToad: some things should just be left unsaid especially if said practice had been stopped and hasn't been done in over a decade.

like the holocost?
 
2009-12-21 12:01:20 AM
loki see loki do: I think a first strike or large scale terrorist strike (nuke) might be what Israel would use to justify The End, suck in Afghanistan and India to light their burners, and you have the whole middle East to the subcontinent All Nuked Up.



there is absolutely no way that India (with either their past or present foreign policy) would enter such a flareup - unless you mean because of Pakistan joining in the fray because of state supported Islamic jihad motivations - in which case the target is still Israel

You'd probably see the US intervene before India
 
2009-12-21 12:02:33 AM
Isildur

Goddamn, that's some weapons grade bullshiat you're stockpiling there.

I said Israel won't allow other states to give money to Palestine, build anything there to help them.

In the last war, Israel destroyed all six Palestinian concrete plants, even running over the delivery trucks with tanks. They refuse to allow them to be rebuilt, saying the Palestinians would only use the concrete "for war".

If you went in right now and offered to donate a concrete plant to Palestine, Israel would not allow it.
 
2009-12-21 12:02:41 AM
Degree Absolute: Are people not Kosher?

Not the way they're typically killed by the Israelis.
 
2009-12-21 12:04:03 AM
studebaker hoch: loki see loki do

Oh, I'm hip, studey, but a lot of those cats didn't really want to live in Arizona.

If we were serious, they would have large swaths where they could actually live their seminomadic lives like the old days. Or have farkin factories if they wanted. Or bigass solar farms or whatever the fark else they wanted their culture to evolve into.

Actually, the ones that are interested integrate just fine into American culture - they have all that and more. Native Americans all get free scholarships to major universities. They're in, they just have to do it and get the grades. Most do not.

Fark, I'd support it too, unless they wanted my house. But if I got fair value from the Feds, hey, take the motherfarker. I can move. And adapt. And I'm not terrible adverse to it.

Same here. Thing is, the Indians have plenty of land now for their numbers. There is zero overcrowding. If you threw a dart at a map of a reservation and went there, you'd likely see no roads and no people. They're not asking for more land.

I keep wondering why the rest of the middle east, rich with all that oil vs. Israel that isn;t oily rich, doesn;t step up , give the Palestinians a fair cut, and let them get on with their lives somewhere that LOOKS JUST THE FARKING SAME as where they are at.

Fact is, those douchebags (ie, the rest of the middle east that whine so much about Israel) enjoy biatching about the plight of the palestinians. Even nice guy nnext door Jordan has Palestinian refugee camps (that entire generations have grown up in) without letting them become a part of Jordanian life. And they are the ones that have done the most for the palestinian 'refugees'. What does buddy Egypt do?

Good question. Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians? Or at least hook them up with money and support for a better life? Build hospitals and schools in Palestine?

I don't think Israel would have it. They want the area to remain dirt poor and oppressed. They want the Palestinians out, to take it for themselves.


You gotta be kidding, right? The original plan was for Jordan to be a Palestinian state and Israel to exist side-by-side. The Arab nations would have none of it. Israel would like nothing better than for the Arab nations to take care of their own...but the last time the Palestinians made such pests of themselves-tried to overthrow the Jordanian government (new window)-that Jordan kicked them out.
 
2009-12-21 12:04:10 AM
randomjsa: Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

So just because a few thousand "Palestinians" were celebrating in the streets, you condemn an entire non-existent nation? You heartless crack whore. What about those two or three Israelis that may or may not have been taking pictures and smiling with the WTC burning in the background? What are your thoughts on that situation if it actually happened?
 
2009-12-21 12:04:32 AM
If many of the alleged dead victims were as they claim actually Israeli; and since Orthodox Judaism requires that dead Jews be buried intact by sundown on the day of their death (IIRC); then isn't taking someone's corneas or bone marrow without their permission a violation of their religion? And wouldn't the offending surgeon be thus ritually unclean?

Stirring the pot here, I know; but I also seem to remember a squad of Orthodox body recovery specialists who would go through an area after it had been bombed, trying to ensure that all the "parts" had been retrieved so they could be buried according to religious requirements.
 
2009-12-21 12:07:03 AM
bv2112: Degree Absolute: Are people not Kosher?

Not the way they're typically killed by the Israelis.


Seared in a white phosphorous truffle demi-glaze? once it hits your lips... so good
 
2009-12-21 12:08:16 AM
"Embargo", that's the word I'm looking for.

You can't bring anything into Palestine, there is an Israeli embargo.

/they're fscked. They have to sneak it underground from Egypt.
 
2009-12-21 12:08:48 AM
studebaker hoch: gadian

Like spiders. You're never more than a few feet away from a spider at any given moment.

In my house, we have about a dozen on our windows. You can watch them feed on everything from flies to bees to moths, every few days they catch something new.

When a good battle is on, we'll eat, drink and watch the fun.

/dinner and a show.


i387.photobucket.com

Holy Jewish Jumping Spider, Batman
 
2009-12-21 12:10:01 AM
Gameshot911: TheJoe03: RoyBatty: TheJoe03: What am I missing?

Basic reading comprehension would be my guess.

I suspect you'll do okay in a world where you're told what to think and given electronic moving pictures and shiny things to look at.

Hint: the article says this happened to everyone that entered the institute and that Palestinians were not singled out.

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives"

OK, you geeky fat bastard, I just glanced over the article. I am far too lazy to read the whole thing. My bad. Still doesn't change my opinion of Israeli policy. Again, my bad.

And before I posted you did respond, therefore now I am in the wrong. Anyone who is willing to admit they messed something up is OK in my book...remind me to buy you an e-beer.


While you pass the e-beer, I'll pass the e-blunt!
 
2009-12-21 12:10:01 AM
Ours are NOT that big!
 
2009-12-21 12:10:09 AM
Degree Absolute: El Pachuco: For your sarcasm meter.

It's busted.

My bad. I had to trade it in to pay the bills. farking recession.


No prob, but around these parts it's always a good idea to slow down a bit. If someone makes an original stupid post, flame away, but if it's in response to something, you'll want to make sure you read whatever they were responding to, or you might overlook the real stupidity.
 
2009-12-21 12:10:21 AM
Degree Absolute: randomjsa: Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

So just because a few thousand "Palestinians" were celebrating in the streets, you condemn an entire non-existent nation? You heartless crack whore. What about those two or three Israelis that may or may not have been taking pictures and smiling with the WTC burning in the background? What are your thoughts on that situation if it actually happened?


Ignore randommotherf*cker he's an alt who's other alt hates anything that anyone else supports.
 
2009-12-21 12:10:53 AM
The_Driver: Evict all current residents from Nebraska. Relocate Israelis to Nebraska. Whirled peas.

If we were going to use a state that would upset the least number of people, North Dakota is the place to dump them. It's the only state that has had negative population growth for the past 10 years. Some towns have restarted the Homestead Act - they will give you land if you show up and build a house on it.
 
2009-12-21 12:11:30 AM
Weaver95: diddleysquat: What a sickening story, it's so obvious that the potential for crimes against humanity is high in this situation.

of course, the possiblity that the story was engineered to evoke precisely that reaction cannot be ignored. controversy sells newspapers after all.


although, for a long time i have appreciated your inquisitiveness, you refuse to acknowledge the atrocities that Israel (not 'teh Jews') have performed on the Palestinian people. You are an apologist...not for Jewish people--but for abhorrent governmental behavior justified in the name of perceived justified vengeance.
 
2009-12-21 12:12:34 AM
The problem with the news story is that it's framed in a biased, ugly way. As far as I can tell, the actual story is this. More than ten years ago, there was a forensic institute that, for medical purposes, would use the organs of the dead -- irrespective of the ethnicity of the dead (i.e., the bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians were used this way) -- and without obtaining consent. If that summary is correct, then I think that the forensic institute's policy was a bad one and I'm glad they've rethought it.

But it's misleading, inflammatory, and incredibly irresponsible for the Guardian to run the headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs." It leads directly to nonsense like this:

Suede head: Mengele-like behavior. The Israelis are the text-book example of the abused child growing up to be an abuser.

Jesus Christ.
 
2009-12-21 12:14:01 AM
El Pachuco: Degree Absolute: El Pachuco: For your sarcasm meter.

It's busted.

My bad. I had to trade it in to pay the bills. farking recession.

No prob, but around these parts it's always a good idea to slow down a bit. If someone makes an original stupid post, flame away, but if it's in response to something, you'll want to make sure you read whatever they were responding to, or you might overlook the real stupidity.


true words my friend. I haven't Farked for a few months so forgive me.
 
2009-12-21 12:14:55 AM
Gyrfalcon: If many of the alleged dead victims were as they claim actually Israeli; and since Orthodox Judaism requires that dead Jews be buried intact by sundown on the day of their death (IIRC); then isn't taking someone's corneas or bone marrow without their permission a violation of their religion? And wouldn't the offending surgeon be thus ritually unclean?

Stirring the pot here, I know; but I also seem to remember a squad of Orthodox body recovery specialists who would go through an area after it had been bombed, trying to ensure that all the "parts" had been retrieved so they could be buried according to religious requirements.


Actually most Orthodox factions, even many of the most strict now allow organ donation and harvesting, based on the fact that the commandment to preserve life (mitzvah pikuach nefesh) at all cost supersedes all other commandments.
 
2009-12-21 12:15:05 AM
Isildur: studebaker hoch: Good question. Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians? Or at least hook them up with money and support for a better life? Build hospitals and schools in Palestine?

I don't think Israel would have it. They want the area to remain dirt poor and oppressed. They want the Palestinians out, to take it for themselves.



"I don't think Israel would have it."???
So Saudi Arabia et al take their orders from Israel??? Great Scott! It's all clear now! "Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians?" It's clearly because Israel wouldn't "have it"! All the failings of the Arab states are Israel's fault, because they are governed by Israel! Why didn't we see it sooner?!?

Goddamn, that's some weapons grade bullshiat you're stockpiling there.


Got that right. Thing is, you can't ignore it, because if it's allowed to pile high enough, the stink drives away all reason.

F'rinstance: Israel has no desire at all to bomb Mecca and Medina, as another poster suggested. In fact, Israel deliberately did not occupy the Temple Mount when they retook Jerusalem from Jordan, precisely because they wanted to demonstrate their respect for all religions. (And the Baha'i faith's world headquarters is now in Israel because they were threatened with--wait for it--genocide in their original home in Iraq.) Israel maintains a nuclear stockpile for one reason only: it is under a death threat from the entire Arab world, and has the experience to take that seriously. Iran wouldn't have anything to fear from Israeli nukes if it wasn't threatening to wipe it off the map in the first place. BTW the happiest people in the world if Israel did target Iran's nuclear program would be Iran's neighbors. they're scared shiatless of a nuclear Iran that wants to export radical Islam.
 
2009-12-21 12:15:27 AM
So Israel didn't ask permission from the families of dead Palestinians or dead Israelis for harvesting organs. That's bad, but it's over now for more than a decade. So how does one go from not asking permission to murder? I think that the Sweden newspaper needs to find some fresh news to write about.
 
