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(The Australian)   Taliban confronted by a Russian front   (theaustralian.news.com.au) divider line 45
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4236 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Sep 2001 at 12:31 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-09-19 12:36:08 AM  
Taliban confronted by a Farkistani front aswell
 
2001-09-19 12:40:36 AM  
As the Minister of the Cosmos of Cyber Jugoslavia, I support the actions of Farkistan on all fronts.
 
2001-09-19 12:48:24 AM  
From now on, every time I hear threatening remarks from the Taliban, I promise to laugh heartily. They'd be easy pickens against the mighty USA alone...

Now we've got a possible joint attack force from the USA, Russia, and China. The Indians back the very cool Northern Alliance forces, so they'd probably send troops too. The Pakistanis have totally reversed Taliban support and are now basically demanding Bin Laden "or else." Iran has shown great support -- they won't participate only because they can't afford a war right now, but they have totally closed off their Afghan border and have always been highly anti-Taliban regardless (Sunni vs. Shi'ite). The Tajikhstanis are almost certainly going to allow air corriders since the Russians approve as does the international community.

So, completely forgetting about the almost 100% US support worldwide, the Taliban is already totally surrounded by a bunch of countries that would love to kick their asses. Remember how the Gulf War was widely considered a "fun" war because it was so damn easy? Same thing here. Endless millions of hardened soldiers worldwide and state-of-the-art technology ready pull out the can of whup ass, fighting a bunch of poor peasants and clerics...

Hearty, full laughter. And you know, all they have to do is hand over Bin Laden, so it's their own damn fault.
 
2001-09-19 12:54:30 AM  
it is obvious to me that we are getting surrounding countries prior approval to use nuclear weapons.
 
2001-09-19 12:57:05 AM  
Easy there Buckshot. Lets not forget that the soviets had the ass kicked without direct us involvement. The Afghans are hardened by 20 years of unrelenting war and they have two generations of battle hardened gurella warriors. This will NOT be as easy as the gulf war, it will not end in 100 hours. More like trying to conquer a country the size of Texas with moutains as high as the rockys. Do not be disingenous.

Will we lose many soldiers?
Yes

Will we have a united coalition?
Yes

Will we win?
Yes.

And most of all, terrorist will think twice before ever considering this type of action again.
 
2001-09-19 12:57:54 AM  
The sh*t is just hitting the fan
 
2001-09-19 12:58:44 AM  
nuke em
 
2001-09-19 01:05:37 AM  
Okay, maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and maybe I should just shut up, but I'm gonna talk anyway. :) Is it me, or does this situation seem eerily similar to the series of events that led up to the Cold War? We've got all these countries who we've never had great relationships with (China, Russia, most of the rest of the Middle East), all offering gank-support. Apparently, Afghanistan is already split with the Northern Alliance, so suppose some gigantic military strike is mobilized and we manage to completely take over Afghanistan, what then? With the Taliban in control, I doubt the US will want to leave them there. Might the "many countries" (as Steve Croft is saying as I watch as I type this) involved end up fighting over the left-overs? Or would anyone even want Afghanistan? I forsee a very real situation where the US and Pakistan, or Russia and Pakistan, or maybe even the US and Russia (again) might become enemies over this (Pakistan and Afghanistan are neighbors, right? My Middle Eastern geography sucks.).
Or maybe I'm a dumbass.
 
2001-09-19 01:07:18 AM  
Lessons learned by the Soviets when they played in the Afghani's field:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/18/ret.russia.afghanwar/
 
2001-09-19 01:17:45 AM  
"Dr Abdullah Abdullah" (Chuckle-chortle)
 
2001-09-19 01:21:07 AM  
and yet those russki's never let us down! we need to become good allies with Russia, Russia has had similar terrorism by bin ladens homos. not only Russia, all the countrys that has this problem.
 
2001-09-19 01:22:49 AM  
"Dr Abdullah Abdullah" lololollololololololololololololololol hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah ahahahahaha OMG!!!! I cant stop.
 
