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(Reuters)   The reviews are in: James Cameron's Avatar is an overblown mess. Just kidding, critics are calling it "jaw-dropping" and "mind-blowing"   (reuters.com) divider line 366
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7054 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Dec 2009 at 7:36 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-12-11 12:26:16 PM
Timmy the Tumor: how long is this movie (I looked for it, can't find the info). Is this another 3 hour Cameron epic?

2.5
 
2009-12-11 12:26:34 PM
Timmy the Tumor: how long is this movie (I looked for it, can't find the info). Is this another 3 hour Cameron epic?

It's around the 2 and 1/2 hour mark, so half an hour short of an epic :)
 
2009-12-11 12:28:16 PM
Spindle: chuggernaught: Any other brainbusters?
/not under 20, so kind of cheated

This just illustrates my point. You were able to remember the quotes because you saw them, likely as a child. I'm 34 and I've seen all three acts as a kid. Do you think I'm going to go pick up a copy of The Flying Deuces for my kid to see? Do you think he would even give a damn? He's more likely to see a Tom and Jerry episode where some character makes a reference to Lou Costello's act, but he'll likely never adopt it as vernacular.

So really, I doubt very much that in another hundred years, hardly anyone will have the slightest idea what "you're not in Kansas anymore" means.

Hell, how many of you under 30 can even name 3 Frank Sinatra songs? (much less sing a few verses)


Without reading the rest of the thread:

"Love and Marriage"
"Nancy With the Laughing Face"
"Three Coins in the Fountain"

/29
 
2009-12-11 12:28:57 PM
It's a Sunshine Day!: I just think the story's going to suck. I'm one of those people that will sit in the theater and ask, "Ok, so in the far-distant future scientists will be able to create biological hybrid beings that can be 'inhabited' and manipulated by human brain activity, but they can't fix that paralyzed guy's legs?"

No shiat dog! I mean like there would be a planet where some people were riding every day on 200MPH bullet trains, but a short distance away there would be herdsmen living off yak milk? Please. Organ transplants and gene therapy but can't cure a cold? Please dog, you're killing me already.
 
2009-12-11 12:32:06 PM
www.writersgallery.com
 
2009-12-11 12:33:20 PM
I'm excited for it. Then again I'm a visual artist...if something looks good I can forgive a whole lot of faults in the way of plot. (case in point - Hellboy 2, 300, etc)

And really I'm just glad to see 3D people that don't give me the automatic "uncanny valley" feeling.
 
2009-12-11 12:33:39 PM
rob.d: I'm very much looking forward to this movie, Cameron does not disappoint. Aliens, T2...classics. Sci-Fi is his home.

This. I think this movie will go down in history as being so very much better than its trailer that several years from now we'll be saying "remember how we thought Avatar was going to suck ass? LOL"

Timmy the Tumor: how long is this movie (I looked for it, can't find the info). Is this another 3 hour Cameron epic?

Pretty much. 160 minutes. But in his defense, back in the day when he wasn't a major player and the studios forced him to chop apart his movies to make them two hours, the directors' cuts of those same movies were always way way WAY better. I'm not worried about the running time on this if it's as good as it sounds.
 
2009-12-11 12:34:39 PM
SnakeMan: cetacei: RIP Amidar

Shut the fark up. Nobody thinks you're clever.


PROHIBIDO MATAR
 
2009-12-11 12:38:59 PM
Confabulat: I will just go ahead and watch the damn thing before giving my know-it-all opinion of it.

Smart.

assegai: The movie just looks dumb. I have literally zero interest in seeing those blue characters. And I do 3d.

Dumb. If you are really in the 3D business, you have NO business not seeing this film as it will revolutionize your chosen field. Cameron spent $14 million dollars developing a digital camera that weighs 13 pounds, as compared to the 150 lb cameras used before this movie... and you 'do 3D' and have no desire to see this? Really??????
 
2009-12-11 12:39:00 PM
ORLY TITS: Marshmellow Jones:

/at least we got 'The Road', 'Inglorious Basterds', 'Moon' & 'Up' this year

Yeah, can anyone tell me when and where I can purchase a copy of "Moon"? And I don't want to rip a torrent of it.



I saw it at Wal Mart yesterday
 
2009-12-11 12:43:41 PM
wolvernova: rob.d: I'm very much looking forward to this movie, Cameron does not disappoint. Aliens, T2...classics. Sci-Fi is his home.