2009-12-21 12:16:41 AM
Smirkles: The problem with the news story is that it's framed in a biased, ugly way. As far as I can tell, the actual story is this. More than ten years ago, there was a forensic institute that, for medical purposes, would use the organs of the dead -- irrespective of the ethnicity of the dead (i.e., the bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians were used this way) -- and without obtaining consent. If that summary is correct, then I think that the forensic institute's policy was a bad one and I'm glad they've rethought it.

But it's misleading, inflammatory, and incredibly irresponsible for the Guardian to run the headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs."


Sir/Madam, I believe you've nailed it.
 
2009-12-21 12:17:24 AM
The UN gave Israel *west* Jerusalem, and Palestine *east* Jerusalem.

Somehow Israel has mis-read the UN directive and (get this, you ready?) taken ALL of Jerusalem for themselves!

Can you believe that?

/Oh and they bombed the UN in the last war.
 
2009-12-21 12:20:32 AM
So, a bunch of Isrealis are out there with Palestinian organs now? That sounds like a pretty good story for them.

I mean, what makes someone a Jew, or an Arab, now ?
 
2009-12-21 12:21:13 AM
If Israel tries an "Osiran" mission, they will succeed in

1) Destroying the reactor complex.
2) Slowing down the Iranian quest to make a reactor that could be used to make plutonium.
3) Giving rise to ten new, harder-to-destroy, reactors.
4) Giving a radical Muslim Iranian dictator every justification he needs to make war.
5) Because now there will be Iranian blood on Jewish hands.

Israel should really really not go there.
 
2009-12-21 12:21:47 AM
Eshkar: Gyrfalcon: If many of the alleged dead victims were as they claim actually Israeli; and since Orthodox Judaism requires that dead Jews be buried intact by sundown on the day of their death (IIRC); then isn't taking someone's corneas or bone marrow without their permission a violation of their religion? And wouldn't the offending surgeon be thus ritually unclean?

Stirring the pot here, I know; but I also seem to remember a squad of Orthodox body recovery specialists who would go through an area after it had been bombed, trying to ensure that all the "parts" had been retrieved so they could be buried according to religious requirements.

Actually most Orthodox factions, even many of the most strict now allow organ donation and harvesting, based on the fact that the commandment to preserve life (mitzvah pikuach nefesh) at all cost supersedes all other commandments.


But with permission, amirite? Doctors can't just go around slicing bodies open and scooping out whatever strikes their fancy unless a soldier or whoever has a code on his dog tags or driver's license that allows them to? I know that most sects have loosened up on autopsy requirements, for example; but still they prefer the coroner asks permission.
 
2009-12-21 12:22:25 AM
studebaker hoch: The UN gave Israel *west* Jerusalem, and Palestine *east* Jerusalem.

Somehow Israel has mis-read the UN directive and (get this, you ready?) taken ALL of Jerusalem for themselves!

Can you believe that?

/Oh and they bombed the UN in the last war.


...Oh no all of those poor strongly worded letters... the UN is useless.

But yeah... Off topic
 
2009-12-21 12:22:39 AM

Doing a little bit of googling turns up this article from 2002.

State Attorney General Elyakim Rubinstein ordered police to launch an investigation against Prof. Yehuda Hiss, the nation's senior pathologist and director of the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute.

Hiss is accused of a long list of charges from inappropriate behavior as a medical professional to criminal acts such as the illegal sale of and dealings in organs and body parts, removing organs from deceased persons without consent, and misrepresenting organs in returned bodies.

Allegations made against Hiss in some cases include his taking organs without consent, placing the cardboard center of toilet paper rolls and metallic rods in their place to fill the voids in the body and hide the theft of the organs.

A court-ordered search of the institute revealed large supplies of stored organs taken illegally from bodies. Over the past years, heads of the institute appear to have given thousands of organs for research without permission, while maintaining a "storehouse" of organs at Abu Kabir.

Organs belonging to soldiers killed in various circumstances were found in the institute during a surprise search this week. After consulting with Chief Chaplain Brig. Gen. Rabbi Yisrael Weiss, it was decided that in concert with the bereaved families, graves would be opened and the organs buried along with the remains of each soldier involved.

So basically, this institution was harvesting organs from dead bodies, without permission. That's pretty bad, although the Israeli government caught the practice themselves and shut it down years ago. And not just from Palestinians, but everybody, including their own soldiers.

You farkers want to know why a lot of people think you're antisemitic and basically neo-Nazis? Australia has done worse to its aboriginals over the years, and I don't see anybody suggesting that is 'casus belli' and implying that America should invade Australia. Likewise with Canada. But with Israel everybody jumps to the conclusion that because a forensic institute was illegaly harvesting corneas, that Israel is running a massive abduction program, stealing away palestinian children to harvest their organs. It's apparently some massive Jewish conspiracy, instead of the actions of a few individuals. Seriously, have you ever heard of the principle of charity? Or even Occam's razor?

This shiat goes on all over the world. China, India, even America. But as soon as the word 'Israel' appears, there's a substantial group of people that start frothing at the mouth and jump to the absolute worst possible conclusion. And that's why you farkers are anti-semitic.
 
2009-12-21 12:23:38 AM
Degree Absolute
Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!

surveillance society, state-controlled media, military-controlled state, authoritarian government, ethnic division, scapegoating of a minority, disregard for human rights, hostility to diplomacy, expansionist policy, use of propaganda on its own civilian population...


geedavey
•"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him..."

Let me know if they're ever capable of carrying that out, and you might have a point.

Hey, I hear there's a crazy homeless guy in Canada who wants to kill all Americans. Clearly the only rational response is to invade and place the entire population in internment camps!


beoswulf
Haha, good one.

and ignore'd.
 
2009-12-21 12:24:31 AM
Eshkar

...Oh no all of those poor strongly worded letters... the UN is useless.

The UN created Israel.

/NTTAWWT, they just picked a really bad zip code.
 
2009-12-21 12:24:37 AM
studebaker hoch: "Embargo", that's the word I'm looking for.

You can't bring anything into Palestine, there is an Israeli embargo.

/they're fscked. They have to sneak it underground from Egypt.


Really? Let me Google that for you: (new window)
 
2009-12-21 12:25:34 AM
Gyrfalcon: Eshkar: Gyrfalcon: If many of the alleged dead victims were as they claim actually Israeli; and since Orthodox Judaism requires that dead Jews be buried intact by sundown on the day of their death (IIRC); then isn't taking someone's corneas or bone marrow without their permission a violation of their religion? And wouldn't the offending surgeon be thus ritually unclean?

Stirring the pot here, I know; but I also seem to remember a squad of Orthodox body recovery specialists who would go through an area after it had been bombed, trying to ensure that all the "parts" had been retrieved so they could be buried according to religious requirements.

Actually most Orthodox factions, even many of the most strict now allow organ donation and harvesting, based on the fact that the commandment to preserve life (mitzvah pikuach nefesh) at all cost supersedes all other commandments.

But with permission, amirite? Doctors can't just go around slicing bodies open and scooping out whatever strikes their fancy unless a soldier or whoever has a code on his dog tags or driver's license that allows them to? I know that most sects have loosened up on autopsy requirements, for example; but still they prefer the coroner asks permission.


Oh I agree, I wasn't saying what they did was right, I am just saying that your attempt at using Halakha to stir the pot failed.
 
2009-12-21 12:26:09 AM
Smirkles: The problem with the news story is that it's framed in a biased, ugly way. As far as I can tell, the actual story is this. More than ten years ago, there was a forensic institute that, for medical purposes, would use the organs of the dead -- irrespective of the ethnicity of the dead (i.e., the bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians were used this way) -- and without obtaining consent. If that summary is correct, then I think that the forensic institute's policy was a bad one and I'm glad they've rethought it.

But it's misleading, inflammatory, and incredibly irresponsible for the Guardian to run the headline: "Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs." It leads directly to nonsense like this:

Suede head: Mengele-like behavior. The Israelis are the text-book example of the abused child growing up to be an abuser.

Jesus Christ.


THIS. Story in a nutshell. Merry Christmas, everyone!
 
2009-12-21 12:26:43 AM
beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead. As long as the health-care staff provide complete emergency care before you died you or act in accordance with your living will. Too many living people out there suffering because of religious fairy tales about having to be buried in the ground if you want your spirit to go to heaven.

Thing is, a lot of those people are living in Israel.

If you read TFA (or any other coverage of this) you see they took tissues not only from Palestinian dead but also Jewish dead, soldiers and civilians.

Makes me wonder if there has been some storms of protest in Israel over it, considering that some portion of the populace is EXTREMELY opposed to even autopsies (they'll protest in the street over it).

Granted those people wouldn't be in the army, generally, but.
 
2009-12-21 12:28:31 AM
Just because AFAIK nobody else did it yet, let's reverse things a bit:

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, Palestinian specialists harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

I assume nobody above wants to change their posts at all, right?

Right?
 
2009-12-21 12:29:55 AM
geedavey
Really? Let me Google that for you: (new window)

OK, that was funny as hell. Bookmarked.

/oh and "humanitarian aid" is rice and aspirin. No new concrete plants or money to rebuild businesses. You stay poor. Here, have a US-issued pop-tart, it's good for you.
 
2009-12-21 12:31:01 AM
RanDomino: surveillance society, state-controlled media, military-controlled state, authoritarian government, ethnic division, scapegoating of a minority, disregard for human rights, hostility to diplomacy, expansionist policy, use of propaganda on its own civilian population...

the UK?


/j/k Brits!
 
2009-12-21 12:32:25 AM
studebaker hoch: Eshkar

...Oh no all of those poor strongly worded letters... the UN is useless.

The UN created Israel.

/NTTAWWT, they just picked a really bad zip code.


Let me clarify... when they were first founded they were effective and would back up their words... now they are ineffective letter writing liberals.
 
2009-12-21 12:32:47 AM
geedavey
Israel would like nothing better than for the Arab nations to take care of their own...but the last time the Palestinians made such pests of themselves

1) You want Palestinians to leave their homes. Why?
2) You're using the actions of the PLO decades ago to characterize all Palestinians. Do you see what's racist about that? There are millions of Palestinians who aren't militants and who aren't trying to overthrow governments, but in your mind, they're all the same.

Got that right. Thing is, you can't ignore it, because if it's allowed to pile high enough, the stink drives away all reason.

Where do people like you come from? You all have exactly the same lines, right down to the phrasing. All someone's alt? Israeli plants? Fox News watchers and Rush Limbaugh listeners?
 
2009-12-21 12:32:57 AM
Mr. Hands

Just because AFAIK nobody else did it yet, let's reverse things a bit:

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, Palestinian specialists harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

I assume nobody above wants to change their posts at all, right?

Right?


Palestians still seem to be on the guest list.
 
2009-12-21 12:34:47 AM
RanDomino: Degree Absolute
Yeah, I hate fascists with their democracy, religious pluralism, press freedom, minority representation and well-functioning/popular heath care system. Assholes!

surveillance society, state-controlled media, military-controlled state, authoritarian government, ethnic division, scapegoating of a minority, disregard for human rights, hostility to diplomacy, expansionist policy, use of propaganda on its own civilian population...


Sounds like Bush's America to me.

geedavey
•"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him..."

