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(The Register)   Nanny state uses new terrorism powers to arrest schizophrenic with an Estes model rocket and a pocket knife   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 121
    More: Stupid, counter-terrorism, The Register, refusal, MPs, arrests, criminal records, police station, no charges  
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5755 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2009 at 10:41 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-11-24 10:44:09 AM
Did the nanny state glue the pocket knife to the Estes rocket then aim the contracption at the schizophrenic? That would sure terrify me.
 
2009-11-24 10:48:29 AM
/wonders where his model rockets are stashed... probably still in his parents' attic along with his other childhood toys.
 
2009-11-24 10:48:47 AM
radioman_: Did the nanny state glue the pocket knife to the Estes rocket then aim the contracption at the schizophrenic? That would sure terrify me.

Yep. That is one skillful use of a rocket and a jackknife.
 
2009-11-24 10:49:21 AM
V?
 
2009-11-24 10:49:52 AM
FTFA: In June the man, JFL, who spoke on condition we do not publish his full name...

"L?" I cant think of any Muslim sounding names that begin with "L." Probably not a terrorist.
 
2009-11-24 10:50:14 AM
Am I reading this correctly? In the UK you do not have the right to silence?
 
2009-11-24 10:50:57 AM
The terrorists have won.
 
2009-11-24 10:51:49 AM
When you take the model rockets away from schizophrenics, only criminals will have model rockets.
 
2009-11-24 10:52:15 AM
As much as the thing he was eventually sectioned for is a horrible law, I get the impression that he was going to get himself locked up anyway.

Kept missing court dates and skipping bail, tried to get an illegal passport and leave the country, was generally sending a message of "I'm mentally unstable and I could have the knowledge and equipment to blow something up".

Get the impression that he was anti-terror force's worst nightmare. Someone who could clearly go off the rails at any moment but was just skirting around the edge of the law in a way where he couldn't be forced to receive treatment. Guessing they eventually got tired of the mountain of paperwork he was causing and decided to get him done on a technicality so he could get sectioned.
 
2009-11-24 10:52:16 AM
Wow, I remember launching Estes rockets when I was younger. Half the time, the engines didn't fire.

/only buit the single-stage model
 
2009-11-24 10:53:02 AM
Nanny state uses new terrorism powers to arrest schizophrenic with an Estes model rocket and a pocket knife...and traces of high explosive on his hands, after failing to appear at police stations on appointment, leaving town, missing bail after leaving the country, refusal to answer questions, refusal to comply with lawful orders, posession of a book on gun manufacture and a book on methamphetamine production (not in itself illegal but suspicious given the rest of the circumstances) and his refusal to speak making pre-trial interviews pointless (how can you determine someone's stae of mind when they simply don't talk?), yeah, he'd have got off all of that in another country. GOD DAMN NANNY STATE HEY?!!!

Go frkk yourself subtard.
 
2009-11-24 10:53:09 AM
I'm sorry, but draconian powers that are akin to those used by the gestapo and KGB don't marry well with the term Nanny state.
 
2009-11-24 10:54:06 AM
*built

/facepalm
 
2009-11-24 10:54:46 AM
I read that whole thing with my mouth hanging open. THIS is why I will never go to Great Britain, despite being a citizen and having a passport. That was a big old pile of police state bullshiat. No right to silence? Jesus Tubthumping Christ!
 
2009-11-24 10:56:15 AM
No_One_Special: Am I reading this correctly? In the UK you do not have the right to silence?

You have the right to remain silent unless the police get a court order from a judge forcing you to reveal important information (passwords and encryption keys). If you say you don't know them, the police have to prove you're knowingly withholding them (very difficult to do). The reason there have been so few convictions (think the article says there have been 3) is because it's only likey to convict (stupid) people who actively refuse to give over codes rather than just say they've forgotten them.
 
2009-11-24 10:56:20 AM
AnubisAscended: Wow, I remember launching Estes rockets when I was younger. Half the time, the engines didn't fire.

/only buit the single-stage model


Same here. Only I turned a single stage into a two stage. Also, you know the old NASA saying, "With enough thrust, even a brick can fly"? I know for a fact that you can get at least half a brick off the ground.

/Also put a frog in the egg launcher model.
//The parachute failed.
 
2009-11-24 10:56:20 AM
reveal101: I read that whole thing with my mouth hanging open. THIS is why I will never go to Great Britain, despite being a citizen and having a passport. That was a big old pile of police state bullshiat. No right to silence? Jesus Tubthumping Christ!

