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(Detroit News)   Detroit parents want teachers, school officials jailed over low student test scores   (detnews.com) divider line 428
    More: Fail, DPS, Detroit Federation of Teachers, Mayor Dave Bing, student test, financial managers, Mr Johnson, Robert Bobb, Sharlonda Buckman  
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14064 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2009 at 2:50 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-12-13 10:16:19 PM  
Fano: I think you have seen the work of a good troll

What? With a name like that, a single long post, and not responding to any of the responses? Definitely not a troll.

/Troll or not, i don't think her story is all that uncommon. I personally do believe homework is evil and that no benefit of ANY kind is gained from it. Unless you're a sadist, in which case that's just sick.
 
2009-12-13 10:19:36 PM  
John Dewey: not responding to any of the responses?

the post was a poorly formated response to me name calling
 
MIU
2009-12-13 10:22:13 PM  
Oh_Enough_Already: The moment a leftist ideologue has their preconceived notions about "equality" or the benefits of "diversity" vivisected before their very eyes they exit the discussion and only further entrench themselves in their naive beliefs however impeached they may be.

Not every ethnically diverse country is as farked up and dysfunctional as yours.
 
2009-12-13 10:23:11 PM  
Hey I have an idea. Why don't we blame everyone and just shut the fark up.
 
2009-12-13 10:23:56 PM  
Melgania: I tend to agree with the people who say that a culture that values education is by far the most important thing. Like, I'd roughly put it as a 80-90%, if not more, influence in how well people do at school. The unfortunate thing about America (I'm not American but this is the feeling I get from all these threads, etc) is that low socioeconomic status is closely linked to race, so it's impossible to bring this up without being shouted down as a racist.

Just a few weeks ago I was thinking why certain developing countries did pretty well to pull themselves out of poverty over the last few decades, while others are still completely messed up. I was especially thinking of the likes of East and South-East Asia versus say Africa or Latin America. Of course it's not a single-issue answer (and I don't pretend this explains *everything*), but I think a culture that highly values education goes a very long way:

When you have a culture where parents are truly dedicated to their kids' education, and I mean, dedicated to a fault - Taiwanese "ghetto parents" locking kids up in their bedrooms with nothing but a bowl of rice, a jug or water, a potty and their homework - it is a very different environment to one where education is barely valued at all, if not outright rejected as "not keepig it real", or whatever the parlance is.

The Asian "tiger economies" were just the same sort of backwater shiatholes 50 years ago as bad bits of Africa or South America. You have to ask the question how they pulled themselves out of it, and why the others didn't. I personally think a huge part of it is this massive emphasis on education and betterment that's a central part of the philosophy and culture in most of the region. Also, there are issues such as civic culture versus a more disorganised tribal culture, etc etc. But at the root of the problem is the education thing.

At any rate, "failing education systems" almost always seem to me to be a symptom, rather than a cause. Simply throwing money at an education system or hiring more teachers doesn't solve much if the underlying social culture doesn't value education (if not outright rejecting it as a core social value).

/$0.02


Repeated for truth. If should be posted in bold, and put in every public school conference room in the country. Then sent home to every parent once a month.
 
2009-12-13 10:26:49 PM  
Parental involvement and emphasis on education's value have more to do with a kid's success than their teachers do. want to find the root cause of low-performing students? Look at their "parents."

I teach in a "failing" inner-city school (have been there for 9 years now). We offer credit-recovery labs, FREE after-school tutoring in all subjects, summer school, zero-period courses, etc. and yet it's still somehow the teachers' fault that students score low on standardized tests. Never mind that I teach art, and still manage to have a 30-40 percent fail rate each semester. "Why," you may ask? Because many of the kids just don't do the work or show up to class. You call home and the parents say things like, "I'll try to get him to show up tomorrow," or, "I don't know what to do either." Kids get free lunch and breakfast because of their "poverty" but have I-Phones and name-brand clothes; and they still expect you to give them a new pencil every day and supply their paper! Cute huh?

Parents are the problem - plain & simple.
 
2009-12-13 10:28:25 PM  
BTW - My school is about 70% latino and 15% african-american for those that care about such things...
 
2009-12-13 10:32:43 PM  
Since no one is comenting, I'll continue.

It amazes me that we're seen as a "failing" school while still managing to send kids to Cal, UCSD, Brown, and other such universities. Somehow those kids managed to excell at our "failing" school, so it must not be the teachers. What was the determining variable then? Parents (which lead to motivated students). The parents cared, so the kids cared. The "failing" teachers somehow graduated top-notch students. Hmmm.
 
