*lies in wait for the people who DRTFA*

Cagey B: *lies in wait for the people who DRTFA*

I RTFA and the headline is a direct quote from TFA. I'm confused, what is it you're waiting for?

bogey: I'm confused, what is it you're waiting for?

The people who will see "humiliating retreat" and "Obama administration" and instantly go into salivating attack mode because they think it's about the United States surrendering to a scary brown people country.

CruiserTwelve: Hillary's gonna land a jet fighter on an aircraft carrier and declare Mission Accomplished.

The mental image of HRC in a flight suit with a big ol' crotch bulge is cracking me up.

THA JOOOOOOOOOOS

Seriously, though, good article.

pandabear: TFA: eat away at the land on which they hope to establish a state of their own

I wonder why the Palestinians didn't hope to establish a state on the West Bank when it was part of Jordan, or why the Jordanians didn't allow them equality, democracy, and individual rights.

What's your point? That the Palestinians should just resign themselves to eternal second class citizenship under Israeli rule? Or that they should just happily give all of the West Bank to Israel and disappear entirely?

All sides in this conflict have made massive errors throughout the last 60 years. Using those errors to deny any side's right to a just peace is just silly.

B,but a vote for Obama was a vote for the death of Israel! Joe the Plumber told me!

CruiserTwelve: bogey: what is it you're waiting for?

Hillary's gonna land a jet fighter on an aircraft carrier and declare Mission Accomplished.

If you want to get Hillary's ass AND ego onto that aircraft carrier, you're going to need a C-130 and a lot of hope and change.

"why the Jordanians didn't allow them equality, democracy, and individual rights."

The Jordanians have given the Palestinians living in Jordan full Jordanian citizenship. I'd like to see Israel do that.

Trey Le Parc: CruiserTwelve: bogey: what is it you're waiting for?

Hillary's gonna land a jet fighter on an aircraft carrier and declare Mission Accomplished.

If you want to get Hillary's ass AND ego onto that aircraft carrier, you're going to need a C-130 and a lot of hope and change.

Hey, no problem- C-130s have landed and taken off from carriers with no problem. They just don't make a habit of it. No hope or change needed.

ragekage: Hey, no problem- C-130s have landed and taken off from carriers with no problem. They just don't make a habit of it. No hope or change needed.

I was about to call bullshiat, but damn!

The House Resolution is ridiculous. Look at the first two things it criticizes.

From the House Resolution:
Whereas the resolution pre-judged the outcome of its investigation, by
one-sidedly mandating the `fact-finding mission' to `investigate all
violations of international human rights law and International
Humanitarian Law by . . . Israel, against the Palestinian people . . .
particularly in the occupied Gaza Strip, due to the current
aggression';

Actual mandate from the Report:
"to investigate all violations of
international human rights law and international humanitarian law that might have been
committed at any time in the context of the military operations that were conducted in Gaza
during the period from 27 December 2008 and 18 January 2009, whether before, during or
after."

So they're criticizing the report for having a mandate it doesn't have.

Another Gem:
Whereas the mandate of the `fact-finding mission' makes no mention of the relentless rocket and mortar attacks, which numbered in the thousands and spanned a period of eight years, by Hamas and other violent militant groups in Gaza against civilian targets in Israel, that necessitated Israel's defensive measures;

Which is an interesting claim considering that there is a 25 page long chapter titled:
XXIV. THE IMPACT ON CIVILIANS OF ROCKET AND MORTAR ATTACKS BY
PALESTINIAN ARMED GROUPS ON SOUTHERN ISRAEL

I know this is difficult information to ascertain since it's in the farking table of contents, but seriously what bullshiat.

YoMammaObama: Cagey B: scary brown people country.

Why are liberals so hung up on skin color?

I believe it's called "projection".

Koichi: B,but a vote for Obama was a vote for the death of Israel! Joe the Plumber told me!

Actually he said it was a vote for the death TO Israel.


/go ahead, look up the video clip yourself

So they're criticizing the report for having a mandate it doesn't have.

the ellipses are cute, too; I wonder what sentences were dropped to munge that misstatement into existence.

