I realize that they can get away with using proprietary firmware in phones to disable most of the features built in to the phones so they can charge monthly fees to 'activate' the services *cough*tethering,gps,ringtones,musictransfer,etc*cough*, but the fact that they rebind funtions to keys that have been made non-programmable or non-deletable and just coincidentally are attached to web services must be a complete oversight. There's no way an above-board company like Verizon would stoop that low for a buck.

No way.

ZAZ: Contract law question: does accidental pressing of a button bind a person to the consequences, at least beyond the actual incremental cost to the service provider?

The "law" only matters if you can afford to hire a lawyer to fight Verizon, and that generally costs more than $1.99. ...so until the fraudulent charges approach a number where they're worth fighting, questions of legality are almost entirely academic.

ZAZ: Now that's evil. You get to pay a blocking-the-fee fee.

Yo dawg...

companies rip people off.

BalugaJoe: companies rip people off.

Insightful and poignant!

roblarky: Yo dawg...

Mike_LowELL: Hey, you guys elected Obama...

The FCC did?

How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

I sell Verizon.
I have never had anyone get that accidental button ding on their account once the web is blocked. I do agree that Verizon sucks for mapping it to the dpad keys, but most phones do have remappable shortcut keys.

As for the $350 term. fee hike? Yeah, wtf? Thank you Verizon for making you harder to sell. Brilliant.

They do have the best coverage, though, in my rural area(please God, get me out of this hell-hole).

Verizon had said that the extra charge was needed to help recoup costs rip people off of "free" or discounted refurbished garbage smartphones.

/ah. thats better

Mike_LowELL: Capo Del Bandito: The FCC did?

I'm just trying to make the point that the bailouts, corporate welfare, 9/11, and Bill Clinton didn't happen until Barack Hussein Obama usurped power.

I was trying to be a smartass with a play on words.

And no, it wasn't just Obama. I blame the public as well. The people allow this type of thing to happen.

Nakito: How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

You have every right to do that, you just need to pay full retail price for the phone.

ZAZ: Now that's evil. You get to pay a blocking-the-fee fee.

There is no fee. To block data access you can call customer care and ask or more easily you can add the block to the line of service when you manage your account online. Also, if you inadvertantly do it you can just call customer care and they will immediately credit your account.

Eyebleach: I realize that they can get away with using proprietary firmware in phones to disable most of the features built in to the phones so they can charge monthly fees to 'activate' the services

Android is completely open and fully featured. More basic phones have a unified desktop which does manage services and functions. All new PDAs and Smartphones are coming out with WiFi and open Bluetooth.


And the new ETF is only there to protect Verizon. These new devices are very expensive. The Droid actually costs $550, but the company provides a $350 discount. That discount is backed by a contract which requires both voice and data. Previosuly, the voice contract was balanced at $175. Now that Verizon requires a data plan on PDAs and Smartphones they will essentially give you twice the discount since the two years of data service will support the extra $175. The math is very simple. If you don't break your contract and want to use the device as it is intended this is a great deal for you. If you don't, Verizon doesn't want to sell you a $550 device for $200 and than charge an old $175 ETF. By increasing the ETF the company will at least not lose money on a purchase followed by a disconnect.

And since when do Americans need the FCC to babysit what contracts businesses offer. It isn't like Verizon is failing to disclose this. Oh yea, and the new higher ETF drops twice as fast as the old one.

Nakito: How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

this is possible with Verizon Wireless. If you don't want a contract, you pay full retail pricing for the equipment. As for data charges, if you do press a button that brings you to the mobile web, it doesn't charge you unless you make it past the opening landing page. Granted, that's a relatively recent development, but still.

The doubled early termination fees is a bit eyebrow-raising, but no one is forcing you to sign a contract.

/Verizon Wireless service rep.

Come to Canada, where they rip you off up front. Then they apologise. Then they charge you for the apology.

Nakito
How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

If this went into effect tomorrow, do you think the wireless companies would reduce their monthly charges? If not, you'd be paying the same monthly charges plus the cost of the phone -- so essentially everybody would be paying the equivalent of the termination fee

FeedTheCollapse: Nakito: How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

this is possible with Verizon Wireless. If you don't want a contract, you pay full retail pricing for the equipment. As for data charges, if you do press a button that brings you to the mobile web, it doesn't charge you unless you make it past the opening landing page. Granted, that's a relatively recent development, but still.

The doubled early termination fees is a bit eyebrow-raising, but no one is forcing you to sign a contract.

/Verizon Wireless service repTroll.

FTFY

Rozinante: Come to Canada, where they rip you off up front. Then they apologise. Then they charge you for the apology.

Canadians' politeness frightens me.

I called up there once when I worked as an auditor for a logistics company. called a number up to canada to contact a Canadian Freight shipping company and got a nice old lady. She said she apparently had the freight companies' old phone number, said it was no problem, and said "Hold on I'll go look up their new number for you real quick". And did so.

