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(Yahoo)   Over the past few years, Californians have suffered a devastating epidemic of diseases and illnesses, all of which, strangely, only medical marijuana can cure   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 227
    More: Unlikely, Californians, medical marijuana, state Attorney General Jerry Brown, epidemic, city councilman, ballot initiatives, illness, diseases  
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7058 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Nov 2009 at 11:07 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



227 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2009-11-06 08:33:52 AM  
Californians have suffers

You were high when you submitted this, weren't you?
 
2009-11-06 08:39:42 AM  
as I recall it did help when I was there
 
2009-11-06 08:46:06 AM  
I haz a suffer.
 
2009-11-06 08:56:11 AM  
In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.
 
2009-11-06 09:06:59 AM  
Sybarite: In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.

I just saw a commercial for Restless Leg Syndrome, and now I have it too!

Seriously, how the f*ck do the pharmaceutical companies get away with advertising that crap in the U.S.?
 
2009-11-06 09:28:34 AM  
Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.
 
2009-11-06 09:55:38 AM  
I feel something coming on. It was the second hit that did it.
 
2009-11-06 09:57:12 AM  
I reads that headline and notices a spelling error.
 
2009-11-06 09:58:06 AM  
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: I just saw a commercial for Restless Leg Syndrome, and now I have it too!

Seriously, how the f*ck do the pharmaceutical companies get away with advertising that crap in the U.S.?


If you live in California, you're in luck.
 
2009-11-06 10:03:22 AM  
legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.
 
2009-11-06 10:08:32 AM  
CA residents usually suffer from a severe Pb deficiency in the cranium.We should help them, starting with the valley girls and dudebros.
 
2009-11-06 10:08:46 AM  
jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.
 
2009-11-06 10:19:30 AM  
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Seriously, how the f*ck do the pharmaceutical companies get away with advertising that crap in the U.S.?

Idiots in power who got bribed think that what's good for business is good for America.
 
2009-11-06 10:20:32 AM  
Tr0mBoNe: jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


Yeah. I'm trying to figure out if that post was sarcasm, Tr0mBoNe.
 
2009-11-06 10:24:17 AM  
FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.

Yeah, then we'll have black men raping white women left and right, and people jumping out of windows daily. Think of the children!
 
2009-11-06 10:25:18 AM  
Tr0mBoNe: Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


I do and have for nearly 15 years, and suffer few side effects - certainly not "lung butter." I don't smoke cigarettes and mix smoking with vaporizing and edibles, exercise and a healthy diet. Sure I hack a bit if I inhale too much or some really heavy shiat. It's not the medicine for everyone and maybe other people already have lung butter to hack up.

There are a lot of studies to inform yourself of the benefits it does provide. Here's a place to start.

Or you could just look at it from a personal freedom standpoint.
 
2009-11-06 10:28:50 AM  
Sybarite: In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.

I'll never understand why they advertise drugs on TV. I mean, I understand it because it sells drugs but for one thing, you never know what the drug even is. It's always just some chick running through a field or some old guy lying on the beach with a raging hard on. I guess in that case you know what the drug is for.

Then there's the 20 seconds of disclaimers. "Side effects may include mild fatigue, bleeding from the asshole and death". And finally, why is it your responsibility to tell your doctor about this pill? If your doctor hasn't heard of it, you should probably find another doctor.
 
2009-11-06 10:38:41 AM  
jonasborg: Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it...dude.

FTFY

FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.

Damn straight.
 
2009-11-06 10:43:50 AM  
doglover: CA residents usually suffer from a severe Pb deficiency in the cranium.We should help them, starting with the valley girls and dudebros.

It's been a long time since you were in the States, hasn't it? Nothing like throwing out a 20-year-old reference to make it obvious.
 
2009-11-06 10:45:21 AM  
FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.

This times one billion.

Twenty years from now everyone's going to wonder what the big deal was and why it was ever illegal to begin with.
 
2009-11-06 10:53:03 AM  
Racht: FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.

This times one billion.

Twenty years from now everyone's going to wonder what the big deal was and why it was ever illegal to begin with.


They'd be too high to remember either way.
 
2009-11-06 11:09:45 AM  
So they abuse the system. Big deal, it's just pot.
 
2009-11-06 11:11:20 AM  
Lets get one thing straight people.

It it not a medicine. Many people act like it is some magical, wonderful panacea. Many people at my stoner college (UCSC) argued that it cured glaucoma and treated cancer.

It only helps ease the pain.

It is Therapeutic Weed.
 
2009-11-06 11:12:23 AM  
I was in California last week. In Los Angeles the dispensaries are everywhere. There are ads in newspapers and magazines.

Society hasn't broken apart, the world didn't end.
 
2009-11-06 11:13:15 AM  
Teknowaffle: It it not a medicine.

It's not medicine in the same way that morphine is not medicine.

It doesn't cure your mallady, but it doesn't take your mind off the pain.
 
2009-11-06 11:20:53 AM  
Same is true of back pain. The only thing that seems to cure it is when the doctor shuts off the supply of percs and oxys.
 
2009-11-06 11:21:21 AM  
i257.photobucket.com
 
2009-11-06 11:22:10 AM  
You don't need to smoke it. You can make some great cookies!
 
2009-11-06 11:22:10 AM  
I've got some really sick coworkers myself.
 
2009-11-06 11:23:16 AM  
Tr0mBoNe: jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


Vaporizers. And brownies.
 
2009-11-06 11:23:27 AM  
jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxicalternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Is that like when something is advertised as "virtually pain-free", meaning there's pain?
 
2009-11-06 11:23:42 AM  
Philip J. Fry: Teknowaffle: It it not a medicine.

It's not medicine in the same way that morphine is not medicine.

It doesn't cure your mallady, but it doesn't take your mind off the pain.


You'd think that politicians of both parties would be lining up to prescribe it to the general public as Election Day approaches every year.
 
2009-11-06 11:24:42 AM  
You do all realize the Federal Govt has no constitutional claim for regulating / outlawing pot right? If it hadn't overstepped its bounds this would be a state level issue and solved already by being legal most everywhere.

Farking neocons claiming they want less govt. Until it comes to pot.
 
2009-11-06 11:25:31 AM  
How do we know it DOESN'T cure diseases if we don't all smoke it all the time?
 
2009-11-06 11:28:07 AM  
Since it's tangentially related to this thread, does anyone have any experience with LED grow lights?

/not a smoker
//not a grower
 
2009-11-06 11:28:08 AM  
I find it amazing that in 2009, medical science hasn't come up with a better pain medication than inhaled smoke from a burned weed.
 
2009-11-06 11:28:17 AM  
What are YOU doin in Canada man?

//obscure?
 
2009-11-06 11:28:23 AM  
Ah just leave the MJ Californians alone and go after the illegals that smuggle it in, or devastate our wild areas with their clandestine grow ops that use harsh fertilizers and banned pesticides.
 
2009-11-06 11:28:58 AM  
Sybarite: In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.

Those illnesses are caused by small demons living under your toenails.
 
2009-11-06 11:29:07 AM  
Peace in Medicine marijuana dispensary is a clean, modern operation in a former auto dealership.

So, all the cars outside are for completely different reasons now.
 
2009-11-06 11:30:03 AM  
Zer0ne: Is that like when something is advertised as "virtually pain-free", meaning there's pain?

You see, if I had said non-toxic, someone may have argued that it has a very high LD50 (about 1500 lbs smoked over 15 minutes), but certainly isn't non-toxic.
 
2009-11-06 11:30:49 AM  
Teknowaffle
it not a medicine. Many people act like it is some magical, wonderful panacea. Many people at my stoner college (UCSC) argued that it cured glaucoma and treated cancer.

Research shows that it is just as effective as any other treatment available for glaucoma. Some people may not want to put solutions directly on ther eyes and might prefer something more easily taken. And even if you don't want to smoke it there are alternatives.
 
2009-11-06 11:31:50 AM  
Racht: Twenty years from now everyone's going to wonder what the big deal was and why it was ever illegal to begin with.

I figure it'll move from being illegal/forbidden fruit appealing to legal/disreputable, much the way tobacco is today.

Right now, the use of Mary Jane is seek as counter-culture, stickin' it to The Man, all the cool kids are doing it. This is aside and totally separate from whatever neurochemical properties it actually does possess.

How's that going to work when the product is legal, freely available, and the allure has worn off, like it has for tobacco? How cool are you going to be when you're a victim of Big Marijuana, you poor bastard, you, exploited by the soulless corporations that prey upon the cravings that they themselves caused? Congrats, dude, you bought some kind bud, whoopdy-freaking-do; I scored some awesome bottled water, let's see who starts sounding like Pauli Shore first.

I say legalize it, but I don't see a bright new world opening up to us as a result of freely available ganja.
 
2009-11-06 11:32:46 AM  
Tr0mBoNe: jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.



There's side effects from doing something constantly, every day?

Holy cow!!!
 
2009-11-06 11:34:45 AM  
Sxooter: You do all realize the Federal Govt has no constitutional claim for regulating / outlawing pot right? If it hadn't overstepped its bounds this would be a state level issue and solved already by being legal most everywhere.

Farking neocons claiming they want less govt. Until it comes to pot.
Or abortions, or buttsex, or boobies on TV.


It's that damned "interstate commerce" clause in the constitution. It's been stretched so far and thin so as to federalize anything that might relate to anything else that might have a subtle effect on something that could potentially cross state lines where a transaction of currency for goods or services may or may not occur.
 
2009-11-06 11:34:56 AM  
jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Tr0mBoNe: Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

Uh. . . see above. Besides, by this logic, tobacco should be illegal.

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: I just saw a commercial for Restless Leg Syndrome, and now I have it too! Seriously, how the f*ck do the pharmaceutical companies get away with advertising that crap in the U.S.?

It's an unfortunate side effect of Free Speech. Trust me, the fix would be far worse than the problem.

Teknowaffle: Lets get one thing straight people. It it not a medicine. Many people act like it is some magical, wonderful panacea. Many people at my stoner college (UCSC) argued that it cured glaucoma and treated cancer. It only helps ease the pain. It is Therapeutic Weed.

Okay, fair enough. Let's compare it against our competitors:

Acetaminophen (Tylenol)
Cheap, time-tested painkiller, but if you overdose too much, your liver fails and you die.
Status: OVER-THE-COUNTER

Morphine
Effective painkiller, but a high risk of physical addiction.
Status: CONTROLLED (Schedule II)

Tetrahydrocannabinol (Cannabis)
Good at alleviating pain and nausea. No/minimal threat for overdose or physical addiction.
Status: ILLEGAL BY FEDERAL LAW (Schedule I)
 
2009-11-06 11:35:01 AM  
As a citizen of the fine city of Los Angeles who will stop on the way home from work to get some "medicine" for my Friday night "anxiety", I'm getting a kick...


/they're everywhere, like McDonalds out here
//seriously
///God I love the ineptitude of our city council
 
2009-11-06 11:37:16 AM  
EdNortonsTwin: Tr0mBoNe: jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


There's side effects from doing something constantly, every day?

Holy cow!!!


Damn skin cancer. I knew I shouldn't have went outside or started eating red meat.
 
2009-11-06 11:38:10 AM  
Teknowaffle: It it not a medicine.

Gary Storck and Robert Randall would like to have a talk with you.

Gary Storck has said that the cannabis has allowed him to cut back on other prescription drugs and has saved his eyesight.

Robert Randall successfully sued the federal government to get cannabis as medicine for his glaucoma and they supplied him up to his death.
 
2009-11-06 11:39:06 AM  
Bossk'sSegway: Damn skin cancer. I knew I shouldn't have went outside or started eating red meat.

You can get skin cancer from meat?
 
2009-11-06 11:39:46 AM  
plausdeny: How's that going to work when the product is legal, freely available, and the allure has worn off, like it has for tobacco?

Let's ask the Dutch
 
2009-11-06 11:39:56 AM  
Zer0ne 2009-11-06 11:28:08 AM

I find it amazing that in 2009, medical science hasn't come up with a better pain medication than inhaled smoke from a burned weed


Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 11:30:49 AM

Teknowaffle
it not a medicine. Many people act like it is some magical, wonderful panacea. Many people at my stoner college (UCSC) argued that it cured glaucoma and treated cancer.

Research shows that it is just as effective as any other treatment available for glaucoma. Some people may not want to put solutions directly on ther eyes and might prefer something more easily taken. And even if you don't want to smoke it there are alternatives.



C'mon people, are you really wasting time arguing medicinal benefits? It's enjoyable, relatively harmless, and it's insane that it's illegal.
All the medicine talk is just a smokescreen for the straights.
 
2009-11-06 11:40:10 AM  
SpocksEars: As a citizen of the fine city of Los Angeles who will stop on the way home from work to get some "medicine" for my Friday night "anxiety", I'm getting a kick...

Out of academic curiosity, how exactly would that work? Don't you need a prescription to get it? Would one just go to a quack to get said prescription? Are there little to no controls on dispensing?
 
2009-11-06 11:40:24 AM  
Zer0ne

I find it amazing that in 2009, medical science hasn't come up with a better pain medication than inhaled smoke from a burned weed.

They have. Ever hear of heroin?

The problem with pain killers (this includes weed) for chronic pain is that your body will start to produce inhibitors in the brain, creating tolerance. So long-term chronic pain is NOT well treated by cannabis ... or just about every painkiller out there.

Now, marijuana for chemotherapy patients, that's a much better example.
 
2009-11-06 11:40:31 AM  
Racht: Twenty years from now everyone's going to wonder what the big deal was and why it was ever illegal to begin with.

There's going to be a lot of Hollywood movies with drug dealers as bad guys which are just going to look embarassing afterwards.
 
2009-11-06 11:41:44 AM  
Tr0mBoNe: Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


Jellybeans (when fired at my mouth from a howitzer) have been known to break teeth. THEY SHOULD BE BANNED.

/FOR THE CHILDREN
 
2009-11-06 11:43:59 AM  
FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.


Step two--? ... Oh wait, you had it covered.
 
2009-11-06 11:44:08 AM  
My uncle, a long time stoner, just recently moved back to the bay area. He got a job at a dispensary and immediately got a medical marijuana card for "stress". I was somewhat put off by this at first, he doesn't have a condition that requires pot, he's gaming the system. But then I thought, "the system is stupid anyway, why not game it?" If the guy wants to smoke pot he should be able to, if it means he has to fake a medical condition to do so safely then more power to him.
 
