AVG told me not to clicky on this link, so I am not clickying on this link.

It's a good article, and I think I tend to agree with most of the author's conclusions.

I will say, though, that as much as he's right to caution Western businesses against over-reliance on relationships, I don't think guanxi is ever going away. Yeah, sure, hiring the deputy mayor's kid (his example) isn't going to guarantee success, but one would be foolish to underestimate the importance of having good guanxi.

The First Rule of doing business in China: Yes = Maybe

The Second Rule of doing business in China: No = Maybe

The Third Rule of doing business in China: Maybe = No.

The Fourth Rule of doing business in China: Hookers and Blow go a long way.

/Didn't RTFA

That's why I don't bang Chinese hookers.

DarkLancelot: China will steal every trade secret you have and open a competing business funded mostly by their government was left out because it's not a myth.

Big ole' hairy THIS.

I'll remember this the next time I am doing business with China

Semi-Semetic: DarkLancelot: China will steal every trade secret you have and open a competing business funded mostly by their government was left out because it's not a myth.

Big ole' hairy THIS.

Our shipments of equipment to our China test offices routinely go into customs purgatory for months at a time. The more advanced it is, the longer it stays there.

"Danger: AVG Search-Shield has detected active threats on this page and has blocked access for your protection. "

I'm not clicking it.

Huh, weird, I also got an AVG alert for this page... is the article available anywhere else?

Is that headline suppose to be euphemism for something?

Point number one is spot on.

Point number two is right but the implications are mixed. For the cheap manufacturers, they aren't scraping the barrel as far as unskilled workers go, not by a long shot. The biggest problem with the workforce in China is that there is no such thing as professionalism. I have been witness to too many entrepreneurial fark-ups courtesy of my parents (yes, gambling away my college fund is fun when you do it the first time), my friends, and my acquaintances to underestimate this factor. People job hop, have no solid work ethic, and are driven entirely by money, although they all hide it well. This is an especially big problem in the service industries - I dare you to find me a professional waiter/waitress anywhere on the mainland.

Point three is sorta wrong, sorta right. Good guanxi is a must for any venture, but it can't be everything you have. Most importantly, you have to have someone completely loyal to you who is in the know about how the local informal power structure works. Who's own top, provincial governor or party boss? Who's sucking who's dick?

/Yes, I sound Asian.
//And yes, cool story, 兄弟.

AVG needs to chill out, I feel relatively sure forbes.com isn't going to steal my identity or molest me in my sleep. That's what AVG protects me against right?

ItsNotNewsItsBarc: AVG needs to chill out, I feel relatively sure forbes.com isn't going to steal my identity or molest me in my sleep. That's what AVG protects me against right?

AVG/Chrome said the site is A-OK by them. Have been getting some weird warnings on other sites, tho.

TFA:

China's gross domestic product grew 8.9% in the third quarter. The country has become key to growth for even the largest multinationals. Paul Otellini, the chief executive officer of Intel, recently said, "Thank God for China. They buoyed, certainly, our company through the depths." Yum! Brands, the fast-food conglomerate, generates a third of its business there, and brands like the Gap and Tiffany have announced expansion plans. As China becomes ever more crucial, here are three myths about business there that you should avoid falling for:

Myth No. 1: China's economy is export-led.

One of the main reasons China has withstood the financial crisis better than analysts like Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China and a Forbes columnist, predicted is because the export sector accounts for far less of the economy than the approximately 40% figure that they believe. For a while after China entered the World Trade Organization, in 2001, exports did take up that much of the economy. The government was green-lighting practically every project proposed to it in a rush for economic development. That fast-growing capacity couldn't be used to make things to sell to Chinese consumers; they were still too poor. So companies just set up factories for export.

That situation changed dramatically even before the financial crisis. My firm, the China Market Research Group, estimates that by 2008, exports accounted for just 20% of the economy. A combination of rising costs and new economic policies caused the decline.

For one thing, the government stopped approving high-polluting, energy-intensive, low-intellectual-capital projects. Pollution was starting to cost the creaky state-run health care system too much, and the government wanted to reduce its reliance on foreign energy, so it pushed for a more service-led and less export-led economy. Scores of factories relocated to Vietnam, Sri Lanka and Mexico, where policies were more welcoming and labor and real estate costs were lower. Many factories shut, and larger manufacturers like Foxconn, the maker of Apple's iPhone, consolidated their market share.

