Good, I hope copies of this study are shoved under the door of every anti-Cape Wind advocate...every day...for as long as it takes to bury them alive.

Sure, that gets around the NIMBY, but they still need to beware the BANANA.

Crosshair: Good. Now if we can just solve the problem of how do we store the wind energy for when it is actually needed.

Power storage isn't really a problem for wind sites. Power transportation is. Generally the best wind sites are served by shiat-tastic grid infrastructure. Here are some pretty maps; I've linked them because Fark thinks they're too big.

AWEA wind map

FEMA grid map

Modern grid management can absorb a huge amount of energy being provided by wind. New York State alone can absorb a thirdish of its energy needs supplied solely by wind. Modern grid management is really, really cool. A blended solution of nuke and coal gassification as your base producers, solar/geotherm/hydro/wind as your variable producers, and a few gas steam turbines lying around for spike spot production is really the best bet. But to place all of those optimally you need to be able to move energy around much more flexibly than we can with our midcentury era grid.

/can't share the white papers' math, NDA'd up the ass :(

Aarontology: Simetra: Personally, I think they're majestic...

I might be the only one.

Same here. I live on the shore, and I would love to see a bunch of them on the horizon. Cheap clean energy, lots of construction and maintenance jobs, tears of impotent yuppie NIMBY rage... what's not to love?

To be fair, moving blades around does dick up traffic during construction. :)

The Icelander: I'm all about the blended solutions, but it should be relative to where you live. There's no reason the Northwest, which has tons of hydroelectric dams, should be forced to build nuclear power plants. Just decrease hydro output when the wind is blowing and open the penstocks when the wind slows down.

And the Southwest? Why not use solar power rather than coal gasification, especially since the highest electricity demand is during hot, sunny days.

Certainly it should be tailored to specific areas. You'd be a damn fool plopping an industrial-scale solar plant in the Pacific Northwest, for example. :)

Heck, according to this article in Scientific American (^) we can power the entire world on a combination of renewable energy.

I should have specified that the studies I was looking at discussed goals reachable within 5-10 years. We can start planning out projects now with existing technology to make it all happen because we now have the math to back it up. Yes, turning off every grandfathered 1940's-era coal plant in five years would be great, but it's not really within the bounds of reality.

If you want to check out some neat stuff, look at municipal-level small-scale wind and solar installations. Here in NY we're using a LOT of solar-powered DOT signs now; I've seen some pictures of wind and solar powered street lamps from Tokyo as well. It's the smaller, widespread uses that really fascinate me culturally. Once such installs become mundane and commonplace I think we'll see some interesting shifts in usage and expectations.

Here's those streetlights that are already out in the field, btw:

http://www.remotehybridsystem.com/

With web design from 1995. :P

What I can't aint understand is how these goverment burocrats can sit there and tell me that installing outdoor ceiling fans on my here land will help get oil into my truck. You'd think they'd know these things TAKE energy to plug in and all- nevermind the wind problems they create by blowing the furniture and what not all around my property.

Now's the time to spread this video:

crashing windmill (new window)

I think they're pretty. Around my home town there are about 10 of them off in the distance. Spinning, spinning, spinning. They are really cool. The poster who said "majestic" is not alone.

RogerDodger: What I can't aint understand is how these goverment burocrats can sit there and tell me that installing outdoor ceiling fans on my here land will help get oil into my truck. You'd think they'd know these things TAKE energy to plug in and all- nevermind the wind problems they create by blowing the furniture and what not all around my property.



/obligatory
/hot

approves from the grave

me texan: I'm a firm believer that we need to be doing this.. and the US is really missing the boat to developing the leading industrial market / supplier on this one.. we need to stop clinging to fossil fuels and move to sustainable energy.

Judging from your login, surely you know that Texas leads the nation in wind power generation. Ironically enough, not counting offshore, Texas lead the nation in crude oil production in 2008 as well.

/don't call me Shirley.

The Kennedy family, the residents of Nantucket, Martha's vineyard and Cape Cod will be happy to hear this.

*led

As an anti-wind NIMBY, I disagree with the DoE study. I'd have never bought my property if I been able to see into the future and seen them trying to put 450' high turbines on the ridge above me.

It's not just the turbines themselves, it's the construction process and transmission line.

Are windmills efficient in terms of resources put into construction and maintenance vs. productivity?

That's the only metric I give a crap about.

I'm an anti-wind NIMBY because it makes everything seem really cold in the winter.

Cheops: Are windmills efficient in terms of resources put into construction and maintenance vs. productivity?

That's the only metric I give a crap about.

I know someone who put one up on their farm. It cost about $30,000 dollars, with a projected full return on their investment after about 20 years. So not really that great, but you get a check from the power company every month (instead of a bill). And it helped them greatly when the oil was at record prices not too long ago.

Geologist: if I been able to see into the future

I'd have done something more interesting with my life with regards to real estate if I could see the future.

So if I understand this correctly...a study, comissioned by the DOE proved their own point?

A goverment report commissioned by the goverment supports the government's point of view?

WOW! That's amazing.

I don't have problem with wind farms though.

