That was pretty damn good.

\First rule of motorcycling: Wear your damn helmet
\\Second rule of motorcycling: All cagers are trying to kill you

Complex issue, but I think a lot of it is that people try to drive automobiles with as little attnetion as possible. Just look at a modern car - cupholders and space for eating while you drive, a mirror in every sun visor so you can apply makeup, cellular phone integration into the car stereo for talking AND music , these new ones coming out with cruise control that speeds you up and slows you down with radar sensors and shiat so you can just turn on cruise control and forget about it, heck some cars can even park themselves now - these features don't exactly say " driving is the most important thing going on here"

Now how do you expect those poor cagers to be diligently looking for people outside their car when they are so busy eating, listening to some music while chatting on their phone and applying make-up? It's just unreasonable to expect them to, you know, pay attention to the farking road with their multi-ton death machines.

Bike season is over (at least for me) here, so I have a few months of simply worrying that somebody in a truck/SUV is going to run over my reasonably-sized car, instead.

I know it would mean giving up my motorcycle, but honestly - isn't about time we started seriously considering taking vehicle control away from humans? We have a fairly solid, decades long history confirming the sad truth that people can't handle the task of day to day transportation. All over the first world, if you ask the question "why did this young man/woman die prematurely?", the safe money says your answer is "because they wanted to get from point A to point B".

And no matter how clever our advertisements, admonishments, training, or coercing seem to be, people continue to make the same mistakes they have for years. They don't know when to stop driving (sick, tired, distracted, drunk). They can't maintain their focus while driving. They can't judge the road conditions correctly. They simply panic.

Motorcyclists aren't even above it. Analysis (I think it was from the Hurt report, unsure) indicates that in many accidents motorcyclists make no effort to swerve or brake in the face of an oncoming collision. They fatalistically think "There it is, the car that kills me!" (or maybe they can't even think that much, trapped in a blind terror) and just drive right on in.

Just ranting on my part. Despite the money we'd save (imagine what would happen to your insurance), lives we'd save (stats speak for themselves) and time we'd save (has anyone every properly studied what the cost of road congestion through accidents is?), nobody will ever go for the idea. We love car culture - the notions of freedom and control associated with having your own vehicle, and being able to go anywhere at any time. That romantic ideal, coupled with our inability to look at an accident on the road and say "that could be me", make it a no go.

What I got from the video is that people who ride motorcycles like to expose themselves to children on school buses. Sick perverts should be ashamed of themselves!

The Icelander: That was pretty damn good.

\First rule of motorcycling: Wear your damn helmet
\\Second rule of motorcycling: All cagers are trying to kill you

this

The ad lies!
There is no sunny weather in the UK!

Don Piano: The ad lies!
There is no sunny weather in the UK!

It was actually New South Wales in Australia, you know, Sydney.

Marcus Aurelius: That's a good way to get the ultimate case of road rash.

This

/also rides

A few weeks ago I watched a guy on a bike pull up right behind a large truck with a quad in the back, then almost get backed over when the truck tried to make space in front of him (what we call rush hour, and some guy needed to cross traffic to get to Tim Horton's). I would say that one wasn't the truck driver's fault.

However, I agree that most drivers suck, and I don't know if I would be brave enough to put myself on a bike. I have a hard enough time driving a small car and being scared of F350s.

Did that last guy stick his camera...you know what, nevermind.

brigid_fitch: Now we just sit and wait for the haters to complain that it's our own fault

It is, but not in the way you'd think...

Whenever a motorcyclist/bicyclist/pedestrian gets hit by a car on the road, I always place at least some of blame on the victim, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of stupid people out there driving cars.

When I'm on foot or bicycle, I never EVER enter an intersection without making sure everyone on the cross-street is properly stopped, because I know that all it takes is one guy to miss a red light and BOOM, I'm dead. Same thing goes for when I'm driving - we've all seen those dramatic videos on YouTube where a light turns green, people start to go, and one guy in the cross-street doesn't see the red light and t-bones one of the green-lighters. If the green-lighters were always watching for people blowing red-lights, the accident wouldn't happen.

