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(Quad City Times)   Chiropractic school graduates suing their alumni association for fraud   (qctimes.com ) divider line
    More: Ironic, Palmer College, alumni association, Supreme Court ruling, Chiropractic school, Iowa Supreme Court, legal counsel, fraud, legal battles  
•       •       •

8787 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2009 at 11:48 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



100 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2009-10-22 11:50:02 AM  
Oh snap!
 
2009-10-22 11:50:09 AM  
Wait. What?
 
2009-10-22 11:51:12 AM  
So they were finally given all the secrets of chiropractic when they graduated?
 
2009-10-22 11:51:22 AM  
Shake and Bake U.?
 
2009-10-22 11:53:24 AM  
So the alumni association went beyond normal 'chiropractic manipulation'?
 
2009-10-22 11:53:47 AM  
I think a need a cleansing foot bath.
 
2009-10-22 11:54:43 AM  
The shiat works for me, so I can't say this is ironic.
 
2009-10-22 11:57:04 AM  

bhcompy: The shiat works for me, so I can't say this is ironic.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
 
2009-10-22 11:57:58 AM  
The plural of anecdote is not data.
 
2009-10-22 12:02:47 PM  
The ironing is delicious.
 
2009-10-22 12:04:31 PM  
Homer: Less yackin' more cracking.

Chiropractor: Now Homer, we don't actually crack backs, it's merely an adjustment. Okay, now you're going to hear a loud cracking sound...
 
2009-10-22 12:05:03 PM  

XMark: bhcompy: The shiat works for me, so I can't say this is ironic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo


I had a twisted disc that my doctor said would would require surgery if the pain didn't go away and my fathers Chiropractor fixed me in two visits.

/just sayin'
 
2009-10-22 12:06:41 PM  
Very clever use of the Ironic tag. Gold star.
 
2009-10-22 12:07:50 PM  

Do the needful: Oh snap!


You win.
 
2009-10-22 12:09:33 PM  
They got sent out on a snipe subluxation hunt. After ten cold, damp hours in the woods they realized they'd been punked.
 
2009-10-22 12:10:03 PM  
Hi Everybody!

Hi Doctor Nick!
 
2009-10-22 12:12:08 PM  
There are two types of Chiropractors.

One type specializes in back an neck problems. They deal in only these things and through manipulation and massage of your back properly, they can fix legitimate problems.

The other type claims they can fix many more ailments than just neck and back issues. They say through spinal manipulation you can be cured of disease. They claim chiropractic medicine is a one-stop cure for all the ails you.

Both are unnecessary. The second is obviously a total quack and scam artist. These people are not only scumbags taking money from the desperate and gullible, but they're also causing people to delay real treatment, and causing real harm to their patients. The first type can help you with neck and back problems, sure. However, a physical therapist can do the same thing for less money.

The biggest scam chiropractors have is telling patients they need to come in for weekly adjustments. They tell their patients that they will have adverse health problems if they dont come in every week to see them. Of course the patient has to pay for each session. A patient is hearing this about their health from someone they trust about their wellbeing. They think they HAVE to have this done, so the imbalanced power structure the chiropractors have essentially forces scared patients into getting treatment they dont need and cant afford. It sickens me.
 
2009-10-22 12:18:01 PM  

Yakk: XMark: bhcompy: The shiat works for me, so I can't say this is ironic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

I had a twisted disc that my doctor said would would require surgery if the pain didn't go away and my fathers Chiropractor fixed me in two visits.

/just sayin'


Wow a twisted disc, ouch. Advil could have taken care of that.
 
2009-10-22 12:18:29 PM  

Yakk: XMark: bhcompy: The shiat works for me, so I can't say this is ironic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

I had a twisted disc that my doctor said would would require surgery if the pain didn't go away and my fathers Chiropractor fixed me in two visits.

/just sayin'


Do either you or your 'doctor' know *how* he did it?

/ Just sayin'
 
2009-10-22 12:19:39 PM  
well, let's see...

brain is connected to every tissue via nerves...

nerves go through spine...

what happens if your spine is unhealthy?
 
