GooberMcFly: Anyone have a link to the video of the hit? I've heard it was a clean hit, but that's hard to believe...

Youtube has it, search for Michael Liambas or the other guy's name. It wasn't a very harsh hit, just bad timing by both players and a very powerful hit. Looked clean to me though.

I don't think the hit itself warranted Liambas being suspended for the rest of his OHL career. If the OHL is taking into account the kid's reputation as a dirty player + the hit + the results of the hit then you can kind of see where they are coming from.

What should come from this is player's being required to tighten up their chinstraps. Your helmet is there for a reason.

Video

/looks like a savage but pretty much unavoidable hit to me

Rev.K: Green. Should be an interesting discussion.

2 - Fanelli is 16 years old and is therefore a child. Like it or not, there was bound to be "OH NOES THE CHILDRENS" outrage, which the OHL would certainly like to avoid. I'm not taking a side here, I'm just saying it's certainly a factor.

I sincerely hope people don't start talking about this in terms of children vs. adults. 16 year-olds can play in the CHL and so can 20 year-olds. It would be unreasonable to expect a player to know the age of the opposing players and adjust their game accordingly.

If the difference in player size due to age is significant enough to affect a suspension decision our whole junior program is going to have problems.

Suspending a guy for the season because the guy he crunched doesn't know how to wear a helmet is weak.

It's called charging, people.

And not letting up when the opponent is turning is one thing, but he possibly finished him with his hands/forearm after he turned. He had to get some piece of him since he skated all that distance to get there. Is this not what we have been teaching kids in youth hockey not to do for at least the last 10 years?

You wanna treat the opposition like a piece of meat instead of a human being? Destroy a life or livelyhood? Go for it.

I've been following/playing hockey the last 30 years. I love the hard hits, blood n' guts, brawls etc. as much as the next caveman fan, but it's just an obvious disrespect to your opponent and their well being. It's one thing to hit a guy and have him turn last second, it's another to charge from the blueline from a players blindside with the sole intention of inflicting as much pain/hurt as possible.

Suspension well earned IMHO. Liambas certainly got his wish of impressing everyone by being the big hitting hero.

Steve Downie imitators deserve to have their draft year cancled out. Make a name for yourself by being a player, not a headunter artist.

Clean hit. Please God let this kid recover to play again. What needs to be addressed is maybe putting boys on the ice with men.

On the league, not the guy who delivered the hit.

...and, if you've ever been hit, even a half shield will not always protect the front of your face from being smashed like a potato chip against the boards/glass, tightened or not tightened.

S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.: Stuff

Absolutely

Before anyone else comes in with the "but but but he TURNED!" BS argument, this is Junior, not NHL. Golden standard in Junior hockey leagues for boarding and hit from behind calls is that you are in full control, at all times, when you're hitting someone. Liambas was skating at Fanelli to hit him from at least the tops of the circles.

Also, people in this forum calling this a clean hit? Are you kidding? Liambas went for the head on that shot. Wouldn't have mattered if Fanelli was facing him or not - it was an elbow/forearm to the head, which is also rather frowned upon.

Rev.K: There's a lot of people decrying the suspension calling it harsh.

Clearly they have no recollection of the hard line the OHL has taken in recent years. Seriously, this wasn't to be unexpected.

Also this. OHL players are not professional hockey players, many of them are still in developmental stages of growth. They should not and will not be held to professional playing standards, and to do so would be foolish in the extreme.

WhyteRaven74: There's another angle on the hit, from the camera that's behind the goal. In it you can see Liambas' forearm and elbow come up around the guy's head and neck. In fact that's where most of the contact was. It wasn't a shoulder into the back. Just go to :38 in this for the better angle (pops)

And a hit like that, doesn't matter what league, you'll sit for a while.fark, I hadn't even seen that angle before and I called it a dirty hit...

That was a clear headhunt, Liambas hit him in the head with an elbow. I'm not sure rest of the season is even enough for that bullshiat.

