Paging shellym to thread 4691067.
shellym, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

Aulus: What twins might look like:

Cute munchkins btw. Yours?

Aulus: ravenlore: Cute munchkins btw. Yours?

My grandkids, at age 3½ weeks. They were born almost a month early, naturally conceived. They are now four months old.

Jackson on the left, Freyja on the right.

Awesome. Congrats!

Has any research been done to determine if autism rates are tied to the increase in multiple births? I read TFA and all sorts of health and brain development issues are related to multiple births, so maybe this trend is adding to the rise in cases of autism? Or maybe it's just thimersol?

DjangoStonereaver: As the husband of a twin, let me say that anyone who has sexual fantasies
involving twins is fantasizing about being a party to incest.

That oughta take the polish off the wood.

people didn't realize that before?

hmph. my youngest are twins. conceived the old fashioned way.

Plus, they haven't won the World Series since 1987.


wait, what?

Twins are cool, but Jon and Kate and their 8 all look tarded. Especially Jon.

/wait, I think their twins are the only cute part of the entire clusterfu*k of a family.

In one year, the Masteras spent 23 percent of their income on fertility treatments.

Wow. Maybe, just maybe, it really isn't worth it at that point. There are plenty of orphaned and foster kids out there that need good homes. Maybe you should spend 23% of your income on them instead.

At this point, you're really just being selfish and obsessive.

Where might one find pictures of these hot lesbian twins? Just so I can decide for myself if they are evil or not.

/What my bunk is where I make all of my important decisions.

I'm not a religious guy, or anything close to it -- but, colloquially, if you have to go through all that sh*t just to make a baby, or two -- than maybe the god's plan this time around, was to exclude you from the club, no?

DjangoStonereaver: As the husband of a twin, let me say that anyone who has sexual fantasies
involving twins is fantasizing about being a party to incest.

That oughta take the polish off the wood.

Silly boy, don't you know that incest is wincest?

biglot: I'm not a religious guy, or anything close to it -- but, colloquially, if you have to go through all that sh*t just to make a baby, or two -- than maybe the god's plan this time around, was to exclude you from the club, no?

Thanks, go fark yourself.

Breathes a sign of relief..

biglot
I'm not a religious guy, or anything close to it -- but, colloquially, if you have to go through all that sh*t just to make a baby, or two -- than maybe the god's plan this time around, was to exclude you from the club, no?

Errk
If you can't have babies without a bunch of artificial crap then farking adopt!

QFT, on both counts.

I don't really consider siblings "twins" unless they are identical. Fraternal twins are simply a small litter of humans.

austerity101: In one year, the Masteras spent 23 percent of their income on fertility treatments.

Wow. Maybe, just maybe, it really isn't worth it at that point. There are plenty of orphaned and foster kids out there that need good homes. Maybe you should spend 23% of your income on them instead.

At this point, you're really just being selfish and obsessive.

How much money do you donate to supporting orphans? How many kids have you adopted or fostered? if those numbers are zero or thereabouts, you should probably shut your trap about how other people spend their money.

DjangoStonereaver: As the husband of a twin, let me say that anyone who has sexual fantasies
involving twins is fantasizing about being a party to incest.

That oughta take the polish off the wood.

Not even remotely. Possibly even more polish.

biglot: "maybe the god's plan this time around, was to exclude you from the club, no?"

...because everything that happens in life is part of someone else's plan, therefore something one must accept? Family planning and choices are the devil's work? What about taking a Tylenol to remedy a headache - is this tampering with "the god's plan"?

If there is a God, he/she wants you to be happy, and to spread happiness in the world. How you do that is up to you.

It's called evolution, and you're farking it up. By using technology to grant life to something that was meant a) to never have been conceived in the first place AND b) to never have survived birth, you're introducing people into the gene pool that have no place being there.

True Value: Has any research been done to determine if autism rates are tied to the increase in multiple births? I read TFA and all sorts of health and brain development issues are related to multiple births, so maybe this trend is adding to the rise in cases of autism? Or maybe it's just thimersol?

