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(Yahoo)   USC's tradition of choking spills over into the weight room   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 99
    More: Scary, Stafon Johnson, USC, weight room, Pete Carroll, Southern California, traditions, Trojans, medical  
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2052 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Sep 2009 at 11:15 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-09-29 12:36:18 PM  
GQueue: Raccoon Dog: Have you noticed that 225 is like the idiot line on the bench press?

I bet 225 has injured thousands of times more people than say, 365 has.

And I'll bet its status as the NFL Scouting Combine bench press reps weight has something to do with it.


You know it. Its the look (Yeah! 4 plates!) combined with the machismo effect (I CAN LIFT WHAT AN NFL DUDE CAN I AM SO MANLY!).
 
2009-09-29 12:37:54 PM  
I've always wondered why on free weights like this, you can't have chains mounted ceiling to the bar that stop the bar say 6 inches above the bench. Yeah, you may have a spotter, but you aren't gonna stop something like that coming down. It hits the chains and stops before you get crushed.

/runs to the patent office
 
2009-09-29 12:38:43 PM  
halfof33: As I am on my way to the gym in 28 minutes, I am really getting a kick out of these replies.

You're two minutes off-schedule! For shame!
 
2009-09-29 12:39:21 PM  
AdolfOliverPanties: USC has been the best program in college football this decade.

Florida disagrees. Yes, 2 championships DOES trump perennially winning a weaker conference.
 
2009-09-29 12:41:01 PM  
"...who was standing 10 feet away..." does not a spotter make.
 
2009-09-29 12:41:51 PM  
mkonen.com

Perhaps he should read a copy of this next time. Bar won't slip out of your hands if your form isn't shiat.
 
2009-09-29 12:44:11 PM  
The old grease the barbell in the weight room trick.
I thought that the dirty tricks college in the Frisco bay area was Stanford, but I guess when Oregon stomped Cal last weekend they got a little mean.

/not insinuating anything, of course.
 
2009-09-29 12:45:10 PM  
JohnBigBootay: Florida disagrees. Yes, 2 championships DOES trump perennially winning a weaker conference.

Perennially being awarded spots by voters doesn't make you better. See, the reason I was okay with the BCS is because people at least acknowledged that there was no true champion and that it was all a sham.

BTW, that "weaker conference" has a winning record over every conference in the nation this decade.

BTW, by the standard that USC "chokes", every program in America chokes.
 
2009-09-29 12:45:45 PM  
I agree, its not the spotters fault. I've been benching with the same guy the last 3 years, and we both know when to put the hands near the bar and when to let the other guy push through. Neither one of us would be able to react in the split second to save it from slipping out of another guys hands, though.
 
2009-09-29 12:46:34 PM  
GQueue: And I'll bet its status as the NFL Scouting Combine bench press reps weight has something to do with it.

There's that, and possibly that any dude can go in there and bench press 135 in the matter of a few months of proper training at most, but 225 is the next big plate level up.

I guess it's a psychological thing.

Quasar: I don't know why some of you guys think the spotter should have been able to stop it.

Lack of spotting experience, probably.
 
2009-09-29 12:47:23 PM  
varmitydog: The old grease the barbell in the weight room trick.
I thought that the dirty tricks college in the Frisco bay area was Stanford, but I guess when Oregon stomped Cal last weekend they got a little mean.

/not insinuating anything, of course.


Miss South Carolina has a Fark account?
 
2009-09-29 12:47:24 PM  
As a voice teacher, upon hearing about this accident last night, I cringed. Oh yes, I cringed.

/owowowowowowowoowowowowowowo
//hope he gets better soon
 
2009-09-29 12:50:32 PM  
Raccoon Dog: Quasar: I don't know why some of you guys think the spotter should have been able to stop it.

Lack of spotting experience, probably.


Perhaps they are Superman? He seems to have more free time these days. Don't hear to much about him. Fark is a pretty big fall from grace for him though, especially multiple accounts.
 
2009-09-29 12:57:07 PM  
Raccoon Dog: Station: Although there was this one time some jackass decided to try 225 first time he ever got on a bench.

Have you noticed that 225 is like the idiot line on the bench press?

I bet 225 has injured thousands of times more people than say, 365 has.


