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(Cincinnati Enquirer)   Ohio is letting convicted mothers raise their children behind bars. What could go wrong? "Prison should be a place for punishment, not somewhere to raise babies."   (news.cincinnati.com) divider line 102
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4711 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2009 at 3:59 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-11-13 02:58:41 PM
Actually, very little could go wrong, and a whole lot could go right. Programs like this give back far more than they cost, but I suspect "critics" like Rep. Joe Uecker are far more interested in cheap, tough-guy soundbites to impress their drooling constituents than in actually exploring the real nuances of child welfare.
 
2009-11-13 03:10:42 PM
Ohio prison officials looked at the program at its five-year mark and found 118 mothers had participated, with just 3 percent of the women committing another crime within three years of being released. Of the general female prison population 30 percent commit another crime.

I have an ever better program - we must impregnate all women prisoners, and then let them live with their babbies in prison.

Seriously though - I usually hate programs that sound "soft on criminals" or whatever, but if they have the numbers to show this kind of benefit, and that the benefit is due to this program (vs new moms who weren't in the program), then I don't see how it can be bad.

Letting fathers raise their babies in jail... well...
 
2009-11-13 03:38:42 PM
Good program, looks like. Prison is primarily for rehabilitation, not punishment. If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.
 
2009-11-13 03:42:49 PM
Pocket Ninja: Programs like this give back far more than they cost, but I suspect "critics" like Rep. Joe Uecker are far more interested in cheap, tough-guy soundbites to impress their drooling constituents than in actually exploring the real nuances of child welfare.

Or the nuances of criminal recidivism. Going from a 30% rate to a 3% rate is not a bad thing.
 
2009-11-13 04:01:00 PM
I'm pregnant and need free health care and a place to stay. Hmmm. Guess I'll go beat some people to death.
 
2009-11-13 04:04:11 PM
MEEP!!! (new window)
 
2009-11-13 04:07:21 PM
Ohio prison officials looked at the program at its five-year mark and found 118 mothers had participated, with just 3 percent of the women committing another crime within three years of being released. Of the general female prison population 30 percent commit another crime.

Too many variables. I want to see mothers who participated in the program (3%) versus mothers who did not participate (?%). They obviously have that statistic as well, and it's more relevant, so why didn't they share it?
 
2009-11-13 04:08:22 PM
This is a great idea, because you know the fathers sure as hell aren't around to raise the children.
 
2009-11-13 04:08:41 PM
Well, this will free up little Takeem's grandma from having to do the child rearing unlike the majority of his peers.
 
2009-11-13 04:08:55 PM
GraysonAC: Good program, looks like. Prison is primarily for rehabilitation, not punishment. If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.

ruh roh. you're in for it now. ;)

/or 6/10?
 
2009-11-13 04:09:04 PM
GraysonAC: If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.

And if it instead exposes young children to the worst aspects of human sociology and damages them forever, so be it.
 
2009-11-13 04:09:12 PM
Sounds like a great idea to me. It's probably cheaper than foster homes, it'll give the moms a chance to get some parenting classes that include the lab, as it were, and the kids'll be supervised and disciplined a lot better.
 
2009-11-13 04:09:13 PM
Hau Ruck: Pocket Ninja: Programs like this give back far more than they cost, but I suspect "critics" like Rep. Joe Uecker are far more interested in cheap, tough-guy soundbites to impress their drooling constituents than in actually exploring the real nuances of child welfare.

Or the nuances of criminal recidivism. Going from a 30% rate to a 3% rate is not a bad thing.


Mmm, on the other hand, you do have to wonder what this does to a kid. I mean come on, social service departments routinely pull kids from homes for parents that are guilty of far less. Now you're making a point of putting a baby in with someone who, practically by definition, is unfit to be a parent?

Maybe a pilot program raising rabbits or something? Canaries? Something that it won't matter so much when it gets caught in a prison riot and kicked to death or held hostage?
 
2009-11-13 04:09:43 PM
what. the. fark.
 
2009-11-13 04:09:46 PM
GoldSpider: And if it instead exposes young children to the worst aspects of human sociology and damages them forever, so be it.

Yup. Because they just let the kids loose to run around in gen pop.
 
2009-11-13 04:11:22 PM
Pocket Ninja: Yup. Because they just let the kids loose to run around in gen pop.

At least they're already in jail for when the inevitable happens.
 
2009-11-13 04:13:39 PM
Pocket Ninja, how do you do that so well and so fast?
 
2009-11-13 04:13:48 PM
The same option is not available to male inmates? That seems unfair.
 
2009-11-13 04:14:20 PM
I don't see the difference between prison and raising children.

/got two
 
2009-11-13 04:14:47 PM
fireclown: Pocket Ninja, how do you do that so well and so fast?

