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(Toronto Star)   "f you're eating organic turkey this weekend, savour it, because by next Thanksgiving it may be easier to buy crack cocaine in Ontario than a drug-free bird"   (thestar.com) divider line 40
    More: Strange, flavors, eating  
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2225 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Oct 2009 at 8:45 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



40 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2009-10-10 09:09:13 AM
Organic turkey sucks.
 
2009-10-10 09:14:18 AM
That's funny, it's pretty easy to get crack in Ontario. It's the provincial flower!
 
2009-10-10 09:36:44 AM
wackyiraqi.com
 
2009-10-10 09:57:26 AM
_k
 
2009-10-10 10:07:40 AM
ghare: Organic turkey sucks.

Poultry, in general, is overrated as a foodstuff, but turkey is the most overrated foodstuff ever. Seriously, it's the blandest, boringest dish one can make. Pretty much the only way to make it good is to deep fry it, but that's cheating- everything is good deep fried.

Duck is the best poultry to eat. Delicious.
 
2009-10-10 10:17:02 AM
Every time somebody mentions organic food, I think of this:

imgs.xkcd.com

/Chemistry jokes are golden
//Au, right!
 
2009-10-10 11:09:35 AM
Why would I savor organic turkey more than regular turkey?

Oh, right, because some people with more money than sense are under the impression that "organic" means "better" when, in reality, 99.9% of the world can't tell the damn difference.
 
2009-10-10 11:24:50 AM
You are free to buy whatever you want, but before you pay a premium on a "free range" bird, maybe you should visit the farm. In the US (I know TFA is from America's hat), all the bird needs to be deemed free range is access to the outside. This means a normal poultry house with a small door that leads to a fenced area between the houses. The birds almost never go outside, they prefer it inside.
 
2009-10-10 11:53:20 AM
Archae hippy: The birds almost never go outside, they prefer it inside.

Further, more traditional "free range" farming tends to have a much higher body count due to predators and injury. Farmers abandoned free range farming because it meant a lot more needless death.
 
2009-10-10 11:55:42 AM
f you too subby.
 
2009-10-10 12:13:56 PM
I will say, the years that I've gotten both a Canadian Thanksgiving (this coming Monday) and a US Thanksgiving were good years. I'm willing to trade in Halloween for a second Thanksgiving. Very possibly Christmas, too.
 
2009-10-10 12:33:37 PM
Turkeys, being made of meat, are organic by definition. Unless you are eating that roboturkey from ATHF.
 
2009-10-10 01:38:33 PM
Fano: Turkeys, being made of meat, are organic by definition. Unless you are eating that roboturkey from ATHF.

So you like eating assorted chemicals, antibiotics, and synthetic hormones with your food?
 
2009-10-10 01:39:16 PM
Farming is really a catch 22 situation. To be viable commercially you have to expand and make tiny amounts on huge volumes. But people scream about the size of the farms and the way things are raised. Most people aren't willing to pay the added cost to change things. If domestic farmers are forced to spend more money to pacify the complainers, the prices go up and foriegn products flood in.

It's screwy
 
2009-10-10 01:52:54 PM
Handsome animal, I must say.
 
2009-10-10 02:00:12 PM
Alacritous: So you like eating assorted chemicals, antibiotics, and synthetic hormones with your food?

Yes.
 
2009-10-10 02:04:27 PM
My dad recently started raising organic turkeys, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2009-10-10 02:23:34 PM
Hey. Did you say "f you"?
 
2009-10-10 02:23:35 PM
I know that it's typically illegal to sell wild game, but could one give up a nice hen in exchange for a partial sponsorship of their hunting trip?
 
2009-10-10 02:58:58 PM
Every year at xmas, the whole family gets together - it requires 2 turkeys, each is procured by one side of the family. One usually gets a frozen Canada grade A, the other gets a mostly-organic (natural feed, free-range, no medicines).

The organic tastes better. Quite a bit better. The frozen is bland and has a slighly spongy texture. The free-range has a, well, turkey-er flavour; the meat is dense and well grained. I will say that the frozen is usually a bit moister though, marginally.

