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(BBC)   Xenophon vs. Xenu   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 181
    More: Cool, Church of Scientology, Australia, Xenu, Nick Xenophon, freedom of religion, l ron hubbard, criminal organizations, totalitarian regimes  
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18855 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2009 at 9:54 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



181 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2009-11-18 09:01:22 AM
It's a start.
 
2009-11-18 09:45:23 AM
A Scientology statement said the allegations were "about as reliable as former spouses are when talking about their ex-partner".

That's a rather questionable analogy. Does he really want to go there?
 
2009-11-18 09:58:18 AM
Subby sounds like his Thetan levels are low.
 
2009-11-18 10:00:18 AM
Hopefully Scientology won't go Jonestown Link (new window). They're under investigation from a senator accused of imprisonment, torture, blackmail, and fraud.
 
2009-11-18 10:00:44 AM
Yeah probe em. Probe em long and hard and deep.. Oh yeah!
 
2009-11-18 10:01:23 AM
Yay! Scientology thread!
 
2009-11-18 10:02:57 AM
I'll start.

xo-whs.wikispaces.com

/hot like the plasma cannons of Xenu's mothership
 
2009-11-18 10:05:48 AM
What's really pathetic are minor Australian celebrities like Kate Cerberano converting to Scientology, like their career would get a boost and they had the money to spare anyway.
 
2009-11-18 10:06:03 AM
FTA: "The letters received by me which were written by former followers in Australia, contain extensive allegations of crimes and abuses which are truly shocking," he said, citing other letters from people who prefer to stay anonymous.

Well, that certainly sets Scientology apart from other religions.
 
2009-11-18 10:09:27 AM
Xenophon vs. Xenu, hands at 10 and 2, eyes straight ahead, no items, fox only, Final Destination.

May this be our Final Battle.
 
2009-11-18 10:10:27 AM
I'll reserve my opinion until I hear what Xenu's Giant Pink Replicock has to say about it.
 
2009-11-18 10:11:25 AM
moar x as z sounding words for everybody!!!

/xenon
//xenophobia
///xylophone
////xylem
//xanax (and a dozen other weird drug names)
 
2009-11-18 10:12:54 AM
Where do you come from if your last name is Xenophon? Mars?
 
2009-11-18 10:13:58 AM
Guy ends up dead in 5...4..3...2...
 
2009-11-18 10:15:16 AM
Shrinkwrap: Where do you come from if your last name is Xenophon? Mars?

Greece?
 
2009-11-18 10:15:44 AM
Shrinkwrap: Where do you come from if your last name is Xenophon? Mars?

He has no belly button. No navel. No traces of an umbilical connection to a larger politician.
 
2009-11-18 10:22:08 AM
It's worse than any other religion how?
 
2009-11-18 10:22:43 AM
www.spscriptorium.com
He's got balls. I like balls.
 
2009-11-18 10:24:41 AM
8ace: It's worse than any other religion how?

Oh God, not this tired discussion again.
 
2009-11-18 10:25:39 AM
img.dailymail.co.uk

What a Xenuphone might look like
 
2009-11-18 10:26:30 AM
divgradcurl: moar x as z sounding words for everybody!!!

/xenon
//xenophobia
///xylophone
////xylem
//xanax (and a dozen other weird drug names)


Xavier? Xanadu? Xerxes?
 
2009-11-18 10:26:38 AM
Senator needs Hero tag. 'Nuff said?
 
2009-11-18 10:27:04 AM
images.smh.com.au
VS.
counterknowledge.com



FTFA: "There is the public face of an organisation... that claims to offer guidance and support to its followers and there is the private face of an organisation that abuses its followers and viciously targets its critics, and seems largely driven by paranoia"

you know who else viciously targets its critics, and seems largely driven by paranoia...

/Crackheads?
//Vatican?
///GOP & DEMS?
 
2009-11-18 10:30:44 AM
Soumac: What a Xenuphone might look like

Ha!

Mugato: 8ace: It's worse than any other religion how?

Oh God, not this tired discussion again.


I'd say the tired part is pointing out how stupid scientology is more than all the other baseless, pointless religions
 
2009-11-18 10:35:36 AM
I might marry a guy for an awesome villain/superhero name like that.

/Mrs. Xenophon
//"TASTE MY WRATH!!! ... and try these cookies, it's a new recipe!"
 
2009-11-18 10:37:38 AM
8ace: Soumac: What a Xenuphone might look like

Ha!

Mugato: 8ace: It's worse than any other religion how?

Oh God, not this tired discussion again.

I'd say the tired part is pointing out how stupid scientology is more than all the other baseless, pointless religions


I know most of those discussions involve at least one troll, but I will say I give Scientology the same amount of legitimacy as the Mormon church. Meaning, none.
 
2009-11-18 10:39:59 AM
Subby is a bit off in this headline. I'd say Xenu would be backing Xenophon.

So..Hail Xenophon, chief minion of Xenu on Teegeeack! His service shall be rewarded with his own personal intergalactic DC-8.
 
2009-11-18 10:44:38 AM
Orgasmatron138: 8ace: Soumac: What a Xenuphone might look like

Ha!

Mugato: 8ace: It's worse than any other religion how?

Oh God, not this tired discussion again.

I'd say the tired part is pointing out how stupid scientology is more than all the other baseless, pointless religions

I know most of those discussions involve at least one troll, but I will say I give Scientology the same amount of legitimacy as the Mormon church. Meaning, none.


I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses
 
2009-11-18 10:44:52 AM
This is a win-win situation. If Nick Xenophon wins, we'll be rid of Scientology. If Scientology wins, we'll be rid of Nick Xenophon. Either way, the Australian people are better off.

(Before Fark starts: there is a difference between religions and cults; cults condition their members to break pre-existing relationships, while as anyone who's dealt with a born-again Christian knows, religions are all too happy to see you keep your friends and family.)
 
2009-11-18 10:46:29 AM
Xenophon vs Cyrus? Are you farking kidding me?
 
2009-11-18 10:47:23 AM
www.alicia-logic.com

It's a bug hunt.
 
2009-11-18 10:50:04 AM
LINK FARKED (Won't load for me at least!) Good job guys! ;P
 
2009-11-18 10:52:11 AM
Do Scientologists glow in he dark?
 
2009-11-18 10:56:00 AM
Define Statutory: Do Scientologists glow in... he dark?

FTFY
 
2009-11-18 10:58:53 AM
Merus: This is a win-win situation. If Nick Xenophon wins, we'll be rid of Scientology. If Scientology wins, we'll be rid of Nick Xenophon. Either way, the Australian people are better off.

(Before Fark starts: there is a difference between religions and cults; cults condition their members to break pre-existing relationships, while as anyone who's dealt with a born-again Christian knows, religions are all too happy to see you keep your friends and family.)


Modern religions desire the influx of new members.
Modern cults desire the influx of more money.

Sometimes the line is blurry between the two, since more members usually implies more money.
 
2009-11-18 11:03:17 AM
colatf: What's really pathetic are minor Australian celebrities like Kate Cerberano converting to Scientology, like their career would get a boost and they had the money to spare anyway.

Perhaps they will take Delta Goodrem away.
 
2009-11-18 11:07:01 AM
8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses


Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.
 
2009-11-18 11:10:04 AM
incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.


Which ironically makes him just as bad as the thing he hates.
 
2009-11-18 11:12:26 AM
svejker_14: divgradcurl: moar x as z sounding words for everybody!!!

/xenon
//xenophobia
///xylophone
////xylem
//xanax (and a dozen other weird drug names)

Xavier? Xanadu? Xerxes?


Xixor? Xenology? Xenomania?
 
2009-11-18 11:19:55 AM
incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.


Here here

Main Street

/pet peeve
 
2009-11-18 11:20:37 AM
I loved that game

free-game-downloads.mosw.com

/hot like the burning of alien spit
 
2009-11-18 11:24:57 AM
RanDomino: Xenophon vs Cyrus? Are you farking kidding me?