2009-12-13 10:37:37 PM  
SchlingFocker: "Somebody needs to pay for this. Somebody needs to go to jail, and it shouldn't be the kids."

That's right, somebody should.

The worthless ghetto parents who'd rather sit back and get their hair donedid and drink malt liquor all day instead of actually ensure their children are learning.

That's who should be in jail.


FTFM
 
2009-12-13 10:41:32 PM  
It's not the teachers' or the school system's fault that the parents are idiots.

And it's no surprise that idiots that breed, tend to add to the idiot pool.

A kid is either smart enough to learn the material, or he/she isn't. A teacher or school, most times make no difference. They all teach the same things.

It's up to the kid to be able to learn, and it's the parent's responsibility to make sure the kid is doing his/her part, not anyone else's.
 
2009-12-13 10:44:16 PM  
sexy-fetus: I have a way to get parents involved
No child tax credit if your school aged child doesn't maintain passing grades.


I've read this whole thread, and I think that this is the smartest proposal so far.

Your child is stupid? Can't be bothered to teach him/her? Fine, but society is not going to subsidize your ignorant spawn. Pay up.

/Deduct a portion of welfare benefits as well.
 
2009-12-13 10:46:33 PM  
SubBass49: ..... Kids get free lunch and breakfast because of their "poverty" but have I-Phones and name-brand clothes; and they still expect you to give them a new pencil every day and supply their paper! Cute huh?

Parents are the problem - plain & simple.


When I was in high school (20+ years ago) my family was the $1 above the aid level-poor, but not dirt poor. It always annoyed me that the "really poor" kids (white and black) had nice cars, in style clothes and shoes-really great things we couldn't afford. These were also the kids that screwed around and didn't learn anything. All I got was an education and a lesson to work for what I wanted.
 
2009-12-13 10:47:56 PM  
GHGlaser: SchlingFocker: "Somebody needs to pay for this. Somebody needs to go to jail, and it shouldn't be the kids."

That's right, somebody should.

The worthless ghetto parents who'd rather sit back and get their hairhur donedid and drink malt liquor all day instead of actually ensureinsure their children chillruns areis learning.

That's who should be in jail.

FTFM
FTFY
 
2009-12-13 10:49:57 PM  
hyperflame: sexy-fetus: I have a way to get parents involved
No child tax credit if your school aged child doesn't maintain passing grades.

I've read this whole thread, and I think that this is the smartest proposal so far.

Your child is stupid? Can't be bothered to teach him/her? Fine, but society is not going to subsidize your ignorant spawn. Pay up.

/Deduct a portion of welfare benefits as well.


You don't go far enough. Mandatory birth control and drug testing for all on government benefits.
 
2009-12-13 10:50:50 PM  
If my three year old can read and your 10 year old can't, I'm thinking the issue is a little closer to home than teachers.

Most kids have an incredible capacity to learn, but the habits that foster enjoyment of learning in a child start very young - well before school age. We have read to our son since he was young, and have made reading, math, and science all very fun things for him.

The problem isn't stupid kids, it's parents that don't give a shiat until they can point the finger away from themselves.

/Had my kid in my teens
//Son's dad and I both work 50+ hours a week
///If I can do it, these people can do it.
 
2009-12-13 10:51:23 PM  
RickRR: SubBass49: ..... Kids get free lunch and breakfast because of their "poverty" but have I-Phones and name-brand clothes; and they still expect you to give them a new pencil every day and supply their paper! Cute huh?

Parents are the problem - plain & simple.

When I was in high school (20+ years ago) my family was the $1 above the aid level-poor, but not dirt poor. It always annoyed me that the "really poor" kids (white and black) had nice cars, in style clothes and shoes-really great things we couldn't afford. These were also the kids that screwed around and didn't learn anything. All I got was an education and a lesson to work for what I wanted.


I was right there with ya buddy. The idea of "Back-to-school" shopping was a totally novel idea to me throughout my entire childhood. I never got back to school clothes. I wore the same shiat from 6th trough 9th grade, and only replaced clothes when they wore out. Hell, I used to wear a "My name is Greg" hand-me-down shirt from my cousin...and my name is Jeremy. Being poor sucked. Too many kids now see it as a benefit...free stuff and no responsibility.