Alright, tag fail there...

Clearly a dirty hit from that angle. From behind, to the head, with the elbow.

Please stop calling it a clean hit ya fools.

CAPS GOAL!

WhyteRaven74: It's how he hit the guy that counts, not that he did.

MonkeyButton: Clean hit.

Far far from it.

Not that far from it. When you're hitting a taller guy you tend to get your arms up. It was still a charge, but I can't see it as intent to injure.

Not that I'm defending the hit, but...

How did the guy that was hit have his helmet fall off so quickly? Was it done up properly? This is OHL right? So should he have had a full face shield on?
Why'd he turn his back to the guy hitting him?

caid-bp7: WhyteRaven74: It's how he hit the guy that counts, not that he did.

MonkeyButton: Clean hit.

Far far from it.

Not that far from it. When you're hitting a taller guy you tend to get your arms up. It was still a charge, but I can't see it as intent to injure.

No, no you don't. Why in the bloody hell would you think that?
If you're a smaller player hitting a bigger player you get compact so you can keep your centre of gravity low.

No doubt this is all about the injury sustained, but you don't charge a guy and put his face into the glass with an elbow to the back of the head. It was avoidable.

WhyteRaven74: Skating from way out to plow into them is just frowned upon.

Don Cherry's Rock'Em Sock'Em 1 through 20 aren't too sure what you're talking about here.

Guy is a goon. Goon type hit.

/Goony goon goon.

jekostas:
No, no you don't. Why in the bloody hell would you think that?
If you're a smaller player hitting a bigger player you get compact so you can keep your centre of gravity low.

If I'm trying to take someone bigger than me into the boards I tend to get the arms up. It's not a big open ice hit, I'm not sure how a lower centre of gravity would help.

caid-bp7: WhyteRaven74: Skating from way out to plow into them is just frowned upon.

Don Cherry's Rock'Em Sock'Em 1 through 20 aren't too sure what you're talking about here.

Look you f*cking idiot, stop comparing NHL hits to the OHL. The rules are different, the players are younger, and danger of significant, lifelong injury is much greater.

ARE YOU A RETARD?

IT was charging, and it happens 20 times in a game and does warrant a minor, perhaps even a major under intent to injure, but it was a loose chin strap and stiff metal between the glass that injured him

WhyteRaven74: Rules say you keep your arms down, you hit someone around the head with your arm you'll be going to the penalty box, at least. Even if the guy sprung right back up that hit was a game misconduct for Liambis.

jicon: Why'd he turn his back to the guy hitting him?

cause he was going to take the puck and clear it, and he had no reason to suspect a guy 50 feet away would accelerate to come at him.

A kid like Liambas would take a 2 minute penalty to get a big hit. That was more or less his role on that team. Generally if you hit a guy with your arms up it's 2 mins for elbowing.

And I disagree that that the charged from 50 feet away when Fanelli's back was already turned. That's getting into hyperbole.

kenfury: IT was charging, and it happens 20 times in a game and does warrant a minor, perhaps even a major under intent to injure, but it was a loose chin strap and stiff metal between the glass that injured him

Intent to injure is an automatic Match penalty. Intentional injury is a Match penalty. Injury with an extraordinary degree of violence is a Match penalty.

This penalty fell under the third clause.

Injury without intent is a Major penalty.

Please stop using the term if you don't know what it means.

Clearly the guys on this thread who played and the guys who didn't play are making themselves known.
Okay, I'll concede a charge. Minor penalty.
Suspension, I honest to Christ don't see it.
No one has weighed in about the farking league letting a child play with a man.

And again: Please God this kid gets better and has a long career achieving all his dreams.

This ain't tennis, kids.

jekostas:

Look you f*cking idiot, stop comparing NHL hits to the OHL. The rules are different, the players are younger, and danger of significant, lifelong injury is much greater.

ARE YOU A RETARD?

