If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SC Times)   ASCAP, jealous of the RIAA's press, decides to do the only thing it can, put the squeeze on bars and coffee shops that offer live music   (sctimes.com) divider line 322
    More: Sad  
•       •       •

14877 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2009 at 12:31 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



322 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2009-11-18 12:17:23 AM
They've been doing this for years. I worked for a place that got a visit for playing MP3's without the proper licensing in 2002. We had to switch to FM, where a royalty was already paid.
 
2009-11-18 12:35:09 AM
Anyone else read this as ASPCA and get confused?
 
2009-11-18 12:35:57 AM
So ... you're saying artists shouldn't get the money they're entitled to when someone plays their creation?

I think not. Pay up, cheapskates.
 
2009-11-18 12:36:19 AM
That duck is hilarious
 
2009-11-18 12:36:58 AM
LawyersRock: Anyone else read this as ASPCA and get confused?

No, but getting your lawyer spayed or neutered sounds like a good idea.
 
2009-11-18 12:37:39 AM
LawyersRock: Anyone else read this as ASPCA and get confused?

I came here to report that I read it as ASPCA and got confused.

/Animals on the brain.
 
2009-11-18 12:38:07 AM
TheHopeDiamond: So ... you're saying artists shouldn't get the money they're entitled to when someone plays their creation?

I think not. Pay up, cheapskates.


I'd tell you to go fark yourself, but then I'd have to pay Dick Cheney a royalty.
 
2009-11-18 12:38:37 AM
LawyersRock: Anyone else read this as ASPCA and get confused?

Considering the overall quality of most cover bands, the fees may help to prevent cruelty.
 
2009-11-18 12:40:14 AM
They've been around here lately, it's horrible; droppings everywhere you turn and screaming flesh orgies in alleyways that were once peaceful passages. These corporate beasts run rampant, brandishing their engorged briefcases and flinging legal documents about...
 
2009-11-18 12:41:25 AM
5 pages? They had to spread the article across 5 pages? What pack of retards is running that site?
 
2009-11-18 12:42:28 AM
Shucks, I came here to say exactly what davidphogan said. They have a reputation for being thuggish about it.
 
2009-11-18 12:44:40 AM
TheHopeDiamond: So ... you're saying artists shouldn't get the money they're entitled to when someone plays their creation?

I think not. Pay up, cheapskates.


Yeah because the artist should get payed every time some hippie with an acoustic guitar plays one of their songs in some tiny coffee shop. First of all that is just plain stupid and secondly good luck enforcing it. Like the actual artists ever see any of this money anyway.
 
2009-11-18 12:45:12 AM
Instead of ASCAP, they should be called BTPLG...

//only befitting of such ridiculousness.
 
2009-11-18 12:45:13 AM
ALPACA

ASSCAP

ASCRAP

/penis.
 
2009-11-18 12:45:25 AM
TheHopeDiamond: So ... you're saying artists shouldn't get the money they're entitled to when someone plays their creation?

I think not. Pay up, cheapskates.


The problem is that they artists don't always get paid. If the venue pays their yearly fee, and for some reason only allows say... Dave Matthews cover bands, Dave Matthews is likely not to see a dime since it's based off radio and TV airplay.
 
2009-11-18 12:45:26 AM
I'm a music composer and I also write theme and variations on a lot of music. I'd love ASCAP or SESME to come after me. Copyright law covers me playing theme and variations, and I would bet that many of the "covers" that live musicians play are also substantially variants.

I smell EXTORTION.
 
2009-11-18 12:46:02 AM
I smell like ointment.
 
2009-11-18 12:46:14 AM
MoeSzyslak: Like the actual artists ever see any of this money anyway.

No kidding. From the article, it looks like 10x as much money goes into asinine strong-arm tactics and ruining live music.
 
2009-11-18 12:46:39 AM
chick-freak-a: I smell EXTORTION.

I means SESAC, not SESME. *facepalm*
 
2009-11-18 12:49:06 AM
ASCAP has demanded fees from any bar or restaurant that offers live music... for, well, decades. It's why cover bands don't have to pay royalties. (My dad plays in a band, he knows about this).

I can only assume that this particular place didn't pay their fees for quite a while and got caught.