/don't worry, the education and life lessons we got are worth more than any material crap those kids ended up with.
 
2009-12-13 10:51:25 PM  
eraser8: MightySapphire: The problem with Detroit is the parents are all morons. Intelligence is genetic. Dumb people make dumb kids.

I think the problem is that the parents are uneducated. I don't know whether they're actually stupid. Although practically it's easy to confuse the two.


please leave immediately.
your rational thought and common sense is making it difficult to throw hyperbole and rhetoric around.
 
2009-12-13 10:54:46 PM  
Fano: steamingpile: NannyStatePark: Now my kid hates me as well as her teachers. And is still flunking a subject because, apparently, sacrificing my entire life just isn't good enough.

Quit your whining and hire a tutor then, almost every school system has one.

I think you have seen the work of a good troll

/with an uneducated child


She has the material mastered so a tutor would be worthless. She is refusing to use cursive, and isn't completing in class assignments because she cannot get along with a ridiculous teacher. What can I do short of beating her? I'm sure she's on the upswing anyway.

Ok, the bit about my entire life was a bit melodramatic but it's really easy to get worked up over this, because, well, it's my entire life and all. Who's Who probably is some BS bookselling racket, I haven't looked into it much. My "credentials" are really fairly average, but they do indicate a lack of what someone could call true stupidity.

My point is, where is the extra time? People are picking on me right and left, but they aren't suggesting where the extra time in a day is coming from, and only one person even addressed that as the main idea in my post. Why attack who I am instead of addressing what I posted? What sort of fabulous things are parents really supposed to do at home? Parental involvement is a relative, subjective term. If a WASP SAHM can't pull off perfection, and she doesn't expect a poor person from that hellhole Detroit to come close, well that's just how I see it.

Teaching is a profession. The results of these particular educators are obvious.
 
2009-12-13 10:56:21 PM  
Teachers should be legally allowed to hit the students.

/that is all.
 
2009-12-13 10:57:50 PM  
NannyStatePark: She has the material mastered so a tutor would be worthless. She is refusing to use cursive, and isn't completing in class assignments because she cannot get along with a ridiculous teacher. What can I do short of beating her? I'm sure she's on the upswing anyway.

And somehow you think a teacher can motivate your kid when you can't? Add to that the way you ridicule the teacher, and it's no wonder your precious snowflake is an embarassment that doesn't respect their education. You're the type of parent that makes teachig almost unbearable.
 
2009-12-13 11:02:33 PM  
My honest answer is to conference with the teacher and if that falls short, ask for a class change, or just tough it out for the next 5 months.

Cursive is a dead form, schools shouldn't be bothering with it anymore.

If she's not doing in-class assignments and it's because of boredom/she's already mastered material, I wouldn't worry too much. Besides, if she really farks up her grades, she can always go to community college for a year or two and then get her degree somewhere else.

And I do think your story is more common than most people realize and is one of the reasons I have serious issues with homework.
 
2009-12-13 11:07:58 PM  
NannyStatePark: She is refusing to use cursive, and isn't completing in class assignments because she cannot get along with a ridiculous teacher.

Actually, refusing, or probably more resisting, to use cursive is becoming a common occurrence amongst middle and high school students who for the most part do not write by hand commonly outside of the classroom. It begs to compare to an employee who today can not add up and charge tax because the cash register is malfunctioning.
 
2009-12-13 11:08:38 PM  
I was in honors math in 10th grade. Not too bad. First day of 11th, the trig teacher assigned 3 chapters of homework to be turned in for a grade the next day. This was one class out of six. Dropped his class the next day-had the math credits I needed, so mom was OK with it. Some teachers think that homework is the only way to learn. If every teacher piled it on like that, kids would not have time to sleep. Thankfully he was the only teacher that thought several hours of homework each day was a good idea.
 
2009-12-13 11:11:51 PM  
Kids need to have their intellectual curiosity stimulated and rewarded at an early age. And just put books in their room from the day their born. Eventually they're gonna reach to the top shelf and take a crack at that ancient copy of Scarlet Pimpernel.
 
2009-12-13 11:13:12 PM  
Huskadoodle: Actually, refusing, or probably more resisting, to use cursive is becoming a common occurrence amongst middle and high school students who for the most part do not write by hand commonly outside of the classroom. It begs to compare to an employee who today can not add up and charge tax because the cash register is malfunctioning.