Let me know if they're ever capable of carrying that out, and you might have a point.

Hamas and Hezbollah are receiving and deploying longer range missiles.
Iran is actively pursuing a nuclear program.
The Syrian site Israel bombed in 2007 had nuclear radiation signatures; the US shared intel with Israel and approved the strike.
Until the 'apartheid wall' went up, suicide bombings in Israeli cities were a scourge; it's dropped off dramatically since.

I'd say they're trying hard and will succeed if not actively opposed.
 
2009-12-21 12:39:40 AM
itazurakko: beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead. As long as the health-care staff provide complete emergency care before you died you or act in accordance with your living will. Too many living people out there suffering because of religious fairy tales about having to be buried in the ground if you want your spirit to go to heaven.

Thing is, a lot of those people are living in Israel.

If you read TFA (or any other coverage of this) you see they took tissues not only from Palestinian dead but also Jewish dead, soldiers and civilians.

Makes me wonder if there has been some storms of protest in Israel over it, considering that some portion of the populace is EXTREMELY opposed to even autopsies (they'll protest in the street over it).

Granted those people wouldn't be in the army, generally, but.


Read "Lieutenant Birnbaum" (new window) if you want to read about the exposure and successful termination of the practice of unauthorized autopsy by the Israeli medical establishment.
 
2009-12-21 12:41:46 AM
jepzilla: and I don't see anybody suggesting that is 'casus belli' and implying that America should invade Australia.

I think even the absurd "causus belli" argument wasn't suggesting America does the invading.

But yeah, Fark is comprised mostly of people who have an irrational beef with numerous groups. There's currently a Catholic hate thread on the main page because a school asked kids to write a letter to Jesus instead of Santa for Christmas.

On any given day, you can find a thread with people bashing:

Gays
Catholics
Christians
Jews
The French
Muslims
Parents
Furries
Vegans
Meat Eaters
Wal-Mart shoppers
The French
The British
Canadians
Americans
Iranians
Drunks
Teetotalers
Actors
Geeks
Teachers
The French
Republicans
Democrats
Conservatives
Liberals
Atheists
The Apolitical
Teenagers
Blacks
The French
Whites
Asians
Eskimos
Unions

etc.

If you want to find the one, single thing an average Farker will not criticize, find a mirror.

Like most destinations on the Internet, Fark is a font of negativity most of the time, which makes the positive threads such a pleasant surprise.

The humorous threads are also a bonus. The poop thread from last week was gut busting hilarious.
 
2009-12-21 12:49:50 AM
studebaker hoch: dennysgod

And....a tip 'o the hat to Fark

/feel better now...


Feel better for what?
 
2009-12-21 12:50:40 AM
Mr. Horse: Just because AFAIK nobody else did it yet, let's reverse things a bit:

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, Palestinian specialists harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

I assume nobody above wants to change their posts at all, right?

Right?


When the Arabs collect Israeli body parts (as we saw with Hebollah) it was all of Fark vs Tatsuma for expecting Israel to comply fully with the Arabs' demands.
 
2009-12-21 12:50:56 AM
studebaker hoch:

/Oh and they bombed the UN in the last war.


All this talk of their vaunted military. Next time do
the job right!
 
2009-12-21 12:51:16 AM
at80eighty
the UK?

geedavey
Sounds like Bush's America to me.

yeah, well, every government decays to fascism sooner or later.


geedavey
Hamas and Hezbollah are receiving and deploying longer range missiles.
Iran is actively pursuing a nuclear program.
The Syrian site Israel bombed in 2007 had nuclear radiation signatures; the US shared intel with Israel and approved the strike.
Until the 'apartheid wall' went up, suicide bombings in Israeli cities were a scourge; it's dropped off dramatically since.


Even if any of those was a plausable threat to Israel's existence, none of them justifies Israel's blatant land-grabbing for civilian settlement. Unless you can explain how transferring civilians onto occupied territory can both be a military strategy and not violate the Geneva Conventions (hint: it can't, because the use of civilians for military purposes is illegal under international law; any way you slice it the settlements and Israel's assault on East Jerusalem are just a land grab).
 
2009-12-21 12:53:15 AM
In short,

Israel Doctor admits harvesting organs from Palestinians any dead person who didn't need them any more, ten years ago, for implantation and medical research in order to save lives. Predictably, the anti-semites are Guardian is making this sound bad current

FTFY
 
2009-12-21 12:55:59 AM
Eshkar: Gyrfalcon: Eshkar: Gyrfalcon: If many of the alleged dead victims were as they claim actually Israeli; and since Orthodox Judaism requires that dead Jews be buried intact by sundown on the day of their death (IIRC); then isn't taking someone's corneas or bone marrow without their permission a violation of their religion? And wouldn't the offending surgeon be thus ritually unclean?

Stirring the pot here, I know; but I also seem to remember a squad of Orthodox body recovery specialists who would go through an area after it had been bombed, trying to ensure that all the "parts" had been retrieved so they could be buried according to religious requirements.

Actually most Orthodox factions, even many of the most strict now allow organ donation and harvesting, based on the fact that the commandment to preserve life (mitzvah pikuach nefesh) at all cost supersedes all other commandments.

But with permission, amirite? Doctors can't just go around slicing bodies open and scooping out whatever strikes their fancy unless a soldier or whoever has a code on his dog tags or driver's license that allows them to? I know that most sects have loosened up on autopsy requirements, for example; but still they prefer the coroner asks permission.

Oh I agree, I wasn't saying what they did was right, I am just saying that your attempt at using Halakha to stir the pot failed.


Less an attempt at real pot-stirring; I was just wondering if anyone really could do that & justify it religiously. I couldn't recall the religious tenet that said removing body parts was a potential no-no.
 
2009-12-21 12:57:31 AM
Well, this does not surprise me given the brazenness of the holocaust hoax.

/Joke.
 
2009-12-21 12:59:12 AM
How the hell did the progressive point of view get so farked up?
throws undesirables in the gulag=social justice
functional democracy that respects human rights=murders!
 
2009-12-21 01:00:38 AM
Weaver95: Meh.

Of course.

Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Other than post your shrugging it off, amiright?

When it comes to Israeli Jews who happen to be gay who get attacked by the farking deranged religious Israelis, you care enough to defend that bigotry. When it comes to the IDF carving up the "corpses" of Palestinians for their organs, you're powerless- except to express your opinion that it's no big deal.

Reverting to type...
 
2009-12-21 01:08:46 AM
Jon Snow: Weaver95: Meh.

Of course.

Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Other than post your shrugging it off, amiright?

When it comes to Israeli Jews who happen to be gay who get attacked by the farking deranged religious Israelis, you care enough to defend that bigotry. When it comes to the IDF carving up the "corpses" of Palestinians for their organs, you're powerless- except to express your opinion that it's no big deal.

Reverting to type...


nailed it!--but by then you have played into her game. "clever girl."(so not-obscure)
 
2009-12-21 01:10:53 AM
Jon Snow:
When it comes to Israeli Jews who happen to be gay who get attacked by the farking deranged religious Israelis, you care enough to defend that bigotry. When it comes to the IDF carving up the "corpses" of Palestinians for their organs, you're powerless- except to express your opinion that it's no big deal.

Reverting to type...


i'm flattered you think i'm powerful enough to act on the world stage.

does my ego a world of good, believe me.
 
2009-12-21 01:19:32 AM
Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: that's very arrogant of you.

Your accusing me of arrogance for pointing out your own words? Nice.

No, i'm saying it's arrogant to assume you (or me, for that matter) have the ability to punish Israel for their actions. i'm just one guy on a random internet discussion forum. ok, and I've got a blog. But still - nothing I say will affect the world in the slightest.

I can reasonably assume to influence my local politicans. And if I worked my ass off I *might* have some small impact on state politics...but nationally? forget it. And my ability to influence the affairs of other nations is non-existent.

do what you can with what you've got. getting worked up about things you can't change will just drive you nutty. why you (and others) assume that your outrage can affect how Israel does business is entirely beyond me. It strikes me as arrogant, not to mention slightly delusional.


I'm not so sure that we can't affect the actions of another
country. I mean the movement and protests that lead to the end
of apartheid in SA wasn't just local. It was global.

In the same vein, it was not local outrage that brought down
the Third Reich. It was a multi-national effort. So yeah, getting
worked up over things *can* make a difference.

The key is knowing what to get worked up about and knowing when
to make like Francis and just lighten up.
 
2009-12-21 01:21:47 AM
digitalrain:
The key is knowing what to get worked up about and knowing when
to make like Francis and just lighten up.


yeah, except that we have an entire industry that manufactures outrage on demand. name the issue, they'll quote you a price and stir up whatever level of excitement you require. kind of makes it hard to get worked up over injustice once you've peeked behind the curtain.
 
2009-12-21 01:23:38 AM
beoswulf: Mr. Horse: Just because AFAIK nobody else did it yet, let's reverse things a bit:

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, Palestinian specialists harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

I assume nobody above wants to change their posts at all, right?

Right?

When the Arabs collect Israeli body parts (as we saw with Hebollah) it was all of Fark vs Tatsuma for expecting Israel to comply fully with the Arabs' demands.


I must have missed that one - when exactly were Palestinians harvesting body parts from Israeli prisoners and/or corpses?

Seriously, when?
 
2009-12-21 01:26:06 AM
Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

How many thousands of words did you write about the Iranian elections? You couldn't do anything about that, either, but it didn't stop you from having or expressing an opinion.
 
2009-12-21 01:31:30 AM
Jon Snow: When it comes to Israeli Jews who happen to be gay who get attacked by the farking deranged religious Israelis, you care enough to defend that bigotry. When it comes to the IDF carving up the "corpses" of Palestinians for their organs, you're powerless- except to express your opinion that it's no big deal.

Link?
 
2009-12-21 01:35:32 AM
studebaker hoch: The UN gave Israel *west* Jerusalem, and Palestine *east* Jerusalem.


Fair enough. Let's forget about 1947-1967 when the Palestinians went back to being Jordanians and didn't create a Palestine and even the British recognized Jordan's annexation of East Jerusalem as part of Jordan.
Moving on...

Somehow Israel has mis-read the UN directive and (get this, you ready?) taken ALL of Jerusalem for themselves!

Why would the evil, fascist Israelis do such a horrible thing?

"Following the outbreak of the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel warned King Hussein not to join Egyptian president Gamal Abdul Nasser in opening a new front against Israel in the West Bank. Nevertheless, in accordance with its mutual defence treaty with Egypt, Jordan initiated artillery fire on Israeli positions in West Jerusalem[...]

The Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian army out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem."


/Wikipedia is controlled by the Zionists obviously.
 
2009-12-21 01:57:50 AM
Err..they took organs from everyone, Palestinians and Israelis, without permission.

These organs were available for transplant to Jews and Arabs.

It ended years ago.

They never killed Palestinians to get organs.

So yeah, 85% bullshiate.
 
2009-12-21 02:11:14 AM
Weaver95: digitalrain:
The key is knowing what to get worked up about and knowing when
to make like Francis and just lighten up.

yeah, except that we have an entire industry that manufactures outrage on demand. name the issue, they'll quote you a price and stir up whatever level of excitement you require. kind of makes it hard to get worked up over injustice once you've peeked behind the curtain.



