Generally speaking, mental illness is legitimately Serious Business. However, I grow irritated with this recent trickle of trivial claims. It's rather tough to fake missing a leg (for example), which is why most of these shameless pet owners exaggerate what can't readily be disproved. Here, the truth:

Keith and Leslie Rouble [...] said the incident wasn't about the dog.

Allarie had been yelling and swearing, demanding service, Leslie Rouble told the tribunal Tuesday.

"We never mentioned the dog at all," she said. "It was his vulgar, violent, assaultive behaviour."

Why are so many owners of small dogs such assholes? Do they decide to hunt for a "toy" pet that's as annoying as they are?

I am generally in sympathy with people who have mental illnesses and recognize that animals fill a vital need for these people. I do wonder that they are necessary to enter a store, but I withhold judgment there and am willing to be open-minded and assume the man is so fragile he cannot even run to his local bulk foods without canine support.

What I cannot forgive is naming the dog 'Dee-o-Gee'.

The f*ck, dude? Was that really the best you could do? Poor dog. That's borderline inhumane treatment right there.

EverWatcher: Here, the truth:

Sounds like there was a history and that the owner of the dog was carrying him and thus getting him near the foods. Something doesn't quite jive with the store owners' story, either; they say they never mentioned the dog at all and yet the dog is their reason for them not allowing him in the store (as they said)? I think both parties likely caused this situation to get completely out of hand.

It's totally ridiculous; one of them sold their business because of the other? Are they serious? If he was bothering them, then they should have involved the authorities. If they sold their business just because they don't want to let a guy with a chihuahua in their store because he has a legal right to bring it in, I'm going to have to ask how old these people are. That's absurd. And as for him, he shouldn't be provoking them like that; his behaviour isn't any better. All due respect to mental illnesses and stressful businesses, but all of them need to grow the f*ck up.

Okay, fine, if the guy's depressed, great. Come back out and greet your happy little wingless-gargoyle in fifteen minutes, when you're done with your shopping. It's not like a service animal that a blind man needs to merely navigate - it's something that makes him feel better. Yes, that's probably important, but seriously, he can't set it down for five, ten, or fifteen minutes? It's not performing CPR on him, it's there as simple companionship. Keeeee-rist.

Who could blame him.

Those little buggers are hilarious. Midgets of the dog world.

Dogs around food that other people whom might be allergic to pet dander
/Slippery slope here

Get a cat, dogs should be food any ways.

drjekel_mrhyde: Dogs around food that other people whom might be allergic to pet dander

Want to try that one again?

As I listen to my boxer, Cromwell, snore in the other room, I can't help but wish he and said chihuahua would me one day. And, Cromwell would fark the chihuahua to death.

/sorry...in a violent mood this morning

If you don't like this dog's use as a service dog, change the laws, don't break them.

/but change them soon please. Dogs on food? No thanks.

I'm not gonna buy him a beer, dude! I'm not going to rent him shoes!

would "meet" one day...not "me"

sheez.

Listen, I know that mental illness is not something to be taken lightly. It sucks and can be debilitating. However, if you can't leave your house without your precious Fluffy because the big, bad world is just too scary, then perhaps you shouldn't go outside. Your disease is NOT under control and you need serious help.

Dee-o-Gee? Yep, the guy is seriously mentally deficient. Case closed.

"We never mentioned the dog at all," she said. "It was his vulgar, violent, assaultive behaviour."
Or we could READ the article...
" the two sides had had an earlier conflict in 2006, when Allaire came in with Dee-o-Gee on a retractable leash and allowed the dog to sniff food items."
Yeah, so get sued for discrimination, or shut down by health services. Nice position to be in, the guys an asshat.

Depression/anxiety? There are pills for that. Leave the yip-dog at home.

Dee-o-gee?! DIAF

hockeychick: Listen, I know that mental illness is not something to be taken lightly. It sucks and can be debilitating. However, if you can't leave your house without your precious Fluffy because the big, bad world is just too scary, then perhaps you shouldn't go outside. Your disease is NOT under control and you need serious help.

Yeah, see, would you rather that some guy who lives alone with no relatives or friends pays for pet food every month, or would you rather he needs state assistance to send someone out and buy his food for him?

Their property, their decision.

Personally, I can't think of a dog that would make me feel worse than a chihuahua. Shivery, pop-eyed, dome-headed little freaks. They creep me out. Dude sounds are-ee-tee-ay-are-dee-ee-dee.

I'd be pretty depressed if my doctor told me my ailment required a service animal, and then trotted in a fricking hairless rat.

Schmee: I'd be pretty depressed if my doctor told me my ailment required a service animal, and then trotted in a fricking hairless rat.

The pizza joint up the street still won't let me bring in my service scorpion.

Why does the little rat have a muzzle on? Do you mean to tell me the little rodent bites, too? On top of being a complete waste of life?
Owner and animal need to be eliminated from this planet.

simply a case of the doctor pencil whipping the note to get the asshat out of his office. so now this asshat with [cough cough bullshiate] anxiety and depression issues can make himself a attention whore. why would people really suffering with this want to draw attention and more anxiety to themselves?

If your "severe" mental disorder requires you to carry around a yapping piece of shiat you should probably just slit you wrists.

And really, your dog's name is "Dee-o-Gee?" I bet every time this asshat meets somebody he tells them the name, then follows it up by "Get it? HAHA that is funny right!"

It has begun.

At this rate, we'll see animals with voting rights in about 5 years.

Your dog no longer wants steak. It wants a mortgage loan on a new house and to chair your local HOA board.

Xanlexian: Whatever happened to posting a sign, "we reserve the right to refuse service to any person for any reason"? I don't know jack about seeing-eye-dogs -- but I can sure as hell identify them. The bright red/orange vest, the bracket the human holds on to, extremely pleasant demeanor of the dog -- if your animal doesn't fit this description -- it's just a pet. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody. No pets allowed."

Sadly, the damn discrimination and service animal laws mean people DON'T necessarily have the right to refuse to serve anyone anymore.

That said, I've been treated for severe and chronic depression myself. If you can't manage a trip to go food shopping without your ugly-ass rat, then your illness is not appropriately controlled. It's not like I try to carry my ferret into Albertson's, FFS.

Earpj: I have a chihuahua. I can vouch for their ability to ward off depression.

yes, ecspecially when you put little booties on their feet and watch em dance about. endless hours of fun (therapy)

I bet if his jittery rat took a piss in the store it would cure a lot of depression.

So I'm guessing that after most of the people that think this guy is a grade A asshat, are done with him, that the resulting chihuahua suppository just isnt gonna be as therapeutic as it was in the beginning. Wow, now that would just be such a terrible, terrible thing.


....And you wonder why people with actual real problems are given a hard time occasionally.

Bass O Matic: It has begun.

At this rate, we'll see animals with voting rights in about 5 years.

Your dog no longer wants steak. It wants a mortgage loan on a new house and to chair your local HOA board.

In all fairness, in about 20 years, the average dog will be more intelligent than the average American.

2wolves: I take a hive of bees with me where ever I go to ward off feelings of honeylessnes.


That's so sweet.

buckler: Shivery, pop-eyed, dome-headed little freaks.

LOL

Is there a service animal to assist with being an entitled prick?

I'm allergic to dogs and I don't particularly care if this tool is "depressed" for the 15 minutes he's away from his dog. I hope someone shoves Dee-o-Gee up his ass.

mmm... pancake: Is there a service animal to assist with being an entitled prick?


I think that's called a wife.

Fun fact: Chihuahuas were originally bred for food. They were perfect for spit roasting.

buckler: Schmee: I'd be pretty depressed if my doctor told me my ailment required a service animal, and then trotted in a fricking hairless rat.

The pizza joint up the street still won't let me bring in my service scorpion.

Really? They seem to be pretty accepting of my service sloth

Someone here deserves a swift kick in the ass, and for a change it's actually NOT the chihuahua.

What. A farking. Douche bag. Is it just me, or can you imagine beating the living shiat out of this prissy little arsewipe over something like this?

kerfuffle

/that is all

My new term is "douche canoe" and this guy fits it perfectly.

SwallowTheKnife: buckler: Schmee: I'd be pretty depressed if my doctor told me my ailment required a service animal, and then trotted in a fricking hairless rat.

The pizza joint up the street still won't let me bring in my service scorpion.

Really? They seem to be pretty accepting of my service sloth

I tried to convince them that the scorpion was actually a loris, but they weren't having any of it.

Grown men with rat dogs are ghey
/I feel sorry for the normal ghey people whom have to put up with these asshats in their community
//Yes Mickey Rourke is ghey

SecretAgentWoman: I feel sorry for the dog more than the owner. And do they really need to muzzle a 5 lb dog?

Yes they absolutley have to muzzle it. Chihuahuas are jealous little a-holes. They will not bite you but they will bite your friends. They may be small but they also have really sharp teeth. I'd trust a 100 lb golden retiever without a muzzle more then I'd trust a 5 lb chihuahua with one.

//they're evil.
//they have beady little eyes
//used to have one

You treat a man's depression by assigning him a dog that clearly states to his surroundings that he in fact has teh ghey?

Way to go, world of psychiatry!

Xanlexian: Whatever happened to posting a sign, "we reserve the right to refuse service to any person for any reason"? I don't know jack about seeing-eye-dogs -- but I can sure as hell identify them. The bright red/orange vest, the bracket the human holds on to, extremely pleasant demeanor of the dog -- if your animal doesn't fit this description -- it's just a pet. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody. No pets allowed."

nobody lost the right to refuse service. How you say it matters, though. If you say "sir, I have to ask you to leave", that's your right to refuse service.

2wolves: I take a hive of bees with me where ever I go to ward off feelings of honeylessnes.