When I'm driving a car or bicycle in traffic, I never hang out in someone's blind spot, and am always waiting/ready for the next jerk to cut me off. I'm always ready to get hit, and dontcha know, I don't get hit even though they try. For me, the primary rule of driving any vehicle is "Some other jackass is going to hit you unless you see it coming and get out of the way".

Like my mom used to say, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong when you're dead.

woogs: isn't about time we started seriously considering taking vehicle control away from humans?

Sign me up. As long as I still have my own car I don't mind at all typing in the destination and leaving the rest to the car. The cars could communicate with each other and do a hell of a lot better job avoiding gridlock than we could. Replace our windshields and windows with lcd screens too.

The guys who taught me to ride told me "No one else on the road sees you, and the ones who do are actively trying to kill you." It's a good philosophy, and has kept me safe so far. I know that I have a small silhouette on the bike, and I'm hard to see, so I try to compensate by being more aware. I honestly believe that riding a motorcycle has made me a better driver in my car too.

/signing up for an intermediate bike skills class in January.
//whee!

jims4x4toy: Damn. I wish they would have blurred out the moobs too.

Heh. Someone caught you pitching a tent? Sucks for you.

"What do we have to do to be noticed?"

How about not speeding along, hitting 90 in a 30, passing in a no passing zone, and running into me head-on?

Sorry, but motorcycle drivers who respect the road and the danger cars represent will last a helluva lot longer than those who feel it's the duty of the car driver to see them, instead.

"What do we have to do to be noticed?"

Take your toy off the streets and get a real vehicle, I think that would help.

The real question is to Aussie women have big 70's porno muffs or do they keep it trimmed? Hard to tell through the pixels.

This pisses me off. You assholes on your motorcycles SHOULDNT be everywhere, you should be in traffic lanes just like the rest of us!

I would have a lot more sympathy for bikers if the the vast majority of daily riders weren't douches who drive waaaaay faster than the pace of traffic and have no problem darting in and out of lanes.

Weekend Harley drivers, on the other hand, seem to have a modicum of sanity, but tards on crotch rockets are constantly upping their outstanding balance from karma and invariably will blame "cagers" for their own folly. At least they leave most grisly corpses.

What do we have to do for bikers to notice how soft their bodies are compared to the bodies of vehicles.

I sympathize with the people and the families of those who lost their lives/limbs/happiness from motorcycle accidents. However, you knew bad drivers could kill you before you jumped on your bike. You SHOULD also know that cute bumper stickers and funny commercials aren't going to change those bad drivers into good ones.

It kinda amazes me that people can drive at all. I mean, we are basically monkeys that never grow up, so never stop learning at a child-like pace. What in our evolutionary makeup prepared us for flying down the highway at a gazillion miles per hour while encased in a ton of steel, dodging other insane monkeys doing the same thing? By all rights we should get combat pay for our daily commutes.

PadreScout: Now how do you expect those poor cagers to be diligently looking for people outside their car when they are so busy eating, listening to some music while chatting on their phone and applying make-up? It's just unreasonable to expect them to, you know, pay attention to the farking road with their multi-ton death machines.

I know! And don't you just hate it when one of them wearing nothing but sandals and a pear of jeans goes whipping around you on the right shoulder at ~120, then immediately weaves into the far left lane to avoid an on-ramp while passing the car 7 feet in front of you? Oh wait...

/Assholes on 4 wheels, assholes on 2 wheels; choice of vehicle is not the common theme here.

leftymcrighty: brigid_fitch: Now we just sit and wait for the haters to complain that it's our own fault

It is, but not in the way you'd think...

Whenever a motorcyclist/bicyclist/pedestrian gets hit by a car on the road, I always place at least some of blame on the victim, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of stupid people out there driving cars.

Exactly, and when a woman gets raped, its partly her fault, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of sick people who get there kicks from that.

UCM: What do we have to do for bikers to notice how soft their bodies are compared to the bodies of vehicles.

I sympathize with the people and the families of those who lost their lives/limbs/happiness from motorcycle accidents. However, you knew bad drivers could kill you before you jumped on your bike. You SHOULD also know that cute bumper stickers and funny commercials aren't going to change those bad drivers into good ones.

