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(The New York Times)   Old & busted: No spanking your children. New hotness: No yelling at your children. Coming soon: Why does mommy have a drinking problem?   (nytimes.com) divider line 447
    More: Obvious, drinking problem, parenting skills, aggressive behaviour, JACKIE KLEIN, Duke University, shouting, pop culture, Cub Scouts  
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12656 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2009 at 3:51 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-10-22 04:52:51 PM  
Yup, took a poll of the one 14 year old here in the house. Told her about this no-yelling no-spanking business, and she said:

"I think it's retarded."

/and that's that.
//yeah, she was spanked and yelled at
///only yelled at this week
 
2009-10-22 04:54:06 PM  
Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

/my son earned the nickname "Destructo" from the other boys in daycare before he was even a year old.


I have two older brothers. Apparently the oldest was spanked occasionally, the middle almost none. And then there was me. I think I was probably spanked at least once a day between the ages of 3 and 6. And I spent a lot of time standing in the corner (timeout).

/yes, I was a mouthy brat.
 
2009-10-22 04:54:11 PM  
dragonchild: If I had kids I would consider corporal punishment, but only under the condition that the kid is being such a dumbass that any consequences will be far more painful than the beating.


Exactly. I never ruled it out but as it turned out it was never needed. Most kids want you to be proud of them. Until they're in their teens anyway. Of course, we have a girl and I've heard they're a LOT easier than boys. She might have gotten a swat on the butt once by her mom but that's about it...
 
2009-10-22 04:54:24 PM  
mandingueiro: spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.

Posting stuff without any explanation is equally so.

How do you figure it being counter-productive? It worked for me. I was told not to do "X." I tested the limits and did it anyway. I got spanked. I didn't do it again because I learned it wouldn't be tolerated. Tah-dah.
 
2009-10-22 04:55:12 PM  
Nuuu: The important question isn't whether or not you believe you're in control when you're yelling or spanking, but what your child thinks. You may think that yelling at your child is just part of your ordinary discipline plan, but if your kid sees it as you flipping out, then it is you flipping out, and that is going to cost you authority in the long run.

The tone of voice is very key. Merely being loud isn't the same as yelling, at least as I see it. It's when the tinge of hysteria creeps in that it's game over.

Billy Ligue: that works well for wet, runny snot, but when it's hardened to a pebble, and right in the nares, then you can get hold of it with a tweezers and pull it out, root and all.

I can DEFINITELY understand why people want to teach their kids to pick their own noses, pronto...!
 
2009-10-22 04:55:20 PM  
Not An Alt:
This is what's wrong w/ the world, this is why we have rotten children running around. Give them one week at my house and I'll break them from that, I guarantee it.

After yesterday, I hesitate to respond to you, but if you are serious: You do not break children

If you are not serious, how do I get this damn hook out of my mouth.
 
2009-10-22 04:55:24 PM  
When I was growing up I distinctly remember wishing my dad would hit me. Being hit sounded infinitely better than a 4-hour expletive-laden shouting spree of...well let's not go down that road.

/nope, never did hit me
//why yes, I am in therapy
///:)
 
2009-10-22 04:55:39 PM  

Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.




WTF.


I really could never go into public service or medicine. I can't handle these stories.
 
2009-10-22 04:55:40 PM  
Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?

I have no idea. I'm going with wanting to give their children the things they feel they didn't have (toys, books, whatever), coupled with a rise in awareness about child abuse.

I've been around enough parents now to see a fear among them today that Child Protective Services will swoop down out of the trees and take their children away from them if the so much as sternly talk to their children (a bit of hyperbole, but you get my point).

The ones that never raise their voice or plead with their child rather than remove them from the situation (like say out to the car at a restaurant) are the ones most paranoid.

Pretty soon taking a toy away as discipline will be linked with an adults preoccupation with accumulating material things; and will be discouraged.

We call "playpens" "play-yards" now for goodness sake! Because a child young enough to be in one really has his or her feelings hurt at the idea of being placed in a playpen, rather than a play-yard.
 
