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(Some Guy)   School board expels student for having legally possessed, unloaded shotguns off school property. In other news, schools are using dogs to search parked cars anywhere they damn well please, because it's for the children   (chicoer.com) divider line 255
    More: Stupid, school boards, private property, Willows Civic Center, unified school district, Gary Tudesko, board of trustees, Susan Parisio, PST  
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21728 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Nov 2009 at 7:51 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-11-21 10:55:18 AM  
WTF. The gun-free schools act excludes non-concealable weapons being legally transported. The article even says this. An unloaded shotgun in a truck meets this definition. This school has no legal grounds to stand on.
 
2009-11-21 11:02:47 AM  
Thousands of people every year are not shot by unloaded firearms.
 
2009-11-21 11:07:32 AM  
nardman: This school has no legal grounds to stand on.


School boards aren't exactly known for their rational decision making.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2009-11-21 11:23:17 AM  
Hopefully the federal gun free school zone law will be killed as a violation of the second amendment.

scent-sniffing dogs detected something in a pickup

Not something! Anything but something!
 
2009-11-21 11:23:55 AM  
I'm curious about the "scent sniffing dogs." What else would a dog sniff?
 
2009-11-21 11:28:14 AM  
Old policy: No child left behind.

New policy: No stone left unturned.
 
2009-11-21 11:32:08 AM  
MorrisBird: I'm curious about the "scent sniffing dogs." What else would a dog sniff?

Butt, clearly
 
2009-11-21 11:54:04 AM  
MorrisBird: I'm curious about the "scent sniffing dogs." What else would a dog sniff?

Snickels, sdimes, squarters and sfolding money?


/Sorry, I need more coffee.
 
2009-11-21 12:10:31 PM  
oldebayer: MorrisBird: I'm curious about the "scent sniffing dogs." What else would a dog sniff?

Snickels, sdimes, squarters and sfolding money?


/Sorry, I need more coffee.


The article said he had been bird-hunting, so the dogs probably smelled fresh kills. I hope the school district gets sued into oblivion. This isn't Great Britain, the kid was legally transporting an unloaded firearm off school property. And police sniffing dogs are the biggest load of bullshiat that law enforcement and their partners in crime, state's attorneys, have foisted on the American public. There are no K9 training standards, nor are there any regulations regarding what is and isn't a "hit." It literally comes down to: "Your honor, the dog told me there were drugs in the car!"
 
2009-11-21 12:30:12 PM  
Hmmmmm, I live 2 doors from the High School. I own the property, tons of kids park in front of my house and throw trash in my yard.

Let's assume my kid has an unloaded shotgun, hard to hide, with ammo properly secured in the vehicle in the driveway and it is not on school property, the school gets a hit and he gets expelled. I don't think that is legal. What if it is in my house that close, is it illegal? This is ridiculous!

While I grew up with guns, that was controversial, I learned to use them and respect them. A pocket knife was a rite of passage when I grew up, now they are a deadly weapon. At some point, this has to stop.
 
2009-11-22 07:48:01 AM  
As someone who doesn't share the American genetic fascination with guns, even I have to say WTF?
 
2009-11-22 07:56:33 AM  
Archie Goodwin: As someone who doesn't share the American genetic fascination with guns, even I have to say WTF?

Same here, except my high school did something similarly stupid: they would suspend students and take other disciplinary action if they caught you at local nightclubs.
 
2009-11-22 07:58:35 AM  
Fear_and_Loathing: At some point, this has to stop.

When sporks are outlawed only outlaws will have sporks.
 
2009-11-22 07:59:59 AM  
ZAZ: Hopefully the federal gun free school zone law will be killed as a violation of the second amendment.

scent-sniffing dogs detected something in a pickup

Not something! Anything but something!


No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.
 
2009-11-22 08:00:16 AM  
A good case for any recent bar passer. Go to court, get a little experience, a quick win, and some confidence for the real cases ahead.

Jeesh.
 
