At this point, does it really take a rocket scientist to see that we're screwed? We can't keep borrowing/printing our prosperity forever.

This makes me long for the starry-eyed innocence of the Tulip Bubble.

katemonster: Karl Bacardi: This makes me long for the starry-eyed innocence of the Tulip Bubble.

My father used to talk about the housing market and tell people, "Real estate is just the newest tulip! Just you wait!" It was fun to watch people get confused. Every once in a while, someone would get the reference, but it was rare.

In the late 90s, my favorite game store started selling Beanie Babies. I asked the owner why his place was suddenly inundated by fat middle-aged women in sweat pants. He said, "This Beanie Baby thing is a gold-mine!"

Right around that time, I just happened to read "The Madness of Crowds" by Charles MacKay, which deals heavily with Tulip Mania. It was easy to see the connection, and I had to ask myself how this guy had figured out the Beanie Baby craze in 1841.

Back in my Econ 201 class sometime back in 1994 the professor would name drop and talk about how he'd called up Greenspan to yell at him about his farked up managing of the Fed. Or he'd go off on a tangent about how this massive wave was coming and we were all going to get swept up in it and there was basically nothing we could do.

Goodtimes....

Tickle Mittens: Back in my Econ 201 class sometime back in 1994 the professor would name drop and talk about how he'd called up Greenspan to yell at him about his farked up managing of the Fed. Or he'd go off on a tangent about how this massive wave was coming and we were all going to get swept up in it and there was basically nothing we could do.

Goodtimes....

The bigger problem isn't the rates being held too low, it's the new expansive powers granted by congress to the Fed. The goal seems harmless: eliminate vast swings in the business cycle, however in reality the suppression and regulation is stifling small business and investment to the point where recovery and any expansion will cease. The baffling part of this whole economic mes is the complete disdain for the small business owners. Every business cycle we have experienced has be been pulled through on the backs of the american entrepreneurs, not big business, corporate buyouts, and massive government spending. Mini-bubble may be necessary to remind the us that our economic policies are fallible. By playing a blind eye to the bigger issues, we're going to be in a whole world of hurt. Downturns are bad, but if our long-run growth is purposely curtailed in the name of "protecting the citizens"...we'll be in seriously more trouble

2009 is the new 1930

/oh no, this time its different...nope...same!

Shhh! 0bama is at the helm and nothing will go wrong with him there. And when it does, he will "Blame Bush" and all the readers at the DailyKooks will rejoice.

/fark too

WhyteRaven74: eurotrader: when talk about the next bubble occurs so later they can say the never heard about it.

Plenty of economists said bubbles can't happen, a little something called efficient market theory.

Hobodeluxe: SouthernManDunWrong: Shhh! 0bama is at the helm and nothing will go wrong with him there. And when it does, he will "Blame Bush" and all the readers at the DailyKooks will rejoice.

/fark too

oh shut up you cock. people like you and the people you elected are responsible for this crisis. from Reagan on the conservatives (and a few "moderate" democrats)have been building this giant deficit and deregulated economy.
and not satisfied with that you go off starting wars and not paying for them.

so stfu.

If that's true, we're also responsible for the growth in the 90's so STFU.

ghare: ghare: change you can believe in.

Yup.

record unemployment with new standards of normalcy.

$1100 an ounce gold

Still in Iraq

Guantanamo is still open

And Healthcharity, if passed, does not kick in until 2013

Hobodeluxe: SouthernManDunWrong: Shhh! 0bama is at the helm and nothing will go wrong with him there. And when it does, he will "Blame Bush" and all the readers at the DailyKooks will rejoice.

/fark too

oh shut up you cock. people like you and the people you elected are responsible for this crisis. from Reagan on the conservatives (and a few "moderate" democrats)have been building this giant deficit and deregulated economy.
and not satisfied with that you go off starting wars and not paying for them.

so stfu.

I know, you hate Bush and have to blame him. But the reality is we have a wet behind the ears POTUS that doesn't give a rat's rear end if you have a job or if your children have a future.

hope and change that none of us can believe in

thank god congress is on this and not spending time on some program to make the economy worse.

Submitter: America is about to be hit...

Actual article: Reserve and other government central banks are fueling a massive new asset "bubble" that -- while not in imminent danger of bursting -- will someday do so with calamitous consequences.

You might try actually READING the article.