Maybe not as easy as one would like, but certainly not impossible, especially if you take the good advice given above to heart. You make it sound like they've utterly broken you.
 
2009-12-21 02:13:55 AM
FTA:
"The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

If the military was involved, I shudder to think how far this actually went, and in what numbers. A quick scan of the news reports about this shows flat out denials, then admitting to taking "skin patches" on the 19th. By today, it's "organ harvesting".

Why in the hell admit to any of this in the first place? There is only one logical answer: to get ahead of the story. Which makes me wonder what the real story is. I struggle to think of any Israeli military operation against the Palestinians that did not end up being excessive, why would this be different?

Any way you cut it, this is a propaganda bonanza for Israel's enemies. The arrogance here is astounding, as they must have known when they did this what it would mean if it came out. They just don't seem to give two shiats what anybody else thinks.

I'd be shocked if any Israeli citizens knowingly accepted pieces of Palestinians, considering the way they are constantly dehumanized in anonymous online commentary and among hyper-Zionists in private. I've told relatives more than once that they were starting to acquire a German accent while ranting about the "filthy animals".

Look for much more to come from this in the weeks ahead, with scant coverage by mainstream US media.
 
2009-12-21 02:18:56 AM
gadian: studebaker hoch: gadian

Like spiders. You're never more than a few feet away from a spider at any given moment.

In my house, we have about a dozen on our windows. You can watch them feed on everything from flies to bees to moths, every few days they catch something new.

When a good battle is on, we'll eat, drink and watch the fun.

/dinner and a show.



Holy Jewish Jumping Spider, Batman


I hate you so much
 
2009-12-21 03:02:00 AM
Not kosher.
 
2009-12-21 03:35:15 AM
RanDomino: yeah, well, every government decays to fascism sooner or later.

my post had 2 lines. your attention span should atleast last that long
 
2009-12-21 03:38:19 AM
You mean Palestinians can actually be useful?
 
2009-12-21 03:40:03 AM
Who cares? The only good palestinian is a dead palestinian.
 
2009-12-21 03:44:35 AM
Pretty farking generous of us to let them keep some of their land if you ask me. Somebody robbed my house once and took everything except for some old clothes and I tell you, I was awfully grateful they left them for me.
------

You might want to pick up a history book.

Stone Age Columbus

"DNA lineage predominantly found in Europe got to the Great Lakes, 14,000 to 15,000 years ago"

First Americans May Have Been European
 
2009-12-21 04:00:13 AM
jmaster306: GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL

In his defense you are comparing US government actions to Israeli government actions. I'm betting Weaver95 is probably American and therefore can vote and/or pester his representatives. You can't exactly do the same when you are talking about another country.

Of course if you had a quote from Weaver using human rights violations to support the war in Iraq, now would be an awfully good time to post it.


We can pester our representatives to not support Israel.

Thread over.
 
2009-12-21 04:02:57 AM
fark80: Pretty farking generous of us to let them keep some of their land if you ask me. Somebody robbed my house once and took everything except for some old clothes and I tell you, I was awfully grateful they left them for me.
------

You might want to pick up a history book.

Stone Age Columbus

"DNA lineage predominantly found in Europe got to the Great Lakes, 14,000 to 15,000 years ago"

First Americans May Have Been European


May have been = definitive history. AWESOME!

Nothing like a crank jerking off and blowing his load all over a thread as if its gospel.
 
2009-12-21 04:08:24 AM
beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead. As long as the health-care staff provide complete emergency care before you died you or act in accordance with your living will. Too many living people out there suffering because of religious fairy tales about having to be buried in the ground if you want your spirit to go to heaven.

Whether people want to be organ donors or not is their legitimate decision, asshole.

/organ donor
 
2009-12-21 04:23:11 AM
Apik0r0s: By today, it's "organ harvesting".

It's not but hey, don't let the facts confuse your usual hate-fest bullcrap. Carry on.

Fun fact: you don't harvest organs from corpses.
Another fun fact: it's not "Israel", it's the doctor in question who did this to anyone, not to dead terrorists only, and was kicked out from his position.

They didn't ask permission to do so and that is the problem, it's not like the killed people to take their organs (like the arab lie claims).
This happens in other countries.
Some countries like Spain, Austria and Belgium are doing this legally.

But hey, this is Israel so let the usuals vent a bit of hatred.
 
2009-12-21 04:24:03 AM
img63.imageshack.us
 
2009-12-21 05:26:50 AM
The Palestinians suicide bombers have taken donating organs to great heights. Even when faced with many obstacles they deliver in a flash. The initial large charge is required to get things moving quickly over the desired distance there by allowing the exchange without further notice. If the body part container is opened forcefully it may damage many of the parts.
The Palestinians would like any recipient of the donated organs who has issues to not make a direct response but rather address any replies threw official UN channels.
Remember the organ donation program is truly heart felt.
 
2009-12-21 05:37:37 AM
belowner: jepzilla: and I don't see anybody suggesting that is 'casus belli' and implying that America should invade Australia.

I think even the absurd "causus belli" argument wasn't suggesting America does the invading.

But yeah, Fark is comprised mostly of people who have an irrational beef with numerous groups. There's currently a Catholic hate thread on the main page because a school asked kids to write a letter to Jesus instead of Santa for Christmas.

On any given day, you can find a thread with people bashing:

Gays
Catholics
Christians
Jews
The French
Muslims
Parents
Furries
Vegans
Meat Eaters
Wal-Mart shoppers
The French
The British
Canadians
Americans
Iranians
Drunks
Teetotalers
Actors
Geeks
Teachers
The French
Republicans
Democrats
Conservatives
Liberals
Atheists
The Apolitical
Teenagers
Blacks
The French
Whites
Asians
Eskimos
Unions

etc.

*sigh* You forgot Poland.
 
2009-12-21 05:37:43 AM
upright_apes_r_us: The Palestinians suicide bombers have taken donating organs to great heights. Even when faced with many obstacles they deliver in a flash. The initial large charge is required to get things moving quickly over the desired distance there by allowing the exchange without further notice. If the body part container is opened forcefully it may damage many of the parts.
The Palestinians would like any recipient of the donated organs who has issues to not make a direct response but rather address any replies threw official UN channels.
Remember the organ donation program is truly heart felt.


Three paragraphs
2 of them start with "the palestinians"
good jorb, 6 out of 7 (cuz metric is discouraged round these here parts)
 
2009-12-21 05:40:01 AM
Castimirr: *sigh* You forgot Poland.

Everyone forgets poland
until.... we need them, or they get invaded

Remember French haters, Poland surrendered first !!!
Why does everyone forget Poland !!!!
 
2009-12-21 05:41:30 AM
Slartibartfaster: Remember French haters, Poland surrendered first !!!

Well technically
The pussy nations who declared neutrality then bankrolled both sides - nah, nobody is gonna bite that one.
 
2009-12-21 05:47:57 AM
A Play in Three Parts

Act 1.
Weaver95: [Hypocrisy].

Act 2.
Everyone Else: We would like to point out [Hypocrisy].

Act 3.
Weaver95: [Avoids acknowledging Hypocrisy].
Everyone Else: FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU

Finit.
 
2009-12-21 05:53:01 AM
Malicious Bastard: A Play in Three Parts

Act 1.
Weaver95: [Hypocrisy].

Act 2.
Everyone Else: We would like to point out [Hypocrisy].

Act 3.
Weaver95: [Avoids acknowledging Hypocrisy].
Everyone Else: FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU

Finit.


Which part does your act come in on ? sorry I missed my "Everyone do this" cue
I didnt realize you had this scripted
 
2009-12-21 05:55:01 AM
Slartibartfaster: Poland surrendered first !!!

Nobody ever remembers the Czechs
 
2009-12-21 05:57:18 AM
Malicious Bastard: A Play in Three Parts

Act 1.
Weaver95: [Hypocrisy].

Act 2.
Everyone Else: We would like to point out [Hypocrisy].

Act 3.
Weaver95: [Avoids acknowledging Hypocrisy].
Everyone Else: FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU

Finit.


I have the feeling I've seen this play before.
 
2009-12-21 06:17:24 AM
TappingTheVein: Apik0r0s: By today, it's "organ harvesting".


It's not but hey, don't let the facts confuse your usual hate-fest bullcrap. Carry on.

The title of the article: Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs.

Fun fact: you don't harvest organs from corpses.
Then what were they harvesting them from?

Another fun fact: it's not "Israel", it's the doctor in question who did this to anyone, not to dead terrorists only, and was kicked out from his position.

FTA:"Israel has admitted that pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians," Please note the use of the plural form of patholigist. Hell, the Army seems to be involved as well, hardly the lone wolf scenario you pulled from your ass.

If you're going to take up Tatsuma's slack, at least have one fact straight per post. Grabasstic post bro!
 
2009-12-21 07:08:32 AM
Apik0r0s: If you're going to take up Tatsuma's slack, at least have one fact straight per post. Grabasstic post bro!

Yes pahologists, under Dr Yehuda Hiss' authority. His orders.
Why not continue to quote ? "Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives." Can you find any other place not under the good doctor's control who did this ?

If you're going to ignore the facts from my post which obviously refuted your bullshiat, i would suggest not including them in your posts.

I'll repeat:

Fun fact: you don't harvest organs from corpses.
Another fun fact: it's not "Israel", it's the doctor in question who did this to anyone, not to dead terrorists only, and was kicked out from his position.

They didn't ask permission to do so and that is the problem, it's not like the killed people to take their organs (like the arab lie claims).
This happens in other countries.
Some countries like Spain, Austria and Belgium are doing this legally.

But hey, this is Israel so let the usuals vent a bit of hatred.

Try not to ignore the facts which you seem to dislike. Lets start with the fact that you lied about 'organs'.
 
2009-12-21 07:30:42 AM
Apik0r0s: Hell, the Army seems to be involved as well, hardly the lone wolf scenario you pulled from your ass.

The man was the head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute, i believe it's mentioned quite clearly in the article. Do i have to explain to you what that means and why he was responsible ? seriously, do you have the mental capacity of a 3 year old ?

Talking about pulling from asses, i see you deducted that the army is involved too. Please go on.
 
2009-12-21 07:34:12 AM
TappingTheVein: you deducted

Make that deduced. Hey you can spend the entire thread now over my spelling mistake so you can continue to ignore the facts which you obviously don't like.
 
2009-12-21 07:39:08 AM
TappingTheVein: Talking about pulling from asses, i see you deducted that the army is involved too. Please go on.

You're talking to willfully ignorant people. This whole misleading headline story is WAY too juicy for people like Farker T and Apik0r0s to give up easily. Fortunately the facts of the matter are obvious for any reasonable person to see. Key word is 'reasonable'.
 
2009-12-21 07:55:14 AM
C'mom, people.
Have a heart.
 
2009-12-21 07:56:44 AM
The bodies belonged to people who died from various causes, including diseases, accidents and Israeli-Palestinian violence, but there has been no evidence to back up the claim in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet that Israeli soldiers killed Palestinians for their organs. Angry Israeli officials called the report "anti-Semitic."

Ah, the ol' go-to "argument".
 