2009-11-22 08:02:25 AM  
When I was in high school, back in the 70's...it was NOT uncommon to see 3/4 of the pick up trucks in the school parking lot with gun racks that had LOADED guns in them, 90% of the kids had buck knives on their belts, and a lot of "Skoal" can rings could be seen in the jean pockets of guys.
Bunch of panty-waste politically correct idiots running schools now.
 
2009-11-22 08:02:59 AM  
edmo: A good case for any recent bar passer. Go to court, get a little experience, a quick win, and some confidence for the real cases ahead.


+1

More recent graduates need to see pro-bono cases like this as the huge opportunity they are.
 
2009-11-22 08:03:23 AM  
Mark Twain's rant about school boards.
"First, God invented idiots.That was for practice.Then he invented school boards."
 
2009-11-22 08:03:46 AM  
PonceAlyosha: No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.

Maybe. But the school probably has no legal grounds for expelling a student who did not do anything wrong.
 
2009-11-22 08:06:25 AM  
You have all missed the legal brinkmanship the principal used in justifying this, which clearly makes it OK:

Geivett said the school was responsible for students traveling to and from school as well as during lunch. He said he believed that students should not possess weapons within 1,000 feet of campus.

Geivett said he believed off-campus parking around the school was under the school's jurisdiction, in part because it is primarily used by students.


Believing something makes it all good.
 
2009-11-22 08:07:26 AM  
crab66: PonceAlyosha: No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.

Maybe. But the school probably has no legal grounds for expelling a student who did not do anything wrong.


That is true. The law should be changed to reflect common sense. It's wrong to punish the student because the law is not consistent.
 
2009-11-22 08:07:43 AM  
My guess is that the school board does not want to be put on the hook if there were a shooting at the school. Every time some bored teenaged boy decides to shoot up a school, he messes things up for the folks that can handle a gun responsibly.
 
2009-11-22 08:08:20 AM  
Seth'n'Spectrum: Archie Goodwin: As someone who doesn't share the American genetic fascination with guns, even I have to say WTF?

Same here, except my high school did something similarly stupid: they would suspend students and take other disciplinary action if they caught you at local nightclubs.


Dude that's nothing, I got suspended for buying a Keno ticket.
It was only 1 day and it happened to be a Friday though, so I didn't mind.
 
2009-11-22 08:08:26 AM  
I believe the Principal is an idiot.
 
2009-11-22 08:08:33 AM  
p51d007: When I was in high school, back in the 70's...it was NOT uncommon to see 3/4 of the pick up trucks in the school parking lot with gun racks that had LOADED guns in them, 90% of the kids had buck knives on their belts, and a lot of "Skoal" can rings could be seen in the jean pockets of guys.
Bunch of panty-waste politically correct idiots running schools now.

I think we went to school together. You just got a new color!
 
2009-11-22 08:08:37 AM  
PonceAlyosha: ZAZ: Hopefully the federal gun free school zone law will be killed as a violation of the second amendment.

scent-sniffing dogs detected something in a pickup

Not something! Anything but something!

No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.


RTFA moran.

The truck (and guns) weren't on school property.
 
2009-11-22 08:09:12 AM  
I can hear the lawyers all over town going "ka-ching". By the time this whole thing is settled, Gary Tudesko and his parents will own the school board.

PonceAlyosha: No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.

You haven't lived in a big hunting area, have you? When I went to school, at least 1/2 the class skipped on the first day of hunting season. Besides, the guns were unloaded, stored in plain sight in a vehicle that was not even on school property. Also, other students were also found with ammo in their vehicles and went unpunished.
 
2009-11-22 08:10:54 AM  
PonceAlyosha:
The law should be changed to reflect common sense.


How would you change the law in this case?
 
2009-11-22 08:12:12 AM  
FTFA: "I'm erring on the safe side of protecting staff and kids," he said.

So "protecting staff and kids" means expelling the kids that don't present any threat to the staff and kids. Got it.

/Won't someone think of the staff and kids?!?
 
2009-11-22 08:12:29 AM  
PonceAlyosha, I sure hope ur just a troll and not really that stupid.

