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(Fox News)   Syria sets up Iraq the bomb. Rumsfeld: "All Syria are belong to US."   (foxnews.com) divider line 539
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39 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2003 at 2:31 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-03-28 04:04:46 PM  
03-28-03 03:06:13 PM Nostrafarkus
Would we be atttacking Iraq if the twin towers were still standing? I don't think so. Osama wanted a war, well he's got one now, plus a $25,000,000 pricetag on his head.

Would the US pay that in a lump sum, or in installments over 20 years?
 
2003-03-28 04:05:35 PM  
'This is the 8th day of this war and you idiots are screaming quagmire....'

I'm just saying you have no control of towns and your supply lines are getting seriously attacked in many different locations. Not a quagmire but not good either. Or what we were all led to expect.
 
2003-03-28 04:05:59 PM  
Instigator
what got harmonia banished?
Who cares?
 
2003-03-28 04:06:41 PM  
I was wondering which one of the backwards asshat middle eastern countries would beg for the next ass whipping. Looks like we got our answer.
 
2003-03-28 04:06:56 PM  
MauiHaui: Agree, completely...

I'll have to dig the REM CD with that song on it... can't remember which one it is, but seeing that I have them all, it's a no-brainer.
 
2003-03-28 04:07:10 PM  
As opposed to the current solution implemented by the administration, what should have the US done about Iraq? Answer me this, lefties.

Increase the number of inspectors. Move in coalition UN troops to sit on inspected sights, checking every truck moving in and out. Slowly lessen the crippling sanctions, and oversee the distibution of incoming funds & goods to ensure the general Iraqi populous is recieving & benifitting them. Enforce existing human rights regulations & push for a truly democratic election.

It's be a few years in the making, but it would've provided a much more stable Middle east.
 
2003-03-28 04:07:14 PM  
03-28-03 04:00:21 PM Instigator
what got harmonia banished?

He was an instigator.
 
2003-03-28 04:07:27 PM  
03-28-03 03:54:28 PM Nordburg
I am just as foolish as all of you for joining in this thread but, this is my question: As opposed to the current solution implemented by the administration, what should have the US done about Iraq? Answer me this, lefties.

Not necessarily being a 'leftie', I'll field this one.

1) Daddy Bush and Reagan should not have supplied him with chemical and biological weapons, then said nothing when he used them.
2) Why were we buying his oil?
3) Bush the Elder should not have had US ambassador April Glaspie tell Saddam in August 1990 that the US would take no sides in any Arab-Arab conflict.
4) If Saddam is so evil, why did Halliburton, under Cheney's tenure as CEO, do buisness with him?

And do you really not believe this is about oil?
 
2003-03-28 04:07:41 PM  
I_ate_an_X
Kinkladzie-left-foot

Because going blindly into hostile city that is armed to the teeth is stupid? Patience. The Brits have Basra surrounded (500K people) and it is collapsing from within. Baghdad will do the same in a week or two. You forget: Gulf War one lasted 6 weeks. 5 weeks of bombing and one week on the ground. This is the 8th day of this war and you idiots are screaming quagmire....


Desert Storm lasted 100 hours!
 
2003-03-28 04:07:59 PM  
Maui Haui -- Wrong. The Soviets mostly economically FUBARed themselves by persisting with centralized planning and nigh-guaranteed employment combined with a desire to maintain a very expensive nuclear parity; sanctions had little to do with it. In addition, they still managed to militarily support their ideologically similiar compatriots as far as Nicarauga, and otherwise export arms all over the world.
 
2003-03-28 04:08:58 PM  
Key, what part didn't you understand? The point is that the anti-war logic is out to lunch. Do they think the Twin Towers is all we are going to get? The thought process is severly misguided. And dude, I should have known that you were from a state that keeps electing Ted farking Kennedy. And I saw the picture, and yes I can see where you are not getting laid much. Try washing your clothes, that usually helps.
 
