I don't see why anyone would risk being a teacher these days when kids have so much power over adults. We should just stick them in front of computers or require every parent to home school, they don't deserve instructors.

Exonerated because of discrepancies between the two "victims"' stories, even AFTER he'd already passed a lie detector...

Yeah, damn good thing there were two of the little bastards in on this together. If there'd been only one, they'd have taken the abuse as read and thrown this man in jail for 20 years of PMITA.

Why is this the only crime where the accusation seems to be enough (usually) to get you locked up for good? If they had claimed a violent assault, or a mugging, you certainly wouldn't convict them on the kids' say-so.

I have 3 boys and 2 girls. Children lie. Little girls doubly so.

madmann: Exonerated because of discrepancies between the two "victims"' stories, even AFTER he'd already passed a lie detector...

Yeah, damn good thing there were two of the little bastards in on this together. If there'd been only one, they'd have taken the abuse as read and thrown this man in jail for 20 years of PMITA.

Why is this the only crime where the accusation seems to be enough (usually) to get you locked up for good? If they had claimed a violent assault, or a mugging, you certainly wouldn't convict them on the kids' say-so.

I have 3 boys and 2 girls. Children lie. Little girls doubly so.

I wonder if they were reading The Crucible.

"I would have (had) to discredit these students in a public forum," Mr. Burwell said. "It would have been a public circus. My calling in education was to help students, not to discredit them."

Certainly admirable the lengths you will go for such a calling, but as an aspiring teacher I would say discrediting those students in a public forum will do the most good for them.

In my first few years of teaching, I was accused of favoring some of the girls in my class (by another girl that was failing). The vice principal at the time interviewed all the students in the class, and basically conducted an investigation without my knowledge. It turned out, of course, I was completely and utterly innocent.

But it was a good lesson to me on how freakin guarded you have to be at ALL times. I visualize a bubble around me that no student may cross. I love teaching, but I know I'm one false accusation away from losing my job -- so the key is to give them absolutely nothing to build on.

How do you know when a kid is lying? Their mouth is moving. All kids should be presumed guilty until proven otherwise. Its human nature to be dishonest and to look out only for yourself. You have to be taught otherwise and many parents are not very good teachers or role models.

Vangor: "I would have (had) to discredit these students in a public forum," Mr. Burwell said. "It would have been a public circus. My calling in education was to help students, not to discredit them."

Certainly admirable the lengths you will go for such a calling, but as an aspiring teacher I would say discrediting those students in a public forum will do the most good for them.

This.

It bugs the shiat out of me that these two girls will go on with their lives as if they did nothing wrong. They may experience a twinge of guilt for a moment, but its doubtful. They may even be looked up to as 'rebels sticking it to the man' by their friends.

Why the hell is he adjusting a student's shirt? It's not like she was a kindergartner and unable to do it herself.

Resigning to protect the supposed liars? So two liars are worth his good name and all the other students he can no longer help? His story reeks of bullshiat.

The Icelander: gadian:

I'm sorry your experiences with other humans, especially children, have been so negative.

I have very few negative experiences with children. I just know what kids are like. They're blank moral slates and unsocialized animals. That's not a bad thing, its just how they are. How anyone with a shred of common sense would take a child's word over an adult's without substantial proof is, however, beyond my understanding.

The Icelander: gadian: How do you know when a kid is lying? Their mouth is moving. All kids should be presumed guilty until proven otherwise. Its human nature to be dishonest and to look out only for yourself. You have to be taught otherwise and many parents are not very good teachers or role models.

I'm sorry your experiences with other humans, especially children, have been so negative.

From her profile: I have little tolerance for foolishness, inefficiency, and childishness. I'm honest (and sometimes critical) to a fault and if you ever lose my respect, not only will I inform you of it, but you'll never earn it back.

That's just cutting out the crap and the useless people. You'd like me if you got to know me though. If I like you, I really like you and will do almost anything for you.

I am very passionate about very few things and as a result, I know a lot about those things. Don't question my facts if I offer them on a subject (which rarely happens as I love sharing anecdotal evidence), I have no reason to lie to you.

These are the words of someone who will have noone at their funeral.

gadian: How do you know when a kid is lying? Their mouth is moving. All kids should be presumed guilty until proven otherwise. Its human nature to be dishonest and to look out only for yourself. You have to be taught otherwise and many parents are not very good teachers or role models.


As a former Social Worker that now pretty much hates all children and most adults; QFT!

TheDirtyNacho: The Icelander:

These are the words of someone who will have noone at their funeral.

Well, no one expect my close friends, large family - genetic and non - and those who appreciate my community service. But go ahead and try to personally attack someone for stating the truth. I'm not sure what your problem is with me, but you can blow me.

*except

"FTFA: I would have (had) to discredit these students in a public forum," Mr. Burwell said. "It would have been a public circus. My calling in education was to help students, not to discredit them."

Too F-IN BAD!
Until someone stands up an embarrasses the children and, then if the parents agree in any manner to their children's story, SUES THE PARENTS for defamation and libel this will continue.

gadian: TheDirtyNacho: The Icelander:

These are the words of someone who will have noone at their funeral.