My motivator bear just got his hive registered.

Xanlexian: Whatever happened to posting a sign, "we reserve the right to refuse service to any person for any reason"? I don't know jack about seeing-eye-dogs -- but I can sure as hell identify them. The bright red/orange vest, the bracket the human holds on to, extremely pleasant demeanor of the dog -- if your animal doesn't fit this description -- it's just a pet. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody. No pets allowed."

You can't refuse people with "service animals" for the same reason you can't refuse to serve black people, hispanic people, women, or people of a particular faith.

Whether or not you agree with the law that requires public establishments to service protected groups the same as the majority is up to you. I personally would rather have those laws in place to protect people from bigotry and have a small number of incidents like this man with his service dog.

That and the way people view mental illness is a topic I could rant on all day. In short - you can't see mental illness the way you can see an amputated leg as someone above said. That being the case you are far more likely to dismiss someone who is legitimately debilitated telling them to just "toughen up" and "get over it," but you wouldn't tell an amputee to just go "walk it off," and similarly people with mental illnesses can't just "be happy" and get back to normal if they want for it hard enough. Unfortunately I'm quite jaded and think most people won't realize this or even become sensitive to the subject until they, themselves, or someone close to them has suffered a mental illness.

Gotta love the Fark armchair psychiatrists. Who are you people to say if the man is depressed or not, and who are you to say that this is isn't a real service animal? That is between the man and his doctor, and if he has a note stating that it is a service animal then he has every right to bring it into the store with him. It's the law.

tothekor: My new term is "douche canoe" and this guy fits it perfectly.

You misspelled "canuck" there.

i work fior an airline in the US and the ADA has complicated this mess almost uncontrollably. Many dog show participants found the loophole and their show dogs instantly became service animals to avoid the checked pet fees. an airplane full of rotweilers and collies and mastiffs for "emotional support" or "fear of flying" is bullshait.

rcdl: Gotta love the Fark armchair psychiatrists. Who are you people to say if the man is depressed or not, and who are you to say that this is isn't a real service animal? That is between the man and his doctor, and if he has a note stating that it is a service animal then he has every right to bring it into the store with him. It's the law.

What service animal needs a muzzle around others?

Some lady brought in a near death white fluffy pomeranain into the restaurant I work at saying it was a service dog used to detect seizures. Yeah right.

While the notion sound ridic, I do know someone who has a chihuahua. And now it totally makes sense.

Well, I'll tell ya, there are gonna have to be some pretty big changes made around here. I mean exactly how the hell do people expect me and my service giraffe to get around once he gets here. And everyone knows that by law business's have to be capable of serving the handicap. See I'm vertically paranoid, I think I'm just way to tall, so thats why I need the giraffe.


This is the level of stoopid this all is heading towards.

drjekel_mrhyde: rcdl: Gotta love the Fark armchair psychiatrists. Who are you people to say if the man is depressed or not, and who are you to say that this is isn't a real service animal? That is between the man and his doctor, and if he has a note stating that it is a service animal then he has every right to bring it into the store with him. It's the law.

What service animal needs a muzzle around others?

One that meets all applicable criteria set out by the state?

Service animals can be more than just the highly trained seeing-eye-dogs. Which seems to be the point of all the outrage - that the applicable criteria are so loose that the animal's efficacy is irrelevant.

Yes, human rights violation. This is right up there with Burmese forced labour camps, Danfur conflict, women getting publicly whipped for wearing trousers or stoned for getting raped, etc etc etc. What a pussy. Someone cockpunch him please?

The problem is that this is the Canadian Human Rights Commission.
The appointed asshats are scarier and more fanatical than the Spanish Inquistion.

Ugh. I had a boss who tried to claim her dog had to come to work with her because it suffered from "separation anxiety" when she was the real basket case. No note, no medical backup, just took advantage of the owner of the place. The dog was well behaved but you spend the whole day moving this animal (St Bernard) in and out of the store so guests can get around and making sure she has water outside and in and you get the picture. D as we'll call her spent about 6hrs a day farking with the dog and 2hrs a day actually working. And of course she was the shiatty boss that made a great job crappy.
The other is a Prof friend of that wife of mine's. Older vegan, full libtard, and unfortunately had uber rich parents that just meded her up since she was 15 to the point where she is a hypochondriac now. She has a wonderful vicious circle going where she has tons of money and people willing to take it from her and tell her her complaints are valid. Anyway her "service dog" is a papillion that has a wire loose and is very protective to the point where it has bitten 3 people. Thankfully she has money to bail herself out of these problems. She did get the pooch upgraded to full service dog by a loophole of taking it to the hospital for three weeks prior as one of the "cheer up" dogs.
She legitimately does do better with the dog around, but it causes interruptions (she takes it to the bathroom during class) and it barks at squirrels sometimes. NUMEROUS student reviews have complained about the disruptive nature, but you think the Uni is gonna confront her???
Then she moved to Frisco to write a book she has been working on for a decade under a full fellowship (even though she has millionS) so some other kid has to pull double-duty at the Starbucks to make it. Anyhoo, they like her type out there and she seems to have found a place with as many afflicted weirdos as she could ever want lol.

/Guy from story is an abusive, egotistical asshole.

What do you mean me and my therepay dingo aren't welcome at baby gap? To hell with you I say!!

//files lawsuit agianst baby gap
//hires lawyer, damn dingo just ate another baby

Service animals should have to go through rigorous training. This would ensure that they are well behaved. It would also keep frivolous people from making their dogs service animals.

Our dog could detect when my husband's blood sugar was low and alerted me several times when he (husband, not the dog) was hypoglycemic. We didn't drag the dog around with us, though, since he could easily be replaced by a free meter.

According to Joanne Moss, president of the Canadian Foundation for Animal Assisted Support Services, there are no guidelines to determine who is in need of a service dog and what constitutes a service animal for people with psychiatric disabilities. All that is needed is a doctor's note.

So the law is vague ... gee that's a surprise.

/guy is an asshole

As a former resident of the Great White North,
I join them in welcoming our Yappy, Six-Pound Overlords!

drjekel_mrhyde: What service animal needs a muzzle around others?

Exactly. Service animals are trained not to bite. The douchebag owner of this dog is full of shiat. I have to wonder if the doctors note is legit or if it's something he made up on his home pc.

Another thing, I have known a couple of people with service dogs. When the dog is working, it wears a vest. Those vests have pockets with a service animal accreditation card and usually a letter from a vet showing the animal has all it's shots just in case. Laws may be different in other parts of the country, but this guy should still be able to produce a card showing the dog has been trained as a service animal.

This filthy monkey made the orange juice you're drinking!

Whatthefark: Another thing, I have known a couple of people with service dogs. When the dog is working, it wears a vest. Those vests have pockets with a service animal accreditation card and usually a letter from a vet showing the animal has all it's shots just in case. Laws may be different in other parts of the country, but this guy should still be able to produce a card showing the dog has been trained as a service animal.

Good job on RTFA.

If asshats continue to abuse laws written to help those in real need, the people will start to ignore such laws and treat all those in need with contempt.
I've known REAL service dogs (Seeing Eye and Seizure Sensing) and feel that we need to do as much as possible to shame and abuse these bastards that fool the system into thinking that their 'depression doggie' is the same thing.
Scolding and shaming by the other customers is the best way to handle this sort of thing. Call them out on their asshattery and save the store owners the legal issues. Most of these people can't handle ANY confrontation with someone who stands their ground and has no laws dictating/enforcing their conduct. The clerks have to accomodate them for legal resons, you don't.
(Always be kind to those with REAL service animals, they have a hard enough row to ho as it is)

First time I've ever seen a Chihuahua with a muzzle. Kinda funny. I think it'd cure my depression to see a Chihuahua attacking something. They're the most frail ridiculous little creatures. Less like a dog and more like some kind of... little... glass demon...

Subby, you owe me a keyboard, you magnificent bastard.

Pillow Biter, Pocket Dog, Entitlement Complex.

Verdict: Exterminatus.

Gramma
Service animals should have to go through rigorous training. This would ensure that they are well behaved. It would also keep frivolous people from making their dogs service animals.


Actually real certified service animals DO have to go through all of that training, for exactly the reason you stated. The result of this is that the number of dogs that fail becoming service dogs far outnumbers those that actually do make it (to give you an idea of the training involved).

The simple fact is that an untrained service animal, if allowed to operate, has the potential to cause a huge amount of damage and trouble.....which would instead of benefiting and helping someone disabled, would actual cause even further and more complex problems. One of the very basic reasons why all animals used as service animals should be certified.

brigid_fitch: If it's a service dog, where's its jacket? I'm sure Canada identifies certified service dog like the United States does. A friend has a Blue Heeler that she trained as a therapy dog & had her certified and even *she* has a little jacket she wears when "on duty".

Interesting; most service dog vests that I've seen have told people not to pet the dog. Usually something along the lines of "Please don't pet me; I'm working" or similar. I've never seen one that suggests the opposite.

Service animals are a wonderful tool for those who truly need them, but I do not think it's unreasonable to require an owner to present the animal's credentials. Vests have pockets for this very reason.

I wish someone would kick that guy in the head until he leaks all over the sidewalk. Just looking at his giant egg head makes you want to break it.

These people are literally selling their store to get away from this psychotic asshole, and who would blame them? But if the courts decide they owe him compensation, that would blow my mind. They were trying to protect their license to sell food by keeping an animal out of their store. Plus they have full discretion who is allowed in their store- if they say he was being an abusive asshole, that's all they need.

Sad that somebody would let this get to the level of the courts.