2009-11-06 11:44:40 AM  
jonasborg: plausdeny: How's that going to work when the product is legal, freely available, and the allure has worn off, like it has for tobacco?

Let's ask the Dutch


We'll mark that down as confirming my hypothesis, then.
 
2009-11-06 11:44:48 AM  
Your point?
 
2009-11-06 11:46:13 AM  
Sxooter,

You're right, but that argument died with the Alien and Sedition acts and was buried by the 14th amendment.

You prohibitionists, I have only one question. Why is your doctor smart enough to prescribe virtually any drug- morphine, dilaudid, cocaine, you name it- but can't be trusted with pot? What about pot is so dangerous that even medical professionals can't be trusted with it?

(unless it's Marinol and then doesn't work anyway.)
 
2009-11-06 11:49:15 AM  
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Sybarite: In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.

I just saw a commercial for Restless Leg Syndrome, and now I have it too!

Seriously, how the f*ck do the pharmaceutical companies get away with advertising that crap in the U.S.?


It's true, I just saw a Cialis commercial and now I have an overwhelming need to drag to 1000 pound bathtubs and an old lady up the side of a mountain.

\Seriously, how the fark did they get those tubs there? I'm thinking helicopter.
 
2009-11-06 11:50:50 AM  
A (welcome) problem if we do legalize it is dealing with distribution. The existing system is NOTHING like the tobacco industry, and frankly those sh*theads spent a lot of time and money making a less-safe product and hiding research about the facts related to their product.

A nice model is something like the microbrew model. That gives me some hope that our society could legalize and sell marijuana without breeding a clusterf*ck that maintains a black market.
 
2009-11-06 11:51:09 AM  
plausdeny: Right now, the use of Mary Jane is seek as counter-culture, stickin' it to The Man, all the cool kids are doing it. This is aside and totally separate from whatever neurochemical properties it actually does possess.

Agreed. The most despairing thing about legalization will be that Republicans will start smoking it.

And that will farking suck.
 
2009-11-06 11:52:27 AM  
Marijuana is far more effective at treating the "human condition" than alcohol or other drugs are.
 
2009-11-06 11:52:49 AM  
Rush Limbaugh approves.
 
2009-11-06 11:53:36 AM  
Tr0mBoNe: Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


That would be none. Nice troll though.

1/10

/you got one for lung butter
 
2009-11-06 11:54:33 AM  
scandalrag 2009-11-06 11:49:15 AM

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Sybarite: In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.

I just saw a commercial for Restless Leg Syndrome, and now I have it too!

Seriously, how the f*ck do the pharmaceutical companies get away with advertising that crap in the U.S.?

It's true, I just saw a Cialis commercial and now I have an overwhelming need to drag to 1000 pound bathtubs and an old lady up the side of a mountain.

\Seriously, how the fark did they get those tubs there? I'm thinking helicopter.



It's hard to tell drug ads from tampon and douche ads anymore. You have to watch more than half the ad to even know what the hell it's for.
 
2009-11-06 11:54:38 AM  
Just make it legal.
 
2009-11-06 11:54:42 AM  
Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.
 
2009-11-06 11:55:48 AM  
scandalrag:
It's true, I just saw a Cialis commercial and now I have an overwhelming need to drag to 1000 pound bathtubs and an old lady up the side of a mountain.

\Seriously, how the fark did they get those tubs there? I'm thinking helicopter.


I'm guessing the guy stacked the tubs and his lady on to his enormous erection and played the role of the superhuman naked sherpa. That's how farkin' amazing Cialis is.
 
2009-11-06 11:56:09 AM  
yelenashuster.files.wordpress.com

oh come on, this guy looks legit.
 
2009-11-06 11:56:48 AM  
Oh, and as to why you have to "ask your doctor about...", your doctor knows about it. If he thought you needed it HE would have brought it up. OTOH, if you ask him for something by name he might try to talk you out of it but will probably just relent if he doesn't think it's going to hurt you. Customer is always right.

That's why we have MRSA and VRE as well as all the drug ads.

Chalk one up for Capitalism in Medicine.
 
2009-11-06 11:57:28 AM  
Baby Diego: A (welcome) problem if we do legalize it is dealing with distribution. The existing system is NOTHING like the tobacco industry, and frankly those sh*theads spent a lot of time and money making a less-safe product and hiding research about the facts related to their product.

A nice model is something like the microbrew model. That gives me some hope that our society could legalize and sell marijuana without breeding a clusterf*ck that maintains a black market.


If you don't think corporate agribusiness will throw millions of acres at marijuana, you're kidding yourself.

Small, expensive boutique brands will always be there, but the "Budweiser of pot" (hell, call it Bud Wiser) will prevail as the #1 brand.
 
2009-11-06 11:57:45 AM  
memphisto: You prohibitionists, I have only one question. Why is your doctor smart enough to prescribe virtually any drug- morphine, dilaudid, cocaine, you name it- but can't be trusted with pot? What about pot is so dangerous that even medical professionals can't be trusted with it?

It would really hurt Bayer's sales.
 
2009-11-06 11:58:11 AM  
farkeruk: Racht: Twenty years from now everyone's going to wonder what the big deal was and why it was ever illegal to begin with.

There's going to be a lot of Hollywood movies with drug dealers as bad guys which are just going to look embarassing afterwards.


Drug dealers are still bad guys, but that's only because they never had the sense to form a farking union.
 
2009-11-06 11:58:16 AM  
doubled99:
C'mon people, are you really wasting time arguing medicinal benefits? It's enjoyable, relatively harmless, and it's insane that it's illegal.
All the medicine talk is just a smokescreen for the straights.


I'm just pointing out a well documented fact relating to his point that it's not medically applicable to glaucoma patients. I don't know really the effects for cancer, and I don't care to research it, but the information is out there contending his point. I also agree, there's no reason it should be illegal if alcohol and cigarettes aren't.
 
2009-11-06 11:59:38 AM  
vylasaven: Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.

I wonder if there is something to this. Maybe it is not blind, jingoistic infatuation with obeying the Rule of Law that keeps them from smoking. Maybe it is staunch dedication to close-mindedness.

That would be hilarious if it was legalized and then the mormons or someshiat tried to pass new laws to re-ban it based on bogus or unfounded claims.
 
2009-11-06 12:00:28 PM  
Headline and article were not related, but I would like to know the answer from the headline. Anyone know there way around the CDC database?
 
2009-11-06 12:01:44 PM  
Crown_of_Shoes: plausdeny: Right now, the use of Mary Jane is seek as counter-culture, stickin' it to The Man, all the cool kids are doing it. This is aside and totally separate from whatever neurochemical properties it actually does possess.

Agreed. The most despairing thing about legalization will be that Republicans will start smoking it.

And that will farking suck.


Maybe they'll ease up a bit? For all we know, the stick might finally fall out, which would be a boon for society.
 
2009-11-06 12:03:14 PM  
scandalrag: Seriously, how the fark did they get those tubs there? I'm thinking helicopter.

I'm thinking greenscreen. Thanks to CGI, nothing you see on TV ever actually happened.
 
2009-11-06 12:03:52 PM  
Way to mess up a good thing.
 
2009-11-06 12:03:55 PM  
NannyStatePark: Marijuana is far more effective at treating the "human condition" than alcohol or other drugs are.

Whoaaa, dudebro - that was like....whoaaaa!

I just came across this little gem: Link (new window)

Hea hea hea...
 
2009-11-06 12:04:17 PM  
Crown_of_Shoes
That would be hilarious if it was legalized and then the mormons or someshiat tried to pass new laws to re-ban it based on bogus or unfounded claims.

If we start letting Salt Lake decide the drug laws then Pepsi and Nescafe will be illegal.
 
2009-11-06 12:04:41 PM  
vylasaven: Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.

The 7th sign....
 
2009-11-06 12:05:53 PM  
jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

I don't like to smoke, thank you.

Is edible cannabis still an alternative?.
 
2009-11-06 12:06:03 PM  
Same thing happening in Colorado right now; the med mj laws that got passed about 19 yrs ago are finally really being noticed/utilized and I know several people who have gotten their pot permits. Out of the few I know, only one has medical conditions that are severe enough to warrant the use of medical mj-cancer survivor, arthritis, chronic pain. So, more power to her. However, several of the younger people I know have gone to doctors from lists and for a fee of anywhere from $175-265 the doc will write them a recommend for medical mj-anything from bone spurs, to anxiety and yes, stress. That can't possibly be legal, can it? It'll be those morans who end up ruining this for those who truly need help. And, I'm pretty sure that raids on the dispensaries is not too far off seeing as this has gotten so much press in my state recently.

/ramble off
 
2009-11-06 12:07:08 PM  
argylez

That would be none. Nice troll though.

Sorry, but as an occasional marijuana (and devil's) advocate I simply can't accept that you can inhale smoke daily - with all the free radicals coming along for the ride - and suffer absolutely no ill effects.

All things in medicine are risk vs benefit. What are the risks of smoking pot daily versus the benefits shown? The benefits are well established. The lack of risk isn't, with a lot of research papers leaning either way. The common intersection between cigarette and marijuana use makes studying that risk harder (but not impossible).
 
2009-11-06 12:07:58 PM  
memphisto: Crown_of_Shoes
That would be hilarious if it was legalized and then the mormons or someshiat tried to pass new laws to re-ban it based on bogus or unfounded claims.

If we start letting Salt Lake decide the drug laws then Pepsi and Nescafe will be illegal.


Mormons have been known to ingest caffiene of copious amounts, dude bro!

/Girlfriends family is mormon
//They sure love their cola
 
2009-11-06 12:11:08 PM  
vylasaven: Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.


I hope you guys don't seriously believe this, do you?
Republicans don't smoke weed? You should really expand your horizons a little. I smoke, and I'm pretty farkin far from a republican, but the thought that if people smoke, their minds will expand and they'll become liberal democrats is a little naive.
And if you think that a world with everyone smoking weed would be peaceful, I would like to introduce you to some members of the Crips, Bloods, or LaRaza here in SoCal.
 
2009-11-06 12:11:57 PM  
Cthulhu Theory: memphisto: Crown_of_Shoes
That would be hilarious if it was legalized and then the mormons or someshiat tried to pass new laws to re-ban it based on bogus or unfounded claims.

If we start letting Salt Lake decide the drug laws then Pepsi and Nescafe will be illegal.


Mormons have been known to ingest caffiene of copious amounts, dude bro!

/Girlfriends family is mormon
//They sure love their cola


Canned, sweet and fizzy phosphoric acid with flashy ad campaigns. Sounds safe to me.
 
2009-11-06 12:11:58 PM  
memphisto: Oh, and as to why you have to "ask your doctor about...", your doctor knows about it.

Chris Rock said something to the effect that if you have to tell your doctor what medication you need, he's no longer a doctor. He's a dealer.
 
2009-11-06 12:12:37 PM  
Just let the people smoke. I don't give a flying fark about marijuana, medical or otherwise. I've never seen a person fly off the handle while smoking pot, and believe me, I've been around a few too many wastes of life, I mean pot heads.

Don't get me wrong, they all have jobs, they all pay their bills, they even do non-pot-related activities. That being said, they still prefer to spend their spare cash on weed.

Make marijuana legit and we can tax it. Keep it on the black market, and it's lost tax revenue.
 
2009-11-06 12:14:39 PM  
tricycleracer

If you don't think corporate agribusiness will throw millions of acres at marijuana, you're kidding yourself.

Oh, I expect it. I just hope to hell that someone other than the tobacco industry leads the way. A cigarette is a LOT more than tobacco while a black market bag of marijuana is (99+% of the time) just marijuana.

Small, expensive boutique brands will always be there, but the "Budweiser of pot" (hell, call it Bud Wiser) will prevail as the #1 brand.

I suspect you're right but I also wonder what kind of quality the market would demand right away. There is a surprising amount of competition in the black market today and quality is in demand. But that's just my neck of the woods.

/"Wise Bud" would keep you out of trademark court
 
2009-11-06 12:15:16 PM  
doubled99: vylasaven: Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.


I hope you guys don't seriously believe this, do you?
Republicans don't smoke weed? You should really expand your horizons a little. I smoke, and I'm pretty farkin far from a republican, but the thought that if people smoke, their minds will expand and they'll become liberal democrats is a little naive.
And if you think that a world with everyone smoking weed would be peaceful, I would like to introduce you to some members of the Crips, Bloods, or LaRaza here in SoCal.


Where exactly did he say they would become liberals? Please highlight and underline the specific points in his statement that equate this argument. He's suggesting that they would more readily listen to what the opposition has to say, is all, rather than being a bunch of stubborn asshats who act like children and name call when they don't get their way. Also, I'm sure the gangmembers you speak of do more than just MJ, perhaps some coke and definitely copious amounts of booze.
 
2009-11-06 12:16:43 PM  
EdNortonsTwin: Cthulhu Theory: memphisto: Crown_of_Shoes
That would be hilarious if it was legalized and then the mormons or someshiat tried to pass new laws to re-ban it based on bogus or unfounded claims.

If we start letting Salt Lake decide the drug laws then Pepsi and Nescafe will be illegal.


Mormons have been known to ingest caffiene of copious amounts, dude bro!

/Girlfriends family is mormon
//They sure love their cola

Canned, sweet and fizzy phosphoric acid with flashy ad campaigns. Sounds safe to me.


I personally love the way the acidic content eats away at my stomach! It enables you to feel all that carbonation tickling your tummy even better!
 
2009-11-06 12:16:50 PM  
Cthulhu Theory: doubled99:
C'mon people, are you really wasting time arguing medicinal benefits? It's enjoyable, relatively harmless, and it's insane that it's illegal.
All the medicine talk is just a smokescreen for the straights.

I'm just pointing out a well documented fact relating to his point that it's not medically applicable to glaucoma patients. I don't know really the effects for cancer, and I don't care to research it, but the information is out there contending his point. I also agree, there's no reason it should be illegal if alcohol and cigarettes aren't.


To address the cancer issue, the greatest benefits of marijuana for cancer patients are for people who are undergoing chemotherapy. The radiation frequently causes severe nausea and vomiting and there is no drug, other than marijuana, that is as effective as an antiemetic. The reason being that most of the other drugs that have been created to fight nausea are in pill form and need to be swallowed. The problem with that is that patients frequently vomit the pill right back up before it has had an opportunity to be absorbed by the system. Smoked marijuana is absorbed instantly, and takes effect immediately.