Anabasis 2: Australian Boogaloo
 
2009-11-18 11:28:21 AM
incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.



Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.

My invisible sky wizard is real. Your invisible sky wizard is not.

When you get down to it that is the crux of the argument.

The un-provable things I believe are REAL
The un-provable things you believe are CRAZY
 
2009-11-18 11:33:38 AM
img696.imageshack.us
 
2009-11-18 11:35:10 AM
HawgWild: svejker_14: divgradcurl: moar x as z sounding words for everybody!!!

/xenon
//xenophobia
///xylophone
////xylem
//xanax (and a dozen other weird drug names)

Xavier? Xanadu? Xerxes?

Xixor? Xenology? Xenomania?


Xena!
 
2009-11-18 11:38:54 AM
kindms: incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.


Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.

My invisible sky wizard is real. Your invisible sky wizard is not.

When you get down to it that is the crux of the argument.

The un-provable things I believe are REAL
The un-provable things you believe are CRAZY


I agree. My invisible sky wizard is not real.

I believe people believe in an invisible sky wizard. Scientologists believe in stupid stuff. Why do people of other religions point and laugh?
 
2009-11-18 11:44:49 AM
My buddy recently found "god", he found Jesus. Why did he find Jesus, the christian god? Location, that is the only reason the found the christian god.

Yes, he farked up badly, that's why a deity came into his life. Deities are reliable like that
 
2009-11-18 11:46:13 AM
8ace: I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Well for one thing, no other religion actually charges people to learn about it. They pass around the collection plate but they don't actually send you a bill. You can get a Bible for free anywhere and get all the information Christianity has to offer right there, bullshiat or not. With Scientology, that will cost you a few hundred thousand dollars.

Scientology has no God to worship, it's a self help scam technically turned into a religion for tax purposes, developed by a schlocky sci-fi author on a bar bet. It's like if Alcoholics Anonymous decided that it had the clout to get out of paying taxes and became a religion.

I'm not a big fan of organized religion but Scientology is not one of even the worst of them. Except maybe the Jehovas Witnesses.
 
2009-11-18 11:47:06 AM
8ace: I'd say the tired part is pointing out how stupid scientology is more than all the other baseless, pointless religions

The egregious aspect isn't the religion's myths; many religions have all sorts of outlandish stories. It's their mode of operation that sets them apart: mistreatment of members, harrassment of detractors, blackmail, etc.

Lutheran churches don't hire private investigators to dig up dirt on their critics.
Episcopalian churches don't imprison members.
etc.

People can believe whatever religious beliefs they wish to, but when a religious hierarchy consistently acts as a criminal organization, then yes, there's a reason to single them out for condemnation.
 
2009-11-18 11:50:06 AM
Isildur: 8ace: I'd say the tired part is pointing out how stupid scientology is more than all the other baseless, pointless religions

The egregious aspect isn't the religion's myths; many religions have all sorts of outlandish stories. It's their mode of operation that sets them apart: mistreatment of members, harrassment of detractors, blackmail, etc.

Lutheran churches don't hire private investigators to dig up dirt on their critics.
Episcopalian churches don't imprison members.
etc.


People can believe whatever religious beliefs they wish to, but when a religious hierarchy consistently acts as a criminal organization, then yes, there's a reason to single them out for condemnation.


Then I like those churches, now what about these christians?
 
2009-11-18 11:51:42 AM
Isildur: 8ace: I'd say the tired part is pointing out how stupid scientology is more than all the other baseless, pointless religions

The egregious aspect isn't the religion's myths; many religions have all sorts of outlandish stories. It's their mode of operation that sets them apart: mistreatment of members, harrassment of detractors, blackmail, etc.

Lutheran churches don't hire private investigators to dig up dirt on their critics.
Episcopalian churches don't imprison members.
etc.

People can believe whatever religious beliefs they wish to, but when a religious hierarchy consistently acts as a criminal organization, then yes, there's a reason to single them out for condemnation.


I am deliberately not taking the easy path on that one, btw
 
2009-11-18 11:56:52 AM
kindms:

Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.


You can be a complete atherist, and still recognize that mainstream rleigions are not the predatory harmful organization that Scienology is. Scientology is a recent, purposeful creation exclusively aimed to rip people off. If you can't tell the difference between that and a real religion (regardless of your personal beliefs or not)--you are a fanaical asshat, a relative to religous extremsists you hate yet echo in so many ways.
 
2009-11-18 11:57:16 AM
Mugato
You can get a Bible for free anywhere and get all the information Christianity has to offer right there, bullshiat or not.

The most important information about Christianity would be the context of its formation, which is not of any interest to even the most avid Christian. How many Christians (as Christians, and not as historians) even realize that the Gospels probably aren't eyewitness accounts? How many know about the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Why should they, they don't give a fark about truth or reality
 
2009-11-18 11:58:21 AM
kindms: incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.


Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.

My invisible sky wizard is real. Your invisible sky wizard is not.

When you get down to it that is the crux of the argument.

The un-provable things I believe are REAL
The un-provable things you believe are CRAZY


Hey guys can't you see a grape and a watermelon are the exact same thing! MAN THEY ARE BOTH FRUITS. It's mind blowing!

I can't believe STORES value 1 set of fruits more than another set of fruits. ITS CRAZY.

My invisible fruit is purple. Your invisible fruit is not.

When you get down to it that is the crux of the argument.

The tasty things I believe are PURPLE
The tasty things you believe are CRAZY
 
2009-11-18 12:00:21 PM
Thrashersk: kindms: incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.


Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.

My invisible sky wizard is real. Your invisible sky wizard is not.

When you get down to it that is the crux of the argument.

The un-provable things I believe are REAL
The un-provable things you believe are CRAZY

Hey guys can't you see a grape and a watermelon are the exact same thing! MAN THEY ARE BOTH FRUITS. It's mind blowing!

I can't believe STORES value 1 set of fruits more than another set of fruits. ITS CRAZY.

My invisible fruit is purple. Your invisible fruit is not.

When you get down to it that is the crux of the argument.

The tasty things I believe are PURPLE
The tasty things you believe are CRAZY


Damn it! Now I want fruit......
 
2009-11-18 12:03:36 PM
They LOVE the taste of crazy
 
2009-11-18 12:05:35 PM
RanDomino: The most important information about Christianity would be the context of its formation, which is not of any interest to even the most avid Christian. How many Christians (as Christians, and not as historians) even realize that the Gospels probably aren't eyewitness accounts? How many know about the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Why should they, they don't give a fark about truth or reality

I wasn't trying to address the validity of anything in the Bible or the Gospels. I was simply illustrating the difference between Scientolgy and other religions.
 
2009-11-18 12:09:58 PM
colatf: Actually Kate Cebrano was born into the church, she's like OT6 and her mums at least OT8. Check out the lyrics to some of her songs - ones like Brave are 100% about scientology.fark it, none of you will ever look it up you lazy bastards, so here ya go:

I could hear the calling, a million miles away
As my heart beats fills the silence, with words that I can't say
My mother used to tell me, girl time for you will come
And so I sit back and I hold tight, my time has now begun

Chorus:
And I won't ever walk away
I'll just be brave and stay
Hold me till the end
And in your arms I'll rise up high

I wait for tomorrow, remember yesterday
When I was scared of the darkness
And saying things I shouldn't say
But now my life has changed ooh
Just look what I've become
And so I sit back and I hold tight
My life has just begun

Repeat Chorus

Life has been fine as a child up till now
But I found I'm searching for something more
Love it has no reason, don't need none to survive
It's just a little flame in my heart, keep me burning bright

Repeat Chorus

Don't walk away (don't walk away)
Just be brave and stay (don't walk away)
Hold me till the end (don't walk away)
And in your arms I'll rise up high

Repeat ad nauseum
 
2009-11-18 12:10:16 PM
incrdbil: kindms:

Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.