2009-12-21 08:04:25 AM
Elvis Christ: You're talking to willfully ignorant people. This whole misleading headline story is WAY too juicy for people like Farker T and Apik0r0s to give up easily. Fortunately the facts of the matter are obvious for any reasonable person to see. Key word is 'reasonable'.

Farker T is a known liar of some measure. He's quite baldfaced. He will literally go into a thread, see something he said, and then claim he never said it. Quite shameless about it.
 
2009-12-21 08:12:44 AM
Yea thats pretty damning. Wow.

Although, it still doesn't change the fact the Palestinians are blood thirsty barbarians.
 
2009-12-21 08:20:46 AM
I thought Jews were all about racial purity, can they really use Palestinian organs?
 
2009-12-21 08:24:23 AM
randomjsa: Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.


I'm sure this is lost on you, but uncivilized behavior does not give you carte blanche to violate civil rights.

A man brutally beats, rapes, and kills his wife. That doesn't give the police the right to kill, assault or molest the man once he's in custody.

The Japanese did horrible things to Allied forces in World War II - experiments, beheadings, torture, slave labor; that did not make it open season on Japanese POWs and we did not pursue revenge for atrocities after they surrendered.

Likewise, the actions of a portion of the Palestinian population, brutal, dishonorable, and cruel as they might be, do not justify an Israeli disregard of basic civil rights.

Civilized nations act according to the rule of law and along lines of basic human decency. When individual agents of those nations violate the human rights of others, even if they do so out of a sense of "patriotism," such violations should be punished by those nations themselves. I'm not sure that the State of Israel is a civilized nation - at times it seems to act more like a band of fascist thugs.
 
2009-12-21 08:27:29 AM
Quadruplator: I thought Jews were all about racial purity, can they really use Palestinian organs?

...fail.
 
2009-12-21 08:33:04 AM
indylaw: randomjsa: Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

I'm sure this is lost on you, but uncivilized behavior does not give you carte blanche to violate civil rights.

A man brutally beats, rapes, and kills his wife. That doesn't give the police the right to kill, assault or molest the man once he's in custody.

The Japanese did horrible things to Allied forces in World War II - experiments, beheadings, torture, slave labor; that did not make it open season on Japanese POWs and we did not pursue revenge for atrocities after they surrendered.

Likewise, the actions of a portion of the Palestinian population, brutal, dishonorable, and cruel as they might be, do not justify an Israeli disregard of basic civil rights.


It's downright intellectually dishonest to make that judgment when you're equalizing the use of corpses(that still get returned to their family) to the treatment of POWs or a civilian population.
 
2009-12-21 09:09:12 AM
For those of you who don't get it:


China has been using executed prisoners for organ donation for many years. The prisoners were idetified as donors while they were still alive. That's different from taking corneas from people who were killed, either soldiers or militants.

The former is an awful and grave violation of human rights, but the latter is an offense against the wishes of the dead person and his/her family. There's no comparison! You can call it a human rights issue but it's minor compared to what China has done.
 
2009-12-21 09:09:13 AM
beoswulf: indylaw: randomjsa:
See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.
--------
First...there was never any photos of Pali's dancing in the streets after 9/11...that was stock footage...look it up.

Just yet another reason why Israel may be the most hated country on the face of the earth..the rest of the world sees it....Ammmmuuuurica not so much.
 
2009-12-21 09:12:06 AM
Animatronik: For those of you who don't get it:


China has been using executed prisoners for organ donation for many years. The prisoners were idetified as donors while they were still alive. That's different from taking corneas from people who were killed, either soldiers or militants.

The former is an awful and grave violation of human rights, but the latter is an offense against the wishes of the dead person and his/her family. There's no comparison! You can call it a human rights issue but it's minor compared to what China has done.

-----------

We're not talking China...you bait and switch biatch
 
2009-12-21 09:19:53 AM
VerbalKentt: Animatronik: For those of you who don't get it:


China has been using executed prisoners for organ donation for many years. The prisoners were idetified as donors while they were still alive. That's different from taking corneas from people who were killed, either soldiers or militants.

The former is an awful and grave violation of human rights, but the latter is an offense against the wishes of the dead person and his/her family. There's no comparison! You can call it a human rights issue but it's minor compared to what China has done.
-----------

We're not talking China...you bait and switch biatch


No, it makes perfect sense. I use China as a defense for all of the trouble that I get myself in to.

"Mr. Conspiracy, you were going 90 in a 55!"

"China has very lax traffic laws."
 
2009-12-21 09:22:49 AM
VerbalKentt: beoswulf: indylaw: randomjsa:
See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.
--------
First...there was never any photos of Pali's dancing in the streets after 9/11...that was stock footage...look it up.


No, CNN did not air decade-old footage of Palestinians dancing in the streets. Eason Jordan, CNN's Chief News Executive, confirmed that the video used on CNN was in fact shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001, in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew, not during the Persian Gulf conflict of 1990-91 - a fact proved by its inclusion of comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden (whose name was unlikely to have come up ten years earlier in connection with the invasion and liberation of Kuwait) as well as the appearance in the video of post-1991 automobiles. The person who made the claim quoted above has since recanted.
[...]


Certainly CNN wasn't the only news organization to report on the reaction of some Palestinians to the events of September 11, as other outlets such as Reuters and the Los Angeles Times carried the same story. Also, other news outlets such as Fox and The Jerusalem Post reported that journalists were threatened for capturing images of Palestinian celebrations, making real footage of the event harder to obtain:
Palestinian Authority actions to confiscate film footage of Palestinians celebrating the terror attacks on the US were logical to prevent the media from painting the wrong picture of Palestinian sentiment, Bassam Abu Sharif, an adviser to PA Chairman Yasser Arafat.

"This was a normal preventive act . . . we don't want to give more to the Zionist propaganda which portrays all Palestinians as terrorists," he said. "The idea is that these people were not allowed to film, because a small group of people on film would represent the Palestinian people as a whole."
The footage was real. It's a shame, in fact, that its provenance was doubted because the lives of journalists who have attempted to capture similar acts on video have been threatened. That this tape made it out at all is a miracle. But CNN's reputation was besmirched by a single person, a Brazilian student who reported (without verification) that the footage in question actually came from a 1991 report


http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp (new window)

There was lots of footage taken of the Arabs celebrating 9/11, they just threatened and assaulted any Western photographer taking evidence that could be used make them look like Arabs celebrating 9/11..
 
2009-12-21 09:26:45 AM
In related news :

Israel to seek another 1b euros Holocaust in reparations from Germany

Link (new window)
 
2009-12-21 09:29:15 AM
at80eighty: loki see loki do: I think a first strike or large scale terrorist strike (nuke) might be what Israel would use to justify The End, suck in Afghanistan and India to light their burners, and you have the whole middle East to the subcontinent All Nuked Up.



there is absolutely no way that India (with either their past or present foreign policy) would enter such a flareup - unless you mean because of Pakistan joining in the fray because of state supported Islamic jihad motivations - in which case the target is still Israel

You'd probably see the US intervene before India


I actually did mean that Pakistan would prolly lob a few over to India as long as shiat was rolling, bringing India into the fun.

But that was last night, and I was drunk.
 
2009-12-21 09:49:46 AM
beoswulf: indylaw: randomjsa: Hmm, Palestinians blow themselves up and cause organ and tissue damage to Israeli people and then their families are rewarded for it...

Israel get organs tissue from dead Palestinians.

See where I'm going with this? Any sympathy I had for the Palestinians ended when they were dancing in the streets after 9/11.

I'm sure this is lost on you, but uncivilized behavior does not give you carte blanche to violate civil rights.

A man brutally beats, rapes, and kills his wife. That doesn't give the police the right to kill, assault or molest the man once he's in custody.

The Japanese did horrible things to Allied forces in World War II - experiments, beheadings, torture, slave labor; that did not make it open season on Japanese POWs and we did not pursue revenge for atrocities after they surrendered.

Likewise, the actions of a portion of the Palestinian population, brutal, dishonorable, and cruel as they might be, do not justify an Israeli disregard of basic civil rights.


It's downright intellectually dishonest to make that judgment when you're equalizing the use of corpses(that still get returned to their family) to the treatment of POWs or a civilian population.


Downright intellectually dishonest? So civilized people go through the bodies of non-consenting people to scrounge for spare parts? Do you think that's allowed under international law? Really?

I was responding to the farkstick before who was saying, essentially, that anything done to the Palestinians against their rights or their dignity is justified because (among other things) some of them celebrated 9/11. In that context, the comparison is absolutely valid.

The difference is at most one of degree, not character.
 
2009-12-21 09:52:16 AM
Broz_Tito: In related news :

Israel to seek another 1b euros Holocaust in reparations from Germany

Link (new window)


I recant what I said then....thanks for the info.

I still don't give a shiat...can you blame them...Israel drops a bomb on their homes and the shrapnel says "Made in the USA"
 
2009-12-21 09:54:20 AM
GAT_00 [TotalFark] Quote 2009-12-20 07:46:16 PM
Weaver95: it's not like I can do anything about it.

Yeah, because the appropriate reaction is to not give a shiat to human rights abuses. Of course, it is you.


Human rights?

These people were already dead. To use "human rights" in this context is intellectual dishonesty and lame equiviocation. What was done was wrong, but using "human rights" in this context paints all else you have to say on the topic unworthy of consideration.

Did they also have the right to medical treatment (though dead), to vote (though dead) and to live life to their fullest potential (though dead). For fun, lets list all the basic human rights we normally ascribe to the living but are not applicable to the DEAD!
 
2009-12-21 09:56:47 AM
Weaver95: digitalrain:
The key is knowing what to get worked up about and knowing when
to make like Francis and just lighten up.

yeah, except that we have an entire industry that manufactures outrage on demand. name the issue, they'll quote you a price and stir up whatever level of excitement you require. kind of makes it hard to get worked up over injustice once you've peeked behind the curtain.


I slightly disagree. From your statement, I might more easily draw the conclusion that it makes it hard to get outraged about tea-bagging or H1N1 vaccines if you look behind the curtain. Genuine issues should still raise your dander, though.


/Was a little surprised by the, "Meh".
//not to harp on it...
///also cynical
 
2009-12-21 10:01:34 AM
Have I not reason to lament
What man has made of man?
 
2009-12-21 10:03:45 AM
This just reinforces the idea that the Zionist State believes it has the justification to do whatever the hell it wants. Nazism infected their collective subconscious and they have become that which the claim to stand against. Sad and disgusting. Reality is anti-semetic! The world should have stood up in the 30's and 40's when this happened in Europe and it should do the same thing today. Whatever grace was bestowed on the Jews after the horror of the holocaust has been trampled and defiled by their heirs who bring shame and dishonor to everyone who suffered and perished at the hands of Nazi madmen.

//Of course the very act of having an opinion that doesn't rabidly support Israel doing whatever the frak it wants makes me an Anti-Semite

///Oh Well
 
2009-12-21 10:06:12 AM
TappingTheVein: Talking about pulling from asses, i see you deducted that the army is involved too. Please go on.

???

FTA: Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.
...
Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, [emphasis added]Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."


Looks like the military had something to do with it. This is pretty horrific. Beyond the Jewish strictures about getting buried with all of your bits, you'd think Israel might be a bit more picky about the treatment of the dead. You know, Holocaust and all.
 