Oddly enough, that second part may be technically true and still be misleading. If the mandate itself does not specifically refer to rocket attacks launched from Gaza, then the bill writers can claim it's accurate even though the actual report has a sizable section on those rocket attacks. They're hoping that no one will have the nerve to question the text of the bill. Classy folks, just the kind of legislators you want representing your interests... unless you're a constituent.

/summon tatsuma?

YoMammaObama: Why are liberals so hung up on skin color?

Democrats get hung up on skin color.
Republicans hang people up for their skin color.

YoMammaObama: vabeard: YoMammaObama: Cagey B: scary brown people country.

Why are liberals so hung up on skin color?

I believe it's called "projection".

I thought it was just a "get out the vote" technique, but your answer has plenty of merit.

You don't like it when people show up to vote?

That's weird.

bogey: Cagey B: *lies in wait for the people who DRTFA*

I RTFA and the headline is a direct quote from TFA. I'm confused, what is it you're waiting for?

I think Cagey B suspects (and rightly so) that many on the right will criticize Hillary Clinton for this, not realizing that what she is doing is encouraging or allowing Israel to continue their policy of building Jewish settlements into Palestian lands that the international community views as violations of law and human rights.

She has moderated her position towards supporting Israel and against the Muslims of Palestine, which is exactly what the Republican Party in the United States would like to happen. Now she will be criticized by those who DRTFA.

In reality she should be denounced by the other side and not standing up to Israel.

vernonFL: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah and the USA all commit war crimes without consequences.

And so the US should focus first on eliminating the crimes it is responsilbe for; including the tacit support of Isreal's crimes.

Then, when we remove this plank from our own eye, we may see clearly enough to help other remove the speck from their eyes.

This shiat gets greenlit? Maybe there are some good points in that article, but its hard to read through it without discrediting it immediately because its easy to tell someone has a seriously one sided agenda.

meat0918: And I was wrong. Israel vs Hamas Palestine vs Fatah Palestine. Three states will enter, only one will emerge victorious.

So which one has the whistle and which one is the retarded hulk?

siva: This shiat gets greenlit? Maybe there are some good points in that article, but its hard to read through it without discrediting it immediately because its easy to tell someone has a seriously one sided agenda.

Yeah, not supporting Israel is one sided!

The U.S. must needs to make Israel the 51st state so they can collect taxes and get some kind of benefit out of their mid-East foreign policy.

1derful: The U.S. must needs to make Israel the 51st state so they can collect taxes and get some kind of benefit out of their mid-East foreign policy.

Not a bad idea. Democrats could get Puerto Rico to balance out the right wing crazy that'd come with it.

He_Hate_Me: "why the Jordanians didn't allow them equality, democracy, and individual rights."

The Jordanians have given the Palestinians living in Jordan full Jordanian citizenship. I'd like to see Israel do that.

Not anymore actually, Link

siva: This shiat gets greenlit? Maybe there are some good points in that article, but its hard to read through it without discrediting it immediately because its easy to tell someone has a seriously one sided agenda.

So when an article speaks critically of how an administration backs down from its public position because of special interest lobbyists that is "a seriously one sided agenda".

Err... OK. [Insert confused dog pic]

Investigative journalism is supposed to have a one sided agenda: Speaking truth to power. Now you may dispute the degree of truth or power, but please tell us all what this incideous one sided agenda supposedly is.

pandabear: TFA: eat away at the land on which they hope to establish a state of their own

I wonder why the Palestinians didn't hope to establish a state on the West Bank when it was part of Jordan, or why the Jordanians didn't allow them equality, democracy, and individual rights.

I suppose that excuses any bad behaviour on Israel's part. Thanks for clearing that up.

The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

coyo: pandabear: TFA: eat away at the land on which they hope to establish a state of their own

I wonder why the Palestinians didn't hope to establish a state on the West Bank when it was part of Jordan, or why the Jordanians didn't allow them equality, democracy, and individual rights.

I suppose that excuses any bad behaviour on Israel's part. Thanks for clearing that up.

