g4lt: bushbot111: bearsfolks: I'm scared alright...of the Government and it's giveaways and taxes. We are going to run this country into bankruptcy.

Since the war was a waste, it somehow justifies wasting billions more. Two wrongs make an American two-party system.

No, simply pointing out that one cannot go where one already is. The USA cannot GO bankrupt, as it's already THERE and has been for many years. The fact that the bankruptcy changed from "I can't pay my debts off ever" to "I can't even pay enough today to get my creditors to STFU for a few days" doesn't change the fact that its been about 7 years since the USA got into more debt that it can possibly pay off. Given that we're already spending money we don't have simply to go on, does it really matter if we spend more?

Is that a serious question?

If you have studied the Earth's past in any aspect, you know we are doomed! Humans = 1.2 million years so far...

tomWright: Red line is what climate researchers CLAIM is the temperature record for Darwin Airport in Australia. After they adjust it.

Blue line is what the raw data show.

A little tweak here and there to correct the rare anomaly, but that goes way beyond a little tweak.

This is part of the dataset used by GRU.

My headline was not green worthy, but the article is read-worthy:
The Smoking Gun At Darwin Zero (new window)

amazing, isn't it. The green movement is about $$$$$$$, but the $$ is green.

I call it Mann Made Global Warming because Mann fudged the data.

nicksteel: Antimatter: nicksteel: Antimatter: nicksteel: Antimatter: nicksteel: uknowzit: OK

Listen. Our species is generating CO2 at higher levels than ever.
Is this contributing to global warming?

I don't care but we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever.

Start doing some math people.

Its close to the end.

Somethings got to give.

It's "close" to the end of using oil, it is not close to the end of the world. When the time comes, necessity is the mother of invention.

It will be cheeper to develop the tech now, when oil is plentiful, then to try to rush it out the door when things look bad.

I'm against the treaty, but in favor of making alternative energy a new Manhattan Project of sorts.

The nation should dedicate itself to say, getting 50% of its energy from renewable sources by, say, 2075 or so. Plenty of time.

The majority of that should come from home grown technology and companies.

good luck - the environmentalists - the people who have pushed this AGW crap down your throat are also the people who protest the building of nuclear power plants, they protest that wind power kills too many birds. Environmentalists are crying about dams that keep the fish from being able to move freely up and down the rivers. Most of those dams are used to produce electricity. Solar power is only viable in a small portion of the USA.

What's left??

Different groups are against different things. We just need to work on selling the advantages of various methods.

NIMBY people are the worst. Especially when it comes to wind power. Nuclear is a touchy issue. We need to build newer, modern designs, but those are extremely expensive and we still have fuel sourcing and storage programs.

Dams, likewise, are quite costly. Migratory concerns exist, yes, and I think we can deal with that, but its not practical to refit all old dams.

Solar will work as a supplemental source all over the nation, and a core source in the desert regions. Backed by other forms, like clean coal, natural gas, nuclear or wind, it will be quite useful.

Geothermal also needs some looks, especially in Alaska and Hawaii, as well as other volcanically active states.

Combine new modern plants, advances in alternative energy, and improvements to the power grid, and I think we could do a lot of good by 2075.

That's where I think we should be concentrating. Combine that effort with one to modernize transportation infrastructure, and I think we'll do a lot to help the GDP, as well as regain economic power in the world. Security would also be vastly improved.

No matter what you try, there are going to be serious protests. Those will be unbearable and slow if not kill any actions. Solar will not work in lots of places in the country. There is not enough sunny days to make it worth the money.

We deal with the protests as they come. We deal with the NIMBY folks the best we can. We can do this, it's all about education and fighting the propaganda.

We have, if you haven't noticed a frakking large desert in the southwest. There is no reason we aren't lining it with even more solar projects. Push Nano-solar tech, as well as traditional photovoltaic and solar thermal. We should be powering a huge swath of country with solar power alone. Supplemented by other sources, of course. Improvements to the grid will be needed, and should be made.

We can do it, and it should be done. Damn the torpedos I say.

Would create a ton of American jobs, and a huge economic boost. Reductions in pollution, increased foreign security, etc. It's a massive win. Won't be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is.

those deserts in the southwest are not going to help the people in Iowa are they? You need to do some research and try very hard to be reality based.

