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(BBC) NewsFlash Helicopters collide over Gulf   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 510
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41 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2003 at 1:15 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2003-03-22 04:10:52 AM
Does anyone know where I can get a transcript of the Iraqi Information Minister's speech? I only caught the end of it and I hear it was quite surreal.
 
2003-03-22 04:11:22 AM
HomestarJunior asks: a leaders army isnt even behind him we cant draw a conclusion that hes not very popular?

Not if defeat is a foregone conclusion. People tend to care more about their own lives than about fighting lost causes.
 
2003-03-22 04:11:29 AM
me to confabulat which is too bad, I disagree W you about some things but like your style of argument. Maybe we shall cross swords earlier sometime
 
2003-03-22 04:11:30 AM
No, I think it's just to keep Al-Jazeera from grabbing all the headlines like when we first went into Afghanistan. I can't remember if it was in this thread, or the one next door about bets that someone brought that point up (sorry, don't recall who at the moment, and can't be bothered to look), and it makes sense. They allowed the Media in on it this time, as long as they played ball, so that the Arab news agencies don't set the tone of the propaganda war. So, instead of shaky cam, low-res graphic propaganda, we get sleek, shiny propaganda with high-res 3D graphics, and nightscope green shaky cam. It would explain why this war seems to be going so much more smoothly. It's better produced.
 
2003-03-22 04:11:45 AM
"LiamWake, I think there are a number of anti-war people who would love to see Saddam removed, they just think that the peaceful solutions haven't been fully explored"

What 12 years isn't long enough? 180,000 Iraqi's have been killed since the end of Desert Storm. I'd like to see all dictators gone before I'm 60 thank you, I know it's unrealistic but arn't all great dreams.

I know that their are morons for the war, I'm saying almost everyone against the war is is a moron though. However I myself beleive this should have been a U.N. thing, or at least have Canada on the band wagon. Our idiot of a PM has destroyed Canada's record of helping in all world humanitarian efforts, which this war on Iraq is.

Even if it is all only for oil... who cares about oil? I care about humans around the world not given the chance to hate baby-killing peaceniks as much as I do.

/ this post is 2% troll
 
2003-03-22 04:11:58 AM


Yeah!! Go USA!
 
2003-03-22 04:12:17 AM
GEAH, I find it hard not to take my freedoms for granted, I'd imagine you would too. Anyway, I mainly think that there are other solutions which should have been at least attempted. For one thing, I would have allowed the inspectors to decide when they've had enough time. The peaceful plan would involve compromises and negotiations, but I think it could've been done, or at least attempted and then rejected. After that I would be inclined to support the war, but not quite because of the fabricated 9/11 links and whatnot.

A few months one way or another won't really make a difference, unless Bush is hoping that his popular support will rise after the war just in time for reelection.
 
2003-03-22 04:14:47 AM
LiamWake the peaceniks are the baby killers? It doesn't seem to me that they were the ones who solidified the power of Saddam, Pol Pot, Noriega, Pinochet, Bin Laden, etc. to begin with.

If I remember right, they were all propped up by rather conservative gentlemen and organizations to begin with.
 
2003-03-22 04:15:32 AM
LiamWake, I think we can all agree on two things:
1) Saddam is a bad man.
2) War is hell.
If you can't tell why there is so much dissent and conflict over military action in Iraq, you are not worth talking to.
 
2003-03-22 04:15:37 AM
Youve never served in the military before obviously Eraser8. and never studied history either. North Vietnam never stood a chance versus the big bad US either. But Ho Chi Mihn made them look pretty good against us didn't he? and he only started out controlling half the country. Shows the difference a popular leader and an unpopular one make dont it?
 
2003-03-22 04:16:12 AM
Confabulat, that wasn't even a nice try. I don't even think you can pretend to compare the rape and torture of innocent 12 year old girls to an adult woman who intentionally and willfully puts herself in harms way.

Geez, GEAH I thought we were talking about war here. Since you referred to Saddam as "my buddy", I just wonder what sort of reality you live in. He's not my buddy. He and his sons are some crrrrreeeeeppppy freaks. Evil squared.

On that, I think we have no argument.

But evil is everywhere in this world. Heck, I have city councilmen who are scary. But I was against this war because it's a risk, because it's a gamble, and because it's not logical, unless the US has decided to become something it wasn't. Bush made poor lies to justify it. Why are your mind so small, that you can't even do a cost/benefit analysis?

Hey, something interesting on tv, get back to you.
 
2003-03-22 04:17:17 AM
Does anyone know where I can get a transcript of the Iraqi Information Minister's speech

I would like to point out that propaganda didn't always have a negative conotation (forgive spelling please). It used to be mean "information".