I don't know. How many siblings do you have?

Twins freak me out because i know if I was a twin, I would abuse the power to a rediculous level.

"LAWLZ IT WASN'T ME!!! "

MycroftHolmes: austerity101: In one year, the Masteras spent 23 percent of their income on fertility treatments.

Wow. Maybe, just maybe, it really isn't worth it at that point. There are plenty of orphaned and foster kids out there that need good homes. Maybe you should spend 23% of your income on them instead.

At this point, you're really just being selfish and obsessive.

How much money do you donate to supporting orphans? How many kids have you adopted or fostered? if those numbers are zero or thereabouts, you should probably shut your trap about how other people spend their money.

You sound pregnant by in-vitro fertilization.

But, seriously. I'm not trying to make kids, nor do I want to raise them myself. Also, I'm a single, poor-ass college student, so suggesting I rear another living thing is a bit absurd at this point. People can spend money any way they want ... but when you're willing to go through such extreme lengths, maybe it's time to sit back and wonder, "Maybe there are better/more productive/more helpful ways for me to spend my time/money as far as children/not children go."

And I've said it before--I defy anyone to give me a non-selfish reason for having kids. I'm talking individual cases here, not this "If we ALL stopped having kids, humans would die out" BS. These aren't Biblical times--we're not going to run out of kids any time soon.

/Hawt.
/But not hot.

Having a family had been an elusive goal for Jeff and Kerry Mastera, a blur of more than two years, dozens of doctor visits and four tries with a procedure called intrauterine insemination

Ever heard of adoption, you selfish bastards?

ok, the website is farked for me, can someone post the article here?

Gaylord Fister: It's called evolution, and you're farking it up. By using technology to grant life to something that was meant a) to never have been conceived in the first place AND b) to never have survived birth, you're introducing people into the gene pool that have no place being there.

You seem to be laboring under the impression that evolution has a meaning, an intention, or some kind of will. It does not. Evolution is a description of a natural phenomena, nothing more. There's no way to say that something was "meant to be conceived" or not.

In fact, one might argue that technology and, by extension, IVF, are very much a part of human evolution, just like the elaborate and advanced colonies are a part of termite evolution.

Human evolution is no longer based on natural selection. It's now almost exclusively a matter of self-selection. We choose who to mate with (though, granted, the choice is made in part on baser instincts which give us some preference towards more genetically-fit mates), we choose whether to have kids or not, and we have the ability to overcome many physical and genetic limitations.

Asmor: a natural phenomenaon

FTFM

IonBeam2: Ever heard of adoption, you selfish bastards?

jayhawk88: Easier said than done sometimes. Few points here:

- Adoption isn't free. The adoption of an infant, even an international one, is probably going to cost you about as much as a typical IVF, perhaps even more in most cases. Takes a lot longer too, they tell you to figure on a year at least. And then you have to hope the birth mother doesn't have a last minute change of heart and decide to keep the kid, at which point, chances are you are screwed out of not only the child you thought you were going to get, but a ass-ton of money as well. Adoption of older children is of course easier (and probably cheaper), but this is something a lot of people are not ready/willing to do for obvious reasons.

- Most people do not just jump straight into $25k IVF procedures. There are a lot of "Chlomed Kids" out there, born to mothers who were able to get pregnant just taking some fertility meds. After that they do IUI's, which again has a certain success rate. By the time you start looking at IVF's you're probably about 2 years and $10-20k into the process anyway, and the thinking for a lot of couples is "in for a penny, in for a pound.

/That said - well, quoted - will likely adopt.
//If the government ever decides that I'm a candidate, anyway.

Errk: If you can't have babies without a bunch of artificial crap then farking adopt!

Agreed. There are a lot of potential parents out there that simply can't have kids. I know this sucks and I feel bad for them, but there's probably a reason for it. There are plenty of little guys out there that really need a home, so why spend a fortune on gambling with your body chemistry?

clusterfrak: Where might one find pictures of these hot lesbian twins? Just so I can decide for myself if they are evil or not.