Dopgang: I've known REAL service dogs (Seeing Eye and Seizure Sensing) and feel that we need to do as much as possible to shame and abuse these bastards that fool the system into thinking that their 'depression doggie' is the same thing.
Scolding and shaming by the other customers is the best way to handle this sort of thing. Call them out on their asshattery and save the store owners the legal issues. Most of these people can't handle ANY confrontation with someone who stands their ground and has no laws dictating/enforcing their conduct. The clerks have to accomodate them for legal resons, you don't.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, you want to shame folks for a legitimate medical condition, by telling them that the medically proven treatment that their doctor has proscribed for them (in many cases in addition to other treatments) is just some sort of bullshiat made up thing? I'll be sure to look for your protests outside of physical therapy clinics, and other non-traditional treatment centers, since that just some made up bullshiat as well, right, since you are opposed to all forms of healing that don't involve pills or surgery? I mean, since you and every other asshole who hasn't got a farking clue about mental illness seems happy to spout off whatever sort of voodoo horseshiat you think fits the situation, I figure I can attribute what the hell I want to you and your views. I'm guessing you are against pain meds as well, since that would just be some sort of artificial crutch? Maybe you do feel that folks should just be able to get over amputation of a limb, or diabetes, and I'm just not giving you enough credit...

StarBob: First time I've ever seen a Chihuahua with a muzzle. Kinda funny. I think it'd cure my depression to see a Chihuahua attacking something. They're the most frail ridiculous little creatures. Less like a dog and more like some kind of... little... glass demon...

I like to think of them more as "punting practice".

I don't like dogs in general, but I can regard some as acceptable and not an affront to humanity. None of these are little half-pound retards that will bark at anything for no reason.

Chihuahuas are noisy aggressive little assholes with all the bravery of a French infantryman to back up all the barking.

brigid_fitch: If it's a service dog, where's its jacket? I'm sure Canada identifies certified service dog like the United States does.

Oddly, I don't think we have an identifying marker for our service animals. The only time I've seen something like this jacket was for an animal being trained to be a seeing eye dog.

It doesn't matter if the guy was legitamately depressed or not. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't service animals have to be registered and/or wear some sort of identification letting people know as such?

Otherwise I could just drag my german shepheard around whereever I go and just claim he's there to help my depression.

SecretAgentWoman: I feel sorry for the dog more than the owner. And do they really need to muzzle a 5 lb dog?

Yes, Chihuahuas are known biters, and should be kicked at every opportunity. The guy looks like an asshole too.

ESA's (emotional support animals) are not service dogs. They don't get the same rights as services animals, i.e. they can be denied access to any place public or private. I've been doing a load of research as I'm working on getting my dog ESA classification for my wife. They are recognized by the ADA and the Fair Housing Amendment act so you can request a landlord to have one if they have a no pet policy you just need a doctors note or prescription.

This guy is just a douche, and I doubt that yappy little shait dog can provide any kind of real emotional support.

/hates small yappy shait hounds
//loves my golden though

brigid_fitch: If it's a service dog, where's its jacket? I'm sure Canada identifies certified service dog like the United States does. A friend has a Blue Heeler that she trained as a therapy dog & had her certified and even *she* has a little jacket she wears when "on duty".

I didn't see a full size photo of the dog, so I can't discard the idea that perhaps it does have one.

shipofthesun:
You've got me all wrong, REAL people with REAL problems should be helped and accomodated as much as possible, Asshats like the one in TFA should be scolded like the errant children they are acting like.

If you can't tell the difference, than perhaps you need a service gerbil...

(Mental problems are often the most serious illness a family can face, if you've never seen REAL mental illnesses, it will scare the shiat out of you when they manifest in someone you care about.)

My uncle's mutt will come in from outside just to take a crap on the carpet, that is no exaggeration it does exactly that. When I complained my uncle said, "Well how many of your dogs crap on the floor?", I answered none! This rather ugly mutt has a hip injury and has a bad gimp. My uncle often takes this crippled up mutt into places that serve food and makes a bogus claim that the dog is in training to be a service dog. I put up with my uncle for a year and a half when he showed up and frequented my place taking advantage of my generally good nature. He continually was a deceitful asshat and intentionally caused strife so he is no longer allow him on my property. Of course he claims he is just a victim and I treated him unfairly, boo farking hoo.
People like him that just play the system for their own selfish reasons need to be prosecuted.
Depression can be treated with a pill which allows the person the ability to correct the problem without any other aid. I see no reason that a so call service dog should be allowed in any business for a non life threating problem that is treatable before entering any business by simply swallowing a pill.
I fully support seeing eye dogs being used anywhere that is not akin to a sensitive clean room. Other service type dogs, like hearing and for diabetics, I support as allowable in a business like a motel or hotel because of the home away from home environment, but not in a food related setting.
I don't support lop eared rabbits use as a service animal used to allow a pedophile to better solicit children or any other bullshat usage people dream up.

Cornwell:
I like to think of them more as "punting practice".


I call them three-point dogs. Good for practising field goals.

Curious: Earguy: For instance, you can spend a few bucks and get your dog a certification as a service dog. Link

from that link : With your registration and certification you will recieve a Personalized PVC ID Tag, a Certificate of Compliance, and a Colorful Iron-On Patch for your service dog. Additional patches available on request.

not sure just how one irons on a service patch to a dog but it sounds painful.

This made me giggle

The ADA page on service animals:

Businesses may ask if an animal is a service animal or ask what tasks the animal has been trained to perform, but cannot require special ID cards for the animal or ask about the person's disability.

and...

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the animal is out of control and the animal's owner does not take effective action to control it (for example, a dog that barks repeatedly during a movie) or (2) the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.

In the U.S., "certification" for a service animal is not required. Thus, dogs don't require vests.

Also, under the ADA description, it can be any animal, dot or not.

Here's the bottom line: if you ask someone that is in your place of business if the animal they have with them is a pet, and they say "Yes," throw 'em out. If they say "This is a service animal," then there is nothing you can do (unless there's some sort of violation of point two above), even if they don't have an ID card or proof of certification, even if it's some weird-ass exotic animal.

It's wacky, but there it is.

A friend of mine has severe anxiety and PTSD due to an assault she suffered. She struggles going out at night or anytime alone and has panic attacks if she's around strange men. Its a real, debilitating issue for her.

Her doctor recommended a service dog, something to give her comfort and security while she's out and that is trained to sense her panic attacks. The dog has been a miracle for her, he's a trained golden retriever, he is kept on a special leash and wears a jacket identifying that he's a service dog.

Unlike the dog in this story he's trained to stay near her, not to sniff at things or wander. He's also trained to be quiet and attentive.

And she still grief from people when she tries to bring him places. I've seen it myself, the insinuations that because she doesn't look disabled she doesn't need the dog. I've also seen these outbursts from people start a panic attack.

I was also with her when a woman with her pet dog asked where she could get one of the jackets so she could pass her yappy dog off as a service dog. People do abuse this, but really don't give grief to people with service dogs who don't appear disabled. Anxiety and PTSD ruins peoples lives, these types of service dogs can give people a new lease on life.

If you really want to have fun with these fakes, let your children loose on them in a public place. Especially if you can get a whole herd to ask about a gazillion questions, rapid fire. People with real service animals love to talk about how long they waited, how much the animal was trained, etc. The fakes that can't produce the facts, documents, details, etc. get freaked out and leave.

Why, yes, I have witnessed this once. I was a parent assistant on a field trip. Unfortunately for this one faker, a teacher in the school had a real service animal training program, and used the school setting for some of the training. So, all the kids rushed this person, and they bolted for the exit. It was a magic moment!

I know, cool story

I used to work in the mental illness field. Anytime a client said they wanted a pet (and their apartments wouldn't allow it), the doc would just say, "Oh, you're mentally ill, let me sign a service animal document and then they'll have to let you have a pet."

That was easy.

cherryl taggart: If you really want to have fun with these fakes, let your children loose on them in a public place. Especially if you can get a whole herd to ask about a gazillion questions, rapid fire. People with real service animals love to talk about how long they waited, how much the animal was trained, etc. The fakes that can't produce the facts, documents, details, etc. get freaked out and leave.

Why, yes, I have witnessed this once. I was a parent assistant on a field trip. Unfortunately for this one faker, a teacher in the school had a real service animal training program, and used the school setting for some of the training. So, all the kids rushed this person, and they bolted for the exit. It was a magic moment!

I know, cool story

Maybe they bolted to get away from all those kids.

Why doesn't anyone just blind him? Then he can get a really recognizable working dog that no one will ever deny.

Would it be legal to hang a sign in your shop saying that depressed people aren't aloud? I could use that sign in my office with all the grumpy biatches in here.

poteet: This filthy monkey made the orange juice you're drinking!

Over 100 posts and this is the first Simpson's reference.

What a service animal might look like:



Seriously though, pray for Mojo.

Talon 2009-12-02 09:17:00 AM

Xanlexian: Whatever happened to posting a sign, "we reserve the right to refuse service to any person for any reason"? I don't know jack about seeing-eye-dogs -- but I can sure as hell identify them. The bright red/orange vest, the bracket the human holds on to, extremely pleasant demeanor of the dog -- if your animal doesn't fit this description -- it's just a pet. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody. No pets allowed."

You can't refuse people with "service animals" for the same reason you can't refuse to serve black people, hispanic people, women, or people of a particular faith.

Whether or not you agree with the law that requires public establishments to service protected groups the same as the majority is up to you. I personally would rather have those laws in place to protect people from bigotry and have a small number of incidents like this man with his service dog.

That and the way people view mental illness is a topic I could rant on all day. In short - you can't see mental illness the way you can see an amputated leg as someone above said. That being the case you are far more likely to dismiss someone who is legitimately debilitated telling them to just "toughen up" and "get over it," but you wouldn't tell an amputee to just go "walk it off," and similarly people with mental illnesses can't just "be happy" and get back to normal if they want for it hard enough. Unfortunately I'm quite jaded and think most people won't realize this or even become sensitive to the subject until they, themselves, or someone close to them has suffered a mental illness.