2009-10-22 04:55:54 PM  
Jeff73: This guy has a handle on it I think:

Holy farking shait, that's good stuff.
 
2009-10-22 04:56:01 PM  
If you spanked, then you wouldn't have to shout. Problem solved.
 
2009-10-22 04:56:07 PM  
mandingueiro:

hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.


I don't spank with out telling them why. I don't spank in anger. I ask if they understand WHY they are getting spanked. JUST LIKE THE COURTS DO WHEN YOU GET PUNISHED.... jus sayin
 
2009-10-22 04:56:33 PM  
I thought you were supposed to shake your kids to make 'em stop crying.
 
2009-10-22 04:56:47 PM  
Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.
 
2009-10-22 04:57:16 PM  
itazurakko: Billy Ligue: How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.

Don't they sell those rubber squeeze bulbs just for that sorta thing?

They say when it's your own kid it's all okay and good. I dunno :)


The rounded end of a bobby pin is better. You can really hook it and pull it out.
Q-tips just shove the crap further up.
Fingernails are okay, but I hate ruining a perfectly good manicure.
 
2009-10-22 04:57:26 PM  
whoviantrekkie: OlafTheBent: Ennuipoet: Not a big fan of the little ones.

I've never laughed as hard at a dinner table as I do with the wife and kids now.

/They're funny as Hell

Children are a life ruining experience that will mess up your careers and social life forever. I fail to understand why people want to have them...



Too bad your parents didn't feel the same way....
 
2009-10-22 04:58:00 PM  
Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

I will say, even without any kids I've managed to have a laugh or two at a particular neighbor who was blessed with a really calm kid and chalked it all up to what a great mom she was, to the point of really being sanctimonious to other moms - until she had Kid #2 who was just a completely different personality.

Some part of it is just farking random.
 
2009-10-22 04:58:11 PM  
mysticcat: Mommy drinks because you cry

/approves (new window)
 
2009-10-22 04:58:22 PM  
bemis23: scarmig: scalpod: Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!

*raises hand*

I distinctly remember my father saying, "No, that's not a switch. *SNAP* This is a switch.

To this day I refuse to have a river birch tree in my yard. The flexible branches hurt worse.


Yeah, willows too.
 
2009-10-22 04:58:32 PM  
Blink: I'm a parenting snob. I believe my children are my responsibility -- and if they at any time negatively affecting other adults in a public place, I owe that adult an apology followed up by an immediate correction of my own kids' behavior.

Seems to me your child owes that adult an apology as well.

Reactions to a child's behavior that irk me:

1) The parent acting like its the other person's fault for the child's actions. "Well, what are you doing with a dangerous dog in public!" after children harass the poor animal with sticks, stones, and tail pulling and the dog tells them "NO!" in so many barks and growls.

2) Parents rushing to apologize for their child's behavior in front of the child. Children have eyes, crazy I know, and if they see you swooping in like Batman to create a human shield for their mistakes, then they will continue to use you (the parent) as their human shield.

Plus, I don't give a flying monkey poo about whether the parent is sorry; the parent isn't the one who needs to get off my lawn.

Just some thoughts.
 
2009-10-22 04:58:55 PM  
Devil's Playground: After yesterday, I hesitate to respond to you, but if you are serious: You do not break children

If you are not serious, how do I get this damn hook out of my mouth.


you DO break children, that's part of raising them. If you don't, then you have spoiled little assholes that think they run the household. You bring em down a notch or two or make them understand that you correct them once before they get a pop, and you'll be in control.

Time-out doesn't do that, grounding doesn't do that, a belt across the back of the legs does.
 
2009-10-22 05:00:46 PM  
The most important part of punishment of any sort is follow-through. And i don't mean as a hitting technique ;P I mean there must be a discussion (not just lecture, though a lecture is sure a good place to start if it's serious enough) about what happened, why it was wrong/unsafe/stupid, and how they will avoid repeating the same mistake. Punishment is pointless unless the kid actually learns a lesson from it.
 
