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(The Consumerist)   You can make your very own Tamiflu at home. I'm sure this will end well   (consumerist.com) divider line 124
    More: Strange, Tamiflu, CVs, pediatricians, capsules, pharmacists, half-hour, pharmacy  
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19703 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2009 at 6:50 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-11-12 07:40:30 PM  
Anybody want some of my home made Prozac?

img97.imageshack.us

/needs more ice cream
 
2009-11-12 07:40:42 PM  
Just promptly make sure you promptly do it promptly for your prompt, precious snowflake.

P.S. promptly promptly promptly promptly promptly promptly promptly
 
2009-11-12 07:40:50 PM  
I can make a bomb out of a toilet paper roll and a stick of dynamite.
 
2009-11-12 07:42:22 PM  
RocketRod: Naw... you gotta go a Baileys or Kahlua thickness.

I'd go with Baileys myself, think it would be better for a kid. Hold on, family services at the door...
 
2009-11-12 07:43:24 PM  
aerojockey: dahmers love zombie

Um, the directions are "Take Tamiflu capsules, open them, and mix them with liquid to make liquid Tamiflu". That's sort of like saying that you can make a backpack nuke at home, provided you have access to a nuclear weapon and a backpack.

Yeah really. No problem getting a nuclear weapon but where am I gonna get a backpack?


content9.flixster.com

Approves

/link hot as stolen plutonium
 
2009-11-12 07:44:56 PM  
omnimancer28: At most chains, a tech giving medical advice would be immediately terminated. My techs are not even allowed to say "Oh, you have sniffles and post nasal drip? Take benadryl or chlortabs"

Exactly. This woman is getting pissy because she went to a pharmacy, where you can either pick your own poison or have a prescription filled out, and wanted medical advice on what to do. No. The biatch has a doctor for that.

And, going back to that, her 16 month-old son had a fever of 104, and the pediatrician just sent her off with a prescription? "Best of luck to ya! Nah, no need for emergency care... What doesn't kill him makes him stronger! Ha haaa!" (best read in the voice of Phil Ken Sebben, the boss of Harvey Birdman)
 
2009-11-12 07:45:14 PM  
i135.photobucket.com
 
2009-11-12 07:45:30 PM  
blah blah blah wake up sheeple blah blah blah
 
2009-11-12 07:45:31 PM  
omnimancer28: RoxtarRyan: Bacontastesgood: If he is a pharmacist as the article says, then yes, he is a doctor of pharmacy, and he should have years of chemistry under his belt.

My roommate? Pharmacy tech employed by CVS. High school diploma, and did 3 years in the Army as infantry. Plays WoW and D&D. Now, not to put him down, but do you want him (and all the other finely qualified personnel people who CVS employs) giving you advice on how to treat your kid for the flu based off of something he read off the internet?

At most chains, a tech giving medical advice would be immediately terminated. My techs are not even allowed to say "Oh, you have sniffles and post nasal drip? Take benadryl or chlortabs"


Absolutely correct. When I worked at a tech in NY, you were allowed to tell a patient where something WAS but you couldn't even confirm what a drug was for. They would say "What's that drug, you know the allergy medication that doesn't make you drowsy that is OTC?" and you had to get a pharmacist. "Is this good for headache?" get the pharmacist. "Where are the douches?" I'd tell 'em to check Fark.com. No, that part you can tell 'em (aisle 4), but zero about anything else. That's why pharmacists have the education they do, not so that they can count pills, but so that they can advise patients on their medication questions and provide them with compounded drugs, etc. Everything else is monkey tech work.
 
2009-11-12 07:46:14 PM  
Anyone ever extrude DXM from cough syrup using Naptha?
 
2009-11-12 07:47:21 PM  
*taking bets on how long before parents sue for their kids dying of dehydration from the vomiting from oseltamivir.
 
2009-11-12 07:49:08 PM  
suzette100: omnimancer28: RoxtarRyan: Bacontastesgood: If he is a pharmacist as the article says, then yes, he is a doctor of pharmacy, and he should have years of chemistry under his belt.

My roommate? Pharmacy tech employed by CVS. High school diploma, and did 3 years in the Army as infantry. Plays WoW and D&D. Now, not to put him down, but do you want him (and all the other finely qualified personnel people who CVS employs) giving you advice on how to treat your kid for the flu based off of something he read off the internet?