My only fear, should there ever be a wind turbine in MBY:
...and since I'm considered an jackass today, anyway. :(

/nobody understands the power of the bigger picture!!
//I still wouldn't mind a wind turbine.

"Anti-wind NIMBYs suffer hit as new Department of Energy study finds wind farms have no impact on property values"

They have no effect on electricity generation for two thirds of the time either.

So they're not much good except as a niche generator, until we all have great big storage batteries in our homes.

/ Vote for me.

Geologist: As an anti-wind NIMBY, I disagree with the DoE study. I'd have never bought my property if I been able to see into the future and seen them trying to put 450' high turbines on the ridge above me.

It's not just the turbines themselves, it's the construction process and transmission line.

That hardly means that there aren't plenty of other buyers who wouldn't give two shiats about the windmills.

Home owners associations are supposed to improve property values too, but I'll never buy a home in one.

Ah... wind farms again...grumble grumble...

The Icelander: soze: A blended solution of nuke and coal gassification as your base producers, solar/geotherm/hydro/wind as your variable producers, and a few gas steam turbines lying around for spike spot production is really the best bet.

I'm all about the blended solutions, but it should be relative to where you live. There's no reason the Northwest, which has tons of hydroelectric dams, should be forced to build nuclear power plants. Just decrease hydro output when the wind is blowing and open the penstocks when the wind slows down.

And the Southwest? Why not use solar power rather than coal gasification, especially since the highest electricity demand is during hot, sunny days.

Heck, according to this article in Scientific American (^) we can power the entire world on a combination of renewable energy.

I agree with you here. But I would add that I think we need to be encouraging small scale production too. By this I mean people putting up their own small scale renewable energy systems that can handle a portion of their own load. Then they can still use the grid as a base, and backfeed their excess into it. Maybe even have some batteries in there for backup.

This happens already, but increasing the number of small systems will put less load on the grid as a whole, and make things more reliable. Plus, with some battery backup things become less hopeless in the event of a large-scale power failure. Basically, there is a lot of roof space that could be put to better use.

/Solar nerd.
//Working to one day take part of my home off the grid.
///Someday hoping to not pay an electric bill at all.

Next thing you know they'll be telling me they can get power from flung monkey poo.
And I ask- do we need herds of wild monkeys roaming this great country fully unregulated and possibly slightly dehydrated looking for innossent Americans who are just trying to pay their taxes to the church and all but NO instead they gotta dodge and duck this damn new monkey poo energy rage all these folks are going on about and WHAM next thing you know a fresh gibbon turd smacks you in the temple just as you sit down to enjoy your grits.
You can have your radioactive ceiling fans and your rabid bonobos. I'll take the original unamended constitution the way our founding father's fathers wanted it and my Skoal and that's all the renewable energy I needs right there.

linuxpyro: This happens already, but increasing the number of small systems will put less load on the grid as a whole, and make things more reliable. Plus, with some battery backup things become less hopeless in the event of a large-scale power failure. Basically, there is a lot of roof space that could be put to better use.

But wouldn't that require people to, like, read books and sh*t and figure out how to do smart stuff? 'Cause that would be totally gay.

whidbey: Ah... wind farms again...grumble grumble...

Noting that I've got you tagged as a Firesign fan made that post hilarious.

/cool story bro

/Voting?

I agree, they are pretty.

They have a great streamline quality to them, and they just look like "progress" if it can be described as such.

I'm not saying put them in the middle of Yellowstone or on top of Mt McKinley, buy there is plenty of farmland and empty terrain that would be improved with such things. Hell, put them along existing highway and interstate infrastructure. It will make service easy, and its not like you can "ruin" the beauty of 99% of most highways.


Then again, i dont have a house on Cape Cod.

They're a Elders in the Religion of Scientific Intolerance (tm)

the_be_sharps: But wouldn't that require people to, like, read books and sh*t and figure out how to do smart stuff? 'Cause that would be totally gay.

Yeah, at first some people would. But chances are you have a water heater in your basement too, that you don't bother with too much. Over time as more people latch onto the idea of their own power system perhaps they would become more turnkey. Not that it should be too dumbed down, but these days not everyone has to be an electrical engineer to figure it out. Though I am an electrical engineer (well, a student), so who knows.

JesseL: I've got you tagged as a Firesign fan

I'm honored. And impressed. Firing off a FST reference is always a shot in the dark...:)

They're fashionable now, but I'm betting that once they become ubiquitous they'll be considered eyesores even if they look nice.

Ok, so there are roughly 75,000 km of highways in the US. Factor in that saw, for example, 25% of them wont be buildable (in a city, side of a cliff), and 25% that they have some kind of redeeming quality (through a national park, along the seaside in California), that leaves tens of thousands of relatively unsightly highway corridors in the US that these things can be propped up along.

Easy service and installation access. It wont hurt any great views, and it wont lower the property values to people nearby that the highway hasn't already taken away.

Thwack: So if I understand this correctly...a study, comissioned by the DOE proved their own point?

A goverment report commissioned by the goverment supports the government's point of view?

WOW! That's amazing.


This.