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(BBC) NewsFlash Helicopters collide over Gulf   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 510
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37 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2003 at 1:15 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2003-03-22 02:36:52 AM
Eraser

your post....
...



is propaganda.
 
2003-03-22 02:38:13 AM
Can someone post that picture of those Iraqis dancing after we liberated that one town?
 
2003-03-22 02:38:55 AM
Bbcrackmonkey writes: the reason those Iraqis leaving Jordan are so pro-Saddam is because they haven't had to live with the asshole for awhile.

I don't think they are under any illusions about the kind of man Saddam is. I think they simply believe that the United States is a greater threat, that a home grown autocrat is better than an invading infidel. That may be an unfortunate legacy of this conflict.

They've lived in Jordan, which is pretty tolerant by Middle-Eastern standards

Actually, Iraq is the most liberal, secular state in the Middle East. Dissent against the government isn't allowed; but, people -- especially women -- enjoy a lot more freedoms than people in most neighboring states.
 
2003-03-22 02:39:05 AM
WE ARE SUPERPOWER OF AL CAPONE.
 
2003-03-22 02:39:35 AM
Jesus Frickin' H. Christ if their ain't a load of ignorant armchair quarterbacking going on in here.

This is a WAR people. The soldiers, sailors and airmen are handling sophisticated, dangerous equipment while under a shiatload of stress (being in a combat zone will do that to you), pushing the limits of their endurance, often on little or no sleep. War isn't a 9-5 job. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN - they're undesireable, but understandable.

As far as media coverage of our casualties goes, this is the SAME type of shiat they pulled with Somolia; microanalyze every single friendly casualty into the ground, and totally glossing over if not outright ignoring enemy casualties.

"OMFG! NEWSFLASH! 19 American Rangers were slaughtered like sheep and dragged through the streets of Somolia! OMFG! *cough*inothernewstheyheldtheirownagainstandentirecityandinflicted1500enemycas ualties*cough*
 
2003-03-22 02:40:22 AM
WebbMonkey writes: your post...is propaganda.

Then you can't possibly know what the word 'propaganda' means.
 
2003-03-22 02:42:31 AM
The Afghan gov said 1,700... not sure if that was civilians or a total.

"But, I was quite startled by a report from the BBC on the situation at the border of Iraq and Jordan."

Ummm... what report? I want a link to said report.
 
2003-03-22 02:42:39 AM
Eraser8, Iraq may be secular but to say it is liberal is pure lunacy. Jordan is a much better place to live in than Iraq as they won't shoot you for disagreement. Jordan is ruled by a very moderate Hashemite king who is not a very faithful Muslim at all.
 
2003-03-22 02:43:40 AM
I think any soldier being gutted and dragged through a street would get a lot of coverage, considering it's either on of ours, who we love, or it was done by someone who's supposedly better than that since they're on our side. To be honest, I don't think anyone actually blamed the people or the government for the problem. Except for me, but I don't really hold them responsible for it. shiat happens everywhere, it just gets more attention when there's already camera rolling on scene.
 
2003-03-22 02:43:51 AM
Actually Eraser8, he's right. Your post was propaganda...it was information presented to advance a certain belief. Of course, what you hear on the nightly news is propaganda and newsletters put out by the Sierra Club are propaganda. There's very little out there that isn't.
 
2003-03-22 02:45:08 AM
i knew that was coming..im runing off 0 sleep...

alright just give me some links..some videos.. some credible sorces of evidence. and i might belive you.

till then your talking out of your ass
 
2003-03-22 02:45:37 AM
I am still having a breakdown of Eraser8's logic here when he said "Iraq is the most liberal, secular state in the Middle East."

That boggles the mind...
 
2003-03-22 02:46:52 AM
Bbcrackmonkey writes: Iraq may be secular but to say it is liberal is pure lunacy.

It's liberal by Middle Eastern standards. There is freedom of religion (deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz is a Roman Catholic), women can drive and hold jobs, nightclubs and dancing are perfectly legal and so forth. It isn't even close to the harshly regimented life one would experience in Kuwait or Iran or Saudi Arabia. Jordan is fairly liberal too; but, like Iraq it is a dictatorship. And, unlike Iraq, Jordan doesn't even pretend to be a democracy.
 
2003-03-22 02:48:10 AM
eraser8

yes, actually, i DID see it on fox news.


and it still doesnt change the fact that the vast majority of iraqi's, especially the ones still there, welcome american troops.
 
2003-03-22 02:48:41 AM
I love how the pro-war nuts always go on and on about Iraqi propaganda, but suck up everything that the Pentagon says as if it was the Gospel.

Yeah, they'll tell us the truth. Sure. Because our government would never lie to us.