The shift away from tiny, soot-belching factories to larger ones partially explains why energy use has not risen as fast as GDP over the last several months. The economy is less reliant on energy-inefficient factories.

The export sector is going to continue to play a diminishing role as domestic consumption increases, as I wrote in "Tap Into China's Swelling Consumer Base." We estimate that consumer-fueled domestic consumption will account for 50% of GDP within the next five years, up from 33% today.

Myth No. 2: China has a limitless supply of cheap labor.

People may think it does, but in fact recruiting and retaining talent has been difficult for companies even during the financial crisis. Many blue-collar workers are no longer willing to labor for low wages in manufacturing hubs like Guangdong, visiting their families only once a year. They've lost the fear of going hungry, so they've gotten more selective about employment. They have far more job opportunities closer to their homes, as China's $586 billion stimulus package has propped up the economy in the poorer regions that most construction and factory workers come from.

At the white-collar level, most multinationals need to rethink their human resource strategies. Job-hopping is high, with many companies losing 20% of their employees a year. The overwhelming reason younger white-collar workers leave their jobs is not because their salaries are too low but because they see no career paths there.

Nothing demoralizes young workers more than knowing that expatriates get out-sized pay packages at places where there are no mainland Chinese senior executives. They may have Taiwanese, Hong Kong and other Chinese-speaking executives, but those don't count. Mainlanders still see them as foreigners. Many mainlanders feel, why work for Google if you can get a job with its Chinese competitor Baidu and feel there's no glass ceiling above you?

Companies need to make clear to young Chinese that they're dedicated to retaining them. They need training programs, overseas rotations and clear paths for advancement. Also, companies need to have homegrown leaders who are paid as much as foreigners. Rainmakers who are Chinese should be paid better still, because they are scarce and hard to hold onto.

Myth No. 3: Connections are everything.

If a potential business partner or employee leads off a conversation by saying he is well-connected, and that's what he brings to the table, run like Usain Bolt. Too many companies hire the offspring of well-connected elders and think those connections will guarantee success.

Yes, who you know is important in China, as it is anywhere, but the economy is becoming more sophisticated. Regulations are more transparent than they were just five years ago, and in most situations you no longer need inside pull to get permits. Gone are the days when knowing the right people guaranteed riches. For most businesses, the four Ps of marketing--price, placement, product and promotion--are starting to prevail. Would you simply hire the son or daughter of a deputy mayor in a small town in California and assume certain success? I doubt it. So why would you in China?

Connections can actually damage your business if a factional fight breaks out and your well-connected partner is on the wrong side. The winning side might take business away from those closely associated with the losers. I have seen many companies depend on one big connection and then lose everything after an official lost power or was rotated to another province or ministry. You do need to cultivate relationships with government officials, but do not base your whole business on them.

As China emerges from the downturn relatively unscathed, companies need to understand it can no longer be relied on as a base for low-cost manufacturing. Workers and the government are both demanding change. The faster you can rid yourself of outdated myths about the country, the sooner you will be able generate profits there.

ItsNotNewsItsBarc: AVG needs to chill out, I feel relatively sure forbes.com isn't going to steal my identity or molest me in my sleep. That's what AVG protects me against right?

Go ahead and clicky. I, for one, will not. I've caught at least three drive-bys this year on fark. No mas.

tricycleracer: That's why I don't bang Chinese hookers.

They're better than the ones from Thailand. At least you can have reasonable assurance that the women are actually women.

oldebayer: ItsNotNewsItsBarc: AVG needs to chill out, I feel relatively sure forbes.com isn't going to steal my identity or molest me in my sleep. That's what AVG protects me against right?

Go ahead and clicky. I, for one, will not. I've caught at least three drive-bys this year on fark. No mas.

I turned off the add-on for AVG and had no issues following that. Oh well. Interesting article, Props to Clarence for posting it though. I was using FF.

Dinjiin: tricycleracer: That's why I don't bang Chinese hookers.

They're better than the ones from Thailand. At least you can have reasonable assurance that the women are actually women.

Nah, they'd charge you extra for the ones that aren't.

/Or so I heard...

3?? That's it?

The article must have been written by someone in the employ of the farking Chinese gov't.

Lets see if we can add to the list.