You can be a complete atherist, and still recognize that mainstream rleigions are not the predatory harmful organization that Scienology is. Scientology is a recent, purposeful creation exclusively aimed to rip people off. If you can't tell the difference between that and a real religion (regardless of your personal beliefs or not)--you are a fanaical asshat, a relative to religous extremsists you hate yet echo in so many ways.


Actually. IMHO most religions are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all religions in their infancy to established I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Scientology and the rest.

Just because the Catholic church currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons.

All religions were at 1 time considered cults by the mainstream at the time.
 
2009-11-18 12:10:54 PM
Mugato: Well for one thing, no other religion actually charges people to learn about it. They pass around the collection plate but they don't actually send you a bill. You can get a Bible for free anywhere and get all the information Christianity has to offer right there, bullshiat or not. With Scientology, that will cost you a few hundred thousand dollars.

Actually, Scientology church services are free to attend. Most decent libraries have copies of Hubbard's books and getting them free or cheap at any used bookstore is not hard. You usually don't go around finding free Qurans, Guru Granth Sahibs, the Lotus Sutra or actual Tanakh's. Getting a Catholic Catechism is not free. Just because the Gideons pass around a shiatty 17th century translation of the New Testament for free in different colored jackets doesn't make any difference. If you want advanced training or ministerial credentials in any religion, you have to pay for it. Seminaries, Madrasses, and Yeshivas aren't free to attend either. If you're going to compare, you should try apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
 
2009-11-18 12:12:11 PM
Mugato: RanDomino: The most important information about Christianity would be the context of its formation, which is not of any interest to even the most avid Christian. How many Christians (as Christians, and not as historians) even realize that the Gospels probably aren't eyewitness accounts? How many know about the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Why should they, they don't give a fark about truth or reality

I wasn't trying to address the validity of anything in the Bible or the Gospels. I was simply illustrating the difference between Scientolgy and other religions.


And you did a terrible job of it, as others have pointed out.
 
2009-11-18 12:14:31 PM
If a scientologist lives his or her life as a nice person what is the problem? Jesus and Allah and the rest are sh*te, to be honest. Tom Cruise has explosions
 
rpm
2009-11-18 12:15:39 PM
kindms: Just because the Catholic church currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons.

FTFY.
 
2009-11-18 12:17:32 PM
Somacandra: And you did a terrible job of it, as others have pointed out

Elaborate.
 
2009-11-18 12:18:31 PM
The Xenophon is a pretty cool instrument.
 
2009-11-18 12:18:41 PM
Somacandra: Mugato: Well for one thing, no other religion actually charges people to learn about it. They pass around the collection plate but they don't actually send you a bill. You can get a Bible for free anywhere and get all the information Christianity has to offer right there, bullshiat or not. With Scientology, that will cost you a few hundred thousand dollars.

Actually, Scientology church services are free to attend. Most decent libraries have copies of Hubbard's books and getting them free or cheap at any used bookstore is not hard. You usually don't go around finding free Qurans, Guru Granth Sahibs, the Lotus Sutra or actual Tanakh's. Getting a Catholic Catechism is not free. Just because the Gideons pass around a shiatty 17th century translation of the New Testament for free in different colored jackets doesn't make any difference. If you want advanced training or ministerial credentials in any religion, you have to pay for it. Seminaries, Madrasses, and Yeshivas aren't free to attend either. If you're going to compare, you should try apples to apples, not apples to oranges.


Again with the damn fruit!
 
2009-11-18 12:20:59 PM
kindms: incrdbil: kindms:

Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.


You can be a complete atherist, and still recognize that mainstream rleigions are not the predatory harmful organization that Scienology is. Scientology is a recent, purposeful creation exclusively aimed to rip people off. If you can't tell the difference between that and a real religion (regardless of your personal beliefs or not)--you are a fanaical asshat, a relative to religous extremsists you hate yet echo in so many ways.

Actually. IMHO most religions are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all religions in their infancy to established I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Scientology and the rest.

Just because the Catholic church currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons.

All religions were at 1 time considered cults by the mainstream at the time.


You're wrong on so many points. People have pointed these points out by pointing but you refuse to be pointed towards the right point. I've decided to just replace everything you say with fruit metaphors.

IMHO most fruits are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all fruits in their infancy to establishment I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Apples and the rest.

Just because the apples currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons. You know the saying one bad apple ruins the tree because it doesn't fall very far.

All apples were at 1 time considered bananas by the mainstream at one time.
 
2009-11-18 12:23:32 PM
IMHO most fruits are predatory and harmful.

7. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

I didn't mean it like that though I swear.
 
2009-11-18 12:23:51 PM

Mugato
:
Somacandra: And you did a terrible job of it, as others have pointed out

Elaborate.




Mugato
:
Scientology has no God to worship, it's a self help scam technically turned into a religion for tax purposes, developed by a schlocky sci-fi author on a bar bet.

And any other religion is what?Mugato: They pass around the collection plate but they don't actually send you a bill.

Good for them. They send around a collection plate but don't ask you for any money
 
2009-11-18 12:24:40 PM
Allah akbar! my html is all messy
 
2009-11-18 12:27:26 PM
8ace: Good for them. They send around a collection plate but don't ask you for any money

There's a difference between "asking for money" and "requiring the payment of exorbitant sums in order to advance in the church."
 
2009-11-18 12:29:02 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: There's a difference between "asking for money" and "requiring the payment of exorbitant sums in order to advance in the church."

There is no difference between the two. There is also no difference between volunteering for the military and the draft. I can't believe how stupid you are you stupid face.
 
2009-11-18 12:29:58 PM
Soumac: What a Xenuphone might look like

2 handsets?

8ace: Define Statutory: Do Scientologists glow in... The dark?

FTFY


FTFBY

8ace: incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.

Here here

Main Street

/pet peeve


Mainstream

/pert pet plus peeve
 
2009-11-18 12:30:05 PM
8ace: Good for them. They send around a collection plate but don't ask you for any money

Yes they ask, not demand.

Are you people being deliberately obtuse?
 
2009-11-18 12:30:51 PM
How many know about the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Why should they, they don't give a fark about truth or reality

Utnapishtim is like an immortal Noah, until the snake steals the flower that gives him eternal life.
 
2009-11-18 12:32:08 PM
Thrashersk: There is no difference between the two. There is also no difference between volunteering for the military and the draft. I can't believe how stupid you are you stupid face.

To be fair, my face is actually very stupid.
 
2009-11-18 12:34:08 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: 8ace: Good for them. They send around a collection plate but don't ask you for any money

There's a difference between "asking for money" and "requiring the payment of exorbitant sums in order to advance in the church."


Yes there is. If your local (any denomination) church had only homeless and/or broke people popping through the door they would be gone. Small-mindeds GIVE exorbitant amounts to the the church, who in turn, pay no tax and give gratification only to people who would find it elsewhere if they weren't so lazy as to rely upon the church. I believe no gods exist. I believe anyone telling anyone so is either deluded or a scam artist. Hence scientology is equal to all other religions, according to me
 
2009-11-18 12:38:14 PM
either deluded or a scam artist.

THERE

Religion(catholics blahblahblah) is deluded and Cults(scientology) are scam artists. You do see a farking difference you just have your ignorant head shoved so far up you're stupid ass you can't see it.
 
2009-11-18 12:39:03 PM
And just because I use colorful language to express my point doesn't make me wrong. If you think it does then you are a racist.
 
2009-11-18 12:40:26 PM
Thrashersk: Wagnerian Omnibus: There's a difference between "asking for money" and "requiring the payment of exorbitant sums in order to advance in the church."

There is no difference between the two. There is also no difference between volunteering for the military and the draft. I can't believe how stupid you are you stupid face.


You were doing fine up until this.....now I smell a fruit troll...

/yes, we have no bananas
/we have no bananas today
 
2009-11-18 12:40:42 PM
Mugato: 8ace: Good for them. They send around a collection plate but don't ask you for any money

Yes they ask, not demand.

Are you people being deliberately obtuse?