2009-12-21 10:11:11 AM
I can't see the article when I click to go to the Guardian... sounds like a hoax to me.
 
2009-12-21 10:15:28 AM
mrsirjojo: Did they also have the right to medical treatment (though dead), to vote (though dead) and to live life to their fullest potential (though dead). For fun, lets list all the basic human rights we normally ascribe to the living but are not applicable to the DEAD!

I think the right to not be molested and chopped up for spare parts continues post-mortem. If all your rights ended at death, grave-robbing would be acceptable.

I'm not arguing you said it was okay (you did say it was wrong). But listing rights that end with death doesn't negate the ones that continue.
 
2009-12-21 10:15:36 AM
palelizard: Looks like the military had something to do with it.

No, it didn't. The bodies of soldiers reached the same facility and they were treated the same as anyone else.

This was the result of actions taken by the doctor mentioned in the article, not the military.
 
2009-12-21 10:16:01 AM
And now we get to watch Dr.Mengele's ghost falling over from an irony induced fit of uncontrollable laughter.
 
2009-12-21 10:42:25 AM
GAT_00: The world according to Weaver:

Blatant abuse of human rights: Meh
Government spending: ZOMGWHARRGARBL


Ooooh - don't forget:

Rendering of non-heterosexuals to second-class citizens
leaving their rights and liberties up to the whims of the majority: completely justified
 
2009-12-21 10:44:29 AM
TappingTheVein: No, it didn't. The bodies of soldiers reached the same facility and they were treated the same as anyone else.

This was the result of actions taken by the doctor mentioned in the article, not the military.


Again...
FTA: Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.

I'm just reading the article. Between the MP's statement and the military being the ones to confirm the report, I think there is likely some involvement.

The only info I have is coming from the article. If the MP is incorrect/lying (politicians have been known to do so), then I'm wrong.
 
2009-12-21 10:47:28 AM
Half of thread is retarded and did not read TFA.

Some policy was in place which meant almost all available organs were transplanted with or without consent from Israeli jews and arabs, along with palestinians who were also being treated the same way.


Antisemitic emphasis for the win
 
2009-12-21 10:53:43 AM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Elvis Christ: You're talking to willfully ignorant people. This whole misleading headline story is WAY too juicy for people like Farker T and Apik0r0s to give up easily. Fortunately the facts of the matter are obvious for any reasonable person to see. Key word is 'reasonable'.

Farker T is a known liar of some measure. He's quite baldfaced. He will literally go into a thread, see something he said, and then claim he never said it. Quite shameless about it.


And Mojo is an admitted wife beater. (new window)
 
2009-12-21 10:54:25 AM
LavenderWolf: Some policy was in place which meant almost all available organs were transplanted with or without consent from Israeli jews and arabs, along with palestinians who were also being treated the same way.


Antisemitic emphasis for the win


There's no doubt that the people here are anti-semetic, but even though they were stealing parts from Jews and Arabs alike doesn't make it any less wrong.

It's just a dick move.
 
2009-12-21 10:55:17 AM
palelizard: I'm just reading the article.

You don't know who Ahmed Tibi is. He's basically the definition of a 5th column. He used to be Arafat's adviser and best pal in the good ol' days. He'll say/do anything if it can hurt Israel in some way.
 
2009-12-21 11:11:50 AM
Lol at the obtuse bot.
 
2009-12-21 11:21:30 AM
gorgor: Mouser: Anyone care to explain how you can violate the "human rights" of a corpse?

APPROVES
http://tinyurl.com/ydeho3a
(copy and paste, NSFW)


I am SO not going to click on that link, man...
 
2009-12-21 01:22:42 PM
memebot_of_doom: "Meh" generally connotes indifference and boredom. For example, unless you're a complete sociopath, you wouldn't say 'meh' upon seeing someone fall from a window, even though you couldn't do anything to about it.

What are you if you laugh hysterically and take pictures? I think you don't actually know what that word means.
 
2009-12-21 01:36:34 PM
TappingTheVein:
Fun fact: you don't harvest organs from corpses.


One generally can't harvest from someone who's been dead for half the day, but the person does have to be dead before you can harvest the organ. And isn't a dead person a corpse? The person flat-lines before they do it, no?
 
2009-12-21 01:45:18 PM
beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead.

Not the point. You do not take anything from my body without my express permission, or my family's permission. Your body is the only thing you truly own in this life, and it is yours to do with what you wish. No one has permission to make that choice for you. This doctor violated that tenet by doing what he did, and should not only have been fired, but jailed.
 
2009-12-21 01:57:16 PM
Has anyone said "Meh" yet?

Organ harvesting from the dead to save the living? OK in my books!
 
2009-12-21 02:31:59 PM
TappingTheVein: palelizard: I'm just reading the article.

You don't know who Ahmed Tibi is. He's basically the definition of a 5th column. He used to be Arafat's adviser and best pal in the good ol' days. He'll say/do anything if it can hurt Israel in some way.


Hmmm. Okay, I'll reserve judgment on the military involvement then, since the source is suspect. The doc/facility is still a horror show. I'm all for donating organs (they can have mine when I'm done with them), but stealing them from the recently dead isn't the way to go about driving up 'donations'.

rewind2846: beoswulf: I don't know why the US doesn't do the same. You don't need your organs any more when you're dead.

Not the point. You do not take anything from my body without my express permission, or my family's permission. Your body is the only thing you truly own in this life, and it is yours to do with what you wish. No one has permission to make that choice for you. This doctor violated that tenet by doing what he did, and should not only have been fired, but jailed.


Exactly. NO. NOT YOURS. "You aren't using it anymore and I think somebody else should have it" isn't sufficient justification for theft.
 
2009-12-21 03:09:39 PM
vygramul: One generally can't harvest from someone who's been dead for half the day, but the person does have to be dead before you can harvest the organ. And isn't a dead person a corpse? The person flat-lines before they do it, no?

There is a difference between taking a bone from a severed leg and the liver from a brain-dead guy hooked to life-support.

Organs do not last very long on a corpse. Certain tissues do.

palelizard: Hmmm. Okay, I'll reserve judgment on the military involvement then, since the source is suspect. The doc/facility is still a horror show. I'm all for donating organs (they can have mine when I'm done with them), but stealing them from the recently dead isn't the way to go about driving up 'donations'.

The presumed consent laws like in Spain and Belgium should be implemented.
 
2009-12-21 03:16:24 PM
TheShavingofOccam123: programpogram

FTFY ;)
 
2009-12-21 03:18:24 PM
Fark is really slipping.

lh5.ggpht.com


www.originsofourfaith.com
 
2009-12-21 04:18:00 PM
TappingTheVein: There is a difference between taking a bone from a severed leg and the liver from a brain-dead guy hooked to life-support.

Organs do not last very long on a corpse. Certain tissues do.


I just want some clarification: do they take the liver from someone who came in from an auto accident whose heart is still beating?
 
2009-12-21 04:33:17 PM
vygramul: I just want some clarification: do they take the liver from someone who came in from an auto accident whose heart is still beating?

How does this apply to harvesting tissue from body parts ? or are you just debating the meaning of the term 'a corpse' ?
 
2009-12-21 04:39:17 PM
palelizard: Hmmm. Okay, I'll reserve judgment on the military involvement then, since the source is suspect. The doc/facility is still a horror show. I'm all for donating organs (they can have mine when I'm done with them), but stealing them from the recently dead isn't the way to go about driving up 'donations'.


FTFA:
The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."


That is the article's author, Ian Black, not Tibi. It's a little ambiguous, but if the military is making such confirmations, it would seem they are somehow involved.
 
2009-12-21 04:42:24 PM
TappingTheVein: The presumed consent laws like in Spain and Belgium should be implemented.

There may be some issues with that, especially in the Middle East. I know Judaism and I'm pretty sure Islam have some solid strictures against not getting buried with all your bits. Now, I'm not enough of a theologian to say those rules are waived when you're helping another or saving a life, but there are very likely fundamentalist sects in the area (of both religions) who are going to object very strongly to "Only if you say no" being the default setting.
 
2009-12-21 04:53:12 PM
TappingTheVein: vygramul: I just want some clarification: do they take the liver from someone who came in from an auto accident whose heart is still beating?

How does this apply to harvesting tissue from body parts ? or are you just debating the meaning of the term 'a corpse' ?


I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding. I'm not trying to debate you. In fact, you're in my favorites list for your sexcapade with a a one-eyed midget named Pedro.
 
2009-12-21 05:16:14 PM
Apik0r0s: That is the article's author, Ian Black, not Tibi. It's a little ambiguous, but if the military is making such confirmations, it would seem they are somehow involved.

Maybe because the military was referring to the bones/corneas of soldiers taken without permission ? it would seem you didn't know about the lawsuit involved.

It's hard not to notice how you stopped replying once i asked you why you lied.
 
2009-12-21 05:40:28 PM
Farker T: And Mojo is an admitted wife beater. (new window)

Laffin!

NOT AN ANALOGY, FARKER T. Gee, why would I ever classify you as a liar.
 
2009-12-21 05:57:56 PM
voodoochild: Broz_Tito: Who the fark is Weaver95 and why should we care ?

Someone who spends a lot of time posting. And I mean a lot. Check any thread at nearly anytime of day and this dude is there. A real celebrity.


His original posting in this thread is the first time I have ever seen him write a single word comment.
He has an opinion on absolutely everything, except, it would seem, human rights violations by Israel.
 
2009-12-21 05:59:09 PM
Dr. Mojo PhD: Farker T: And Mojo is an admitted wife beater. (new window)

Laffin!

NOT AN ANALOGY, FARKER T. Gee, why would I ever classify you as a liar.


So now you are saying that you were lying when you admitted to being a wife beater.

Interesting.
 
2009-12-21 06:03:32 PM
Suede head: Mengele-like behavior. The Israelis are the text-book example of the abused child growing up to be an abuser.

Awesome...

The Israelis are to be henceforth known as...

Mengele's Children


/talk about daddy issues
 
2009-12-21 06:18:54 PM
studebaker hoch: Those poor peaceful protesters.

Those poor peaceful tanks.


The idea is to get them to keep their heads down--so the RPG guys have a better chance of actually putting a real round on target.

Half Witt: This thread is beyond trolltastic, no thanks to The Guardian.

The doctor in question did this organ trafficking using the dead bodies of both Israelis and Palestinians, and God knows who else.

The first criminal complaints were from the families of dead Israeli soldiers in the late 1990s.

As has been said above, he was fired from his leadership post around 4 or 5 years ago. Perhaps what the Israeli government should have done differently was strip him of any medical titles or any affiliation with the medical center.

Plenty of Israelis are pissed at him, too.

The anti-Israel whargarbble in this this thread, fueled by The Guardian's misrepresentation of what the facts are, is just pathetic.


When you get to the bottom of most anti-Isreali things you find a considerable distortion of the truth. There's no surprise that it happened again.

jjorsett: Pffft. There's a state legislator in California who wants to change the donor laws here to "implied consent," meaning unless you explicitly say you don't want to be an organ donor, you're assumed to be ok with it. Maybe Israel was just a little ahead of its time.