2003-03-28 04:09:20 PM  
ZipBeep

"The problem is that it doesn't matter what WE believe they are fighting for - it's what THEY believe they are fighting for - and from what I've seen, they believe that the US is evil."

Moral reletivism has reached a new high water mark after that comment...whew. Using your logic we could excuse the Holocaust because "the Nazis meant well". Yikes.
 
2003-03-28 04:10:05 PM  
03-28-03 04:02:32 PM I_ate_an_X
Nurble

Aljazeera, even-handed? Please.


their defense for showing the soldiers was that they were showing the realities of war. Several US stations and the BBC ran the images as well, before the Pentagon asked them to stop. The job of journalists is to report events, not to sift through them and decide what the public can handle and what it can't, or what is right and what is wrong.

They also carry most US military briefings live, to the chagrin of many of the locals. fyi.
 
2003-03-28 04:10:45 PM  
Sanctions? So Sadaam could then sell his oil on the black market and pocket even more cash, which he could use to sponsor Palestinian suicide bombers? Or develop a nuke that could be smuggled into Israel-or worse- the United States? A man with convictions, modivation, and money = a dangerous combination.

The only solution, in my mind, is to remove this individual. Twelve years of sanctions did not accomplish much.
 
2003-03-28 04:10:45 PM  
AuntOfDogFace: I'm surprised at you! You should know me better than that by now. I'm not saying all who oppose the war are hippies. But the vocal opponents have failed to provide a credible argument to me. It all sounds like the same old tired rhetoric that oversimplifies the situation, and betrays the true complexities of the issue.
 
2003-03-28 04:11:12 PM  
Nordburg
I figured you're one of the first to deserve it, this flame, so here goes.



/asshat
 
2003-03-28 04:14:46 PM  
"And do you really not believe this is about oil?"

I think Dennis Miller said it best... If your only anti-war slogan is "No War For Oil," hire a pit bull lawyer and sue your school district for having allowed you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the minimum education that any non-troglodyte deserves.
 
2003-03-28 04:15:14 PM  
Nordburg
And why is Bush considered to be such a bad guy? He's fulfilling the primary role of government, which is protecting its borders, interests, and (obviously) its people. As opposed to gettin blow jobs and slahing our military budget to dangerously low levels. Clinton rode the wave of Reganomics and acomplished nothing.

By the way, if the previous regime took the stance that GW is right now, there would still be 3,000 American citiizens with us.

I really hate liberals.


I've never been so proud to be hated, Nordburg. We've got borders with Iraq? Do Canada and Mexico know about this?
 
2003-03-28 04:16:24 PM  
Gulf war 1 was about getting them out of Kuwait. Gulf war 2 is about invading their homeland. Very different I would say.
 
2003-03-28 04:16:33 PM  
Zip Beep: 100 hours following six weeks of bombing, and when the Iraqis were mostly deployed out in the open.

Bit different now--they learned to keep closer to the cities.
 
2003-03-28 04:16:45 PM  
 
2003-03-28 04:17:07 PM  
AuntOfDogFace & Synesthesia - Syn, love the name BTW.

My late father, who was a CIA agent, would have been against this war, and he wasn't a hippie.

That would have been I discussion I would have enjoyed. I will never fault someone their position, as long as they represent it well. I just feel the opposers haven't given me anything compelling.
 
2003-03-28 04:17:24 PM  
Ahhhhhhhhhhh.......like I said. I'm just as foolish to join this converstion.

I wish the world was as simple and uncomplicated that some of you perceive it to be.
 
2003-03-28 04:18:18 PM  
03-28-03 04:08:58 PM BenJaxBchFL

So you think waging war with Iraq is going to stop another Sept 11 from happening? Again, reading comprehension must not get taught to accountants, because I said I don't agree with anti-war folks in general. My question to them would be, "fine war is hell, but what's the alternative in this case?" I do question the timing. Our Gov't couldn't give two shiats about Iraqi civilians up until a few months ago. why not wait until we have full UN cooperation and funding?

Nice try on the personal attack, though your flame bait is weak old man.
 