Nope, i've been to church, Catholic church, as a child. Even then I got the impression of what people would say if you passed that bowl along without contributing. My Grandmother would give me money to put in it so as not to look bad. She used to give me two 50 pence pieces until she found I was pocketing one. I didn't see anyone on the row not put money in that bowl
 
2009-11-18 12:41:29 PM
Thrashersk: And just because I use colorful language to express my point doesn't make me wrong. If you think it does then you are a racist.

I have a friend who is white
 
2009-11-18 12:41:29 PM
8ace: 8ace:
Yes there is. If your local (any denomination) church had only homeless and/or broke people popping through the door they would be gone.


Well, that's simply not true at all.

Small-mindeds GIVE exorbitant amounts to the the church, who in turn, pay no tax and give gratification only to people who would find it elsewhere if they weren't so lazy as to rely upon the church. I believe no gods exist. I believe anyone telling anyone so is either deluded or a scam artist. Hence scientology is equal to all other religions, according to me

Your conclusion seems to be that scientology and all other religions have one thing in common, therefore they have all things in common. This is faulty logic.
 
2009-11-18 12:45:02 PM
Somacandra: Mugato: Well for one thing, no other religion actually charges people to learn about it. They pass around the collection plate but they don't actually send you a bill. You can get a Bible for free anywhere and get all the information Christianity has to offer right there, bullshiat or not. With Scientology, that will cost you a few hundred thousand dollars.

Actually, Scientology church services are free to attend. Most decent libraries have copies of Hubbard's books and getting them free or cheap at any used bookstore is not hard. You usually don't go around finding free Qurans, Guru Granth Sahibs, the Lotus Sutra or actual Tanakh's. Getting a Catholic Catechism is not free. Just because the Gideons pass around a shiatty 17th century translation of the New Testament for free in different colored jackets doesn't make any difference. If you want advanced training or ministerial credentials in any religion, you have to pay for it. Seminaries, Madrasses, and Yeshivas aren't free to attend either. If you're going to compare, you should try apples to apples, not apples to oranges.


Nice try. The "ministerial credentials" was good, but when you tried to sneak in "advanced training" you blew it. "Advanced training" in Episcopalianism?

Let me know when non-Scientology churches give you a price sheet for "pastoral counseling."
 
2009-11-18 12:46:50 PM
Alternative headline:
Scientology to be probed for allegations of "crimes and abuses which are truly shocking". No word yet on cases opening against Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism...
 
2009-11-18 12:48:31 PM
i.zdnet.com
Tom Cruise's Anabasis
 
2009-11-18 12:49:13 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: 8ace: 8ace:
Yes there is. If your local (any denomination) church had only homeless and/or broke people popping through the door they would be gone.

Well, that's simply not true at all.

Your local deity building only has homeless and broke people?

Small-mindeds GIVE exorbitant amounts to the the church, who in turn, pay no tax and give gratification only to people who would find it elsewhere if they weren't so lazy as to rely upon the church. I believe no gods exist. I believe anyone telling anyone so is either deluded or a scam artist. Hence scientology is equal to all other religions, according to me

Your conclusion seems to be that scientology and all other religions have one thing in common, therefore they have all things in common. This is faulty logic.


I believe the one thing in common is they follow a falsity. Religion helps some people, keeps them happy, keeps them on the straight and narrow. I have no problem with that but don't try farking telling one is more legitimate than another
 
2009-11-18 12:49:31 PM
On the topic of Scientology, what scares me the most is this: Recently I was in the library, and noticed that they have a nice, new shiny collection of L. Ron Hubbard books. Yes, the Scientology ones. I picked up a few, figuring they were good for a laugh. Boy, were they ever. Some of the stuff in there is comical to a sane person. Then I came across this gem. I encourage all of you to check this out, and see if we can squeeze an answer out of them...

From "The Creation of Human Ability", they describe the different steps of their auditing. In quite good detail, I might add. A lot of it is just repeating actions for hours at a time, and a lot of it seems geared towards brainwashing/mental conditioning. Some of these are several pages deep. Then, all of a sudden, on step R2-45, the description is "An enormously effective process for exteriorization but its use is frowned upon by society at this time."

I'm super curious as to what this actually entails.

Anyone have any idea?
 
2009-11-18 12:51:01 PM
kindms:

Actually. IMHO most religions are predatory and harmful. .


Yep, fanatic. 'Anyone who doesn't believe as I do is a menance', etc.
 
2009-11-18 12:51:37 PM
Thrashersk: kindms: incrdbil: kindms:

Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.


You can be a complete atherist, and still recognize that mainstream rleigions are not the predatory harmful organization that Scienology is. Scientology is a recent, purposeful creation exclusively aimed to rip people off. If you can't tell the difference between that and a real religion (regardless of your personal beliefs or not)--you are a fanaical asshat, a relative to religous extremsists you hate yet echo in so many ways.

Actually. IMHO most religions are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all religions in their infancy to established I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Scientology and the rest.

Just because the Catholic church currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons.

All religions were at 1 time considered cults by the mainstream at the time.

You're wrong on so many points. People have pointed these points out by pointing but you refuse to be pointed towards the right point. I've decided to just replace everything you say with fruit metaphors.

IMHO most fruits are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all fruits in their infancy to establishment I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Apples and the rest.

Just because the apples currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons. You know the saying one bad apple ruins the tree because it doesn't fall very far.

All apples were at 1 time considered bananas by the mainstream at one time.


www.keviemetal.com

What a predatory fruit might look like.

/Hot
 
2009-11-18 12:55:57 PM
Apoth: Anyone have any idea?

No, they don't. To suggest any human has any idea of what an all-powerful being who could create what they claim HE created, is ridiculous. Some ego with these people. HE created the universe and these people think they have any clue what HE is up to?
 
2009-11-18 01:00:35 PM
8ace: Apoth: Anyone have any idea?

No, they don't. To suggest any human has any idea of what an all-powerful being who could create what they claim HE created, is ridiculous. Some ego with these people. HE created the universe and these people think they have any clue what HE is up to?


Repeat for any religion
 
2009-11-18 01:01:58 PM
I've been disagreeing with 8ace this whole thread because I hate Scientology's guts. Then I remember that Blackwater is a Christian based organization run by Christian maniacs. Apples and oranges are different but both can be rotten.
Scientology is diffent mostly because it's still small enough that we can kill it.
 
2009-11-18 01:03:11 PM
8ace: 8ace: Your local deity building only has homeless and broke people?

You're moving the goal posts. Your argument was that homeless and/or broke people would not be welcome in any church, not this new argument you seem to be making, that "there are no churches which only welcome homeless and/or broke people."

I believe the one thing in common is they follow a falsity. Religion helps some people, keeps them happy, keeps them on the straight and narrow. I have no problem with that but don't try farking telling one is more legitimate than another

Fortunately for us both, then, I'm not telling you that. I'm not interested in comparing the "legitimacy" of different belief structures. I don't think it's possible, let alone productive. The differences between scientology and other major world religions are mainly in the areas of tactics and intent.

You are welcome to argue that believing in Xenu is just as arbitrary as believing in a Judeo-Christian God without any interference from me. But almost any attempt to equate the tactics and intent of these organizations will not hold up under scrutiny.
 
2009-11-18 01:06:07 PM
8ace, I just re-read your original "homeless/broke" argument and I misread it initially.
 
2009-11-18 01:07:07 PM
I agree with 8ace.

Just because something is "mainstream" doesn't make it any less ridiculous than something fringe. Just because a totally erroneous idea is held by many for a longer time, does not make it any more valid than a newer erroneous idea held by fewer. ALL religion of any kind is a at best a useless crutch and at worst deadly and malevolent.
 
2009-11-18 01:10:44 PM
Isildur: Lutheran churches don't hire private investigators to dig up dirt on their critics.

They don't have to. They have volunteers. Join one and see how long it takes for the nosey church basement ladies to show up to scope out your place.

Isildur: Episcopalian churches don't imprison members.