Geobels - minister of propaganda (translated)
information minister (translated)

Of course if you like this, I'm preaching to the choir. If you don't, I'm brain washed by the Central Ipropaganda Agency. WEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
 
2003-03-22 04:17:22 AM
Ho Chi Mihn also had massive support from China.
 
2003-03-22 04:17:34 AM
I would agree with you if there hadn't been an obvious context. If we didn't know there was a war being waged, if we didn't know that the United States is invading Iraq, if we didn't have well-publicized press reports of Iraqi celebrations, then the photograph itself could be viewed neutrally. In this case, though, the photograph can't reasonably be regarded in that manner.

Wow, that's some serious farking dodging and reaching, dude. I'm in awe.

So what's the other potential story, Mr. "Let's View Everything Neutrally Because It Doesn't Fit My Presupposed Position"? Is he trying to suck poison out of his cheek? Did he trip and fall towards him like that? Is the Iraqi secretly in love with the American soldier, and saying "damn it all" to keeping quiet anymore, proudly proclaiming his desire with a tender kiss on the cheek?

If your twisted definition of propoganda happened to be the case, what photos COULDN'T you call propoganda?
 
2003-03-22 04:18:15 AM
I, personally, love Iraqi speechmaking...I honestly think that if our own leaders made such delusional, schizophrenic addresses they could speak for more than six minutes at a time without losing the interest of the people watching at home.

I also think that the Iraqi style is in response to a markedly different mindset...we tend to pragmatize issues, and it's served us well. Iraq, at least, often sees itself in terms of destiny and teleological, 'hope of the East,' type jazz. But still, it'd be fun.
 
2003-03-22 04:20:24 AM
"I'm talking population."

Well I'm talking what news tells me.

The fact is that both our sources are off the internet and therefore invalid. We should goto Basra and Mosul and do a head count, you up for it?

It's not my fault reporters make mistakes. You'll notice I only posted a quote from the article and a link to it, never said anything like "you dolt!" Mainly because I'm no expert on populations of middle easter countries. However Basra is 3rd largest city, and not much less in population than Mosul.
 
2003-03-22 04:22:20 AM
Confabulat

Awww, cmon all life is a gamble. And this one is working out pretty good so far.

OK so your accounting was on the conservative side, cant you see the balance sheet is going against your estimates?
 
2003-03-22 04:23:06 AM
CNN is pretty cool right now
 
2003-03-22 04:23:38 AM
Copenhagen
Yes what I saw of his speach was beyond hillarious. It was so bad the translaitor was trying not to laugh. I just want to find a copy of his speach because quotes from his speech keep turning up in news stories.
 
2003-03-22 04:23:56 AM
I think what Bill Hicks said sums it up:

"All governments are a bunch of lying cocksuckers."
 
2003-03-22 04:24:05 AM
If you look further down the page at dictionary.com's definition of propaganda, it's also the Vatican's authority in charge directing missionaries where there's no already emplaced hierarchy. This doesn't have much of a point other than, right, the word didn't always have a negative connotation and...umm...blame the Catholics.
 
2003-03-22 04:24:51 AM
I gotta agree W Copenhagen there. When Bush gave his ultimatum speech he obliquely refered to the French and I wished he had called them "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys"
In Iraq they would have done it
 
2003-03-22 04:27:19 AM
"LiamWake the peaceniks are the baby killers?"

Anyone actively slows down the ending of oppressive regimes is responisble for the horrors that occur in said regime, we are a world community, humans have got to start looking out for each other.

I'd rather my legs, arms, and even my penis than live under a repressive regime knowing that my family and friends, and future generations will suffer.
 
2003-03-22 04:28:56 AM
Just think of the fun we'll have during elections if the U.S. takes the Iraqi speech approach.
"My opponent is an ugly mercenary pig. Despite his lies he has never served in the military. Any pictures of him in the military are either photoshoped or the result of kidnapping civilians."
 
2003-03-22 04:29:16 AM
LiamWake, please don't talk about your penis.
 
2003-03-22 04:29:24 AM
I meant lose my legs, arms, etc

(i have to goto bathroom bad so im rushy my posts.. ahahgahgha gotta go now)
 
2003-03-22 04:31:01 AM
One amazing thing about this war. I've found the ultimate argumentative tool - if someone says something I don't want to be true, label it "propaganda". Then maybe throw in a laugh or two and say the opponent is a sheep or something. You just can't come back from something like that. The "other side" just assumes you know something they don't (and let's face it, you don't know "it" either), so they have to go defensive. You can't lose.
 