Which is exactly how I feel it should work. You don't want to donate organs, you make your wishes known in advance. Otherwise the doctors should take the course of preserving life--harvest what's useful from the dead and put it in the living.

I would let anyone opt out--but it's both ways. You say "don't take my organs" and you are not eligible for a transplant.

Broz_Tito: In related news :

Israel to seek another 1b euros Holocaust in reparations from Germany

Link (new window)


Read the article--because of a law *GERMANY* passed. Germany said they should be paid, Israel is simply giving the amount that's owed under the *GERMAN* law.
 
2009-12-21 06:21:50 PM
Farker T: So now you are saying that you were lying when you admitted to being a wife beater.

Interesting.


Hypothetical scenarios, admissions of guilt, what's the difference amirite?
 
2009-12-21 06:22:47 PM
soupgoblin: voodoochild: Broz_Tito: Who the fark is Weaver95 and why should we care ?

Someone who spends a lot of time posting. And I mean a lot. Check any thread at nearly anytime of day and this dude is there. A real celebrity.

His original posting in this thread is the first time I have ever seen him write a single word comment.
He has an opinion on absolutely everything, except, it would seem, human rights violations by Israel.


Maybe he approves.

"Meh".
 
2009-12-21 06:56:06 PM
Well, if you can think of a better use for Palestinians, I'd like to hear it!
 
2009-12-21 07:04:05 PM
studebaker hoch: Isildur

Goddamn, that's some weapons grade bullshiat you're stockpiling there.

I said Israel won't allow other states to give money to Palestine, build anything there to help them.




I like the fact that Fark doesn't have an "edit post" option. You included "Why don't the other Arab states take the Palestinians?" as being a question answered by the claim that "Israel wouldn't have it".

Or if you somehow didn't mean to mean to group that in as being answered by the subsequent statement, then why do you think the other Arab states didn't take in the Palestinians (as Israel took in Jews fleeing the Arab countries) --instead of keeping them at their margins in refugee camps?


In the last war, Israel destroyed all six Palestinian concrete plants, even running over the delivery trucks with tanks. They refuse to allow them to be rebuilt, saying the Palestinians would only use the concrete "for war".

If you went in right now and offered to donate a concrete plant to Palestine, Israel would not allow it.


It might help if Hamas, you know, would stop using every resource they get their hands on largely for anti-Israel activities. (Those qassam rockets just appear out of thin air, right? It's not like any labor put into those could be more productively invested in actually helping their own people, right? Because clearly, firing rockets at Israel is really getting them somewhere!)

Compare between the current state of the West Bank and Gaza. Hmm, I wonder why things are better in the West Bank. More importantly, compare the circumstances of all the Palestinian territory before and after they started a second Intifada supposedly in outrage over a guy walking on a hill. (for those with short memories, that's what the claimed impetus was for the first few months. Don't believe me? Look up newspapers from those dates.)

Of course, I say supposedly because it was a pretext.

Arafat was the one that walked away from the talks. Period.
If the Palestinians would choose leaders that would stop taking them down the disastrous path of intifada, they would once again be a hell of a lot better off and could get their own independant state like they should.

I find it incredible how short many people's memories are. At the end of the 90s, there was peace, and a lasting treaty establishing an independent Palestinian state was a hair's breadth away. Then, what happened? Arafat threw it away. it could go back to where it was (or most of the way to where it was-- the years of fighting have turned many Israelis cynical, weakening the "doves" and strengthening the "hawks") but it's not going to get there via Qassams and suicide bombs.
 
2009-12-21 08:54:14 PM
Isildur: It might help if Hamas, you know, would stop using every resource they get their hands on largely for anti-Israel activities.

Actually, one of the main reasons for their popularity among Palestinians is they DON'T spend all their resources on anti-Israel activities; about 80-90% of their funds go towards social programs such as hospitals, schools, etc.
 
2009-12-21 10:06:12 PM
Isildur
It might help if Hamas, you know, would stop using every resource they get their hands on largely for anti-Israel activities.

How, exactly, can concrete factories, power plants, and farms be used for anti-Israeli activities? Chicken Bombs??

Compare between the current state of the West Bank and Gaza. Hmm, I wonder why things are better in the West Bank.

What the fark

(for those with short memories, that's what the claimed impetus was for the first few months. Don't believe me? Look up newspapers from those dates.)

As if newspapers ever print people's real reasons... Oh, sure; they'll print someone's real reason; they'll print a reason; for example, just yesterday I saw an article in a newspaper claiming that anti-Mountaintop Removal activists in Appalachia were motivated solely because of "reverence" for mountains! Clearly, that kind of oversimplification is insulting, but it fits the narrative.

Similarly, the printed reason behind the Second Intifada (most actions of which were nonviolent FWIW) was because Palestinians are supposedly psychotic religious fanatics. Right. Sure. I'm sure the 30-year-old occupation had nothing to do with it.

At the end of the 90s, there was peace, and a lasting treaty establishing an independent Palestinian state was a hair's breadth away. Then, what happened? Arafat threw it away.

The Palestinians have never been seriously offered a free and independent state. I'm sure jon snow will be here shortly to provide exactly a citation that shows that... I can never keep straight if that one was the one where they were offered a huge chunk of the Negev desert in exchange for Israeli settlements crisscrossing the West Bank, a continued Israeli military presence in supposedly-free Palestinian territory, and Israeli control over Palestine's borders, resources, and economy... oh, wait, that's every single offer Israel's ever made.

Israel has the ability to end the occupation, the primary motivation for militants and terrorists, tomorrow; I will again point out that Hamas held up their end of the 2008 cease-fire and Israel did not; and let me again point out that Israel's settlements in the West Bank are in violation of international law, necessitate the military occupation of the West Bank, and serve no defense purpose whatsoever. Israel's actions are only permissible to people who have no respect for human decency.
 
2009-12-21 10:13:50 PM
RanDomino: Israel's actions are only permissible to people who have no respect for human decency Goyim humanity.

FTFY.
 
2009-12-21 11:06:56 PM
RanDomino: Isildur
It might help if Hamas, you know, would stop using every resource they get their hands on largely for anti-Israel activities.

How, exactly, can concrete factories, power plants, and farms be used for anti-Israeli activities? Chicken Bombs??


Very easily. Use them to attack from. Just because something has a legitimate civilian purpose doesn't mean it can't also be used for military purpose. Hamas is a master of using protected locations as weapons depots etc. Look at the IDF stuff on You-Tube--you'll see plenty of tape of bombs going home on things like mosques and then secondary explosions. Secondaries are almost always due to hitting explosives.

Compare between the current state of the West Bank and Gaza. Hmm, I wonder why things are better in the West Bank.

What the fark

(for those with short memories, that's what the claimed impetus was for the first few months. Don't believe me? Look up newspapers from those dates.)


Things *ARE* looking up in the West Bank.

Similarly, the printed reason behind the Second Intifada (most actions of which were nonviolent FWIW) was because Palestinians are supposedly psychotic religious fanatics. Right. Sure. I'm sure the 30-year-old occupation had nothing to do with it.

The real reason for the second intifada was Arafat had gotten all he could from negotiating without actually making any concessions. Since he wasn't actually going to make any concessions they had to switch back to war.

The Palestinians have never been seriously offered a free and independent state. I'm sure jon snow will be here shortly to provide exactly a citation that shows that... I can never keep straight if that one was the one where they were offered a huge chunk of the Negev desert in exchange for Israeli settlements crisscrossing the West Bank, a continued Israeli military presence in supposedly-free Palestinian territory, and Israeli control over Palestine's borders, resources, and economy... oh, wait, that's every single offer Israel's ever made.

If they didn't like the exact details they could have made a counter-offer. They didn't, though, because that could actually lead to peace, something Arafat was completely unwilling to accept. The only conditions they'll accept peace under is the destruction of Israel.

Israel has the ability to end the occupation, the primary motivation for militants and terrorists, tomorrow;

Nope. Where would all the Israelis go? Most of them don't have other citizenships. By Palestinian standards *ALL* of Israel is occupied territory.

Anyway, there was war before 67--why should a return to the 67 borders produce any better a situation than existed then?

I will again point out that Hamas held up their end of the 2008 cease-fire and Israel did not; and let me again point out that Israel's settlements in the West Bank are in violation of international law, necessitate the military occupation of the West Bank, and serve no defense purpose whatsoever. Israel's actions are only permissible to people who have no respect for human decency.

Hamas has never upheld a cease fire for any extended period, nor did they in 2008.

1) Even if Hamas doesn't shoot it lets others shoot from Hamas territory--and considers Israel shooting back as breaking the cease fire.

2) Beyond this they were tunneling under the border. It was Israel dealing with the tunnel that was the supposed break of the cease-fire.

3) The occupation *DOES* serve a defensive purpose--it makes it much harder to lob rockets into Israel. How many rockets fly from occupied areas??
 
2009-12-21 11:19:22 PM
Degree Absolute: diddleysquat: What a sickening story, it's so obvious that the potential for crimes against humanity is high in this situation.

I thought it quite uplifting what with the failed terrorists' organs being harvested to save the lives of the people they intended to kill. Thoroughly moving. Two thumbs up.


Hallelujah, and say Amen. Finally, someone with their head screwed on right.

Feh, what the hell is wrong with these damn sheep. Sickening story, human rights abuses, horrifying scandal. Puh-effing-leez. Come back to me after the next bus explodes in Jerusalem and we finish peeling shreds of people off the tree branches and pack 'em in a sandwich-size baggie to send off to Dr. Hiss so's he can identify them and look in the eyes of the mothers as he explains how there's no need to order coffins 'cause there's nothing left to put in them, mmmkay? Because that's what Dr. Hiss did, day in day out, for more years than some of you holier-than-thous have been alive.

Come off your high horses, friends. This was not some act of vengeance or retaliation or act of anything at all, in fact, directed *against* Palestinians. It was inappropriate and unacceptable conduct, to be sure, but it was not directed against any one group. It was an "equal opportunity" act, perpetrated against Palestinians, Jews, and those of other faiths and nationalities who live among us. Dr. Hiss was called to account, accepted responsibility, and was fired. Working procedures at the Medical Examiner's office were changed to ensure that in future proper permissions are obtained, and these new procedures have been in effect for several years. The events being reported now occured more than a decade ago. Finally, they did not involve organ transplants but tissues and bone taken for research.

I am very much on the left wing of the Israeli political spectrum but the overblown and misapplied sanctimoniousness in this thread is ridiculous. Save it for someplace where it's warranted.
 
2009-12-22 12:08:16 AM
Sum Dum Gai: Isildur: It might help if Hamas, you know, would stop using every resource they get their hands on largely for anti-Israel activities.

Actually, one of the main reasons for their popularity among Palestinians is they DON'T spend all their resources on anti-Israel activities; about 80-90% of their funds go towards social programs such as hospitals, schools, etc.


The PA is more popular than Hamas now, which means Hamas had to royally screw up. Anyways they don't need concrete and steel imports which would end up reinforcing their smuggling tunnels and bunkers. The UN has been building traditional mud brick homes that are much more environmentally friendly and can be produced from local resources, providing jobs and boosting the economy.
 