The other major benefit that's related to this issue is the wasting issue experienced by cancer and AIDS patients. They frequently have a great deal of difficulty eating and marijuana is very effective at stimulating their appetite.

So, don't know if you wanted to know all that, but there you go.
 
2009-11-06 12:18:46 PM  
Baby Diego: I suspect you're right but I also wonder what kind of quality the market would demand right away.

Budweiser is 5% ABV for a reason, but 5% beer is a joke to a beer geek. You really have to wonder what the market will demand.

I think it will be a real kick to the head of weed-culture when their beloved plant is advertised in Maxim alongside ads for Ford Mustangs and Axe bodyspray.
 
2009-11-06 12:20:45 PM  
Or perhaps, when something with a wide variety of uses is legalized for those uses, it gets used.

Imagine that.
 
2009-11-06 12:20:46 PM  
Cthulhu Theory

I personally love the way the acidic content eats away at my stomach! It enables you to feel all that carbonation tickling your tummy even better!

Cola (pH >2) does a better job on your stomach lining than the hydrochloric acid already in there (pH <2)?
 
2009-11-06 12:22:28 PM  
tricycleracer

I think it will be a real kick to the head of weed-culture when their beloved plant is advertised in Maxim alongside ads for Ford Mustangs and Axe bodyspray.

No, they'll just do like every other hobby group out there and take comfort in their superiority for reading High Times and smoking the local microbrew.
 
2009-11-06 12:24:18 PM  
Baby Diego: Cthulhu Theory

I personally love the way the acidic content eats away at my stomach! It enables you to feel all that carbonation tickling your tummy even better!

Cola (pH >2) does a better job on your stomach lining than the hydrochloric acid already in there (pH <2)?


You don't drink HCL Cola? It's got Moles.
 
2009-11-06 12:24:22 PM  
joeflood:

Make marijuana legit and we can tax it. Keep it on the black market, and it's lost tax revenue.


Do you really want the government involved in the control of yet another substance to tax and control all the supply of? I mean, tobacco I can kinda get since it takes quite a bit of acerage, water, fertilizer, etc as well as curing/drying facilities to produce, but how well do you (or anyone in this thread, it's an open question) think it would work for the government to come in and say "ok, it's all ours, no way you can produce it and you have to buy it from a regulated shop." I mean, it doesn't take anywhere near the amount of resources for John Smith down the street to do a little homegrown. I don't see how govenment regulation would ever stop this, it's just not the same. And on that note, I don't see how tax revenues could be improved if it was legalized, there would probably be a drastic uptick in illegal cultivation.

/tobacco farming was the best example I could come up with, so please be gentle
//no good answer for the cannabis dilemma, as far as I can tell
 
2009-11-06 12:25:26 PM  
Shostie:
Out of academic curiosity, how exactly would that work? Don't you need a prescription to get it? Would one just go to a quack to get said prescription? Are there little to no controls on dispensing?


To all you poor unfortunates living in other parts of the country, I feel for you.

I NOW PRESENT TO YOU: GETTING YOUR GROOVE ON IN LA

STEP ONE
Go to any one of the brazillion doctors* in the area who do nothing but hand out "recommendations" from a tiny office in a strip mall. Tell them you have any BS malady you can think of (anxiety, back pain, etc). He takes your blood pressure, and asks a few dumb questions. You pay him $50-$100 (it varies) for a one-year "recommendation" (a sheet of paper it can be renewed at lower cost).

*some guy who just came over from the Philippines where he got his "medical license". No way he'd be a regular doctor here. I'm not kidding. I actually saw his "license" on the wall.

STEP TWO
Go next door/behind/across the street from the "doctors" office to the "collective dispensary" (or any one of a zillion others in the area). They look at your drivers license and recommendation, you fill out a short meaningless form to become a "member" of the "collective".

STEP THREE
(cue Willy Wonka music from original movie where the kids first step into the candy forest) You step into a room that's utterly amazing. Glass showcases with clear jars full of every variety of bud, hash, pill, pre-rolled doobs, sub-lingual, and tincture. Refrigerator cases filled with cookies, brownies, "butter" for you to cook with on your own (spaghetti sauce anyone?) You name it. Some places are nicer than others, but in the really nice ones, they'll have a "self medication lounge": A darkened lounge area with couches, multicolored waterfalls, black lights, and so on for you and your fellow "patients". After weighing it, they give it to you in cool little plastic pill jars with labels like "Trainwreck", "New York Sour Diesel", "Blue Dream". It's like shopping for fine wine.

STEP FOUR
Go home, get medicated, and watch Jacob's Ladder again.
 
2009-11-06 12:27:18 PM  
Baby Diego: Cthulhu Theory

I personally love the way the acidic content eats away at my stomach! It enables you to feel all that carbonation tickling your tummy even better!

Cola (pH >2) does a better job on your stomach lining than the hydrochloric acid already in there (pH <2)?


Oh, don't take his word for it ((((shhh, I think he smokes weed))). Instead, have a couple of Cokes or Jolt colas on an empty stomach.
 
2009-11-06 12:27:22 PM  
specialkae

Compare it to microbrews for a better perspective. Similar space requirements even. Still regulated and taxed.
 
2009-11-06 12:27:57 PM  
Racht: Twenty years from now everyone's going to wonder what the big deal was and why it was ever illegal to begin with.

Because, like in the headline, America suffered from an epic crime wave that only criminalizing marijuana could control...
 
2009-11-06 12:28:18 PM  
I'm curious: what's the price of dispensary pot vs street pot of the same quality?
 
2009-11-06 12:29:39 PM  
Zer0ne: I find it amazing that in 2009, medical science hasn't come up with a better pain medication than inhaled smoke from a burned weed.

Quite a few medicines are derived from plants...Besides painkillers, there are decongestants and anti-allergy medicines.

Besides, have you ever been puking your guts out from food poisoning then smoked some weed? It's AMAZING, like taking asprin when you have a bad headache, suddenly the nausea is gone.

Plus they say it has anti-cancer effects.

And of course, as has been mentioned, you don't have to smoke it.

That being said...I'm going to go smoke some bong hits, as I still have a tiny amount of freedom over my own life, to choose not to give a crap what other people think about me if I want to smoke weed or get drunk or have a *gasp* cigarette or what the hell ever else it is you stupid Nazis say I can't eat, drink, or smoke.

Yes...I've been corrupting children for years...Smoking weed, in my own home that I probably bought from people much younger than me.

It's really terrible...I mean, it's only been illegal for about, what, 50 years?

So you can see how much better it is now that there is gang warfare surrounding a black market for a plant that I see growing in every ditch when I leave the city.

Makes total sense to ruin millions of lives so the police can arrest people and take their possessions and not offer any kind of rehab program if it's so bad.
 
2009-11-06 12:29:40 PM  
Baby Diego: argylez

That would be none. Nice troll though.

Sorry, but as an occasional marijuana (and devil's) advocate I simply can't accept that you can inhale smoke daily - with all the free radicals coming along for the ride - and suffer absolutely no ill effects.

All things in medicine are risk vs benefit. What are the risks of smoking pot daily versus the benefits shown? The benefits are well established. The lack of risk isn't, with a lot of research papers leaning either way. The common intersection between cigarette and marijuana use makes studying that risk harder (but not impossible).


I'm sayin I smoke daily, and have no lung butter. I play ice hockey, am a distance runner (mostly 10 mi, and half marathons), and trumpet player.

I agree there isn't much research out there, so I do my own.

Tried to find out if there is increased free radicals, but didn't find much, other than this, which says they aren't increased.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-04/954970664.Bc.r.html

/vaporize it
 
2009-11-06 12:29:59 PM  
Tr0mBoNe: jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


About half of most common medications list sudden death as a possible side effect.

Sorry about your point but it's f*cking moot.
 
2009-11-06 12:31:53 PM  
EdNortonsTwin

Oh, don't take his word for it ((((shhh, I think he smokes weed))). Instead, have a couple of Cokes or Jolt colas on an empty stomach.

Indigestion != ulcer, though a constant/long term supply of phosphoric acid could lower the overall pH to the point where ulcers could form.

Remember, pH is logarithmic. That half to one point difference in pH means your stomach acid is already 5 to 10x more acidic than the cola you're drinking.

Moderation is key.
 
2009-11-06 12:33:18 PM  
Zer0ne: jonasborg: Cannabis is a virtually non-toxicalternative to many prescription drugs. The side effects of it are generally mild and pleasant. Why wouldn't people try that alternative? It's not like you have to smoke it.

Is that like when something is advertised as "virtually pain-free", meaning there's pain?


No, it means the toxicity is so low that you would have to ingest an unreal amount in order to overdose.

Like water.
 
2009-11-06 12:34:11 PM  
Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16 PM

doubled99: vylasaven: Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.


I hope you guys don't seriously believe this, do you?
Republicans don't smoke weed? You should really expand your horizons a little. I smoke, and I'm pretty farkin far from a republican, but the thought that if people smoke, their minds will expand and they'll become liberal democrats is a little naive.
And if you think that a world with everyone smoking weed would be peaceful, I would like to introduce you to some members of the Crips, Bloods, or LaRaza here in SoCal.

Where exactly did he say they would become liberals? Please highlight and underline the specific points in his statement that equate this argument


You are correct, he did not specifically say liberal or democrat.
I simply inferred it due to his apparent belief that "republicans" do not smoke weed. It's a natural assumption that he is from the opposite camp. "Listen to what other people have to say" usually is a euphemism for "start believing the correct viewpoint-mine"

He's suggesting that they would more readily listen to what the opposition has to say, is all, rather than being a bunch of stubborn asshats who act like children and name call when they don't get their way

Because only one political ideology is guilty of that, right?

Also, I'm sure the gangmembers you speak of do more than just MJ, perhaps some coke and definitely copious amounts of booze


Probably, but that's my point. Those substances alone don't cause them to be violent, just as smoking would not automatically make you peaceful.
 
2009-11-06 12:40:30 PM  
doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16 PM

doubled99: vylasaven: Republicans will soon become unRepublican if they start smoking weed. Either they'll get even more paranoid (unbelievably so) and freak out, before the rest of the nation invites them to sit on their comfy liberal-ish couch and settle down, or they'll chill the fark out and listen to what other people have to say for a few seconds.


I hope you guys don't seriously believe this, do you?
Republicans don't smoke weed? You should really expand your horizons a little. I smoke, and I'm pretty farkin far from a republican, but the thought that if people smoke, their minds will expand and they'll become liberal democrats is a little naive.
And if you think that a world with everyone smoking weed would be peaceful, I would like to introduce you to some members of the Crips, Bloods, or LaRaza here in SoCal.

Where exactly did he say they would become liberals? Please highlight and underline the specific points in his statement that equate this argument

You are correct, he did not specifically say liberal or democrat.
I simply inferred it due to his apparent belief that "republicans" do not smoke weed. It's a natural assumption that he is from the opposite camp. "Listen to what other people have to say" usually is a euphemism for "start believing the correct viewpoint-mine"

He's suggesting that they would more readily listen to what the opposition has to say, is all, rather than being a bunch of stubborn asshats who act like children and name call when they don't get their way

Because only one political ideology is guilty of that, right?

Also, I'm sure the gangmembers you speak of do more than just MJ, perhaps some coke and definitely copious amounts of booze


Probably, but that's my point. Those substances alone don't cause them to be violent, just as smoking would not automatically make you peaceful.


I concur. I know many assholes that smoke weed.
 
2009-11-06 12:40:33 PM  
Don't mock my brain cloud!
 
2009-11-06 12:41:22 PM  
Baby Diego: specialkae

Compare it to microbrews for a better perspective. Similar space requirements even. Still regulated and taxed.


Thank you for that suggestion. Admittedly, I do not know the regulations of the microbrew industry and that may in fact be a better analogy. However, my point (admittedly somewhat of a dull one) is still this: my brother in law brews his own beer-he's not a microbrewer, just a hobbyist. ATF is not knocking down his door for making illegal hooch. Would you suggest that a similar provision be enacted for hobby cannabis cultivators? If so, then that would be a step in the right direction, along with laws permitting the sale of marijuana along the lines of a microbrewery. What concerns me is that in my state, the "hobbyists" if you will, get their pot permit and are put on a list. Last time I checked, you didn't have to register on a list to be a hobby beer brewer.

I guess that my sense of this debate is that it's been outlawed for so long and the feds and the states simply cannot agree (would be nice if this were simply left up to the states entirely) that it just seems that any attempt to fix this problem results in further catastrophe whether it's trying to get it legalized for medical purposes and then have every Tom, Dick and Jane go to a quack for a recommendation, or the anti-pot folks who swear up and down that the devil weed is the demise of modern society. I just don't feel very confident about the current pot laws for medical purposes; too many people exploit them and then it ruins it for everyone.

and I have been wondering, where are the dispensaries getting their stock from? Is it a government program or private suppliers? And are they registered/licensed/regulated?
 
2009-11-06 12:41:24 PM  
specialkae: joeflood:

Make marijuana legit and we can tax it. Keep it on the black market, and it's lost tax revenue.

Do you really want the government involved in the control of yet another substance to tax and control all the supply of? I mean, tobacco I can kinda get since it takes quite a bit of acerage, water, fertilizer, etc as well as curing/drying facilities to produce, but how well do you (or anyone in this thread, it's an open question) think it would work for the government to come in and say "ok, it's all ours, no way you can produce it and you have to buy it from a regulated shop." I mean, it doesn't take anywhere near the amount of resources for John Smith down the street to do a little homegrown. I don't see how govenment regulation would ever stop this, it's just not the same. And on that note, I don't see how tax revenues could be improved if it was legalized, there would probably be a drastic uptick in illegal cultivation.

/tobacco farming was the best example I could come up with, so please be gentle
//no good answer for the cannabis dilemma, as far as I can tell


I don't know. I think I'd equate it more to alcohol and the prohibition years. You had guys making bathtub gin because that was the only way to get it. It's not that difficult to do, but it's not effortless either. Same thing with marijuana. But with it legalized, what's the point to keep doing it yourself? I'm sure some people would try their hand at growing their own, but it becomes more effort than it's worth. Plus, I think that people don't want to be breaking the law if they don't have to. So, I think the demand for illegally cultivated weed would significantly drop if people could just go down to their local liquor store to get it.
 