At most chains, a tech giving medical advice would be immediately terminated. My techs are not even allowed to say "Oh, you have sniffles and post nasal drip? Take benadryl or chlortabs"

Absolutely correct. When I worked at a tech in NY, you were allowed to tell a patient where something WAS but you couldn't even confirm what a drug was for. They would say "What's that drug, you know the allergy medication that doesn't make you drowsy that is OTC?" and you had to get a pharmacist. "Is this good for headache?" get the pharmacist. "Where are the douches?" I'd tell 'em to check Fark.com. No, that part you can tell 'em (aisle 4), but zero about anything else. That's why pharmacists have the education they do, not so that they can count pills, but so that they can advise patients on their medication questions and provide them with compounded drugs, etc. Everything else is monkey tech work.


Bingo bango. Even key techs, who often know more than new pharmacists, cannot give ANY medical advice. They are not covered under the malpractice insurance.

Also, while I think a pharmacist should be helpful Roxtar, that pediatrician is a farking imbecile. I would RTFA, but then I would just get pissed.
 
2009-11-12 07:50:20 PM  
omnimancer28:

And, going back to that, her 16 month-old son had a fever of 104, and the pediatrician just sent her off with a prescription? "Best of luck to ya! Nah, no need for emergency care... What doesn't kill him makes him stronger! Ha haaa!" (best read in the voice of Phil Ken Sebben, the boss of Harvey Birdman)


My two year old has an active fever response, which means he gets a 104 degree fever from a cold. I flipped out a few times, until several doctors explained that high fever, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. It's a concerning symptom in young children because it's indicative of severe infection.

YMMV, of course.
 
2009-11-12 07:51:09 PM  
tbear00304: *taking bets on how long before parents sue for their kids dying of dehydration from the vomiting from oseltamivir.

When people realize that Tamiflu makes mild flu more dangerous, I think there will be a shiatstorm of epic proportions. Every single patient coming through our pharmacy with a Tamiflu script gets a full rundown on it. Way to many people are saying "What? I cannot start taking this 3-4 days into the flu? It might make me experience more symptoms? My doctor is a dumbass?"
 
2009-11-12 07:53:19 PM  
omnimancer28: Also, while I think a pharmacist should be helpful Roxtar, that pediatrician is a farking imbecile. I would RTFA, but then I would just get pissed.

I think the most helpful they should be is saying "yep, that looks infected. You should get to a doctor", or, " yep, your eye definitely has a fork in it. You should get to the hospital. Oh, bandages? Aisle 2."
 
2009-11-12 07:56:27 PM  
RoxtarRyan: omnimancer28: Also, while I think a pharmacist should be helpful Roxtar, that pediatrician is a farking imbecile. I would RTFA, but then I would just get pissed.

I think the most helpful they should be is saying "yep, that looks infected. You should get to a doctor", or, " yep, your eye definitely has a fork in it. You should get to the hospital. Oh, bandages? Aisle 2."


When it comes to diagnosing an illness, differ to the physician. When discussion a medication though, there is no reason a pharmacist needs to send someone to a MD. A pharmacist knows more about medication (not medicine, but medication) than a general practitioner does.
 
2009-11-12 07:57:24 PM  
I don't even have kids and I know you can take any tablet, dissolve it in water, and give it to them. Now dosage can be another matter. If the drug has the same name, it's the same drug.

/obviously not a pharmacist because I can type right now.
 
2009-11-12 08:00:41 PM  
Here's how you can make any liquid medicine from capsules.

1. Open capsule.
2. Pour contents into container.
3. Drink contents of container either with or without mixing another liquid into it.

Or replace steps 2 and 3 with pour contents directly into mouth.

/duh
 
2009-11-12 08:02:50 PM  
There's no I in Tamiflu, at least not where you'd think
 
2009-11-12 08:06:24 PM  
How to make chocolate:

Step 1: Buy chocolate.
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Chocolate!
 
2009-11-12 08:13:31 PM  
feckingmorons: A good pharmacy will offer this to you. A chain pharmacy often has a pharmacist who is a contractor who does not care if you come back or not. He gets paid if he compounds your prescription or not.


You're a moron.