2009-10-22 05:00:47 PM  
itazurakko: Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

I will say, even without any kids I've managed to have a laugh or two at a particular neighbor who was blessed with a really calm kid and chalked it all up to what a great mom she was, to the point of really being sanctimonious to other moms - until she had Kid #2 who was just a completely different personality.

Some part of it is just farking random.



OMG - you're my neighbor!!!!

/if I had number 2 first there would be no number 2
 
2009-10-22 05:01:06 PM  
Parenting = Consistency in all things.

Demeanor
Consequences
Affection
Schedule

Set rules, enforce them. Time out works the same way spanking does.

You train your kids how to respond to you. When you yell ALL the time, it means nothing. When you rarely raise your voice, but always follow through on what you say, your kids will listen.

Once you are able to communicate with your child, spanking is unnecessary.
 
2009-10-22 05:01:22 PM  
imgod2u: Jeff73: This guy has a handle on it I think:

Holy farking shait, that's good stuff.


And that's only an edited version of something that appeared on 4chan.
 
2009-10-22 05:01:37 PM  
dragonchild: Not when your son suddenly hits a growth spurt AND "rebellious teen" phase at the same time, and realizes A) you've been using violence to manipulate him and B) he's now stronger than you.

I'm not a parent, but I've been on the receiving end of "corporal punishment" used merely to get me to do something trivial (like put away shoes) or simply because Dad was having a Bad Day. From a kid's point of view, there's little difference. If I had kids I would consider corporal punishment, but only under the condition that the kid is being such a dumbass that any consequences will be far more painful than the beating.


I should probably explain... My youngest son (now 6) is the ONLY one that gets that treatment, and that's because it's the only way to get his attention. Of course, now I seldom have to do it. It's usually more of, "Put your shoes away." Then he ignores, and I clap my hands or get him to look at me and tell him very clearly (so he doesn't mistake me), "Put your shoes away." If he ignores me (i.e., refuses to do it) after that, then he gets one swat and he gets told again. After I'm sure that he's heard me correctly, his refusal to do as he's told becomes a matter of outright defiance, and that is intolerable in our household.

We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.

At this point, spanking is rare. When we ask them to do something and they don't, you can usually say, "Are you choosing to be disobedient?" and they'll jump up. Putting shoes away may be trivial, but disobeying a parent is NOT a trivial matter. Disobedience is a sign of disrespect of a parent and is NOT tolerated. That way my children learn that when I say something, I expect it to be followed. Period. That way I no longer have to repeat myself numerous times or yell in order to be heard or listened to.

Children are very smart. They know when they've pushed you too far. Watch sometime... A mom who never spanks until she's completely lost her cool is a mom who has to lose her temper and yell before her child will obey her--he'll push her as long as possible and then jump to obey only when he knows that a negative consequence is coming. Sometimes he might misjudge it, but that doesn't change what he's trying to do. If he has a mom that does 1-2-3 and actually follows up with a meaningful consequence on "3", the child will wait until 2 1/2 to follow the instructions. If, on the other hand, a parent expects to be obeyed immediately and follows through with a negative consequence (whether that's a single swat on the rear or removal of a toy or privilege), the child will learn to obey IMMEDIATELY.
 
2009-10-22 05:01:44 PM  
Death_Poot: "hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit."

Worzel Gummidge FTW!

"Mommy, why is Doctor Who covered in cow poop?"
 
2009-10-22 05:02:51 PM  
Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.
 
2009-10-22 05:02:56 PM  
All this talk of spanking is making me horny.
 
2009-10-22 05:03:02 PM  
asmodeus224: Kidsd here, never yelled. Yelling and hitting is a sign of lack of control when you are a parent. You are the adult, you have the power, no need to hit or yell. If you do you failed a long time ago.

Nice for you that you grew up in a yelling household and learned nothing from the experience other than 'yelling is perfectly fine'.


You're another of those who confuse any raised voice or physical punishment with loss of control. I'm sure you feel that a cop who drags a criminal down and has to yank their hands behind their back to cuff them has "lost control" and is "angry", right?