Life: He has none.
 
2009-11-13 04:17:47 PM
Holy crap, I used to live by the women's prison in Indy. I didn't know they jailed their kids, too.

/conjugal visits will never be the same
 
2009-11-13 04:17:55 PM
It's weird to think of children living in a prison, but children are better off with their mothers (even if their mother is a criminal) than without them. At least it's a stable environment, and probably helluva lot better than some of the civilian environments those kids are living in, especially if mom was involved in drug crimes.
 
2009-11-13 04:19:47 PM
Maybe one of the kids will grow up to break Batman
 
2009-11-13 04:19:58 PM
So, how exactly do you give your kid a 'Time-Out' when you're already in prison? Do you ask the guards permission?
 
2009-11-13 04:20:19 PM
I would think that the only thing I would hate more than being in prison would be having my kid have to be there with me. Just my opinion, but I don't care how many Sesame Street decals you put on the walls, my kiddo would be spending time in a prison and I just couldn't live with that.

Now, if I was in prison and actually had to hand over my baby, this would probably change. I guess I just don't like the idea then.

I have no idea what I'm saying.
 
2009-11-13 04:20:36 PM
Hmm, perhaps the problem is that women are being incarcerated for stupid shiat (drugs, prostitution) rather than things that actually matter.
 
2009-11-13 04:20:53 PM
Cornchips are no place for a mighty warrior
 
2009-11-13 04:20:54 PM
The idea that prison is about punishment is one of biggest reasons our prisons are failing.
 
2009-11-13 04:22:20 PM
I like this thread. Good job.
 
2009-11-13 04:23:22 PM
Shut_up_and_fark_me: This is a great idea, because you know the fathers sure as hell aren't around to raise the children.
www.creepygif.com
 
2009-11-13 04:24:11 PM
TheGreatGildersleeve: Now you're making a point of putting a baby in with someone who, practically by definition, is unfit to be a parent?

Where else would you put them?
 
2009-11-13 04:24:19 PM
Prison should be a place for punishment, not somewhere to raise babies

I thought raising babies was a punishment.

lordargent.com
 
2009-11-13 04:24:53 PM
Uncle Pim: The idea that prison is about punishment is one of biggest reasons our prisons are failing.

This,

If you want punishment, than cain people like Singapore and get it overwith quick and easy (and cheap!).
 
2009-11-13 04:24:57 PM
GraysonAC: Good program, looks like. Prison is primarily for rehabilitation, not punishment. If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.

Even the justice dept. has backed away from the word "rehabilitation" in the past 20 years.

Pro tip: the only people you will ever hear use it referring to prison is the media. Everyone else has been told not to. No science to prove it works... just causes political problems to call it that without the evidence.
 
2009-11-13 04:25:09 PM
GoldSpider: GraysonAC: If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.

And if it instead exposes young children to the worst aspects of human sociology and damages them forever, so be it.


I hear instead of nap time, they get "Talk to the scary rapist time".

This keeps the kids with their mother, which is preferable to throwing them into the shiatter of the child services system. Does the idea of kids in prison suck? Yeah, it does. But it sounds a lot better than the alternatives to me.
 
2009-11-13 04:25:48 PM
Better than the ghetto.
And, oh my, rehabilitation efforts. This must be eradicated.
 
2009-11-13 04:26:38 PM
hippydippy: It's weird to think of children living in a prison, but children are better off with their mothers (even if their mother is a criminal) than without them.

Sorry can you provide a logical argument for this? Not the emotional sentimental "blood" argument where by having spit something out of a vagina you're somehow magically better for the child than say a loving foster parent...
 
2009-11-13 04:27:17 PM
DIGITALgimpus: GraysonAC: Good program, looks like. Prison is primarily for rehabilitation, not punishment. If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.

Even the justice dept. has backed away from the word "rehabilitation" in the past 20 years.

Pro tip: the only people you will ever hear use it referring to prison is the media. Everyone else has been told not to. No science to prove it works... just causes political problems to call it that without the evidence when it's not at all what you're doing.


FTFY
 
2009-11-13 04:27:36 PM
I would prefer that we rethink which crimes necessitate prison time. If someone is in a prison where it wouldn't be dangerous for the kids and the sentence is such that she's allowed to see them, then I'm wondering why she's in prison to begin with. There are other ways to handle those situations.

I also second the concerns about kids growing up in that kind of environment and thinking that's what's "normal". People can get a little carried away with this "it's best for kids to be with their mothers" notion. Yes, it's true in general, but we can't start letting mothers off the hook for serious crimes because "oh, she's a mother and we have to think about the impact on the child". Maybe the mother should have thought of that before she did what she did; if she can't do that, then it seems to me she has failed the "fit parent" test.