Whatever. By all indications, this war is so far turning out well, but then again, our troops haven't actually gotten to Baghdad yet. You morons (I'm looking at you GEAH) who treat this like it's a big college football game are really sad, sad human beings. Rah, rah, sis boom bah. Kill, kill. I roomed with an Iraqi back in 93, he was a hell of a guy, and Gulf War I had really destroyed his family. It's not funny to kill people. Simple-minded fool.

That said, I hope it gets over with soon so we can all get on with our lives. Especially those of us who are stationed over there.
 
2003-03-22 02:49:55 AM
Sidi writes: it was information presented to advance a certain belief.

The BBC broadcast may have been issued as propaganda; but, my post was not. The distinguishing feature of propaganda is the intent of the person or organization who spreads the information. There was no intention on my part to advance a particular cause or a particular set of beliefs.
 
2003-03-22 02:50:33 AM
All facts pertaining to Iraq's political ideology, it's quite misleading to say "most liberal." "Least conservative", although still laughable, sounds more feasible. Otherwise, you're implying that it's liberal in some fashion, as opposed to just lacking in conservation, if that word can be used in the same sense.
 
2003-03-22 02:50:41 AM
GCD

this is kind of late but you said they were over water, no sand there.

2 things

1 they took off from land and there was sand there

2 I was in the Navy during the first war and had to wash sand off the ship while out to sea enough to tell you there WAS sand there
 
2003-03-22 02:50:43 AM
We are killing more of ourselves than the enemy is killing us. Go figure.
 
2003-03-22 02:50:55 AM
Alph writes: the vast majority of iraqi's, especially the ones still there, welcome american troops.

What are you basing that on? A few celebrations in southern towns?
 
2003-03-22 02:52:32 AM
Bah, that should be "blah blah, ideology aside, it's etc."
 
2003-03-22 02:53:15 AM
Eraser8, Iraq isn't even liberal by middle-eastern standards. It is merely secular. It is run by a fascist dictator who emulates Joseph Stalin and his only legally allowed party is the Ba'ath party, whose stated goal is Arab Nationalism. The people living under it are slaves to the gov't and anyone who disagrees with the gov't is tortured, raped, and shot. If you think the Soviet Union was liberal under Stalin, then yes I suppose you would think that Saddam Hussen's Iraq is liberal.

The only Middle-Eastern country that you could fairly call liberal is Israel.
 
2003-03-22 02:53:16 AM
then your just trolling.. no-ones gonna ever belive you.. just argue with you.. over and over...untill this link has 400 posts.. and were gonna fell no better. just be in a endless circle of bullshiat.
 
iam
2003-03-22 02:53:17 AM
Oops.
 
2003-03-22 02:54:24 AM
I was leaving work this afternoon and accidently overheard Rush Limbaugh. (I like the morning show on that station, and had left it on...otherwise I'd never have heard that moron). This was about noon EST and "shock and awe" had not started yet.

Rush was saying, "Well, looks like we not may have 'shock and awe' after all. That's too bad, I know I was looking forward to it."

This is exactly what's wrong with people like Rush Limbaugh, and those who mindlessly parrot him. He was LOOKING FORWARD to watching people die. That's like saying, wow, "9/11 sure was great TV, huh!"

But them Iraqis are dirty huh.
 
2003-03-22 02:54:48 AM
Eraser8

There was no intention on my part to advance a particular cause or a particular set of beliefs.

I'd say that, by posting your opinion on a public forum, you are advancing a particular set of beliefs.

Of course, this is splitting hairs. A definition of "propaganda" that can be reduced to "anyone speaking his/her mind is propaganda" isn't exactly a useful definition.
 
2003-03-22 02:54:50 AM
eraser8
do you really believe that most of the iraqi's would rather US troops not come through their cities?
 
2003-03-22 02:55:23 AM
"I love how the pro-war nuts always go on and on about Iraqi propaganda, but suck up everything that the Pentagon says as if it was the Gospel."

Funny cause I'm prowar and I don't have a TV, have never even seen or listened to anything the Pentagon says.

Yet most anti-war people scream "No Blood for Oil," which pretty much sounds like they are all sucking up whatever hippies on TV have written on their signs.

"I hope it gets over with soon so we can all get on with our lives"

Thats what seperates the pro-war people with the protestors, pro-war people actually want to change the world for the better.
 
2003-03-22 02:55:27 AM
Bbcrackmonkey writes: Iraq isn't even liberal by middle-eastern standards.

Then how do you explain the freedoms Iraqis exercise -- some of which I listed -- that are denied to people in neighboring states?
 
2003-03-22 02:55:30 AM
To nitpick, Eraser8, technically you were advancing the belief that that individual photo was propoganda, and then proceeded to follow it up by talking about the Jordan-Iraqi border. If we're going to be picky about propoganda, let's not do a half-ass job here.
 