I don't agree with this at all. While it is true that cursive is used to make writing by hand easier, in what profession do people still write anything by hand that will be seen outside of the office? Whereas, being able to calculate someone's purchases and sales tax are rudimentary mathematics that I would hope anyone in the 7th grade and beyond could do.

And aside from that, cursive is rarely taught anymore because it takes time from math and reading.

In short, anyone who is still teaching cursive is wasting the time of their students. It is a skill, and a rather outdated one at that.
 
2009-12-13 11:20:51 PM  
NannyStatePark: Heamer: Some of the kids I teach see me more in a given day than they do their own parents. Granted, some of those parents work an awful lot, but that doesn't excuse them from the simple fact that education begins at home.

My kids wake up at 7-ish in the morning and are off to the bus at 7:50 unless I have to take them to rehersal at 7:30.

The bell rings at 8:30

My kids have one "special" a day. So P.E., art, music, library, art and computers get less than one hour a week each.

They get a 25 min. lunch and some get that lunch at 10:30 in the morning. Recess? ROLFMAO! That's the ten minutes they run laps for "mouthing off"

They come home at 3:30 if I pick them up, 4:15 if they ride the bus, and 4:30 if they have a tutorial. Rehersal and tutorial? NINE hours for school in a day. OVERTIME. There is no choice, and I have to provide transportation for ANY deviation.

Then they have two hours of homework where I sit and attempt to teach them to do some weird depiction of math when they can already do the actual math in question, as can I, but we can't figure out how to "show the work" to the teacher's satisfaction. And she's the teacher I like. I loved my first grader getting four syllable spelling words. I really did blow that pantload off. Anyhow, just turning in that night's homework, how can I focus on making sure they mastered material that they flunked before? How can I revisit fractions? How can I read and discuss "To Kill A Mockingbird or do things that people have Norman Rockwell fantasies about WASP SAHM's doing with their children?" My time is GONE! If I have anything else in my life going on I may not be able to involve myself with Snowflakes until it is resolved, or if my daughter refuses to do her homework, well life gets complicated...

Then we have a dinner hour of preparing and eating food.

Then my children are lucky to have an hour to play or be children or watch TV before a normal bedtime at 8:30 or 9. Some nights I let them skip bathing because they've just been too put upon, and it's not like they got the honor of playing and getting sweaty or anything.

WHEN in the fark am I supposed to have time to finish a teacher's frigging job? They have my children as long as an adult is employed in a FULL TIME JOB. Do you go to work and bring two hours worth of work home and end up working 50 hours a week without suing someone or getting paid overtime? Why should children under the age of ten be subjected to this???

I pay 6k yearly in property taxes, 8.5 percent on everything I buy, federal income tax, have to purchase $200 dollars worth of supplies a year, $300 for uniforms, have to buy stuff for projects monthly, spent 50 bucks on a diorama once for example, and some people need jobs to pay for that. What if I was getting home at 7 p.m.? How is a middle class person making 35k or so a year going to be able to afford private or even homeschooling with that kind of tax burden?

Now my kid hates me as well as her teachers. And is still flunking a subject because, apparently, sacrificing my entire life just isn't good enough.

And DARE classes made damn sure I can't even have a few frigging beers. Thanks life!




I work a lot myself, and my son is autistic, moderately severe (which I refused to acknowledge until a specialist insisted I needed to get him help, since he can barely talk.) I make a lot of time every day to teach him how to interact with people, how to behave in a 'typical' way so he can make friends, how to deal with upsetting stimuli, all the while keeping him from spinning in circles until he vomits or flapping his hands until they turn purple. I literally spend *hours* a day coaching this child on speaking, manners, basic interaction that I have to translate into ways that he understands better.

He doesn't want to do this. He doesn't want hours of coaching on things he doesn't care about. He doesn't want me to sit with him for three hours to teach him how to eat with a spoon when he prefers to use his hands and feel the texture of the food. But I do it because it is for his own good, and I work on him and worry about him and make him do things he doesn't like because I am his mother, and it is my job to make this child a productive member of society.

Sit with your daughter and make her do the work. Put the pencil back in her hand over and over until she does it. She needs to learn to drudge through it, because life has lots of unpleasant tasks we have to just do. Just like the therapies I do with my son, homework is a necessary task. I'm sure my son hates me at times, but I'm his mother, not his friend, and I will force him to do what he needs to do, even if it is hard for both of us.

That is parenthood.
 