This. I think this movie will go down in history as being so very much better than its trailer that several years from now we'll be saying "remember how we thought Avatar was going to suck ass? LOL"

Timmy the Tumor: how long is this movie (I looked for it, can't find the info). Is this another 3 hour Cameron epic?

Pretty much. 160 minutes. But in his defense, back in the day when he wasn't a major player and the studios forced him to chop apart his movies to make them two hours, the directors' cuts of those same movies were always way way WAY better. I'm not worried about the running time on this if it's as good as it sounds.




hmmmmm

well, if the effects are kickass and the plot and story suck, 161 minutes is a LONG time to sit there--the world's best roller coaster turns into a snoozefest after a couple minutes.

I hope there's more than just "wow, this is pretty cool how they did ________" to the film, especially if some of the early screening reports of "the technology made me feel dizzy/physically ill" have any merit at all. I'm one of those few who walk out of iMax films with a migraine, am wondering if I should even bother going to this one, though I am certainly curious.
 
2009-12-11 12:45:08 PM
E Arkhe: I'm excited for it. Then again I'm a visual artist...if something looks good I can forgive a whole lot of faults in the way of plot. (case in point - Hellboy 2, 300, etc)

And really I'm just glad to see 3D people that don't give me the automatic "uncanny valley" feeling.


Point. Winner. I truly can't imagine an artist of any genre not wanting to see this, just for the chance to go ooooooooh.

/This kind of movie is definitely NOT my cup of tea (I favor Anthony Minghella, Merchant and Ivory, Ang Lee movies, or as my son calls them 'talking' movies ...) and I can't wait to see it because it is visually stunning and I like to be stunned from time to time.
 
2009-12-11 12:50:35 PM
Altman: Is unimpressed.

/anyone?
//anyone??


I see what you did there. (rollin' with iolo)
 
2009-12-11 12:50:56 PM
coco ebert: Is Peter Travers one of those "critics"?

This.
 
2009-12-11 12:51:00 PM
So, let me get this straight. The people who said that a director of 4 of the most significant films of the past 30 years, a man who's really never had a flop, and who had put his soul into making this movie turned out of make a good one?

Well well...

/criticise The Abyss all you like. No-one can say that Cameron didn't try and make an amazing film.
// and Titanic haters: it's still the biggest grossing film ever.
 
2009-12-11 12:53:57 PM
LeafyGreens: angryred: DamnYankees: Mr. Vincent Vega: The man practically invented the character of "Space Marine".

Ridley Scott is furious at you.

...And Heinlein is rolling his eyes at both a' y'all.

Eggsactly!


The Emperor of mankind frowns upon your shenannigans from the year forty thousand, heretic.

fc03.deviantart.com
 
2009-12-11 01:02:31 PM
foo monkey: coco ebert: Is Peter Travers one of those "critics"?

This.


This is all Peter Travers has had to say so far :

James Cameron has spent the decade since Titanic reinventing cinema with a 3-D epic about a paralyzed soldier (Sam Worthington) who reinvents himself as a blue 10-foot warrior on another planet. Recently, Cameron allowed audiences to see 16 minutes of Avatar in Imax theaters so they could "fondle the fabric of the film." I fondled twice as much footage. Enough to tell that in the right hands art and commerce can combine to create a film event.


From: this article.

I tend to like the Travers movie reviews myself. Fell in love with a couple of films I would never have watched if it hadn't been for his writing about them...
 
2009-12-11 01:07:13 PM
farkeruk: // and Titanic haters: it's still the biggest grossing film ever.

Is that still a sore subject with rabid fans of The Dark Knight?
 
2009-12-11 01:12:00 PM
Timmy the Tumor: : how long is this movie (I looked for it, can't find the info). Is this another 3 hour Cameron epic?

Pretty much. 160 minutes. But in his defense, back in the day when he wasn't a major player and the studios forced him to chop apart his movies to make them two hours, the directors' cuts of those same movies were always way way WAY better. I'm not worried about the running time on this if it's as good as it sounds.



hmmmmm

well, if the effects are kickass and the plot and story suck, 161 minutes is a LONG time to sit there--the world's best roller coaster turns into a snoozefest after a couple minutes.

