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(WWL)   Federal judge rules Army Corps of Engineers responsible, and liable, for much of the post-Katrina flooding in New Orleans   (wwl.com) divider line 338
    More: Interesting, Army Corps of Engineers, Katrina, corps, New Orleans, federal judge  
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9816 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2009 at 12:07 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-11-18 09:57:20 PM
You're farking kidding me. My experience with the Army Corps of Engineers is the exact opposite of this. "Shoddy"? Impossible.
 
2009-11-18 10:02:44 PM
Prime suspect from CoE (shown at left in undated photo) believed to have resigned from the Army to become a Chicago-area commercial airline navigator.

assets.sbnation.com
 
2009-11-18 10:11:13 PM
Good. Maybe they'll realize its too expensive to keep subsidizing people living in areas that will eventually flood, burn or be destroyed by hurricanes.
 
2009-11-18 10:26:40 PM
me texan: Good. Maybe they'll realize its too expensive to keep subsidizing people living in areas that will eventually flood, burn or be destroyed by hurricanes.

Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.
 
2009-11-18 10:28:06 PM
Occam's Chainsaw: Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.

Wall Street!
 
2009-11-18 10:58:00 PM
The Army Corps of Engineers forced people to build a coastal city below sea level? Those bastards!
 
2009-11-18 10:58:20 PM
Occam's Chainsaw: me texan: Good. Maybe they'll realize its too expensive to keep subsidizing people living in areas that will eventually flood, burn or be destroyed by hurricanes.

Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.


nice broad stroke there.

you've got it covered!
 
2009-11-18 11:03:20 PM
NewportBarGuy: Wall Street!

Hurricane about every 70 years. Snowstorms every year.
 
2009-11-18 11:12:15 PM
GAT_00: NewportBarGuy: Wall Street!

Hurricane about every 70 years. Snowstorms every year.


Hurricanes don't really have the power to fark up Wall Street. Snow storms... There's a really bad one every 5-10 years, but otherwise, it's manageable.
 
2009-11-18 11:14:58 PM
Sounds like New Orleans is in for one hell of a stimulus package.
 
2009-11-18 11:16:22 PM
deadapostle: Hurricanes don't really have the power to fark up Wall Street.

You should look up the 1938 New England Hurricane some time.
 
2009-11-18 11:18:13 PM
But but, Acorn...
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2009-11-18 11:33:47 PM
It was my understanding that the administration in power diverted about $100M earmarked for repairing and reinforcing the levees to the war in Iraq.

I could be wrong. I don't care that much, so don't flame me. Just sayin.

These lawsuits will never stand up, though.
 
2009-11-18 11:37:36 PM
GAT_00: Hurricane about every 70 years. Snowstorms every year.

I think you missed what I was going for. But, whatever. I'm more interested if someone trying to save money in the Corps budget just opened themselves up to prosecution for all the deaths.

If I'm remembering correctly, the Corps didn't get the funding they requested or that the City of New Orleans requested. It doesn't really matter, the government has 2 more appeals and I doubt a Judge higher up the food chain will let this stand.
 
2009-11-18 11:38:23 PM
FNG: It was my understanding that the administration in power diverted about $100M earmarked for repairing and reinforcing the levees to the war in Iraq.

I could be wrong. I don't care that much, so don't flame me. Just sayin.

These lawsuits will never stand up, though.


uhhhh.... Or This.
 
2009-11-18 11:40:00 PM
Occam's Chainsaw: Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.

zomg random shiat happens. You might have well said "Name any area that wont ever be hit by a meteor". You are splitting hairs and being purposefully obtuse.

I am not talking about randomness here. We have cities built in fire ecology adapted vegetation zones, below sea level and in areas that are affected by hurricanes almost ever year... its stupid to build there and its stupid to subsidize people too farking stupid to realize they live in a place that has an extreme likelihood of being destroyed every year.
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2009-11-18 11:43:01 PM
NewportBarGuy: If I'm remembering correctly, the Corps didn't get the funding they requested or that the City of New Orleans requested. It doesn't really matter, the government has 2 more appeals and I doubt a Judge higher up the food chain will let this stand.

You said it just as well as I did, if not better.
 
