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(The Sun)   Cops demand DNA sample from boy for throwing ketchup. You say "to⋅may⋅to," I say "disturbingly oppressive and overreacting nanny state"   (thesun.co.uk) divider line 85
    More: Asinine, Zach Cameron, nurses, road rage, sauce, Supt Des Keers, criminal records, McDonald, fingerprints  
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7066 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Oct 2009 at 2:34 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-10-19 01:12:33 AM  
FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?
 
2009-10-19 01:31:13 AM  
She blasted police for doing nothing when SHE was victim of a road rage attack, or when husband James, 43, was assaulted in a pub.


The perps were most likely adults who would refuse to be fingerprinted or to give a DNA sample to some self important pig without a legitimate arrest.

/Complain about lazy and incompetent cops? THAT'S AN ASBO!
 
2009-10-19 01:46:44 AM  
CruiserTwelve: FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?


Because he had already been producing DNA samples 6 times a month?
 
2009-10-19 02:07:22 AM  
Those crazy, crazy Brits.
 
2009-10-19 02:40:00 AM  
That kid looks like a David Koresh waiting to happen.
 
2009-10-19 02:40:52 AM  
Well, at least we know what positive liberalism looks like when it goes malignant.
 
2009-10-19 02:41:35 AM  
CruiserTwelve: FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?


I take it you've never heard the phrase "shags like a preacher's daughter"? If they wanted some of the boy's DNA, they probably just needed to swab certain parts of her anatomy.
 
2009-10-19 02:44:53 AM  
fta "He realises now it was a silly thing to do..."

I see. It sounds like you'll bee needing to fill out a form A-001 then. Press hard. Three copies.

img.photobucket.com
 
2009-10-19 02:52:38 AM  
Wait, they took a DNA sample from an underage male for throwing catsup?

Do they just sample everybody that gets within spitting distance of a cop?

Is the goal to generate a genetic profile of everyone in the U.K.?

It just seems wrong.
 
2009-10-19 02:55:56 AM  
CruiserTwelve: FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?


to give him a sense of having a moral high ground?
 
2009-10-19 02:57:36 AM  
CruiserTwelve: FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?


You serious? It is for context. If he was a punk who had been in juvenile detention a couple of times for stealing wallets and he was hanging out with a group of other hoodlums, you probably would not sympathize with him.
 
2009-10-19 03:00:06 AM  
CruiserTwelve: FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?


people that believe in god are better than you.
 
2009-10-19 03:00:41 AM  
Phil Moskowitz: Well, at least we know what positive liberalism looks like when it goes malignant.

Ahem.

OMG YERR SOFT ON CRIME! GONNA LET THE NEXT COLUMBINE HAPPEN! KIDS THESE DAYS DON'T RESPECT OUR VALUES! ZERO TOLERANCE!
 
2009-10-19 03:02:52 AM  
You can have my DNA when you jerk it from my cold, dead testicles.
 
2009-10-19 03:02:54 AM  
Finally! A picture of a real sachet.
 
2009-10-19 03:04:30 AM  
starsrift: You can have my DNA when you jerk it from my cold, dead testicles.

*snort snort*
 
2009-10-19 03:26:33 AM  
It was a poor decision on the kids part. In heinzsight, he'll regret it.
 
2009-10-19 03:26:48 AM  
Hey, McDonalds food and condiments are extremely hazardous to your health.

/Lost six pounds in 2 weeks by cutting out fructose and high fructose corn syrup.
 
2009-10-19 03:31:29 AM  
relcec: people that believe in god are better than you.

Dammit! I knew it! And here I was thinking all those promotions I missed out on were because of my weight.
 
2009-10-19 03:32:10 AM  
starsrift: You can have my DNA when you jerk it from my cold, dead testicles.

LAWL That deserves a total fark...gawd...
 
2009-10-19 03:39:34 AM  
Britney Spear's Speculum: Hey, McDonalds food and condiments are extremely hazardous to your health.

McD's ketchup is hazardous.
Toyota says my car's floor mats want to kill me.
Tomorrow I'm getting fries at the drive through.
/Flirtin' with disaster
 
2009-10-19 03:43:55 AM  
Notabunny: Tomorrow I'm getting fries at the drive through.

Funny enough, fries, hashbrowns, diet soda, coffee (black), and water are the only things that don't contain sugar...let alone HFCS.

The other interesting thing is that any and all fiber is removed from most of the food. It's that processing of the fiber out of the food that is part of, if not mostly the problem.
 
2009-10-19 03:54:19 AM  
Britney Spear's Speculum: The other interesting thing is that any and all fiber is removed from most of the food. It's that processing of the fiber out of the food that is part of, if not mostly the problem.