2009-12-13 11:24:09 PM  
SubBass49: NannyStatePark: She has the material mastered so a tutor would be worthless. She is refusing to use cursive, and isn't completing in class assignments because she cannot get along with a ridiculous teacher. What can I do short of beating her? I'm sure she's on the upswing anyway.

And somehow you think a teacher can motivate your kid when you can't? Add to that the way you ridicule the teacher, and it's no wonder your precious snowflake is an embarassment that doesn't respect their education. You're the type of parent that makes teachig almost unbearable.


What have I said to ridicule her teacher besides calling her ridiculous? She has said some pretty inappropriate things to her students. When did I say my kid was an embarassment? My kid kicks ass. If I show up when needed, and help her with everything I can, what about that makes teaching unbearable? What about that is expecting a teacher to motivate her? Where the hell did your entire post come from? Where are these nine year old children you know that show their "respect for their education" daily? Planet Vulcan?

I guess I should just stop worrying, let her do what she wants, and hit the forty of Mickeys. It kicks Olde English's ass, and has intriguing puzzles on the underside of the cap.

Yeah I know, I'll move to Detroit and she'll be frigging Valedictorian!
 
2009-12-13 11:28:04 PM  
NannyStatePark: She has the material mastered so a tutor would be worthless. She is refusing to use cursive, and isn't completing in class assignments because she cannot get along with a ridiculous teacher. What can I do short of beating her? I'm sure she's on the upswing anyway.

I would relax. She sounds fine.

Cursive is worthless anyway, by the time you get to any serious writing, teachers will expect typed documents.
 
2009-12-13 11:28:20 PM  
MidnightSkulker: because life has lots of unpleasant tasks we have to just do. Just like the therapies I do with my son, homework is a necessary task.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not with this part. While life has lots of unpleasant tasks, I don't think that means we should readily accept them as immutable or even necessary. Homeowrk isn't necessary. At its best, it's simply harmless. Homework has no value academically or to development of life skills such as responsibility. It often creates conflicts in families, conflicts between students and teachers, and takes away time from families doing positive things together like cooking dinner together, going to a park, having a game night, etc.

Yes there are unpleasant things in life that need to be done, life is full of them. And it is precisely that reason that we should fight the unnecessary ones like homework.
 
2009-12-13 11:31:19 PM  
"Sit with your daughter and make her do the work. Put the pencil back in her hand over and over until she does it. She needs to learn to drudge through it, because life has lots of unpleasant tasks we have to just do. Just like the therapies I do with my son, homework is a necessary task. I'm sure my son hates me at times, but I'm his mother, not his friend, and I will force him to do what he needs to do, even if it is hard for both of us.

That is parenthood."

Thanks for the support, MidnightSkulker. I agree, and I had to get over some advice from the school and my husband's opinion to get there, and I'm at the point where I'm about to start going to school with her to get the work in class done. Homework time went from me trusting her to get it done to micromanagement, but I got my best reward ever when I heard her tell her brother one day, "She doesn't like to make us do things but it's her job."
 
2009-12-13 11:35:36 PM  
John Dewey: MidnightSkulker: because life has lots of unpleasant tasks we have to just do. Just like the therapies I do with my son, homework is a necessary task.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not with this part. While life has lots of unpleasant tasks, I don't think that means we should readily accept them as immutable or even necessary. Homeowrk isn't necessary. At its best, it's simply harmless. Homework has no value academically or to development of life skills such as responsibility. It often creates conflicts in families, conflicts between students and teachers, and takes away time from families doing positive things together like cooking dinner together, going to a park, having a game night, etc.

Yes there are unpleasant things in life that need to be done, life is full of them. And it is precisely that reason that we should fight the unnecessary ones like homework.


I agree that with regards to actual learning, homework is essentially useless - that does seem to be what research is indicating, and certainly fits with my experience. However, many schools put a great deal of grade value on it, and as much as I dislike that, it is what it is. For schools that grade based on homework, doing it is a necessity for academic success. I do a lot of redundant crap at work, but I still do it because they expect me to and it is my responsibility to do it until I can convince them to streamline things.

If the poster wishes to fight the school's homework policy and teach her daughter the value of fighting for what you think is right, I'd totally be on her side. But it's not worth complaining about unless you're willing to either do it or work towards changing it.
 