You need to learn to read entire paragraphs. I know it's not a one-for-all solution.

But for those states where it can be a solution, it should be, or at least part of the solution. Every kilowatt we generate with renewable is one less we have to generate from fossils, or from foreign sources. That's a good thing.

What I suggest is a multi-pronged, comprehensive solution utilizing every technology we have access to. Combined with a rebuilt grid, we can do a lot of good.

Is it idealistic? Sure. But to be a man is to be idealistic. Thos without ideas are just petty slaves and pawns. The Right and far left is filled with those sorts. If something is too hard, too costly, they won't touch it. They look to the past, and are therefore worthless to the solution. Give me men and women who look to the future, and we will have a solid solution to hand to our children and theirs.

By the end of this century, we should be able to tell the middle east to frak themselves, as they would have nothing to offer us.

What's wrong with you evil deniers! The science is settled! Sea levels are going to rise 20 feet in the next 20 years. Oh wait, that was 10 years ago.... Well, we still have 10 more years for my prediction to come true!

What's that? What's the science say about sea level rise? Well, it could be one inch or it could be 20 feet! They just don't know! The science is settled, but they JUST DON'T KNOW!

And those climategate emails are all 10 years old. The polar bears are almost extinct.... Oh wait, actually overall the population is increasing.... But they could all die any day now! I'm telling ya, they're going extinct any day now! And that medieval warm period thing? Yea, that didn't happen as proven by 10 or so trees while ignoring 2,000 or so trees and other sources of proxy data. It's the warmest it's ever been ever!

It's the truth. An Inconvenient Truth. Very inconvenient for me especially since I'm inconvenienced by not knowing how to spend all of this $100M I've made selling carbon credits!

(I DON'T UNDERSTAND. WHY WOULD ANYONE BE THE LEAST BIT SUSPICIOUS?)

nicksteel: rewind2846: Spend trillions of dollars to combat climate change, or face "extinction of the human race". OOGABOOGA ARE YOU SCARED YET?

And just how many trillions have we spent f*cking it up, assmitter?
Seems only right we spend some money to fix our own sh*t. It ain't gonna fix itself if we keep f*cking it up.

I think that we should have some proof that we have farked it up before we spend money to fix it.

Okay... take a bathtub. Turn on the water. At full blast the drain should take the water as fast as it comes from the faucet. The system is in balance.
Now take a bucket of water and pour it in the tub while the faucet's running. Do this enough times and fast enough, and the tub will overflow. Speed this up by tossing various items into the drain.

This is what we are doing to the planet. Not only are we pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere faster than the biosphere can handle it (the system was meant to work over millions, not hundreds of years), but we're chopping down and destroying the very machinery that handles the sh*t we are overloading the system with.

No other animal in the history of the planet has done this. It's us. Live with it.

whatshisname: nicksteel:
Dinnerware is real. Saving a planet that does not need saving is a waste of money.

Have you traveled much? Seen any third-world or even first world metropolises when the smog is so thick that your snot turns black after half an hour outside?

Even if Global Warming wasn't happening, there's a lot more that needs fixing.

There is absolutely nothing in the Copenhagen proposals to deal with that sort of pollution. Real pollution does need fixing in those countries but this is not the way to do it. There is nothing in the Copenhagen proposals to limit or even monitor pollution in the third world.

I have a theory about the way people talk about the climate change issue. I call it the "information filter." Here's how it goes,

Let's start with a basket full of the information that we do have about climate change (rising temps and CO₂ levels, etc.) Then...

1.) One side of the debate oversimplifies things (such as stating that climate change will cause the human race to go extinct, which is possible but very unlikely.) Some information is removed from our original basket by oversimplification.

2.) The other side of the debate reacts to this oversimplification by presenting their own oversimplification. More information is removed (or distorted) from the basket.

3.) This cycle continues until there is no actual information left in the basket, just raw emotions.

For me, there is little doubt that rising CO₂ levels are related to the recent observed temperature increase. What we don't totally understand is how much of the warming is caused by the carbon dioxide. That is still under debate.

Antimatter: nicksteel: Antimatter: nicksteel: Antimatter: nicksteel: Antimatter: nicksteel: uknowzit: OK

Listen. Our species is generating CO2 at higher levels than ever.
Is this contributing to global warming?