Good, you're not welcome.
 
2009-11-24 10:57:16 AM
Why did they arrest him with an Estes model rocket and a pocket knife? Surely handcuffs and a policeman would be much better?

Why is it always the lunatics who take a stand over dodgy legislation. He sounds like a fruitcake. Why can't we have someone like Alan Sugar decide to take a stand? That would kill two birds with one stone, someone famous and with clout would be campaigning against drraconian legislation AND we would geet Alan Sugar off of the streets and off of the TV.
 
2009-11-24 10:57:57 AM
"Stupid" tag? Was the "Scary" tag too afraid to show itself? This is scary.
 
2009-11-24 10:58:21 AM
www.dvdtalk.com
 
2009-11-24 10:59:38 AM
Noticeably F.A.T.: AnubisAscended: Wow, I remember launching Estes rockets when I was younger. Half the time, the engines didn't fire.

/only buit the single-stage model

Same here. Only I turned a single stage into a two stage. Also, you know the old NASA saying, "With enough thrust, even a brick can fly"? I know for a fact that you can get at least half a brick off the ground.

/Also put a frog in the egg launcher model.
//The parachute failed.


never had a problem with the engines not firing... my chutes almost never deployed. switched to streamer recovery models which seemed to work better
 
2009-11-24 11:00:19 AM
reveal101: THIS is why I will never go to Great Britain, despite being a citizen and having a passport. That was a big old pile of police state bullshiat.

And what would happen to a schizophrenic in the USA who was found entering the US from Cuba with a model rocket and traces of military-grade high explosive on his hands?

LAND OF THE FREE
HOME OF THE BRAVE
 
2009-11-24 11:00:29 AM
I did have a realy good chuckle when I read : "One file encrypted using software from the German firm Steganos was cracked, but investigators found only another PGP container."

Go PGP!!!
 
2009-11-24 11:00:55 AM
reveal101: I read that whole thing with my mouth hanging open. THIS is why I will never go to Great Britain, despite being a citizen and having a passport. That was a big old pile of police state bullshiat. No right to silence? Jesus Tubthumping Christ!

I'm betting that that's your default expression.
 
2009-11-24 11:01:55 AM
The Witch: I'm not a witch I'm not a witch!
Sir Bedevere: But you are dressed as one
The Witch: *They* dressed me up like this!
Crowd: We didn't! We didn't...
The Witch: And this isn't my nose. It's a false one.
Sir Bedevere: [lifts up her false nose] Well?
Peasant 1: Well, we did do the nose.
Sir Bedevere: The nose?
Peasant 1: And the hat, but she is a witch!
Crowd: Yeah! Burn her! Burn her!
Sir Bedevere: Did you dress her up like this?
Peasant 1: No!
Peasant 3, Peasant 2: No!
Peasant 3: No!
Peasant 1: No!
Peasant 3, Peasant 2: No!
Peasant 1: Yes!
Peasant 2: Yes!
Peasant 1: Yeah a bit.
Peasant 3: A bit!
Peasant 1, Peasant 2: A bit!
Peasant 2: a bit
Peasant 1: But she has got a wart!
Random Person in the crowd: *cough* *cough*
 
2009-11-24 11:01:57 AM
fireclown: Clearly sees nothing wrong with a nanny state.

Awesome. Loves me some Three-Dollar Bill.
 
2009-11-24 11:02:12 AM
I imagine if I continually skipped bail, changed addresses, mailed books suggesting an interest in explosives and drug making and then had numerous encrypted hard drives I might become of interest to the authorities.

Nothing at all suspicious about that activity at all.

However, I would expect to be let go when they found out I wasn't a terrorist.
 
2009-11-24 11:04:01 AM
BlackMuntu: reveal101: THIS is why I will never go to Great Britain, despite being a citizen and having a passport. That was a big old pile of police state bullshiat.

And what would happen to a schizophrenic in the USA who was found entering the US from Cuba with a model rocket and traces of military-grade high explosive on his hands?

LAND OF THE FREE
HOME OF THE BRAVE


Well he wouldn't be charged.

Just locked up indefinitely and probably tortured.
 
2009-11-24 11:07:01 AM
Prof.Xomox: I did have a realy good chuckle when I read : "One file encrypted using software from the German firm Steganos was cracked, but investigators found only another PGP container."