The jump from 185 for sets of five to 225 probably took a year and a half, and honestly that was much harder than getting to 250 or 275. and it took me a year to get to 300 from 275. The times I hurt myself, i.e. pinged shoulder, pains, etc were all in the first couple years of free weights.

I think the thing with 225 is a mental thing, where if you can't do two 45's on each side then you think you're a wuss or something. then you try it and your shoulders/delts get ripped (and not in that good way) as it comes crasking down.. Pretty sure 80% of lifters have done this in their beginning stages. even though I can do it, I still consider someone pretty strong if they do sets of 10 or so with 225. it takes a ton of work and dedication just to get to that point... Bench isn't everything ,but to me its the most fun to work on.
 
2009-09-29 01:00:18 PM  
ryderdm3: Perhaps he should read a copy of this next time. Bar won't slip out of your hands if your form isn't shiat.

I'm sure Johnson's form isn't generally "shiat" if he's training under the supervision of USC weightroom staff, and he's gotten himself up to lifting 275 regularly. I bet he just lost his concentration for a second.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here.
 
2009-09-29 01:04:25 PM  
IAmRight: BTW, by the standard that USC "chokes", every program in America chokes.

I don't think USC chokes overmuch. 'Bout the same as anyone. The word is used too much in sports - every loss does not equal a choke - there's always a winner and a loser. I don't think there's always a choker.

BTW, that "weaker conference" has a winning record over every conference in the nation this decade.

You're a real trooper for continuing in your quest to make everyone memorize that useless bit of trivia

Perennially being awarded spots by voters doesn't make you better. See, the reason I was okay with the BCS is because people at least acknowledged that there was no true champion and that it was all a sham.

The system indeed sucks. But they're all playing for the same thing - the national championship that the BCS awards. Florida has a couple of them this decade and they do mean something - certainly a damn sight more than the 'conference who has a winning record against the other conferences this decade' title. Who keeps that information anyway? Do you have a spreadsheet going or something?
 
2009-09-29 01:13:18 PM  
JohnBigBootay: You're a real trooper for continuing in your quest to make everyone memorize that useless bit of trivia

Well, if they are an inferior conference, then shouldn't someone have beaten them more often than they've beaten that conference?

Also, USC has two titles, too. Not their fault the BCS thinks losing 35-7 in a Big XII title game shouldn't be punished. "oh, hey, you lost by 28 f*cking points on a neutral field to a decent but not great team in the last week of the season? That's ok! It certainly is better than losing by 3 in 3OT on the road to another decent but not great team."
 
2009-09-29 01:17:31 PM  
KiwDaWabbit: If it slipped like that, it might indicate to me that he wasn't into forced reps yet, otherwise the spotter should already probably have his hands on the bar. Hell, even then, he wouldn't have stopped it (as someone already mentioned). That's really outside the capabilities of pretty much anybody, even if you have the best reflexes ever.

My question is, how did it slip? Was he trying a thumbless grip or something?


I was wondering that too, or he wasn't properly drying or chalking his hands between sets. The only other thing I can figure is he was still getting started and for some reason he was changing his grip without putting the bar back on the rack first, which is just a dumbass move.

I actually took 215 lbs to the mouth as a high school freshman - was probably trying to bench a bit more than I should have (I did several reps at 205 two days earlier with no problems). My arms bent back instead of coming down towards my chest. My orthodontist wasn't too happy and I needed 13 stitches in my lip, but I actually came out of it with fairly minor injuries - I didn't even lose any teeth (thanks to braces), just a couple of chips.
The next spring I had an EZ-curl bar slip off a rack while changing weights and crush a toe. After that I decided to do shotput in the spring, which was somehow actually safer.
 
2009-09-29 01:21:43 PM  
GQueue: My suggestion for those freaked about dropping weight on the chest is to find a gym with dumbells that go high enough for you to use those for bench instead. Much easier to avoid dropping those on yourself, they're more likely to fall to your side than actually hit you.

I work out at home by myself, and I use dumbbells instead of a bar+bench for this very reason. If I have to crash the dumbbells when doing floor presses, the worst that can happen is I tweak my elbows a bit and ding the floor.

Although it is harder to do lower body safely with dumbbells I think.
 
2009-09-29 01:33:06 PM  
IAmRight: Well, if they are an inferior conference, then shouldn't someone have beaten them more often than they've beaten that conference?