2009-11-06 12:41:28 PM  
Baby Diego: Cthulhu Theory

I personally love the way the acidic content eats away at my stomach! It enables you to feel all that carbonation tickling your tummy even better!

Cola (pH >2) does a better job on your stomach lining than the hydrochloric acid already in there (pH <2)?


I don't know wtf you just said, but I think them thars fightin wurds!
 
2009-11-06 12:42:07 PM  
I guess the point of the headline is that marijuana isn't actually much of a medicine, and this is a legal dodge used to allow folks to use it for recreation?

The only thing I don't understand is that subby apparently thinks this is something that's a secret somehow. This is pretty standard form of civil disobedience/nullification for a subsection of a government to use to get around the rules of a larger, more general piece of government in which it's included. It's not that people don't know what's going on (except perhaps the really heavy users), it's that the government can't really do much about a full-scale civil rebellion of this type without going third-world on it. They've been down this road with things like jury nullification and know that the answer is just to let it slide and go after the dangerous versions of the problem (pot smuggled in by mexican warlords and such).

That said, try not to forget that it is mostly an open lie for the purposes of civil disobedience. There's some evidence that pot can alleviate glaucoma and it's a painkiller/intoxicant on par with ethanol... that's about it. If you genuinely believe it qualifies as an alternate cure for much of anything else I've got a great deal for you involving long-distance internet-based reiki massage for only 150$ a session. It'll clear your chakra and cure your cancer and such. 9 in 10 doctors recommend (that I be tried for fraud for suggesting) it (will do anything).
 
2009-11-06 12:42:40 PM  
vernonFL
I was in California last week. In Los Angeles the dispensaries are everywhere. There are ads in newspapers and magazines.

Society hasn't broken apart, the world didn't end.


scienceblogs.com
 
2009-11-06 12:43:12 PM  
BobNesta420: Cthulhu Theory: doubled99:


So, don't know if you wanted to know all that, but there you go.


Always willing to learn something new, not always willing to look for it. Thanks!
 
2009-11-06 12:43:52 PM  
argylez

I'm sayin I smoke daily, and have no lung butter. I play ice hockey, am a distance runner (mostly 10 mi, and half marathons), and trumpet player.

I agree there isn't much research out there, so I do my own.


That's all well and good but it's anecdotal evidence. The Internet is full of anecdotes. Large, repeatable statistical studies are better. Not to poo-poo your experience but remember that plenty of people die of old age having smoked cigarettes all their lives. Simply smoking cigarettes doesn't guarantee lung cancer or other cardiovascular disease, it's an increased risk factor. And I suspect (but can't prove yet) that marijuana smoking is a risk factor, but likely a smaller risk factor than cigarette smoking.

Tried to find out if there is increased free radicals, but didn't find much, other than this, which says they aren't increased.

Now, I don't know if smoking marijuana promotes the collection of free radicals in the body but the simple fact is that combustion creates free radicals. Wikipedia:

Combustion

[...]

When a hydrocarbon is burned, a large number of different oxygen radicals are involved. The first thing to form is a hydroperoxide radical (HOO·), which reacts further into hydroperoxides that break up into hydroxide radicals.


So that's where my theory comes from. Obviously, real scientific tests are better.
 
2009-11-06 12:45:01 PM  
Teknowaffle: Lets get one thing straight people.

It it not a medicine. Many people act like it is some magical, wonderful panacea. Many people at my stoner college (UCSC) argued that it cured glaucoma and treated cancer.

It only helps ease the pain.

It is Therapeutic Weed.


Well "the Munchies" are often a blessing to Chemo patients who otherwise have no appetite so it does lgitimately help them recover. Not to mention it generally outperforms the hell out of the next-best anti-nausea drug, phenergin, withoutthe nasty narcotic side effects (like constipation)
 
2009-11-06 12:46:33 PM  
Tr0mBoNe: Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.


Smoke cigarettes, drink beer, or take Tylenol every day and see what happens.
 
2009-11-06 12:47:40 PM  
Baby Diego: Now, I don't know if smoking marijuana promotes the collection of free radicals in the body but the simple fact is that combustion creates free radicals.

So don't smoke it. Bake brownies instead.
 
2009-11-06 12:48:08 PM  
Marijuana

Is there anything it can't.......
 
2009-11-06 12:50:32 PM  
FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.

It profits the states, who have wanted pot legal anyway. They have no reason to keep it illegal. It does NOT profit the federal government, who DOES want it illegal. Why? Because they DO profit from it being illegal.

The thing is, there's no constitutional authority for the federal government to tell the states how to act, unless those states are in violation of the constitution. But the precedent has been set, because they've been taking more powers for themselves, away from states, for years. To the point that lawmakers on both sides just accept that this is the new contract.

And the states will likely never try to take that power back, because it would mean federal intervention the likes of which we haven't seen since the civil rights movement, when federal and state authorities squared off, with guns drawn, before the states finally backed down.

Of course, at that time both the constitution and popular support was in favor of getting rid of racial discrimination. But now? I think both things are on the side of the states rights to decide drug policy. Unfortunately, who is right means very little. Just look at how the states were bullied into setting the drinking age to 21.
 
2009-11-06 12:51:02 PM  
If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.
 
2009-11-06 12:53:38 PM  
Jim_Callahan

marijuana isn't actually much of a medicine, and this is a legal dodge used to allow folks to use it for recreation?

Can't it be both?

There's some evidence that pot can alleviate glaucoma and it's a painkiller/intoxicant on par with ethanol... that's about it.

When used as a painkiller for chronic pain you end up with problems, same as with every painkiller. I'm not up on my glaucoma research, so I'll leave that alone. What I'm strongly in favor of is treating the side effects of chemotherapy with it. There is a lot of really good evidence here and chemotherapy isn't a permanent thing, so tolerance / dependency problems aren't the same.

If you genuinely believe it qualifies as an alternate cure for much of anything else I've got a great deal for you involving long-distance internet-based reiki massage for only 150$ a session. It'll clear your chakra and cure your cancer and such. 9 in 10 doctors recommend (that I be tried for fraud for suggesting) it (will do anything).

It cures nothing. It treats the symptoms of some things. You won't catch me calling it a cure for anything. What it is known to treat well it should be used to treat well.

I advocate recreational use of marijuana entirely separately from my medical advocacy for it. It sucks that this legal dodge has to be made. It sucks because it takes away from the legitimate medical uses. It sucks because people should be able to smoke pot, same as they can drink or smoke cigs. It sucks because it shouldn't be this way in the first place and it sucks to appear to talk out of both sides of my mouth on the issue.
 
2009-11-06 12:55:03 PM  
Sxooter: You do all realize the Federal Govt has no constitutional claim for regulating / outlawing pot right? If it hadn't overstepped its bounds this would be a state level issue and solved already by being legal most everywhere.

Farking neocons claiming they want less govt. Until it comes to pot.


You do realize that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about, don't you?
 
2009-11-06 12:55:33 PM  
I'm gonna live my life by the Holy Trinity: Beer, Weed, Bacon.

I'll be disease and cancer-free, hung like a moose, and live till I'm 350.
 
2009-11-06 12:56:16 PM  
HeartBurnKid

So don't smoke it. Bake brownies instead.

That's all well and good for recreational use but doesn't help the chemotherapy group. But I'd say the chemotherapy group should just go ahead and smoke it, the small increase in risk from that is greatly offset by the risks that come from NOT EATING.
 
2009-11-06 12:56:35 PM  
doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16


Probably, but that's my point. Those substances alone don't cause them to be violent, just as smoking would not automatically make you peaceful.


You're arguing the obvious as well as semantics then. People who believe in absolutes are people who don't understand critical thinking. To just assume everyone will react the same way is a fallacy, which I think is your point. On the other hand, I'm sure plenty of people say things contrary to what they really believe just to appear they're being just and right despite the reality thay they might actually disagree with their proposed stance.

If the substance is legalized they might change their tune about it and absorb it into their fold of things that they let hold sway over them like big tobacco and evil maniacal oil companies.

/Whole other rant.
//Corruption with them will never end
///And no, neither party is guilt free of the cry-baby tactics, but at least the dems seem to be more flexible on their standings than the republicans.
 
2009-11-06 12:57:44 PM  
ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Agreed. But until it's accepted as a legitimate medicine by the government, my guess is that any pharmacy would be shut down as soon as they started dispensing it. In theory, your regular doctor should be allowed to prescribe it, but with the fear of having their medical license revoked, I think many are probably reluctant to do that.

I wonder if that's going to change now that the Obama administration has explicitly stated that they aren't going to go after anyone who is operating legitimately, as stated by their given state's medicinal marijuana laws.
 
2009-11-06 12:57:47 PM  
Cthulhu Theory: Baby Diego: Cthulhu Theory

I personally love the way the acidic content eats away at my stomach! It enables you to feel all that carbonation tickling your tummy even better!

Cola (pH >2) does a better job on your stomach lining than the hydrochloric acid already in there (pH <2)?

I don't know wtf you just said, but I think them thars fightin wurds!




I know what Baby D is saying, so I'll post rabbits with a...

img225.imageshack.us

Serious case of the munchies!!!
 
2009-11-06 12:58:01 PM  
ttintagel

If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Wrong, it doesn't discredit the medical value, that is determined by scientific and medical consensus based on evidence. It has nothing to do with the politics that surround the distribution issue.
 
2009-11-06 12:58:17 PM  
HeartBurnKid: Tr0mBoNe: Smoke it constantly and every day and see what kind of lung butter you hack up.

No side effects, my ass.

Smoke cigarettes, drink beer, or take Tylenol every day and see what happens.


Two of those listed are recreational drugs, so not really relevant comparisons... and more generally, the point of the post you're quoting was that, like all drugs, marijuana does in fact have side effects that require some moderation in its use. So... that was a really sarcastic way for you to agree with a post completely there.

Also, things like sudden death and anal bleeding and such listed as effects for prescription drugs are typically extremely rare effects, otherwise the drug wouldn't have made it through trials. Marijuana has a similar possibility of aggravating previously undetectable psychoses into full-blown paranoia or debilitating psychosis... at a similar very, very tiny rate. So a pharmaceutical ad for it would have "risk of debilitating psychosis" in the add, or whatever the specific cases have been. Basically, if you hold it to the same testing and advertising standards as regular medicine, it'll come out moderately scary, too. (Plus, according to the MSDS, THC is a carcinogen even before you consider things like combustion byproducts.)

This is not to knock marijuana. As a recreational drug it's a pretty nice one with the exception of the eternal sickly smell you'll never be able to get rid of (like any smoker), and the risks are relatively low since the manufacture is fairly idiot-proof. Just pointing out that denigrating real medicines to pretend pot is some kind of wonder-drug is kinda... silly, at best. And bound to make people take the legalization movement less seriously.

Summary: stop helping, 'cause it's not.
 
2009-11-06 12:58:46 PM  
Huh? What?

What was I saying?

You don't have any pop tarts do you? Man, I'd give one of my kidneys for a pop-tart.
 
2009-11-06 12:59:03 PM  
LavenderWolf: doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16 PM

doubled99: vylasaven:
I concur. I know many assholes that smoke weed. Most assholes I know smoke weed.


FTFM

/no cure for d-bagitis
 
2009-11-06 12:59:30 PM  
JRoo: Makes total sense to ruin millions of lives so the police can arrest people and take their possessions and not offer any kind of rehab program if it's so bad.

We've got to get people out of the labor pool somehow.
 
2009-11-06 01:01:00 PM  
memphisto: Sxooter,

You're right, but that argument died with the Alien and Sedition acts and was buried by the 14th amendment.


He was very wrong, but not quite as wrong as you.
 
2009-11-06 01:02:23 PM  
give me doughnuts: I'm gonna live my life by the Holy Trinity: Beer, Weed, Bacon.

I'll be disease and cancer-free, hung like a moose, and live till I'm 350.


Yeah, you keep livin that dream, let me know how your arteries feel in 10 years.

/Assuming you're still around.
 
2009-11-06 01:03:07 PM  
AmazingRuss: JRoo: Makes total sense to ruin millions of lives so the police can arrest people and take their possessions and not offer any kind of rehab program if it's so bad.

We've got to get people out of the labor pool somehow.


Everyone I know just stops smoking for a few weeks so they can pass their drug test and then as soon as they have the job they start up again.
 
2009-11-06 01:04:23 PM  
ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

I agree. "Medical" MJ is for the most part BS anyway. Yes, it does have medical advantages (like treatment of nausea etc) but we all know it has not undergone extensive research outside of college dorms.

Let's cut the crap and just make it legal. It is a rather benign substance which has not been properly researched. The amount of medical studies on MJ is so small and biased that it is a joke to call it "medical". I will freely admit that it seems to help keep Ulcerative Colitis / Crohn's from flaring up, but that is just my personal experience. Does it mean there is real medicinal qualities? Nobody knows because the FDA will not take any marijuana research as valid.

Legalize it similar to booze. License, tax and regulate (age restriction) as you see fit. Just make sure individuals may grow at home just like microbrewing.

Then you can have this easy to grow plant available to industry (paper, textiles erc) and medical researchers may begin doing studies on its effect on actual illnesses. Is it good treatment for IBD? Is it good for anxiety? Is it good for glaucoma?

Only then will it be able to be called "medical".
 
2009-11-06 01:06:30 PM  
Lung butter? LOL

Riiiight...

Sounds like someone who's never smoked a day in their life.

Being a 'moron' pot smoker myself, I've smoked everyday for the last 7 years (yes...everyday, get over yourself you preachy biatch), and I've never coughed up 'lung butter' from weed.

Oddly enough...I very rarely smoke cigarettes (maybe a few times month whenever friends are over/out for a smoke) and a single cigarette will mess with my lungs and force a cough for a few days...

Grams of marijuana a day for years: no adverse side effects/feelings

One occasional cig: a shiat feeling inside my stomach and an 'itchy' feeling in my lungs.
 