I hope there's more than just "wow, this is pretty cool how they did ________" to the film, especially if some of the early screening reports of "the technology made me feel dizzy/physically ill" have any merit at all. I'm one of those few who walk out of iMax films with a migraine, am wondering if I should even bother going to this one, though I am certainly curious.


Avatar was probably the first 3 hour film that I've been to that I wasn't checking my watch to see when the damn thing will end. The plot was a little formulaic, but the acting and story details were good and well fleshed out.

I didn't notice anyone taking off their glasses or grabbing for the sick cup (yes we were all provided a big cup at our seats - ostensibly to pour in the small complimentary bottle of coke zero, but really to capture vomit, in my opinion).
 
2009-12-11 01:13:41 PM
mrlewish: What we all really hate is predictability.

Why throw all sorts of money at a "game changing" movie and use such a tired and predictable plot?

It is frustrating really.

And another thing.. why is the Future always so close in these movies with a mixture of godlike tech (like what is needed to quickly cross interstellar space) and stuff we can already do or near do? 2154 come on! I can't see us really looking at crossing interstellar space till like 3500+ or something. Besides if you had the tech to cross interstellar space easily why would you want some raw material on some other far off planet, even it the material is special, since your concurrent technology should be just as advanced.. meaning you ought to be able to manufacture unlimited supplies of what ever you want back home.


nerdarama.com


/Cool Theory Bro
 
2009-12-11 01:15:39 PM
Modified Cornstarch: Fergully meets Halo in Video Game Cut Scene: The Movie!

That's what it looks like to me, too.
 
2009-12-11 01:16:34 PM
sonder: The Emperor of mankind frowns upon your shenannigans from the year forty thousand, heretic.

headlesschicken.ca

Harvest time

wolvernova: Pretty much. 160 minutes. But in his defense, back in the day when he wasn't a major player and the studios forced him to chop apart his movies to make them two hours, the directors' cuts of those same movies were always way way WAY better. I'm not worried about the running time on this if it's as good as it sounds

This is the only redeeming thing about Avatar for me. We all know what Cameron was attempting when he did Abyss and my hope is its the same this time around except with the whole Ferngully In Space theme.

If anything, like others have pointed out. We did get a metric fark ton of new tech to toy around with in other movies.
 
2009-12-11 01:17:52 PM
Yeah I don't understand the hate...then again...this is FARK, everybody hates everything around here. (Except the goddamn batman...nobody Farks with him.)

I won't hate on it until I've seen it. Cameron has made too many awesome "movies for guys who like movies" for me to judge before I've watched it. Anybody who does is just an ignorant 'tard.
 
2009-12-11 01:18:46 PM
MDGeist: Always good to see a movie Fark pans as horrible turn out to be good. Not that it will change anything here but it's good to see the egg hit the face once in awhile.

This is Fark.com. If you don't hate every piece of entertainment ever made all the time, you can't be one of the cool kids. That's the rule.

And if you like anything you're a total retard and have no taste at all and should shut your whore mouth. That's the other rule.

/looking forward to Avatar
 
2009-12-11 01:24:15 PM
mrlewish: I can't see us really looking at crossing interstellar space till like 3500+ or something.

Well, we didn't have electricity 100 years ago and look how far we've come since then. Those Victorians with their top hats were practically savages.

Julio Lopez: I didn't notice anyone taking off their glasses or grabbing for the sick cup (yes we were all provided a big cup at our seats - ostensibly to pour in the small complimentary bottle of coke zero, but really to capture vomit, in my opinion).

The first 5 minutes were tough for me but my eyes settled down after that and I could enjoy it. Didn't get a migraine or a headache but I'm not prone to them anyway (apart from the dehydration and hangover ones. Oh and the tired ones. And from staring at a computer screen too long. And the others).
 
2009-12-11 01:28:18 PM
mcgreggers99: Yeah I don't understand the hate...then again...this is FARK, everybody hates everything around here. (Except the goddamn batman...nobody Farks with him.)

I won't hate on it until I've seen it. Cameron has made too many awesome "movies for guys who like movies" for me to judge before I've watched it. Anybody who does is just an ignorant 'tard.




Hmmmm, we haven't discussed that angle...are there any alien tits in this movie?
 
2009-12-11 01:29:57 PM
1lastcall: Confabulat: I will just go ahead and watch the damn thing before giving my know-it-all opinion of it.