4) A lot of Chinese business are in the habit of substituting quality products for shiat.
5) Chinese business will go out of their way to screw you out of every cent possible. Never, ever deal with the mainland farkers.
6) If it doesn't contain 25% lead, it isn't Chinese
7) If it doesn't have a Pirated brand label it isn't Chinese
8) It doesn't leave China unless some farker officials family, and every friend they've ever had gets a cut of the pie. Worse farkers than the la cosa nostra.
9) Don't kid yourself when something bad goes wrong. Every party member knew 6 months in advance it was tainted/fake/about to blow up/illegal, but graft is the first rule so that's a good thing.
10) They're not in the habit of telling the whole truth the first time.


Sounds like I'm bitter? Yep? 4 years now of dealing with suppliers of batteries and controllers from China. God how I hate dealing with these people. You have no idea about dishonesty until you've dealt with the Chinese.


11) Last myth. Asian women are hot/sexy/like to fark. Let me clue you in on this. 1 billion + Chinese. Let's say half of them women. Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet. There might (and that's a big might) be 1000 (total) good looking people in the whole farking country. 25 of them might be women. For the most part. Dwarfs. Grey bad teeth. Near sighted. Smelly. Skinny. Androgynous little farkers. I'm saying seriously ugly here.

Cubansaltyballs: Honestly people, China  Taiwan Hong Kong Japan is not our friend. They build our high tech goodies really cheap... which is the ends and the means for cloning the stuff.

I feel as if this has been said before...

Industrial espionage and intellectual property theft is nothing new. Even if Cisco didn't have manufacturing facilities there, somebody would find a way to reverse engineer their stuff. The Soviets and East Germans did it to us back in the 1970s and 1980s.

ItsNotNewsItsBarc: Props to Clarence for posting it though.

No worries, mate.

One question I have, the term "mainland Chinese". Is this in contrast to the Taiwanese, or does it mean something else? As in are the Chinese in Shanghai seen differently from the mainland Chinese? I am probably not being all that clear here. I understand that, when Chinese move from the hinterlands to the coastal provinces, there's a huge culture shock. I am just wondering how stratified is the PRC.

indarwinsshadow: 11) Last myth. Asian women are hot/sexy/like to fark. Let me clue you in on this. 1 billion + Chinese. Let's say half of them women. Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet. There might (and that's a big might) be 1000 (total) good looking people in the whole farking country. 25 of them might be women. For the most part. Dwarfs. Grey bad teeth. Near sighted. Smelly. Skinny. Androgynous little farkers. I'm saying seriously ugly here.


I've seen plenty of hot Chinese women in the U.S. I suspect the mainlanders look funny because they breathe pure smog and eat fish that's half PCBs.

Clarence Potter: One question I have, the term "mainland Chinese". Is this in contrast to the Taiwanese, or does it mean something else? As in are the Chinese in Shanghai seen differently from the mainland Chinese? I am probably not being all that clear here. I understand that, when Chinese move from the hinterlands to the coastal provinces, there's a huge culture shock. I am just wondering how stratified is the PRC.


That's two questions. Mainland Chinese are the people who live in the PRC proper as opposed to HK residents, Taiwanese, Singaporeans, etc. Someone who knows China better will have to tell you about PRC social stratification.

Clarence Potter: One question I have, the term "mainland Chinese". Is this in contrast to the Taiwanese, or does it mean something else? As in are the Chinese in Shanghai seen differently from the mainland Chinese? I am probably not being all that clear here. I understand that, when Chinese move from the hinterlands to the coastal provinces, there's a huge culture shock. I am just wondering how stratified is the PRC.

Mainland Chinese means anyone from the PRC, opposed to overseas, Taiwanese, or from one of the SARs (HK or Macau). There is an increasing homogenization among the white-collar elites in the major cities, but the cultural differences between native coastal and native inland people are still apparent. For one, many middle and lower class people native to the cities benefited more from the economic reforms than people in the provinces. In many of the large cities, people newly arrived from the countryside are discriminated against - its worse than the 'hillbilly' stereotyping, people presume they are thieves and whores. This is especially pronounced for ethnic minorities and most so for Tibetans or Uyghurs. People in the cities also enjoy much broader civil liberties (limited though they may ultimately be); they have greater freedom of movement, more competent and less corrupt courts (I've been told by a lawyer friend), and less general interference from the state.