They're dumbasses.
 
2009-11-18 12:49:53 AM
MoeSzyslak: Like the actual artists ever see any of this money anyway.

Every now and again I find one of our songs has been turned to a $1.99 ringtone download. It'd cost more to go after them than we ever made as a band. The artists don't get much at all.

Years after the punk rock days, I went to college, and a few friends in Film school got a load of crap from the RIAA for using published music in their film projects. They got hit with "pay up or don't use the music" notices. For school projects. Not-for-profit projects.

Those guys in the RIAA/MPAA/ASCAP don't care about the artists, they care about gettin' paid. The artists barely get pennies on the twenty dollar bill.

Screw 'em. Download and paypal a dollar to the artist, you'll be giving the artist more than the label does.
 
2009-11-18 12:50:12 AM
article isn't loading

they are hustling, COVER BANDS? for royalties? perhaps the poorest demographic in america " musicians" are being shaken down, like it was a 2-bit mob?
 
2009-11-18 12:50:42 AM
davidphogan: They've been doing this for years.

Seriously. If there every was a story that was Not NewsTM, this would be it. Next thing you know, they're gonna report something shocking like cellphones don't give you brain cancer today!

We had to switch to FM,

Funny story with that; I used to be director of IT for a cluster of five radio stations. We got a C&D notice from our ISP about two things: 1. File Sharing, and 2. A public MP3 stream (station audio). Quick call to the corporate lawyers, quick fax back to nanny ISP, and we weren't ever bothered again....I'm sure things have changed since I left. Last thing, the voice talent was demanding royalties for internet ads and/or embargoing internet streaming of ads outside a particular market. That wasn't so much a mafia-like organization like ASCAP, RIAA, etc.

/No, it was one that was even more mafia-like
//A labor union......AFTRA
 
2009-11-18 12:52:34 AM
It's been a while, but the last time I had a band, IIRC, the BAND paid for a license for the right to play the music. Why does the venue also have to pay?
 
2009-11-18 12:52:55 AM
What next? Are they going to charge kids in a garage band for playing a shiatty rendition of Stairway? And they wonder why they're losing so much money to pirated songs.
 
2009-11-18 12:54:34 AM
TheHopeDiamond: So ... you're saying artists shouldn't get the money they're entitled to when someone plays their creation?

I think not. Pay up, cheapskates.


Upholsters should be paid every time someone sits on one of their creations.
Roofers should be paid every time someone is kept dry by their creations.
Doctors should be paid every time someone that they've helped takes another breath.
Lawyers should be paid every time one of their cases is cited.
 
2009-11-18 12:56:43 AM
srtpointman: What next? Are they going to charge kids in a garage band for playing a shiatty rendition of Stairway?

No Stairway!? Denied...
 
2009-11-18 12:57:43 AM
When did we hit the point where the intermediary money manager became a bigger cost than a benefit and how did they convince us of their necessity? RIAA, ASCAP, medical insurance companies, goon hiring agencies.. where did it all go wrong?
 
2009-11-18 12:58:19 AM
Perducci: TheHopeDiamond: So ... you're saying artists shouldn't get the money they're entitled to when someone plays their creation?

I think not. Pay up, cheapskates.

Upholsters should be paid every time someone sits on one of their creations.
Roofers should be paid every time someone is kept dry by their creations.
Doctors should be paid every time someone that they've helped takes another breath.
Lawyers should be paid every time one of their cases is cited.


Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.
 
2009-11-18 12:59:03 AM
A few years ago I took a class on copyright law, and the subject of playing movies or music came up. Keep in mind the class was taught by a copyright lawyer. He explained that if you can prove that no one is profiting off the music, then there's no harm. This means that if you're showing a movie in your living room you can charge people a cover fee to enter your living room, you can even charge for a place for them to sit, but you can not charge them to see the movie. Same for music.

Sadly, in a case like in TFA, it's hard to say the live band isn't a source of revenue when you make more money on live band night than you do on nights when you don't have a live band.