Smart.

assegai: The movie just looks dumb. I have literally zero interest in seeing those blue characters. And I do 3d.

Dumb. If you are really in the 3D business, you have NO business not seeing this film as it will revolutionize your chosen field. Cameron spent $14 million dollars developing a digital camera that weighs 13 pounds, as compared to the 150 lb cameras used before this movie... and you 'do 3D' and have no desire to see this? Really??????



He does Claymation.
 
2009-12-11 01:32:31 PM
The English Major: I've never seen a single James Cameron film.
I have no intention of starting now.

I am, however, curious to see how the new Sherlock Holmes turns out.


really? never seen any? and wont see any in the future?
therefore any and every thing that you have to say about his movies is worthless.

thanks for playing
YAWNNNN

/you have to actually see the movie, read the book, listen to the music before you can have an informed opinion
/"didnt see his movies. never will." just makes you prejudiced and your views irrelevant and, well, meaningless
 
2009-12-11 01:32:47 PM
IdBeCrazyIf:

If anything, like others have pointed out. We did get a metric fark ton of new tech to toy around with in other movies.


I am so looking forward to Avatar II, and all the other movies that will be made this way. Watching Avatar was, in a way, like what the people who saw the first "talkies" or the first color movie must have felt.

Anyway, Avatar was great, but I don't want to sound too much like a fanboy, so I'll just shut up now.
 
2009-12-11 01:33:29 PM
sonder: LeafyGreens: angryred: DamnYankees: Mr. Vincent Vega: The man practically invented the character of "Space Marine".

Ridley Scott is furious at you.

...And Heinlein is rolling his eyes at both a' y'all.

Eggsactly!

The Emperor of mankind frowns upon your shenannigans from the year forty thousand, heretic.


Oh no you dihunt!

img.photobucket.com
 
2009-12-11 01:39:48 PM
Confabulat: The English Major: I've never seen a single James Cameron film.
I have no intention of starting now.

I am, however, curious to see how the new Sherlock Holmes turns out.

If you've never seen Aliens or Terminator 2, why are you even ON the Showbiz tab?


yah, I ripped the english major for this too
then I checked out his profile.
sigh - 900+ approved links.
he is doing something right

I have a challenge for the english major
rent/watch terminator, aliens, T2.
When you are done, review them honestly.
I would be willing to bet that his reviews, if honest would point out that while the plots are simple and simplistic, that they are perfectly executed.
Worse, I would bet that he actually enjoyed them more than he would have expected.

/note to EM: yes I have seen every merchant/ivory film and enjoyed them. so you would need to work much harder on a counter challenge.
 
2009-12-11 01:45:35 PM
So far the reviews are just what I thought.
Amazing graphics display that carries a mediocre story. I for one am disappointed in the lame "technologically advanced humans destroy a pristine native planet/world/enviroment". As if the world would be a better place if we didn't colonize the Americas and such.
 
2009-12-11 01:46:27 PM
Master of the Flying Guillotine: Wonder if James Cameron will get really butthurt if there is a negative review for this movie, like he did when Kenneth Turan knocked Titanic.

I still laugh about that. For those that don't know, Turan ripped into Titanic pretty hard in his review (new window) and in response, Cameron demanded to the L.A. Times that Turan be fired.
 
2009-12-11 01:47:48 PM
Timmy the Tumor: well, if the effects are kickass and the plot and story suck, 161 minutes is a LONG time to sit there--the world's best roller coaster turns into a snoozefest after a couple minutes.

I hope there's more than just "wow, this is pretty cool how they did ________" to the film, especially if some of the early screening reports of "the technology made me feel dizzy/physically ill" have any merit at all. I'm one of those few who walk out of iMax films with a migraine, am wondering if I should even bother going to this one, though I am certainly curious.


James Cameron is a master storyteller. His movies are never slim on plot or storyline.

Terminator
Aliens
Abyss
Terminator 2
True Lies
Titanic

As has been noted on RT's reviews, there is some cheese in the script as there almost always is in a Cameron film. But he knows story structure. Let's put it this way: it probably won't feel anything like a Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich film.
 
2009-12-11 01:57:54 PM
This movie will blow you away in 3D -- it HAS to be seen in 3d to really appreciate it. This is going to change blockbuster film-making the same way Jurassic Park did.
 