2001-09-19 01:24:28 AM  
Mrplaid

You're not a dumbass at all. I doubt if there will be a carving up of Afghanistan like germany of the old soviet bloc. its land locked, scarce water, the soil is pretty much played out. It would be nice to have an airbase so close to China/Russia/Central Asia but I seriously doubt that Pakistan and India would sit for that happening. Don't forget, Pakistan and India are both nuclear powers now. As the british learned a while back- Mess with the Sub-Continent at your peril. Or as a friend once said, "We need to get in, get off, then get out or in other words treat them like a coed."
 
2001-09-19 02:00:31 AM  
Good, now we will be sure they don't get gauze or Antibiotics.

Yeah USA. Rah rah!

[/apathy]
 
2001-09-19 02:18:02 AM  
Irascible:

Yeah, the Ruskis got their asses handed to them on a platter. But (and, like mine, it's a big butt) that was by a completely different government (what is now basically the NOrthern Alliance), led by the general (who's name I forget and I'm too lazy to back up and find it) who was assassinated last week. It's not like the Taliban (who, from what I've read, most Afghans can't stand) kicked the Ruskis out, they just picked up the pieces and ran with them.
 
2001-09-19 02:27:00 AM  
buckshot:

yeah, except that the various people who have occupied afghanistan kicked the asses of these superpowers (chronological order):

1. Alexander the Great - they stopped here.
2. The British, three times over, when it was a superpower
3. soviets - they captured the urban towns quickly. they could never get control of the countryside (and so eventually they lost the towns too).


The following superpowers have kicked their asses:

1. The mongols, mainly because they killed everyone and destoryed everything. We don't really have that option( well, we could, but then the world would not side with us).

So what will happen? No farking clue. But i've heard that there are plenty of caves in afghanistan, and all you need is a horse to go to one of them and camp out. And i've heard that Osama loves horses. He's probably already on the way to one of them (which may be good, because that's a virtual jail ;p).
 
2001-09-19 02:35:31 AM  
Bison:

yeah, the general's name was masood. apparently two "journalists" with belgian passports and pakistani visas visited him and set up a booby trapped camera, which exploded, causing masood to almost die..

I think the best explaination of the history of afghanistan is here. Scroll to the bottom for the recent stuff.
 
2001-09-19 05:36:03 AM  
chemical weapons, and/or biological weapons. Look at all these goofy guys and thier beards, they couldn't get thier pro-masks over them in time to save thier life. We could annihliate many of them before they caught on to shaving.
 
2001-09-19 09:12:06 AM  
We can achieve world peace by settling aside our differences, and then KICKING THE ASS OF A common enemy! Woo hoo!
 
2001-09-19 09:46:19 AM  
"paging Dr Abdullah Abdullah"
 
2001-09-19 09:49:09 AM  
Fault: Good link. What a farked-up country.
 
2001-09-19 10:52:27 AM  
"...[The]Russia's 201st division, stationed on Afghanistan's border with Tajikistan, had been placed on the highest level of alert, raising the possibility of a simultaneous attack by Russian and US troops on Taliban forces and terrorist bases from the north and the south of the country."

hehehe

BOO!

hehehe
 
2001-09-19 10:53:41 AM  
Isn't this frighteningly like "Dune"? Except no hallucinogenic spice is buried under this desert. No worms either.
 
2001-09-19 11:09:36 AM  
They found Ben Ladin in the U.S.!

 
2001-09-19 11:10:48 AM  
"Afghan opposition forces pledged their support for any US military action against Osama bin Laden and his supporters."

They don't get it, do they? We not only want the terrorist, we want to make an example out of countries that keep, protect, and trains them. The Taliban is in deep shiat now, since practically every country with a medium sized or larger army, is rallying against them. Reap what you sow...
 
2001-09-19 11:12:20 AM  
Nukes and Biological weapons aren't the answer, either. Sure it does some nice damage up front, but the long term affects aren't worth it. Not to mention that more people will die than necessary using those methods.
 
2001-09-19 11:13:21 AM  
Nuking is like masturbation - in the end you're just farking yourself.
 