Creepy.

averagejoe42: /Verizon Wireless service repTroll.

FTFY



nice rebuttal.

(someone needs to dial #DATA to check their MB usage)

madgonad: And since when do Americans need the FCC to babysit what contracts businesses offer. It isn't like Verizon is failing to disclose this. Oh yea, and the new higher ETF drops twice as fast as the old one.

Think for ourselves? That's just crazy talk!

mjones73: Think for ourselves? That's just crazy talk!

Next he'll tell us people should be responsible for their own credit and not spend so endlessly on shiat they don't need!

neritz: This is why I bought my smartphone outright. No contract. No termination fees. Less headaches.


I've never been to a store that would sell you a phone without a contract no matter what you pay...mainly because the salesman's commission is based on how many signed contracts he collects, not the number of sales he makes. So if you don't go for the contract, they really don't care if you buy or not.

Egalitarian: Random video of the day:

The same Taiwanese outfit that did the Tiger Woods video has done many more, including this one of a son beating his mom to death, or not.

It's like watching a video game cut scene, but I don't know what game you'd be playing. Beat Mama?

Are you a goddamn adbot? WTF does this have to do with anything?

No_One_Special: Are you a goddamn adbot? WTF does this have to do with anything?

It's about tabbed browsing. Not everyone can handle tabbed browsing.

Nakito: How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

Welcome to the concept of unlocked GSM phones AKA what most of the planet uses.
Here, have a look at what you can buy from China for cheap. (new window)
I figure if everybody is going to build them there anyways I might as well order straight from the source.

Aeonite: My AT&T phone has that Mobile button too. I was getting dinged 10 cents for accidentally hitting it and immediately canceling.

I called them up and asked them to disable it and they did. No more charges.

It is irritating that it's the largest, most central button on the phone, though.

I did the same. I turned off texts as well. If only the largest, most central button were, I don't know, the ON button.

Now how many times I been on here saying this(since Att maps)

Capo Del Bandito: Rozinante: Come to Canada, where they rip you off up front. Then they apologise. Then they charge you for the apology.

Canadians' politeness frightens me.

I called up there once when I worked as an auditor for a logistics company. called a number up to canada to contact a Canadian Freight shipping company and got a nice old lady. She said she apparently had the freight companies' old phone number, said it was no problem, and said "Hold on I'll go look up their new number for you real quick". And did so.

Creepy.

I must be from Canadia. Working at a store in the Albany area (518 area code) I got a call that came up on the phone as 212 (Manhattan). Some old lady asked for William; I told her there was no William here. She read off the phone number she dialed and I pointed out she accidentally dialed 518 instead of 516, the area code of Long Island just outside of Queens.

/yes I'm from New York
//no, not the City

Hacker_X: Nakito: How about this:

1. When you open your account, the service provider doesn't give you a phone. Instead, you pay for whatever phone you want.

2. When you close your account, the provider has no need to charge a termination fee because they have no product cost to recoup since they didn't give you the damned phone.

That would work for me.

Welcome to the concept of unlocked GSM phones AKA what most of the planet uses.
Here, have a look at what you can buy from China for cheap. (new window)
I figure if everybody is going to build them there anyways I might as well order straight from the source.

Ooh...nice page...I'm trying to decide between the aPhone and the BlueBerry.

*snicker*

Mike_LowELL [TotalFark] Quote 2009-12-05 02:36:49 PM

I'm just trying to make the point that the bailouts, corporate welfare, 9/11, and Bill Clinton didn't happen until Barack Hussein Obama usurped power.
>>>

perfect troll

but ronnie reagan and his republican gimps told me for 20 odd years that the government is evil and that "government IS the problem"


i don't want the government interfering with these poor, innocent multi Billion dollar telcos.

where is THEIR rights not to be harassed by that bad ole' government??


Reagan's back! to fix it all!



Link (new window)

I just got off the phone with ATT and canceled an accidental data fee, so I'm getting a kick...

Aeonite: My AT&T phone has that Mobile button too. I was getting dinged 10 cents for accidentally hitting it and immediately canceling.

I called them up and asked them to disable it and they did. No more charges.

It is irritating that it's the largest, most central button on the phone, though.

Irritating is one word for it. Maliciously intentional is probably more accurate.

No_One_Special: Are you a goddamn adbot? WTF does this have to do with anything?

That video inspired me to make this, it seems appropriate that you should get first use:

madgonad: And since when do Americans need the FCC to babysit what contracts businesses offer. It isn't like Verizon is failing to disclose this. Oh yea, and the new higher ETF drops twice as fast as the old one.

You're mistating the terms. The early termination is over $100 more than the discount given for the phone, and cancelling at any time results in an ETF of over $100. It's not about recouping the cost of the phone, duh, it's about the lock-in effect.

Also, you're an idiot. The no-strings "price" of the phones is intentionally inflated as a justification for these terms. Companies know that there is such a thing as antitrust law, and they know they need a cover story that will at least fool the willfully stupid.