What's next? Suspension for having parents with misdemeanor records?

School suspensions for driving without a liscense?

Expulsions for failing to wipe your ass according to district guidelines.

WE WILL HAVE CONTROL!!!
 
2009-11-22 08:12:52 AM  
10 U.S.C. 311: More recent graduates need to see pro-bono cases like this as the huge opportunity they are.

Why should the grad do it pro-bono? The school board would on the hook for attorney's fees.
 
2009-11-22 08:14:50 AM  
Ron Mexico's Revenge: How would you change the law in this case?

Constitutional reform.

/if only
//goes back to his immigration forms
 
2009-11-22 08:16:24 AM  
PonceAlyosha:
No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.


Actually there was a rational reason. What is irrational is having police dogs searching vehicles off school property and then the rest that went on, which is what should not be condoned.
 
2009-11-22 08:16:43 AM  
When I was in school, school was closed for the first day of deer season. Otherwise no one would have showed up. Kids used to bring rifles and shotguns to school all the time. Those assholes Dylan and Eric and their copycats ruined it for everyone. And put me in the group who believes this will be quickly overturned. Someone get the ACLU on the phone!
 
2009-11-22 08:17:42 AM  
Fark It: And police sniffing dogs are the biggest load of bullshiat that law enforcement and their partners in crime, state's attorneys, have foisted on the American public. There are no K9 training standards, nor are there any regulations regarding what is and isn't a "hit." It literally comes down to: "Your honor, the dog told me there were drugs in the car!"

I've also seen cops say thing like a vein stood out on his neck.
 
2009-11-22 08:17:54 AM  
Nothing to see here citizen!
 
2009-11-22 08:18:55 AM  
WOW it makes me sad to think how far we have gone down the sewer. When I was a teenager back in the 1970's, our high school had a hunting club. We would bring our rifles and shotguns (unloaded) and show them off. We would learn hunting and safety tips and then go out on hunts together on the weekends.

Can you imagine the apoplectic fit the current bunch of pansies would have over something like that?
 
2009-11-22 08:21:46 AM  
More kids have been killed by cars than by shotguns...let outlaw teen drivers, and leave the 2d Amendment alone
 
2009-11-22 08:23:49 AM  
Unfortunately, the headmaster know this isn't right, but if he didn't The school does have legal grounds here. They are definitely acting appropriately under the doctrine of [i}loco parentis. Parking off campus while you are attending school is the exact same thing as parking on campus and anything you do while en route to school or a school function is subject to school regulations.

With only the knowledge we have, it would seem that the school board's reaction is over the top. However, all we know is what is reported in a blurb in a local news outlet and they don't do a very good job getting to the bottom of an issue. It may well be that they may have had problems with this boy that leads them to believe he may harm someone.

The sad part is that years back, especially in rural areas, it was common for boys to keep a shotgun in their trucks and no one thought anything of it. But in our sick society today, the precious little snowflake could be a serial killer about to go off.
 
2009-11-22 08:25:59 AM  
JustFark: PonceAlyosha:
No. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be bringing guns to a school. That's retarded, and no rational person would possibly believe such a thing should be condoned.

Actually there was a rational reason. What is irrational is having police dogs searching vehicles off school property and then the rest that went on, which is what should not be condoned.


I wonder how Ponce would feel if schools sent drug-sniffing dogs to his house to search students' private property.

Funny how the ACLU is really concerned about freedom of speech on campus but couldn't give a rats azz about other freedoms off campus where the school has no jurisdiction at all.
 
2009-11-22 08:27:17 AM  
As somebody who supports strong gun control (becuase it's damned effective, look at europe), I hope he sues their ass into the ground and pisses on top of them. That is nowhere close to legal. You would think that school boards, of all groups, being elected to deal with educatioal matters, would be comprised of members able to pass elementary school civics, but one would be wrong.

I would love to organize a group of constitutional lawyers and con law students to go around the country and just randomly assault members of stupid school boards.