The chain pharmacists are every bit as good and as bad as those you'd find at independent pharmacies. Some have good ones. Some don't. The pharmacist in question in TFA is likely one of your fellow morons. Rather than just go ahead and compound it (which DOES take more time), he just brushed it off. It's also possible they were out of the syrup they use; many pharmacies have been going through it rather quickly and sometimes they can and do run out (with resupply maybe taking longer than even they might like).

There's special dedicated compounding pharmacies that deal in uncommon compounds- a local one does all kinds of funky things but they also don't take insurance. The guy who runs it decides what to charge you based on the car you pull up in and they don't take insurance. Is that the kind of customer service you're referring to?

If one pharmacy treats you like crap, go find another. The reason they don't break their backs to keep you is because you're likely such a pain in the ass that the 30 minutes it takes to take care of your sorry ass is time they could be spending prepping drugs for other customers who are good and decent people. If one person bails, so be it- they do have others.
 
2009-11-12 08:14:19 PM  
Um. You can make Tamiflu, if you have your own lab with genetically engineered E.Coli bacteria to Ferment the 60 or so kilograms of pure chinese Star Anine it takes to make just one kilogram of tamiflu and the propriatry chemicals and manufacturing process to activate, concentrate, and purify the active antiviral compound. And I highly doubt this Pharmacist knows the process, considering the other 8 steps in the process are trade secrets.

Oh, and about ten months. That's right. One dose of tamiflu takes ten months from start of production to finish.

Or, you could buy into the Woo in this article and just eat Star Anine. The amount needed to get the same antiviral effect would cause massive systemic toxicity.
 
2009-11-12 08:15:30 PM  
All the little additions that are up there by the headline for t-shirt or similar stories, but still no button to out the SUBTARD for public shaming.

//should be a voting button - after 25 people click it, a link the subtard's bio becomes available
 
2009-11-12 08:27:35 PM  
audionerd: I don't even have kids and I know you can take any tablet, dissolve it in water, and give it to them.

Just make sure that it's not a time-release capsule or enteric-coated. And that the drug is water-soluble.
 
2009-11-12 08:28:20 PM  
dahmers love zombie: Um, the directions are "Take Tamiflu capsules, open them, and mix them with liquid to make liquid Tamiflu". That's sort of like saying that you can make a backpack nuke at home, provided you have access to a nuclear weapon and a backpack.

I only need the backpack.
 
2009-11-12 08:29:21 PM  
I heard Tamiflu gives you really bad gas.
 
2009-11-12 08:35:01 PM  
neomatt: I heard Tamiflu gives you really bad gas.

I heard Tamiflu will say it only needs to crash for the night and next thing you know its two weeks later, its eaten all your hot pockets and has a key to your door.
 
2009-11-12 08:35:57 PM  
I piss Tamiflu
 
2009-11-12 08:37:38 PM  
neomatt [TotalFark] Quote 2009-11-12 08:29:21 PM
I heard Tamiflu gives you really bad gas.


There is nothing good about tamiflu...NOTHING!
 
2009-11-12 08:42:10 PM  
neomatt: I heard Tamiflu gives you really bad gas.


I didn't need Tamiflu for that.



/did I say that out loud?
 
2009-11-12 08:53:42 PM  
Well, just talking to my roommate, here's the skinny: Despite working at a chain (CVS, in his case), what a pharmacist can and can't do varies from state to state. Some states, they can prescribe and give medical advice (due to insurance liabilities varying from state to state), some they can't. In CT, they can't. They can tell someone to go to a doctor or the hospital, and can perform first-responder life-saving techniques if given proper training.

Something like this, offering to take a prescription and modify it is a complete no-no unless specifically stated by a doctor, with generic swaps of medicine not counting.
 
2009-11-12 08:58:18 PM  
Hey subby, go back to DIGG.
 
2009-11-12 08:59:39 PM  
Did you know that Tamiflu is banned in Japan? Makes you wonder if they know something we don't about the safety of the thing.

As for me, I'm doing Sambucus (black elderberry extract). It reduces the duration and severity flu symptoms very effectively. And it's cheap and tastes great.
 
2009-11-12 09:01:09 PM  
Pour a small amount (about a spoonful) of a sweet thick liquid into a cup or bowl.

Can I use a spoonful of a salty thick liquid instead?
 