No, it just feels like prison.
 
2009-11-18 01:12:09 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: But almost any attempt to equate the tactics and intent of these organizations will not hold up under scrutiny.

Scrutinise away, old chap. What has scientology done that all other 'major' religion's "good books" condone? Murder? Do scientologists condone murder? I don't know. I'll bet a scientologist has murdered someone. Is it ok by their "rules"?
 
2009-11-18 01:12:19 PM
The SuperDevil is not impressed.
 
2009-11-18 01:14:25 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: 8ace, I just re-read your original "homeless/broke" argument and I misread it initially.

OK
 
2009-11-18 01:15:53 PM
What Xenophon may look like:

p9.secure.hostingprod.com
 
2009-11-18 01:16:46 PM
8ace: 8ace: Yes there is. If your local (any denomination) church had only homeless and/or broke people popping through the door they would be gone.

Let's do this again, now that I notice the word "only." First of all, that's not a claim that can have its legitimacy demonstrated. You don't know any more than I do whether your statement is necessarily true. Second, the implication that this proves that religion rejects the poor/broke is faulty.

Scientology *requires* adherents to virtually merge their bank accounts and lives with the church. It sets up a hierarchy whereby your contributions of time and funding determine (not simply aid) your spiritual advancement.

Don't mistake me for something I'm not; there are absolutely tons of areas in which criticism of organized religion is valid, especially when it comes to money, and I'm guessing that you and I would agree on most of them. But even the church falls short of the audacity of scientology in this area and others too numerous to mention.
 
2009-11-18 01:17:15 PM
I actually came into this thread thinking someone was applying Xenophon's doctrines to fight Scientology.


/I am disappoint
 
2009-11-18 01:20:01 PM
8ace: It's worse than any other religion how?

Beeecause any other religion doesn't do that?
 
2009-11-18 01:20:46 PM
8ace: I am deliberately not taking the easy path on that one, btw

Yeah yeah, I thought of that as I writing my post. There's a reason I didn't use the Catholic Church as an example. In those cases, the same applies; those responsible for covering-up for the molestation, and the people who knew about it (however far up the ladder as that went) deserve condemnation and prosecution. The same goes for any other instances of collusion in criminal matters by religious figures of any religion.
 
2009-11-18 01:22:03 PM
Hey, if he can get his men back from Persia, then this should be no problem...
 
2009-11-18 01:23:07 PM
But other religions won't give you a free stress test...
 
2009-11-18 01:24:04 PM
holybull99: I agree with 8ace.

Just because something is "mainstream" doesn't make it any less ridiculous than something fringe. Just because a totally erroneous idea is held by many for a longer time, does not make it any more valid than a newer erroneous idea held by fewer. ALL religion of any kind is a at best a useless crutch and at worst deadly and malevolent.


Hey , If thats what you want to believe: now apply a rational standard, and you'll see most religions should fall into your 'crutch' category, but Scientology falsl definitely in the deadly and malevolent category.
 
2009-11-18 01:28:18 PM
Came to the thread hoping to hear from our resident apologists and leaving quite satisfied.
 
2009-11-18 01:28:48 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: 8ace: 8ace: Yes there is. If your local (any denomination) church had only homeless and/or broke people popping through the door they would be gone.

Let's do this again, now that I notice the word "only." First of all, that's not a claim that can have its legitimacy demonstrated. You don't know any more than I do whether your statement is necessarily true. Second, the implication that this proves that religion rejects the poor/broke is faulty.

Scientology *requires* adherents to virtually merge their bank accounts and lives with the church. It sets up a hierarchy whereby your contributions of time and funding determine (not simply aid) your spiritual advancement.

Don't mistake me for something I'm not; there are absolutely tons of areas in which criticism of organized religion is valid, especially when it comes to money, and I'm guessing that you and I would agree on most of them. But even the church falls short of the audacity of scientology in this area and others too numerous to mention.


You may disagree but I think I answered this in the donation bowl comment. Most religions help people but would not survive without donations. Obvious. Every mainstream religion is now a business, with the helping people part as well. Audacity? At least the scientologists are honest, they give the church a load of money to feel better about themselves. If you are the sort of person who feels better by having a deity (NTTAWWT), do what your holy building asks of you.

I'll be here living my life according to what my family deserves
 
2009-11-18 01:30:02 PM
8ace: Wagnerian Omnibus: But almost any attempt to equate the tactics and intent of these organizations will not hold up under scrutiny.

Scrutinise away, old chap. What has scientology done that all other 'major' religion's "good books" condone? Murder? Do scientologists condone murder? I don't know. I'll bet a scientologist has murdered someone. Is it ok by their "rules"?


Scrutinise away, old chap. What has kiwi done that all other 'major' fruit's "nutrition label" condone? Murder? Do kiwi's condone murder? I don't know. I'll bet a kiwi has murdered someone. Is it ok by their "rules"?
 
2009-11-18 01:32:45 PM
Most religions help people but would not survive without donations. Obvious. Every mainstream religion is now a business, with the helping people part as well.

WHOA WHOA WHOA.

Jump in logic.

How did you get from "religions can't survive without money" to "religion is now a business".

I can't survive without fruit that doesn't mean I'm a homosexual.
 
2009-11-18 01:35:22 PM
I can't survive without fruit that doesn't mean I'm a homosexual.

Already used that one.

I can't survive without fruit that doesn't mean I'm a illegal alien working for Sequoia.
 
2009-11-18 01:37:47 PM
8ace: Scrutinise away, old chap. What has scientology done that all other 'major' religion's "good books" condone? Murder? Do scientologists condone murder? I don't know. I'll bet a scientologist has murdered someone. Is it ok by their "rules"?

I'm a little confused by your argument, but I don't think I'm trying to draw a distinction between specific core principles. Basically, I'm disagreeing with what seems to be an absolutist argument on your part.

Let's use murder, or causing physical harm to others, as a baseline, since you mention it. Scientology's "fair game law" is considered to remain part of the core values of scientology. It justifies the use of harassment by physical or legal means intended to destroy those identified as enemies of the religion, including disaffected former members and/or outspoken public critics.

Before you jump in, yes, in the past, other organized religions have also attempted to rationalize aggression and direct physical harm towards their perceived enemies. So have governments and virtually any large, powerful organizations commanding the hearts and minds of large numbers of people. However, this principle no longer remains a core value of all sects of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. While human nature doesn't change and the desire to abuse power to suppress criticism still likely exists within the ranks, and occasionally becomes organized and effected (see: radical Islam), it's not a central and necessary codified value in these loose organizations as it is in scientology.

Whereas in major organized religions you would be required to generalize beyond the boundaries of fairness to apply this criticism, you would not have to do so with scientology, which holds this principle as a core value.
 
2009-11-18 01:37:57 PM
8ace: Wagnerian Omnibus: But almost any attempt to equate the tactics and intent of these organizations will not hold up under scrutiny.

Scrutinise away, old chap. What has scientology done that all other 'major' religion's "good books" condone? Murder? Do scientologists condone murder? I don't know. I'll bet a scientologist has murdered someone. Is it ok by their "rules"?


Now, I may be going out on a limb here, but one of the tenets of scientology (from the previously mentioned books I read): Tenet #4 is "To deter to the fullest extent of my power anyone misusing or degrading Scientology to harmful ends.", so I would assume violence falls under allowable actions.
 
2009-11-18 01:40:57 PM
Apoth: 8ace: Wagnerian Omnibus: But almost any attempt to equate the tactics and intent of these organizations will not hold up under scrutiny.

Scrutinise away, old chap. What has scientology done that all other 'major' religion's "good books" condone? Murder? Do scientologists condone murder? I don't know. I'll bet a scientologist has murdered someone. Is it ok by their "rules"?

Now, I may be going out on a limb here, but one of the tenets of scientology (from the previously mentioned books I read): Tenet #4 is "To deter to the fullest extent of my power anyone misusing or degrading Scientology to harmful ends.", so I would assume violence falls under allowable actions.