And no, that's not a straw man. It serves to show that there's plenty of ways to use physical force and/or raised voices without control being lost. They are tools to REASSERT control. If your kid is acting like a little snotbag, you have ALREADY lost control. A quick swat on the bum gets them back under control right quick, and a hell of a lot more efficiently than trying to put them in timeout when they won't stay where you put them and/or start destroying anything in the room you've put them in (and yes, I'm pulling from direct personal experience with that).

Nuuu: The important question isn't whether or not you believe you're in control when you're yelling or spanking, but what your child thinks. You may think that yelling at your child is just part of your ordinary discipline plan, but if your kid sees it as you flipping out, then it is you flipping out, and that is going to cost you authority in the long run. I also understand that there is a wide chasm between raising your voice and screaming epithets, which is why I never said anything about raised voices. You must have heard me wrong. There is, comparatively, a narrower chasm between screaming epithets and just plain screaming, or even yelling. A parent may need to rise above the noise to ensure that they have their child's full, undivided attention, but anything past that, anything that breaches that calm and collected persona, makes it look like you're fighting for control rather than an omnipresent force of parental authority.

That's all I was talking about, with raised voices. If they're listening to you, and you're still yelling, you're doing it out of anger, and doing it out of anger means you're out of control. I take this stance, though, because some people think ANY raising of your voice is "bad", even a quick "Hey!" to pierce through their screaming and get them to listen to you for a second.


And speaking of flipping out. In your Weeners to a random internet poster, you call him a twit, drop a filtered F bomb, and make about two exaggerated analogies. If this bears any resemblance to how you handle your own children, I can understand why you're on the defensive.

1> They were a twit, in my opinion.
2> If Fark didn't do it automatically, it wouldn't have been filtered. Vulgarities have been a critical part of English since before English was English, and I refuse to artificially limit my vocabulary, thus limiting my ability to succinctly express myself, because someone might be offended, when we're supposedly all reasonably adult people here.
3> I go drinking with my buddies, but that doesn't mean I'll buy a toddler a beer. Almost everyone is capable of modulating behaviour based on their surroundings. I'm a teacher, and if I dropped a "fark" in a grade 5 classroom, I'd probably be having a chat with the principal about my conduct. If it were grade 7 and we were talking about Catcher in the Rye, it would be fine.

Feel free to attack my actual argument rather than the style of my posts, though. For someone who's going to harp on my analogies being a bit exaggerated, that's awfully close to being outright fallacious in your own argument.
 
2009-10-22 05:03:45 PM  
Devil's Playground: I have come to the conclusion that no one should have kids until they are in their 40's.

Who knows. Maybe the generational gap thing. My mom suddenly had completely different ideas about discipline when it came to babysitting my sister's children. Of course she was already past that 40 mark, but it was quite strange seeing her interact with children without grabbing a belt or coat hanger.
 
2009-10-22 05:05:28 PM  
Doctor Funkenstein: Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.


It's 8 or 80 lbs in most places - but the law varies by state.


Wendy's Chili: All this talk of spanking is making me horny.


woah - what are you doing out here
 
2009-10-22 05:05:38 PM  
Propaganda Panda: 2) Parents rushing to apologize for their child's behavior in front of the child. Children have eyes, crazy I know, and if they see you swooping in like Batman to create a human shield for their mistakes, then they will continue to use you (the parent) as their human shield.

any parent that rushes up to me and tries to apologize for their little brat instead of putting him or her in line will get kicked in the beanbag.

My kids walk right behind me at stores, never leave my sight, and if I tell them to get something, they politely make their way to the item, place it in the cart, and get back in line behind me. If one of them stops for a toy, I spank his ass right there in the store in front of everyone. It serves two purposes:

first, he gets his ass beat for getting out of line

second, he has to walk around sobbing and watching people staring at him because he's crying in public.

His brother sees this and straightens up too, lest he be embarrassed by this.
 
2009-10-22 05:05:40 PM  
hobnail: Lex Kitten: I know a few sets of parents in their 30's who have decided that telling their snowflakes "No" is harmful to them and refuse to do it. Their children are demons. I dread having to be in the same room with them.

/ I know, I know, cool story ho...