Really?

i242.photobucket.com

Sorry. Nothing personal. I just thought his toes were cute,
 
2009-10-19 04:15:56 AM  
He was told he still has no criminal record after the incident in Chatham, Kent, but fears that since his details are on file it could harm his job prospects if firms run a check.

Then he's some kind of paranoid moran. It's not going to be a DNA sample that hinders his job prospects.
 
2009-10-19 04:21:54 AM  
Shatner's Bassoon: He was told he still has no criminal record after the incident in Chatham, Kent, but fears that since his details are on file it could harm his job prospects if firms run a check.

Then he's some kind of paranoid moran. It's not going to be a DNA sample that hinders his job prospects.


The bible nudging or the fact he looks like this?
9gag.com
 
2009-10-19 04:36:14 AM  
Jebus Slaves: Is the goal to generate a genetic profile of everyone in the U.K.?

Yes. The UK already has the largest DNA database in the world by a decent margin and that's by actual size not per capita. If you get accused of a crime your dna goes on file even if you're never charged much less found innocent. In the US it only goes on file if you're actually found guilty of the crime and gets destroyed otherwise.
 
2009-10-19 04:42:57 AM  
img.thesun.co.uk


images.smarter.com
 
2009-10-19 04:58:51 AM  
Rakishi: Jebus Slaves: Is the goal to generate a genetic profile of everyone in the U.K.?

Yes.


Well, no. In England and Wales they can take a DNA sample from anyone who is arrested and if you're found innocent or don't get charged the sample can be stored in the database for 6 years (or up to 12 years if the alleged crime was of a sexual or violent nature). In Scotland samples are only taken if you're convicted of a crime, unless you're on trial for a sexual crime, in which case they can keep your sample for up to 5 years after acquittal. There are no plans to expand the database to include anyone who isn't arrested, so the goal is not to generate a profile of everyone in the UK.
 
2009-10-19 05:02:32 AM  
For what it's worth... He was taken in because the biatch of a girl reported him to the police. It may have only been a small pot of ketchup but it still falls under the grounds of common assault.

In these circumstances the police will take fingerprints and DNA as part of process. The kid, bible student or not, has been treated the same as everyone else taken in for questioning by the police.
 
2009-10-19 05:05:41 AM  
lajimi: She blasted police for doing nothing when SHE was victim of a road rage attack, or when husband James, 43, was assaulted in a pub.


The perps were most likely adults who would refuse to be fingerprinted or to give a DNA sample to some self important pig without a legitimate arrest.

/Complain about lazy and incompetent cops? THAT'S AN ASBO!


Yeah...

DNA sampling is taken for all suspects as a matter of procedure, no exceptions (hence the 'outrage' in this story). Failure to 'consent' to give a sample is an offence.

As to why they probably weren't investigated; if you've no concrete way of identifying the people involved (no witnesses who could ID him, couldn't remember numberplate etc.), it's a waste of time and money investigating for minor offences. They could get three or four officers spending a week chasing up potential eye witnesses and on the offchance they do find the people responsible, they'd be looking at either a caution or a small fine at most.
 
2009-10-19 05:23:48 AM  
I can think of 57 reasons why this sucks. Lucky she got hit with ketchup and not DNA.
 
2009-10-19 05:24:00 AM  
Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student -

WTF???

Whinny christer! Hey bible boy! You ever hear of zit cream or controlling your rage impulses? Doesn't the bible teach you not to throw ketchup? It must be in there someplace.

She blasted police for doing nothing when SHE was victim of a road rage attack, or when husband James, 43, was assaulted in a pub.

Seems like the whole world is just waiting to cock punch that family. I wonder why. I bet they're tons of fun at parties.
 
2009-10-19 05:40:46 AM  
Rakishi: Jebus Slaves: Is the goal to generate a genetic profile of everyone in the U.K.?

Yes. The UK already has the largest DNA database in the world by a decent margin and that's by actual size not per capita. If you get accused of a crime your dna goes on file even if you're never charged much less found innocent. In the US it only goes on file if you're actually found guilty of the crime and gets destroyed otherwise.


That's pretty much the size of things, though the practice has been ruled illegal by the European Court of Human Rights. (new window)
 
2009-10-19 05:45:40 AM  
starsrift: You can have my DNA when you jerk it from my cold, dead testicles.

www.movieline.com
 
2009-10-19 05:51:18 AM  
Oh, you said cold. Nevermind then
/link
 
2009-10-19 07:06:37 AM  
img269.imageshack.us
 
2009-10-19 07:22:42 AM  
CruiserTwelve: FTA: Zach Cameron, 15 - a twice-weekly bible student - lobbed the tiny pot of sauce at a girl diner for making "nasty" comments when he took the daughter of his pastor for a burger.