I don't care but we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever.

Start doing some math people.

Its close to the end.

Somethings got to give.

It's "close" to the end of using oil, it is not close to the end of the world. When the time comes, necessity is the mother of invention.

It will be cheeper to develop the tech now, when oil is plentiful, then to try to rush it out the door when things look bad.

I'm against the treaty, but in favor of making alternative energy a new Manhattan Project of sorts.

The nation should dedicate itself to say, getting 50% of its energy from renewable sources by, say, 2075 or so. Plenty of time.

The majority of that should come from home grown technology and companies.

good luck - the environmentalists - the people who have pushed this AGW crap down your throat are also the people who protest the building of nuclear power plants, they protest that wind power kills too many birds. Environmentalists are crying about dams that keep the fish from being able to move freely up and down the rivers. Most of those dams are used to produce electricity. Solar power is only viable in a small portion of the USA.

What's left??

Different groups are against different things. We just need to work on selling the advantages of various methods.

NIMBY people are the worst. Especially when it comes to wind power. Nuclear is a touchy issue. We need to build newer, modern designs, but those are extremely expensive and we still have fuel sourcing and storage programs.

Dams, likewise, are quite costly. Migratory concerns exist, yes, and I think we can deal with that, but its not practical to refit all old dams.

Solar will work as a supplemental source all over the nation, and a core source in the desert regions. Backed by other forms, like clean coal, natural gas, nuclear or wind, it will be quite useful.

Geothermal also needs some looks, especially in Alaska and Hawaii, as well as other volcanically active states.

Combine new modern plants, advances in alternative energy, and improvements to the power grid, and I think we could do a lot of good by 2075.

That's where I think we should be concentrating. Combine that effort with one to modernize transportation infrastructure, and I think we'll do a lot to help the GDP, as well as regain economic power in the world. Security would also be vastly improved.

No matter what you try, there are going to be serious protests. Those will be unbearable and slow if not kill any actions. Solar will not work in lots of places in the country. There is not enough sunny days to make it worth the money.

We deal with the protests as they come. We deal with the NIMBY folks the best we can. We can do this, it's all about education and fighting the propaganda.

We have, if you haven't noticed a frakking large desert in the southwest. There is no reason we aren't lining it with even more solar projects. Push Nano-solar tech, as well as traditional photovoltaic and solar thermal. We should be powering a huge swath of country with solar power alone. Supplemented by other sources, of course. Improvements to the grid will be needed, and should be made.

We can do it, and it should be done. Damn the torpedos I say.

Would create a ton of American jobs, and a huge economic boost. Reductions in pollution, increased foreign security, etc. It's a massive win. Won't be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is.

those deserts in the southwest are not going to help the people in Iowa are they? You need to do some research and try very hard to be reality based.

You need to learn to read entire paragraphs. I know it's not a one-for-all solution.

But for those states where it can be a solution, it should be, or at least part of the solution. Every kilowatt we generate with renewable is one less we have to generate from fossils, or from foreign sources. That's a good thing.

What I suggest is a multi ...

we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

tomWright: Red line is what climate researchers CLAIM is the temperature record for Darwin Airport in Australia. After they adjust it.

Blue line is what the raw data show.

A little tweak here and there to correct the rare anomaly, but that goes way beyond a little tweak.

This is part of the dataset used by GRU.

My headline was not green worthy, but the article is read-worthy:
The Smoking Gun At Darwin Zero (new window)

Wow, I read yer profile and yer angry, bro; bless yer fish.

Please be less angry in yer day-to-day; the people that know you will love you better if you do...

Wow, I just over-stepped my bounds. Apologies.

I tend to shoot from the hip accurately.

But not always.

;)

jimi32: we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

were you talking to him or me? Because I don't remember saying that.

tomWright:
This is part of the dataset used by GRU.

I only believe the data sets used by BLEEN.

Humans extinct? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

rewind2846: nicksteel: rewind2846: Spend trillions of dollars to combat climate change, or face "extinction of the human race". OOGABOOGA ARE YOU SCARED YET?

And just how many trillions have we spent f*cking it up, assmitter?
Seems only right we spend some money to fix our own sh*t. It ain't gonna fix itself if we keep f*cking it up.

I think that we should have some proof that we have farked it up before we spend money to fix it.