Merely dreams, I know.


\BTW, farkinawesome, that Twain Quote is now saved to my list.
 
2009-11-22 08:29:10 AM  
I don't even go back to the seventies...My public high school had hunter safety training (along with boater safety, in phys. ed.) in 1988.

Of course, our elementary school also had bible class once a week...

/Northern Indiana
 
2009-11-22 08:30:58 AM  
Barakku: Thousands of people every year are not shot by unloaded firearms.

I am one of them!!!! I am a victim. Where's my money?!?!
 
2009-11-22 08:31:35 AM  
JackieRabbit: Unfortunately, the headmaster know this isn't right, but if he didn't The school does have legal grounds here. They are definitely acting appropriately under the doctrine of [i}loco parentis. Parking off campus while you are attending school is the exact same thing as parking on campus and anything you do while en route to school or a school function is subject to school regulations.

With only the knowledge we have, it would seem that the school board's reaction is over the top. However, all we know is what is reported in a blurb in a local news outlet and they don't do a very good job getting to the bottom of an issue. It may well be that they may have had problems with this boy that leads them to believe he may harm someone.

The sad part is that years back, especially in rural areas, it was common for boys to keep a shotgun in their trucks and no one thought anything of it. But in our sick society today, the precious little snowflake could be a serial killer about to go off.


Please tell me where in the US constitution it allows for you to contract away rights expressly awarded in the Constitution. In Loco parentis only works for things that are legal for a guardian to do. That does not include deprivation of basic rights.

Well, unless Scalia or his ilk are calling the shots.
 
2009-11-22 08:31:49 AM  
Does this "law" actually stop anyone from shooting up the school? No. All it does is ostracize a sizable portion of the student body- those who enjoy hunting as a safe and enjoyable hobby. I'm no psychologist, but I think being nice to people with guns, whenever possible, is a pretty damn good policy. Isolating and making an example of someone, especially a teenager, for a hobby, is asking for more angry teens.
 
2009-11-22 08:32:10 AM  
FTFA : Geivett said the school was responsible for students traveling to and from school as well as during lunch. He said he believed that students should not possess weapons within 1,000 feet of campus.

So if you live that close to a school, can you even have a legal, unloaded, safely stored gun in your house? This is nuts. I just checked Google Maps, and the end of our street is right at 1000 feet from the new elementary school being built in town. So if I still live here when my son is old enough to drive (more so when he's 18), he won't be able to go out hunting or to the range unless he drives out through my neighbor's yard?
Hell, any neighbor on the next street over probably shouldn't have guns and kids in the same house, I guess. I get that an 8 year old playing "cowboy" with daddy's Glock would be a problem, but this is phrased such that an empty shotgun in a safe with the ammo locked up elsewhere would be a violation.

Bunch of farking idiots.
 
2009-11-22 08:32:39 AM  
cptjeff: As somebody who supports strong gun control (becuase it's damned effective, look at europe)

Yeah, look how well that turned out in the first half of the century... Heck, look at how well it is turning out in California, Chicago, New York, etc.
 
2009-11-22 08:35:35 AM  
Man I wish I was young. Would be fun to buy a box of .22 ammo and go around the teachers and admin parking lot searching for unlocked cars. Open the cars, Throw shells in them and lock and close the door. Then anonymous tip for flavor.
 
2009-11-22 08:35:35 AM  
I don't have problem with police using a sniffer dog to find probable cause to allow a search of a vehicle.... however, this shiat is retarded.

As far as I could gather from the article (correct me if I am wrong, I haven't read any of this thread), there was nothing illegal in the car, so no reason to take it any further.
 
2009-11-22 08:36:27 AM  
My high school tried to tow my car because my mom parked in a "no student parking zone" one morning. Never mind the fact that I was already at school and my car was in my assigned space. They wrote her a ticket then two weeks later called Cooter out to drag my Jeep away. Good thing , too. The 4WD was already jacked up but he finished it off. Cooter and school split the cost of the repair.

Funny they didn't find the weed in the center console.
 
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