Why are these things relevant?


Because Christians think of themselves as superior to all others, therefor the emphasis on those things was added to make clear that the person (allegedly) guilty of simple assault is just a victim here.
 
2009-10-19 07:58:46 AM  
img.thesun.co.uk

that's a guy?
 
2009-10-19 08:14:23 AM  
bongmiester: that's a guy?

Oddly enough I used to know a Farker who could be this guy's twin.
 
2009-10-19 08:32:54 AM  
I imagine very few farkers were any more attractive than this guy when they were his age.

Also, bears shiat in the woods.


/Or was it in the pope?
 
2009-10-19 08:33:38 AM  
commodore-64-games.com
 
2009-10-19 08:40:33 AM  
Shatner's Bassoon: Rakishi: Jebus Slaves: Is the goal to generate a genetic profile of everyone in the U.K.?

Yes.

Well, no. In England and Wales they can take a DNA sample from anyone who is arrested and if you're found innocent or don't get charged the sample can be stored in the database for 6 years (or up to 12 years if the alleged crime was of a sexual or violent nature). In Scotland samples are only taken if you're convicted of a crime, unless you're on trial for a sexual crime, in which case they can keep your sample for up to 5 years after acquittal. There are no plans to expand the database to include anyone who isn't arrested, so the goal is not to generate a profile of everyone in the UK.


One part of me thinks this is fine, because DNA matches from a crime scene is worthless unless the perp is a repeat offender who has been found guilty of a crime at an earlier time, with a ensuing DNA profile being established. (DNA only becomes valuable when you have an idea of a suspect could be.)

On the other hand, this is a complete and utter waste of money. DNA profiling is definitely not free, and some crimes really isn't worth the total cost of an investigation. Not because of selective justice, simply because investigating and prosecuting EVERY crime committed in a country at all times, would lead to about one fourth of the population being employed in police-related work, with either drastic cuts in budgets for all other branches or wild tax-increases or both.

And, although I like the idea of an extensive DNA database being available to the police, I do not necessarily like the idea of an extensive DNA database being available to the police. It's a concept that is easy to like when you imagine that only the bad guys will be caught, but it's a bad idea when you consider the fact that a cigarette butt dropped in a back-alley 20 minutes prior to a murder taking place in the same location, might become a piece of forensic evidence that suddenly places you at the scene of a crime, possibly making you a suspect.
 
2009-10-19 08:43:25 AM  
You know who ELSE loved policies like these?
 
2009-10-19 08:46:12 AM  
Cornwell: [Long post]

What he said.
 
2009-10-19 08:56:23 AM  
Was it still in the bottle at the time?
 
2009-10-19 09:01:33 AM  
lajimi: You know who ELSE loved policies like these?

Homeland Security? At least when it comes to "gather as much data on people as you legally can, and then some if we have any reason to suspect them, such as being brown or having a funny last name."

/If that was a Godwin, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind it.
 
2009-10-19 09:24:49 AM  
Cornwell: lajimi: You know who ELSE loved policies like these?

Homeland Security? At least when it comes to "gather as much data on people as you legally can, and then some if we have any reason to suspect them, such as being brown or having a funny last name."

/If that was a Godwin, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind it.


Historical relevance.

And don't forget that many Americans were making appeals to Godwin when the PATRIOT Acts were being discussed and after they were passed. We don't like creepy, unnecessary, and wasteful authoritarianism in any government, especially our own.
 
2009-10-19 09:31:47 AM  
Crotchrocket Slim: Historical relevance.

And don't forget that many Americans were making appeals to Godwin when the PATRIOT Acts were being discussed and after they were passed. We don't like creepy, unnecessary, and wasteful authoritarianism in any government, especially our own.


A big ole' THIS

Slippery Slope is NOT a logical fallacy when applied to any government - we've got a few thousand years of history to back this up.
 
2009-10-19 10:06:16 AM  
Osama is still free, how about you?
 
2009-10-19 10:18:30 AM  
TsukasaK: Slippery Slope is NOT a logical fallacy when applied to any government - we've got a few thousand years of history to back this up.

Oh, the slippery slope is still a logical fallacy. It's just that some people have forgotten the difference between illogical and incorrect: there's no logic to the slippery slope, but it pretty much always happens anyway.

The same can be said for reductio ad absurdum (which WWII pretty much was, complete with cartoon-style mad dictator bent on world domination) and many other popular fallacies. Perhaps, when speaking of humans, we shouldn't be restricting ourselves only to that which is logical. It's a good tool, to be sure, but like all tools it is incomplete, working best as one tool among many rather than treating everything as the same kind of problem.
 
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