Can we retire the "electric boogaloo" theme? Pretty please?

FTA"The Fed and other policymakers seem unaware of the monster bubble they are creating," writes Roubini. "The longer they remain blind, the harder the markets will fall." Haven't we seen this movie before?

They are very aware. They are doing everything in their power to stop deflation and it still isn't working.

eurotrader: everyone in Congress just puts their fingers in their ears and shouts "I am not hearing you" when talk about the next bubble occurs so later they can say the never heard about it.

Pretty much this. The entire congress and federal reserve were apparently blind to the housing bubble when it was glaringly obvious to anybody who bothered to pay attention. I never re-allocated my 401k back into stocks because I knew this was a sucker's rally. Get ready for the real pain, folks. Don't come to me whining about how your 401k isn't worth its peak value, you've been warned.

Saw the I.O.U.S.A. documentary last night, these little asset bubbles are nothing compared to what's down the road. We really are farked.
We have $53 trillion in obligations (Social Security, Medicare etc) due to be paid out by 2030 or so. How much we have set aside for that = $0.00
Awesome.

Hobodeluxe: SouthernManDunWrong: Shhh! 0bama is at the helm and nothing will go wrong with him there. And when it does, he will "Blame Bush" and all the readers at the DailyKooks will rejoice.

/fark too

oh shut up you cock. people like you and the people you elected are responsible for this crisis. from Reagan on the conservatives (and a few "moderate" democrats)have been building this giant deficit and deregulated economy.
and not satisfied with that you go off starting wars and not paying for them.

so stfu.

So republicans ruin the economy and the democrats heal/expand it? Oh my god I never knew, spread the word! If more people knew this, then all our economic problems would be solved by voting 'D' unanimously for now on!!!

Marshmallow Jones: We have $53 trillion in obligations (Social Security, Medicare etc) due to be paid out by 2030 or so. How much we have set aside for that = $0.00
Awesome.

The answer is simple.

Calm down everyone.

We'll get a new war for all this shiat! That's what we've been doing since the forties. We won't pay for anything, brown people will with their viscera! It's great for the economy!

Raptop: Can we retire the "electric boogaloo" theme? Pretty please?

It's a lazy way to get a cheap laugh, what can you do?

Everything This guy says is true with one exception.

Inflation.

The only way this guys arguement remains true is if the government reported the true rate of inflation and adjusted for it. However its been a long standing truth that the government has many reasons to NOT report the true rate of inflation and provide a faked baked number.

These asset price increases are most likely the result of an underlying inflationary pressure the government will not admit to and not an asset bubble.

Meh. Every generation has its Great Horrible Evil.

When I was a young squirt, it was all duck and cover and we're all going to die by age 30 in one apocalyptic nuclear war.

Before that it was the Great Depression, the dust bowl, a world war that probably killed 80 million people and the end of life as we (they) know it.

I sometimes think people aren't happy unless they have an element of doom, Doom I say, in their lives.

GoodyearPimp: The answer is simple.

She better be god damn good in bed, if she's $53 trillion.

Marshmallow Jones: Saw the I.O.U.S.A. documentary last night, these little asset bubbles are nothing compared to what's down the road. We really are farked.
We have $53 trillion in obligations (Social Security, Medicare etc) due to be paid out by 2030 or so. How much we have set aside for that = $0.00
Awesome.

THIS

wolvernova: Pretty much this. The entire congress and federal reserve were apparently blind to the housing bubble when it was glaringly obvious to anybody who bothered to pay attention. I never re-allocated my 401k back into stocks because I knew this was a sucker's rally. Get ready for the real pain, folks. Don't come to me whining about how your 401k isn't worth its peak value, you've been warned.

I've been debating diversifying it. Just not sure into what.

dofus: I sometimes think people aren't happy unless they have an element of doom, Doom I say, in their lives.

Oh, you'll enjoy this latest article about Peak Oil, then:

Link (new window)

Marshmallow Jones: Saw the I.O.U.S.A. documentary last night, these little asset bubbles are nothing compared to what's down the road. We really are farked.
We have $53 trillion in obligations (Social Security, Medicare etc) due to be paid out by 2030 or so. How much we have set aside for that = $0.00
Awesome.