For real? Good lord....


Oh yes. The kids act out every waking minute of their lives desperately looking for boundaries. It's awful to watch. One of them used my mom's new white curtains as a napkin to wipe his chocolate cake-y hands and face on while the parents watched and didn't say a word. Or even offer to try to clean them.

On another visit his sister (who was pissy because my mom had the audacity to tell her not to touch some of her nice antique stuff), took a full glass of juice and stood in the center of the room, waited until all eyes were on her and then poured it on the carpet with a self-satisfied shiat eating grin.

Murderous rage doesn't even begin. We were friends with the parents for years but now I can't even bring myself to speak to them.
 
2009-10-22 05:05:42 PM  
meat0918: We call "playpens" "play-yards" now for goodness sake! Because a child young enough to be in one really has his or her feelings hurt at the idea of being placed in a playpen, rather than a play-yard.

I forgot they were called play pens. I was saying baby cage, but the lady at the store just kind of looked at me. I knew play yard didn't sound right, but that is what they are called now.
 
2009-10-22 05:05:56 PM  
gambitsgirl: dhudd:

I generally agree; except for the spanking. A spank that is hard enough to hurt does damage to the muscles. A switch is the way to go (not a belt).

Many's the time my oldest would say "Dad, would you just hit me instead of yelling at me".

The Chinese water torture method of punishment works best - endlessly repeated mantras - at some point they will obey just to not to have to hear them anymore.


Like the other's here, I haven't had to spank them much since they turned 5. My daughter once and my son once a year. I HATE the switch since that's what I got so I won't use it. Now I really am using "taking away privileges" route with a smattering of "take a belt out of the drawer and stare them down" for fun.


I only used the switch once. They were 6 and 3 at the time (boys). We had to take them with us to see a builder; they acted up. I warned them the next time they acted up I would switch them. They acted up again. The oldest was bent over my lap, I didn't have the heart to hit him, so I fairly gently tapped him and he laughed. I switched him pretty smartly. Then the 3 year old got on the lap, I switched him very gently, and he (having seen the older brother's screw up) cried like a stuck pig at the gentle tap. The older brother still cringes when I tell the story.

One's a economist, the others an architect; both are outstanding individuals who could kick my ass when they where 16 (I played basketball in the winter; they wrestled).

I also had both of them Rolfed when they where young, and if you look that up, you will discover why I don't like spanking.
 
2009-10-22 05:07:29 PM  
PumpkinCake: Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

WTF.

I really could never go into public service or medicine. I can't handle these stories.




You've got to wonder how it went down though. Was it a standard birthday party atmosphere except instead of a cake the table was covered with towels and rope? Did the men take turns conga-line style and keep each other busy while waiting? Was she kept airtight by rotating groups of three (or five if her hands were involved) while the rest sat and watched? Every scenario I can think of seems awkward and inefficient, which makes me think that shooting the film was probably a logistical challenge.
 
2009-10-22 05:07:31 PM  
kxs401: Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.


Close. You should be calm and in control and the punishment needs to be consistent. It is not always necessary that the child understand fully all the reasons for their punishment. For example, a two-year-old can't understand, "Don't snatch toys from my playmate because it makes him cry," but she CAN understand, "When I snatch toys, I get my hand slapped and it hurts." At that age, the ability to understand is limited. Think Pavlov's dogs... Negative stimulus is something to avoid.

All that being said, the punishment must be viewed as a "negative" for that specific child. It must be seen as a bad thing in order to be effective. The psychologists call this a "meaningful consequence". In other words, spanking would be useless with my 11-year-old daughter because it would mean nothing to her. Grounding her from her Nintendo DS or her cell phone, OTOH, would be "meaningful" and therefore effective.

We can use meaningful consequences that are positive as well. We do sticker charts and reward tokens and so forth. But with very immature children, these types of special rewards and/or removal of toys or privileges are not always as meaningful, whereas the application of mild physical discomfort IS meaningful. The punishment does not have to fit the crime; the punishment must fit the CHILD.
 