So back to the first point... if we get back to some sense of reason when it comes to crime and punishment instead of trying to throw everyone in prison for the slightest offense, we wouldn't have to come up with these wacky schemes to begin with.
 
2009-11-13 04:27:48 PM
Do the kids get to watch Mom and "Johnny?"
 
2009-11-13 04:29:26 PM
Pocket Ninja: Actually, very little could go wrong, and a whole lot could go right. Programs like this give back far more than they cost, but I suspect "critics" like Rep. Joe Uecker are far more interested in cheap, tough-guy soundbites to impress their drooling constituents than in actually exploring the real nuances of child welfare.

ARE YOU INSANE?????? kids growing up thinking this is the norm..... yeah good move Ohio
 
2009-11-13 04:29:39 PM
Instead of letting their moms raise them, they should let white families adopt them. At least that way, they might have a fighting chance.
 
2009-11-13 04:30:24 PM
The only thing missing from tiny Takeem Maffett's world are black and white people


FTFT
//Too soon?
 
2009-11-13 04:31:32 PM
You can be convicted for being a mother? Wow, tough state.

Little Bear: I don't see the difference between prison and raising children.

/got two


In prison you can have yourself thrown into solitary to get away from them.

/got 4
 
2009-11-13 04:32:19 PM
I think this is a great idea especially for the children of addicts.

The children get several good years of quality time with mom, when she'll be clean, sober and eager to participate in their lives (as much as they can behind bars).


/goes back to lurking
 
2009-11-13 04:33:11 PM
GraysonAC: Good program, looks like. Prison is primarily for rehabilitation, not punishment. If this can make responsible mothers out of convicts, then good on it.

Prison being for punishment helps no one. so THIS ^^^^ a million times this.
 
2009-11-13 04:33:28 PM
Wonder what the age cut-off is, and whether prison becomes a fond memory, or a bad memory for the child.

Would it make them subconsciously desire to go to prison? or perhaps make them want to work for a prison?

Will they remember prison as this wonderful time with mom that ended when she was doing the right thing, was released, then re-offended and went back in?

I'd love to see some studies along those lines, to prove that an educated decision is being made regarding the welfare of the child.

Though the real answer is right under our noses. Why not take an active role in natural selection and say "Guess what.. these genes have already proven themselves capable of producing offspring that will end-up in jail."
AND
"Having a mom like this is going to teach their children questionable values regarding criminal behavior."

Therefore, let's offer them up to mom for her meals until the baby is depleted. Then sterlize the mom to ensure that the genes die with her.

That should make for a pretty good deterrent to mothers contemplating illegal actions that could land them in jail and their children on the menu. It could also assist in paying for her food bills. Sounds horrible? so does a mom passing along her behaviors to her children.

Oh.. we can't do that because the Children are people with rights? well stop randomly sticking them in jail for things their mothers do. They may need a mom, but they don't need THAT mom.

It's like keeping and encouraging a teacher to continue to teach despite a known history for being a repeat offense criminal.

When we run out of adopting parents.. THEN let's consider alternatives to adoption. Stop rewarding idiots who have kids and still can't straighten up enough to stop breaking laws. If she doesn't know right from wrong, (or how to act according to her definitions of Right versus Wrong) how will she pass along good info to her kids?

Besides, why does she get her kids living with her and the rest of the inmates don't? Because she's female, and had a child recently?

Jail is better than no job and rent/food to buy, children to raise, etc, but it's not better than family, and that serves as a deterent for those that would seek "3 hots (meals) and a cot".

Allow the child in there and low income woman will begin seeing it as a duty to their child to go get arrested.

/Super Obvious Troll even announces his intent to troll. Please rate on a scale of 1 to 10.
 
2009-11-13 04:33:47 PM
Let's see, prison or raise the crotch fruit?
Tough one.
Lemee think.
 
2009-11-13 04:33:57 PM
Not about the welfare of the mothers. It's about the welfare of the kids.

Kids need a mother. You can say 'well, the mother shouldn't do something where the kids are left without a mother', but... it's still not fair to punish the kids by taking away their mother. It simply makes the kids more likely to follow the same life path when THEY grow older.

And it cuts way the hell down on violence inside the prison itself-- a maternal atmosphere takes over to a degree and inmates are less willing to shank someone, because what would the kids think.
 
2009-11-13 04:35:52 PM
Lord_Dubu: hippydippy: It's weird to think of children living in a prison, but children are better off with their mothers (even if their mother is a criminal) than without them.

Sorry can you provide a logical argument for this? Not the emotional sentimental "blood" argument where by having spit something out of a vagina you're somehow magically better for the child than say a loving foster parent...


Actually it isn't even about whose vagina the kid came from, the idea is to cultivate the mother's skills so that when she is free, she will be a better mom to that child. You don't agree this is worthwhile?
 
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