Sorry, it's not the same thing.
No amount of will or mindpower will cause broken bones to heal right away.
However, it is in the realm of the possible to adjust your attitude or attempt to react to your feelings in a different way.
We're all WAY too sensitive to the subject, already.

Recently, my boyfriend and I had the misfortune of dealing with a poorly trained "service" dog at a nice japanese restaurant. I had noticed outside a wheelchair bound man with a cropped and docked doberman wearing a cheap ass sevice cape. I commented to the BF about it, and on we went. Inside the restaurant, the dog nearly ran into the kitchen. The man had to roll over and retrieve the dog, because it wouldn't come when called. After that, the staff and other diners were understandably annoyed. Throughout the rest of our dinner, the dog wandered, unleashed, around the owners table, repeatedly ignoring commands to lie down, before finally deciding to comply by lying down in the middle of the aisle. The dog obviously wasn't trained as a service animal. I guess anyone can just buy a cape and slap it on their dog and take them anywhere.

/I know, cool story

ratboy: "A dog is a filthy animal."

I don't eat dog neither.

doubled99: Sorry, it's not the same thing.
No amount of will or mindpower will cause broken bones to heal right away.
However, it is in the realm of the possible to adjust your attitude or attempt to react to your feelings in a different way.
We're all WAY too sensitive to the subject, already.

You are wrong.

I've been taking antidepressants for 4 years. I still feel extremely depressed, and so tired it's all I can do to get through the day. If you don't think I've tried like hell to adjust my attitude, you're crazy.

I found out this morning that I have a parathyroid tumor. That's where the depression and fatigue are coming from. No amount of positive thinking will make a tumor go away anymore than it will grow a leg.

Go be a douchebag somewhere else.

Kiliana: Recently, my boyfriend and I had the misfortune of dealing with a poorly trained "service" dog at a nice japanese restaurant. I had noticed outside a wheelchair bound man with a cropped and docked doberman wearing a cheap ass sevice ceviche cape. I commented to the BF about it, and on we went. Inside the restaurant, the dog nearly ran into the kitchen. The man had to roll over and retrieve the dog, because it wouldn't come when called. After that, the staff and other diners were understandably annoyed. Throughout the rest of our dinner, the dog wandered, unleashed, around the owners table, repeatedly ignoring commands to lie down, before finally deciding to comply by lying down in the middle of the aisle. The dog obviously wasn't trained as a service animal. I guess anyone can just buy a cape and slap it on their dog and take them anywhere.

/I know, cool story

/fixed

doubled99: Sorry, it's not the same thing.
No amount of will or mindpower will cause broken bones to heal right away.
However, it is in the realm of the possible to adjust your attitude or attempt to react to your feelings in a different way.
We're all WAY too sensitive to the subject, already.

Sorry it is the same thing.

Broken bones are a visible physical ailment. You can see the broken bone. Unfortunately you can't see the chemicals in a person's body. You can't see their hormone levels. But the chemical imbalance and the hormone deficiency (or in some cases, excess) are a physical and tangible ailment. It's real. It is as real and as physical as a broken bone.

You can no more "will" your body produce seretonin, or correct a chemical imbalance than you can "will" your body set and heal a broken bone.

The fact you can't see chemicals and hormones should be completely irrelevant. Unfortunately people like you can't seem to grasp that fact - and instead ignorantly believe that mental illness is all a matter of will power and attitude, instead of a matter of a physical, tangible ailment.

Though you are right on one account - I am sensitive to issues of mental health. I have had an immediate family member suffer from extreme bipolar disorder (back when it was still called "manic depressive disorder") that ultimately drove that person to suicide after nearly a decade of suffering. I've seen, first hand, how little control they have over themselves, how terribly ineffective most medicines are, and how ignorant the masses tend to be on the subject. It takes an exceptional level of ignorance and gall to say that people with severe mental problems could just be happy and healthy if they just adjusted their attitudes or wanted it hard enough.

For all of you folks that are actually supporting this jackass.....


The Basis of Access Rights

The Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) is a federal civil rights bill passed in 1990. Although the term used in the regulatory language developed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) is service animal, IAADP only accepts as partner members those disabled people working with assistance dogs, and therefore uses that term exclusively.

Under the ADA, disabled Americans have the right to be accompanied by their assistance dogs in all places of public accommodation. Three elements define this right:

1. The disabling condition must be severe enough to substantially limit one or more major life activities, such as the ability to see or hear, speak, breathe, learn, work, think or take care of oneself.

2. The dog must be individually trained to do work or perform tasks which serve to mitigate the disabling condition. (Seventh Circuit decision, Federal Court of Appeals in Bronk v Iniechen)

3. The dog must be well behaved and under control. Business owners and other representatives of places of public accommodation have the legal right to exclude any dog who displays aggressive behavior or is out of control. They may also exclude any dog whose behavior disrupts the provision of goods or services, such as a dog barking in a movie theater.

This schmohawk needs to chill.

Criminally Negligent 2009-12-02 11:26:29 AM

doubled99: Sorry, it's not the same thing.
No amount of will or mindpower will cause broken bones to heal right away.
However, it is in the realm of the possible to adjust your attitude or attempt to react to your feelings in a different way.
We're all WAY too sensitive to the subject, already.

You are wrong.

I've been taking antidepressants for 4 years. I still feel extremely depressed, and so tired it's all I can do to get through the day. If you don't think I've tried like hell to adjust my attitude, you're crazy.

I found out this morning that I have a parathyroid tumor. That's where the depression and fatigue are coming from. No amount of positive thinking will make a tumor go away anymore than it will grow a leg.

Go be a douchebag somewhere else.

Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.

And just to clarify all of this......

SERVICE DOG TASKS
FOR PANIC DISORDER, PTSD and DEPRESSION

The following list identifies a number of tasks a service dog could be trained to do that would serve to mitigate the effects of a disabling condition classified as a psychiatric disability. In particular, the tasks were developed for those who become disabled by Panic Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), or Depression, conditions attributed to a brain chemistry malfunction. The List also contains some activities that may be useful as a coping mechanism, but would not stand up in a court of law as "a trained task that mitigates the effect of a disability," and those will be marked with a Disclaimer to provide guidance to a therapist and patient on that issue. The author, a mobility impaired service dog trainer who has been deeply involved in the assistance dog field for many years, initiated research into this new kind of assistance dog in 1997. She became familiar with these disorders through the input of early pioneers of the psychiatric service dog concept. Subsequent research has involved garnering input from experts in psychology and psychiatry and from patients to gain a better understanding of the symptoms, treatment goals, and ways in which partnership with a service dog might become a valuable adjunct to conventional therapy.

In addition to task training, it should also be recognized that housebreaking, basic obedience training and mastering the behaviors of no nuisance barking, no aggressive behavior, and no inappropriate sniffing or intrusion into another person or dog's space are an essential part of educating any dog for a career as a service dog.

CLARIFICATION: While a dog's companionship may offer emotional support, comfort or a sense of security, this in and of itself does NOT qualify as a "trained task" or "work" under the ADA, thus it does not give a disabled person the legal right to take that dog out in public as a legitimate service dog. Setting up a realistic training plan to transform a dog with a suitable temperament into an obedient, task trained service dog is the only way to legally qualify a dog to become a service dog [service animal] whose disabled handler is legally permitted to take the dog into restaurants, grocery stores, hospitals, medical offices and other places of public accommodation. I recommend reading IAADP's Minimum Training Standards for Public Access for further guidance at www.iaadp.org

doubled99: Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.

Ah thanks for clearing that up. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were ignorant. But it's clear you're just trolling. I'll be sure I farky you a troll so I won't make the same mistake in the future!

doubled99: Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.

Really? That's your response? Are you really that farking retarded? The medication isn't working because I have a tumor you moron. The tumor causes too much of a certain hormone to be produced. I can't wish that away! Anymore than someone can wish themselves a new leg.

The stupid, it's getting too deep in this thread.

My Chihuahua always cheers me up wth his antics. Maybe I should get a doctor's note. My Pit Bull scares away bad people. She doesn't need a note.

I have a service dog. She is a Seizure Alerter.

Yes, I invite curious people to visit her. Visit is one of her favorite commands, as it means she's getting extra attention.

Your allergies do not trump my need for the dog. Nor does your fear of dogs. FWIW, my scary service dog is a Standard Poodle. I got her because I am allergic to dogs.

The world would be a better place if people were as well-mannered as my dog.

My certified Therapy Dog, I will show her to you.



Not a bad bone in her body, but there is about a 98% chance if you play with her, you will bleed.

This thread needs more dog pics.

Talon 2009-12-02 11:51:07 AM

doubled99: Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.
Ah thanks for clearing that up. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were ignorant. But it's clear you're just trolling. I'll be sure I farky you a troll so I won't make the same mistake in the future!

Just because I insulted you doesn't mean I'm trolling. But by all means, dismiss me as such because you can't argue the point. Continue to avoid all things that cause you any discomfort, then wonder why you are the way you are.

Sorry it is the same thing.

Broken bones are a visible physical ailment. You can see the broken bone. Unfortunately you can't see the chemicals in a person's body. You can't see their hormone levels. But the chemical imbalance and the hormone deficiency (or in some cases, excess) are a physical and tangible ailment. It's real. It is as real and as physical as a broken bone.