2003-03-28 04:19:08 PM  
So much anger people -- there's so much I will kill you if you don't support my opnion you fark you pissant you raaaaa!

But since it is oh-so-enjoyable and enticing to enter the flame war:

We had 3 choices on Iraq -- pretty much:

1. Go to war in order to get regime change
2. Attempt to have a long-lasting inspections/sanctions regime in Iraq
3. Drop sanctions, allow Saddam to remain in power

The US Governement opted for #1, and we are now stuck with it.

If you support this choice, the only way it has a chance to become 'moral' is if in the end a real democracy is established in Iraq -- and that requires a long-term commitment not some kind of "raw-dog and bail" once Saddam is gone.

If you are in this for the people -- were you in it for the people in Rwanda? What about right now in Sierra Leone? In Burma?

If you are concerned about repurcussions here at home and think this is about WMD -- then write your congressperson and tell them (with what power they still have left) to support nonproliferation efforts abroad. Worried about a terrorist getting some nasty shiat from Saddam? Me too, but only in the long-term. In the short-term there's all kinds of WMD material (who wants some High-Enriched Uranium -- anyone, anyone?) floating around former Soviet Republics and we've slashed funding to recover it.

But, to return to the flame-war, we have to think about how we are actually going to convince the 90% of the world that thinks the US is out to attack it, that we're not (because we're not right?) And that 'war' is not won by loudmouthed pronouncments about who we are going to string up when.

/sigh
 
2003-03-28 04:19:15 PM  
"These deliveries pose a direct threat to the lives of coalition forces," Rumsfeld said at a Pentagon briefing. "We consider such trafficking as hostile acts, and will hold the Syrian government responsible for the incidents."

That's funny - I thought our excessive bombing was a "direct threat" to Iraqi forces - and civilians for that matter - but I must be mistaken because then the US government would have be held accountable.

It's a WAR, Donald, weapons ARE going to be used... and Iraq DOES have friends. Moron.
 
2003-03-28 04:20:21 PM  
BenJaxBchFL
Key, what part didn't you understand? The point is that the anti-war logic is out to lunch. Do they think the Twin Towers is all we are going to get? The thought process is severly misguided. And dude, I should have known that you were from a state that keeps electing Ted farking Kennedy. And I saw the picture, and yes I can see where you are not getting laid much. Try washing your clothes, that usually helps.


The POINT is that the war in Iraq is NOT stopping ANY terrorism. The POINT is that the terrorists were part of the bin Laden organization, most of which is still on the loose, including bin Laden himself.

Let's go after the terrorists.

BTW, your last points don't help your argument at all.
 
2003-03-28 04:20:38 PM  
Nordburg -- Yup. The Iraqi oil sanctions are quite openly ignored by oil smuggling into quite a few of Iraq's neighbors. In addition, the allegedly contained Iraqi government funds the Arab Liberation Front, which hands out substantial payments to the kin of suicide bombers and their ilk.
 
2003-03-28 04:21:02 PM  
My God... wake me up when we have an original AND good argument for going to war, or for NOT going to war.

I'm in support of it... not FOR the war, but in support of it. But damn... it seems like the good arguments were used up long ago and now all we have is the same worthless arguments being volleyed back and forth.
 
2003-03-28 04:22:00 PM  
Hang in there, Nordburg, you're exactly right.

I suggest we all turn off the TV for about 48 hours. This things gonna look a lot different then. Give the A10s, F18s and Apaches time to strut their stuff.
 
2003-03-28 04:22:19 PM  
Andrew North BBC News website

'Here on the frontline this conflict is taking its toll on morale.

I can see the signs in the US marines I am with outside Nasiriyah.

Quite a few of the troops have said to me that this isn't what they were expecting.

They have had a tiring week of guerrilla-style fighting and it continues.

They are frustrated that their political masters gave the American public the impression that it would be easier than it's turned out to be.

But, also that they should have given them more expectation about Iraqi resistance like this.

