Tr0mBoNe: Countdown to the Yankees signing him as a 'reclamation project' begins now.

That's not the Yankees MO.

See: Epstein, Theo.

JJ Putz would be an awesome buy-low signing.

The Tigers also have a lot of interest in him after trying hard to acquire him last year, and in their favor he's a Michigan native. Also, JJ isn't half the putz the rest of that Mets team combines to be, glad to see him leaving for greener pastures (read: anywhere else)

Wise_Guy: Tr0mBoNe: Countdown to the Yankees signing him as a 'reclamation project' begins now.

That's not the Yankees MO.

Quite true. When you can afford to have zebra meat flown in, why buy from the day-old bin at your local supermarket.

Wise_Guy: Tr0mBoNe: Countdown to the Yankees signing him as a 'reclamation project' begins now.

That's not the Yankees MO.

See: Epstein, Theo.

Don't see the how the Wagner comparison works? Had a decent season as soon as he left the Mets.

deltabourne: JJ Putz would be an awesome buy-low signing.

For serious. I expect the Angels to pursue him to help cure bullpen woes.

He was plainly unhappy about having to set up when he was dealt to NY, I would imagine that would have had to affect his performance. I think any team that lets him close is going to have a freaking monster for a reasonable price.

lilbjorn: Wise_Guy: Tr0mBoNe: Countdown to the Yankees signing him as a 'reclamation project' begins now.

That's not the Yankees MO.

Quite true. When you can afford to have zebra meat flown in, why buy from the day-old bin at your local supermarket.

The Sox can afford zebra meat.

They just choose to eat ground chuck in front of the help to give the appearance of having no money so they can plead poverty when it comes time for Christmas bonuses.

As a Mariners fan to all you Mets fan I say "You're welcome".

ryanguy7890: As a Mariners fan to all you Mets fan I say "You're welcome".

May go down as the SECOND greatest Mariners trade with a NY team this side of Phelps for Buhner.

amoricanCrowe: ryanguy7890: As a Mariners fan to all you Mets fan I say "You're welcome".

May go down as the SECOND greatest Mariners trade with a NY team this side of Phelps for Buhner.

I expect many more with Jack Z at the helm.

phils will take him at league minimum, hey Lehigh Valley ain't that bad of a place to spend a couple months getting "tuned up" :-)

What else are the Mets gonna do? It ain't like he's worth anything close to 8 million bucks. Let's be honest, he was flat out bad last year and he wasn't that good the year before. He wouldn't be the first guy to get it back... but he wouldn't be the first guy to have a couple good years and drift away either. Smart move by the mets.

Cagey B: He was plainly unhappy about having to set up when he was dealt to NY, I would imagine that would have had to affect his performance. I think any team that lets him close is going to have a freaking monster for a reasonable price.

Because, clearly, pitching with the bases empty in the 8th inning is far different than pitching with the bases empty in the 9th inning.

He was hurt. It had nothing to do with "set-up" nonsense.

Daniels: Cagey B: He was plainly unhappy about having to set up when he was dealt to NY, I would imagine that would have had to affect his performance. I think any team that lets him close is going to have a freaking monster for a reasonable price.

Because, clearly, pitching with the bases empty in the 8th inning is far different than pitching with the bases empty in the 9th inning.

He was hurt. It had nothing to do with "set-up" nonsense.

iirc there are some decent statistics on "closers" and putting them in non-save situations.

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Tr0mBoNe: Countdown to the Yankees signing him as a 'reclamation project' begins now.

Crap. I should have known that was coming.

bhcompy: iirc there are some decent statistics on "closers" and putting them in non-save situations.

Yes & no. In general, yes, the raw numbers for closers tend to be worse in non-save situations than in save situations. In particular, from 1980 to 2007, we have the following breakdown for all closers:

ERA (SS): 2.91
ERA (NS): 3.15

OPS (SS): .629
OPS (NS): .652

BB/9 (SS): 3.08
BB/9 (NS): 3.39

K/9 (SS): 8.12
K/9 (NS): 7.79

It's not a huge difference, but it is there.

However, it's hard to make a conclusion here, for one very big reason: when do closers usually pitch in non-save situations? When they haven't worked in awhile. Relievers tend to do worse if they haven't worked in awhile. So are we just seeing that, or is there something else here, too?

It's worth noting that someone looked at Trevor Hoffman, and he had 5 seasons where he was clearly better in save situations, and 4 seasons where he was clearly better in non-save situations, though, in general, he demonstrates splits like everyone else.

What I would really like to see is the BABIP breakdown. If a pitcher has a significantly higher BABIP in non-save situations, that might suggest that the fielders are actually to blame.

(and here's my sources for this: Closers and Non-Save Situations (google cache version), and Does Trevor Hoffman struggle in non-save situations?)

DeWayne Mann: bhcompy: iirc there are some decent statistics on "closers" and putting them in non-save situations.

Yes & no. In general, yes, the raw numbers for closers tend to be worse in non-save situations than in save situations. In particular, from 1980 to 2007, we have the following breakdown for all closers:

ERA (SS): 2.91
ERA (NS): 3.15

OPS (SS): .629
OPS (NS): .652

BB/9 (SS): 3.08
BB/9 (NS): 3.39

K/9 (SS): 8.12
K/9 (NS): 7.79

It's not a huge difference, but it is there.

However, it's hard to make a conclusion here, for one very big reason: when do closers usually pitch in non-save situations? When they haven't worked in awhile. Relievers tend to do worse if they haven't worked in awhile. So are we just seeing that, or is there something else here, too?

It's worth noting that someone looked at Trevor Hoffman, and he had 5 seasons where he was clearly better in save situations, and 4 seasons where he was clearly better in non-save situations, though, in general, he demonstrates splits like everyone else.

What I would really like to see is the BABIP breakdown. If a pitcher has a significantly higher BABIP in non-save situations, that might suggest that the fielders are actually to blame.

(and here's my sources for this: Closers and Non-Save Situations (google cache version), and Does Trevor Hoffman struggle in non-save situations?)

The question is does that include people like JJ Putz and Eric Gagne who went from good to top form as a closer to mediocre to poor form as a reliever/setup?

bhcompy: The question is does that include people like JJ Putz and Eric Gagne who went from good to top form as a closer to mediocre to poor form as a reliever/setup?

No. JJ Putz was a good reliever who had a two-year stretch where he simply ceased walking people. On the Mets, he was hiding an injury and sucked.

Eric Gagne simply threw his arm off. When you live with a 100 MPH fastball and you suddenly can't throw that anymore, you cease bringing anything to the table.