Okay... take a bathtub. Turn on the water. At full blast the drain should take the water as fast as it comes from the faucet. The system is in balance.
Now take a bucket of water and pour it in the tub while the faucet's running. Do this enough times and fast enough, and the tub will overflow. Speed this up by tossing various items into the drain.

This is what we are doing to the planet. Not only are we pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere faster than the biosphere can handle it (the system was meant to work over millions, not hundreds of years), but we're chopping down and destroying the very machinery that handles the sh*t we are overloading the system with.

No other animal in the history of the planet has done this. It's us. Live with it.

Studies have shown that the rain forests are recovering rapidly once they are left alone. Large sections have already recovered. Increased CO2 means that the plants grow faster and bigger - thus sucking up more CO2. CO2 is causing Phytoplankton to increase in the oceans. That sucks up more CO2 and it is good for a variety of reasons. It will even help increase the fish populations.

ta2mama: kvinesknows: oh please at maximum we are talking 4-5 Billion people dieing. which would leave us somewhere around the same population we had 100 years ago with a DRASTICALLY improved ability to produce and move food. Removing that many people would have a huge impact on global warming and would actually result in the saving of the species. Which since we would have an over abundant food supply our population would recover in less then 100 years and it would be more closely regulated and resourced. Win win win win.

/Newsletter; I can haz subskripshun?

nah, this level of awesome comes free with your Fark account

Antimatter: jimi32: we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

were you talking to him or me? Because I don't remember saying that.

I don't know who I was attacking in that epic quote...but it's not dinosaurs

kvinesknows: loo of

packing peanuts used to be made from oil from the ground.. now they are made from corn, are in fact edible, compostable and whatever other fun environment words you want to throw in there.

Yes, but people will only use them if forced because they dissolve instantly in water--not very shock-absorbing if your shipment gets wet from the rain...

They also make "plastic" cutlery the same way. Many other things too.. its only a matter of time before most of the products made from oil are made cheaply from a plant based product.

And anything made from plants takes away from our ability to feed an ever-growing population. Yes, oil is going, and much can be replaced by plant-based raw materials, but the ability to grow more and more is reaching its limit.

Extinction of the human race is a foregone conclusion. It's a matter of when, not if.

The asteroid that did the dinosaurs in and allowed human life to arise in the first place was not an isolated event. Another one is coming. Maybe tomorrow, maybe millions of years from now; we don't know. But it's on its way as we speak.

The only question is whether we'll still be around for it to end us when it gets here.

I guess it was uknowzit

Lsyn: I have a theory about the way people talk about the climate change issue. I call it the "information filter." Here's how it goes,

Let's start with a basket full of the information that we do have about climate change (rising temps and CO2 levels, etc.) Then...

1.) One side of the debate oversimplifies things (such as stating that climate change will cause the human race to go extinct, which is possible but very unlikely.) Some information is removed from our original basket by oversimplification.

2.) The other side of the debate reacts to this oversimplification by presenting their own oversimplification. More information is removed (or distorted) from the basket.

3.) This cycle continues until there is no actual information left in the basket, just raw emotions.

For me, there is little doubt that rising CO2 levels are related to the recent observed temperature increase. What we don't totally understand is how much of the warming is caused by the carbon dioxide. That is still under debate.

Have you read about the Vostok Ice Core samples and what they reveal.

whatshisname: cryinoutloud: I'd like to think that humans are smart enough to be able to change their ways, but I'm not so sure anymore.

To paraphrase George Monbiot:

"Given the choice between doing something to save our planet or a nice new set of dinnerware, most people would choose the dinnerware"


"Given the choice between doing something to save our planet giving more money to the world bank or a nice new set of dinnerware, most people would choose the dinnerware"

fixed

nicksteel: There is nothing in the Copenhagen proposals to limit or even monitor pollution in the third world.

Well, don't focus entirely on the Third World. I did mention the First World as well. After all, we produce more pollution per capita than the Third World, by a long shot.

jimi32: Antimatter: jimi32: we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

were you talking to him or me? Because I don't remember saying that.

I don't know who I was attacking in that epic quote...but it's not dinosaurs

Well yeah. it's like compressed peat and plant material, although, the rotting of ancient animals did contribute to their growth, I think.

uknowzit: OK

Listen. Our species is generating CO2 at higher levels than ever.
Is this contributing to global warming?