Gotcha by 10 seconds.
 
2009-11-18 01:41:01 PM
img.neoseeker.com

Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.

/Hotlinked
//Not Sparkly
 
2009-11-18 01:43:07 PM
Yay go Australia! You show 'em.
Still, got to admit that Hubbard was kind of a genius*, such a simple idea carried out with such chutzpah.

/*The evil kind to be specific.
 
2009-11-18 01:49:15 PM
8ace: You may disagree but I think I answered this in the donation bowl comment. Most religions help people but would not survive without donations. Obvious. Every mainstream religion is now a business, with the helping people part as well. Audacity? At least the scientologists are honest, they give the church a load of money to feel better about themselves.

It's a big jump from "religion requires money to operate" to "religion demands money to legitimize faith." The latter is easily and demonstrably applied to scientology. You have to really generalize and contort your argument in order to get this statement to fit all major organized religion.

If you are the sort of person who feels better by having a deity (NTTAWWT), do what your holy building asks of you.

I'm not religious at all, nor do I have any supernatural belief structure outside of any religion. Not that it should matter.
 
2009-11-18 01:52:57 PM
Thrashersk: kindms: incrdbil: kindms:

Actually it just makes YOU a person who values 1 set of myths more than another set of myths.


You can be a complete atherist, and still recognize that mainstream rleigions are not the predatory harmful organization that Scienology is. Scientology is a recent, purposeful creation exclusively aimed to rip people off. If you can't tell the difference between that and a real religion (regardless of your personal beliefs or not)--you are a fanaical asshat, a relative to religous extremsists you hate yet echo in so many ways.

Actually. IMHO most religions are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all religions in their infancy to established I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Scientology and the rest.

Just because the Catholic church currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons.

All religions were at 1 time considered cults by the mainstream at the time.


You're wrong on so many points. People have pointed these points out by pointing but you refuse to be pointed towards the right point. I've decided to just replace everything you say with fruit metaphors.

IMHO most fruits are predatory and harmful. If we were to examine early stages of all fruits in their infancy to establishment I bet there would be a lot of similarities between Apples and the rest.

Just because the apples currently doesn't practice burning at the stake, selling indulgences etc etc does not make them any better. It just means they learned their lessons. You know the saying one bad apple ruins the tree because it doesn't fall very far.

All apples were at 1 time considered bananas by the mainstream at one time.


Just gotta throw this out there...



"A point in every direction is the same as no point at all." ~ Harry Nilsson 1971

/gonna go play triangle toss with my arrow now. :)
 
2009-11-18 01:58:22 PM
FiatJustitia: I actually came into this thread thinking someone was applying Xenophon's doctrines to fight Scientology.


/I am disappoint



Me too. Some Socratic pwnage of scientology and spiritual snakeoil-ism in general is most certainly in order!
 
2009-11-18 01:58:23 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus:

Gotcha by 10 seconds.


*Shakes fist*
 
2009-11-18 02:00:56 PM
8ace: Apoth: Anyone have any idea?

No, they don't. To suggest any human has any idea of what an all-powerful being who could create what they claim HE created, is ridiculous. Some ego with these people. HE created the universe and these people think they have any clue what HE is up to?


You just got trolled, bro. Scientologists know exactly was that is:

It's shooting someone in the head with a colt 45 handgun.
 
2009-11-18 02:08:44 PM
holybull99: I agree with 8ace.

Just because something is "mainstream" doesn't make it any less ridiculous than something fringe. Just because a totally erroneous idea is held by many for a longer time, does not make it any more valid than a newer erroneous idea held by fewer. ALL religion of any kind is a at best a useless crutch and at worst deadly and malevolent.


i296.photobucket.com

"Bob" is not the answer.

Neither is anything else.
 
2009-11-18 02:11:14 PM
If you're considering taking the Church of Scientology up on their offer of a free IQ test I can save you the time and effort and tell you what it is WITHOUT A TEST.
 
2009-11-18 02:13:23 PM
FTFA Given religion status in many countries, it enjoys tax-free privileges - but revelations from former followers have sparked huge legal battles in Europe where in several countries it is deemed a sect, not a religion.

Wait, isn't a sect a religious institution that has branched-off from an earlier religion? Xenu's legend comes from nothing but the mind of a science fiction author, not from the doctrines of a pre-existing religion. Is this an innocent misspeak or are they actually trying to avoid using the appropriate word "cult"?
 
2009-11-18 02:14:50 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: FTFA Given religion status in many countries, it enjoys tax-free privileges - but revelations from former followers have sparked huge legal battles in Europe where in several countries it is deemed a sect, not a religion.

Wait, isn't a sect a religious institution that has branched-off from an earlier religion? Xenu's legend comes from nothing but the mind of a science fiction author, not from the doctrines of a pre-existing religion. Is this an innocent misspeak or are they actually trying to avoid using the appropriate word "cult"?


Given enough time, how will this 'sect' differ from any other?

Your beliefs + thousands of years = someone else's 'myths'
 
2009-11-18 02:20:09 PM
scalpod: If you're considering taking the Church of Scientology up on their offer of a free IQ test I can save you the time and effort and tell you what it is WITHOUT A TEST.

i just want to get my hands on one of those readers so i can take it aparet in front of the people administrating the test

if i feel like it i may tell them why it doesn't work
 
2009-11-18 02:21:55 PM
scalpod: Given enough time, how will this 'sect' differ from any other?

Your beliefs + thousands of years = someone else's 'myths'


It's really a semantic point I'm trying to make, meant to highlight some hypocrisy.

From what I understand a "sect" is the product of a religious schizm.

This is not the case with Scientology so it is either a mistake or deliberate deception to avoid the negative connotations that are implied by the appropriate label: "cult".
 
2009-11-18 02:24:09 PM
karlo: 8ace: Apoth: Anyone have any idea?

No, they don't. To suggest any human has any idea of what an all-powerful being who could create what they claim HE created, is ridiculous. Some ego with these people. HE created the universe and these people think they have any clue what HE is up to?

You just got trolled, bro. Scientologists know exactly was that is:

It's shooting someone in the head with a colt 45 handgun.


While I find the possibility of your answer comical, I take offense to being called a troll, sir. (or madam, whiever you prefer) He actually just took it out of context, I meant does anyone know what that step consists of. And you came up with the first answer.

/A plausible one at that!
 
2009-11-18 02:32:34 PM
scalpod: Given enough time, how will this 'sect' differ from any other?

I won't be alive in a thousands years so your argument is stupid.
 
2009-11-18 02:46:55 PM
Thrashersk: I won't be alive in a thousands years so your argument is stupid.

By then all the fruit will be rotten anyway.
 
2009-11-18 02:59:58 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: It's really a semantic point I'm trying to make, meant to highlight some hypocrisy.

From what I understand a "sect" is the product of a religious schizm.

This is not the case with Scientology so it is either a mistake or deliberate deception to avoid the negative connotations that are implied by the appropriate label: "cult"


I agree that would be the appropriate label, but the BBC is trying to communicate what other countries call it, not what it is. The countries in question are mostly non-English speaking, so translation is an issue.
 
2009-11-18 03:07:15 PM
Somacandra: Actually, Scientology church services are free to attend. Most decent libraries have copies of Hubbard's books and getting them free or cheap at any used bookstore is not hard. You usually don't go around finding free Qurans, Guru Granth Sahibs, the Lotus Sutra or actual Tanakh's. Getting a Catholic Catechism is not free. Just because the Gideons pass around a shiatty 17th century translation of the New Testament for free in different colored jackets doesn't make any difference. If you want advanced training or ministerial credentials in any religion, you have to pay for it.

Here's a difference:

Scientologists get to write off the costs of their "religious training" on their taxes. No other "religious group" gets to do that.

And that's only because of a massive wave of lawsuits filed against the IRS in every state and $cientology digging up the dirt on the then-directors of the IRS.

Google Skalr v. IRS for information on this.
 