Again, no, it isn't.
And again, I never said all you had to do was be happy and it would fix all mental problems. I merely said physical and mental disorders are not exactly the same.
When you're scared or angry, the body is flooded with different hormones such as adrenaline. But how you react to such stimulus is in the boundaries of your control.
That's why some people hold their feelings in, while others lash out and attack when overwhelmed by such chemistry.
In your world, there would be no act that wouldn't be excused because of some chemical imbalance in the brain that couldn't be helped.

doubled99
Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.


Sorry man, but your wrong.
Depression is just one of those things that people have a real hard time grasping and fully understanding. People think, its all about "snapping out of it," even though that in itself is pretty much an impossible. So let me explain it a different way....

If I was to ask you right now to stop being happy, in a good mood, and become depressed, could you do it? No you couldnt. You could go through the motions and ACT depressed but the overall underlying feeling would still be there unchanged. You just have to think of depression like that, as the opposite of someone happy trying to make themselves feel miserable, because in reality thats all it is.

radioman_: My Chihuahua always cheers me up wth his antics. Maybe I should get a doctor's note. My Pit Bull scares away bad people. She doesn't need a note.

I can only hazard a guess as to which of your dogs completely bosses the other one around.

doubled99: Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.

That's some breathtaking idiocy there.

doubled99: Just because I insulted you doesn't mean I'm trolling. But by all means, dismiss me as such because you can't argue the point. Continue to avoid all things that cause you any discomfort, then wonder why you are the way you are.

Someone tells you they have a tumor that is causing a chemical imbalance that makes them depressed. And you respond with "go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining."

Then, after having it explained to you multiple times how mental illness is a physical ailment, you continue to spew garbage about using will power to control it.

Either you're admitting you're willfully ignorant (choosing to ignore the reality of mental illness being a physical ailment), or you're a troll (in spite of your denial). Given how you've responded to Negligent and the tumor issue... well you can't blame me for going with troll.

AshHousewares18: My certified Therapy Dog, I will show her to you.



Not a bad bone in her body, but there is about a 98% chance if you play with her, you will bleed.

This thread needs more dog pics.

">">

I am alergic to dogs, what about my right to not have to be around your animal. There is a reason Animals are not generally aloud in stores, it's for eveyones safty and comfort. I don't care when I blind man or a wheel chair bound person needs a helper animal. An animal thats trained and on duty does not bother me (my nose yes, but I get over it because these people have little other choice), but your little happy animal can stay in the car for 15minutes while you go to the store. If you have issues, you can always go back to the car. Otherwise I should be allowed to have pack mule follow me around with all the medical equipment I might need.


This of course isn't the issue in this case, in this case the dude is an asshole they kicked out of the store, nothing to do with his dog. My point is that they shouldn't have let him in with the thing to begin with.

Personally the ADA has always bothered me. Requiring businesses to put in ramps, allows animals, etc is not the American way and only belittles the abilities of most disabled people. It often is a huge issue for small business just trying to get started (The cost of disabled access to an older building can be HUGE money) keeping them from starting or putting them out of business. The lose of one business equals the loss of tax revenue for city,states,fed, loss of jobs, loss of draw to other business in the area, all because your bathroom doors are not big enough, or you don't have a place you can build a ramp,etc. (My Father's business was Structural Engineering and he did huge business designing refits for building just for disabled access)

tukatz: Yes, but unfortunately the fear of getting smacked with an ADA complaint forces businesses to ignore these people. It's too easy to fake a doctor's excuse or buy a fake permit via the internet. There is currently no established permit or labeling for the animals to prove they're legit.


Actually there is a group the International Association of Assistance Dog Partners (IAADP) which is where legit accreditation should come from. Its the group that actually is connected with the DOJ (Department of Justice) who helped develop the guidelines for these animals.

As far as I know this is the only real legitimate organization that can certify Dogs as a Service Animal.

cenobyte40k: I am alergic to dogs, what about my right to not have to be around your animal. There is a reason Animals are not generally aloud in stores, it's for eveyones safty and comfort. I don't care when I blind man or a wheel chair bound person needs a helper animal. An animal thats trained and on duty does not bother me (my nose yes, but I get over it because these people have little other choice), but your little happy animal can stay in the car for 15minutes while you go to the store. If you have issues, you can always go back to the car. Otherwise I should be allowed to have pack mule follow me around with all the medical equipment I might need.


This of course isn't the issue in this case, in this case the dude is an asshole they kicked out of the store, nothing to do with his dog. My point is that they shouldn't have let him in with the thing to begin with.

Personally the ADA has always bothered me. Requiring businesses to put in ramps, allows animals, etc is not the American way and only belittles the abilities of most disabled people. It often is a huge issue for small business just trying to get started (The cost of disabled access to an older building can be HUGE money) keeping them from starting or putting them out of business. The lose of one business equals the loss of tax revenue for city,states,fed, loss of jobs, loss of draw to other business in the area, all because your bathroom doors are not big enough, or you don't have a place you can build a ramp,etc. (My Father's business was Structural Engineering and he did huge business designing refits for building just for disabled access)

Typo or double entendre was my first question, but after reading the rest of your post....

shipofthesun: doubled99: Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.

That's some breathtaking idiocy there.

My intelligent, beautiful sister, who has never had any reason to be upset in the world has tried to off herself on two seperate occasions, and despite never breaking 120lbs has somehow been hospitalized for eating disorders.
I should show her the wisdom in this thread, and she can hopefully learn to just get over it.

Someone tells you they have a tumor that is causing a chemical imbalance that makes them depressed. And you respond with "go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining."

Then, after having it explained to you multiple times how mental illness is a physical ailment, you continue to spew garbage about using will power to control it.


So your closing line of "go be a douchebag somewhere else"
(which I was directly responding to) was perfectly intelligent and non-cobative, huh? I simply responded in kind to your line.
I'm truly sorry if you have some serious medical problem, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be nicer to you than anyone else here.
Oh, and thanks for having it explained to me that mental and physical ailments are exactly the same. I must be a complete idiot because I do continue to disagree. YES, there are mental disorders that require medication and treatment, but your problem is not everyone's problem.
Do you really believe that there is nothing you can do whatsoever about ANY mood disorder? It's just brain chemistry and you're powerless?
Does the concept of self-indulgence even exist in your worldview?

There's so much negativity here.

I feel good about my life because there's some guy who's so depressed he has to carry a chihuahua around with him just to function. Really, my issues aren't even in the same league. My life is awesome compared to his.

\DRTFA

doubled99: Talon 2009-12-02 11:51:07 AM

doubled99: Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.
Ah thanks for clearing that up. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were ignorant. But it's clear you're just trolling. I'll be sure I farky you a troll so I won't make the same mistake in the future!

Just because I insulted you doesn't mean I'm trolling. But by all means, dismiss me as such because you can't argue the point. Continue to avoid all things that cause you any discomfort, then wonder why you are the way you are.

Sorry it is the same thing.

Broken bones are a visible physical ailment. You can see the broken bone. Unfortunately you can't see the chemicals in a person's body. You can't see their hormone levels. But the chemical imbalance and the hormone deficiency (or in some cases, excess) are a physical and tangible ailment. It's real. It is as real and as physical as a broken bone.


Again, no, it isn't.
And again, I never said all you had to do was be happy and it would fix all mental problems. I merely said physical and mental disorders are not exactly the same.
When you're scared or angry, the body is flooded with different hormones such as adrenaline. But how you react to such stimulus is in the boundaries of your control.
That's why some people hold their feelings in, while others lash out and attack when overwhelmed by such chemistry.
In your world, there would be no act that wouldn't be excused because of some chemical imbalance in the brain that couldn't be helped.


I'm going to go ahead and agree with doubled99. Depression sucks, but its possible to get over, on your own if you try. Setting your mind in a state that says it isn't possible is setting you up for failure. I've been there, and I fixed myself w/ no drugs of any kind.

AshHousewares18:
My intelligent, beautiful sister, who has never had any reason to be upset in the world has tried to off herself on two seperate occasions, and despite never breaking 120lbs has somehow been hospitalized for eating disorders.
I should show her the wisdom in this thread, and she can hopefully learn to just get over it.

If nothing else she might realize that compared to some people she's awesome.

Kimpak: I'm going to go ahead and agree with doubled99. Depression sucks, but its possible to get over, on your own if you try. Setting your mind in a state that says it isn't possible is setting you up for failure. I've been there, and I fixed myself w/ no drugs of any kind.

I challenge you to this:

jayday: If I was to ask you right now to stop being happy, in a good mood, and become depressed, could you do it? No you couldnt. You could go through the motions and ACT depressed but the overall underlying feeling would still be there unchanged. You just have to think of depression like that, as the opposite of someone happy trying to make themselves feel miserable, because in reality thats all it is.

Let me know how it works out. Then get back to me on just willing yourself better from a chemical imbalance.

Talon: Kimpak: I'm going to go ahead and agree with doubled99. Depression sucks, but its possible to get over, on your own if you try. Setting your mind in a state that says it isn't possible is setting you up for failure. I've been there, and I fixed myself w/ no drugs of any kind.

I challenge you to this:

jayday: If I was to ask you right now to stop being happy, in a good mood, and become depressed, could you do it? No you couldnt. You could go through the motions and ACT depressed but the overall underlying feeling would still be there unchanged. You just have to think of depression like that, as the opposite of someone happy trying to make themselves feel miserable, because in reality thats all it is.

Let me know how it works out. Then get back to me on just willing yourself better from a chemical imbalance.

Its entirely possible, the question is why the hell would I be motivated to be depressed again? I certinaly wouldn't want to put my family and friends through all that again just to prove my point on foum.

Also self preservation would likely kick in, its roughly equivalent to asking someone to stab themselves just to see if they can do it.

Depression sucks, but its possible to get over, on your own if you try. Setting your mind in a state that says it isn't possible is setting you up for failure. I've been there, and I fixed myself w/ no drugs of any kind

Oh no you didn't! Don't go there, your story will not be accepted here, since it calls into question even an iota of the cetainty that there is nothing you can do about a chemical imabalance.