There is still a culture gap between Mainland city elites and HK people, and then another significant gap between those two groups and the Taiwanese. HK was significantly influenced by British political thought, especially concerning the rule of law and the role of the civil service. Taiwan is at once more Western but at the same time also heavily influenced by Japanese culture - this is visible in things such as education, media, and business ethics. In many ways, HK can be seen as more liberal than Taiwan, while the latter is more democratic.

indarwinsshadow: 11) Last myth. Asian women are hot/sexy/like to fark. Let me clue you in on this. 1 billion + Chinese. Let's say half of them women. Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet. There might (and that's a big might) be 1000 (total) good looking people in the whole farking country. 25 of them might be women. For the most part. Dwarfs. Grey bad teeth. Near sighted. Smelly. Skinny. Androgynous little farkers. I'm saying seriously ugly here.

You are right on the money, but the neverending flow of 'English teachers' (read: romantic slackers with Asian-fever) drifting into the PRC would (wrongly) suggest otherwise. Or, all the pretty wimminz are hiding from the likes of you and me.

Thank you, Seth'n'Spectrum

Seth'n'Spectrum: In many of the large cities, people newly arrived from the countryside are discriminated against - its worse than the 'hillbilly' stereotyping, people presume they are thieves and whores.

That seems like something the central authorities will need to watch.

Linux_Yes: Thirty minutes after you finish doing business with them, you want to do business with them again: Three myths about business in COMMUNIST China


a crony Capitalist American doesnt' mind Communists if he can make a buck. that's why capitalists are so fullll of shhhittt. they went on for decades and decades and killed many americans in vietnam and korea fighting the Communists...


but when there's a buck to be made, the crony capitalist american doesnt' mind communism.

Red China is growing their military 15%/year.

sleep well on that one, you greedy idiots.

my dell laptop was made in communist china.

and when the President of Red China visited the US a few years ago, he went to bill gates' house for dinner BEFORE he visited President Bush.


Crony Capitalism knows no limits of Hypocrisy.

never mind the gross human rights violations in communist china.

the republican Freedom lovers certainly don't have a problme with that, as long as they can make a buck and as long as it doesnt' affect their mice.

Guess liberal Clinton shouldn't have placed China on permanent Most Favored Trade Status then.

DarkLancelot: China will steal every trade secret you have and open a competing business funded mostly by their government was left out because it's not a myth.

+5 millionty. Do not do IP related business with anyone in China, academics included, unless you have patent rights locked up everywhere you intend to do business. NDAs and contracts are a joke.

indarwinsshadow: Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet.

I think you're an asshole and it's probably obvious to everyone you come in contact with, so they keep the decent looking women far, far away from you.

Either that or you're only visiting rural shiatholes which are murder on everyone who lives there.

Seth'n'Spectrum: 兄弟.

我不是你的兄弟帕勒

/see if anyone gets this

We do not allow Chinese workers in our ship yard here in Korea. Even if the buyer insists, we say no. A few years ago Korean immigration caught 2 Chinese workers with thumb drives containing about 40,000 pages of design documents from Hyundai, Samsung and Daewoo shipyards.
No tolerance policy now.

Seth'n'Spectrum: indarwinsshadow: 11) Last myth. Asian women are hot/sexy/like to fark. Let me clue you in on this. 1 billion + Chinese. Let's say half of them women. Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet. There might (and that's a big might) be 1000 (total) good looking people in the whole farking country. 25 of them might be women. For the most part. Dwarfs. Grey bad teeth. Near sighted. Smelly. Skinny. Androgynous little farkers. I'm saying seriously ugly here.

You are right on the money, but the neverending flow of 'English teachers' (read: romantic slackers with Asian-fever) drifting into the PRC would (wrongly) suggest otherwise. Or, all the pretty wimminz are hiding from the likes of you and me.

Fark is so blessed to have such pretty boys such as yourselves. Not even a country of 1.5 billion can touch you two.

indarwinsshadow Sounds like I'm bitter? Yep? 4 years now of dealing with suppliers of batteries and controllers from China. God how I hate dealing with these people. You have no idea about dishonesty until you've dealt with the Chinese.

You'll get over it.

/lives in China
//getting a real kick out of some of these replies

AuralArgument: Seth'n'Spectrum: 兄弟.