2009-11-06 01:06:53 PM  
animalnewyork.com
Weed Card


Everyone knows marijuana's dangerous
And medical pot is really strong
That's why it's so hard it California
To get your weed card
Unless something's really wrong
Gonna pay a visit to my doctor
It's a long shot but I gotta try
She hands me a list of all the ailments
I can have to qualify
Can't believe what I am reading
This is just what I've been needing
A government supply
To get legally high

Weed card, that's what I need
Hardly ever, okay, always
But it's not an addiction
Cause my doctor gave me a prescription

You can get your card for having headaches, bad dreams or anxiety
Propensity for drugs or alcohol,
Anorexia or Obesity
Too fat, too thin, either way you win!
Carpal tunnel syndrome, color blindness,
St-st-stuttering, t-t-tooth decay
Fatigue, depression, motion sickness,
Impotence or TMJ
You can smoke to quit cigarettes
For asthma or motherfarking Tourettes
It's a dream come true
There's nothing pot can't do

Weed card, that's what I need
Hardly ever, okay, always
But it's not an addiction
Cause my doctor gave me a prescription

Got back pain, need mary jane
Can't handle this, need cannabis
Got a stomach ache, gotta wake and bake
Have an injury, need THC
Get farked up for your hyperhydrosis
Which is sweaty palms in case you need a diagnosis
It's not a crime, it's 4:20 time

Weed card, that's what I need
Hardly ever, okay, always
But its not an addiction
Cause my doctor gave me a prescription
 
2009-11-06 01:06:55 PM  
Baby Diego:
It cures nothing. It treats the symptoms of some things. You won't catch me calling it a cure for anything. What it is known to treat well it should be used to treat well.


Fair enough. I did leave out that it can be used as an anti-nausea medication for a lot of people (though, obviously, I'm not a doctor, so assumably you should consult one and watch for side effects when using it as such). And I've had doctors recommend that I drink black tea when I'm sick with flu (to keep me from suffering caffeine withdrawal without aggravating the symptoms of the illness like coffee sometimes does) so it certainly isn't out of line for a professional to recommend a recreational drug to a patient if it will help him feel better.

I was more addressing the "Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs" dude from the beginning of the thread and the arguments based on "prescription drugs are EVIL" than the actual, rational argument for medical use, which is what you presented.
 
2009-11-06 01:08:57 PM  
Baby Diego: argylez

Tried to find out if there is increased free radicals, but didn't find much, other than this, which says they aren't increased.


The dedicated potheads, the daily smokers that I know have nearly all gone to vaporizers so there is no combustion. Occasional tokers (a couple of times a month) probably do not smoke enough for it to affect their lungs much more then cooking on a charcoal grill occasionally or hanging out in a smokey bar once in a while. I do know one guy who is stoned from ten minutes after he wakes till he goes to bed hitting the pipe all day long, but he smokes a couple of packs of ciggys a day too.
 
2009-11-06 01:08:57 PM  
iollow: FlashHarry: legalize it. regulate it. tax it... profit.

It profits the states, who have wanted pot legal anyway. They have no reason to keep it illegal. It does NOT profit the federal government, who DOES want it illegal. Why? Because they DO profit from it being illegal.

The thing is, there's no constitutional authority for the federal government to tell the states how to act, unless those states are in violation of the constitution. But the precedent has been set, because they've been taking more powers for themselves, away from states, for years. To the point that lawmakers on both sides just accept that this is the new contract.

And the states will likely never try to take that power back, because it would mean federal intervention the likes of which we haven't seen since the civil rights movement, when federal and state authorities squared off, with guns drawn, before the states finally backed down.

Of course, at that time both the constitution and popular support was in favor of getting rid of racial discrimination. But now? I think both things are on the side of the states rights to decide drug policy. Unfortunately, who is right means very little. Just look at how the states were bullied into setting the drinking age to 21.


Seriously, where in the world do you guys get this shiat?
 
2009-11-06 01:11:36 PM  
Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:56:35 PM

doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16


Probably, but that's my point. Those substances alone don't cause them to be violent, just as smoking would not automatically make you peaceful.

You're arguing the obvious as well as semantics then. People who believe in absolutes are people who don't understand critical thinking. To just assume everyone will react the same way is a fallacy, which I think is your point. On the other hand, I'm sure plenty of people say things contrary to what they really believe just to appear they're being just and right despite the reality thay they might actually disagree with their proposed stance.

If the substance is legalized they might change their tune about it and absorb it into their fold of things that they let hold sway over them like big tobacco and evil maniacal oil companies.

/Whole other rant.
//Corruption with them will never end
///And no, neither party is guilt free of the cry-baby tactics, but at least the dems seem to be more flexible on their standings than the republicans.



Dude, I mostly am with you on all this. Perhaps I am arguing the obvious, but you seem like a Fark veteran, so you probably know the percentage of critical thinkers on these threads, so it's not obvious to all.
As someone who has become more open minded as I get older, I have despaired of the fact that most are exactly the opposite. I once thought one day MJ would absolutely be legal, but now I sort of doubt it. Ignorance seems to always win out lately.
I think it's time to self-medicate
 
2009-11-06 01:11:44 PM  
BobNesta420

You bring up a valid point; if pot were legal, people would lose the motivation to break the law-and I agree, most folks really don't want to break the law if they don't have to, and it would be interesting to see a full legalization in some ways (still don't feel too great about the government regulating something it has had outlawed for decades, tho)-but at least with the current stock in the dispensaries in my area and I am getting this info second and third hand,mind you-the prices are pretty exorbitant. Maybe fewer people would make their own "bathtub weed" so to speak and steer clear of the black market, but I just don't know,the demand will always be out there I think. So far, I've seen a bunch of people running out to get weed licenses so they can purchase and grow up to 6 plants in Colorado. Do I think they will all abide by those rules? Truthfully, no, but I hope I'm wrong. I do truly worry about some folks who get their permits thinking they're all hunky dory only to get in trouble down the road. And I like my friends I don't mind that they're stoners, I just worry about some of them doing this.

The first thing I would like to see is for up to 1oz to be completely legal to possess in any state that wanted to make it legal-keep the feds out of it, unless it's interstate transport/drug trafficking. I don't have a problem with that and think that reasonably if we could get that done, future solutions to this problem may become easier to find and implement. The medical mj thing is just too easy for motivated people to abuse. I think we will be seeing a backlash from either the state or federal government in the very near future in at least some of these states and that will hurt everyone and their cause.
 
2009-11-06 01:22:16 PM  
slick_rick2k

The dedicated potheads, the daily smokers that I know have nearly all gone to vaporizers so there is no combustion.

Of all the dedicated recreational users I know one went to the vaporizer. The rest all smoke cigs and marijuana. The strong overlap between marijuana and cigarette use makes studying these things hard. Harder still because these studies self-select so frequently.
 
2009-11-06 01:24:55 PM  
Jim_Callahan

I was more addressing the "Cannabis is a virtually non-toxic alternative to many prescription drugs" dude from the beginning of the thread and the arguments based on "prescription drugs are EVIL" than the actual, rational argument for medical use, which is what you presented.

Damn right, the average vocal Internet marijuana user is a poor advocate, same as the average bar star would be a poor advocate for alcohol.
 
2009-11-06 01:28:42 PM  
Jim_Callahan: Also, things like sudden death and anal bleeding and such listed as effects for prescription drugs are typically extremely rare effects, otherwise the drug wouldn't have made it through trials.

oh now that's rich. keep trusting the government to tell you which substances are helpful and which are harmful instead of thinking for yourself. best of luck with that.
 
2009-11-06 01:29:59 PM  
specialkae: Same thing happening in Colorado right now; the med mj laws that got passed about 19 yrs ago are finally really being noticed/utilized and I know several people who have gotten their pot permits. Out of the few I know, only one has medical conditions that are severe enough to warrant the use of medical mj-cancer survivor, arthritis, chronic pain. So, more power to her. However, several of the younger people I know have gone to doctors from lists and for a fee of anywhere from $175-265 the doc will write them a recommend for medical mj-anything from bone spurs, to anxiety and yes, stress. That can't possibly be legal, can it? It'll be those morans who end up ruining this for those who truly need help. And, I'm pretty sure that raids on the dispensaries is not too far off seeing as this has gotten so much press in my state recently.

/ramble off


I'm 31 and have a herniated disc in my lower back. I manage by practicing Tai-Chi, breathing exercises/stretching, and daily use of cannabis. I smoke because I can't afford to drop a few hundred on a vaporizer. I am wrong?

/I also quit drinking a few years ago so my "evening beer" is an "evening bowl"
 
2009-11-06 01:32:31 PM  
tricycleracer:

Small, expensive boutique brands will always be there, but the "Budweiser of pot" (hell, call it Bud Wiser) will prevail as the #1 brand.

Will there be a Keystoned lit for poor college kids?
 
2009-11-06 01:32:42 PM  
Bhopper

oh now that's rich. keep trusting the government to tell you which substances are helpful and which are harmful instead of thinking for yourself. best of luck with that.

And just how would you determine the toxicity or efficacy of various substances and/or the combination of various substances by 'thinking for yourself'? Self experimentation? Or by relying on the same studies and evidence that the governmental regulatory bodies use?
 
2009-11-06 01:36:43 PM  
Brainsick: specialkae: Same thing happening in Colorado right now; the med mj laws that got passed about 19 yrs ago are finally really being noticed/utilized and I know several people who have gotten their pot permits. Out of the few I know, only one has medical conditions that are severe enough to warrant the use of medical mj-cancer survivor, arthritis, chronic pain. So, more power to her. However, several of the younger people I know have gone to doctors from lists and for a fee of anywhere from $175-265 the doc will write them a recommend for medical mj-anything from bone spurs, to anxiety and yes, stress. That can't possibly be legal, can it? It'll be those morans who end up ruining this for those who truly need help. And, I'm pretty sure that raids on the dispensaries is not too far off seeing as this has gotten so much press in my state recently.

/ramble off

I'm 31 and have a herniated disc in my lower back. I manage by practicing Tai-Chi, breathing exercises/stretching, and daily use of cannabis. I smoke because I can't afford to drop a few hundred on a vaporizer. I am wrong?

/I also quit drinking a few years ago so my "evening beer" is an "evening bowl"


Hey Brainsick, sounds like you are one of those who benefits from med mj and it's good if you are able to get it legally in your area. It probably beats the heck out of opiate painkillers. Nah, I was rambling on about what I keep seeing in my area of people who are otherwise normally healthy and getting pot permits. When it comes down to it, if someone wants to smoke, fine, doesn't hurt me none, but the med mj laws are being taken advantage of by some and it's worrisome to me.

sidenote: it's pretty cool that you do Tai-Chi-don't meet to many people who have. I studied for several years as well, but my instructor moved out of town a while ago, unfortunately. It helped my back a lot too.
 
2009-11-06 01:37:04 PM  
ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Which thefederal government will not allow and has threatened to pull the license of any pharmacy that tried. As far as the DEA and FDA are concerned marijuana is still an illegal drug, and all of these dispensaries are committing federal felonies by operating at all, despite the fact that they are legal under CA law.
 
2009-11-06 01:37:13 PM  
robkellyj: Sxooter: You do all realize the Federal Govt has no constitutional claim for regulating / outlawing pot right? If it hadn't overstepped its bounds this would be a state level issue and solved already by being legal most everywhere.

Farking neocons claiming they want less govt. Until it comes to pot.

You do realize that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about, don't you?


No, I think he's right on. The wikipedia page for the DEA has this little blurb towards the beginning...
"The Drug Enforcement Administration was established on 1 July 1973, by Reorganization Plan No. 2 of 1973, signed by President Richard Nixon on 28 March 1973"

The "reorganization plan" was a "Presedential Reorganization Plan" An executive order. Basically, by putting a federal agency in charge of somethign that was not in the constitution, an leaving it now that states disagree on the matter, they're really infringing on state's rights and making the federal governemnt bigger.

Little known fact, Nixon, was in fact a Republican.

Little more disturbing fact, the person who is the head of the agency currently, is incredibly well educated, she has a B.S. in Criminal Justice from Bemidji State University in Minnesota which, not to be a dick, isn't exactly cream of the crop.

It's all executive bullshiat that needs to be reformed or done away with so that it doesn't impede on states rights.

Go bigger government by Republicans!
 
2009-11-06 01:40:25 PM  
SpocksEars: You step into a room that's utterly amazing. Glass showcases with clear jars full of every variety of bud, hash, pill, pre-rolled doobs, sub-lingual, and tincture. Refrigerator cases filled with cookies, brownies, "butter" for you to cook with on your own (spaghetti sauce anyone?) You name it.

Dude, stop, you're gonna make me cry. My last pickup here in Utah was good shiat but sprayed with grit to increase the weight. Adulteration like this is a direct result of prohibition. I can't wait to move back to CA where it's done right.
 
2009-11-06 01:40:59 PM  
It really is amazing to see peoples minds trapped in the proverbial box when it comes to cannabis.

Nothing short of total legalization is acceptable. No you aren't a bad person just because you have over a certain arbitrary amount. But I suppose we have to start somewhere.
 
2009-11-06 01:41:40 PM  
plausdeny:
I say legalize it, but I don't see a bright new world opening up to us as a result of freely available ganja.


It would be a bright new world if you were released from jail for possession.
 
2009-11-06 01:42:06 PM  
doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:56:35 PM

doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16


Probably, but that's my point. Those substances alone don't cause them to be violent, just as smoking would not automatically make you peaceful.

You're arguing the obvious as well as semantics then. People who believe in absolutes are people who don't understand critical thinking. To just assume everyone will react the same way is a fallacy, which I think is your point. On the other hand, I'm sure plenty of people say things contrary to what they really believe just to appear they're being just and right despite the reality thay they might actually disagree with their proposed stance.

If the substance is legalized they might change their tune about it and absorb it into their fold of things that they let hold sway over them like big tobacco and evil maniacal oil companies.

/Whole other rant.
//Corruption with them will never end
///And no, neither party is guilt free of the cry-baby tactics, but at least the dems seem to be more flexible on their standings than the republicans.


Dude, I mostly am with you on all this. Perhaps I am arguing the obvious, but you seem like a Fark veteran, so you probably know the percentage of critical thinkers on these threads, so it's not obvious to all.
As someone who has become more open minded as I get older, I have despaired of the fact that most are exactly the opposite. I once thought one day MJ would absolutely be legal, but now I sort of doubt it. Ignorance seems to always win out lately.
I think it's time to self-medicate


You know, it's weird when you find yourself arguing with someone that has the same point to make as yourself, but they phrase it in a way you don't agree with. I find most people who claim open minded-ness tend to be highly selective of what they'll compromise on which is the most disheartening thing of all. I think with the growing momentum of the MJ movement, it'll be legal, but it will take a long time to convince the staunchest opponents that it's really not all that bad. I myself am not a user, but I just don't see how in the long run banning it things benefits people.
 