Depression is not a disability. It's a temporary & treatable inconvenience.

AshHousewares18: My intelligent, beautiful sister, who has never had any reason to be upset in the world has tried to off herself on two seperate occasions, and despite never breaking 120lbs has somehow been hospitalized for eating disorders.
I should show her the wisdom in this thread, and she can hopefully learn to just get over it.

Same here. I've been told to "snap out of it" by better, and louder, than these shiatheads. My dad was a Marine Corps. DI on Paris Island in the early '50's. Growing up with him while being Bipolar type I, and ADHD, and having anxiety disorder, all undiagnosed, was a real walk in the park, let me tell you. These assholes either have no idea what they are talking about and want the world to conform to their little .5 dimensional view due to fear, or are just flat out trolling. Serotonin levels cannot be manually adjusted in folks with these sorts of illnesses. And that may be your crucial difference right there. I have no idea. Can so called "normal" people do this? Make themselves feel better? My mother certainly feels that I should be able to. I only know that I can't, after 46 years of doing my damnedest.

I feel pretty good about my life.

I am bipolar, I have struggled with soul-shattering depression for more than two-thirds of my life, and people like the man in this article PISS ME OFF. Why? Because they bring out of the woodwork all the 'mental illness iznt reel lolololol' clowns, and those of us with a real problem, who are making genuine efforts to correct it or at least live with it, get shiat on as a result.

Your mindset IS a part of your recovery. No one else got my ass up and took me to a psychologist to get help with this genetic chemical imbalance. (Both my sisters are bipolar, I'd wager my mom is but she won't see a doctor, even the grandmother I all but idolized had a lot of signs, in retrospect.) I had to decide I wanted to be better and do it my own damn self. After more than twenty years of trying, fighting, struggling, pretending to be happy when people told me 'It's all in your head, pick yourself up and snap out of it!', I had to realize that I couldn't do it alone.

With my meds, I'm in nursing school, pulling straight A's, and able to be a much better wife and mother. Without them, sure, I'd coast along for a while on sheer bull-headedness, but the illness WOULD get the better of me sooner or later no matter how I fought. Been there, done that, got the scars. The willingness to get better has to come from within, but it's still a real disease and needs to be treated as such.

OTOH, I bet Tiger Woods is wishing he'd just bought a dog.

I "got over" my "mental issues" shortly after I turned 18. I then discovered that all of my problems had been generated by being in high school. Graduating fixed that right up.

See? All it took was a little mind over matter. My case is clearly exactly what everyone else with mental problems needs to do.

/has sympathy for the psychologically messed up, it can be tough
//no sympathy for this guy

Same here. I've been told to "snap out of it" by better, and louder, than these shiatheads. My dad was a Marine Corps. DI on Paris Island in the early '50's. Growing up with him while being Bipolar type I, and ADHD, and having anxiety disorder, all undiagnosed, was a real walk in the park, let me tell you. These assholes either have no idea what they are talking about and want the world to conform to their little .5 dimensional view due to fear, or are just flat out trolling. Serotonin levels cannot be manually adjusted in folks with these sorts of illnesses. And that may be your crucial difference right there. I have no idea. Can so called "normal" people do this? Make themselves feel better? My mother certainly feels that I should be able to. I only know that I can't, after 46 years of doing my damnedest.


Again, your problem is not everyone's problem. It's quite apparent that you are the one that wants the world to conform to your especially narrow view. My opinion on this issue allows a lot of room for argument and exceptions, but you are absolute in your beliefs. Small wonder you've made little progress.

Tali: I feel pretty good about my life.

I am bipolar, I have struggled with soul-shattering depression for more than two-thirds of my life, and people like the man in this article PISS ME OFF. Why? Because they bring out of the woodwork all the 'mental illness iznt reel lolololol' clowns, and those of us with a real problem, who are making genuine efforts to correct it or at least live with it, get shiat on as a result.

Your mindset IS a part of your recovery. No one else got my ass up and took me to a psychologist to get help with this genetic chemical imbalance. (Both my sisters are bipolar, I'd wager my mom is but she won't see a doctor, even the grandmother I all but idolized had a lot of signs, in retrospect.) I had to decide I wanted to be better and do it my own damn self. After more than twenty years of trying, fighting, struggling, pretending to be happy when people told me 'It's all in your head, pick yourself up and snap out of it!', I had to realize that I couldn't do it alone.

With my meds, I'm in nursing school, pulling straight A's, and able to be a much better wife and mother. Without them, sure, I'd coast along for a while on sheer bull-headedness, but the illness WOULD get the better of me sooner or later no matter how I fought. Been there, done that, got the scars. The willingness to get better has to come from within, but it's still a real disease and needs to be treated as such.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. All I'm saying is for the majority of cases in my opinon takeing an anti depressent is akin to taking a tylanol for a headache, it might make you feel good for a bit but it doesn't 'cure' you. You have to let time and healing work its wonders. The mind is a powerfull thing, never underestimate it.

I bet these people also have handicap parking passes.

Kimpak: I'm not saying it doesn't exist. All I'm saying is for the majority of cases in my opinon takeing an anti depressent is akin to taking a tylanol for a headache, it might make you feel good for a bit but it doesn't 'cure' you. You have to let time and healing work its wonders. The mind is a powerfull thing, never underestimate it.

How much time are we talking here? 'Cause my last stint without meds after believing, with all my heart and soul, that I was CURED and I was OKAY and I didn't need the pills anymore lasted ten years, and let me tell ya, the only 'wonder' involved is that I didn't eventually take a hop off the side of the Sunshine Skyway or seriously endanger my family in some way.

You're either a troll or you have no clue WTF you're talking about. No more responses for you.

shipofthesun: AshHousewares18: My intelligent, beautiful sister, who has never had any reason to be upset in the world has tried to off herself on two seperate occasions, and despite never breaking 120lbs has somehow been hospitalized for eating disorders.
I should show her the wisdom in this thread, and she can hopefully learn to just get over it.

Same here. I've been told to "snap out of it" by better, and louder, than these shiatheads. My dad was a Marine Corps. DI on Paris Island in the early '50's. Growing up with him while being Bipolar type I, and ADHD, and having anxiety disorder, all undiagnosed, was a real walk in the park, let me tell you. These assholes either have no idea what they are talking about and want the world to conform to their little .5 dimensional view due to fear, or are just flat out trolling. Serotonin levels cannot be manually adjusted in folks with these sorts of illnesses. And that may be your crucial difference right there. I have no idea. Can so called "normal" people do this? Make themselves feel better? My mother certainly feels that I should be able to. I only know that I can't, after 46 years of doing my damnedest.

But don't you know? Someone out there once felt sad for a few days, decided they were "depressed" and after a few days got over it, therefore you CAN will yourself to produce seretonin! You just gotta want it hard enough. Clearly you enjoy being depressed, bipolar, and suffering from anxiety panic attacks otherwise you would have willed yourself better by now. Hey if some undiagnosed person can get over "depression" clearly your chemical imbalance is within your control.

pfffffft on your service dog, it's all in your head

Talon: But don't you know? Someone out there once felt sad for a few days, decided they were "depressed" and after a few days got over it, therefore you CAN will yourself to produce seretonin! You just gotta want it hard enough. Clearly you enjoy being depressed, bipolar, and suffering from anxiety panic attacks otherwise you would have willed yourself better by now. Hey if some undiagnosed person can get over "depression" clearly your chemical imbalance is within your control.

Isn't it funny how if someone with any other chemical imbalance in the body, like say juvenile diabetes, insisted they could cure themselves through WILLPOWAR!!1!!one! they'd be considered crazy?

PFFFFT, I say

Tali: Kimpak: I'm not saying it doesn't exist. All I'm saying is for the majority of cases in my opinon takeing an anti depressent is akin to taking a tylanol for a headache, it might make you feel good for a bit but it doesn't 'cure' you. You have to let time and healing work its wonders. The mind is a powerfull thing, never underestimate it.

How much time are we talking here? 'Cause my last stint without meds after believing, with all my heart and soul, that I was CURED and I was OKAY and I didn't need the pills anymore lasted ten years, and let me tell ya, the only 'wonder' involved is that I didn't eventually take a hop off the side of the Sunshine Skyway or seriously endanger my family in some way.

You're either a troll or you have no clue WTF you're talking about. No more responses for you.

Isn't it funny how anytime someone has an opinion other than what is popular, they are deemed Troll. The Earth is round. TROLL!

I am no troll, I just offer a differeing opinion. I don't know your situation, all I know is my own and those I have helped in the same sitiuations I was in, and all was done w/o the crutch of any medication.

Tali 2009-12-02 01:07:52 PM
Kimpak: I'm not saying it doesn't exist. All I'm saying is for the majority of cases in my opinon takeing an anti depressent is akin to taking a tylanol for a headache, it might make you feel good for a bit but it doesn't 'cure' you. You have to let time and healing work its wonders. The mind is a powerfull thing, never underestimate it.

How much time are we talking here? 'Cause my last stint without meds after believing, with all my heart and soul, that I was CURED and I was OKAY and I didn't need the pills anymore lasted ten years, and let me tell ya, the only 'wonder' involved is that I didn't eventually take a hop off the side of the Sunshine Skyway or seriously endanger my family in some way.

You're either a troll or you have no clue WTF you're talking about. No more responses for you


Hilarious.
You spout off about your problem, and demand sensitivity to your serious issue. Then tell everyone they're stupid for disagreeing.
This person shares their experience, which you dismiss as as irrelevant, and mock her.
So on top of your other many faults you are a farking hypocrite.
I'm not surprised it's hard living with yourself.

doubled99: Again, your problem is not everyone's problem. It's quite apparent that you are the one that wants the world to conform to your especially narrow view. My opinion on this issue allows a lot of room for argument and exceptions, but you are absolute in your beliefs. Small wonder you've made little progress.