2009-11-18 03:07:48 PM
colatf: What's really pathetic are minor Australian celebrities like Kate Cerberano converting to Scientology, like their career would get a boost and they had the money to spare anyway.

Actually Kate Cebrano was brought up as a Scientologist as her grandmother was in the 'church' and was Hubbard's governess. That makes her third generation scientologist.

....It's sad the only wins I can get is on knowledge of Scientology and celebrities who are into it. But I'll take a win wherever I can get it.
 
2009-11-18 03:11:19 PM
...funny, I just started reading Xenophon's Anabasis.
 
2009-11-18 03:16:14 PM
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Has anyone heard of scientology doing anything with its money except for maybe using it to sue people for more money and pay itself?

What has scientology done that can be seen as selfless and charitable?


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 
2009-11-18 03:27:30 PM
Raharu: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Has anyone heard of scientology doing anything with its money except for maybe using it to sue people for more money and pay itself?

What has scientology done that can be seen as selfless and charitable?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


How is your obnoxiously formatted (dude, you've been here long enough to know the protocol) question relevant?

Selflessness and charitability are not necessary conditions for religion.
 
2009-11-18 03:31:06 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: scalpod: Given enough time, how will this 'sect' differ from any other?

Your beliefs + thousands of years = someone else's 'myths'

It's really a semantic point I'm trying to make, meant to highlight some hypocrisy.

From what I understand a "sect" is the product of a religious schizm.

This is not the case with Scientology so it is either a mistake or deliberate deception to avoid the negative connotations that are implied by the appropriate label: "cult".


Oh, I understand what you're getting at and as someone who joined a Texas UFO death cult I'm getting a kick out of your replies.
 
2009-11-18 03:33:11 PM
Thrashersk: scalpod: Given enough time, how will this 'sect' differ from any other?

I won't be alive in a thousands years so your argument is stupid.


Nobody walks around fretting about whether or not they offend anyone when they make fun of the Greek gods, so no, it isn't. You just completely missed my point.
 
2009-11-18 03:38:31 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: Raharu: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Has anyone heard of scientology doing anything with its money except for maybe using it to sue people for more money and pay itself?

What has scientology done that can be seen as selfless and charitable?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

How is your obnoxiously formatted (dude, you've been here long enough to know the protocol) question relevant?

Selflessness and charitability are not necessary conditions for religion.


I was just wondering if anyone has ever seen $cientology do anything good. I mean I hear some positive things about the catholic church from time to time, but never it seems anything positive about $cientology.

Also sorry for the way I formatted that, I just though it was a good point to bring up.
 
2009-11-18 03:42:47 PM
scalpod: Oh, I understand what you're getting at and as someone who joined a Texas UFO death cult I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

Please let you not be kidding! :) I've always wanted to meet one of those!
 
2009-11-18 03:48:32 PM
Raharu: I was just wondering if anyone has ever seen $cientology do anything good. I mean I hear some positive things about the catholic church from time to time, but never it seems anything positive about $cientology.

Also sorry for the way I formatted that, I just though it was a good point to bring up.


Ok, I think I understand your question now. Basically I think they'd argue that their value lies in helping the individual to improve themselves. It's essentially a fundamentally individualist incarnation of religion. I'd say a lot of Scientologists are probably Randian Objectivists too (and, yes, I'm aware that Rand idiot was an atheist).
 
2009-11-18 04:04:14 PM
Xenophon vs. Xenu vs. Omarion would be better.

/Tonight on 'the Epilogue'
 
2009-11-18 04:04:38 PM
8ace: incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.

Here here

Main Street

/pet peeve


....Did you just respond to yourself?

/scilon detected
 
2009-11-18 04:19:13 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: So have governments and virtually any large, powerful organizations commanding the hearts and minds of large numbers of people. However, this principle no longer remains a core value of all sects of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

I think it does. I believe it does. I have faith that it does
 
2009-11-18 04:36:49 PM
8ace: Wagnerian Omnibus: So have governments and virtually any large, powerful organizations commanding the hearts and minds of large numbers of people. However, this principle no longer remains a core value of all sects of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

I think it does. I believe it does. I have faith that it does


You think that all branches of organized religion have as a core value the defamation and destruction of those who criticize them? If so, that's paranoid, conspiracy theory-level stuff.
 
2009-11-18 04:42:39 PM
Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit. When your assailant lunges at you with a passion fruit...
 
2009-11-18 04:47:45 PM
We done the passion fruit.
 
2009-11-18 05:03:34 PM
Wagnerian Omnibus: You think that all branches of organized religion have as a core value the defamation and destruction of those who criticize them? If so, that's paranoid, conspiracy theory-level stuff.

No, I think they want money. I honestly don't believe any religion is out to "save" anyone. Why would I think that? There's no one directing them to do so. I can love mankind without a pretty good, centuries old author telling me to.
 
2009-11-18 05:06:36 PM
authors/writers/comedians
 
2009-11-18 05:16:33 PM
No, I think they want money. I honestly don't believe any mango is out to "save" anyone. Why would Pineapples think that? There's no one directing them to do so. Pineapples can love fruitkind without a pretty good, centuries old mango telling me to.
 
2009-11-18 05:17:58 PM
Thrashersk: No, I think they want money. I honestly don't believe any mango is out to "save" anyone. Why would Pineapples think that? There's no one directing them to do so. Pineapples can love fruitkind without a pretty good, centuries old mango telling me to.

That, people, is comedy. Keep going. No, keep going
 
2009-11-18 05:35:50 PM
scalpod: Oh, I understand what you're getting at and as someone who joined a Texas UFO death cult I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

that explains everything.

/for some people, some things never change.
 
2009-11-18 05:43:42 PM
kerpal32: scalpod: Oh, I understand what you're getting at and as someone who joined a Texas UFO death cult I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

that explains everything.

/for some people, some things never change.


Your replies reveal just as much about yourself dear, now get back to stargazing and quit riling up the zealots.

/smoochies
 
2009-11-18 05:53:04 PM
scalpod: kerpal32: scalpod: Oh, I understand what you're getting at and as someone who joined a Texas UFO death cult I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

that explains everything.

/for some people, some things never change.

Your replies reveal just as much about yourself dear, now get back to stargazing and quit riling up the zealots.

/smoochies


what? that I think you gave up one cult for another?

/reveals nothing about me but you're pretty farking funny.
//smoochies and slashies. thanks for the projection.
 
2009-11-18 06:03:06 PM
scalpod: holybull99: I agree with 8ace.

Just because something is "mainstream" doesn't make it any less ridiculous than something fringe. Just because a totally erroneous idea is held by many for a longer time, does not make it any more valid than a newer erroneous idea held by fewer. ALL religion of any kind is a at best a useless crutch and at worst deadly and malevolent.



"Bob" is not the answer.

Neither is anything else.


I thought liquor was the answer. :(
 
2009-11-18 06:06:32 PM
mad_prophet_tx: I thought liquor was the answer. :(

I only heard it's quicker, not the answer.
 
2009-11-18 06:06:50 PM
"organized belief systems which fail to adapt to changing ways are demoted from religions to acknowledged metaphoric myth systems. I mean, no one worships Odin anymore, or Zeus"
 
2009-11-18 06:21:20 PM
8ace: No, I think they want money. I honestly don't believe any religion is out to "save" anyone. Why would I think that? There's no one directing them to do so. I can love mankind without a pretty good, centuries old author telling me to.

I certainly agree that combining organized religion with money inevitably leads to religion being compromised to some extent. That said, I do believe that despite how compromised they are in many respects, since they don't focus on cash legitimizing faith, people of all positions at least have the option to take from religion what they wish. In contrast, at its higher levels, scientology is a cynical cult that exists solely for the sake of raising capital to sustain and enrich its inner circle, with no regard whatsoever to those it exploits. There are no options for a cult follower, no self-direction, just fundamentalism.

Anyway, I think we've both had our say here. If I have it right,you seem to think that all organized religion conforms to my description of scientology above. Personally I think that's both implausible and highly cynical, but I certainly don't expect to talk you out of it.
 