Go PGP!!!


This made me LOL and this guy is my new hero. I bet it is nothing more then a bunch of porn. Well that is what I do with mine.
 
2009-11-24 11:09:09 AM
abigsmurf: No_One_Special: Am I reading this correctly? In the UK you do not have the right to silence?

You have the right to remain silent unless the police get a court order from a judge forcing you to reveal important information (passwords and encryption keys). If you say you don't know them, the police have to prove you're knowingly withholding them (very difficult to do). The reason there have been so few convictions (think the article says there have been 3) is because it's only likey to convict (stupid) people who actively refuse to give over codes rather than just say they've forgotten them.


Along the same lines, try asserting your fourth and fifth ammendment rights at US customs when they want to (a) search your laptop for files, and then (b) ask you to enter your password to decrypt any encrypted files/partitions they find.
 
2009-11-24 11:10:19 AM
Looks like I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue
 
2009-11-24 11:13:14 AM
No no, I mean the article says something along the lines of "Mr. so-and-so believes he has a right to silence, and this belief is going to get him prosecuted under derpy derpy doo"

Along the same lines, try asserting your fourth and fifth ammendment rights at US customs when they want to (a) search your laptop for files, and then (b) ask you to enter your password to decrypt any encrypted files/partitions they find.

You can refuse to do so- if they have a warrant to search your files they can crack the damn thing themselves.
 
2009-11-24 11:14:11 AM
Prof.Xomox: I did have a realy good chuckle when I read : "One file encrypted using software from the German firm Steganos was cracked, but investigators found only another PGP container."

Go PGP!!!


I found that amusing on at least 2 levels. First being that he wrapped a hardcore encryption in something a bit crappy, probably to wind up anyone who looked for encrypted data. Secondly, now everyone knows not to use Steganos to encrypt their data if you don't want the authorities to access it.
 
2009-11-24 11:15:42 AM
Model rockets, oh how I love thee.

Was big into them as a kid, but stopped buying them. Limited selection, and when the local stores stopped carrying them, that was pretty much the end.

My sister got back into it in college. Living in Austin, we have hobby stores that carry the good stuff. Picked her up a e-engine powered D-Region Tomahawk. Mofo is three feet tall, and goes up like a thousand feet. Absolute beast.
 
2009-11-24 11:16:02 AM
FTA: He returned to Paddington Green station as appointed on 2 December, and was re-arrested for carrying a pocket knife.

Bet that was the first good night's sleep for the Queen in a long time!
 
2009-11-24 11:16:54 AM
The Envoy: Nanny state uses new terrorism powers to arrest schizophrenic with an Estes model rocket and a pocket knife...and traces of high explosive on his hands, after failing to appear at police stations on appointment, leaving town, missing bail after leaving the country, refusal to answer questions, refusal to comply with lawful orders, posession of a book on gun manufacture and a book on methamphetamine production (not in itself illegal but suspicious given the rest of the circumstances) and his refusal to speak making pre-trial interviews pointless (how can you determine someone's stae of mind when they simply don't talk?), yeah, he'd have got off all of that in another country. GOD DAMN NANNY STATE HEY?!!!

Go frkk yourself subtard.


Those are all lame reasons to imprison someone. Face it dude - your country sucks. England does not trust its citizens, treats them like children and uses Orwellian logic, such as taking away freedom to protect democracy, as an excuse for its actions.

Look, I know Brits think people in North America are a bunch of lunatics who needlessly court danger through our excessive freedoms. Most of us, in turn think you are all too ready to exchange your freedoms or the freedoms of your fellow citizens for a false sense of security and that you are on a slippery slope to 1984. It becomes a question of values. I would rather live in a more dangerous but freer world while you would rather have less freedom but a sense of security.

In closing, and in the words of Emiliano Zapata: "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 
2009-11-24 11:24:48 AM
rattchett: Those are all lame reasons to imprison someone. Face it dude - your country sucks. England does not trust its citizens, treats them like children and uses Orwellian logic, such as taking away freedom to protect democracy, as an excuse for its actions.

Look, I know Brits think people in North America are a bunch of lunatics who needlessly court danger through our excessive freedoms. Most of us, in turn think you are all too ready to exchange your freedoms or the freedoms of your fellow citizens for a false sense of security and that you are on a slippery slope to 1984. It becomes a question of values. I would rather live in a more dangerous but freer world while you would rather have less freedom but a sense of security.