I think you're confused about how these leagues work. There are 18, 19 and 20 year old's playing in both the CHL and the NHL. There are also small guys and big guys playing in both. I don't know why the comparison doesn't stand.

Also, calm down dude.

caid-bp7:
And I disagree that that the charged from 50 feet away when Fanelli's back was already turned. That's getting into hyperbole.

I'll say this slowly and clearly with big letters, so perhaps you'll finally get it.

NHL RULES ARE NOT OHL RULES.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF FANELLI TURNED HIS BACK - IT IS LIAMBAS' RESPONSIBILITY TO STOP AND NOT HIT HIM.

This is THE golden standard used in Junior leagues, OHL included. Stop with the bullshiat about it being a borderline hit. Stop rationalizing a severe injury (got his hands up to push a guy into the boards, who was already against the boards?). You have zero clue what you're talking about.

MonkeyButton: Clearly the guys on this thread who played and the guys who didn't play are making themselves known.
Okay, I'll concede a charge. Minor penalty.
Suspension, I honest to Christ don't see it.
No one has weighed in about the farking league letting a child play with a man.



Right, okay, let's back up.

I played for 10 years
I refereed for 12, including Junior (BCHL).

The age differential is one of the results of a truly terrible study done some 12 years ago for the Ontario Minor Hockey League that severely downplayed the dangers of bodychecking to players in the developmental stages of growth.

Besides the large age range in the OHL, it introduced bodychecking at a much younger age.

Here's the thing - the AUTHOR of the study came out a year later during a CBC special and admitted that the data he used to pen that study was flawed, and has been desperately trying to get it rescinded since, but the governers of the OMHL have refused to do it.

The one thing that the OHL has done correctly since that time is re-introduced considerably harsher penalties for Boarding, Hits from Behind, and Hits to the Head, since these three classes of penalties are the mostly likely to cause severe injuries.

Oh, and in this case, Boarding means "any hit that causes an opponent to be thrown heavily into the boards".

Frowns on the leagues shenanigans

/Wanna go, pretty boy?

Wow, that goalie really teed him up for that hit. Look how darted out of Liambas' way to avoid the interference call. Obstruction crack down indeed.

Also not sure if it would help in this situation, but this is a perfect example of why visors are bad. A blow directly to the front of the visor pops the helmet from its snug fit. Even if the strap is done tight, the helmet dislodges from its intended position on the head.

I think was definitely boarding (despite the D turning his back at the the last second) and possibly charging. It deserves a fair suspension, not the entire season. But the OHL seems to be obsessed to turning itself into a puff league lately with its overprotective hockey mom rule changes lately, so i'm not surprised.

OHL Commish David Branch has no mercy for nasty hits like this, especially when a man (Liambas, age 20) hits a child (Fanelli, age 16) in an unnecessary manner.

Liambas did not need to come skating in from the blue line to make this hit. Please remember, the object of hitting a player in hockey who has possession of the puck is simply to remove the puck from their possession, not to cause major bodily harm. Now I understand the type of player that Liambas is, he's an energy guy (some would call it being a goon) who's job is to get his teammates fired up. Either with a good fight or a devastating hit, but this was clearly over the line.

Personally, I don't think this suspension is too much. There was a definite intent to injure. Mr. Branch needs to show the parents of the players in his league that thier children are going to be safe playing in the OHL. And that means handing down harsh suspensions to anyone who doesn't want to follow the rules.

This wasn't a clean hit and i did deserve a suspension, but it wasn't really that bad. To me, there didn't appear to be any malicious intent, and every angle I've seen it look like the point of contact was shoulder to the back of the shoulder/armpit area. I had heard that he turned, but usually all that means is that a guy turned a blindside hit into a hit from behind, but this guy quickly did a 180. Plus, if Fanelli had've been wearing his helmet properly he might not have missed a shift.