2009-11-18 06:28:59 PM
kerpal32: scalpod: kerpal32: scalpod: Oh, I understand what you're getting at and as someone who joined a Texas UFO death cult I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

that explains everything.

/for some people, some things never change.

Your replies reveal just as much about yourself dear, now get back to stargazing and quit riling up the zealots.

/smoochies

what? that I think you gave up one cult for another?

/reveals nothing about me but you're pretty farking funny.
//smoochies and slashies. thanks for the projection.


As I said, your posts reveal volumes about what you do and do not know.

Look everyone! kerpal32 is making fun of me for joining a SATIRICAL RELIGION. I'm sorry, I guess I just never realized "F*ck 'em if they can't take a joke!" ever stopped being true?

Project this, you ninnie. You're one the biggest pinkboys I've ever had the displeasure of being peripherally aware of and when X-day comes you can rest assured yours will be one of the first asses up against the proverbial wall for being such a normal, completely predictable, boring know-nothing.

Oh wait, I guess you won't because none of it's real? OH MY GOD Y'ALL, I JUST REALIZED MY FAKE "BELIEFS" AREN'T ACTUALLY REAL!

Blessings upon you kerpal32 for showing me the error of my ways.
 
2009-11-18 06:32:52 PM
scalpod: As I said, your posts reveal volumes about what you do and do not know.

no, but yours do....


Look everyone! kerpal32 is making fun of me for joining a SATIRICAL RELIGION. I'm sorry, I guess I just never realized "F*ck 'em if they can't take a joke!" ever stopped being true?

Project this, you ninnie. You're one the biggest pinkboys I've ever had the displeasure of being peripherally aware of and when X-day comes you can rest assured yours will be one of the first asses up against the proverbial wall for being such a normal, completely predictable, boring know-nothing.

Oh wait, I guess you won't because none of it's real? OH MY GOD Y'ALL, I JUST REALIZED MY FAKE "BELIEFS" AREN'T ACTUALLY REAL!

Blessings upon you kerpal32 for showing me the error of my ways.



oh there's probably some truth in your posts. your posts reveal volumes about what you do and do not knowadmit.

/I think you gave up one cult for another
//smoochies.
 
2009-11-18 06:34:51 PM
Stuff Scientology doesn't want you to know. Google will say that this is an "attack" site, meaning Scientology doesn't like it.

Scientology Casualty List (new window)

Scientology Criminals List (new window)

Scientology Domain Name List (new window)
 
2009-11-18 06:42:33 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2009-11-18 06:45:48 PM
Apoth: Then, all of a sudden, on step R2-45, the description is "An enormously effective process for exteriorization but its use is frowned upon by society at this time."

I'm super curious as to what this actually entails.

Anyone have any idea?


Google has turned up a Wiki article for you. (new window)
 
2009-11-18 06:51:33 PM
kerpal32: scalpod: As I said, your posts reveal volumes about what you do and do not know.

no, but yours do....


Look everyone! kerpal32 is making fun of me for joining a SATIRICAL RELIGION. I'm sorry, I guess I just never realized "F*ck 'em if they can't take a joke!" ever stopped being true?

Project this, you ninnie. You're one the biggest pinkboys I've ever had the displeasure of being peripherally aware of and when X-day comes you can rest assured yours will be one of the first asses up against the proverbial wall for being such a normal, completely predictable, boring know-nothing.

Oh wait, I guess you won't because none of it's real? OH MY GOD Y'ALL, I JUST REALIZED MY FAKE "BELIEFS" AREN'T ACTUALLY REAL!

Blessings upon you kerpal32 for showing me the error of my ways.


oh there's probably some truth in your posts. your posts reveal volumes about what you do and do not knowadmit.

/I think you gave up one cult for another
//smoochies.


I know there's some point you're trying to make and I'm trying real hard to 'get it', but I'm just a stupid pobucker.

I remember in another recent thread when you were trying to larn me something which for some reason or another didn't stick neither?

I guess I'll just always be adamantly unsure but I want you to know I know that I'm not getting that thing that you obviously want me to know, you know?
 
2009-11-18 07:21:36 PM
Hmm thinking about it Scientology is great!

Just remeber its not your fault, the little alien ghosties made you do it.

/they are an awesome alibi, who in their right mind would pay big bucks ot get rid of them?
 
2009-11-18 08:04:46 PM
static.open.salon.comvsgarotasquedizemni.ig.com.brbetter
 
2009-11-18 08:43:05 PM
"I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses"

It's funny, Christianity, like many of the old religions only influenced the human race for well over 3000 years. You can believe in it or not, take the good with the bad, but that is a fact that will never change.

The last time I checked, Scientology has done what? Sold some books, rented some buildings, put out a radio and limited who can join? Yeah, when they build a church and take in the homeless for 100 years, give me a call.
 
2009-11-18 09:35:39 PM
Neruos: "It's funny, Christianity, like many of the old religions only influenced the human race for well over 3000 years."

Serious question: Have you never heard that this is a fallacy? Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think that age equals legitimacy where ideas are concerned?
 
2009-11-18 09:38:58 PM
scalpod: "Blessings upon you kerpal32 for showing me the error of my ways."

Word of advice: You know how Scientologists will dig into your background information looking for anything they can use to smear you? Kerpal32 has used the same tactics on a number of occasions. Watch yourself around him.
 
2009-11-18 10:11:35 PM
Zamboro: scalpod: "Blessings upon you kerpal32 for showing me the error of my ways."

Word of advice: You know how Scientologists will dig into your background information looking for anything they can use to smear you? Kerpal32 has used the same tactics on a number of occasions. Watch yourself around him.


lmao.

/I don't know a damned thing about Scientology. Tough I did think the R2-45 link by someone was really bizarre.


//want to know who else can find out anything they need to know about trolls like you?


//stupid little board thugs like you try to smear people. others just have rational conversations.
 
2009-11-18 11:28:25 PM
Anything but atheism is a cult!
 
2009-11-19 12:38:12 AM
Sardonic_Padre: I'll start.



/hot like the plasma cannons of Xenu's mothership


I think Anonymous would attract more people if so many of its members were not a bunch pansies who run around in stupid masks and act like total douchebags.
 
2009-11-19 01:40:18 AM
All non-SubGenius religion is just mental illness on a global scale.

Praise "Bob", I love this cult!
 
2009-11-19 02:41:27 AM
8ace: incrdbil: 8ace:

I'm a troll? I give all religions the same amount of legitimacy as scientology. You tell me what the difference is. I laugh at the brain-washed masses

Intolerant prejudiced douchebag, troll, or jackass, take your pick. Failing to acknowledge a difference between mainstreat modern organized religion and scientology solidly puts you in all three of those categories.

Here here

Main Street

/pet peeve

Hear, hear
.

/Pet peeve
 
2009-11-19 06:06:01 AM
What is amazing about Scientology is that once you've passed OT3, you are more powerful than the average human.

You can drink Draino from the bottle and it is converted into harmless substances and tastes like Mountain Dew.

// The TECH is just that powerful.
 
2009-11-19 06:06:44 AM
(Just thinning the herd)
 
2009-11-19 09:04:04 AM
Kerpal: Anything but atheism is a cult!

anything but atheism huh. so not collecting stamps is a cult? bald is a cult?

lol - atheism can be a cult just like anything else.

/on a personal note, time to send this one to Drew.
 
2009-11-19 10:32:52 AM
The new Sea Org uniform? If so then I approve of Scientology!

img.photobucket.com
 
2009-11-20 12:22:06 PM
Zamboro: Serious question: Have you never heard that this is a fallacy? Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think that age equals legitimacy where ideas are concerned?

So you admit that religion is an idea not a belief?

/christianity = hey I have a watermellon in my garage. (i may or may not have one who knows!)
//scientology = Hey I have a billion tomatoes in my garage.

beaubeen.files.wordpress.com/redhot
 
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