2009-10-22 12:22:31 PM  
I thought only really really old doctors still had some stick up their ass about chiropractors.
 
2009-10-22 12:25:44 PM  

blingblingishere: nerves go through spine...

what happens if your spine is unhealthy?


Slow down! You're going to give yourself skin failure!

/diagnosis: "bonus eruptus"
 
2009-10-22 12:29:22 PM  

XMark: bhcompy: The shiat works for me, so I can't say this is ironic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo



Placebo or not, I was having lower back pain earlier this year, and seeing a chiropractor helped....and the pain has not returned.
 
2009-10-22 12:32:40 PM  
Well, the alumni association have probably been spending all that money buying football players for the college team, the "Fightin' Punch Doctors".
 
2009-10-22 12:34:47 PM  
As a physician, I can tell you that many orthopedic surgeons refer their patients to chiropractors for treatment of back and neck pain often with good nonsurgical results.
Curing diabetes, however? NOT!
 
2009-10-22 12:35:27 PM  
I get the impression that many people think that all chiropractors are quacks and forget that there are some who do not claim that they can cure asthma, cancer and aids, but stick to treating back pain.

They may be glorified masseuses, but I don't see any problem with the claim that applying force to the spine can alleviate back pain.
 
2009-10-22 12:36:09 PM  
Subby:
www.fugly.com
 
2009-10-22 12:38:48 PM  
I've gone to chiropractors for back pain and it has helped a little. However the best thing I have ever done for my back is consistent yoga.
 
2009-10-22 12:44:59 PM  

Light Fuse Get Away: I've gone to chiropractors for back pain and it has helped a little. However the best thing I have ever done for my back is consistent yoga.


z.about.com

Agrees
 
mhd
2009-10-22 12:45:58 PM  

Verlorenes Metallgeld: They may be glorified masseuses, but I don't see any problem with the claim that applying force to the spine can alleviate back pain.


Neither did Kristi Bedenbaugh.

/There's room enough in "normal" medicine for spinal manipulation.
 
2009-10-22 12:48:55 PM  
I'd say most of the support of chiropractic is anecdotal.
In other words, due to

1. The problem would have gone away anyway
2. The practitioner would have told you to avoid strenuous work that would aggravate a healing back.
3. The good old placebo effect, enhanced by the fact that you are paying good money for it.

It appears that the woo-woo manipulation is helping.

Yes, I've heard of some medical doctors referring their "Hopeless" back cases to chiropractors. That's a bit dishonest IMHO. They might as well hand out sugar pills.
 
2009-10-22 12:51:25 PM  

Twigz221: Both are unnecessary. The second is obviously a total quack and scam artist. These people are not only scumbags taking money from the desperate and gullible, but they're also causing people to delay real treatment, and causing real harm to their patients. The first type can help you with neck and back problems, sure. However, a physical therapist can do the same thing for less money.


Well, it had to be said. And thanks for saying it so succinctly. I second the idea of a Physical Therapist. I would be 1000x more fubar'd from my herniated disk if I had a Chiropractor simply clearing the symptoms away each week instead of working hard at remedying the disc itself, which my Phys Therapist did. Hooray for science!
 
2009-10-22 12:53:13 PM  

Twigz221: There are two types of Chiropractors...


You have described it concisely. Thank you.
 
2009-10-22 12:54:44 PM  

Verlorenes Metallgeld: They may be glorified masseuses


Does the session finish with a "happy ending"?
 
2009-10-22 12:54:52 PM  

mhd: /There's room enough in "normal" medicine for spinal manipulation.


sure there is - if they didn't try to make me watch the 'I'm not a quack' video and insist on the old stand-by routines:

1. One of your legs is shorter than the other one

2. One of your shoulders is lower than the other one

... well then I might give it a shot. But the current routine just smells faintly of carnival.
 
2009-10-22 12:56:29 PM  
I had horrible sciatica 2-4 times a week for 2 years. I was on the brink of quitting the job I had at the time where I stood 10 hours a day. I submitted myself to a chiropractor visit out of desperation. My sciatica wasn't cured by any means (I still feel twinges) but I've haven't felt 1/10th the pain I had during those 2 years.