Same goes for organic/free-range eggs vs. factory farmed. Factory farmed eggs taste like chemicals.
 
2009-10-10 03:32:23 PM
t3knomanser: Alacritous: So you like eating assorted chemicals, antibiotics, and synthetic hormones with your food?

Yes.


Than you are a moron. The organic does taste better. My brother lives in Kalamazoo and gets us turkeys from a buddy's farm. They are superior in taste, texture, and they also cost less than the store bought ones.
 
2009-10-10 03:33:16 PM
t3knomanser: ghare: Organic turkey sucks.

Poultry, in general, is overrated as a foodstuff, but turkey is the most overrated foodstuff ever. Seriously, it's the blandest, boringest dish one can make. Pretty much the only way to make it good is to deep fry it, but that's cheating- everything is good deep fried.

Duck is the best poultry to eat. Delicious.


Opinions =/= facts.


/do you know what they did to that chicken?
//no but it's delicious
 
2009-10-10 03:34:44 PM
chicagogasman: Than you are a moron. The organic does taste better. My brother lives in Kalamazoo and gets us turkeys from a buddy's farm. They are superior in taste, texture, and they also cost less than the store bought ones.

There's a difference between free range and organic. Free range, free grazing meat is delicious. You can still run an organic factory farm.
 
2009-10-10 04:04:11 PM
So.... since it's not at all hard to buy crack cocaine in Ontario, I guess organic turkeys will also still be available everywhere?

I've had great organic turkey, and I've had great traditional turkey too. It's how it's prepared that's important, not whether or not the turkey was raised under some nearly meaningless arbitrary standards.
 
2009-10-10 04:30:59 PM
Bored Horde: There's a difference between free range and organic. Free range, free grazing meat is delicious. You can still run an organic factory farm.

For meat to be certified organic, it has to be free range.

In the US, the National Organic Program is administered by the USDA. See Production and Handling Preamble


The producer of an organic livestock operation must establish and maintain livestock living conditions for the animals under his or her care which accommodate the health and natural behavior of the livestock. The producer must provide access to the outdoors, shade, shelter, exercise areas, fresh air, and direct sunlight suitable to the species, its stage of production, the climate, and the environment. This requirement includes access to pasture for ruminant animals. The producer must also provide appropriate clean, dry bedding, and, if the bedding is typically consumed by the species, it must comply with applicable organic feed requirements. The producer must provide shelter designed to allow for the natural maintenance, comfort level, and opportunity to exercise appropriate to the species.



In Canada, it's Canadian Organic Growers, who maintain the standards for the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

Livestock Living Conditions
6.8
6.8.1 The operator of an organic livestock operation shall establish and maintain animal living-conditions that accommodate the health and natural behaviour of all animals, including
a. access to the outdoors, shade, shelter, rotational pasture, exercise areas, fresh air and natural daylight suitable to the species, its stage of production, the climate and the environment;
b. access to fresh water and high-quality feed in accordance with the needs of the animal;
c. sufficient space and freedom to lie down in full lateral recumbency, stand up, stretch their limbs and turn freely, and express normal patterns of behaviour;
d. space allowances appropriate to local conditions, feed production capacity, livestock health, nutrient balance of livestock and soils, and environmental impact;
e. production techniques that foster the long-term health of livestock, especially where animals are required to provide a high level of production or rate of growth;
f. appropriate resting and bedding areas in accordance with the needs of the animal;
g. livestock housing shall have non-slip floors. The floor shall not be entirely of slatted or grid construction. Buildings shall have areas for bedding and resting that are sufficiently large, solidly built, comfortable, clean and dry. They shall be covered with a thick layer of dry bedding that can absorb excrement. Where bedding material is typically consumed by the animal species, it shall conform to the feed requirements of this standard;
h. the outdoor stocking density of pasture and runs shall be low enough to prevent soil degradation by the livestock and overgrazing of vegetation.

6.8.2 Herbivores shall have access to pasture, weather permitting. The certification body may grant exceptions for access of bulls to pasture and for the final fattening phase.