I don't care but we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever.

Start doing some math people.

Its close to the end.

Somethings got to give.

As oil gets more expensive, investing in alternate energy becomes more profitable. No need for the government to do anything or spend anything.

whatshisname: nicksteel: There is nothing in the Copenhagen proposals to limit or even monitor pollution in the third world.

Well, don't focus entirely on the Third World. I did mention the First World as well. After all, we produce more pollution per capita than the Third World, by a long shot.

Do we? China is considered a developing nation. They pollute more than we do. We produce more CO2 than most but I do not consider CO2 pollution.

Dumb as we wanna be (new window)

We have turned out to be that "Grasshopper Generation"-we let loose the locust in us all and in the process we ate through a staggering amount of our national wealth and our natural world in a very short period of time, leaving the next generation a massive economic and ecological deficit.

farkityfarker: Extinction of the human race is a foregone conclusion. It's a matter of when, not if.

The asteroid that did the dinosaurs in and allowed human life to arise in the first place was not an isolated event. Another one is coming. Maybe tomorrow, maybe millions of years from now; we don't know. But it's on its way as we speak.

The only question is whether we'll still be around for it to end us when it gets here.


"The only question is whether we'll Bruce Willis will still be around for it when it gets here"

fixed

farkityfarker: Extinction of the human race is a foregone conclusion. It's a matter of when, not if.

The asteroid that did the dinosaurs in and allowed human life to arise in the first place was not an isolated event. Another one is coming. Maybe tomorrow, maybe millions of years from now; we don't know. But it's on its way as we speak.

The only question is whether we'll still be around for it to end us when it gets here.

We will be the authors of our demise...throughout time we have been the only species that has the ability and the inclination to eradicate ourselves. It will not be an asteroid, or any extraterrestrial body, it will be the cycling of the Earth, and our ignorance.

disestablishmenator:
(I DON'T UNDERSTAND. WHY WOULD ANYONE BE THE LEAST BIT SUSPICIOUS?)
YOU KNOW WHAT? THEY DON'T CARE ANYMORE!
And why would they, who is going to stop them?

jimi32: farkityfarker: Extinction of the human race is a foregone conclusion. It's a matter of when, not if.

The asteroid that did the dinosaurs in and allowed human life to arise in the first place was not an isolated event. Another one is coming. Maybe tomorrow, maybe millions of years from now; we don't know. But it's on its way as we speak.

The only question is whether we'll still be around for it to end us when it gets here.

We will be the authors of our demise...throughout time we have been the only species that has the ability and the inclination to eradicate ourselves. It will not be an asteroid, or any extraterrestrial body, it will be the cycling of the Earth, and our ignorance.

how profound. And what a total load of bullshiat!

Antimatter: jimi32: Antimatter: jimi32: we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

were you talking to him or me? Because I don't remember saying that.

I don't know who I was attacking in that epic quote...but it's not dinosaurs

Well yeah. it's like compressed peat and plant material, although, the rotting of ancient animals did contribute to their growth, I think.

Look around...there's a hell of a lot more plants than animals now..as then

In loo of...: Yes, but people will only use them if forced because they dissolve instantly in water--not very shock-absorbing if your shipment gets wet from the rain...


they have actually solved that problem by coating them with a non-nutritive cereal varnish. It's semi-permiable. It's not osmotic. It prevents the water from penetrating.

bronyaur1: bearsfolks: I'm scared alright...of the Government and it's giveaways and taxes. We are going to run this country into bankruptcy.

You and your ideas already nearly ran this country into bankruptcy. Perhaps you ought to consider allowing the educated and intelligent the opportunity to fix your mess.

You mean like Joe "JOBS is a three-letter-word" Biden???
Or maybe, "57-States" Obama ???

Remember.. Dumbocrats are the 'Stoopid' party!

nicksteel: jimi32: farkityfarker: Extinction of the human race is a foregone conclusion. It's a matter of when, not if.

The asteroid that did the dinosaurs in and allowed human life to arise in the first place was not an isolated event. Another one is coming. Maybe tomorrow, maybe millions of years from now; we don't know. But it's on its way as we speak.

The only question is whether we'll still be around for it to end us when it gets here.