2001-09-19 11:35:51 AM  
Hello Mr Jones. I am Dr Abdullah Abdullah. Elbows on the table please...
 
2001-09-19 11:53:11 AM  
Aren't you Yanks glad that your government brain-washed you into hating and fearing the Russians since the end of WWII? Hey, they only lost 21 MILLION people helping the Allies defeat the Nazis. Now they're your friends. You're going to need all the friends you can get if you think war is the answer to anything. The world is so farked.
 
fb-
2001-09-19 12:10:00 PM  
WHO'S YA DADDY NOW biatchES!
 
2001-09-19 01:46:24 PM  
Tucci:
Thanks for the token anti-American sentiment. Though I'd have to say that while there was a goodly amount of anti-Russian propaganda, I'd say the US was somewhat justified in not being to friendly with the Russians of the time. They were hardly the innocent, benevolent folks you seem to want to portray them as. As I recall from my history classes, they signed a treaty with the Nazis, promising to not attack them. They only got involved when Hitler decided to attack them. Post WWII Stalin had a hell of a lot of people killed. There's also the matter of the idealogical differences that made it pretty difficult for the American capitalists and the Russian communists to be friendly with eachother. It seems that commies and capatilists just can't play nice.
And on the subject of the current hostility towards Afghanistan, I'd say that's justified too. Quite a few(4500 is the most recent confiremd number, isn't it?) Americans just died horrible screaming deaths. The prime suspect for this act is Osama bin Laden. There's quite a bit of evidence showing that he was involved in previous terrorist attack upon the US, but nothing on this scale until now. Despite this, Afghanistan still harbors him and still refuses to extradite him. I'd think that'd piss any country off.
 
2001-09-19 01:53:57 PM  
Scary thing:

Came home lsat night about 8:30 pm, and there were kids who were maybe 15, if a day, handing out copied posters of bin laden with a target site on his forehead saying "if you see this piece of crap, shoot to kill".

Nevermind the fact that they are so freaking young, they couldn't be drafted. Most if not all of them fail to realize the implications of the actions that they are condoning.
 
2001-09-19 03:32:48 PM  
One of the reasons the USSR had such trouble with the Afghan is the nice American anti-aircraft missiles. Without which, I suppose you'd read a different story.

OK, here's how it is. The Russians and the Northern Alliance are applying pressure in the north. A US-backed Paki force comes up to the Khyber pass and stops. Meanwhile, the main US force moves into southern Afghanistan to cut off the food-producing areas, and digs in. There are rebels forces down there as well. I might add. Slowly the noose tightens... I am forbidden to tell you more.
 
2001-09-19 03:34:17 PM  
SuicideBoy,
If you think you know all about Russia because you read something in an American textbook, think again.
Without the Russian effort in WWII, we'd all be speaking German.
My point is that governments, not people, create propaganda and therefor, hate between peoples. Look at the backlash in the U.S. and in Canada, against Muslims, Pakistanis, Indians, etc. Why does this happen? People are conditioned by their country's media (i.e. propaganda machine).
We need sober second thought before embarking on another sortie to foreign soil to wage war, and an end to hatred against innocent individuals of identifiable minorities right here at home.
 
2001-09-19 03:46:53 PM  
1000 jyhads on Tucci.
 
2001-09-19 04:00:40 PM  
I have serious doubts to this being a "fun war" like the Gulf War
 
2001-09-19 04:01:12 PM  
Tucci wrote -

"We need sober second thought before embarking on another sortie to foreign soil to wage war, and an end to hatred against innocent individuals of identifiable minorities right here at home."

Going sdrawkcab, the hatred, and more specifically the hate crimes, against the 'innocent individuals of identifable minorities' are caused mostly by ignorant people.
Everyone who bloody well assumes that Americans (or any other nationality), in general, treat the identifable innocents with hatred are no better than the handful of the people who actually act out in hate. Most of us are more tolerant than that.