A reasonable man conforms to his environment
An unreasonable man expects his environment to conform to him.
Therefore, all progress is made by unreasonable men

Kimpak
Haven't you realized yet there is no room for your calm, objective opinions here?

doubled99: Kimpak
Haven't you realized yet there is no room for your calm, objective opinions here?

heh, clearly. Oh, well its out there. People can continue living the life they choose.

Okay folks, it seems that everyone is sort of running on half ignorance and half education. Depression, Attention Deficit Disorder Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, general Anxiety Disorder, Post Traumatic stress disorder, Anti-social personality disorder, all are treated in a similar manner, generally by therapy and medication. Are there other ways of treating some or most of these affliction?....sure there are, but for the most part the majority of people have success with Meds and therapy. For those thinking otherwise, yes I can tell you that there are some people that have had success with anything from positive visualization, to Bio-feedback, to exercise, to changing sleeping cycles, to ECT's, to something as crazy as magnets and dietary changes, but for the most part those success's are few.

Generally speaking, unless a patients brain chemistry is changed, or modified in some way, the likelihood of any sort of successful outcome isnt very great. The one definite thing I can tell you is that the idea of just "thinking yourself better" is not a workable treatment if your dealing with someone suffering from clinical depression. Can people that are down and mildly depressed possibly push through there funk to a point of feeling better? Yeah, its possible, but real clinical depression..... that is something that almost always requires real some type of medical intervention.

pureobscure: I'm allergic to dogs and I don't particularly care if this tool is "depressed" for the 15 minutes he's away from his dog. I hope someone shoves Dee-o-Gee up his ass.

This. One of the primary justifications for legally allowing seeing eye dogs in public buildings is that they are trained not to interact with other people unless explicitly commanded to by the owner. The chihuahua was apparently on a leash and running around sniffing things... therefore, not a service animal. A service animal heels and then farking stays there, allergy risks are minimized.

jnapier:
A reasonable man conforms to his environment
An unreasonable man expects his environment to conform to him.
Therefore, all progress is made by unreasonable men

Except that some of our greatest progress has been made by learning to better conform to our environment. Engineering, for instance, works significantly better when you know and account for the tolerances of your materials. How about you go "progress" by refusing to allow the natural tensile strength of a piece of twine to limit you and use it to hold up a mile-long bridge, see how far that gets ya.

2wolves: shipofthesun: doubled99: Actually, I'm right. You just can't handle it.
I didn't say it was easy to change a state of mind, but that it was possible. Obviously there are medical exceptions, but anabling someone's neuroses isn't really helping.
Sounds like the anti-depressants might not be working, ya think?
Yet you're taking them for four years. Sounds reasonable.

Go be mentally defective somewhere else and quit bothering the world with your whining.

That's some breathtaking idiocy there.

He may have a tumor. In his brain.


TUMOR!

Cant someone invoke rule 34?

spacechicken170am: AshHousewares18: My certified Therapy Dog, I will show her to you.



Not a bad bone in her body, but there is about a 98% chance if you play with her, you will bleed.

This thread needs more dog pics.

We call them the odd couple:


Black pitbulls FTW.

/no pitbulls here until I own propety, trying to find a rential place that not only allows dogs, but "dangerous ZOMG!11!!! breeds is damn near impossible.

jnapier:

A reasonable man conforms to his environment
An unreasonable man expects his environment to conform to him.
Therefore, all progress is made by unreasonable men

Though that is a beautiful statement, that first line is suspect.

Anyone ever seen the first episode of Cesar's Way? This woman had a chihuahua that she wanted to get certified as a service dog for her anxiety. The problem was, the dog was vicious. The problem? Her anxiety was affecting the dog, who was feeding off her anxiety and becoming anxious himself. Cesar helped them both by showing her how her own confidence made the dog act better. And, when she gained the confidence, she was no longer afraid to go out into the world and no longer needed a service animal.

The perfect service dog for people with anxiety. She's so darn cute you just need to carry her photo with you to feel calm again!LOL

(My German Shorthair, Sasami)

I lost a girlfriend to a rat-dog. The girl wanted to bring it over so it could "play" with my malamute. The playing went along the lines of:

Rat critter: " YAPYAPYAPYAP"
Malamute: *looks at me* "I get in trouble if I eat this right? Because I really want to eat it, I mean really one bite and blissful silence, come on man..."
Rat Critter: "YAPYAPYAPYAP"
Malamute: "Really, the biatch isn't worth, just leave the room for five seconds, I can make your problems go away."
Rat Critter: *growls and nips at malamute*
Malamute: "Okay, you're farking dead."

The highlight was when the rat critter ran under the couch and tried to hide. The malamute just slammed into the couch, knocked it over, exposing the rat critter and went for the kill.

/the malamute was a good dog

What a service dog used to treat depression may look like.

ha-ha-guy: I lost a girlfriend to a rat-dog. The girl wanted to bring it over so it could "play" with my malamute. The playing went along the lines of:

Rat critter: " YAPYAPYAPYAP"
Malamute: *looks at me* "I get in trouble if I eat this right? Because I really want to eat it, I mean really one bite and blissful silence, come on man..."
Rat Critter: "YAPYAPYAPYAP"
Malamute: "Really, the biatch isn't worth, just leave the room for five seconds, I can make your problems go away."
Rat Critter: *growls and nips at malamute*
Malamute: "Okay, you're farking dead."

The highlight was when the rat critter ran under the couch and tried to hide. The malamute just slammed into the couch, knocked it over, exposing the rat critter and went for the kill.

/the malamute was a good dog

I'd have paid to see that. For a certain segment of the populace (ie me, or people a little bit bent off kilter like me), videotapes of real dogs eating little yappy rat-dogs of various breeds could actually serve as helpful, prescribed therapy.

My service dog cat. Because cleaning crap off the carpet is depressing.

Can't imagine anything smaller than a labrador being a guide dog.

It is true that many therapy dogs are not task-trained, and the concept of task training doesn't really apply for the actual service they perform (if a dog's presence provides comfort, you don't really need to train it to be present). And if that's what the dog does, it's what the dog does.

However, I do think it is reasonable to require all ESAs to meet a minimum standard of behavioral training, with credentials for this type of training to be produced on demand. The AKC's 'Canine Good Citizen' certification would be a good start: obviously not applicable to all types of animals, but a good model to follow. It has the additional advantage that since this training is not directly related to the owner's disability, providing credentials does not inherently disclose what said disability is, and should thus protect the owner's privacy.

Millennium: It is true that many therapy dogs are not task-trained, and the concept of task training doesn't really apply for the actual service they perform (if a dog's presence provides comfort, you don't really need to train it to be present). And if that's what the dog does, it's what the dog does.

However, I do think it is reasonable to require all ESAs to meet a minimum standard of behavioral training, with credentials for this type of training to be produced on demand. The AKC's 'Canine Good Citizen' certification would be a good start: obviously not applicable to all types of animals, but a good model to follow. It has the additional advantage that since this training is not directly related to the owner's disability, providing credentials does not inherently disclose what said disability is, and should thus protect the owner's privacy.

My dog can't pass the AKC good citizen test, so I certified her through an organization that doesn't require it. No matter how hard I've tried, she will not lay down on command. Heel, stay, sit, walking loose on the lead are all great, but something about trying to get her to lay down puts her on stubborn mode.

There are many groups that certify service animals, not just IAADP.

There are some that certify monkeys and miniature horses, for example. The miniature horses are ideal for people in wheelchairs as they are substantially stronger than a dog and have a much longer useful life.

If you are allergic to dogs or are afraid of dogs, I'm sorry, but my need for the dog trumps your problems.

And for whoever hates the ADA/thinks it's bad law: You won't think so when it's you or someone you love who needs help.

Seifer_babe: Anyone ever seen the first episode of Cesar's Way? This woman had a chihuahua that she wanted to get certified as a service dog for her anxiety. The problem was, the dog was vicious. The problem? Her anxiety was affecting the dog, who was feeding off her anxiety and becoming anxious himself. Cesar helped them both by showing her how her own confidence made the dog act better. And, when she gained the confidence, she was no longer afraid to go out into the world and no longer needed a service animal.

Sounds similar to how AA was started.

starlost: simply a case of the doctor pencil whipping the note to get the asshat out of his office. so now this asshat with [cough cough bullshiate] anxiety and depression issues can make himself a attention whore. why would people really suffering with this want to draw attention and more anxiety to themselves?

I was agoraphobic for a little while so I got a cat to keep me company. I chose a cat so I wouldn't have to leave my home to walk it or anything like that. Cats weren't allowed in my building so I had my psychiatrist write a letter to my landlord. So they let me have the cat.

I used to take him outside on a harness a night (when there were fewer people around) to get used to being outside. It helped to have the cat to focus all my attention on. It also gave me something to talk about / divert attention to with anyone who wanted to chat with me.

Now I never tried to take the cat anywhere with me, other than outside of my apartment building. But I see where the drama queen is coming from. Mental illness is serious stuff and pets really can help. I also had weekly counseling, and lots of medication -- but taking my cat outside to eat grass actually helped me acclimate to being outside of my comfort zone.

Depression is not grounds for taking your dog into any store you feel like. What about the depression of whoever is then stuck disinfecting the place?

In terms of registration, licensing, etc., I'm leaning towards looking at service animals like handicapped parking spots. In order to use a handicapped spot in Pennsylvania, you have to display a placard or have a special license plate that's available from a central licensing agency (the DMV, I believe). There's nothing wrong with requiring someone asking for accomodations not available to the general public to prove they're entitled to them.