Well, no one expect my close friends, large family - genetic and non - and those who appreciate my community service. But go ahead and try to personally attack someone for stating the truth. I'm not sure what your problem is with me, but you can blow me.

Good luck in life, strange lady of the internets...

Falsely accusing somebody of rape/sexual assault should have the same consequences as rape/sexual assault. I've got a friend who was falsely accused of that in high school, I was with him on the night in question. I'm the only reason he didn't get convicted, he's totally innocent, and he's still haunted by it. Trouble sleeping, he's basically afraid to approach women in any way now. It's like he was raped, but gets absolutely no support.

I had a student this year who was a complete and utter terror. The student was always out of his seat, always yelling out in class, and constantly making inappropriate comments to the rest of my students (who would all do their work without incident). Calling his mother was futile, since she always believed that her child could do no wrong. It was always either the other student's fault or the teacher's fault. The kicker was that she is also a teacher. Anyway, one day, the mother came in to fuss at another teacher because she wrote up her precious little snowflake. They held a conference in the classroom with the snowflake present, and right in the middle of the conference, my lovely little student interrupted to tell his mother that I had let one of my other students (who always does her work and never gives me any trouble) push her boobs in his face. I knew this was total bullshiat since I watched that class like a hawk and never saw that. He also claimed that he told me about it several times, but in reality, he never did. I'm sure the precious snowflake made up that story about me so that he could avoid getting in trouble. At any rate, I told my principal first thing in the morning, and he and all of the other teachers of this student are behind me 100%.

1. Put snakes on plane: Resigning to protect the supposed liars? So two liars are worth his good name and all the other students he can no longer help? His story reeks of bullshiat.

He was probably protecting himself more so. Accusations like this would make him guilty until proven guilty, and if he stayed at his job, continued to live in the community and just challenged the accusers to justify themselves, he may find himself at the wrong end of some vigilante. He has every right to continue the life he had, but sometimes it's the wiser choice not to stand up in the middle of that shiat storm.

The Icelander: That's a good reason I don't want to teach: It just takes one pissed of teenager to ruin your career.

\That and the pay
\\And the hours
\\\And the parents
\\\\And the administrators
\\And the students

This Job would be great if it weren't for the students :)

Ever catch a kid with a cookie in their hands and ask them if they took the cookie and the kid says 'no, i didn't take the cookie'? Then when you say 'the cookie is in your hand, why did you take it?' the kid says 'I don't know'. This is kind of like that but should involve criminal charges.

I had a student accuse me of punishing her for a lengthy period of time, making her sit in the corner while the rest of the class played a game. It was utter bullshiat. She went home and told her dad about it. Her dad called the school and we straightened it out.

Kids are very good liars when they don't get their way.

gadian: Ever catch a kid with a cookie in their hands and ask them if they took the cookie and the kid says 'no, i didn't take the cookie'? Then when you say 'the cookie is in your hand, why did you take it?' the kid says 'I don't know'. This is kind of like that but should involve criminal charges.

Yeah, I learned that my first year of teaching. A kid threw a wad of paper. I asked: "Who threw that?" -- and of course no one answered. The next time a kid threw a piece of paper I said: "Whoever threw that, please pick it up" (and then pretended like I didn't care). The guilty kid stepped up and picked up the paper.

Kids and Adults interpret things differently nowadays. I'm a swim coach (and a man) and yesterday one of my divers (a girl) finally got a first place finish. I ran up to her, she screamed in joy and we did that "hold hands jump up and down yelling" type of celebration because she was excited for finally winning and I was excited for her hard work having paid off. I'm sure to most people though it looked like the 2 of us standing there holding hands. I would have hugged her out of joy but a grown man hugging a 16 year old who is in a bathing suit....yeah, imagine people interpreting that. All this dude was adjust someones shirt and all of a sudden he is labeled a pedo and is ruined. That will follow him wherever he goes now. Hopefully my celebration yesterday doesnt devolve into "Mr. ___ was totally holding hands and groping on one of his divers, OFF WITH HIS HEAD."

The Icelander: That's a good reason I don't want to teach: It just takes one pissed of teenager to ruin your career.

\That and the pay
\\And the hours
\\\And the parents
\\\\And the administrators
\\And the students

Here here. I made it through student teaching and that was the last time I wanted to teach in a high school. You are a glorified babysitter who is at the mercy of crazy parents, inane policies and a stress level that isn't worth the pay.

Personally, there is too much restriction on the students esp with the cell phone/ipod policies. You want to spend all class texting or listening to music? Fine. But when its test time or you are failing, don't come to me for any help. Instead teachers spend their time confinscating these items for punishment.

Let them dig their own holes and clean up their own messes.

When you spend the first decade or so telling your children that a fat man flies around the world delivering presents to children who believe he exists, can you really be that surprised when they start making up their own fairy tales?

gadian: I'm not sure what your problem is with me, but you can blow me.

As an aside, I don't have a problem with your bluntness, but I remember you mentioning that you waited tables, and wondered how you managed to make any money doing it. I know some people can really rake in the tips, but they always seem to be the fake ass-kissy or flirtatious types.