2009-11-18 11:44:14 PM
me texan: Good. Maybe they'll realize its too expensive to keep subsidizing people living in areas that will eventually flood, burn or be destroyed by hurricanes.

You're aware that most of New Orleans isn't under sea level, yes? OK good, just checking.
 
2009-11-18 11:47:19 PM
Hender: You're aware that most of New Orleans isn't under sea level, yes? OK good, just checking.

You are aware that the parts that flooded are below sea level and levee water level, arent you? Ok good, just checking.

Split moar hairs.
 
2009-11-19 12:02:30 AM
me texan: Hender: You're aware that most of New Orleans isn't under sea level, yes? OK good, just checking.

You are aware that the parts that flooded are below sea level and levee water level, arent you? Ok good, just checking.

Split moar hairs.


Totally. Those people deserved what they got for living in their houses. Living in their houses below sea level--what nerve! How dare they tempt fate like that!
 
2009-11-19 12:09:24 AM
Occam's Chainsaw: me texan: Good. Maybe they'll realize its too expensive to keep subsidizing people living in areas that will eventually flood, burn or be destroyed by hurricanes.

Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.


Morgantown, WV represent.
 
2009-11-19 12:09:38 AM
Federal Judge also kept them from building the flood barrier in 1976.
S.O.W.L bears the blame.

They got beat down to rebuild levees. Be happy Bonne Carre wasn't open.
 
2009-11-19 12:10:43 AM
Hender: Totally. Those people deserved what they got for living in their houses. Living in their houses below sea level--what nerve! How dare they tempt fate like that!

I know hindsight is ever-perfect, but it had to be pretty obvious that even a minimal amount of flooding would deluge New Orleans. Just like people on the coastline of Florida have to be aware that all it takes is one hurricane in the right place to destroy their home and all their property.

If you know you're in a precarious situation, why live there?
 
2009-11-19 12:13:09 AM
Ok, the levees weren't even built to the Army corp's specifications. They didn't go down deep enough, they ignored their own rules. The law suit won't stand, but everyone living in a levee protected area should know that the same thing could happen to them
 
2009-11-19 12:13:12 AM
Hender: me texan:

Totally. Those people deserved what they got for living in their houses. Living in their houses below sea level--what nerve! How dare they tempt fate like that!


Living in uninsured houses below sea level in a region that has to roll the dice several times every year on hurricanes? They may not "deserve" it per se, but they shouldn't have been too surprised when it came.
 
2009-11-19 12:16:18 AM
I was talking with a co-worker yesterday about how much it sucks that we have to see Michael "heck of a job, Brownie" Brown at our Denver studios now...
 
2009-11-19 12:16:24 AM
Government pointing figure at itself? hmm...doubt much other than lip service comes from this...would get more meaning full lip service from hooker.

/I blame the moon
 
2009-11-19 12:17:57 AM
Did that page crash FireFox for anyone else?
 
2009-11-19 12:18:14 AM
me texan: Hender: You're aware that most of New Orleans isn't under sea level, yes? OK good, just checking.

You are aware that the parts that flooded are below sea level and levee water level, arent you? Ok good, just checking.

Split moar hairs.


Uh. No, they arent.

75% of new orleans was flooded by 10 PM on august 29th. 5% at maximum is below sea level.

The MR-GO was never maintained, or even used. It was a HUGE open water canal that went from the River through marsh areas southeast of new orleans into the gulf.

It acted like a nice big funnel for St. Bernard and the Lower 9th.

The canal walls that breached were because of absolutely shoddy work on the part of the CoE and blatant ignorance. They had studies that showed the very type of levee that was built WOULD fail.

But keep up that meme, I'm sure it's working out great for you.

Maybe we'll just shut down Port Fourchon again. You know, since it's just waiting to get flooded again.
 
2009-11-19 12:20:02 AM
jagec: Hender: me texan:

Totally. Those people deserved what they got for living in their houses. Living in their houses below sea level--what nerve! How dare they tempt fate like that!

Living in uninsured houses below sea level in a region that has to roll the dice several times every year on hurricanes? They may not "deserve" it per se, but they shouldn't have been too surprised when it came.