2009-12-11 02:05:46 PM
namatad: Confabulat: The English Major: I've never seen a single James Cameron film.
I have no intention of starting now.

I am, however, curious to see how the new Sherlock Holmes turns out.

If you've never seen Aliens or Terminator 2, why are you even ON the Showbiz tab?

yah, I ripped the english major for this too
then I checked out his profile.
sigh - 900+ approved links.
he is doing something right

I have a challenge for the english major
rent/watch terminator, aliens, T2.
When you are done, review them honestly.
I would be willing to bet that his reviews, if honest would point out that while the plots are simple and simplistic, that they are perfectly executed.
Worse, I would bet that he actually enjoyed them more than he would have expected.

/note to EM: yes I have seen every merchant/ivory film and enjoyed them. so you would need to work much harder on a counter challenge.


Okay, I like action/horror films. I'm not some arthouse goon. Looking at my collection, I see the two Tim Burton Batmans, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Watchmen, layer Cake, The Professional, Killer Klowns from Outer Space, Halloween (the original), X-Men, X-Men 2, and Road House, for example.
I'm not a big merchant ivory fan. I think the "classiest" film I own is probably the Criterion editions of The Killers and The Ice Storm, and the anniversary edition of To Kill a Mockingbird.

I mean, I have the goddamned Police Academy boxed set.

And I take that back.
I have seen True Lies. That was a fun movie. It's been about ten years, but I forgot he did that.

I won't watch Aliens, but I will watch Terminator 2. Do I need to see the first one before watching it?

/and this was NOT my headline
//I had the one yesterday about it bombing
 
2009-12-11 02:09:03 PM
I'm not sure what it is, but there's something terribly boring to me with the save-humanoidA-from-humanoidB plotline. While the story telling may be great, I'm not sure the topic would be enough to hold my interest for 3 hours.
 
2009-12-11 02:10:47 PM
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Even if this film manages to bring in more than it cost to make, what's the point? The ratio of investment to payout will be horrible. For the cost of one Avatar film they could have made a dozen lower budget films that gross five times what they cost to make.

I for one am glad that not every movie out there sole purpose is to make as much money as possible.
 
2009-12-11 02:11:22 PM
Slashfilm just posted their Avatar review:

Epic filmmaking, Epically bad dialogue (new window)
 
2009-12-11 02:11:46 PM
The English Major: I won't watch Aliens

WTF? Who wouldn't watch Aliens? Even AMC has it at 4 stars. I just rewatched it and loooooved it. Not as much as the original, but pretty damn good. Hell, Bill Paxton in Aliens is one of my favorite performances of all-time.
 
2009-12-11 02:13:08 PM
The English Major:
I mean, I have the goddamned Police Academy boxed set.

And I take that back.
I have seen True Lies. That was a fun movie. It's been about ten years, but I forgot he did that.

I won't watch Aliens, but I will watch Terminator 2. Do I need to see the first one before watching it?

/and this was NOT my headline
//I had the one yesterday about it bombing


You can probably catch the general idea of Terminator 2 without seeing the first one, but I'd see the first one first if you can. By today's standards the effects are hokey but:

1) Arnold is actually pretty good in it.
2) It had a rather cool time travel plot.
3) It's really a pretty good movie.
 
2009-12-11 02:13:09 PM
DamnYankees: Slashfilm just posted their Avatar review:

Epic filmmaking, Epically bad dialogue (new window)


I didn't think he could top the brilliant dialogue of Titanic.
 
2009-12-11 02:16:49 PM
The English Major: I won't watch Aliens, but I will watch Terminator 2. Do I need to see the first one before watching it?

No but it would probably help if you read the plot on wikipedia first. One of the more brilliant aspects of Terminator 2 is that the first movie Arnold is the bad guy (robot) and there is a human sent to protect Sarah Connor. I don't want to spoil anything but there is a clever twist revealed in T2.

Why don't you want to see Aliens? It's such a good movie. Roger Ebert wrote a very apt review about it (new window)

Basically it's the pinnacle of intense thrillers.
 
2009-12-11 02:18:30 PM
Mr.Poops: This movie will blow you away in 3D -- it HAS to be seen in 3d to really appreciate it. This is going to change blockbuster film-making the same way Jurassic Park did.