2003-03-22 04:31:05 AM
OK so your accounting was on the conservative side, cant you see the balance sheet is going against your estimates?

No argument there. I have some good ol pals over there in Iraq. My dad was a Nam vet. I have nothing but major props for the military. But I don't think the accounting sheet is even close to being totalled up. We used to have allies, remember?

Gonna watch this crazy CNN stuff and hit the sack.

Always fun arguing with you guys.
 
2003-03-22 04:31:24 AM
Actually I remember a line from Bill Hicks( I think it was Bill) about the first Gulf War:

"At first the press said they were the Elite Republican Guard, then once the war started they were the Republican Guard, by the end the media said "the Republicans were lying about there being guards out there"
 
2003-03-22 04:32:44 AM
Dude
this is some farked up shiat right here

watch your cnn.
 
2003-03-22 04:33:21 AM
confabulat, thx for the CNN heads-up.
 
2003-03-22 04:33:38 AM
Ah, but putting that regime in power in the first place, supplying it with weapons of mass destruction, looking the other way as it uses said weapons of mass destruction, and generally being lying cocksuckers about the whole thing carries no sort of responsibility LiamWake?
 
2003-03-22 04:34:28 AM
we will still have allies Confabulat don't worry. Too many countries need us to stay mad over a dictator they all hated anyway. This is a Tempest in a Teacup
 
2003-03-22 04:34:57 AM
You're definitely downplaying it, Thales, it's probably go something like "Though it appears in the limp-dicked publications fostered by the foul machinations of my opponent that I am in fact losing the election, this is nothing more than the blantant deceit of a frightened lapdog. Even now, his unholy spawn rig polls in their attempt to putrify our national essence as the most pure of all peoples."

Except that's not going far enough either...they'd never ever even begin to admit the possibility that losing even existed for them.
 
2003-03-22 04:35:17 AM
That live feed looks like it's being run through realplayer.
 
2003-03-22 04:35:41 AM
Crazy. Why does so much of this war look like my old Sega CD on TV?

Hell, Windows Media is clearer.

later.
 
2003-03-22 04:35:50 AM
ahh, the cnn coverage

male announcer: "just keep rolling" (film I assume. Maybe he meant to keep going)
female: "just keep safe"
 
2003-03-22 04:35:56 AM
And once again Confabulat it was nice sparring W someone W perspective. I can get into the namecalling too but its more fun to argue ideas
 
2003-03-22 04:36:20 AM
DOOM we didn't put the regime in power. They were already in power when we started to suport them.
 
2003-03-22 04:36:27 AM
If you don't have CNN try your local ABC affiliate.
 
2003-03-22 04:38:50 AM
Yeah I havent thought much of the choppy coverage the media has been gaga over either. Tell them that DSL or Cable modem are worth the extra money
 
2003-03-22 04:39:52 AM
Copenhagen we both forgot to through in the Zionist accusations. Plus I'm sure there would be something about how their opponent's own mother hates him and wishes that he would die.
 
2003-03-22 04:40:09 AM
Why, what's going on?
 
2003-03-22 04:41:00 AM
DOOM, that regime came into power through a coup that we had nothing to do with. US sales of weapons to Iraq are nothing compared to Britain, German, French, and Russian sales.

Shawn Pickrell, someone I regard as one of the most unbiased people here on fark gave a breakdown of the amount of weapons each individual country has sold to Iraq in billions of dollars.

The US was in the double digit millions.

Britain was in the triple digit millions, I think something like 360.

Germany was over 3 billion.

France was over 9 billion.

Russia was over 31 billion.

Who's responsible now?
 
2003-03-22 04:41:20 AM
Somebody set off a nuke? Godzilla appeared in the desert?
 
2003-03-22 04:42:10 AM
Thales is correct, and as Ive said before we supported Iraq to check Iran, who looked like a bigger threat at the time. Ynow we supported the Taliban Vs the USSR too? We even trained Bin Laden to fight the Russians. Too bad our crystal ball aint perfect. I guess that means we should give up and never make a stand again?
 
2003-03-22 04:42:30 AM
DOOM: Marines encountered Iraqi resistance near oil wells by Basra. Live feed from embedded CNN journalist.
 
2003-03-22 04:42:35 AM
DOOM one of the imbedded reporters is reporting live while marines blow shiat up and take some fire.
 
2003-03-22 04:42:45 AM
Why, what's going on?

Someone shot an RPG at a group of Marines from a village near Basra.
 
2003-03-22 04:44:37 AM
I have no TV... someone help me...
 
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