2009-12-22 01:29:23 AM
Loren
3) The occupation *DOES* serve a defensive purpose--it makes it much harder to lob rockets into Israel. How many rockets fly from occupied areas??

So why exactly are civilian settlements required for that? (difficulty: without violating the Geneva Conventions, and without letting militants claim that Israel's use of civilians in a military role opens up those civilians as legitimate military targets)
 
2009-12-22 06:16:05 PM
RanDomino: As if newspapers ever print people's real reasons...

Oh, for fark's sake... let me guess, another person proud of the fact that he doesn't read newspapers, because they're supposedly so slanted. While blogs and and other informal channels are clearly so much more objective and reliable.


The Palestinians have never been seriously offered a free and independent state. I'm sure jon snow will be here shortly to provide exactly a citation that shows that...

...because if some guy on the internet posts something, it must be true. But you can't trust a word of what newspapers report, because THEY have an agenda. That's some real critical thinking there.

Fine, go on and enjoy your personal reality, safe and secure behind your impenetrable wall of "well that's just what THE MAN would have you believe", impervious to any inconvenient possibilities (pops, 2000 NYT essay) that might conflict with your world view.
 
2009-12-22 08:20:36 PM
Isildur
Oh, for fark's sake... let me guess, another person proud of the fact that he doesn't read newspapers, because they're supposedly so slanted. While blogs and and other informal channels are clearly so much more objective and reliable.

Newspapers often print some good information if you read between the lines. Breaking online news from corporate-style media sites is often reasonably accurate. It's like when they interview someone- you have to consider their socioeconomic background and other aspects of their situation (One reason so many Americans thought Iran was having some kind of revolution was because the pro-Western Iranians are of the economic class and social situation that uses technology; meaning theirs was the only point of view reaching the Internet. But I knew it was going to peter out because, even though so-called 'revolutionary' views were the overwhelming majority of Iranians on the Internet, when you consider how few Iranians are of that class, it was clear that it was going nowhere.).

You need a bunch of different, contradictory sources (which you know usually aren't trying to lie or misrepresent). You need to do your own investigation of any story (the immediate history of the people and places involved; the 'grand' history, things like the entire history of every country involved, the amount of wealth and social stratification and the history thereof; and the technical details such as general information of the individuals involved and even the layout of the location- all of which is only feasible with the internet).

Corporate media sources use intentionally tricky language to muddle and distort without outright lying. For example, the passive voice; instead of saying, "An Israeli settler killed a Palestinian farmer yesterday", they might say, "A Palestinian was killed yesterday" (by whom? It's not important, don't worry about it, just be glad we printed the story at all). We're all familiar with the invented, speculative story; such as, "Do most Palestinians support Terrorism?" with seventeen paragraphs built around a ten-minute interview with a right-wing academic, an uncited twenty-year-old poll taken out of context, and an oversimplified version of history with a token rebuttal by someone who aligns with the other major political party or otherwise otherwise has a mainstream, pro-capitalism, pro-nationalism view (both of which the media takes for granted, making its analytic potential stillborn). Stories are buried or promoted on the lie of "relevance" (so Tiger Woods' affairs are apparently the most important thing in the world for three weeks; meanwhile, the entrenchment of an illegal government in a Central American country of seven million warrants no more than a few minutes of airtime). And of course there's sheer misrepresentation; the other day I read a story about Mountaintop Removal in Appalachia which claimed that miners (not the real target of protesters, but portrayed that way because it fits the media's story) are primarily motivated by job security (mostly true), but that protesters are primarily motivated by some la-la hippy-dippy new-age spiritual reverence for mountains (which is a heap of bull).

He offered Arafat virtually all the West Bank, including the vital Jordan Valley, requiring the uprooting of 40,000 Israeli settlers. He offered what amounts to right of return of thousands of Palestinians to Israel, backed up by a reported huge commitment by Clinton to pay Palestinians around the world to not return. And most unthinkable only a year ago, he offered to share sovereignty with a new Palestinian state in portions of Jerusalem.

"virtually" "what amounts to" "huge" "portions"... that paragraph says nothing.


...because if some guy on the internet posts something, it must be true. But you can't trust a word of what newspapers report, because THEY have an agenda.

He cites everything he writes. Everything he writes is citations. He doesn't even say anything most of the time, just posts citations that make his point for him. So his credibility is never an issue; it's simply irrelevant. Like Wikipedia, it doesn't work that way: either something is cited, or untrustworthy.
 
2009-12-23 04:48:08 PM
RanDomino: You need a bunch of different, contradictory sources (which you know usually aren't trying to lie or misrepresent). You need to do your own investigation of any story (the immediate history of the people and places involved; the 'grand' history, things like the entire history of every country involved, the amount of wealth and social stratification and the history thereof; and the technical details such as general information of the individuals involved and even the layout of the location- all of which is only feasible with the internet).

So, clearly before the internet, no one could feasibly have a good understanding of such matters.

Corporate media sources use intentionally tricky language to muddle and distort without outright lying. For example, the passive voice; instead of saying, "An Israeli settler killed a Palestinian farmer yesterday", they might say, "A Palestinian was killed yesterday" (by whom? It's not important, don't worry about it, just be glad we printed the story at all).

Oh please, seriously?
According to you, they reserve the passive voice for when violence is commited by Israelis? Yeah, no:

One hundred and fifty-nine Israelis were killed, including 39 civilians. -BBC

Passive voice isn't a trick, it's a perfectly normal way describing an event. The assumption is that you have the intelligence and attention span to read the entire article. Pop quiz: Find an article like the example you gave, where it isn't clear, to anyone reading more than just that sentence, who killed whom (in a situation where that was ascertainable at publishing time).

And corporate media isn't some single unit. Anytime I hear someone -- whether left winger, right winger, libertarian or whatever -- refer to "the mainstream media" being biased to this or that direction, I do an internal facepalm. There isn't some big cabal of leaders of media companies who meet to plot what people should hear. (...although plenty people believe that even literally -- and when such people start to talk about the "media owners and the bankers" it gets clear in a hurry what group they're ranting about.) The various companies vary, and are mostly just trying to give the public what the public wants. For the people who want accurate news, there are mostly accurate news sources. For the people who only want to hear news that confirms their own beliefs, their are channels for that.)


We're all familiar with the invented, speculative story; such as, "Do most Palestinians support Terrorism?" with seventeen paragraphs built around a ten-minute interview with a right-wing academic, an uncited twenty-year-old poll taken out of context, and an oversimplified version of history with a token rebuttal by someone who aligns with the other major political party or otherwise otherwise has a mainstream, pro-capitalism, pro-nationalism view (both of which the media takes for granted, making its analytic potential stillborn).

We're all familliar, lol. You don't notice the irony of using such a presumptive phrase? One could say "We're all familliar with people who make up a particularly negative example and present that as the rule for all media outlets."


Stories are buried or promoted on the lie of "relevance"

The news companies present what they think appeals to a set of viewers they're in a position to influence. The overriding professional concern of most people who manage to work their way to the top of the corporate world is how to continue making money and if possible how to make more. It may sound trite, but mostly they're giving people what they want. Moreover they have become specialized so they can target various demographics. It wouldn't shock me if some of the editors at a place like Fox news don't personally have any real right leanings personally, the same way a person can work in an Italian restaurant but not have a particular liking for Italian food. Catering to the right wing demographic is their job. Like it or not, people are getting what they want, so blame the public if you don't like what's in newspapers or on TV, not some imaginary coalition of media people who scheme to deceive the public.

(Which is why Drew Curtis's rants about the media promoting "fark" over substance is so ridiculously hypocritical--just like them, he makes a living over giving the people the "not news" they want, the only difference is they do the creative work, while he hit gets a career out of providing people with a convenience -- a portal where they can more efficiently lap up that same Not News.)


He offered Arafat virtually all the West Bank, including the vital Jordan Valley, requiring the uprooting of 40,000 Israeli settlers. He offered what amounts to right of return of thousands of Palestinians to Israel, backed up by a reported huge commitment by Clinton to pay Palestinians around the world to not return. And most unthinkable only a year ago, he offered to share sovereignty with a new Palestinian state in portions of Jerusalem.

"virtually" "what amounts to" "huge" "portions"... that paragraph says nothing.



Really? Because silly me, I thought I saw a 40,000 number in there somewhere, and yeah, "portions", because no, Israel Isn't going to cede all of Jerusalem. And as it was an op-ed essay, it did not have accompanying maps, so admittedly, he's not giving the all the topographic details.*


He cites everything he writes. Everything he writes is citations. He doesn't even say anything most of the time, just posts citations that make his point for him. So his credibility is never a ...

Funny thing about citations: People hardly ever actually check them. I've noticed this problem on Wikipedia. When someone makes a somewhat improbable statement without a citation and it often gets flagged quickly if it's not in a very obscure article that's rarely read. Put a citation link there to some website that exactly what the link text actually claims it is, and it stands a good chance of staying there for quite a while longer.

For example, in an article about domestic abuse, I came across a quote attributed to a judge who had made some rulings on the subject. The quote sounded... weird... like the judge had some sort of bias against fathers. The citation link's text said it was from a legal journal, but the actual page it actually linked to was a page from a website put together by some association of father's who have lost custody. A search for the quuoted text in the actual legal journal that it was claimed to have been from came up empty. It was a fabrication. I deleted that paragraph, as I've done with statements in other article that were misleadingly cited, but it's often striking, if you look through the revision history, how long and through how many revisions material can last if there's a citation claimed.

Pop quiz time again: Did you actually check that BBC link I gave earlier, and find the text I quoted, or did you just assume it was an accurate quote?


In general, when it comes to mainstream media versus non-professional sources, I'd like to make the following point: The average unpaid blogger, if he says something untrue, at worst will get criticised in some comments below his entry, and maybe lose a few readers. A professional reporter who deliberately twists facts (or doesn't check his sources well enough -- see Dan Rather's case) can suffer a serious blow to his career.

That's not to say the mainstream media don't have their limitations. For example in the after the the forged National Guard service documents fiasco, there remained a number of other pieces of evidence that pointed to Bush not having fully served his claimed period of service. But by that point, the public's mental association of the Bush/National Guard case with negligent journalism was apparently enough to get all the networks to not want to pursue the story anymore, for risk of getting connected in the public's mind with the forgery mess.


____________
*If I can find such a map, I'll post it later tonight assuming the thread is still open. As it is I'm on the verge of being late for an appointment because of the time I've spent on this post. (yeah, yeah, "I have to be there in 26 minutes" and so on. =P)
 
2009-12-24 12:47:30 AM
Out of curiosity, the map Jon Snow cites, is it the one on the left on this page (new window), as opposed to the map on the right according to Dennis Ross, U.S. Middle East ambassador during the Clinton administration?

(btw, their link for the transcript of his speech,
http://www.cceia.org/viewMedia.php/prmTemplateID/8/prmID/5000
is now broken. The page has moved to
http://www.cceia.org/resources/transcripts/5000.html (new window) )

Further descriptions of Ross's book can be found easily via Google, or you can read the book. Thanks, but I'll take the word of one of the central mediators (under a Democratic Party administration, mind you) over the word of Yassir Arafat.
 
Displayed 520 of 520 comments



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report