Living in uninsured houses in an area below sea level run by a local government that diverts the federal funds for maintaining the levee system for other projects.
 
2009-11-19 12:20:28 AM
So we shouldn't live in places affected by hurricanes, huh geniuses? I hope you've got space there in your ideal little neighborhood, because the entire Eastern Seaboard is pulling up stakes and moving to your town.
 
2009-11-19 12:22:56 AM
Hender: Those people deserved what they got for living in their houses. Living in their houses below sea level--what nerve! How dare they tempt fate like that!

Well, my house in San Diego always has had a possible chance of being hit with an earthquake sometime in the future and if it is hit I deserve it. That is why I have that little thing called insurance and I don't need you to pay for my CHOICE of where I live. I know what my risks are and they definitely knew their risks - what with a hurricane season EVERY year...
 
2009-11-19 12:24:13 AM
Chariset: If you know you're in a precarious situation, why live there?

Because you're mired in poverty? Because it's the only home you've ever known? Because that's where you're employed? (The last one doesn't really keep you in one specific location, but it can keep you in a dangerous region, like SoCal or Tornado Alley.)

dlewis6: Morgantown, WV represent.

BZZZZT. The correct answer was Idaho.

/Seriously. Apparently there are parts of Idaho that have 200+ year intervals for historic incidences of dangerous natural events.
 
2009-11-19 12:24:19 AM
me texan: Since you seemt o be from Texas, then answer this: Would you also support clearing out Galveston, Padre Island, and most of the TX Gulf Coast? Obviously, those fools have it coming too - right?
 
2009-11-19 12:25:33 AM
Back to the drink.
/they're below see level.
//they're too stupid to realize it's an unsafe place.
 
2009-11-19 12:26:00 AM
I blame kids today.
 
2009-11-19 12:26:28 AM
Was disappointed to see the discussion lacking a link to a video of "When the Levee Breaks". I went out to get one, but then couldn't decide which. Classic Zep would have been good, but then there was the one with Neil Young at the Hall of Fame. Just when I was going with that, I realized there was a Robert Plant and Allison Kraus video... and she's pretty hot.

In the end, I decided to be lazy and say fark it.
 
2009-11-19 12:27:36 AM
halcyon thought: me texan: Hender: You're aware that most of New Orleans isn't under sea level, yes? OK good, just checking.

You are aware that the parts that flooded are below sea level and levee water level, arent you? Ok good, just checking.

Split moar hairs.

Uh. No, they arent.

75% of new orleans was flooded by 10 PM on august 29th. 5% at maximum is below sea level.

The MR-GO was never maintained, or even used. It was a HUGE open water canal that went from the River through marsh areas southeast of new orleans into the gulf.

It acted like a nice big funnel for St. Bernard and the Lower 9th.

The canal walls that breached were because of absolutely shoddy work on the part of the CoE and blatant ignorance. They had studies that showed the very type of levee that was built WOULD fail.

But keep up that meme, I'm sure it's working out great for you.

Maybe we'll just shut down Port Fourchon again. You know, since it's just waiting to get flooded again.


All of the above is why I got the fark out of Sacramento. It's another perfect storm waiting to happen.
 
2009-11-19 12:28:25 AM
For months (years?) the Army Corps of Engineers told New Orleans that the Levies were doomed to fail.

The City of New Orleans told them to fark off.

New Orleans should be responsible. I dunno who this judge is, but he should be whacked upside the head.
 
2009-11-19 12:30:36 AM
What chaps my tail on this is that...people who live in California realize that they have a liklihood of experiencing an earthquake. I live in Tornado country. I won't have shock and awe if my place gets leveled when a tornado decides to take it's tour of my street.

While I realize that the levees weren't built as the first line of defense they were supposed to be...but come ON! There HAS to be some degree of personal responsibility for one's choice to live in a geographic area and it's accompanying weather suckage.
 
2009-11-19 12:30:40 AM
me texan: Occam's Chainsaw: Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.

zomg random shiat happens. You might have well said "Name any area that wont ever be hit by a meteor". You are splitting hairs and being purposefully obtuse.