2009-12-13 11:43:38 PM  
I'd rather dye: Teacher's get paid to teach students. If they aren't doing well, its the teacher's fault. If theres a problem during surgery you blame the doctor. But if there's a problem with the kid learning, its no longer the teacher's fault?

Teacher's have got to learn to accept there responsibilities like adults and stop wailing about everything.

This country is going to hell. First a secret muslim president (yeah, I'm talking to you, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama), and now this shiatfest.


-0/10
 
2009-12-13 11:45:27 PM  
NannyStatePark: "Sit with your daughter and make her do the work. Put the pencil back in her hand over and over until she does it. She needs to learn to drudge through it, because life has lots of unpleasant tasks we have to just do. Just like the therapies I do with my son, homework is a necessary task. I'm sure my son hates me at times, but I'm his mother, not his friend, and I will force him to do what he needs to do, even if it is hard for both of us.

That is parenthood."

Thanks for the support, MidnightSkulker. I agree, and I had to get over some advice from the school and my husband's opinion to get there, and I'm at the point where I'm about to start going to school with her to get the work in class done. Homework time went from me trusting her to get it done to micromanagement, but I got my best reward ever when I heard her tell her brother one day, "She doesn't like to make us do things but it's her job."


I was like your daughter - had to be micromanaged to get homework done since I completely disagreed with doing it. My son, as much as I can tell at his age, is a lot like I was and will probably do better in a non-traditional school setting. We're looking at Montessori. It's not as expensive as many private schools. Have you considered it?

Also, have you considered fighting the school for homework exemption if your children are able to prove they know the materials on tests/quizzes? It is possible to get them exempt in many areas. I got that one year, and it was awesome. I spent most of my school day in independent study and then showed up for tests, and I worked a lot better that day.

Your daughter sounds intelligent - maybe with something a bit different than traditional school, you can find something else. It doesn't have to cost a ton, but there are options.

Sorry if I came across as harsh in my other post - I've read through the thread and like you more now, hah. :)
 
2009-12-13 11:49:42 PM  
In addition, it doesn't let her get out of learning topics and methods she may find boring/repetitive, and even with a homework exemption, she would have to spend time outside of school working on it, but not repetitive worksheets. She'd have to be self-motivated, and drudge through boring topics, but would probably focus more on applying the material in a way that shows she knows it, hopefully getting the teacher off her back.
 
2009-12-13 11:52:56 PM  
relcec: I'd rather dye: Teacher's get paid to teach students. If they aren't doing well, its the teacher's fault. If theres a problem during surgery you blame the doctor. But if there's a problem with the kid learning, its no longer the teacher's fault?

Teacher's have got to learn to accept there responsibilities like adults and stop wailing about everything.

This country is going to hell. First a secret muslim president (yeah, I'm talking to you, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama), and now this shiatfest.

-0/10


Dude, you're late. If I didn't check for bites, I would never have seen this. People bit despite the low score you gave me... so ha ha!
 
2009-12-13 11:54:46 PM  
MidnightSkulker: I was like your daughter - had to be micromanaged to get homework done since I completely disagreed with doing it. My son, as much as I can tell at his age, is a lot like I was and will probably do better in a non-traditional school setting. We're looking at Montessori. It's not as expensive as many private schools. Have you considered it?

Please do the full research on the Montessori schools in your area. I just did it for my son, and the opinions of people who had been there or knew people who had gone was... Not promising. In my area, the Montessori schools seem to be where problem children go, and there is still issues arising from teacher/student ratios. Amazing, considering the methodology, but that's what I found. Hope your area is different!

Also, NannyStatePark, I agree with a couple other people, MidnightSkulker included: You just have to teach her that homework is one of those annoying things that must be done. It sucks, but it's expected. Perhaps try doing it at different times, or seeing if more (or less) fullness helps?
 
2009-12-13 11:56:02 PM  
theigorway: This is what happens when you adopt the "Everyday Math" curriculum.

Thank you. I'm wary of asking questions about what other people think of the selected curricula and materials, so I didn't know if I was alone in thinking that program is garbage.
 
2009-12-14 12:05:44 AM  
Somebody else needs to do something about this.
 
2009-12-14 12:10:52 AM  
John Dewey: tirob: There were a bunch of black kids in the (mostly white) school I went to. With a couple of exceptions, all of them studied hard, landed and held onto good jobs, turned into responsible adults who cared for their kids, the whole roll.

So, what does that prove?

That culture trumps race, which is what most people have been saying in here. At least the ones with any clue what they are talking about.