David Branch has always protected the star teams, including the Kitchener Rangers. Any time I listen to him on Fan590 or anywhere else he continues, I come away thinking he could not possibly be dumber, then of course the next time he proves me wrong. Last season he suspended a player for 20 games, despite being quoted in the press release announcing the suspension saying that there was no slew foot on the play, nor was there intent. But, he claims since the player was injured (reinjured an old injury actually because he went into the boards funny) he "had" to suspend him.

The OHL/CHL continues to add rules to try and protect it's players from injury, and you have to applaud it for that, but many of them are only having the effect that players get into the habit of making dangerous plays, and it it doesn't catch up to them in juniors, it is certainly going to get the guys who end up at the next level. Especially if that next level for them is ECHL, or some of the other low minor leagues.

Good call on the suspension, I'm certainly okay with it (granted it's not my career that just ended).

If you're going to hit someone, hit them. ALL of them. That hit was a 'fly-by' that only took a piece of him. Usually when that happens the part that gets hit is the head or the knee. Finishing a check is one thing, but running a guy after he has already made the play is not part of the game.

And don't come with 'it happened so fast'. Anticipation is part of the game.

My two cents. Feel free to disagree. It won't do the hitter or the hittee any good at this point.

Obvious head shot and charge, I love aggressive hockey but the malicious shiat is ruining the game. Simple respect for another human being, is that so difficult?


/see: Mitchell on Towes, Willie coulda killed him, but he didn't charge he just stopped and the kid with his head down hit a 200+ pound stationary object. Ouch, lesson learned, not malicious.

Some thoughts:

Four full years diffence between the players - Liambas will turn 21 during the season. I wonder about the rational/wisdom about letting overage players in the league. Junior leagues are in large part developmental in nature. I believe people follow junior hockey more readily than non-NHL senior hockey in part for the allure of seeing tomorrows NHL'ers. It would be interesting to know how many overage junior players make it to the show, particularly in any meaningful way.


Liambas' stats (new window) are a case in point. No goals and five assists in 60 games two seasons ago. While hockey has its role players those are pretty paltry numbers. He was aquired as a free agent and is listed as a free agent in the NHL (never drafted?). Also he only played 13 games last year - perhaps someone knows why.



Regarding the hit and suspension:

The hit was dirty because the elbow to the head. It doesn't help Liambas that he took a bit of a run and indeed hit him from behind. All three plus a loose chinstrap just happened to create the perfect storm.

Combine with Liambas' overage status, paulty stats, limited draft potential, previous history (John Tavares hit from behind by Michael Liambas (new window)) and the rational for the suspension comes into focus.

Headshot, good ridance.

northgrave: Four full years diffence between the players - Liambas will turn 21 during the season. I wonder about the rational/wisdom about letting overage players in the league. Junior leagues are in large part developmental in nature. I believe people follow junior hockey more readily than non-NHL senior hockey in part for the allure of seeing tomorrows NHL'ers. It would be interesting to know how many overage junior players make it to the show, particularly in any meaningful way.

I understand your point, but for the most part disagree. Perhaps there should be some rule as to who can and can't play an overage season. Guys shouldn't be allowed to play if they are only making the team because they are bigger and that size is their primary "skill." I don't know how you enforce it (total PIM, some kind of PIM:points ratio, etc...), but if you could come up with a reasonable rule then I think it would be a good thing to keep goons from playing overage year. That said, I have a friend who played for an overage year in the OHL a couple years ago (he is playing University hockey right now, FWIW) and I think that a player like he is, was probably a good influence and teacher for a lot of the younger guys. Lots of teams seem to use at least one overage slots for that kind of "responsible" player.

While I disagree with the suspension (see above), I think that the Otters should lose an overage slot for the season as well, as should be the case when any over aged player is suspended.

It's the same clean hit ten thousand other players have endured.

This time, it ended horribly. Hockey is a contact sport, and - as surely as the sun rises - there will be serious injuries.

The players know it; they've known it since they first put on skates. But they play anyway.

To suspend Liambas for the season is pointless. He did nothing wrong.