It shows the Palestinians got themselves into this mess. They need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get out.

Get out of Palestine, I mean.

Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Did you see who wrote the article? Took me a second to figure out why he linked the Walt/Mesrsheimer book when he said 'we wrote that', then saw that TFA was written by Walt himself.

Palestinians live in perpetual victimhood. When Israel was created, their land was taken. In 1967, more of their land was taken. In 1973, even more. No effort was made to repatriate Palestinians to Jordanian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian or even Saudi territory. Where they are now politically, socially and economically is a direct result of having had no proxy in the international community - their leaders thought they'd have a useful bargaining chip in a displaced people, Israel figured the situation would be resolved shortly and the surrounding countries didn't care enough to get involved.

Israelis live in perpetual disconcert. They feel beset by all sides at all times, don't see much help in those who instinctively side with the oppressed, and cannot believe people would legitimize suicide bombings. They want to be regarded just like any other country - free to expand, free to badger their neighbors, free to govern as they please - but cannot be so seen because of the Palestinian problem. Israeli liberals want a fair and just two-state solution, conservatives and other hard-liners want Palestinians out.

Americans and much of the rest of the world increasingly see Israel as a client state of the US. Fair or not, the influence of AIPAC (which disburses no money directly to American politicians, only matches donors with campaigns) is seen as untoward and unfair (when, in actuality, AARP, the NRA, the Moral Majority/Religious Right, AFL-CIO/SEIU and many others have more of a lobbying presence), and AIPAC is blamed for American policy blunders. AIPAC is firmly on the right of Israeli politics, and the American and Israeli lefts are tired of a one-sided lobbying group which walks on only one side of the road.

None of these groups shoulders the majority of the blame for the current mess. Israelis have been much too hard on Palestinians at large (to the detriment of relations with the Palestinian moderates and dismay of centrists and liberals everywhere); Palestinians have been much too hard-line (recognizing Israel's "right to exist" is not something which should need bargaining away) with their demands, and the rest of the world has projected the issues-du-jour on the conflict (it's part of the GWOT!! it's part of the fight against Commies!! it's part of the American expansion into the MidEast!!!).

It's a farked up situation. Diplomatic pressures aren't going to fix it - one day, a charismatic enough Palestinian leader (and yes, I do feel like it'll be from that side) will amass enough support to actually force a change in the leadership's philosophy AND command enough respect on the Israeli/international fronts to make headway.

// don't really care who ends up owning what land, so long as the citizenry can freely move about: Muslims can visit their holy sites and so can Jews

PascalsGhost: Danielsan: Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Did you see who wrote the article? Took me a second to figure out why he linked the Walt/Mesrsheimer book when he said 'we wrote that', then saw that TFA was written by Walt himself.

Walt backs all his stuff with sources and facts, just as he does here. I wonder what you find wrong with his work?

Never said I did, nothing factually wrong in the article. But all books and articles 'back their stuff', kind of a moot point.

PascalsGhost: Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Didn't read the report huh? Why bother when you can just decide its anti-semetic.

When people say "the Israeli lobby", it's a codeword for Jews.

Always has been, always will be.

And I don't give a crap about anything from the UN regarding Israel. The whole place is a club for Islamic dictators and anti-Israeli bigots

The UN has ZERO credibility talking about human rights abuses.

Hell, the report even talks about White Phosphorous, which is NOT illegal to use in a warzone.

And the UNRWA compound in Gaza city? The Palestinians like to attack from such locations for the purpose of drawing Israeli return fire. Then they can use the whole thing as a propaganda.

Swampthing in Korea: PascalsGhost: Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Didn't read the report huh? Why bother when you can just decide its anti-semetic.

When people say "the Israeli lobby", it's a codeword for Jews.

Always has been, always will be.

And I don't give a crap about anything from the UN regarding Israel. The whole place is a club for Islamic dictators and anti-Israeli bigots

The UN has ZERO credibility talking about human rights abuses.

Hell, the report even talks about White Phosphorous, which is NOT illegal to use in a warzone.