/What my bunk is where I make all of my important decisions.

Step1: GIS
Step2: Turn off Safe Search
Setp3: Search for Lesbian Twins
Step4: Fap

I am amazed at how people are so desperate to have kids in today's society that they don't explore ALL their options. In simple truth, receiving all the infertility medications and procedures is easier than adoption. I don't know any adoption facility that would adopt out to the likes of Octo-mom or the Jon and Kate plus 8 people. To receive the infertility drugs, you don't have to go through any kind of psychological/emotional/monetary screening at all, you just have to medically able to have a baby.

That being said, if I found out I was infertile, or would have a difficult time having a kid, when I decide I am ready to have kids (which is NOWHERE close to now) the first place I would look would be adoption. If that didn't pan out, then I'd be the crazy lady with tons of dogs. Why put your body through something that it wasn't designed to do? Why risk having a kid with lots of issues when there are some perfectly healthy/normal kids who want/need a home? Selfish people.

/I can say that b/c I am selfish, which is why I don't want kids, I like my ME time way too much.

jayhawk88: Errk: If you can't have babies without a bunch of artificial crap then farking adopt!

Easier said than done sometimes. Few points here:

- Adoption isn't free. The adoption of an infant, even an international one, is probably going to cost you about as much as a typical IVF, perhaps even more in most cases.


Swing and a miss! The adoption of my kids was very close to free, and would have been *entirely* free if the current tax credit structure was around for #1.

International costs *much* more than domestic.

Adoption does not have to be expensive- stay away from private lawyers and a lot of foreign countries, especially those with "white" children.

Takes a lot longer too, they tell you to figure on a year at least.

Biology lesson time. How long does it take to create a human infant? No peeking now....

Timewise I've seen people get a kid in *3 days*. Rare, but it happens. #1 for us was 18 months start to finish- longer than normal, but not horrible. I'll admit we were unlucky with #2 (two recinds) and it took about 24, but we weren't pushing either.

And then you have to hope the birth mother doesn't have a last minute change of heart and decide to keep the kid, at which point, chances are you are screwed out of not only the child you thought you were going to get, but a ass-ton of money as well.


No reputable agency will charge you if the birthmother recinds. Ours, in fact, makes the birthmother appear with a certified check for the cost of foster care for the X days you had the child if they were placed in your home.

Yes, birthmothers do change their minds. It happens- it happened to us three times in fact. (Albeit all three times before we picked up the kid) It sucks for the adoptive parents, but it's an absolutely necessary safety valve in an incredibly emotional process. (Beware states with *very* short rescind times- it approaches abuse IMHO)

Then again, the normal way isn't exactly painless either- ask anyone who's had a miscarriage.

Adoption of older children is of course easier (and probably cheaper), but this is something a lot of people are not ready/willing to do for obvious reasons.

One of the guys who works for me is going with this right now- it's taking far longer than I expected. I'm kind of bummed that CPS can't get their act together. Still will be free with the tax credit.

- Most people do not just jump straight into $25k IVF procedures. There are a lot of "Chlomed Kids" out there, born to mothers who were able to get pregnant just taking some fertility meds. After that they do IUI's, which again has a certain success rate. By the time you start looking at IVF's you're probably about 2 years and $10-20k into the process anyway, and the thinking for a lot of couples is "in for a penny, in for a pound".

Yup, and we got to see some of those when the pounds were gone too. One of the couples in my group had emptied their bank accounts, remortgaged the house and were about to empty their retirement accounts when they came to their senses. They had a kid in less than 9 months.

We got off that train early when the Clomed wasn't working. Too many people get caught up in the ever increasing technology of the process and forget what the end goal really is.

/Father of identical girls, born at 38 weeks. My wife = Teh Awesome.

Grats- you're one of the lucky ones. But please don't go spreading misinformation around about adoption- lots of others aren't as lucky as you.

Obligatory:

Link (new window)


/unable to have kids
//am now choosing to be childless
///downloading like puppies is not natural