We will be the authors of our demise...throughout time we have been the only species that has the ability and the inclination to eradicate ourselves. It will not be an asteroid, or any extraterrestrial body, it will be the cycling of the Earth, and our ignorance.

how profound. And what a total load of bullshiat!

Wow, so humans are incapable to destroying their environment, and therefore themselves?

And you wonder why so many people don't take anything you say seriously. You're off in wonderland, while the rest of us are trying to offer solutions for the real world's problems.

jimi32: Antimatter: jimi32: Antimatter: jimi32: we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

were you talking to him or me? Because I don't remember saying that.

I don't know who I was attacking in that epic quote...but it's not dinosaurs

Well yeah. it's like compressed peat and plant material, although, the rotting of ancient animals did contribute to their growth, I think.

Look around...there's a hell of a lot more plants than animals now..as then

well yeah, i said CONTRIBUTE. Just as rotting things do today. Not the sole source of, however.

Antimatter: nicksteel: jimi32: farkityfarker: Extinction of the human race is a foregone conclusion. It's a matter of when, not if.

The asteroid that did the dinosaurs in and allowed human life to arise in the first place was not an isolated event. Another one is coming. Maybe tomorrow, maybe millions of years from now; we don't know. But it's on its way as we speak.

The only question is whether we'll still be around for it to end us when it gets here.

We will be the authors of our demise...throughout time we have been the only species that has the ability and the inclination to eradicate ourselves. It will not be an asteroid, or any extraterrestrial body, it will be the cycling of the Earth, and our ignorance.

how profound. And what a total load of bullshiat!

Wow, so humans are incapable to destroying their environment, and therefore themselves?

And you wonder why so many people don't take anything you say seriously. You're off in wonderland, while the rest of us are trying to offer solutions for the real world's problems.

I never said that humans are incapable of destroying their environment. You made that up all by yourself. Considering you inability to understand what you read, I don't think that you have the intelligence to offer up any viable solutions.

It's a large-scale problem, therefore it doesn't exist.

stirfrybry: Jaakobi: even if you don't believe in AGW, it would still be better to get off of fossil fuels. Cars stink, and the sooner we get rid of gasoline run cars, the better. I happen to think it would be a good thing to keep cities and the countryside clean, and who really doesn't like clean air?

Then go buy an electric car. after you and all your fellow warmers buy them, the price will come down and the rest of us will follow along. Use the market, young eco-warrior

haha. I'm not exactly an eco-warrior, I happen to think that we will probably continue to emit CO2 for the rest of the century and there's probably nothing we can really do to stop it all at once. Electric cars are ok by me, but I wouldn't get one until better tech comes out. Don't worry, I'm ok with cars for now, but I walk and ride my bike whenever I can. I try to conserve, and I won't tell you if you can or cannot drive where you want.

nicksteel: Do we? China is considered a developing nation. They pollute more than we do. We produce more CO2 than most but I do not consider CO2 pollution.

Not per capita. They might overall, but they have over 4 times the population.

Anyone else notice how fast the phrase 'global warming' was replaced with 'climate change'?

Guess the disaster-of-the-week committee couldn't reach a consensus on how to scare us into greater poverty, and this update covers all their bases.

\Next year it'll be something new.
\\Anthropomorphic climate change (read: global warming) denier.
\\\Working on a newsletter.

nicksteel: kriegsgeist: nicksteel: kriegsgeist: nicksteel: kriegsgeist: nicksteel: kriegsgeist: nicksteel: kriegsgeist: natetimm: kriegsgeist: natetimm

look at you, all batshiat crazy. Why is it so important to you that I show my source. The findings are not a secret. Link

how old are you?? Who deserves to die?

It was a joke - Chappelle show? Parody of Samuel L Jackson?

Anyway, no the truth did not overwhelm me. My computer had to restart.

Your source, even though it is questionable, I will take the references it cites at face value since I don't have journal access right now.

I expect you to do the same with this source: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and- c o2/

The gist of it is that CO2 amplifies natural orbital forcing, which was the cause in the past. That does not mean it's the cause now.

Githerax: It's a large-scale problem, therefore it doesn't exist.

OK, I laughed. It's funny because it's true.

Oh Al!