Actually this isnt true, the point of awareness campaigns is just that. To raise awareness. To make people think about something they havent given alot of thought to before. And honestly, if it causes one person to not die for the One million dollars spent on the campaign. The thats a million well spent.

Hack Patooey: This pisses me off. You assholes on your motorcycles SHOULDNT be everywhere, you should be in traffic lanes just like the rest of us!

Ok you amused me :) I needed that.

First off, I am both a cager and a bike rider.
2nd. Cagers drive like idiots
3rd. Bike riders are even more stupid.

I give the third part because after riding around on my bike for awhile I have realised that the 2nd point is true, so I know the cagers don't see me and don't seem to care so every time I get on my bike I take my life into my own hards. I also give the third point because it seems like bikers are idiots too, they don't drive any better than the cagers do, they are just in much more risk. I see bike riders tailgate, speed, fail to maintain a lane, cut in an out of traffic, fail to signal and generally drive like idiots more often than I see them follow the rules of the road. There are all things that cagers do as well, but they are not expossed.

So it seems that if you ride a bike your an idiot because of how bad at driving the cagers are, and your likely no better than them.

I don't get the visibility complaints. Short of driving in my blind spot I'm going to see you on a bike, car, or flying saucer [at low altitudes].

People who "accidentally" smush bikes also run into cars I bet.

SwingDancer: Exactly, and when a woman gets raped, its partly her fault, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of sick people who get there kicks from that.

That would only be analogous if a car driver intentionally hit a motorcyclist. Nobody gets accidentally raped.

The problem with these ads is that they presuppose that motorcyclists are objectively better at handling their vehicle of choice than drivers are. That's not the case.

Bad operators are pretty evenly distributed, so you're going to have to let that attitude go. You are the person with the largest stake in your own well being.

SwingDancer:
Exactly, and when a woman gets raped, its partly her fault, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of sick people who get there kicks from that.

If the woman went into a jail filled with rapist wearing almost nothing, knowing that the prisoners are mostly unwatched. Yeah I would blame the woman a little bit.

When you get on a bike a drive on the street knowing how hard you are to see and that drives are stupid and uncaring you are basically doing the same thing. At some point people need to think for themselves. Your personal safety is your job and putting yourself in dangerous situations is not the fault of the danger.

China White Tea: SwingDancer: Exactly, and when a woman gets raped, its partly her fault, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of sick people who get there kicks from that.

That would only be analogous if a car driver intentionally hit a motorcyclist. Nobody gets accidentally raped.

The problem with these ads is that they presuppose that motorcyclists are objectively better at handling their vehicle of choice than drivers are. That's not the case.



His point was it's the fault of the motorcyclist, because he should have known better. That is the same point Lawyers defending rapists used to make.

If a motorcyclist is hit, because a car driver wasn't paying attention, it is in no way the motorcyclists fault.

Bad operators are pretty evenly distributed, so you're going to have to let that attitude go. You are the person with the largest stake in your own well being.

Yes. Although I'm thinking that might not have been a response to me, since it had nothing to do with what I said. When I ride, I understand I cannot be seen, And I ride accordingly. I have noticed however that since learning to ride years ago, My Car driving skills have a new added awareness to them. I'm so used to always scanning for stuff in the road, and Other people positioning themselves to do something stupid, that I automatically take defensive actions to avoid things.

Attitude? I dont think so. He used a terrible line of logic to blame motorcyclists for people plowing into them. And I used something analogous to show it. I felt it drives the point home better then just telling him he was wrong. sometimes you must bring the mountain to Mohammad.

cenobyte40k: SwingDancer:
Exactly, and when a woman gets raped, its partly her fault, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of sick people who get there kicks from that.

If the woman went into a jail filled with rapist wearing almost nothing, knowing that the prisoners are mostly unwatched. Yeah I would blame the woman a little bit.

When you get on a bike a drive on the street knowing how hard you are to see and that drives are stupid and uncaring you are basically doing the same thing. At some point people need to think for themselves. Your personal safety is your job and putting yourself in dangerous situations is not the fault of the danger.

Yes but he was BLAMING motorcyclist for getting smushed by cars.