/my anecdote
//Couldn't hug my husband right after adjustment. My new posture made me an inch and a half taller. Was fixed when he got cracked and his posture improved too.
 
2009-10-22 01:01:07 PM  
Physical therapy > Chiropractic

Maybe it's just easier to lie there and hear cracking than to put hard work into it.
 
2009-10-22 01:02:33 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'd say most of the support of chiropractic is anecdotal.
In other words, due to

1. The problem would have gone away anyway
2. The practitioner would have told you to avoid strenuous work that would aggravate a healing back.
3. The good old placebo effect, enhanced by the fact that you are paying good money for it.

It appears that the woo-woo manipulation is helping.

Yes, I've heard of some medical doctors referring their "Hopeless" back cases to chiropractors. That's a bit dishonest IMHO. They might as well hand out sugar pills.


I rotated 2 of my lower lumbar in HS and I really don't think they would have just rotated themselves back to normal.
 
mhd
2009-10-22 01:05:32 PM  

JohnBigBootay: mhd: /There's room enough in "normal" medicine for spinal manipulation.

sure there is - if they didn't try to make me watch the 'I'm not a quack' video and insist on the old stand-by routines:


They? Chiropractors?

Then I didn't express myself clearly enough. I meant that even within evidence-based medicine spinal manipulations are done. So nothing chiropractors do is some hidden science. The basis of their view of the human body is completely off, though, so even if they are successful it's basically guesswork. I feel dirty when I do that kind of trial-and-error stuff as a programmer, I don't want someone who's supposed to cure people to do that.

Homeopaths are bad enough, but mostly they can only harm people by inducing inaction, chiropractors can do a lot of damage all of their own.
 
2009-10-22 01:09:14 PM  

DrMcNinja: Light Fuse Get Away: I've gone to chiropractors for back pain and it has helped a little. However the best thing I have ever done for my back is consistent yoga.

Agrees


Except I wear regular basketball shorts and not some sort of spandexy (?) leotard.

/NTTAWWT
 
2009-10-22 01:10:16 PM  

mhd: They? Chiropractors?

Then I didn't express myself clearly enough. I meant that even within evidence-based medicine spinal manipulations are done. So nothing chiropractors do is some hidden science. The basis of their view of the human body is completely off, though, so even if they are successful it's basically guesswork. I feel dirty when I do that kind of trial-and-error stuff as a programmer, I don't want someone who's supposed to cure people to do that.


I agree.
 
2009-10-22 01:18:37 PM  
Twigz221 2009-10-22 12:12:08 PM

There are two types of Chiropractors.

One type specializes in back an neck problems. They deal in only these things and through manipulation and massage of your back properly, they can fix legitimate problems.

The other type claims they can fix many more ailments than just neck and back issues. They say through spinal manipulation you can be cured of disease. They claim chiropractic medicine is a one-stop cure for all the ails you.

Both are unnecessary. The second is obviously a total quack and scam artist. These people are not only scumbags taking money from the desperate and gullible, but they're also causing people to delay real treatment, and causing real harm to their patients. The first type can help you with neck and back problems, sure. However, a physical therapist can do the same thing for less money.

The biggest scam chiropractors have is telling patients they need to come in for weekly adjustments. They tell their patients that they will have adverse health problems if they dont come in every week to see them. Of course the patient has to pay for each session. A patient is hearing this about their health from someone they trust about their wellbeing. They think they HAVE to have this done, so the imbalanced power structure the chiropractors have essentially forces scared patients into getting treatment they dont need and cant afford. It sickens me



You obviously believe what you're saying, so I'll resist attacking.
You have valid points , mostly regarding the type of chiropractor who claims to fix more than back and neck pain.
Imbalanced power structure? What the hell are you talking about?
ALL the power is with doctors and the AMA. You can't even get chiro treatments covered with insurance most of the time.
And how is a person trained to treat the neck and back a bad idea to go for when you have neck and back problems?
Most every doctor just wants to push painkillers on you, which does not treat the problem at all, or they want some totally suspect back operation done, the horror stories of which are numerous.
Do they try to get more money out of you? Who doesn't?
I guess you put all your faith in anyone who is called doctor. Cause they just want to help, huh?
 