Medicare is the big one. And the real scary thing is that that isn't the result of Medicare being a "broken" system in the classical sense. It's because that's the largest portion of spending that is connected to our health care system. That horrible ballooning of prices will happen across the board and keep basic healthcare out of the hands of all but the richest among us. Yet another thing you can thank the boomers for.

dofus: I sometimes think people aren't happy unless they have an element of doom, Doom I say, in their lives.

It's true, I don't have much doubt that if I came of age in the cold war era I'd be the kind of guy itching for a bomb shelter. But still, the danger was real then. And there's real danger now... if we make some farsighted choices we will be better off, and of course "collapse" never happens as completely as the doomsayers say. Still. After the last couple of years I take people making fun of the doomsayers with a grain of salt.

poisonedpawn78: Everything This guy says is true with one exception.

Inflation.

The only way this guys arguement remains true is if the government reported the true rate of inflation and adjusted for it. However its been a long standing truth that the government has many reasons to NOT report the true rate of inflation and provide a faked baked number.

These asset price increases are most likely the result of an underlying inflationary pressure the government will not admit to and not an asset bubble.

It would be interesting to see the true numbers on inflation. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there wouldn't be pressure to "cook the books".

Everything from union contracts to rent is indexed to inflation. T-Bills and Municipal Bonds would be farked in a high inflation environment. Investors would demand a higher interest rate or a reduction in capital gains tax (for T-Bills) to cover inflation. If inflation climes too high, investors will treat it as a defacto default.

I always thought it was strange that you need a pretty hefty security clearance to work at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics.

CarnySaur: Raptop: Can we retire the "electric boogaloo" theme? Pretty please?

It's a lazy way to get a cheap laugh, what can you do?

Plus it tastes like chicken.

ptelg: If that's true, we're also responsible for the growth in the 90's so STFU.

You do realize that the "growth in the 90's" is all part of the bubble, right? This has been coming for decades, not the last 3 presidential administrations--it has been building since the 1970s. Much (not all) of our growth is a fiction. Which would explain why we're so far up shiat creek on this. Blaming Bush or Clinton doesn't really do or say much. It shows a limited understanding of what is happening, as if something this big could ever be pinned to one person. Many politicians, economists, bankers and businesses are to blame. Many consumers are to blame too. Ultimately, our country as a whole appears unable to show restraint any more, period.

ParadigmLeftShift: dofus: I sometimes think people aren't happy unless they have an element of doom, Doom I say, in their lives.

Oh, you'll enjoy this latest article about Peak Oil, then:

Link (new window)

Interesting article thanks

Le Grand Inquisitor: The bigger problem isn't the rates being held too low, it's the new expansive powers granted by congress to the Fed. The goal seems harmless: eliminate vast swings in the business cycle, however in reality the suppression and regulation is stifling small business and investment to the point where recovery and any expansion will cease. The baffling part of this whole economic mes is the complete disdain for the small business owners. Every business cycle we have experienced has be been pulled through on the backs of the american entrepreneurs, not big business, corporate buyouts, and massive government spending. Mini-bubble may be necessary to remind the us that our economic policies are fallible. By playing a blind eye to the bigger issues, we're going to be in a whole world of hurt. Downturns are bad, but if our long-run growth is purposely curtailed in the name of "protecting the citizens"...we'll be in seriously more trouble

Baffling? haha.

Your fairy tale of "downturns" and "business cycles" is entertaining but something bigger is happening here.

The power to create money out of nothing and control the economy has been has been put into the hands of a small cartel of private bankers for a long time now. In the US they have called themselves "the Fed". The scam is economic slavery and it has gone global. It is the new world order. Were screwed.

crazytrpr:
It would be interesting to see the true numbers on inflation. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there wouldn't be pressure to "cook the books".

Everything from union contracts to rent is indexed to inflation. T-Bills and Municipal Bonds would be farked in a high inflation environment. Investors would demand a higher interest rate or a reduction in capital gains tax (for T-Bills) to cover inflation. If inflation climes too high, investors will treat it as a defacto default.

I always thought it was strange that you need a pretty hefty security clearance to work at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics.

Imagine how hard it would be to navigate the current "crisis" if there was also an acknowledged 7% inflation (just to pick a number).

sparkmysmeg: The power to create money out of nothing and control the economy has been has been put into the hands of a small cartel of private bankers for a long time now. In the US they have called themselves "the Fed". The scam is economic slavery and it has gone global. It is the new world order. Were screwed.

