dj_bigbird: Taxes should be paid in one lump sum.

What % of the population do you suppose is sufficiently financially responsible to save up and deliver their lump sum?

Holeeeeee shiat!

I'm a tax-and-spend liberal as much as the next leftie, but this is pretty outrageous. If I lived in California, I'd be increasing my deductions to the max so the state got nothing out of my paychecks until April taxes.

10% EXTRA TAX WITHHOLDINGS?!?!? Thank god I'm self employed, I'm not paying this shiat. I have no obligation to "loan" the State anything.

Also, a tax and a loan are two very diff't things and I do not see the legality of any government whether it's city state or federal being able to force it's citizens to loan them anything. On the face of this it seems illegal, or at least quite open to strong legal challenges in court. You have a borrower that wants you to loan them something, yet they alone specify the terms of this loan to their sole advantage. This is wrong on every level.

And it makes me glad I ended my experiment on being a normal wage earner like everyone else and went back to being self employed. Earlier this year I tried a full-time W2 position thinking that $185,000 a year would be sufficient to live on...

I left after 4 months to return to self employmnt because, with Federal Tax withholdings of 33% followed by California State Income Tax withholdings of 9.3% plus medicaid, FICA workers comp insurance, brathing-the-air tax, having a pulse tax and whateverother tax they had came out to $1,500 being stripped out of my weekly gross income of $3,400, which is roughly 44%. To make myself feel better, I just assumed I was paying 4 low level gov't workers their monthly income each month. And the worst part was, being W2, my ability to file for write-offs against expenses such as a car, equipment and what not was practically nil. As a self employed person, I had learned I can keep my taxes down to around the 20-30% of my gross if I'm just a good consumer. So the loss of write-offs was a real big deal.

Now tack on an extra 10% for this "loan" and you're looking at approx 54% in income tax.
Then go and buy something, anything at any local store. In SF, you're hit with about 9.5% sales tax for every purchase you make. Ohh, and if you eat out in SF, add on another dollar for the city's health care tax.

By some people's estimations, as much as 70% of an American's wage goes to city, state and federal taxes. And that's on par with many evil Socialist regimes like Canada, Britain and gasp France. And do we get Nationalized health care for that? No. We get a war machine that's bigger than the rest of the combined world's and more debt than the debt in just about every single other country in the world combined ... interesting correlation that.

Militant Moderate: dj_bigbird: Taxes should be paid in one lump sum.

What % of the population do you suppose is sufficiently financially responsible to save up and deliver their lump sum?

That's the whole point of eliminating withholding. It forces people to see what they're really paying in taxes. When the bill comes due, they'll freak and might hopefully stop asking for more entitlements.

wow, next California will be pawning its wedding ring and DVD player

ahhh the wonders of state coercion. Is there anything it can't do?
No one wants to help CA float a bond issue, ya know, borrowing money the right way. Instead it decides it'd be cool to force money out of the taxpayers pockets with a wink, a nod, a promise to repay and a guarantee that things will get better.fark.

libbynomore2: California, it's where the Federal Government is headed.

Be afraid, by VERY afraid.

I wouldn't go that far quite yet. However, if it does happen, Fark will be filled with jackholes yelling about people to stop being greedy, help pay back society for all the good it has given you, "F*ck you, got mine" and a handful of other asinine slogans.

GAT_00: Weaver95: I wouldn't go quite that far, but there are days when I wonder if Atlas Shrugged might have gotten a few things right.



It always baffles me how someone as smart as you can believe in such an idiotic philosophy as Libertarianism and trumpet someone as stupid and narrow-minded as Ayn Rand.

Just keep repeating the smears. Maybe someday, you'll actually even have something remotely approaching a clue what she was talking about. But in the meantime:

"OMG DOLLARZ IS BEANCOUNTER FOR VITREU!!!!!"

But....b...b...but gay's can't marry!

Militant Moderate: dj_bigbird: Taxes should be paid in one lump sum.

What % of the population do you suppose is sufficiently financially responsible to save up and deliver their lump sum?

Well, there's that. But it might wake a lot of working-class plebs up, seeing how much of their income goes to support government....and feeling the pain of writing a check for it.

GAT_00: It always baffles me how someone as smart as you can believe in such an idiotic philosophy as Libertarianism and trumpet someone as stupid and narrow-minded as Ayn Rand.

freedom sucks. You're right.

/you sound unskilled

skullkrusher: freedom sucks. You're right.

/you sound unskilled

You sound homeschooled.

There is no law requiring you to withhold earnings. That is a convenience setup between you and your employer, which you can cancel at any point in time.

Britney Spear's Speculum: skullkrusher: freedom sucks. You're right.

/you sound unskilled

You sound homeschooled.

why? Does my lack of misspellings and bad grammar betray my non-public school education?

skullkrusher: freedom sucks. You're right.

money is not freedom

brainiac-dumdum: skullkrusher: freedom sucks. You're right.

money is not freedom

the sky is blue.

what's the punta, BDD?

skullkrusher: why? Does my lack of misspellings and bad grammar betray my non-public school education?

your lack of understanding that freedom is best protected by a good government does. Bill of Rights, Civil Rights etc.

/not saying our current gov is good

skullkrusher: why? Does my lack of misspellings and bad grammar betray my non-public school education?

no, your inability to consider issues from a PoV other than your own betrays your non-public school education.