For the first part, it will take a good bit of planning to move trips over to the area, after having set up a base of operations (not to mention securing the area around it). No, we will probably let the others do most of the work in the start. That and we will probably launch spec ops missions initially. And, why is it that you assume that Afghanistan is the only place the war will be fought. There are cells all over the world, most likely. As such, there will be fights all over the place.

And if you believe that the government and media create hate between people, look at some of the on going wars in the middle east, which are how many centuries old? I'm sure that the tv news started those wars, or maybe it was the government. Whatever it was, it surely couldn't have been brought about by idealogical and theological intolerance, could it?

Oh and bamf75 - that's Jihad. :)
 
2001-09-19 04:16:19 PM  
Vampy,
I was talking about the long-standing, government and media perpetuated hate for the Russians, who now will be allies in the war on terrorism, along with my country, Canada.
But because of this official ideology, McDonalds had to go through its Canadian subsidiary when it first opened shop in Russia.
We all want vengeance for this unspeakable horrific act. But do we want WWIII?
It's a difficult time to try to present a non-conformist viewpoint to Americans. I apologize.
Believe me - Canadian thoughts and prayers are with all of you and with those who've lost loved ones. This strikes very close to us too.
 
2001-09-19 06:01:31 PM  
Tucci: Seeing as how you claim that American textbooks are full of lies, why don't you enlighten us all to what Canadian textbooks have to say on the issue. Our textbooks over here state that the Russians signed a pact of neutrality with the Nazis and only got involved when the Nazis broke it. This seems to be verified pretty much wherever I look. I even poked around on the internet to see if I could find any claims to the contrary, and I still didn't turn anything up. Also looks like theres quite a bit of documentation of the bad stuff that the Russian government did after the war.
And I doubt that this will turn into much of a world war. So far it seems the two sides of this conflict consist of a few small countries(and as I recall, they're all 3rd world nations) on one side, and most of the major national powers on the other.
 
2001-09-19 06:28:10 PM  
Sui-Boy,
I really don't wish to prick the wounds. You're missing my point. I'm not disputing any treaties. I said that the Russians, who for a long time were painted as villains in the West, are now your allies in this new war. They lost 21 million people in WWII, helping us beat the Nazis.
It also seems that the U.S. has supported guys just like Stalin, all over the world. The Shah, Pinochet, Saddam (when he was fighting the Iranians), etc. etc. etc. In short, wherver U.S. economic interests are threatened.
But again, I don't want to say negative things against the U.S. at a time like this. So just drop it.
 
2001-09-19 06:36:00 PM  
Eh. There is no debate they they are more friendly now. After the whole Communist thing collapsed on them, the US gave them some aid. Since they're now a democracy(if I remember correctly), we're pretty much okay with them, aside from a few incidents like when they were buying national secrets from that FBI traitor guy, and over the missile defense shield that Bush is pushing for. So yes, they're our allies now. But that doesn't change history and their former government still did some bad stuff.
 
2001-09-19 07:01:09 PM  
Sui,
You really do oversimplify and spout the party line when it comes to summarizing the cold war.
Nuff said.
 
2001-09-19 07:57:56 PM  
hmmm

democracy was the weapon that brought the Soviet Union down..they were doing alright through the cold war..it wasn't till Gorbachev swallowed the democracy pill that it all fell to bits.

hey, and democracy is far from a perfect system.
read Plato's Republic?
 
2001-09-19 10:25:11 PM  
In the words of the Counter-Strike voiceover:

"Counter-terrorists win."
 
2001-09-20 12:54:54 AM  
Tucci: Perhaps I do oversimplify. But you're still not giving any real evidence or specific cases where the American government and media engaged in deliberate propaganda unfairly demonizing the Russians of the Cold War. Perhaps you could give an online source that goes into these claims in more detail. I've found that most any conspiracy theory can be found on the internet. I've even seen quite a few websites damning Mother Theresa as a money grubbing, cold hearted woman who let people die because there was no money or publicity in saving them. And I do love conspiracy theories so.

Bongo_Fury: Oh? It was my impression that it was the crushing poverty that brought the nation down. I remember seeing something about Russians having to wait in long lines just to get enough bread to live on. I could be wrong though.
 
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