2009-10-22 05:08:51 PM  
I would like to see a heat map of geographies within the US that are more accepting of spanking- then I would like to cross-reference it with one representing welfare assistance and against the recent voting maps from the presidential election.

Just would be interesting IMO
 
2009-10-22 05:09:19 PM  
dhudd: Rolfed

Rolf theorized that 'bound up' fascia (or connective tissue) often restricts opposing muscles from functioning in concert with one another, much in the way water, having crystallized, forms hard, unyielding ice. Her practice aimed to separate bound up fascia by deeply separating the fibers manually to loosen them and allow effective movement patterns. Rolf believed that an adequate knowledge of living human anatomy and hands-on training were required in order to safely negotiate the appropriate manipulations and depths necessary to free the bound-up fascia



o.O
 
2009-10-22 05:09:20 PM  
Not An Alt: mandingueiro: hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.

I wish we could still do that kind of stuff, but you hit one black guy and the world gets pussified. You're a whiny intellectual ass because your daddy never took off his belt and showed you what it means to be punished, so you go through life thinking you're better than everyone cause you've never had beltmarks on your back and legs.

People wonder why we haven't won any wars since nam.


lmao. in all honesty, my dad is VERY oldschool. You're just a closet racist who refuses to accept alternative discipline measures: "hey ya'll lets just beat them blacks to Africa. the South will rise! FREEBIRD"

/you present yourself as a f*ckin idiot.
 
2009-10-22 05:09:37 PM  
Article is worthless, and so are these types of parents who read rags like the NY Times - they are seriously living in fantasy world. These are the types of parents who drink heavily, or are on some serious meds prescribed by their shrink.

But that doesnt apply to people living in the real world.

Raising kids is tough, and it WILL make even the most calm person insane. Yelling and spanking are a part of raising a child, period.
 
2009-10-22 05:09:40 PM  
morgantx: kxs401: Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.

Close. You should be calm and in control and the punishment needs to be consistent. It is not always necessary that the child understand fully all the reasons for their punishment. For example, a two-year-old can't understand, "Don't snatch toys from my playmate because it makes him cry," but she CAN understand, "When I snatch toys, I get my hand slapped and it hurts." At that age, the ability to understand is limited. Think Pavlov's dogs... Negative stimulus is something to avoid.

All that being said, the punishment must be viewed as a "negative" for that specific child. It must be seen as a bad thing in order to be effective. The psychologists call this a "meaningful consequence". In other words, spanking would be useless with my 11-year-old daughter because it would mean nothing to her. Grounding her from her Nintendo DS or her cell phone, OTOH, would be "meaningful" and therefore effective.

We can use meaningful consequences that are positive as well. We do sticker charts and reward tokens and so forth. But with very immature children, these types of special rewards and/or removal of toys or privileges are not always as meaningful, whereas the application of mild physical discomfort IS meaningful. The punishment does not have to fit the crime; the punishment must fit the CHILD.


Right, they need to see the action and the consequence as linked. That makes sense. And I totally understand that different children require different consequences.
 
2009-10-22 05:09:53 PM  
itazurakko: Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

I will say, even without any kids I've managed to have a laugh or two at a particular neighbor who was blessed with a really calm kid and chalked it all up to what a great mom she was, to the point of really being sanctimonious to other moms - until she had Kid #2 who was just a completely different personality.

Some part of it is just farking random.


I agree. My daughter is a mild mannered 10 year old who gets excellent grades and behaves wonderfully. She respects her elders and rarely steps out of line. At her age, i was already being sent home from school and getting into all sorts of trouble.

I do discipline her, but I rarely have to, because she naturally just wants to do the right thing. So you can't really credit my parenting much.

Neither me or her mother were that way growing up, and hell we still aren't now. So you can't exactly credit genetics either. It really is just random sometimes.

No, I'm not going to have another child, because it will be just like I was as a kid, and I would finally get my repayment. No thanks.
 
2009-10-22 05:10:31 PM  
gambitsgirl: It's 8 or 80 lbs in most places - but the law varies by state.