12349876: your lack of understanding that freedom is best protected by a good government does. Bill of Rights, Civil Rights etc.

/not saying our current gov is good

you do understand that Libertarianism and a United States governed by the Constitution are not necessarily opposed ideas?

brainiac-dumdum: skullkrusher: why? Does my lack of misspellings and bad grammar betray my non-public school education?

no, your inability to consider issues from a PoV other than your own betrays your non-public school education.

that's interesting. What issue am I not considering with an open mind? Do you think my 16 years of Catholic education and prep school led me to be a supporter of gay marriage and legal abortion?
See, open mindedness does not mean "agreeing with brainiac-dumdum". I think you might be a little confused on that.

In case you haven't noticed, they're the ranchers and we're the cattle.

"The state's suddenly slapping people upside the head," said Mack Reed, 50, of Silver Lake. "It's appalling how brash that is."

Brittney McKaig, 23, of Santa Ana said she expects the additional withholding to affect her holiday spending.

HA HA!

I betcha Mack Reed and Brittney McKaig both vote for politicians promising to either increase state-funded services or lower taxes, and likely both. You made your bed, Californians!

You want great schools and roads? Don't de-fund the government!
You want lower taxes? Don't ask for gold-plated government services!

Can't have both...

skullkrusher: brainiac-dumdum: skullkrusher: freedom sucks. You're right.

money is not freedom

the sky is blue.

what's the punta, BDD?

Ayn Rand had great difficulty determining where her fist ends and the nose of the collective labor force begins. Rand, in her reactionary revulsion, the result of her views being formed in the Soviet Union, wants to replace the gov't's exploitive fist w/ the exploitive fist of business leaders. Meaning (IMO), she thinks those who are allowed to become wealthy by virtue of the stability found in democratic nations, have no obligation to the mechanism that secures stability, a happy and productive labor force and the gov't, in America.

Rand was born the same year (or close to, I can't remember) the Russian Revolution began in earnest. She was in her teens when the October Revolution changed her nation forever. She saw what can happen when the needs of the labor force are taken too much into account and her reaction was to swing her inner ideological pendulum in the other direction, an equal and opposite reaction just as dangerous as that which caused the effect (in her).

When she came to America, our nation had just under gone a dramatic period of trust busting undertaken by Roosevelt and Taft, and many in America thought the gov't had neutered the Titans of Industry which made America great.

Next came the Depression and then the New Deal. Blah, blah, blah. Rand worried the New Deal was the start of another Revolution that would turn her world upside down again, and she revolted in one of the best ways possible, through literature.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Rand greatly, but more so for her Feminism, sophisticated (for the time) and positive views of sexuality and her atheism. I think her extreme views are understandable when considered in the context of the (now) historical events she witnessed, but, considering the obvious psychological scars those events created, we would be foolish to consider her works a basis for rational governance.

/I hope this makes sense, it was pecked out in a hurry. I'm doing 39957656567 things at once, but will try to be somewhat timely in my replies.

damn, this is long, sorry

skullkrusher: See, open mindedness does not mean "agreeing with brainiac-dumdum". I think you might be a little confused on that.

I was mostly kidding. I should of used a ;)

Weaver95: Here's what a public school education might look like.

FTA:

Contra Costa County Deputy District Attorney Dara Cashman said there was insufficient evidence to file charges

Contra Costa County? Isn't this the same place they found that guy's 18 year old sex slave living in a tent? What a shiathole!

Remind me again why all my friends moved out to CA and I stayed on the east coast... It seems so lovely there...

brainiac-dumdum: skullkrusher: See, open mindedness does not mean "agreeing with brainiac-dumdum". I think you might be a little confused on that.

I was mostly kidding. I should of used a ;)

yes, you should have. It is the appropriate internet protocol.

skullkrusher: brainiac-dumdum: skullkrusher: See, open mindedness does not mean "agreeing with brainiac-dumdum". I think you might be a little confused on that.

I was mostly kidding. I should of used a ;)

yes, you should have. It is the appropriate internet protocol.

I'm doing a lot of schnit here, including carving pumpkins and baking.

Simple change your withholdings.

Done and done.

brainiac-dumdum: damn, this is long, sorry

nah, not too long. A fair critique of AR. You did leave out her insane megalomania, however.
A lot of libs (the good kind) talk about Rand because a lot of what she said does jibe well with parts of the philosophy. However, many of us also reject the Objectivist view that pursuit of your own happiness is the greatest moral good. "AS" was an eye opening book for me. No, I don't sleep with one under my mattress, I have only read it once and that was in highschool. She is a pretty bad writer, imo, and I just find enjoy reading her. It is probably safe to say that all Randians are libertarians but not all libertarians are Randians.

skullkrusher: I just find don't enjoy reading her.

/ftfm. strange mistake

brainiac-dumdum: I'm doing a lot of schnit here, including carving pumpkins and baking.

hehe yer a good mom. Used to love coming home from school on Halloween and carving J-O-Ls with my mom before going trick or treating.

skullkrusher: I have only read it once

me too, I tried to make it trough a second time, but couldn't do it because

skullkrusher: I just don't enjoy reading her

skullkrusher: carving J-O-Ls with my mom

My son is out w/ my husband picking up last minute costume things. We carved pumpkins last week as a family, but in Seattle the wet, gray weather arrives before the cool/cold weather, and pumpkins rot quickly.