2009-11-06 01:43:21 PM  
Cthulhu Theory: give me doughnuts: I'm gonna live my life by the Holy Trinity: Beer, Weed, Bacon.

I'll be disease and cancer-free, hung like a moose, and live till I'm 350.

Yeah, you keep livin that dream, let me know how your arteries feel in 10 years.

/Assuming you're still around.


A short happy life filled with the things you enjoy, or a long life full of denying yourself pleasure.

I know which one I'll choose.

Which would you choose
 
2009-11-06 01:43:27 PM  
SpocksEars:

STEP ONE
Go to any one of the brazillion doctors* in the area who do nothing but hand out "recommendations" from a tiny office in a strip mall. Tell them you have any BS malady you can think of (anxiety, back pain, etc). He takes your blood pressure, and asks a few dumb questions.


There are real doctors who give out recommendations. Those "BS" things you refer too are very serious. I had a friend with severe chronic back pain and he got hooked on oxy's to deal with it, ended up going to jail for robbing a pharmacy for more oxy's. Now I know weed isn't as helpful directly for the pain, but it does help, and I've never gotten high and been motivated enough to do anything that ambitious. Stupid addictions.

Honestly, legalize it and we won't have half the problems with it we have now.
 
2009-11-06 01:45:21 PM  
ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Really? So we shouldn't be able to get aspirin in the 7-11 then? Or is aspirin not a medicine?
 
2009-11-06 01:46:15 PM  
specialkae: sidenote: it's pretty cool that you do Tai-Chi-don't meet to many people who have. I studied for several years as well, but my instructor moved out of town a while ago, unfortunately. It helped my back a lot too.


Gracias

Our Sifu is an ex-cop from Jersey who is one of the coolest people I have ever met. Well-read, centered and totally badass. (Ever heard of Chin Na?) I started off with about six months of Shou-Shu to really strengthen my core and now I just maintain the flow...;)
 
2009-11-06 01:47:20 PM  
SlothB77: oh come on, this guy looks legit.

As legit as the guy injecting Botulinum toxin into your face right next door. You know, the same Botulinum toxin that is one of the world's most powerful toxins.
 
2009-11-06 01:48:30 PM  
This will sound silly I suppose, but I wanted to say thanks to the posters who have shared their perspectives on this issue in this thread. Up until very recently, this wasn't anything I thought much about, but now that I know some folks who are participating in the med mj on whatever level for whatever reason, I now have some other things to consider regarding my opinion on this matter. The knowledge is much appreciated.

/off to do housework now
 
2009-11-06 01:50:13 PM  
Brainsick: I'm 31 and have a herniated disc in my lower back. I manage by practicing Tai-Chi, breathing exercises/stretching, and daily use of cannabis. I smoke because I can't afford to drop a few hundred on a vaporizer. I am wrong?

You are wrong in the sense that you don't have to "drop a few hundred" on a vaporizer. It's pretty easy to cobble one together from some cheap, easily-obtainable items. I put one together from a cheap soldering iron, an old mayo jar, and a couple of other items. Not quite as user-friendly as a Volcano, but it's worked for years, for a cost of less than $20. You can hunt down plans on the intarweb.
 
2009-11-06 01:50:53 PM  
BobNesta420: ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Agreed. But until it's accepted as a legitimate medicine by the government, my guess is that any pharmacy would be shut down as soon as they started dispensing it. In theory, your regular doctor should be allowed to prescribe it, but with the fear of having their medical license revoked, I think many are probably reluctant to do that.

I wonder if that's going to change now that the Obama administration has explicitly stated that they aren't going to go after anyone who is operating legitimately, as stated by their given state's medicinal marijuana laws.


But if it's being sold as a medical treatment, then it IS being accepted as a medical treatment. They can't have to both ways. If it's not treated like other medicines, then it's not a medicine. If it's a medicine, it needs to be treated like other medicines. There's no logical middle ground there.
 
2009-11-06 01:51:36 PM  
give me doughnuts: Cthulhu Theory: give me doughnuts: I'm gonna live my life by the Holy Trinity: Beer, Weed, Bacon.

I'll be disease and cancer-free, hung like a moose, and live till I'm 350.

Yeah, you keep livin that dream, let me know how your arteries feel in 10 years.

/Assuming you're still around.

A short happy life filled with the things you enjoy, or a long life full of denying yourself pleasure.

I know which one I'll choose.

Which would you choose


I'll not answer that question for fear of going on a tangent not directly related to this thread....

/yes some farkers do have self-restraint
 
2009-11-06 01:55:04 PM  
ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

The medical industry (not the actual health care workers) have a vested interest in it not being legal. They will not stock it, I guarantee. Who do you think lobbies the most for drug laws? I don't remember which one it is, it's either the prescription drug company lobbyists or the prison corporations' lobbyists.


I use it for a medical reason. I was in an accident back in '06 which crushed my hand. It has long since healed as good as it ever will, and now has begun to deteriorate. This is arthritis, specifically Osteoarthris (new window). In the weeks following the accident I was given tylenol 3 w/codeine. Turns out I react very badly with codeine, as do many people. I spoke at length with my doctor but he refused to prescribe anything else, just stating that if that's not enough to stop the pain that I should take more. More of something that causes me even greater pain than the crushed hand.

I spoke to a friend who recommended that I smoke marijuana instead. I had never smoked weed before this. That friend got me some at what I now know was definitely a sympathy price. After weeks of 24/7 torture I finally found relief. It dulled the pain, and took my mind off it.

Now I smoke it to keep the ever present dull aches and sometimes sharp pains away. I find it helps with my appetite (non existent before), headaches (we all get 'em sometimes) and I have smoked on long bus rides to quell nausea.

I understand how you can see the dispensaries and assume illegitimacy by virtue of their existence, but this isn't something pharmacies want to carry, and even of those that do, it's honestly not an appropriate place. I don't know if you're aware but marijuana has a potent odor that is not pharmacy friendly.

It's medicine. And unlike half the common medications out there "death" is listed nowhere on the list of side effects.

/Marijuana!
//May cause feelings of well-being, gain of appetite, increased intellectual awareness at certain dosages, increased sense of humor, lack of nausea, and resin stuck to the fingertips.
 
2009-11-06 01:56:49 PM  
specialkae: several of the younger people I know have gone to doctors from lists and for a fee of anywhere from $175-265 the doc will write them a recommend for medical mj-anything from bone spurs, to anxiety and yes, stress. That can't possibly be legal, can it?

I can go to my doctor and get a prescription for Xanax or Valium for stress. Most doctors see little risk in giving you a few mild tranquilizers. If you really need them for stress, they're effective. If you're just getting them to chill a bit on a Friday night, well, there's not much harm in that (Yes, I know they're potentially addictive, but like alcohol, not everyone who uses it recreationally is an addict)

Why should marijuana be different?
 
2009-11-06 01:57:39 PM  
grizzlyjohnson: ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Really? So we shouldn't be able to get aspirin in the 7-11 then? Or is aspirin not a medicine?


If you're seriously claiming that the effect is as mild as that of aspirin, I'm going to have to call shenanigans. You don't have to go to a special funtimes "dispensary" to get aspirin, either. The conversation is obviously about regulated prescription medicines.
 
2009-11-06 01:58:31 PM  
Cthulhu Theory: LavenderWolf: doubled99: Cthulhu Theory 2009-11-06 12:15:16 PM

doubled99: vylasaven:
I concur. I know many assholes that smoke weed. Most assholes I know smoke weed.

FTFM

/no cure for d-bagitis


Kind of confused as to what the correction is trying to say.

I know many people. Some are assholes. Of the asshole subset of people I know, many smoke weed. Probably not a majority, because assholes tend to have a certain set of ideologies, most of which are incompatible with smoking cannabis.
 
2009-11-06 01:59:54 PM  
CheekyMonkey: Brainsick: I'm 31 and have a herniated disc in my lower back. I manage by practicing Tai-Chi, breathing exercises/stretching, and daily use of cannabis. I smoke because I can't afford to drop a few hundred on a vaporizer. I am wrong?

You are wrong in the sense that you don't have to "drop a few hundred" on a vaporizer. It's pretty easy to cobble one together from some cheap, easily-obtainable items. I put one together from a cheap soldering iron, an old mayo jar, and a couple of other items. Not quite as user-friendly as a Volcano, but it's worked for years, for a cost of less than $20. You can hunt down plans on the intarweb.


www.motifake.com
 
2009-11-06 02:00:53 PM  
Baby Diego: slick_rick2k

The dedicated potheads, the daily smokers that I know have nearly all gone to vaporizers so there is no combustion.

Of all the dedicated recreational users I know one went to the vaporizer. The rest all smoke cigs and marijuana. The strong overlap between marijuana and cigarette use makes studying these things hard. Harder still because these studies self-select so frequently.


Will gladly lend my lungs to any study of the effects. I don't smoke cigarettes. Where do I sign up?
 
2009-11-06 02:02:07 PM  
specialkae: This will sound silly I suppose, but I wanted to say thanks to the posters who have shared their perspectives on this issue in this thread. Up until very recently, this wasn't anything I thought much about, but now that I know some folks who are participating in the med mj on whatever level for whatever reason, I now have some other things to consider regarding my opinion on this matter. The knowledge is much appreciated.

/off to do housework now


*sigh* Who let her out of the kitchen? Seriously guys!

/kidding!
//couldn't help myself!
 
2009-11-06 02:02:31 PM  
Ballsy McSack:

No, I think he's right on. The wikipedia page for the DEA has this little blurb towards the beginning...
"The Drug Enforcement Administration was established on 1 July 1973, by Reorganization Plan No. 2 of 1973, signed by President Richard Nixon on 28 March 1973"

The "reorganization plan" was a "Presedential Reorganization Plan" An executive order. Basically, by putting a federal agency in charge of somethign that was not in the constitution, an leaving it now that states disagree on the matter, they're really infringing on state's rights and making the federal governemnt bigger.

Little known fact, Nixon, was in fact a Republican.

Little more disturbing fact, the person who is the head of the agency currently, is incredibly well educated, she has a B.S. in Criminal Justice from Bemidji State University in Minnesota which, not to be a dick, isn't exactly cream of the crop.

It's all executive bullshiat that needs to be reformed or done away with so that it doesn't impede on states rights.

Go bigger government by Republicans!


No, he's right off, as are you, and most people with an internet GED in law. And for the record, almost ALL politicians want more power and control - doesn't matter whether they are R or D's. The only one in the current Congress of the U.S. you can count on to consistently vote in favor of smaller, limited government is Ron Paul (like him or don't - it's true).

Let me break it down for you:

1) Start with the Constitution. Article 1, Section 8 gives the legistlative branch the power to, " regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; . . . ."

2) Go to Wiki, and read "Marbury v. Madison." This case is settled law, outlining SCOTUS's power of judicial review. In effect, they are the final arbiter of constitutional interpretation - they are the final deciders in "what the constitution means," and whether any legislation constitutionally falls within Congress' powers.

3) While on Wiki, read the Commerce Clause Cases. Decided correctly or not (SCOTUS certainly makes bad decisions - Plessy v. Ferguson, anyone?), the SCOTUS has decided that Congress has immensely broad powers to regulate interstate commerce, finding that anything - even if it stays completely within one state - that has even the slightest effect on interstate commerce (read Wickard v. Filburn, if you want to get REALLY pissed) is within the power of Congress to regulate. And by regulate, they mean pretty much any damn thing Congress wants to do with it.

4) Read the "Controlled Substances Act" of 1970, which is the current and constitutionally valid legislation by Congress, allowing them to regulate controlled substances, essentially letting them decide what is a controlled substance and what they want to do about that substance.

5) Read about our 3 branches of government, and how the legislatures makes the laws; the executive enforces them. The President is the head of the executive branch.

6) As head of the executive branch, and empowered by the Controlled Substances Act, Nixon created the DEA in 1973 - to enforce the CSA.

7) There you have it. It sucks. States could, and should, fight it. I completely agree that the Commerce Clause has been horribly misinterpreted by the SCOTUS, but blame that on the liberal God Franklin Delano Roosevelt - also known as the most corrupt, disgusting, vile, worst president in the history of the U.S.. If you are still on Wiki, read about the court packing scheme, and how FDR blackmailed the SCOTUS into changing decisions on well-settled law with the threat of creating a mandatory retirement age and increasing the size of the SCOTUS.

Seriously, if you guys are gonna spout legal shiat, and how you know what you're talking about because "you read something on Wiki," or you "read the Constitution," ... No, you know what - don't.
 
2009-11-06 02:03:05 PM  
Chronic pain is actually something that's very tough to deal with, no matter which way you roll it. Your body will develop tolerance to the effects of cannabis or opiates.

Anyone using marijuana to treat chronic pain should read this.
 
2009-11-06 02:03:29 PM  
ttintagel: grizzlyjohnson: ttintagel: If it's a medicine, it should be sold only in the pharmacy, and be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Having it any other way 100% discredits it as a medical treatment.

Really? So we shouldn't be able to get aspirin in the 7-11 then? Or is aspirin not a medicine?

If you're seriously claiming that the effect is as mild as that of aspirin, I'm going to have to call shenanigans. You don't have to go to a special funtimes "dispensary" to get aspirin, either. The conversation is obviously about regulated prescription medicines.


You're right, there's no comparison. Aspirin is MUCH more dangerous than weed. But I thought the argument was that if it was medicine it would be sold in a pharmacy.
 
2009-11-06 02:05:58 PM  
ttintagel

You don't have to go to a special funtimes "dispensary" to get aspirin, either.

*ahem*

blog.timesunion.com

/hot
 
2009-11-06 02:08:05 PM  
Baby Diego: Chronic pain is actually something that's very tough to deal with, no matter which way you roll it. Your body will develop tolerance to the effects of cannabis or opiates.

Anyone using marijuana to treat chronic pain should read this.


From the "Related Stories" column right next to it...