If only we could return to the halcyon days of the 1890s.

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: ptelg: If that's true, we're also responsible for the growth in the 90's so STFU.

You do realize that the "growth in the 90's" is all part of the bubble, right? This has been coming for decades, not the last 3 presidential administrations--it has been building since the 1970s. Much (not all) of our growth is a fiction. Which would explain why we're so far up shiat creek on this. Blaming Bush or Clinton doesn't really do or say much. It shows a limited understanding of what is happening, as if something this big could ever be pinned to one person. Many politicians, economists, bankers and businesses are to blame. Many consumers are to blame too. Ultimately, our country as a whole appears unable to show restraint any more, period.

Started with Bretton Woods accords and it made worse by succeeding administrations not recognizing what was happening.

For all the Bretton Woods effectively made the US dollar the international reserve currency and pegged it to gold. While technically not on the gold standard in practice that what it was until Nixon took us off the gold standard. The All mighty Dollar made everything "made in the USA" prohibitively expensive to to export and just about everything else cheap to import. By 1968 the rest of the industrialized world had recovered from being bomb flat by WWII, so we were starting to see serious compition from abroad. Throw in the Quality issues and labor strife we were having in the 1970s and the lingering effects of the Vietnam War Spending and the rest is history. The net result, We hemorrhaged jobs.

The High dollar also made credit cheap for US and it allowed us to run deficits "without tears" for decades until now. It allowed consumers to overspend. It allowed businesses to expand knowing full well there was going to be a serious correction. Giving us the illusion of prosperity, it was a great ride, now its over.

People have been saying a collapse was coming for at least 2 decades now. They could say when it was going to happen. Peak oil circa 2030 along with our own medicare, social security, and pension crisis (new window) its shaping up to be the perfect storm.

NJ is just one example of a pension crisis brewing for states and cities across the country.

Raptop: Can we retire the "electric boogaloo" theme? Pretty please?

The above reflects my sentiments.

poisonedpawn78: crazytrpr:
It would be interesting to see the true numbers on inflation. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there wouldn't be pressure to "cook the books".

Everything from union contracts to rent is indexed to inflation. T-Bills and Municipal Bonds would be farked in a high inflation environment. Investors would demand a higher interest rate or a reduction in capital gains tax (for T-Bills) to cover inflation. If inflation climes too high, investors will treat it as a defacto default.

I always thought it was strange that you need a pretty hefty security clearance to work at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics.

Imagine how hard it would be to navigate the current "crisis" if there was also an acknowledged 7% inflation (just to pick a number).


At least it will be an accurate number we can plan with. Bogus numbers just makes the problem worse. We are acting like an addict who won't look in the mirror.

Scary thing about inflation is one it starts to approach 10%, it gets unpredictable. 10% today, 100% tomorrow. Its bad enough if you know the real numbers. If the government is "cooking the books", god help us, how can we make a decision on what to do without making it worse? Do we really want to add a conspiracy to cook the books on top of a looming economic and political crisis? It would be fodder for every radical right wing or left wing organization in the country.

It would be fare better for Potus (Obama in this case) to go on camera and say today we are fighting deflation, in coming years we are going to see inflation and admit that we are going to raise interest rates, cut spending and keep taxes the same or raise them a bit to combat inflation and pay down the debt. Then he should give hard and projected numbers that aren't cooked.
We would be better off by fixing the multitude of problems. It would suck, but I'm too old to live in a Weimar Republic. 10-12 years ago I would have said bring it on, "Lock and Load,I don't give farrrrkkkk!!!". Today I have a wife and kid, so I give a fark.

I think if the next financial crisis happens in a year or two, the Fed is getting the axe. I say it's time for our people to suffer greatly. We have to learn our ways.

But then again we are out of touch with Washington, not the other way around.

Wow there's a lot misplaced blame in this thread. Nice to see we learned the right lessons from this market collapse and what it has wrought.

/queue *welcome to fark.jpg*

GoodyearPimp: Marshmallow Jones: We have $53 trillion in obligations (Social Security, Medicare etc) due to be paid out by 2030 or so. How much we have set aside for that = $0.00
Awesome.

The answer is simple.

You may be sad jessica, but you are beautiful. Lets have sex.

/Logan's Run

multipurposesolution: Raptop: Can we retire the "electric boogaloo" theme? Pretty please?

The above reflects my sentiments.

Word