They don't want to admit they can't deal with it, but I think there is definitely a sense that it is not the kind of fighting that they were really trained for.

One Marine told me: "I've had enough of being fired at from all directions, I just want to go home".
 
2003-03-28 04:22:49 PM  
The fundamentalist Christianity that Bush and others in his admin are into is WAY too tied into Armageddon in the Middle East for my liking. I have no problem whatsoever in believing they think they are ushering in the second coming of Christ. This is not funny anymore. The Bush admin must get booted in 2004 or we will begin mutating from fallout in less than 5 years.
 
Ant
2003-03-28 04:23:39 PM  
03-28-03 04:03:06 PM ZipBeep
The problem is that it doesn't matter what WE believe they are fighting for - it's what THEY believe they are fighting for - and from what I've seen, they believe that the US is evil.


Some of them may think we're evil, but most of them are probably thinking "if I don't fight, the republican guard is going to rape and kill my family"
 
2003-03-28 04:23:47 PM  
03-28-03 04:14:46 PM Grubby_Beetle
"And do you really not believe this is about oil?"


I think Dennis Miller said it best... If your only anti-war slogan is "No War For Oil," hire a pit bull lawyer and sue your school district for having allowed you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the minimum education that any non-troglodyte deserves.

Agreed. There are plenty more reasons to oppose this war, but oil has plenty to do with the causes.
 
2003-03-28 04:23:48 PM  
ZipBeep: And how many terrorist acts has the "on the loose" OBL and al Quaeda committed since the US took action?

None you say? Thought so.

They're in hiding because we're after them, and would be active if we were not.
 
2003-03-28 04:24:06 PM  
Full article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2896439.stm
 
2003-03-28 04:24:08 PM  
4:20pm and time to head home.
Nite all.
 
2003-03-28 04:24:43 PM  
DrBenway

"We've got borders with Iraq?"


You were presented with a fact; chose to completely ignore it; then gave an erroneous response based on emotion. Yep, you're a liberal.
 
2003-03-28 04:26:20 PM  
This will not stop until every Muslim "extremist" is dead.

I use quotes because it's hard to be an extremist in a country entirely populated by fellow extremists in a region made up of countries populated entirely by extremists.
 
2003-03-28 04:26:44 PM  
I_ate_an_X

"The problem is that it doesn't matter what WE believe they are fighting for - it's what THEY believe they are fighting for - and from what I've seen, they believe that the US is evil."

Moral reletivism has reached a new high water mark after that comment...whew. Using your logic we could excuse the Holocaust because "the Nazis meant well". Yikes.


You need to read AND comprehend.

I'm not giving any moral judgment here. I'm not saying the Iraqis are right. I'm telling you that's why they are continuing to fight, much to the surprise of Donald Rumsfeld, who thought they all would surrender at least or overthrow Saddam in the best case scenario.

He wasn't exactly right, was he?

Neither were you, though, Mr. Moral RELATIVISM.
 
2003-03-28 04:26:48 PM  
Nordburg
I wish the world was as simple and uncomplicated that some of you perceive it to be.

This from someone who commented: "...if the previous regime took the stance that GW is right now, there would still be 3,000 American citiizens with us"? Methinks your refrigerator's got a burned-out bulb...
 
2003-03-28 04:27:20 PM  
Harmonia BANNED?

Can I get a w00t w00t?
 
2003-03-28 04:27:28 PM  
fark syria
 
2003-03-28 04:27:54 PM  
Diogenes: Guess you could say I'm getting very tired of the name-calling. Everyone sounds like a bunch of 3rd graders.

Besides the obvious reasons, it would be pretty cool to have my Dad around. He spent quite a bit of time in the Middle East in the late 60's, and I bet he would have some pretty good insight. It was a shame he "had to" retire. My brother got caught smuggling drugs out of India while we lived there (it was 1970-1972, what can I say?), and my Dad pretty much knew that he wouldn't be getting any more overseas postings. That, coupled with some of the funky stuff going on in the Nixon administration, led him to retiring at 54. He put in a good 30 years with Uncle Sam, though.