But here's what groups like the RIAA and the ASCAP are ignoring. They can shut down every file trading website, all the torrent sites, they can bleed money out of every bar that has a stage, dance floor, television and DVD player, stereo and jukebox, but in the end all their going to do is hurt themselves and the artists they represent. This shiat will eventually bite these groups in the ass by either having artists publicly speak out against these groups or when they go after the wrong person or when a bar successfully counter sues them leading other bars to continue to counter sue them out of existence. Pissing off the fans isn't how you do business in showbiz.
 
2009-11-18 12:59:13 AM
Fark my entire generation for one day waking up and deciding that music has no monetary value whatsoever.

To all the level-headed people who still understand that music is a worthwhile part of commerce, please accept my apologies on behalf of my peers.
 
2009-11-18 12:59:35 AM
During the course of 15 years I pretty much stopped learning cover songs and have only a personal 'current' file of about 12 originals, but they're mine, I can play them anywhere, and I'm pretty lazy and generally only show up at an occasional open mic...you know, where you're not really supposed to sit up there and show off covers because it ain't a singing contest TV show...

/this post brought to you by Bm, E7, Gm and A7 sliding up to D7
 
2009-11-18 12:59:38 AM
It wasn't that long ago when I was playing out, and we had to hand over a song list to the bar manager so they could pay this. I believe they paid $.12 a song.
 
2009-11-18 12:59:50 AM
davidphogan: They've been doing this for years. I worked for a place that got a visit for playing MP3's without the proper licensing in 2002. We had to switch to FM, where a royalty was already paid.

I briefly owned a coffee shop / art gallery space around 1998. I ran into the same thing, but they even wanted several thousand dollars a year just to play FM, so they were getting it on both ends. It was sickening. We threw in the towel on the business in general before we had to pay that bill, fortunately. One of many nails in the coffin, but a good learning experience.

ASCAP is a bunch of pig f*ckers. How much of that money do you think actually goes back to the artists? I'd much rather buy direct from bands' websites than itunes or any label store or Amazon. Hopefully helping the old regime to DIE IN A FIRE sooner.
 
2009-11-18 01:00:28 AM
My workplace has televisions everywhere. One day a rep from ASCAP showed up and demanded royalties because ASCAP has jingles or whatever licensed in commercials and programs. So my boss did the sensible thing and put every television on mute. The rep threw a fit because ASCAP lost out on money for being an organization full of douches.
I used to work for a small radio station handling business transactions. ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC can burn for all I care.
 
2009-11-18 01:01:25 AM
The future is going to be interesting for copyrights.


With technology ever involving it will either go one of two ways.

1. Everything becomes more free in terms of cost and restrictions. A new way to profit from ideas such has songs, books, and any intellectual property will have to come along. Like the quote 'Information wants to be free'.

2. Things try to stay the same, but not. To try to preserve the old, more and more draconian methods of controlling information are used. More and more things become locked down from free usage until even the most basic device has to go through hoops to work.



You can see examples of number 2 in the lawsuits being filed against everyone and lock down encoding that only let's a song to be played on a certain device.
 
2009-11-18 01:01:34 AM
MoeSzyslak: Like the actual artists ever see any of this money anyway.

You have no idea how performance rights societies work, do you?
 
2009-11-18 01:02:07 AM
We have a no-covers policy at my business, and we play an internet radio feed. I wouldn't mind paying ASCAP and the other PROs, but they don't account for the money they take in, and they don't fairly distribute it to the songwriters. I am a BMI songwriter and had a song played for several years on satellite radio before I heard it and called to find out where my check was...turns out unless you're Madonna or Prince or the like, they don't really track your plays. Awesome.
 
2009-11-18 01:02:35 AM
sp0rk_of_psychosis: /this post brought to you by Bm, E7, Gm and A7 sliding up to D7

Sorry, I own D7 so I'll have to ask you to cease playing that chord.
 
2009-11-18 01:02:58 AM
I work at a jazz bar that seats 35 getting hassled by these guys, so kicks, replies, you know the story.

They call at least once a week, sometimes up to three times. I asked how we would know how much to pay unless we cataloged every song played there and who's to know if we're cheating, but they told me it's just a blanket fee - all based on the assumption, because they own X percent of total copyrights owned, that the townie band getting drunk and playing in the corner is ransacking music that happens to be copyrighted by them. It's all totally legal and I know of several owners in the area who've had to pay ginormous back fees.