6.8.3 The operator of an organic poultry operation shall establish and maintain poultry living conditions that accommodate the health and natural behaviour of poultry:
a. The keeping of poultry in cages is not permitted.
b. Poultry shall be reared in open-range conditions and have free access to pasture, open-air runs, waterways and other exercise areas subject to the species, weather, parasites, predators and ground conditions and, whenever possible, shall have such access for at least one third of their life. Open-air runs shall
i. be covered with vegetation and periodically left empty (and seeded if necessary) to allow vegetation to re-grow to prevent disease build-up;
 
2009-10-10 04:40:39 PM
www.lifeatcollege.com
 
2009-10-10 07:52:13 PM
What is an Ontario?
 
2009-10-10 08:17:45 PM
chicagogasman: Than you are a moron.

I'm a moron for preferring food be plentiful? A moron because, despite my comfortable lifestyle, I'm not so bourgeois and entitled so as to demand that farmers voluntarily waste resources, reduce crop and livestock yields, and then pass those costs onto consumers and the environment?

Also: organic food tastes like food. Freshness is better than organic: non-organically farmed corn from the farm ten miles away tastes better than organically grown corn from a hundred miles away.

But, as with all food, it's less about the quality of the ingredients and more about the deftness of the preparation.
 
2009-10-10 08:52:12 PM
Bored Horde: chicagogasman: Than you are a moron. The organic does taste better. My brother lives in Kalamazoo and gets us turkeys from a buddy's farm. They are superior in taste, texture, and they also cost less than the store bought ones.

There's a difference between free range and organic. Free range, free grazing meat is delicious. You can still run an organic factory farm.


They are free grazing.
 
2009-10-10 08:53:16 PM
t3knomanser: chicagogasman: Than you are a moron.

I'm a moron for preferring food be plentiful? A moron because, despite my comfortable lifestyle, I'm not so bourgeois and entitled so as to demand that farmers voluntarily waste resources, reduce crop and livestock yields, and then pass those costs onto consumers and the environment?

Also: organic food tastes like food. Freshness is better than organic: non-organically farmed corn from the farm ten miles away tastes better than organically grown corn from a hundred miles away.

But, as with all food, it's less about the quality of the ingredients and more about the deftness of the preparation.


and yes you are still a moron
 
2009-10-10 08:54:46 PM
t3knomanser: But, as with all food, it's less about the quality of the ingredients and more about the deftness of the preparation.

I would argue that point. The best food is made from fresh ingredients, preparation comes second (but that is not to say that it is not important).

Generally, I'll buy organic if it's with %20 of the price of non. I'll take local non-organic over imported organic. Fresh is best and will win most decisions.
 
2009-10-10 09:33:08 PM
t3knomanser: chicagogasman: Than you are a moron.

I'm a moron for preferring food be plentiful? A moron because, despite my comfortable lifestyle, I'm not so bourgeois and entitled so as to demand that farmers voluntarily waste resources, reduce crop and livestock yields, and then pass those costs onto consumers and the environment?

Also: organic food tastes like food. Freshness is better than organic: non-organically farmed corn from the farm ten miles away tastes better than organically grown corn from a hundred miles away.

But, as with all food, it's less about the quality of the ingredients and more about the deftness of the preparation.


What's with the hate? If I want to pay more money for food that is available without additional and/or unnecessary antibiotics, pesticides or hormones then who are you to even care, let alone pass judgment?
 
2009-10-10 10:44:08 PM
ButrBiscut: If I want to pay more money for food that is available without additional and/or unnecessary antibiotics, pesticides or hormones then who are you to even care, let alone pass judgment?

Read the thread. I'm responding to people calling me a moron for being perfectly content with food that was raised in a manner so as to provide the most food possible, with current technology.

As for judgment, I'm sorry, but the craze for organic food is bourgeois entitlement. That's fine- I engage in bourgeois entitlement in my electronics purchases. Christ, that's why I go to work every day- to support my bourgeois and entitled lifestyle. Organic food is a bourgeois entitlement that I consider irresponsible, which is why I hate engaging in it.