//hot like kelly. kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly..why? because you're kelly kelly kelly kelly kelly

It's a shame you morons of both sides of the fence rely on the internets to fuel your flagrant displays of intellectual inferiority complexes.

'Climate change' isn't a singular entity, even though you discuss it like it is.

It most certainly is clear that artificial and exponentially heightened levels of CO2 are dangerous - just not necessarily in the 'oh well everything gets hot and we all die like in that movie yes/no' way.

Man-made CO2 issues are a lot more likely to cause damage in more unexpected areas than the whole planet/your backyard and may not have obvious effects with directly catastrophic results on Fox News.

For example the oceans. Ocean scientists are a lot quieter and more rational than the 'climate crew', why don't you spend some time finding out how they feel about high CO2 levels?

Not that the oceans are THAT important of course.

The inability of people to realise that ideology is even more insane than a belief in a magical 'sky father' is the number one downfall of humanity.

Congratulations to all of you for being the same retarded blips as your ancestors were.

elchip: Mean Daddy: People were worrying about global cooling in 1975.

The media was. Not so much the scientists.



You're not bringing up that long-debunked chart are you? It shows no global cooling papers for 1973, yet this is one right here found in a few seconds of a Google search:

Polar albedo changes and its climatic consequences
FLOHN, H
COSPAR, Plenary Meeting, 16th, Konstanz, West Germany; International Organization; 23 May-5 June 1973. 6 pp. 1973

Study of the relation between global or hemispheric temperature variations and variations of the sea ice in the Arctic and Antarctic. Reviewing the available data regarding the areal variations of sea ice in the polar regions, it is concluded that these variations are of the greatest importance in any realistic attempt to understand and to forecast climatic variations. A modified version of Wilson's (1964, 1969) Antarctic surge hypothesis as a trigger of rapid global cooling of the order of 4 to 6 K is proposed.

Humanity! Oh the humanity!

jimi32: calm down!
As long as there are these out there:

Fake or not....
/Fake as the "global problem"
//Fake as the "oil crisis"
///Good thing they are too big to fail
////We be eating tonight, and have a heater, and schools, and health care, and pets, and a car, and still weather the tides...

WIN!

/boobies

nicksteel:
Studies have shown that the rain forests are recovering rapidly once they are left alone. Large sections have already recovered. Increased CO2 means that the plants grow faster and bigger - thus sucking up more CO2. CO2 is causing Phytoplankton to increase in the oceans. That sucks up more CO2 and it is good for a variety of reasons. It will even help increase the fish populations.

Any plant will grow if left alone. The problem is that vast areas are still being strip mined and cut away, especially in third world countries for first world consumers. We're not leaving them alone... we are still losing 6000 acres every hour of every day. China's deserts have expanded by hundreds of acres a year (Link) since the 1950's.
We do not need more CO2. Overabundance of phytoplankton chokes out other forms of life, reducing overall ocean diversity. Then there are the giant garbage island floating in both the atlantic and pacific oceans, killing millions of sea creatures and birds every year when they eat the brightly colored plastic trash.

This needs to be fixed. However you want to paint this, we are sh*tting in our own house. There is no upside.

Antimatter: jimi32: Antimatter: jimi32: Antimatter: jimi32: we can't burn dead dinosaurs forever ?
It's not the dinosaurs we are burning...it's the farking plants from the carboniferous asshat

were you talking to him or me? Because I don't remember saying that.

I don't know who I was attacking in that epic quote...but it's not dinosaurs

Well yeah. it's like compressed peat and plant material, although, the rotting of ancient animals did contribute to their growth, I think.

Look around...there's a hell of a lot more plants than animals now..as then

well yeah, i said CONTRIBUTE. Just as rotting things do today. Not the sole source of, however.

The oil that we burn today was at one time plankton. The plants had little to do with it, the dinosaurs not at all. Plankton because there was a lot of it that settled to the bottom of the oceans and was therefore concentrated. Over the millions of years, as more and more plankton died, the pile of dead plankton increased to very large amounts. The plants are not important to this process because when a plant dies it usually rots away and becomes food for other plants. The concentration of plants would not have been high enough to create pools of oil worth pumping out of the ground. Dinosaurs tended to die one at a time and spread out across the landscape. They were usually eaten by other animals. The only substance that had the opportunity to pile up over the centuries was plankton.