And the UNRWA compound in Gaza city? The Palestinians like to attack from such locations for the purpose of drawing Israeli return fire. Then they can use the whole thing as a propaganda.

Ahem...

AIPAC isn't the only Jewish lobby (new window)

The argument that it is, and consequently any criticism of pro-aggression policy is anti-Semitic, is both outdated and sad. Buying into that line of bull is a bit prejudiced, wouldn't you say?

PascalsGhost: Swampthing in Korea: PascalsGhost: Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Didn't read the report huh? Why bother when you can just decide its anti-semetic.

When people say "the Israeli lobby", it's a codeword for Jews.

Always has been, always will be.

Wow, what an idiot. AIPAC and J street all happily call themselves the Israeli Lobby. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE YOU DOLT. LOL


And I don't give a crap about anything from the UN regarding Israel. The whole place is a club for Islamic dictators and anti-Israeli bigots

Did read the report huh?

The UN has ZERO credibility talking about human rights abuses.

Nope. Didn't read a page of it.


Hell, the report even talks about White Phosphorous, which is NOT illegal to use in a warzone.

Not illegal, but immoral. Every country in the free world accepts this and only Israel, the US, Russia, and the UK have used it for decades.


And the UNRWA compound in Gaza city? The Palestinians like to attack from such locations for the purpose of drawing Israeli return fire. Then they can use the whole thing as a propaganda.

LOL, you don't even see the irony of believing it is all anti_jews propganada when you are so programmed you won't even read the report. Classic sheep mind.

Immoral?

White Phosphorous makes an excellent cover under which soldiers can safely move.

I guess saving the lives of one's soldiers is pretty evil, huh?

I have read a bit of the report.

A great deal of it BS.

AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: Swampthing in Korea: PascalsGhost: Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Didn't read the report huh? Why bother when you can just decide its anti-semetic.

When people say "the Israeli lobby", it's a codeword for Jews.

Always has been, always will be.

And I don't give a crap about anything from the UN regarding Israel. The whole place is a club for Islamic dictators and anti-Israeli bigots

The UN has ZERO credibility talking about human rights abuses.

Hell, the report even talks about White Phosphorous, which is NOT illegal to use in a warzone.

And the UNRWA compound in Gaza city? The Palestinians like to attack from such locations for the purpose of drawing Israeli return fire. Then they can use the whole thing as a propaganda.

Ahem...

AIPAC isn't the only Jewish lobby (new window)

The argument that it is, and consequently any criticism of pro-aggression policy is anti-Semitic, is both outdated and sad. Buying into that line of bull is a bit prejudiced, wouldn't you say?

Not when the vast majority of the criticism targets only Israel.

Swampthing in Korea: AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: Swampthing in Korea: PascalsGhost: Swampthing in Korea: The article begins by stating AIPAC has a hold of congress.

Dammit. It's been a thousand years. Why must I still read shiat blaming stuff on the Jews?

Didn't read the report huh? Why bother when you can just decide its anti-semetic.

When people say "the Israeli lobby", it's a codeword for Jews.

Always has been, always will be.

And I don't give a crap about anything from the UN regarding Israel. The whole place is a club for Islamic dictators and anti-Israeli bigots

The UN has ZERO credibility talking about human rights abuses.

Hell, the report even talks about White Phosphorous, which is NOT illegal to use in a warzone.

And the UNRWA compound in Gaza city? The Palestinians like to attack from such locations for the purpose of drawing Israeli return fire. Then they can use the whole thing as a propaganda.

Ahem...

AIPAC isn't the only Jewish lobby (new window)

The argument that it is, and consequently any criticism of pro-aggression policy is anti-Semitic, is both outdated and sad. Buying into that line of bull is a bit prejudiced, wouldn't you say?

Not when the vast majority of the criticism targets only Israel.

Foaming at the mouth for either side is ridiculous. Its going to take efforts by the people of Israel and Palestine to do the majority of the work towards creating a Palestinian state. Implicating the United States as responsible for the mess in Israel is incorrect. Trying to pinpoint any one source of blame would be a vast oversimplification.