I am not talking about randomness here. We have cities built in fire ecology adapted vegetation zones, below sea level and in areas that are affected by hurricanes almost ever year... its stupid to build there and its stupid to subsidize people too farking stupid to realize they live in a place that has an extreme likelihood of being destroyed every year.


What city do you live in?
 
2009-11-19 12:32:01 AM
jake3988: For months (years?) the Army Corps of Engineers told New Orleans that the Levies were doomed to fail.

The City of New Orleans told them to fark off.


images1.fanpop.com
 
2009-11-19 12:32:18 AM
jake3988: For months (years?) the Army Corps of Engineers told New Orleans that the Levies were doomed to fail.

The City of New Orleans told them to fark off.

New Orleans should be responsible. I dunno who this judge is, but he should be whacked upside the head.


I know that it's often seen as criticism to say this, and I don't mean it as such, but do you have anything to back that up?
 
2009-11-19 12:32:45 AM
Occam's Chainsaw: me texan: Good. Maybe they'll realize its too expensive to keep subsidizing people living in areas that will eventually flood, burn or be destroyed by hurricanes.

Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.


You were kind of trolling but I will bite. You can also decrease the chances of such events by not living in higher than average severe storm areas. Plus it was proven over and over that the increase human levee building has had horrible consequences on the marsh area and not only the wildlife population but also having more land available to help cool down those hurricanes thus making them spin down faster. Since those marsh lands are being taken away hurricanes are being hurricanes continue to come over land and remain stronger longer. New Orleans should be flooded, a port should be the only thing left, and everybody should have to move up the mainland.
 
2009-11-19 12:32:50 AM
SkittlesAreYum: Did that page crash FireFox for anyone else?

There's an article?
 
2009-11-19 12:34:49 AM
I could have sworn it was the fault of whosoever bright idea it was to build a city below sea level...
 
2009-11-19 12:34:50 AM
Grand_Moff_Joseph: me texan: Since you seemt o be from Texas, then answer this: Would you also support clearing out Galveston, Padre Island, and most of the TX Gulf Coast? Obviously, those fools have it coming too - right?

People can live wherever they want.. I could care less. I just question the use of tax dollars for subsidizing rebuilding in the same damn place knowing full well that the likelihood of recurrence is close to 1.

"Your home is destroyed by a hurricane? Genuinely sorry to hear that it was and that you cant afford to rebuild or afford insurance. Here, let me help move you to a place less likely to be destroyed by the same thing."

Why is it wrong to do it that way?
 
2009-11-19 12:38:28 AM
DarthBrooks: Prime suspect from CoE (shown at left in undated photo) believed to have resigned from the Army to become a Chicago-area commercial airline navigator.

OK that was funny.
 
2009-11-19 12:40:07 AM
/rant on

Many local community & political leaders in Orleans & St. Bernard parishes had been trying for years before Katrina to close the "MR-GO" (the subject of the suit.) The Corps fought them tooth & nail, & denied that it was any threat at all.

After the levees failed after Katrina, the Corps admitted fault in the design, construction, and maintenance of the levees. And, they just recently finished closing off the MR-GO entirely.

Let's recap:

- New Orleans was not hit by Katrina. The Mississippi Gulf Coast bore the full brunt of the storm. New Orleans was side-swiped.

- Katrina was not a Cat-5 storm at landfall, it was a Cat-3. The effects in New Orleans were more like Cat-1, yet the levees failed.

- New Orleans' destruction was a man-made disaster. The destruction in other areas, like tremendous impact upon the MS Gulf Coast, was entirely an act of Mother Nature.

Yes, there's plenty of blame to go around at the local and state level when it came to evacuating people. And, the locals failed for not holding the Corps' feet to the fire to build truly worthy levees.

But this lawsuit just puts on paper what anyone who has paid attention to the issue knows: Shoddy work by the feds led to the flooding of New Orleans. Shoddy foresight by the locals contributed to the deaths of 1,700 people.

/rant off
 
2009-11-19 12:40:22 AM
Occam's Chainsaw: Name one area of the United States that is not affected by severe weather, seismic or volcanic events, or other natural disaster at least once every 50 years.

El Paso, Texas.
 
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