In closing, and in the words of Emiliano Zapata: "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"


So he'd have gone free in the US having done all of that would he?! You, my friend, are deluded if you think so.
 
2009-11-24 11:28:08 AM
The Envoy

So he'd have gone free in the US having done all of that would he?! You, my friend, are deluded if you think so

In the US there would be nothing to charge him with. He kept his mouth shut like a good citizen should.
 
2009-11-24 11:32:24 AM
Surely this is the actions of an 'anti-nanny state', subby? We're just doing what you Americans have done for the last 8 years - stitch someone up under phoney turrism laws then section them as loonies and lock them away.
 
2009-11-24 11:35:52 AM
i637.photobucket.com

/hotlink
 
2009-11-24 11:37:06 AM
Marcus Aurelius: The Envoy

So he'd have gone free in the US having done all of that would he?! You, my friend, are deluded if you think so

In the US there would be nothing to charge him with. He kept his mouth shut like a good citizen should.


In the states he would have been in Guantanamo Bay before you could say "Right wing fascist conspiracy, fark you Bush and Cheney and your phoney war for oil"
 
2009-11-24 11:39:24 AM
British version of what we call the Miranda warning here in the U.S.:

"You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."

In other words, you can't credibly use a defense argument later in court if you don't divulge it to the cops right away. The fact that you used a right to silence can be used against you to weight evidence as an indicator of guilt.
 
2009-11-24 11:39:36 AM
luckyeddie

In the states he would have been in Guantanamo Bay before you could say "Right wing fascist conspiracy, fark you Bush and Cheney and your phoney war for oil"

We only put Muslims in Gitmo. White Christian-looking Americans that manage to keep their mouths shut invariably walk away.
 
2009-11-24 11:41:06 AM
Marcus Aurelius: The Envoy

So he'd have gone free in the US having done all of that would he?! You, my friend, are deluded if you think so

In the US there would be nothing to charge him with. He kept his mouth shut like a good citizen should.


Eh. Depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction they could probably hold him a while. The right judge could do a indefinite Contempt of Court or a Baker Act (Mental Health)hold. But I doubt they could actually get good charges.
 
2009-11-24 11:42:56 AM
One word: Guantanamo.
It's a 'STFU Yank Card'. Valid for the next 10 years.
 
2009-11-24 11:43:11 AM
AnubisAscended: Wow, I remember launching Estes rockets when I was younger. Half the time, the engines didn't fire.

/only buit the single-stage model


I had a two-stage rocket blow up on the launch pad. The lower stage shot sideways toward me as a smoking fireball while the upper stage went up a short distance then fell to the ground. My friend who was less clueful about rockets ran to it and was about to pick it up when I reminded him that it was still live and was about to fire the parachute-ejection charge.
 
2009-11-24 11:43:52 AM
Another Government Employee

Eh. Depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction they could probably hold him a while. The right judge could do a indefinite Contempt of Court or a Baker Act (Mental Health)hold. But I doubt they could actually get good charges.

The critical part is keeping your mouth shut. If you tell a Fed that the sky is blue, they'll put you in jail for five years for lying.
 
2009-11-24 11:50:29 AM
Iron Chef Scottish: One word: Guantanamo.
It's a 'STFU Yank Card'. Valid for the next 10 years.


Only if you are a Muslim.

That's not to say the authorities won't try to make your life miserable otherwise.
 
2009-11-24 11:52:13 AM
Iron Chef Scottish: One word: Guantanamo.
It's a 'STFU Yank Card'. Valid for the next 10 years.


except that Gitmo is for damn dirty foreigners, not the local citizenry. TFA indicates that the man in question was from London. We're not sending crazy DC natives to Cuba... though that might help with traffic.
 
2009-11-24 11:52:18 AM
abigsmurf: As much as the thing he was eventually sectioned for is a horrible law, I get the impression that he was going to get himself locked up anyway.

Kept missing court dates and skipping bail, tried to get an illegal passport and leave the country, was generally sending a message of "I'm mentally unstable and I could have the knowledge and equipment to blow something up".

Get the impression that he was anti-terror force's worst nightmare. Someone who could clearly go off the rails at any moment but was just skirting around the edge of the law in a way where he couldn't be forced to receive treatment. Guessing they eventually got tired of the mountain of paperwork he was causing and decided to get him done on a technicality so he could get sectioned.


You have actually RTFA
Your argument is invalid
 
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