Also: I found a study that says 17% of women between 18-30 have been raped

cant find a study for how many motorcyclists get in fatal accidents(percentage) although i found one that said there was 5k+ deaths in 2008.

that being said, I dont think it's necessary to put the womens naked in the prisons.(although that makes some damn fine pron)

That being said, I was simply making a comparison showing how he was Blaming the vicitm of a given scenario.

cenobyte40k: SwingDancer:
Exactly, and when a woman gets raped, its partly her fault, for not realizing how vulnerable they are and for not recognizing that there are a lot of sick people who get there kicks from that.

If the woman went into a jail filled with rapist wearing almost nothing, knowing that the prisoners are mostly unwatched. Yeah I would blame the woman a little bit.

When you get on a bike a drive on the street knowing how hard you are to see and that drives are stupid and uncaring you are basically doing the same thing. At some point people need to think for themselves. Your personal safety is your job and putting yourself in dangerous situations is not the fault of the danger.

Rereading your post, and apply it to his logic, cops, firefighters, and soldiers are to blame for their own deaths. They put themselves in the situations. Also roadside repair truck drivers who get sideswiped and killed while helping people out(we have them in my city, one dies occasionally) are to blame for placing themselves somewhere dangerous.(i included the last one because it has no crime involved, yet still ends in an innocents death)


/I am not saying motorcyclists are always blameless.
//He was saying they are always to blame. Big difference.

Candygram4Mongo: So, only white people ride motorcycles in Australia?

The Abos think there's not much use for scooters in the Outback.

About once every six months a motorcyclist dies on the highway near me. It's a great highway to drive -- stunning views, twisty turny sections, lot of wide open flat bits.

"Witnesses report the experienced motorcyclist appeared to be travelling at a high rate of speed when he lost control of his motorbike....." seems to be the common factor in all these 'accidents'. I've seen it myself. Group of four or five crotch rockets goes ZOOOMING past, practically getting horizontal around the turns. A few miles later the highway is blocked for emergency vehicles scraping one of those bikers off the pavement.

People who need donated organs are thankful for young, healthy, STUPID boys on their bikes.

http://www.squamishchief.com/article/20091016/SQUAMISH0101/310169952/-1/SQUAMISH /motorcyclist-dies-in-accident

Fark didn't like that link. Dunno why.

Thonk Boke?



//Hot

His point was it's the fault of the motorcyclist, because he should have known better. That is the same point Lawyers defending rapists used to make.


Lawyers defending rapists were wrong in trying to make that point because the rapist was deliberately choosing to assault the victim. Your analogy fails because the two are not comparable. There is a fundamental difference between a deliberate assault and an accident that makes them non-analogous. So, in other words, where it is clearly improper to blame the victim of a deliberate assault, there is no such (blanket) impropriety in assigning at least partial blame to an accident victim. Whether or not the victim was at fault is entirely situational, and I would be willing to bet that a large portion of motorcycle accidents involved the rider doing something unsafe.

There is no reasonable hypothetical situation in which a rape victim can be at fault, but there are a TON of reasonable hypothetical situations in which the motorcyclist can be partially or entirely at fault for getting smushed. Perhaps the car driver wasn't paying enough attention, but perhaps the motorcyclist wasn't driving defensively enough, either.

I totally miss-called the point of that ad. Up until the end I thought it was going to be some sort of admonishment against riding without leathers.

Then there is the motorcyclist and passenger who launched from the top of the High Five in Dallas.

It;s not the drop it's the sudden stop.

When did somebody fall off the Hi5? I ride it on my bike all the time. If you time it just right, you can be going from 635 East, to 75 North right as the Sun is coming up. It's pretty awesome. Then you get to bust ass down the ramp.

LoneVVolf: I know! And don't you just hate it when one of them wearing nothing but sandals and a pear of jeans goes whipping around you on the right shoulder at ~120, then immediately weaves into the far left lane to avoid an on-ramp while passing the car 7 feet in front of you? Oh wait...

/Assholes on 4 wheels, assholes on 2 wheels; choice of vehicle is not the common theme here.

I like to think nature will sort those sportbike riders out, with or without being struck by a cager. They'll blow a turn and wipe out or hit a parked something, or crash trying to do some inane "stunt" like a stoppie.

As a motorbike rider I hate those guys, they give the rest of us bad names.