\DNRTFA
 
2009-11-18 01:03:42 AM
Great Janitor: Sadly, in a case like in TFA, it's hard to say the live band isn't a source of revenue when you make more money on live band night than you do on nights when you don't have a live band.

That is all that needs to be said.

Bar profits from the intellectual properties of others. Copyright law says that you have to pay when you profit from the intellectual properties of others.

As a person who makes part of his money from the intellectual properties of others I have no problem with the way this works. I'm sure if I were a 20 year old college kid I'd be all bummed out about how "the man" is stepping on music which should be, like, free. Bummer.
 
2009-11-18 01:04:38 AM
AlexItalics: Fark my entire generation for one day waking up and deciding that music has no monetary value whatsoever.

To all the level-headed people who still understand that music is a worthwhile part of commerce, please accept my apologies on behalf of my peers.


Sure, as soon as you the rest of the music industry stop being hypocritical and start paying royalties to Zildjian, Fender, Gretsch, Yamaha, ProTools and a thousand others for personally profiting from their 'signature sounds' and IP. Until then, a 16 ounce dark roast please.
 
2009-11-18 01:04:57 AM
img1.fark.net RIAA goes after live bands who perform cover songs at your local bar.
 
2009-11-18 01:05:01 AM
Someone needs to kill off the MUZAK business once and for all. They're like collection agencies for the entertainment business.
 
2009-11-18 01:05:29 AM
You kids! In 1989 a bookstore I worked in received letter that conveyed a complaint and threat from ASCAP for playing tapes. TAPES! Included in the letter was a list of businesses successfully sued for violation of the licence, nursing homes, farmers markets, JAZZERCIZE CLASSES!

/We played noting but NPR from then on.
//I learned to HATE classical music, sorry to say, but I did.
 
2009-11-18 01:06:39 AM
carmody: I am a BMI songwriter and had a song played for several years on satellite radio before I heard it and called to find out where my check was...turns out unless you're Madonna or Prince or the like, they don't really track your plays. Awesome.

Radio play (except CBC and iirc NPR) are not directly tracked. They are random sampling systems which means that, yeah, little guys get screwed.

Bars can file cue sheets. Bands SHOULD file set lists with bars. Live music venues that are anywhere beyond rinky-dink have the mechanisms in-place to file cue sheets with the appropriate societies. If you're in a band and you're playing even one single original song in your set list you should file cue sheets and get paid.

Same for film and TV uses. Not random sampling. Actual tracked cues based upon paperwork filed by the broadcasters.
 
2009-11-18 01:08:24 AM
toejam: sp0rk_of_psychosis: /this post brought to you by Bm, E7, Gm and A7 sliding up to D7

Sorry, I own D7 so I'll have to ask you to cease playing that chord.


Oh, that's really nice and all, but you hear that string scrape leading into it mixed with some vibrato? I never actually played D7, it was an original progression of notes, which I copyrighted through the very act of composing and playing it on the spot. Because you heard it, I'm going to need you to sign this waiver acknowledging I own that phrasing kthxbye

/widdlywiddlywiddilyweee!
 
2009-11-18 01:09:16 AM
... played NOTHING but...
Arg!
Liter.
kinda drunk.
 
2009-11-18 01:11:22 AM
AlexItalics: Fark my entire generation for one day waking up and deciding that music has no monetary value whatsoever.

It has a monetary value, but one that's thousands of times smaller than presently expected.

I think musicians should make a comfortable living and enjoy some fame, but I will be glad to see the disappearance of the manufactured multi-millionaire aberrations of the last sixty years.
 
2009-11-18 01:11:47 AM
sp0rk_of_psychosis: Oh, that's really nice and all, but you hear that string scrape leading into it mixed with some vibrato? I never actually played D7, it was an original progression of notes, which I copyrighted through the very act of composing and playing it on the spot. Because you heard it, I'm going to need you to sign this waiver acknowledging I own that phrasing kthxbye

/widdlywiddlywiddilyweee!


You hear that sound your keyboard makes when you hit the keys? I wrote that. You owe me sooooo much money...

/Disclaimer: This is a cheap joke and not intended as commentary of the ASCAP or the methods by which artists are reimbursed.
 
Displayed 50 of 322 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report