2009-11-12 09:03:19 PM  
dahmers love zombie: Um, the directions are "Take Tamiflu capsules, open them, and mix them with liquid to make liquid Tamiflu". That's sort of like saying that you can make a backpack nuke at home, provided you have access to a nuclear weapon and a backpack.

Ah, good ol' radioactive boyscout

/yay Michigan!
//and radiation!
 
2009-11-12 09:03:51 PM  
dahmers love zombie: ... That's sort of like saying that you can make a backpack nuke at home, provided you have access to a nuclear weapon and a backpack.

It's been done before...
 
2009-11-12 09:04:43 PM  
omnimancer28: 1- Pharmacists are doctors.
2- Not all pharmacists are good doctors.


They don't have an MD.

They're a Pharm D.

That's like saying:
1) Lawyers are doctors.
2) Not all lawyers are good doctors.

Or

1) Engineers are doctors
2) Not all engineers are good doctors.

(JD and PhD, respectively)
 
2009-11-12 09:07:03 PM  
Marshall Willenholly: Did you know that Tamiflu is banned in Japan? Makes you wonder if they know something we don't about the safety of the thing.


And Canada doesn't trust their citizens with hydrocortisone cream as strong as we can have it here in the US, but you CAN get Tylenol III over the counter there. But wait... they don't sell OTC drugs without a pharmacist present, so none of this midnight Advil run stuff.

Then you have Mexico, where everything is legal, including snorting a dead hooker off the chest of another hooker who happens to be covered in methamphetamine and Xanax.

Different nations have different laws and different approval processes. It doesn't mean one is more sensible than the next- sometimes one place is better than another in a certain way, and worse in yet another.
 
2009-11-12 09:07:19 PM  
Tsar_Bomba1: dahmers love zombie: ... That's sort of like saying that you can make a backpack nuke at home, provided you have access to a nuclear weapon and a backpack.

It's been done before...


I'm curious but incredulous, at least initially. That Wikipedia article was definitely lacking some needed information.

/also, the sun rises in the East
 
2009-11-12 09:09:32 PM  
I'm a pharmacy intern, and I've been spending the last several months compounding liquid Tamiflu from the capsules and cherry syrup because Roche can't be bothered to deal with the national shortage of Tamiflu liquid suspension.

So I'm really getting a kick out of some of these replies.

The recipe we use at my pharmacy: break open 60 capsules and empty the contents into a glass mortar, triturate to a fine powder, suspend in 300 ml cherry syrup. Label with a 35 day beyond-use date and put in refrigerator. Gives a pretty good 15 mg/mL suspension that the kids like.

Good luck getting the insurance company to pay for it, though.

/Pharmacy intern means getting to do all the stuff the pharmacist doesn't feel like doing, but that the techs are prohibited from doing.
 
2009-11-12 09:10:16 PM  
akula: Marshall Willenholly: Did you know that Tamiflu is banned in Japan? Makes you wonder if they know something we don't about the safety of the thing.


And Canada doesn't trust their citizens with hydrocortisone cream as strong as we can have it here in the US, but you CAN get Tylenol III over the counter there. But wait... they don't sell OTC drugs without a pharmacist present, so none of this midnight Advil run stuff.

Then you have Mexico, where everything is legal, including snorting a dead hooker off the chest of another hooker who happens to be covered in methamphetamine and Xanax.

Different nations have different laws and different approval processes. It doesn't mean one is more sensible than the next- sometimes one place is better than another in a certain way, and worse in yet another.


No, you can't. You could get Tylenol 1 over the counter (generic and cheap, too) as of about five years ago, but I'm not even sure if that's true anymore. It wouldn't do much to screw you up, but it was the only damn thing that helped certain still undiagnosed abdomen pain I had on a semi frequent basis. Just ran out of it this summer, too.

/ah Windsor
//absinthe, Tylenol with codeine, and drinking at 19
///good times
////... not at the same time, mind you, but still
 
2009-11-12 09:12:04 PM  
Benjimin_Dover: Here's how you can make any liquid medicine from capsules.

1. Open capsule.
2. Pour contents into container.
3. Drink contents of container either with or without mixing another liquid into it.

Or replace steps 2 and 3 with pour contents directly into mouth.

/duh


Seriously, they make it sound like you need a goddamn PhD to mix the stuff up. My mom did it with Tylenol and strawberry syrup when I was a kid but if I saw her mixing it up I'd freak out and start crying.

