markie_farkie: A headline besmirching Lord Curtis' favorite brew is greenlit? Unpossible!

For a minute there I thought I went color blind.

I think Amstel, Breda and Orangeboom are enough to make up for Heineken, if it needed to be made up for.

+ ∞, subby.

Sadly, I don't like the soap-water known as Heiney. Hefe for the win!

Allow me to register my disdain for this particular brand of beer, and instead proclaim my approval of Pabst Blue Ribbon.

The ceremony of apology took place on Nov. 27 in front of the National Museum of the American Indian in lower Manhattan the day after Thanksgiving. It came 400 years after Henry Hudson and his crew killed several Indians as they sailed the Half Moon in 1609 up the river that bears his name.

Perhaps the natives were firing arrows at his boats? "Several" deaths and four centuries later? Get over it.

"Allow me to register my disdain for this particular brand of beer, and instead proclaim my approval of Pabst Blue Ribbon."

THIS +1

"I carry a little bit of the angst of what my ancestors did"

// Holy shiat - these are some funny mother-farkers. How 'far' back do you bear responsibility for the actions of your ancestors?

// All right - all right all ready. I'm sorry about the whole Cain thing!

// Abel was just a suck-up anyway.

And what about their ovens?

BackAssward: Heineken is way to sugary... Grolsh is better if you can get it before it goes skunky. Stella is always a safe bet the Devils piss. Kilkenny isn't bad.

The worst part was that they made the Indians pay for half the bullets.

Thanks, I guess.

Unless the apology comes from the people who did the wrongs, it's just empty words.

Arcanaloth: Unless the apology comes from the people who did the wrongs, it's just empty words.

I think that is going to be a problem ...

Said it before, and I will say it again. Who was responsible for killing and displacing Indians? Pretty much every nation in the world other than Native American ones. Almost nobodies hands are clean on this subject. The US government was not any more at fault than anyone else either.

Most people that came to live permanently in the US from the early 17th century through most of the 19th century were fleeing some form of persecution, natural disaster, famine, or were sold into slavery and then brought to the US against their will (including many from Africa and Asia that were captured by fellow Africans or Asians). Some just came because they heard they could get land for cheap or free. Either way, it wasn't the US government going out of their way to expand the nation, it was population pressure a/o the promise of the chance to make their own life on their own land that caused most of the displacement of indians. This lead to indians fighting back, the US government fighting them, and the killing and seizing of more Indian land. It quickly became a vicious circle, but the US government did mostly bargain in good faith in their efforts to settle land claims with the Indian tribes.

Actually Indians that followed the Europeans rules for claiming land ownership were often able to stay on the land. I am not saying this is a good thing, because they had to give up their culture and freedom, which wasn't right, but many did become fully integrated into "white" society, and many of our most famous early politicians and warriors even had some Indian blood in them as a result (as do many people today, though only very small amounts because of ongoing dilution).

The best Heineken I ever had was on a sidewalk cafe in Rotterdam. Anyone who doesn't like Heineken needs to try it in the Netherlands sometime. It might as well be a completely different product than what we have here.

I'm sorry you aren't as big of men as your forefathers, feeling you need to apologize for them improperly finishing the job.

Magua will now change grey hair to dutchman. He used to respect the dutchman. Now he respects them no longer for their seed has grown weak and should not be allowed to go forth upon the earth.

robobular: Anyone who doesn't like Heineken needs to try it in the Netherlands sometime

Nah, it's nicer in Holland.

arentol: Said it before, and I will say it again. Who was responsible for killing and displacing Indians? Pretty much every nation in the world other than Native American ones. Almost nobodies hands are clean on this subject. The US government was not any more at fault than anyone else either.

A lot of western European countries were not at all involved. Ireland was too busy fighting off the damned English. So I can feel smug about that. Also, before the Europeans started taking the land in the Americas, the different native tribes were doing the same thing to each other. The Indian tribes weren't exactly in a peaceful utopia before Europeans arrived.

Makes you wonder if there is a USA 400 years from now will they apologize for everything their doing and done for the past 50 years?

Trail of Tears.

American Halocaust.

Jackson +

arentol: Either way, it wasn't the US government going out of their way to expand the nation, it was population pressure a/o the promise of the chance to make their own life on their own land that caused most of the displacement of indians.

Yes this whole stealing the land and killing the natives was totally not the fault of the US government. The US was practically forced to do it. A victim of circumstances beyond their control. It was just a matter of much needed Lebensraum. You can't condem the US for that.

*sigh* Yeah go ahead and apologize for something you had nothing to do with, I'm sure that anyone who is still offended after a couple hundred years will suddenly feel all better now. How about we issue one giant STFU to everyone involved in this?

I apologize for calling cameroncrazy1984 a fag.

Loki-L: arentol: Either way, it wasn't the US government going out of their way to expand the nation, it was population pressure a/o the promise of the chance to make their own life on their own land that caused most of the displacement of indians.

Yes this whole stealing the land and killing the natives was totally not the fault of the US government. The US was practically forced to do it. A victim of circumstances beyond their control. It was just a matter of much needed Lebensraum. You can't condem the US for that.

The US government actually issued more than one law and sent out more than one army trying to get settlers to stop expanding. But people are idiots and greedy. To blame it all on an entity like "the government" misses the point. The individual people wanted it.

pippi longstocking: Makes you wonder if there is a USA 400 years from now will they apologize for everything their doing and done for the past 50 years?