I'll buy that. There seems to me to be a corollary to this, though, which is that those blacks who fail to function do so mainly because of problems that have developed within their own cultural milieu. Which is to say, I submit, that notwithstanding utterances made by a good many black political and religious leaders, white racism is only tangentially to blame for the problems if at all, and that the problems are for to blacks and blacks alone to face and solve.

And what I am not hearing from Reverend A, Congressman B, and Professor C is anything like this: "Many of our communities are unbearable places to live, full of crime, violence, and drug use. The kids there can't read, write, or add, and won't learn to. And the reason for this is that a part of our culture has developed in such a sinister, destructive and self-defeating way. White racism may play a part in all this, but if it does, it's a small part. We need to change the way we think and change it fast, or we'll be facing a bleak future that will be almost entirely of our own making."
 
2009-12-14 12:37:32 AM  
Oh black people, life would be so boring without you
 
2009-12-14 01:06:24 AM  
Oh, I get it. The stupid black kids have stupid black parents.

/Makes sense now
 
2009-12-14 01:13:56 AM  
I don't understand why Detroit students are failing. It's a fact that melanin makes a person superior in every way, including intelligence:

quote
Covering the annual convention of the black National Medical Association last summer, Andrew Skolnick, an editor at the Journal of the American Medical Association, listened in disbelief as Dr. Patricia Newton, a psychiatrist affiliated with Johns Hopkins University, waxed eloquent about the wonders of melanin. It has "one of the strongest electromagnetic field forces in the universe," she proclaimed, and was responsible not only for imparting traits that make blacks superior to other races but also for stimulating healing through movement.

"No joke," she explained. "Because when you hear that bass drum ... it creates a melatonin increase surge, causing it to be released in the body, induces the opiate system -- the endorphin and enkephalin system -- and gives you a sense of well-being." From the audience, Skolnick says, "there was not a single murmur of dissent."
unquote

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,164121,00.html#ixzz0ZdmrcyUo
 
2009-12-14 01:25:44 AM  
"Okay class, we're going to take this long, comprehensive math exam!"

"Are we being graded on it?"

"No."

"Why are we taking this test?"

"It's to facilitate our school district evaluation by the blah blah blah..."

"So we're not being graded?"

"no. But try your best."
 
2009-12-14 02:11:44 AM  
MidnightSkulker: That is parenthood.

My brother is autistic. He's a big part of the reason I got into teaching. The toll it took on my parents was immense, but it made all the difference in his life. I've seen a lot of kids whose parents just kind of said "f*ck it" at some point, and clearly don't interact with them all that much.

You are one of the parents who cares, as were my parents, and really, you're appreciated. My dad died in 2005, my brother's 21 now, and my mom still tries as hard as she can on a day-to-day basis to help him try to live a "normal" life in modern society.

Guess I'm just saying that I know what you're going through, and I can't thank you enough for not giving up.
 
2009-12-14 02:53:13 AM  
I'm betting the curriculum in this situation has already been dumbed down as far as possible. If the kids can't even keep up with that then they're probably too farking stupid to have a positive impact on society. Nuke from orbit, etc.
 
2009-12-14 03:04:17 AM  
Ouisch: I don't understand why Detroit students are failing. It's a fact that melanin makes a person superior in every way, including intelligence:

quote
Covering the annual convention of the black National Medical Association last summer, Andrew Skolnick, an editor at the Journal of the American Medical Association, listened in disbelief as Dr. Patricia Newton, a psychiatrist affiliated with Johns Hopkins University, waxed eloquent about the wonders of melanin. It has "one of the strongest electromagnetic field forces in the universe," she proclaimed, and was responsible not only for imparting traits that make blacks superior to other races but also for stimulating healing through movement.

"No joke," she explained. "Because when you hear that bass drum ... it creates a melatonin increase surge, causing it to be released in the body, induces the opiate system -- the endorphin and enkephalin system -- and gives you a sense of well-being." From the audience, Skolnick says, "there was not a single murmur of dissent."
unquote

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,164121,00.html#ixzz0ZdmrcyUo


Is that article real? Are they reprinting something from the Onion? No way that is real.

/wow
 
2009-12-14 03:55:14 AM  
sweetcakes: Yes, but the test scores in question are for math. Even if the parents have poor language skills that shouldn't impede their children from learning math if the kids get the proper introduciton and education at school as well as (what I expect is really lacking in this scenario) reinforcement at home.