Timanous: edmo: Don't know why he thinks he doing the kids a favor by not fighting them. Now society has too more brats who know they can do whatever without consequences.

He wants to make sure he can get another job. He isn't being altruistic at all...

Since he didn't actually do anything wrong, what's wrong with this approach ? He SHOULD be able to get another job.

madmann: Exonerated because of discrepancies between the two "victims"' stories, even AFTER he'd already passed a lie detector...

And the sheriff's dept said there was no wrong doing. I wonder if the school system had it out for him. Or maybe it's easier to wash your hands of someone than stand up to protect them.

Do_Not_Want: I had a student this year who was a complete and utter terror.

My daugher's preschool had a kid like this. Teacher wanted the kid out, parent maintained that there kid would never do the horrible crimes they were accused of. Parent (single mom and her bull dyke lover) came to pick the kid up one day and while the head of the school is talking to them about their kid little Johnny comes running over and pushes a 2yo down. Needless to say that was his last day there.

Vangor: "I would have (had) to discredit these students in a public forum," Mr. Burwell said. "It would have been a public circus. My calling in education was to help students, not to discredit them."

Certainly admirable the lengths you will go for such a calling, but as an aspiring teacher I would say discrediting those students in a public forum will do the most good for them.

This. They deserve every bit of the public humiliation and scorn you can pile on them for something like this.

dionada:


As an aside, I don't have a problem with your bluntness, but I remember you mentioning that you waited tables, and wondered how you managed to make any money doing it. I know some people can really rake in the tips, but they always seem to be the fake ass-kissy or flirtatious types.

I did my job. People appreciate an effective waitress more than a kissy/flirty incompetent one. I did pretty good on tips, but not enough to keep me as a waitress.

gadian: Ever catch a kid with a cookie in their hands and ask them if they took the cookie and the kid says 'no, i didn't take the cookie'? Then when you say 'the cookie is in your hand, why did you take it?' the kid says 'I don't know'. This is kind of like that but should involve criminal charges.

I don't know. Generally, brain damage makes a person 'not guilty'.

gadian: I did my job. People appreciate an effective waitress more than a kissy/flirty incompetent one. I did pretty good on tips, but not enough to keep me as a waitress.

I understand. I'm good at my job, but the people who appreciate my skill and efficiency are far outnumbered by those who tell me "you should smile more."

TheDirtyNacho 2009-12-06 10:17:54 AM

The Icelander: gadian: How do you know when a kid is lying? Their mouth is moving. All kids should be presumed guilty until proven otherwise. Its human nature to be dishonest and to look out only for yourself. You have to be taught otherwise and many parents are not very good teachers or role models.

I'm sorry your experiences with other humans, especially children, have been so negative.

From her profile: I have little tolerance for foolishness, inefficiency, and childishness. I'm honest (and sometimes critical) to a fault and if you ever lose my respect, not only will I inform you of it, but you'll never earn it back.

That's just cutting out the crap and the useless people. You'd like me if you got to know me though. If I like you, I really like you and will do almost anything for you.

I am very passionate about very few things and as a result, I know a lot about those things. Don't question my facts if I offer them on a subject (which rarely happens as I love sharing anecdotal evidence), I have no reason to lie to you.

These are the words of someone who will have noone at their funeral.

/WoW

Timanous: Dreddsnik: Timanous: edmo: Don't know why he thinks he doing the kids a favor by not fighting them. Now society has too more brats who know they can do whatever without consequences.

He wants to make sure he can get another job. He isn't being altruistic at all...

Since he didn't actually do anything wrong, what's wrong with this approach ? He SHOULD be able to get another job.

Theoretically, he should be able to, yes.

But when he gets his next teaching job and a parent Googles his name, they will only read the headlines saying he is a child molester, not that charges were dismissed and the accusers lied.

Parents won't read the article, they will just call for the teacher's head to the local school board.

I wonder if any of my parents have ever googled me? Maybe I need to google myself just to check.

Even based on the stupidity of posters in this thread alone, the human race is doomed.

Timanous: Dreddsnik: Timanous: edmo: Don't know why he thinks he doing the kids a favor by not fighting them. Now society has too more brats who know they can do whatever without consequences.

He wants to make sure he can get another job. He isn't being altruistic at all...

Since he didn't actually do anything wrong, what's wrong with this approach ? He SHOULD be able to get another job.

Theoretically, he should be able to, yes.

But when he gets his next teaching job and a parent Googles his name, they will only read the headlines saying he is a child molester, not that charges were dismissed and the accusers lied.

Parents won't read the article, they will just call for the teacher's head to the local school board.

Reading is hard.

Domestica: Kids are being taught that it's ok to lie. Have you ever watched any of the shows they watch? The bigger and more flamboyant the lie the better. Say what you will about PBS programming, but if I had little monsters running around that's all they'd watch when I let them watch TV.
And we all know little liars just grow up to be big liars.

Holy farking THIS. Any of you ever watch kid's shows these days? Practically every freaking episode involves the main characters lying their asses off about something, eventually getting caught, but everything turning out OK in the end. They never face any real consequences...it's crap.