Body's Own Marijuana-like Compounds Are Crucial For Stress-induced Pain Relief (July 1, 2005)

Marijuana May Be Effective For Neuropathic Pain (June 29, 2008)

Marijuana-based Drug Reduces Fibromyalgia Pain, Study Suggests (Feb. 18, 2008)

Gee, it's almost as if this study is an outlier. Let's see if the results can be replicated.
 
2009-11-06 02:12:24 PM  
HeartBurnKid: Gee, it's almost as if this study is an outlier. Let's see if the results can be replicated.

Whether it is or not, the premise of the study completely disagrees with my personal experience. Okay, so weed might not help pain in all people...don't care. It does what I want it to do.
 
2009-11-06 02:13:31 PM  
ttintagel: If you're seriously claiming that the effect is as mild as that of aspirin, I'm going to have to call shenanigans. You don't have to go to a special funtimes "dispensary" to get aspirin, either. The conversation is obviously about regulated prescription medicines.

An argument can be made that marijuana should not be a regulated, prescription medicine, but rather an over-the-counter medicine. There are 2 reasons that certain medications require a prescription:

1. New medications will often start out as prescription due to a lack of safety data. Once safe use has been established, a once-prescription medication can be down-graded to over-the-counter.

2. Certain medications will always remain prescription, due to dangerous side-effects (of which the capacity to be addictive is one).

Marijuana is neither a new medication (having been used medically in other cultures for thousands of years), nor does it have any nasty side effects. In fact, marijuana is safer that your example of aspirin. More that 500 people die every year from overdoses of aspirin, vs. 0 people OD'ing on marijuana.
 
2009-11-06 02:14:01 PM  
Baby Diego: Chronic pain is actually something that's very tough to deal with, no matter which way you roll it. Your body will develop tolerance to the effects of cannabis or opiates.

Anyone using marijuana to treat chronic pain should read this.


Generally one takes a "tolerance break" for a few weeks for this very reason. The tolerance builds back up fairly quickly, and relief flows once more.

As for the chronic pain article, my chronic pain is caused by my body continuing to try to heal my hand. I doubt that cannabinoids are making physical injury worse.
 
2009-11-06 02:17:53 PM  
HeartBurnKid

Thanks for reading the actual article (/sarcasm). You know how I know you didn't?

It also raises questions about the efficacy of marijuana in relieving acute pain, given that endocannabinoids and the cannabinoids found in marijuana are so biochemically similar. "If you had a toothache, you probably wouldn't want to treat it with marijuana, because you could actually make it worse," Neugebauer said. "Now, for more pathological conditions like neuropathic pain, where the problem is a dysfunction within the nerves themselves and a subsequent disturbance throughout the nervous system that's not confined to the pain system, marijuana may be beneficial. There are studies that seem to show that. But our model shows cannabinoids over-activating the pain system, and it just doesn't seem like a good idea to further increase this effect."

"Stress-induced Pain" and "Neuropathic Pain" both agree entirely with this. Those are not your typical chronic pain, such as from an old minor injury. This study is not an outlier and does not disagree with those.

Thank you for fulfilling my expectations. I fully expected to get a knee-jerk reaction without having read the article.
 
2009-11-06 02:18:54 PM  
robkellyj: Seriously, if you guys are gonna spout legal shiat, and how you know what you're talking about because "you read something on Wiki," or you "read the Constitution," ... No, you know what - don't.

The argument about the prohibition of weed is just like any politically charged subject. Both sides spout some measure of bullshiat and the ignorant in the middle try to parrot whicever side they've signed up for without ever really trying to learn the truth of it. On the pro-MJ side, you get a lot of noise about prohibition being unconstitutional and that the lumber industry is responsible because hemp was a competing product. At least all that is somewhat based in reality. The anti-MJ camp just makes shiat up and brainwashes out kids to think it's true.
 
2009-11-06 02:24:11 PM  
LavenderWolf

As for the chronic pain article, my chronic pain is caused by my body continuing to try to heal my hand. I doubt that cannabinoids are making physical injury worse.

I'm certainly not going to pretend that I can give you medical advice over the Internet, for I am not a doctor and I don't know sh*t about you, so please do not assume that I'm trying to tell you how to live your life.

I just want people to have all the facts in front of them. I am glad you have found a way to live your life and I wouldn't want to take that way from you - at least not without offering you a much better alternative, which I certainly can't.
 
2009-11-06 02:30:00 PM  
grizzlyjohnson: robkellyj: Seriously, if you guys are gonna spout legal shiat, and how you know what you're talking about because "you read something on Wiki," or you "read the Constitution," ... No, you know what - don't.

The argument about the prohibition of weed is just like any politically charged subject. Both sides spout some measure of bullshiat and the ignorant in the middle try to parrot whicever side they've signed up for without ever really trying to learn the truth of it. On the pro-MJ side, you get a lot of noise about prohibition being unconstitutional and that the lumber industry is responsible because hemp was a competing product. At least all that the last part of which is somewhat based in reality. The anti-MJ camp just makes shiat up and brainwashes out kids to think it's true.


And your statement I agree with. The thing that gets me frustrated is people constantly parroting complete shiat that they hear without doing any research to find out the truth.

The fact is, what the anti-MJ'ers say isn't particularly relevant - because right now they have the legal power.

You would think that with something so vitally important as the laws within which we all have to live our lives, people that are pissed because they are negatively affected by those laws would LEARN HOW TO LEGALLY CHANGE THEM. It can be done, but to have any effect on a given system you must first understand the system.

Standing around biatching and quoting their neighbor, who just happens to be a justice with the Supreme Court of the Waverly Arms Homeowner's Association ain't gonna get it done.

And repeating or spreading those myths and falsehoods just compounds the problem, which Congress loves because they can just smile and continue screwing everybody.
 
2009-11-06 02:55:09 PM  
Baby Diego: HeartBurnKid

Thanks for reading the actual article (/sarcasm). You know how I know you didn't?

It also raises questions about the efficacy of marijuana in relieving acute pain, given that endocannabinoids and the cannabinoids found in marijuana are so biochemically similar. "If you had a toothache, you probably wouldn't want to treat it with marijuana, because you could actually make it worse," Neugebauer said. "Now, for more pathological conditions like neuropathic pain, where the problem is a dysfunction within the nerves themselves and a subsequent disturbance throughout the nervous system that's not confined to the pain system, marijuana may be beneficial. There are studies that seem to show that. But our model shows cannabinoids over-activating the pain system, and it just doesn't seem like a good idea to further increase this effect."

"Stress-induced Pain" and "Neuropathic Pain" both agree entirely with this. Those are not your typical chronic pain, such as from an old minor injury. This study is not an outlier and does not disagree with those.

Thank you for fulfilling my expectations. I fully expected to get a knee-jerk reaction without having read the article.


OK, so you said anybody suffering from "chronic pain" should think twice about marijuana, and now you're highlighting a passage that specifically says that it could be useful for many types of chronic pain, even if it only makes acute pain worse?

I don't think you read the article either.
 
2009-11-06 03:05:11 PM  
HeartBurnKid

The mechanism under which it makes acute pain worse also applies to certain types of chronic pain. Hence my prior comment about old injuries.

In any case, nothing you've said indicates this is an 'outlier' and your copypasta of the 'related articles' was also meaningless.
 
2009-11-06 03:10:37 PM  
robkellyj: Ballsy McSack:

No, I think he's right on. The wikipedia page for the DEA has this little blurb towards the beginning...
"The Drug Enforcement Administration was established on 1 July 1973, by Reorganization Plan No. 2 of 1973, signed by President Richard Nixon on 28 March 1973"

The "reorganization plan" was a "Presedential Reorganization Plan" An executive order. Basically, by putting a federal agency in charge of somethign that was not in the constitution, an leaving it now that states disagree on the matter, they're really infringing on state's rights and making the federal governemnt bigger.

Little known fact, Nixon, was in fact a Republican.

Little more disturbing fact, the person who is the head of the agency currently, is incredibly well educated, she has a B.S. in Criminal Justice from Bemidji State University in Minnesota which, not to be a dick, isn't exactly cream of the crop.

It's all executive bullshiat that needs to be reformed or done away with so that it doesn't impede on states rights.

Go bigger government by Republicans!

No, he's right off, as are you, and most people with an internet GED in law. And for the record, almost ALL politicians want more power and control - doesn't matter whether they are R or D's. The only one in the current Congress of the U.S. you can count on to consistently vote in favor of smaller, limited government is Ron Paul (like him or don't - it's true).


6) As head of the executive branch, and empowered by the Controlled Substances Act, Nixon created the DEA in 1973 - to enforce the CSA.



I think my brevity may have accounted for a lot of the concern you had with my post. That and the fact that for the purposes of a simple comment on Fark, it made it easiest just to refer to the wiki source. Although I will say this, the DEA was made mainly to consolidate the random agencies that had been created prior to the DEA's founding.

I'm just happy to have an intelligent person here, I'm so used to ranting expecting the comments to fall on deaf ears, or at the most Phil Herup.

I still think prohibition causes most of the interstate and international commerce BS that can be mildly applicable.

In general I agree with you.


LavenderWolf: Baby Diego: slick_rick2k

The dedicated potheads, the daily smokers that I know have nearly all gone to vaporizers so there is no combustion.

Of all the dedicated recreational users I know one went to the vaporizer. The rest all smoke cigs and marijuana. The strong overlap between marijuana and cigarette use makes studying these things hard. Harder still because these studies self-select so frequently.

Will gladly lend my lungs to any study of the effects. I don't smoke cigarettes. Where do I sign up?


Me too! I smoke mj, but have never smoked a cigarette.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: specialkae: several of the younger people I know have gone to doctors from lists and for a fee of anywhere from $175-265 the doc will write them a recommend for medical mj-anything from bone spurs, to anxiety and yes, stress. That can't possibly be legal, can it?

I can go to my doctor and get a prescription for Xanax or Valium for stress. Most doctors see little risk in giving you a few mild tranquilizers. If you really need them for stress, they're effective. If you're just getting them to chill a bit on a Friday night, well, there's not much harm in that (Yes, I know they're potentially addictive, but like alcohol, not everyone who uses it recreationally is an addict)

Why should marijuana be different?


Yeah, if I had health insurance and they could write a year long prescription for xanax that would be great, but also far more dangerous health wise than mj, not like it's super terrible, but I'll take the effects of mj over a xannybar.
 
2009-11-06 03:12:01 PM  
Baby Diego: So that's where my theory comes from. Obviously, real scientific tests are better.

Agreed, and to any real scientific types out there, I am willing to be a participant in your study!

Other research I've done (on myself...lol) quit drinking 6 months ago, and feel 10 years younger. Never felt better in my life (don't feel that way about bud when I go on vacation or abstain otherwise).

Brainsick: /I also quit drinking a few years ago so my "evening beer" is an "evening bowl"

Hey, welcome to the club
 
2009-11-06 03:29:28 PM  
50 year old, white-collar professional. Married for 28 years. Put two kids through college. House paid for. Debt free.

Kicked alcohol dependency problem. Can't seem to kick my addiction to Copenhagen snuff, though.

Toking off and on for over 30 years. No health issues from it. No addiction issues. Herb is much kinder to me (and those around me) than the booze and nicotine.

/2 cents
 
2009-11-06 03:34:01 PM  
Jim_Callahan: Marijuana has a similar possibility of aggravating previously undetectable psychoses into full-blown paranoia or debilitating psychosis... at a similar very, very tiny rate.

This is a lie. Stop "helping."

Despite all the psuedo-scientific blathering about pot increasing the risk of schizophrenia, the fact is that over the last 50 years, epidemiological studies show the rate of schizophrenia remaining flat, despite the enormous rise in pot use over that period. For folks who respect actual data, this is definitive.
 
2009-11-06 03:37:50 PM  
TechnicolorYawn: 50 year old, white-collar professional. Married for 28 years. Put two kids through college. House paid for. Debt free.

Kicked alcohol dependency problem. Can't seem to kick my addiction to Copenhagen snuff, though.

Toking off and on for over 30 years. No health issues from it. No addiction issues. Herb is much kinder to me (and those around me) than the booze and nicotine.

/2 cents


It's true, copenhagen is hard to quit. I did it, but it wasn't easy. Felt like such an a-hole while doing it too.
 
2009-11-06 03:40:39 PM  
Baby Diego: Bhopper

oh now that's rich. keep trusting the government to tell you which substances are helpful and which are harmful instead of thinking for yourself. best of luck with that.

And just how would you determine the toxicity or efficacy of various substances and/or the combination of various substances by 'thinking for yourself'? Self experimentation? Or by relying on the same studies and evidence that the governmental regulatory bodies use?


Vioxx, baby!
 
2009-11-06 03:50:29 PM  
I have asthma, grind my teeth, sleepwalk, frequently have insomnia, the joints in my hands and wrists hurt from using a keyboard and playing video games too much...
/really manic and slightly deprssive
 
2009-11-06 03:51:11 PM  
knobmaker: Baby Diego: Bhopper

oh now that's rich. keep trusting the government to tell you which substances are helpful and which are harmful instead of thinking for yourself. best of luck with that.

And just how would you determine the toxicity or efficacy of various substances and/or the combination of various substances by 'thinking for yourself'? Self experimentation? Or by relying on the same studies and evidence that the governmental regulatory bodies use?

Vioxx, baby!


I'll see your Vioxx and raise you a Thalidomide.
 
2009-11-06 03:52:43 PM  
knobmaker: And just how would you determine the toxicity or efficacy of various substances and/or the combination of various substances by 'thinking for yourself'?

Have you ever had a chronic illness?

What you do - is you try everything. You go to various doctors, they try various things.

You stick with what works for you, in the end. Prozac, for example, only works for 50% of the people to whom it's prescribed (apparently high doses of fish oil capsules work for 38% of patients in the exact same type of controlled studies; how do you know which group - if any- you are in? Self-experiment - that's what the doc does when s/he prescribes anything to you).

I can't think of a single drug or preparation that works 100% of the time. Some people respond well to one of many different treatments, some people don't respond well to much of anything at all.

No one knows why.

But surely the sick person gets to say something about how they feel and what alleviates their suffering.
 
2009-11-06 03:57:07 PM  
thelordofcheese: I have asthma, grind my teeth, sleepwalk, frequently have insomnia, the joints in my hands and wrists hurt from using a keyboard and playing video games too much...
/really manic and slightly deprssive


Most of the marijuana-prescribing doctors really don't want to spend the time listening to such a long list of complaints. If you want to come to California to get some weed (I didn't check your profile, sorry) pare it down to one or two of those things.