2009-10-22 01:21:15 PM  
Aww man, chiropractors are fakes? But I just gave mine $1000 for an adjustment. He said it would rotate my spinal bone chakras and align my nerve fluid. He also claimed it would make my penis bigger and cure my baldness.
 
2009-10-22 01:26:40 PM  

csxtrainwreck: Physical therapy > Chiropractic Maybe it's just easier to lie there and hear cracking than to put hard work into it.


I was going to say that the chiropractor I used was also physical therapist and I set the bar by him. Unfortunately he hurt his arm in a car wreck and gave up the practice. I've tried others but none were as thorough as he was. Now I find that a good massage does just as much good and lasts longer.
 
2009-10-22 01:27:11 PM  

The_Sponge: Placebo or not, I was having lower back pain earlier this year, and seeing a chiropractor helped....and the pain has not returned.


Okay but how do you know a good massage wouldn't have had the same result?
 
2009-10-22 01:34:17 PM  
Wow.Interesting how many dismiss chiropractors as quackery, then extoll the virtues of "massage therapists", one of the most suspect titles there is.
Do most of you have personal trainers and life coaches, too?

/professional grief counselor
 
2009-10-22 01:35:52 PM  
Link (new window)

Released on 10/12/2009

Authors Niteesh Choudhry, MD, PhD, Harvard Medical School and Arnold Milstein, MD, Mercer Health and Benefits, San Francisco, CA, developed this authoritative report which reviews the existing peer reviewed literature and arrives at the following conclusions:

* Chiropractic care is widely used with almost half of all patients with persistent back pain seeking out this form of treatment.
* Chiropractic care for the treatment "for low back and neck pain is highly cost effective, represents a good value in comparison to medical physician case and to widely accepted cost effectiveness thresholds."
* "The addition of chiropractic coverage for the treatment of low back and neck pain...will likely increase value-for-dollar by improving clinical outcomes..."
* " ...we project that insurance coverage for chiropractic physician care...is likely to drive improved cost effectiveness of US care."
* "...our findings support the value of health insurance coverage of chiropractic care for low back and neck pain at average fees currently payable by US commercial insurers."

About the Authors:

Niteesh Choudhry, MD, PhD: Assistant Professor at Harvard Medical School and Associate Physician in the Division of Pharmacoepidemiology and Pharmacoeconomics and the Hospitalist Program at Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Arnold Milstein, M.D, MPH: Medical Director of the Pacific Business Group on Health(PBGH),the largest employer health care purchasing coalition in the US.. He is also Chief Physician at Mercer Health and Benefits, San Francisco, California.
 
2009-10-22 01:35:58 PM  
Regular adjustments have in the past made me feel better but it was a fairly minor thing. I don't get them these days because I can't be bothered. If I had back pain I would go to a chiro, no problem.

The part that bugs me is the way many of them will go on and on about all the associated BS. I had a cousin who was a chiro and he was one of the nuttier ones. His adjustments were definitely beneficial to me and I learned to tune out the rest. He was a good guy, very passionate, honestly wanted to help people. Just kind of a nut.
 
2009-10-22 01:36:55 PM  

doubled99: /professional grief counselor


When I was a kid, and a car full of teens was in a horrific and fatal accident, we would park the vehicle on the front lawn of the High School.
Message sent. No flowers, hugs, or the like.
 
2009-10-22 01:39:57 PM  

vudukungfu: doubled99: /professional grief counselor

When I was a kid, and a car full of teens was in a horrific and fatal accident, we would park the vehicle on the front lawn of the High School.
Message sent. No flowers, hugs, or the like.


They did something similar at my school. I have no idea, though, who scattered the mannequin pieces around the car. It certainly wasn't me.
 
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