Further, I can't understand why a doctor would be willing to write a note allowing someone a service animal if there was no way to prove the animal was safe in public. If I were ever harmed by a questionable "service animal", I'd certainly consider legally going after the doctor that allowed such a situation to occur.

B A: absherlock: Further, I can't understand why a doctor would be willing to write a note allowing someone a service animal if there was no way to prove the animal was safe in public. If I were ever harmed by a questionable "service animal", I'd certainly consider legally going after the doctor that allowed such a situation to occur. & the person using the "service animal" & the business that allowed it in.

Well, yeah. I didn't list them because I thought they were obvious and was trying to focus on the doctors writing these possibly bogus notes. But I wasn't completely clear, so thanks for clarifying.

Thank god Talon and Tali went off to their group therapy. Probably just multiple personalities.

cenobyte40k: I am alergic to dogs, what about my right to not have to be around your animal. There is a reason Animals are not generally aloud in stores, it's for eveyones safty and comfort. I don't care when I blind man or a wheel chair bound person needs a helper animal. An animal thats trained and on duty does not bother me (my nose yes, but I get over it because these people have little other choice), but your little happy animal can stay in the car for 15minutes while you go to the store. If you have issues, you can always go back to the car. Otherwise I should be allowed to have pack mule follow me around with all the medical equipment I might need.


This of course isn't the issue in this case, in this case the dude is an asshole they kicked out of the store, nothing to do with his dog. My point is that they shouldn't have let him in with the thing to begin with.

Personally the ADA has always bothered me. Requiring businesses to put in ramps, allows animals, etc is not the American way and only belittles the abilities of most disabled people. It often is a huge issue for small business just trying to get started (The cost of disabled access to an older building can be HUGE money) keeping them from starting or putting them out of business. The lose of one business equals the loss of tax revenue for city,states,fed, loss of jobs, loss of draw to other business in the area, all because your bathroom doors are not big enough, or you don't have a place you can build a ramp,etc. (My Father's business was Structural Engineering and he did huge business designing refits for building just for disabled access)


Maybe you can explain this to me, I don't really mean to be rude but why don't people who are allergic to dander take an antihistamine every day and be done with it? Surely there are people whose clothes are covered in fur everywhere, setting you off? I'm allergic to pollen ie hayfever, and I don't go around getting upset because the supermarket sells flowers and the hospital has them on the desk. I just suck it up, take a pill and get over it, which is a lot easier than avoiding the problem

I actually know all of the people involved in this and can say that the shop owners in question were the absolute champions of social justice in our town. They would never discriminate against anyone, spent a lot of time on charities and taught us kids to be better people.

It's idiots like this guy that ruin lives and make a mockery of the court system. I wanted to be there as part of a demonstration but alas could not. Any ticked off Ontarians on here by all means please email the HRC and tell them to stop wasting our money!

http://allforoneandnonefortherest.blog.com/ (new window)
blog detailing everything this gentleman has done to many businesses in our town (personal opinions aside).

Illusionmadness
I actually know all of the people involved in this and can say that the shop owners in question were the absolute champions of social justice in our town. They would never discriminate against anyone, spent a lot of time on charities and taught us kids to be better people.

It's idiots like this guy that ruin lives and make a mockery of the court system. I wanted to be there as part of a demonstration but alas could not. Any ticked off Ontarians on here by all means please email the HRC and tell them to stop wasting our money!

http://allforoneandnonefortherest.blog.com/ (new window)
blog detailing everything this gentleman has done to many businesses in our town (personal opinions aside).



Just peaked in and saw this, and figured let you know about the US laws when it comes to this type of thing. The reason being that the line of thinking when it comes to the disabled isnt really any different in the US than it is in Canada. Anyway, if you know these peole you may want to tell them about this(might save a lot of $$$ on a lawyer).....



SERVICE DOG TASKS
FOR PANIC DISORDER, PTSD and DEPRESSION

The following list identifies a number of tasks a service dog could be trained to do that would serve to mitigate the effects of a disabling condition classified as a psychiatric disability. In particular, the tasks were developed for those who become disabled by Panic Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), or Depression, conditions attributed to a brain chemistry malfunction. The List also contains some activities that may be useful as a coping mechanism, but would not stand up in a court of law as "a trained task that mitigates the effect of a disability," and those will be marked with a Disclaimer to provide guidance to a therapist and patient on that issue. The author, a mobility impaired service dog trainer who has been deeply involved in the assistance dog field for many years, initiated research into this new kind of assistance dog in 1997. She became familiar with these disorders through the input of early pioneers of the psychiatric service dog concept. Subsequent research has involved garnering input from experts in psychology and psychiatry and from patients to gain a better understanding of the symptoms, treatment goals, and ways in which partnership with a service dog might become a valuable adjunct to conventional therapy.

In addition to task training, it should also be recognized that housebreaking, basic obedience training and mastering the behaviors of no nuisance barking, no aggressive behavior, and no inappropriate sniffing or intrusion into another person or dog's space are an essential part of educating any dog for a career as a service dog.

CLARIFICATION: While a dog's companionship may offer emotional support, comfort or a sense of security, this in and of itself does NOT qualify as a "trained task" or "work" under the ADA, thus it does not give a disabled person the legal right to take that dog out in public as a legitimate service dog. Setting up a realistic training plan to transform a dog with a suitable temperament into an obedient, task trained service dog is the only way to legally qualify a dog to become a service dog [service animal] whose disabled handler is legally permitted to take the dog into restaurants, grocery stores, hospitals, medical offices and other places of public accommodation. I recommend reading IAADP's Minimum Training Standards for Public Access for further guidance at http://www.iaadp.org/

Most Service Dog groups like you to have a Canine Good Citizen from AKC. Other dog clubs offer similar tests.

When Mia & I went for the CGC, we had a problem. As seizure dog she is supposed to stay with me. But the test requires that she stay 20+ feet away & come when called. To do this, the tester held her while I walked away. She came like a rocket.

I explained beforehand to the woman what was up, and why. She was more than happy to help us.

The actual certification test is done somewhere busy with food. We were at a grocery store. One of the tests is to have the dog stand quietly while strangers pet it. Usually this is easy, but that day I had to ask people to pet Mia. I think it confused people to see a huge crowd of service dogs at once (there were 7 being tested that day).

We passed certification with 47/50.

chatoyance: cenobyte40k: I am alergic to dogs, what about my right to not have to be around your animal. There is a reason Animals are not generally aloud in stores, it's for eveyones safty and comfort. I don't care when I blind man or a wheel chair bound person needs a helper animal. An animal thats trained and on duty does not bother me (my nose yes, but I get over it because these people have little other choice), but your little happy animal can stay in the car for 15minutes while you go to the store. If you have issues, you can always go back to the car. Otherwise I should be allowed to have pack mule follow me around with all the medical equipment I might need.


This of course isn't the issue in this case, in this case the dude is an asshole they kicked out of the store, nothing to do with his dog. My point is that they shouldn't have let him in with the thing to begin with.

Personally the ADA has always bothered me. Requiring businesses to put in ramps, allows animals, etc is not the American way and only belittles the abilities of most disabled people. It often is a huge issue for small business just trying to get started (The cost of disabled access to an older building can be HUGE money) keeping them from starting or putting them out of business. The lose of one business equals the loss of tax revenue for city,states,fed, loss of jobs, loss of draw to other business in the area, all because your bathroom doors are not big enough, or you don't have a place you can build a ramp,etc. (My Father's business was Structural Engineering and he did huge business designing refits for building just for disabled access)


Maybe you can explain this to me, I don't really mean to be rude but why don't people who are allergic to dander take an antihistamine every day and be done with it? Surely there are people whose clothes are covered in fur everywhere, setting you off? I'm allergic to pollen ie hayfever, and I don't go around getting upset because the supermarket sells flowers and the hospital has them on the desk. I just suck it up, take a pill and get over it, which is a lot easier than avoiding the problem



Because an antihistimine will only work if your allergy is mild, and maybe not even then. If you have severe asthma, being exposed to animals can hospitalize you or trigger a fatal attack. And trust me, those patients ARE on every controller med available, yet they are still susceptible. Asthma attacks account for one quarter of ER visits in America. Asthma is the cause of more than 4,000 deaths per year, and contributes to nearly 7,000 others. Citation: http://www.aafa.org/display.cfm?id=8&sub=42

fubarfreestyle: i work fior an airline in the US and the ADA has complicated this mess almost uncontrollably. Many dog show participants found the loophole and their show dogs instantly became service animals to avoid the checked pet fees. an airplane full of rotweilers and collies and mastiffs for "emotional support" or "fear of flying" is bullshait.

When I found out they don't check too close about carry-on pets but still charge $80 to ride, my kitteh instantly became hand baggage.

Illusionmadness: I actually know all of the people involved in this and can say that the shop owners in question were the absolute champions of social justice in our town. They would never discriminate against anyone, spent a lot of time on charities and taught us kids to be better people.

It's idiots like this guy that ruin lives and make a mockery of the court system. I wanted to be there as part of a demonstration but alas could not. Any ticked off Ontarians on here by all means please email the HRC and tell them to stop wasting our money!

http://allforoneandnonefortherest.blog.com/ (new window)
blog detailing everything this gentleman has done to many businesses in our town (personal opinions aside).

LOL!

I DRTFA but knowing that this happened in Canada (Nobody from Ontario, California calls them selves an "Ontarian") makes all the comments about the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) quite humorous.

The false dichotomies presented are also quite funny.

Either way I feel good knowing I don't have to carry a chihuahua around just to function.

"If you need a "comfort dog" or whatever the crap they're called, then STOP IT!"