Damn, didn't know there were laws about that stuff. Shows you what I know. I feel kind of bad for the kid. I can tell he doesn't like that seat. He's a cool shiat, too, and I think that seat is cramping his style. Maybe I'll starting feeding him burgers and cheese and whatnot when his parents aren't looking so he'll beef up to 80lbs quicker.
 
2009-10-22 05:10:43 PM  
pwhp_67: The Mind Boggles: the child's actions and the biatch's reaction


It was the mom that really got me. I told my wife later that this lady had no clue that I was far more irritated with her than I was with her child. She kept making excuses for her kid and I kept trying to tell her she was a shiatty parent. That's how farked up this society is. He's picking on my child! No, no I'm not...


Oh hell no. I would have appreciated you bringing that to my attention had I missed it the first time mine disturbed you. Oh these are the types of people I have dealt with myself. We took my daughter to Callaway Gardens when she was around 2 years old. There was a group of high school students there in the Butterfly House and two of the boys were harassing the ducks by throwing sticks and lighting matches and flinging them into the water. My husband and I told the people working there and here comes one of the boys' mothers who proceeds to scream at me. Not only did security come and throw her and her rotten little crotch fruit out, the police were also called because they had them ON CAMERA damaging the butterfly enclosure and attempting to kill a bird in the aviary. Even with video evidence this mom still DENIED it, saying that it was a big conspiracy against her because we were jealous of her and her son. (WTF???) She was so oblivious and convinced that her kid was 'perfect'.

/It was there and then I decided that I would not raise a serial killer/Paris Hilton.
 
2009-10-22 05:11:03 PM  
Didgeridon't: For the love of FSM, a couple of the schools near me won't even let the teachers use red pens because it could "cause emotional scarring". WTF.

My HVAC instructor said they were trying to take away their red pens too for the same BS reason. When I asked if he was going to go along with it, my ex-Navy (the guy hunted Russian subs, ferfarksake!) instructor just smiled and showed me a whole box of red grease pencils. He doesn't plan on running out any time soon.
 
2009-10-22 05:11:08 PM  
The Mind Boggles: pwhp_67: So I'm at the movies and this girl behind me is kicking my seat. I turn around, glare at her, and hope she gets the message. She doesn't.

So I turn around again and tell her to quit it. She doesn't.

So I tell the mom that her kid is kicking my seat and I'm not happy. She quits for a while then starts up again halfway during the movie.

When the movie is over I turn to the mom and say, "Your kid kicked my seat through the whole movie. That's how you're raising your kid? Good job."

She got mad at me and tells me that "she's just a little kid". I said, "I know. That's why I told you to do something and that's why I'm telling you now. Your kid is a brat."

As she's leaving the theater she yells at me: "She's just a kid!"

Me, "I know. Parent your goddam kid - she's a pain in the ass!"


At some point she decided that because her child is young it's perfectly OK for her to act like an ass. Am I missing something? Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."

Had one of my kids done that, I would have forced them to stop, apologize to you and then we would have taken a trip to the bathroom so I could correct their behavior with a talking to and a swat on the bottom. And, I would have paid you for your seat.

/NO excuse for that what so ever
//the child's actions and the biatch's reaction


I'll be at the 7:30 showing of Where the Wild Things Are.
/brunette hair, dark green sweater
//loves me some Whoppers too, please
 
2009-10-22 05:11:16 PM  
morgantx: All that being said, the punishment must be viewed as a "negative" for that specific child. It must be seen as a bad thing in order to be effective. The psychologists call this a "meaningful consequence". In other words, spanking would be useless with my 11-year-old daughter because it would mean nothing to her. Grounding her from her Nintendo DS or her cell phone, OTOH, would be "meaningful" and therefore effective.

Grounding from the computer works wonders with my children. Of course, changing their bed time schedules so the 3 year old goes to bed 30 minutes before the 5 year old changed their behavior almost instantly. Both are better behaved, because they are not keeping each other awake until 11-12 at night.
 
2009-10-22 05:11:27 PM  
morgantx: We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.

I like your point, but can you explain how disobedience and defiance are two different things?
 
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