You don't think reading skills are involved in learning math?

/ A Math text is the single densest (in terms of content per word) book a student will crack open, not even counting the vocabulary kids will need to succeed at math.
// Math requires a very specialized set of reading comprehension skills that don't overlap much with liberal arts subjects.
/// The parents are wrong, though. The problem in Detroit is far deeper than the schools and is only worsened by NCLB.
 
2009-12-14 04:26:04 AM  
bushbot111: Is that article real? Are they reprinting something from the Onion? No way that is real.

It's real. Read more here about "melanin scholars." (Oh, and those Baseline Essays were taught as fact in Detroit Public Schools for many years.)
 
2009-12-14 06:53:24 AM  
MightySapphire: Would you go the extra mile in a district where your students routinely tell you to go F*** yourself?

Those ones don't want to learn, you could start giving them a choice between push-ups and going to the principal. Most will probably choose the push-ups as an ego thing, but enough exercise and you get a natural dopamine dump. Works well with hyper kids.

True, and yet I had a 4.0.

People with a strong sense of self-worth can survive almost anything. There are plenty of others who break under the pressure, however - especially kids from single-parent families.

Really? What school policy are you reading?

There's no written policy to that effect, but it's basically what happens anyway. Zero tolerance policies mean bullying is either ignored or all parties involved can end up expelled - even the victim. You see, there isn't really a lesser punishment that can be doled out, like say having the bullies clean all the toilet stalls for a week.

We're not asking for excellence here. Even mediocrity is beyond a Detroit student.

As I said before, if you expect mediocrity you get it. There is a big difference between uneducated and incapable of learning.

I'm truly hypothesizing here that perhaps the reason they need to buy new textbooks is because they didn't have any to begin with. Or maybe their textbooks weren't "diverse" enough. Or maybe the students destroyed the old ones. I doubt the teachers would rather teach half a semester without a book than just drag out the old ones as classroom loaners until the new ones arrived. But I'm just guessing the teachers aren't complete idiots.

Probably weren't reusing books, and the school bureacracy wasted the new book money on something or other.

Yes, we all saw "The Blind Side" too. Just teach these high schoolers at the third grade level and THEN they'll want to learn! No, a student has to CHOOSE to learn. Teachers don't have the time to break it down for every single student. Plus they'll get fired for teaching outside the curriculum. "Paper is real cheap." HAHA. Tell that to teachers who have to supply their own paper to photocopy homework assignments. And having the students bring their own paper? Come on. These kids don't do the homework in the first place, why would they bother copying it off the board? Have best students help with the worst? You obviously don't understand high school sociology. The best student, as you have pointed out, is ridiculed for their interest. The worst student is likely the worst because he or she doesn't give a damn. Forcing one to help the other just makes it harder for the good student outside of class. Speaking from experience there.

If they don't do the homework at home, you have to make sure they do as much as possible in the classroom. As for teamwork - you do a basic skills test, divide the top 80% into an upper and lower group, then have the lower group choose people from the upper group to buddy with. Teams that do well get a cash prize at the end of the semester. The bottom 20% you focus heavily on yourself. You simply won't have time to tutor everyone, and with a wide range of effective grade levels, some amount of delegation will be necessary at first.

The school system doesn't allow teachers the flexibility to be creative. They are required to teach ONLY the state approved curriculum. If they started having students help each other I'm sure the parents would complain about that too.

Sticking to state-approved curriculum doesn't mean you necessarily have to stick to a single grade level while using it. And as far as parents go, they tend to not complain when your methods are working, it's the teacher's unions that stab you in the back, since anything you do right just proves that all the other teachers are slacking. I read about one teacher's union that inserted people into the local school board just so they could cut funding for a results-based teacher bonus program that had after only one year increased test scores by over 30%. You see, unions only represent unskilled workers - workers who can't compete on their own.

Nothing against your idea of hiring former military, but I'm CURRENT military, and I don't think that qualifies me to teach anyone anything. I would know how to shoot them, but that's about it.

In point of fact, you only need to be one step ahead of your students to teach, and I'm sure you could handle teaching grade-level material if you had to. It's obvious your writing skills are good.
 
2009-12-14 07:27:08 AM  
I'm guessing Detroit doesn't have particularly high Civics scores either.
Otherwise we could expect people to know that being jailed requires a criminal offense. Which requires a law to be broken. Which didn't happen here.
 
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