Sadly, it's impossible to find food not labeled organic that isn't also junkfood these days.
 
2009-10-10 10:55:41 PM
If you want truly organic turkey, go shoot a wild one yourself. Sure the drumsticks won't be as big as the store bought birds, but the breast meat tastes better than any Butterball, especially from a big ol' Tom.
 
2009-10-10 11:45:25 PM
t3knomanser: ButrBiscut: If I want to pay more money for food that is available without additional and/or unnecessary antibiotics, pesticides or hormones then who are you to even care, let alone pass judgment?

Read the thread. I'm responding to people calling me a moron for being perfectly content with food that was raised in a manner so as to provide the most food possible, with current technology.

As for judgment, I'm sorry, but the craze for organic food is bourgeois entitlement. That's fine- I engage in bourgeois entitlement in my electronics purchases. Christ, that's why I go to work every day- to support my bourgeois and entitled lifestyle. Organic food is a bourgeois entitlement that I consider irresponsible, which is why I hate engaging in it.

Sadly, it's impossible to find food not labeled organic that isn't also junkfood these days.


If larger food yield comes at the expense of the public health and/or the sustainability of the production process, then larger yields aren't in the public interest at all over the long-term.

Also, it's not the "organic" label which is the problem, but the "natural" label. The public too often assumes that "natural" and "organic" are interchangeable terms, even though they are very different. The food production and manufacturing lobbies are very invested in keeping the public misinformed.

The USDA has the National Organic Program division, and the NOP has very strict standards as to what the "organic" label means on various foods. The NOP homepage is here (pops). A helpful and concise PDF about organic labeling is available from the NOP here (also pops).

It is hardly bourgeois entitlement which motivates me to seek out and purchase organic foods. Rather, it is a combination of self-interest, a genuine concern for environmental and agricultural sustainability, and a concern for population health sustainability that all factor in to how I spend my food budget.

It may be bourgeois, but it is most certainly not entitlement.
 
2009-10-11 01:00:23 AM
www.channel4.com

Gordon Ramsay isn't worried so much about raising his turkeys organic as he is about naming them after other TV chefs he detests.
 
2009-10-11 10:34:23 AM
Alacritous: Fano: Turkeys, being made of meat, are organic by definition. Unless you are eating that roboturkey from ATHF.

So you like eating assorted chemicals, antibiotics, and synthetic hormones with your food?


Oh shiat! You say there are chemicals in my food? Oh lawdy!

Take your pseudoscience elsewhere, Poindexter.
 
2009-10-11 11:46:45 AM
bittenandbound.com

Not a drug-free bird.
 
2009-10-11 06:10:27 PM
chicagogasman: and yes you are still a moron

Let me guess - you are a liberal who brands yourself as a very intelligent and open-minded person, one who is tolerant of other people's opinions.

ButrBiscut: Rather, it is a combination of self-interest, a genuine concern for environmental and agricultural sustainability, and a concern for population health sustainability that all factor in to how I spend my food budget.

Out of curiosity, how do you define "agricultural sustainability?" And "public health sustainability?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am assuming you believe that non-organic food is unhealthy and/or poisonous. That would qualify as a huge citation needed. For farm workers (who handle pesticides and insecticides in slightly higher concentrations than the consumer), a study in the Journal of Industrial Medicine in January of 2004 by Calvert et al. found a rate of "serious health effects related to pesticide or insecticide usage" of 0.7 people per 1,000,000 workers. If they HANDLE these pesticides, what is the risk of serious health effects to regular people? Is that risk greater than the health risks of eating canned or premade foods because they can't afford fresh produce?

I think if you look at the scientific evidence concerning the adverse health effects of non-organic foods you will find your assumptions vastly incorrect. Of course you could always just ignore the science and keep bleating away whilst throwing your money at "organic" food producers and sellers who are making a fortune from your ignorance.
 
2009-10-11 10:30:06 PM
You may do whatever you like to the turkey...


But keep farkin' that chicken!
 
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