/man I freakin' love strawberry syrup
 
2009-11-12 09:22:44 PM  
In hospice we always say "what can be taken orally, can be taken rectally!" Whatsa matter, don't wanna stuff capsules up your snowflake's butt?
 
2009-11-12 09:23:33 PM  
What can I do if my child cannot swallow capsules?

i237.photobucket.com
 
2009-11-12 09:35:32 PM  
RoxtarRyan: Well, just talking to my roommate, here's the skinny: Despite working at a chain (CVS, in his case), what a pharmacist can and can't do varies from state to state. Some states, they can prescribe and give medical advice (due to insurance liabilities varying from state to state), some they can't. In CT, they can't. They can tell someone to go to a doctor or the hospital, and can perform first-responder life-saving techniques if given proper training.

Something like this, offering to take a prescription and modify it is a complete no-no unless specifically stated by a doctor, with generic swaps of medicine not counting.


I'm a new pharmacy technician (worked at a hospital this summer, going back over breaks), but from what I understand, if doctors are writing a prescription for liquid Tamiflu, they wouldn't even be allowed to give the capsule form. Whether or not they can't give a compounded liquid version without calling the doctor for a new prescription first, I don't know. However, whether the insurance companies will cover the compound is a different question.

As for the person who complained about their local compounding pharmacy not taking insurance, it's with good reason. Thanks to Wal-mart starting the $4 generic list, reimbursements are low to the point that small pharmacies can't keep up. So instead of being bullied by the insurance companies, they decline to work with them, and offer customers a more personal care in return. Which might not seem like much, but when you realize the pharmacist's main job is not to count pills, but keep track of every customer's medication and the interactions between them. Basically, saving your ass if the doctor ignores the fact your medications are probably going to kill you.
 
2009-11-12 09:36:32 PM  
billandkent.com
How do you make Tamiflu? First you take hard Tamiflu capsules, then mix them with white milk and it becomes a delicious drink. That's the kind of Tamiflu I'm talking about.
 
2009-11-12 09:40:19 PM  
omnimancer28: 1- Pharmacists are doctors.
2- Not all pharmacists are good doctors.

One of the pharmacists at my pharmacy (I am an intern) is making me do all Tamiflu compounding. Not because she is busy, but because she does not know how. She has a doctorate and cannot convert capsules to milligrams to mg/ml. It is so bad in my chain that the corporate managers had to send out a cheat-sheet on compounding for the mathtards making 60 dollars an hour.


Except for the ones with a BPharm, BS in Pharmacy or a MPharm.

Littleturtle: In hospice we always say "what can be taken orally, can be taken rectally!" Whatsa matter, don't wanna stuff capsules up your snowflake's butt?

Even antacid?
 
2009-11-12 09:45:59 PM  
My name is tammy so i am gettin a kick outta this thread.

/don't have the flu though
//knock wood
 
2009-11-12 09:51:49 PM  
sminkypinky: You know that you're not going to DIE from Flu in the vast majority of cases, right?

And that Tamiflu makes you vomit real bad for the first two days?

And you get better in about 5 days with Tamiflu, or 7 without it?

How about sucking it up, taking some pain meds, and laying in bed for a week. Preferably with a large dose of 'shut the fsck up moaning'.....


Well, my 13 month old with a congenital heart defect isn't vomiting. He's actually acting much better, and only on day 2 of Tamiflu.

I was impressed with the ER people who prescribed it. They told me that if I or my wife got the flu, that we should just suck it up and take advil/motrin. They refuse to Rx tamiflu unless you *really* need it. (and, to those who were wondering... Walk in clinics freak out when you have a baby who has had 4 heart surgeries. Been there twice, been sent to the ER twice "just in case". Well, that, and to extract an extra copay out of me)
 
2009-11-12 09:52:27 PM  
sminkypinky: You know that you're not going to DIE from Flu in the vast majority of cases, right?

And that Tamiflu makes you vomit real bad for the first two days?

And you get better in about 5 days with Tamiflu, or 7 without it?

How about sucking it up, taking some pain meds, and laying in bed for a week. Preferably with a large dose of 'shut the fsck up moaning'.....


My kid was on tamiflu for 5 days this past week, no vomiting. He did have a 104 degree temp that wasn't responding to ibuprofen/acetaminophen, but after only 2 doses of Tamiflu he was fine...
 
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