I plan to. This isn't one I think you should 'wait for the dvd'. I mean the whole thing is about the improvements in 3d tech, that's what made the budget so large, that's why it took so long.

It didn't take 10 years to write the damn script, so why watch the movie without the part that all the extra effort went into?
 
2009-12-11 02:20:28 PM
The English Major: I won't watch Aliens, but I will watch Terminator 2. Do I need to see the first one before watching it?

/and this was NOT my headline
//I had the one yesterday about it bombing


My english professor made our class watch terminator 1. That was how good he thought it was. Granted it was intro undergrad class hehe.
 
2009-12-11 02:22:34 PM
DamnYankees: Slashfilm just posted their Avatar review:

Epic filmmaking, Epically bad dialogue (new window)


He's mostly complimentary in there except for the dialogue dig.

Let me just start by saying that Avatar is a hugely exciting sci-fi/adventure/thriller/romance/drama/war film that is well-worth your time..... It is a remarkable creation and a stunning testament to Cameron's ability to fully realize his creative impulses.

Anyway, I've seen probably 200 woefully horrible movies. I saw all the early Batman movies in the theater. I paid to see DC Cab fer chrissakes. I saw Formula 51 on opening night. I spent money on The Day After Tomorrow... so this will quite easily make the cut. To be honest I'm excited.
 
2009-12-11 02:24:01 PM
Mr.Poops: This movie will blow you away in 3D -- it HAS to be seen in 3d to really appreciate it. This is going to change blockbuster film-making the same way Jurassic Park did.

No doubt.

I usually can't stand to spend time watching SciFi-type stuff, wether it be television or movies or anything else. It's just not my thing, I laugh at most of it as being so far out of the realm of reality. Just not my cup of tea.

I also can't stand going to the movie theater. Waste of time, I'm patient enough to wait for the good ones to come out on DVD, and my recliner is far more comfortable anyways.

My wife dragged me to see that re-make of that famous Christmas story last weekend. It was in 3-d, and, naturally, Avatar was one of the previews. I want to see this movie. Badly. I couldn't give two shiats about the story, the effects in 3-d were SO insane that I'm geeked about getting back into the theater and putting on some funny glasses just to see aliens jump across the theater room. About fifteen seconds into the preview I thought to myself "This is what the future is going to look (and feel) like, and it's going to be AWWWWESOME."
 
2009-12-11 02:24:30 PM
JohnBigBootay: Anyway, I've seen probably 200 woefully horrible movies. I saw all the early Batman movies in the theater. I paid to see DC Cab fer chrissakes. I saw Formula 51 on opening night. I spent money on The Day After Tomorrow... so this will quite easily make the cut. To be honest I'm excited.

I agree. But its still disappointing. The best movies have good characters + spectacle + acting. It sounds like Avatar only has #2. And that's what sounds like what will keep it form joining the pantheon of epics form this decade, like LOTR and The Dark Knight.
 
2009-12-11 02:25:45 PM
GungFu: 1lastcall: Confabulat: I will just go ahead and watch the damn thing before giving my know-it-all opinion of it.

Smart.

assegai: The movie just looks dumb. I have literally zero interest in seeing those blue characters. And I do 3d.

Dumb. If you are really in the 3D business, you have NO business not seeing this film as it will revolutionize your chosen field. Cameron spent $14 million dollars developing a digital camera that weighs 13 pounds, as compared to the 150 lb cameras used before this movie... and you 'do 3D' and have no desire to see this? Really??????


He does Claymation.


All the more reason to see it, IMHO.
 
2009-12-11 02:26:46 PM
moralpanic: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Even if this film manages to bring in more than it cost to make, what's the point? The ratio of investment to payout will be horrible. For the cost of one Avatar film they could have made a dozen lower budget films that gross five times what they cost to make.

I for one am glad that not every movie out there sole purpose is to make as much money as possible.


This. I think with video sales and all the other crap that helps a movie profit, they'll be fine. What's important is that Cameron is delivering to the world something new and special. Costs aren't important. Look at Lawrence of Arabia for example. That didn't make any money at the time, but we're all glad that it was made. Same with Citizen Kane.

Dog Welder: You can probably catch the general idea of Terminator 2 without seeing the first one, but I'd see the first one first if you can. By today's standards the effects are hokey

Disagree completely. I was up late last night watching it on bluray and I'm stunned at how well it's held up.
 
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