/sorry about going off on a tagent, but we are talking about my Daddy!/
 
2003-03-28 04:28:25 PM  
PROWAR LOGIC
(as taken from a cartoon i saw)


"this is a just war! Saddam hussein is an evil man who has killed thousands of innocent iraqis! we must fee the people of iraq from the dictor by, uh, killing thousands of iraqi citizens! sure, we've bombed or invaded 19 countries since the end of ww2 and didnt install a democratic governemnt respectful of human rights in any of them, but THIS time we'll get it right!"

"anti war means anti american! Dissent must be crushed! Freedom of speech is against everything this country stands for! real americans support our troops, while those commie pinko hippys actually want the soldiers at home instead of getting killed and killing oversease! Shame on them! Ashcroft oughta round them up along with all the arab americans!"

"Iraq is connected to 9/11! well none of the hijackers were from iraq, saddamn and usama hate eachother and theres absolutely no evidence supporting riaq and al qaeda, but my GUT tells me theres a connection! I mean, theyre all arabs right?? thats good enough for me!"

This war is going to stop terrorism! Potential suicide bombers are going to look at all those dead iraqi civilians and realize the error of their ways. I bet peple in the middle east are going to LOVE us for this! We're only bombing them for gosh sakes, why would they want to retaliat, i mean, i know we're attacking them, but they're sure to realize its for their own good!"
 
2003-03-28 04:28:45 PM  
Anyone remember the Bushies saying the war in Iraq would not destabilize the middle east? Reporters would ask that question and they'd just poo-poo it away. Guess what? Iran, Turkey and Syria are all getting involved one way or another.

Personally I want our troops to kick major butt. Burn the cities and towns, waste them all. Any Iraqi civilian could be working in the bomb factories or chemical munitions plants. People die in war, it ain't pretty.

Strangely the Bushies are trying to make us look like "nice, cuddly" invaders. Waging a war half-assed is very dangerous and ultimately stupid. Of course I've come to expect stupid from the likes of Bush, Cheney, Dumbsfeld and Wolfoshiat.

I fully support our troops. I want us to win and win fast. I do not support the administration however who seem to have come up with one of the goofiest war plans in known history. We learned in Vietnam how bad it could be when dumbass politicians command the military in battle. It seems the Bush administration forgot that lesson or, more likely, just ignored it.

I also have the odd feeling the christian fanatic Bushies actually want Armageddon to come so they can be raptured and go see Jesus while all their enemies burn in hell on Earth. Scary thought, good thing I'm insane so I know it can't be true. I hope.
 
G2V
2003-03-28 04:29:20 PM  
Don't the morons in charge over there realize that all they are doing is providing the perfect opportunity to hide domestic US problems behind a big patriotic flag? Maybe they're hoping that by the time the last middle eastern country is turned into a parking lot our infrastructure will have collapsed... Until then they're just making the gov over here happy.
 
2003-03-28 04:29:57 PM  
 
2003-03-28 04:31:44 PM  
I agree, Roy. The public is only seeing fragments of whats auctually happening, yet all of a sudden every asshat is an arm-chair general becuase they watched some talking head on CNN explain the accuracy of a tomahawk or read an article about what the "NBC" stands for in NBC suit.

Step the fvck off all, and let the individuals who are HIGHLY trained handle the situation. The U.S. military is not considered the best in the world by chance.
 
2003-03-28 04:32:43 PM  
Key, the question on why not wait is probably something that will not get answered. But if the US had intellingence that said we needed to act on it now and that we could not reveal in detail why, less we lose a valuable asset, then what is the President to do? See that is the mind blower. Why not ask the simple question? Where are the WMD's that were known in previous inspections? Where the hell are they? Why in the hell do you think they could not answer that? Pretty basic stuff. And why can't the anti war crowd answer that one?

Hey Key if you are not old you might want to save your money for some hookers. You're not looking to good bud. Bathe, lighten up on the drinking and smoking and get some excercise.
 
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