Exactly THIS

I absolutely see 400 years from now people talking about us using fossil fuels, having detonated nuclear weapons, and reality TV. I think the primary factor you have to take into account before determining how terrible a people were/are is to take into account the "times". Now I certainly do not advance the notion of "everyone was doing it, so whatever", but I do think it needs to be included when people in the modern era lay blame on our ancestors.

Lurker Extraordinaire
Good looking and Modest, what a combo!

My spell checker died.

My spell checker killed Kenny.

Tylenol PM tab 2 wait 2 hours and who gives a shiatt - not me.

lotus: I think it's terrible, the fate of the Indians here in North America. I also think the fall of Rome to the Vandals was terrible. Are the descendants of the Vandals there apologizing to the roman descendants? Is this strictly an American phenomenon, and why?

Centurion: But! This cannot be! I ordered no pizza!

Pizza Delivery Woman: Well, someone has to pay for it! I walked ten miles with these, and I'm not leaving here until I'm paid!

Centurion: Ohhhh.. very well.. [ relunctanlt takes out his money ] ..but it does not seem fair! How could such a thing have happened?!

[ Pizza Delivery Woman takes the money and exits the scene ]

Lieutenant: Sir, I have a theory. Perhaps this is the work of the Vandals.

Centurion: But why would they do such a thing?

Lieutenant: To vex us, sir.

Centurion: Then, they shall not succeed! We shall hunt them down, and force them to pay for these pizzas!

lotus: Is this strictly an American phenomenon, and why?

No, it is not. I think the Dutch feel bad as well.

Personally I am proud my ancestors sailed the world kicking the hell out of native peoples.

Better them than us.

OZZ: Personally I am proud my ancestors sailed the world kicking the hell out of native peoples.

Better them than us.

You farkers raided my country! No, you really did (dual citizenship). And I don't seek any sort of an apology. Still waiting from one from England though...

Their real crime against humanity is carnival music.

uhm, Heineken aint bad at all...

-1

Why?

I demand reparations for my ancestors in Europe who were once conquered by some other country in Europe.

OZZ: Personally I am proud my ancestors sailed the world kicking the hell out of native peoples.

Better them than us.

At least you're an honest bastard.

pippi longstocking: Makes you wonder if there is a USA 400 years from now will they apologize for everything their doing and done for the past 50 years?

Reality TV?

arentol: The US government was not any more at fault than anyone else either.

FTFY But as a native I can tell you that I, personally, harbor no ill will. You, on the other hand, might want a good history book and *maybe* hope that the treaties aren't brought back up or (as I understand) a lot of what you eat might get a lot more pricey.

SeamusFerrell: So I can feel smug about that.

Umm... Not really unless you want to forget the blight in the 1840's that lead to a lot of Irish moving here and then the civil war and then the land grab after that which was, you know, when the most atrocities were committed. But if you want to be smug you go ahead but I'd suggest a history book instead.

It probably won't keep you as warm as "smug" will though. (I'm half Irish and half Native American but neither is a true half - I'm a mongrel.) You can pretty much ensure that if your ethnicity involves action in the American Civil War you're "people" are also involved in the wholesale slaughter of the native brown people. It's okay but if you're feeling smug you *might* want to reconsider that.

lotus: Is this strictly an American phenomenon, and why?

We were wealthy and they're inbred morons who bomb themselves into oblivion once every couple of generations. Don't take them to heart. The most amusing is that there are people actively involved in politics who cite them as a model and want to emulate them. Go figure.

To you and the rest... I can only speak for myself. I'm as native as you're probably going to get on Fark and I'm only about half. Most of *us* don't care in my experiences. We just want to live and let live and, you know, worry about the important shiat. I am not an American Indian scholar but I understand that if things got too improbably retarded there are a few treaties that people will be really pissed off about if they were decided in a world court that was truly unbiased. Seeing as such doesn't exist there's nothing to worry about though. I watched an interesting documentary on it (one of many really - I'm sort of documentary retarded/addicted) with Sam Donaldson (of all people) the other day. It was a few years old but a good watch. I can't recall the name but it was via netflix's online viewing if you want to watch it.

It was a shiatty time full of shiatty people. More than one agreement was broken by people from either side. Should the Jews of the current generation say sorry to the Germans for the people that they killed during WWII? To me it is as absurd as that idea. If people are truly offended then let's start by giving a review of the treaties in an unbiased world court.

Personally? I'd not benefit from anything in this area but I'd welcome the news and amusement factor. I understand that I have enough "proof" so that I could go live in either Maine (I already live here) or Canada and maybe get a bunch of free stuff from either government. Frankly I can afford it better than your government can but I speak only for myself. shiat happened, it sucked, move on.

SeamusFerrell: Still waiting from one from England though...

Please take a ticket. I've got no 1998088876.

Heineken in a can = good
Heineken in a bottle = bad
Heineken on tap = meh

I'm not sure why it tastes different or if it's just me.

BackAssward
"Heineken is way to sugary... Grolsh is better if you can get it before it goes skunky. Stella is always a safe bet. Kilkenny isn't bad."

Stella is always a safe bet, sure, if you're betting on drinking antifreeze.