我不是你的兄弟帕勒

/see if anyone gets this

You filthy, filthy person.

Did not RTFA BUT; it reminded me of the half Japanese half black guy that gets a compulsion every Dec 7th to bomb Pearl Bailey

That article reads more a like a press release for how great it is to do business with China.

Are there any business news articles out there that aren't thinly veiled press releases from the companies themselves or not government propaganda?

/Goebbels would be proud.

KobaSauce: Seth'n'Spectrum: indarwinsshadow: 11) Last myth. Asian women are hot/sexy/like to fark. Let me clue you in on this. 1 billion + Chinese. Let's say half of them women. Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet. There might (and that's a big might) be 1000 (total) good looking people in the whole farking country. 25 of them might be women. For the most part. Dwarfs. Grey bad teeth. Near sighted. Smelly. Skinny. Androgynous little farkers. I'm saying seriously ugly here.

You are right on the money, but the neverending flow of 'English teachers' (read: romantic slackers with Asian-fever) drifting into the PRC would (wrongly) suggest otherwise. Or, all the pretty wimminz are hiding from the likes of you and me.

Fark is so blessed to have such pretty boys such as yourselves. Not even a country of 1.5 billion can touch you two.

We're talking on average here. Certainly there are plenty of beautiful of women in China, they're just not everywhere and hopping to get into your pants as the legends would suggest. Like I always say, there's no Chinese equivalent to the 'girl next door'.

Seth'n'Spectrum: We're talking on average here. Certainly there are plenty of beautiful of women in China, they're just not everywhere and hopping to get into your pants as the legends would suggest. Like I always say, there's no Chinese equivalent to the 'girl next door'.

I'm in china, 2 hour bus ride into Shanghai, Able to cross the river into Suzhou easily, Nanjing is a 4 hour ride away... trust me for every looker there is 100 bad ones.

Those who hang onto their youthful looks past 20 are rarer, but as a rule once they (the chinese) all hit 40.... it all falls apart

Bacontastesgood Quote 2009-10-28 10:18:56 PM
indarwinsshadow: Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet.

I think you're an asshole and it's probably obvious to everyone you come in contact with, so they keep the decent looking women far, far away from you.

Either that or you're only visiting rural shiatholes which are murder on everyone who lives there.

Suck me sideways Clarance.

indarwinsshadow: Bacontastesgood Quote 2009-10-28 10:18:56 PM
indarwinsshadow: Ugliest. People. On. The. Planet.

I think you're an asshole and it's probably obvious to everyone you come in contact with, so they keep the decent looking women far, far away from you.

Either that or you're only visiting rural shiatholes which are murder on everyone who lives there.

Suck me sideways Clarance.

What did I do?

Seth'n'Spectrum: In many of the large cities, people newly arrived from the countryside are discriminated against - its worse than the 'hillbilly' stereotyping, people presume they are thieves and whores.

Countryside sounds like a pretty fun time.

bronny14: We do not allow Chinese workers in our ship yard here in Korea. Even if the buyer insists, we say no. A few years ago Korean immigration caught 2 Chinese workers with thumb drives containing about 40,000 pages of design documents from Hyundai, Samsung and Daewoo shipyards.
No tolerance policy now.

What's your policy in regards to colored people?

I met, supposedly, Ms. China 2006 at a party in Beijing. My immediate thought was there couldn't have been alot of competition that year. Not a lot of pretty women there.

poot_rootbeer: What's your policy in regards to colored people?

Well just remember you CAN openly discriminate against people in Asia. Age is the big one.
Anyway, all the Koreans know that China will overtake Korea as the largest ship maker in the world. They are just trying not to hand them the keys on a silver platter. From virtually 0% market share 10 years ago, they will have over 40% in another decade.

bronny14: poot_rootbeer: What's your policy in regards to colored people?

Well just remember you CAN openly discriminate against people in Asia. Age is the big one.
Anyway, all the Koreans know that China will overtake Korea as the largest ship maker in the world. They are just trying not to hand them the keys on a silver platter. From virtually 0% market share 10 years ago, they will have over 40% in another decade.


I'm not sure I'd buy a Chinese ship. I'd worry that they designed it to sink in 5 years so I'd have to buy another one, or that they replaced the hull steel with Hot Wheels metal.