There are various doctors who write the recommendations - most of them do only those prescriptions, although that's changing and there are some regular doctors who do write recommendations.

You pay about $150 for the prescription. It's good for a year. Then you go to a dispensary (in some places, like Reseda or Woodland Hills, there are bunches of them, they glance at your recommendation and you're good to go). Other more conservative places, you have to have home delivery. It's about $360-400 an ounce.

So yeah, nearly everyone in California is stoned all the time. And we feel pretty good.

Oh - and you probably want Indica, not Sativa, if you're bipolar.
 
2009-11-06 04:01:09 PM  
Baby Diego: And just how would you determine the toxicity or efficacy of various substances and/or the combination of various substances by 'thinking for yourself'? Self experimentation? Or by relying on the same studies and evidence that the governmental regulatory bodies use?

By educating myself, by drawing conclusions based on facts at hand and by looking at history.

We all know, for example that the FDA is essentially in the pocket of big pharma. So I certainly wouldn't put much stock in "governmental regulatory bodies." How many drugs in widespread use have have been recalled in the last few decades? 50? 100? 200? How many of these had horrific side effects later discovered? How many drugs are prescribed that aren't really needed?

You seem to come from the misguided assumption that our drug laws stem from concern for your health or well being. But all of our drug laws were born of racism and religious zealotry, and more recently corporatism. Your health has nothing to do with it.
 
2009-11-06 04:17:35 PM  
In other news, Americans have suffered an epidemic of previously unrealized illnesses that can, not surprisingly, only be cured by that pill they just saw a commercial for.

/thread. You ended the sentence with a preposition, but you still win the thread.

Also, people who think smoking weed is good for them are delusional. I love smoking weed as much as anyone, but I have no illusions about its negative effect on my lungs.
 
2009-11-06 04:25:20 PM  
Bhopper: Baby Diego: And just how would you determine the toxicity or efficacy of various substances and/or the combination of various substances by 'thinking for yourself'? Self experimentation? Or by relying on the same studies and evidence that the governmental regulatory bodies use?

By educating myself, by drawing conclusions based on facts at hand and by looking at history.

We all know, for example that the FDA is essentially in the pocket of big pharma. So I certainly wouldn't put much stock in "governmental regulatory bodies." How many drugs in widespread use have have been recalled in the last few decades? 50? 100? 200? How many of these had horrific side effects later discovered? How many drugs are prescribed that aren't really needed?
You seem to come from the misguided assumption that our drug laws stem from concern for your health or well being. But all of our drug laws were born of racism and religious zealotry, and more recently corporatism. Your health has nothing to do with it.



These 2 things. Doctors don't cure anymore they only treat.
 
2009-11-06 04:25:37 PM  
I have been fighting this psuedo-legalization of this drug for years and every day I seee more and more laxity in the enforcement of our already established "anti-pot" laws. These people are not sick! It's obvious that they are faking their maladies, just yesterday I caught an obvioulsy healthy hippy walking into one of these "dispensaries" and questioned him on his illness to which he replied "I got blindness in my eye". Blindness in his eye? How was he walking into the place then?

So I tried to explain to him that he was violating the spirit of our laws and while he stared at me blearily, I kicked his white cane out from underneath him and tripped him yelling "Didn't see that one coming did you hippy!" Now he has a "medical" reason to smoke at least. We cannot allow this softness to continue, the great state of California needs to shake these fleas off before it's too late, mark my words.
 
2009-11-06 04:33:20 PM  
Fizics: I kicked his white cane out from underneath him and tripped him yelling "Didn't see that one coming did you hippy!"

An anti-marijuana zealot prone to violent acts? what a surprise!

I bet you prefer alcohol, the drug which is connected to 80% of all acts of violence committed in the US, right?
 
2009-11-06 04:36:29 PM  
joeflood: Just let the people smoke. I don't give a flying fark about marijuana, medical or otherwise. I've never seen a person fly off the handle while smoking pot, and believe me, I've been around a few too many wastes of life, I mean pot heads.

Don't get me wrong, they all have jobs, they all pay their bills, they even do non-pot-related activities. That being said, they still prefer to spend their spare cash on weed.

Make marijuana legit and we can tax it. Keep it on the black market, and it's lost tax revenue.


Is it okay if I ask a question? Why do you view it as detrimental if they spend their extra cash on MJ rather than some other leisure activity?

Are you making the argument that since it's not directly taxed (so far as I know anyway, my collective paid their quarterly taxes just recently and was chatting with me about it) they're not contributing to ending the economic recession?

Or do you just think spending their spare cash on MJ rather than cigs, booze, DVD's/CD's, going out/to the movies, or whatever, is just simply intrinsically worse? If so, why?

/not trolling
//genuinely curious
 
2009-11-06 04:49:57 PM  
Atypical Person Reading Fark: thelordofcheese: I have asthma, grind my teeth, sleepwalk, frequently have insomnia, the joints in my hands and wrists hurt from using a keyboard and playing video games too much...
/really manic and slightly deprssive

Most of the marijuana-prescribing doctors really don't want to spend the time listening to such a long list of complaints. If you want to come to California to get some weed (I didn't check your profile, sorry) pare it down to one or two of those things.

There are various doctors who write the recommendations - most of them do only those prescriptions, although that's changing and there are some regular doctors who do write recommendations.

You pay about $150 for the prescription. It's good for a year. Then you go to a dispensary (in some places, like Reseda or Woodland Hills, there are bunches of them, they glance at your recommendation and you're good to go). Other more conservative places, you have to have home delivery. It's about $360-400 an ounce.

So yeah, nearly everyone in California is stoned all the time. And we feel pretty good.

Oh - and you probably want Indica, not Sativa, if you're bipolar.


Yeah, but I can't get up in the morning. Although alcohol raises the risk of sleepwalking, I find I can still get up and grab some coffee. And nothing wrong with a nice porter at lunch.
/just need to stay clear of whiskey shots
 
2009-11-06 04:50:00 PM  
Tallykat: do you just think spending their spare cash on MJ rather than cigs, booze, DVD's/CD's, going out/to the movies, or whatever, is just simply intrinsically worse? If so, why?

It's actually all about money and keeping Americans "productive". Example: The guys that had raging cocaine habits when making the money they now use for influencing current pot laws. Pot makes people introspective, "lazy", and relaxed. All bad qualities for a worker bee...and hence, "Bad For America!"

/Good luck getting anybody (on "their" side) to admit it though
 
2009-11-06 04:56:59 PM  
jjorsett: I'm curious: what's the price of dispensary pot vs street pot of the same quality?

This one's hard to quantify, but I'll take a stab at it. Bear in mind this is my personal experience, so it's anecdotal; i.e., worthless on Fark.

The dispensary price for MJ by weight is roughly double the street price, but where you hit the snag is in the comparable quality of the merchandise.

Dispensaries, by and large, don't sell crap weed. You won't see Mex ditch weed or that brown brick crap in any dispensaries. Even the cheaper stuff (yes there is a price range) is consistently better in quality. Plus, and this part is important, YOU GET TO CHOOSE.

There is a varied selection, neatly divided into indicas and sativas. You can examine and smell the buds yourself. You can ask the bud tender what will help most with your particular ailment, and if the place is good, you will get good advice.

You don't have to worry about getting mugged or attacked by the folks running the dispensaries, they WANT you to have a good experience and come back- there is lots of competition out there. And if you're nervous, the friendly dispensary security guard will be happy to walk you to your car and see you safely out of the parking lot.

I pay double the street price for my superb quality MJ and do it happily, and have a friendly, reliable and SAFE place to get it from. Worth the money in my mind.

And just as an aside, the prices are creeping slowly down as they get established. I was pleased to see as they got past the initial business startup costs, the prices were going down.

Oh, and they have a donation jar on the counter for their terminally ill patients. I throw a buck in every time just because, so that's an added cost I supposed I should list to be accurate.

/ramble off
//I know, I know, I just love my collective. They're so awesome- everything you could ask for and scrupulous about following what the rules/regs the state and county have bothered to specify.
 
2009-11-06 05:16:53 PM  
Tallykat: jjorsett: I'm curious: what's the price of dispensary pot vs street pot of the same quality?


The dispensary price for MJ by weight is roughly double the street price, but where you hit the snag is in the comparable quality of the merchandise.


Honestly if you're going to dispensaries that are charging you double the street price, you're going to the wrong ones.

check out www.weedmaps.com, there's a ton of great places, especially in LA and SD now that charge the same price for an 8th as I got when I was buying from my friend.

Not only do you get the choice, I've found places with great weed at around 295 an ounce or better. (Medco Organics FTW).

Shop around, this business is getting competitve and there are some great deals out there for weed in CA.
 
2009-11-06 05:20:10 PM  
Brainsick: Tallykat: do you just think spending their spare cash on MJ rather than cigs, booze, DVD's/CD's, going out/to the movies, or whatever, is just simply intrinsically worse? If so, why?

It's actually all about money and keeping Americans "productive". Example: The guys that had raging cocaine habits when making the money they now use for influencing current pot laws. Pot makes people introspective, "lazy", and relaxed. All bad qualities for a worker bee...and hence, "Bad For America!"

/Good luck getting anybody (on "their" side) to admit it though


Sad, isn't it? And would someone tell me why I kill a thread EVERY time I talk about my joyous conversion to a quasi-legal pot smoker?????
 
2009-11-06 05:24:05 PM  
Well, I have cancer of the glaucoma.
 
2009-11-06 05:27:48 PM  
Rickerkioz: Tallykat: jjorsett: I'm curious: what's the price of dispensary pot vs street pot of the same quality?


The dispensary price for MJ by weight is roughly double the street price, but where you hit the snag is in the comparable quality of the merchandise.


Honestly if you're going to dispensaries that are charging you double the street price, you're going to the wrong ones.

check out www.weedmaps.com, there's a ton of great places, especially in LA and SD now that charge the same price for an 8th as I got when I was buying from my friend.

Not only do you get the choice, I've found places with great weed at around 295 an ounce or better. (Medco Organics FTW).

Shop around, this business is getting competitve and there are some great deals out there for weed in CA.


Interesting! (And glad to see I didn't kill the thread after all.)

What's the spread on street/dispensary prices for... say, a gram, an 1/8 and a 1/2 where you are? I used to pay $30 for an 1/8, and $50 to $60 for a 1/4 for decent (not great) quality stuff.

I'm in San Diego County, just for reference purposes.
 
2009-11-06 05:43:20 PM  
Tallykat: jjorsett: I'm curious: what's the price of dispensary pot vs street pot of the same quality?

This one's hard to quantify, but I'll take a stab at it. Bear in mind this is my personal experience, so it's anecdotal; i.e., worthless on Fark.

The dispensary price for MJ by weight is roughly double the street price, but where you hit the snag is in the comparable quality of the merchandise.

Dispensaries, by and large, don't sell crap weed. You won't see Mex ditch weed or that brown brick crap in any dispensaries. Even the cheaper stuff (yes there is a price range) is consistently better in quality. Plus, and this part is important, YOU GET TO CHOOSE.

There is a varied selection, neatly divided into indicas and sativas. You can examine and smell the buds yourself. You can ask the bud tender what will help most with your particular ailment, and if the place is good, you will get good advice.

You don't have to worry about getting mugged or attacked by the folks running the dispensaries, they WANT you to have a good experience and come back- there is lots of competition out there. And if you're nervous, the friendly dispensary security guard will be happy to walk you to your car and see you safely out of the parking lot.

I pay double the street price for my superb quality MJ and do it happily, and have a friendly, reliable and SAFE place to get it from. Worth the money in my mind.

And just as an aside, the prices are creeping slowly down as they get established. I was pleased to see as they got past the initial business startup costs, the prices were going down.

Oh, and they have a donation jar on the counter for their terminally ill patients. I throw a buck in every time just because, so that's an added cost I supposed I should list to be accurate.

/ramble off
//I know, I know, I just love my collective. They're so awesome- everything you could ask for and scrupulous about following what the rules/regs the state and county have bothered to specify.


I had never heard this one before. That is so very very awesome. Thank you for doing that.
 
2009-11-06 06:31:15 PM  
As long as they tax the hell out of it, I don't care if it's for recreational use or not.
 
2009-11-06 06:50:20 PM  
Screw the tax part. Just legalize it.

Aslo, cocaine cures drowsiness. Just sayin.
 
2009-11-06 07:03:14 PM  
Big_Fat_Liar: Screw the tax part. Just legalize it.

Aslo, cocaine cures drowsiness. Just sayin.


If it's California, there will be a tax on it.
 
2009-11-07 12:42:07 AM  
Mugato: Sybarite: bleeding from the asshole...

Would you mind getting out of the pool?
 
2009-11-07 02:58:41 AM  
This is why I wasn't in favor of legalizing MJ. You get a pot store on every corner and suddenly everyone's sick and in need of some weed.
 
2009-11-07 01:37:06 PM  
j0ndas: This is why I wasn't in favor of legalizing MJ. You get a pot store on every corner and suddenly everyone's sick and in need of some weed.

You do realize those people were probably already smoking pot right? Now they can just do so without an undue risk of violent crime sewn in. Admit it, you just hate to see people enjoying themselves.
 
2009-11-07 07:53:09 PM  
We in California whine loudly about a great deal of misfortunes that we suffer daily.
None are real misfortunes.

But, we believe that we know better than you.
Mostly because you aren't a Californian.

And apparently our entire population of 17-26 year olds have glaucoma
 
2009-11-07 08:46:15 PM  
Fizics: I have been fighting this psuedo-legalization of this drug for years and every day I seee more and more laxity in the enforcement of our already established "anti-pot" laws. These people are not sick! It's obvious that they are faking their maladies, just yesterday I caught an obvioulsy healthy hippy walking into one of these "dispensaries" and questioned him on his illness to which he replied "I got blindness in my eye". Blindness in his eye? How was he walking into the place then?

So I tried to explain to him that he was violating the spirit of our laws and while he stared at me blearily, I kicked his white cane out from underneath him and tripped him yelling "Didn't see that one coming did you hippy!" Now he has a "medical" reason to smoke at least. We cannot allow this softness to continue, the great state of California needs to shake these fleas off before it's too late, mark my words.


Oooooooooh, I see. This guy's a troll.
 
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