2003-03-22 02:57:03 AM
BTW, just another tidbit of information, I believe Amnesty International has said that Iraq maintains the largest percentage of its population in prison than any other country on earth, and from all I've read it also kills its own citizens faster than any other country in the Middle East except possibly Syria. No other ME country has used chemical weapons on its own citizens either. By all accounts Iraq has one of the tightest police states in the world. It is definitely a much greater abuser of human rights than any of its neighbors, despite the fact that women enjoy equal rights and there is no Sharia Law in effect.
 
2003-03-22 02:58:21 AM
This is exactly what's wrong with people like Rush Limbaugh, and those who mindlessly parrot him. He was LOOKING FORWARD to watching people die. That's like saying, wow, "9/11 sure was great TV, huh!"

I've noticed this too. I want us to be better than that.
 
2003-03-22 02:58:41 AM
Alph asks: do you really believe that most of the iraqi's would rather US troops not come through their cities?

I can't speak for MOST Iraqis one was or another. I am sure that SOME will welcome US troops; and, I am equally sure that SOME will be chagrined. But, again, I have no reasonable basis on which to conclude how MOST Iraqis feel. It is likely that you have no basis for that judgment either.
 
2003-03-22 02:59:47 AM
It's odd that the "using chemical weapons on his own people" thing keeps cropping up. Why is it worse to use Sarin to kill someone than to use a conventional 1,000 pound bomb? It's just a silly distinction.
 
2003-03-22 02:59:51 AM
pro-war people actually want to change the world for the better.


This statement speaks for itself. Until recently, I didn't know ANYONE was pro-war.

Go figure.
 
2003-03-22 03:00:04 AM
"What are you basing that on? A few celebrations in southern towns?"

Well actually the SECOND BIGGEST CITY.
(post may take a few hours to become true)

"Arab Nationalism"

German Nationalism... hmmmm.. sound familar?
 
2003-03-22 03:00:36 AM
It's been a bad week for helicopters.
 
2003-03-22 03:03:26 AM
I sure hope the world leaders are reading this post and decide to come to a peaceful solution.

Otherwise we are all just wasting our time here.
 
2003-03-22 03:03:39 AM
Sidi, the physical effects of chemical weapons aren't useful compared to the psychological horror they cause and the horrible pain the victim suffers before they die. Chemical weapons scare the shiat out of people because you can't see them, and it is scary to think you will be poisoned. It also scares the Shiites in the south greatly to think that they might be gassed. That's why Saddam keeps his chemical weapons despite the threat of war. Because he needs them to scare the living shiat out of his populace into thinking they could get gassed like the Kurds did.
 
2003-03-22 03:03:50 AM
Sputnik456 writes: technically you were advancing the belief that that individual photo was propoganda

By that reasoning, it is propaganda to post that 2+2=4.

That's simply not a reasonable definition.
 
2003-03-22 03:03:56 AM
Bbcrackmonkey

Israel is pretty rough on Palestenians (re: Muslims) too

fact is its a tough area full of hatred at the boiling point. I love you peacenic idiots trying to tell the rest of us that we could have achieved peace there.

HELLO

for more than 2000 years there has been no peace there. Many men far better than you and I, and far better than Carter, Clinton and either Bush too have tried and failed. The bible says that conflict there shall last till Armageddon. And that accurate prediction is one of the slivers of doubt that keeps me agnostic rather than atheist.
 
2003-03-22 03:04:10 AM
Thang God the Canadians aren't getting in the way.
 
2003-03-22 03:04:31 AM
BBC reporter just now: "It was shocking and it was awesome." I sure hope he means that in the biblical sense. No one should enjoy seeing a city on fire.
 
2003-03-22 03:04:54 AM
I don't mean for my statement to compare our bombing to Saddam. I'm just saying that the fact is he slaughtered people because they were members of a minority group, but people keep saying it like it's only the method that makes it horrific.
 
2003-03-22 03:04:56 AM
Yes, Thang God indeed.
 
2003-03-22 03:04:58 AM
Pro-war would be a bit of a misnomer. I imagine it was adopted because anti-war popped up first and is accurate, and when the other side spoke up, they needed a generalization that was on topic, such as pro-war. Since technically, they are for a war in Iraq, they would be pro-war, although few rational humans are pro-waringeneral. Now I feel stupid since I'm sure you were just pointing out the irony of the label. Definitely time for bed when people ignore me and I still point out inconsistencies that don't matter.
 
2003-03-22 03:05:06 AM
Just heard that there was at least one american on one of those brit copters.
 
2003-03-22 03:05:30 AM
The bible says that conflict there shall last till Armageddon. And that accurate prediction is one of the slivers of doubt that keeps me agnostic rather than atheist.

An excellent observation. And a good point.
 
2003-03-22 03:07:21 AM
The whole pro-war, anti-war thing can be twisted any way you want.

You can be anti-war, or pro-Saddam.

Pro-war, or anti-peace.

Pro-life, or anti-choice.

Pro-choice, or anti-life.

It's just silly semantics.
 
2003-03-22 03:08:10 AM
yah, but both pro-war and anti-peace sound pretty darned bad.
 
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