Maybe? But there's way too small sample size of games to make any meaningful determinations. If they played 10 times as many games against one another and across the full spectrum of teams you'd have something to work with. Besides, the SEC has 5 championships this decade against the pac 10's 1. I know, for you that's trumped beacuse some chump teams beat tennessee and auburn at some point, but that's really beside the point - the important games come at the end.

Also, USC has two titles, too. Not their fault the BCS thinks losing 35-7 in a Big XII title game shouldn't be punished. "oh, hey, you lost by 28 f*cking points on a neutral field to a decent but not great team in the last week of the season? That's ok! It certainly is better than losing by 3 in 3OT on the road to another decent but not great team."

Sorry - one champion per year please. 2003 was LSU. You can argue which 1 loss team should have been in the game until you are blue in the face, but you can't turn back time and make it happen. There were 3 premier 1 loss teams that year... you can WISH that usc had been in the title game, but you certainly can't assume they'd have won it.

So, anyway, really - where is this repository of per decade conference vs conference data?
 
2009-09-29 01:38:04 PM  
Jubeebee: Although it is harder to do lower body safely with dumbbells I think.

dumbbell dead lifts and lunges are freaking awesome. I got glutes like a freakin high jumper.

/The gym, I'll be there in 26 fartleks.
 
2009-09-29 01:44:34 PM  
phedex: Bench isn't everything ,but to me its the most fun to work on.

How much a person can incline tells me more than how much a person can bench.

Anyway, I prefer dumbbells over machines. Yes, like the guy said before, you could potentially drop them on someone's foot while "bailing". You could also get hit by a bus if you cross the street without looking. If you use common sense and give people proper clearance while doing your thing, if said emergency arises, you should be clear.
 
2009-09-29 01:52:19 PM  
JohnBigBootay: So, anyway, really - where is this repository of per decade conference vs conference data?

By the way IAMRIGHT, I found one cite that said the pac 10 was up against the SEC 10-7 1998-2008 (though down woefully in the all-time records which you never show any interest in citing). Is THAT what you base all your pac-10 superiority bluster on? 17 games over 11 years - really? Tennessee might have done a little better had they known the true stakes! The Sec might have chosen a different representative if they'd have known what was on the line.

Besides, they're still playing and I can think of a couple of sec wins vs pac 10 opponents this year. Is your data current? Are you sure this little factoid is even true anymore? I had no idea...

A. that there had been so few games between the 2 conferences

or

B that it was so close in total count

Were I a professional statistician I'm pretty sure that I would judge the sample size small enough to render the results of your study, 'insignificant' anyway.
 
2009-09-29 02:04:49 PM  
Control_this: Jubeebee: Although it is harder to do lower body safely with dumbbells I think.

dumbbell dead lifts and lunges are freaking awesome. I got glutes like a freakin high jumper.

/The gym, I'll be there in 26 fartleks.


I do lunges just fine, but whenever I try deadlift with dumbbells I end up buckling my knees inward because the weights ride the outside of my legs.

I'm probably doing something wrong, or maybe I don't have the upper body strength to hold the weights right, but the only lower body dumbbell exercises I can do with a decent amount of weight are lunges and scissor squats. Everything else I feel like I'm going to break something.
 
2009-09-29 02:17:29 PM  
Station: Have you noticed that 225 is like the idiot line on the bench press?

Yep.

And I'll bet its status as the NFL Scouting Combine bench press reps weight has something to do with it.

Nope.

You know it. Its the look (Yeah! 4 plates!) combined with the machismo effect

This is it. 135 has the same problem because it's two 45-lb. plates. People get in over their heads when they go for the big plates right off the bat. 315 is six plates, but that's too much for most folks even to get off the rack...plus, with that much weight even the dimmest slob is starting to realize it's too much.

(I CAN LIFT WHAT AN NFL DUDE CAN I AM SO MANLY!).

Nope. I don't think very many people know about the combine bench press.

/Yes, I know I'm responding to multiple people
 
2009-09-29 02:43:06 PM  
phedex: I think the thing with 225 is a mental thing, where if you can't do two 45's on each side then you think you're a wuss or something.

That's gotta be it. I remember when I bench pressed 225 for the first time like it was yesterday.

By contrast, I don't remember 315 hardly at all; I don't even think it was a 1RM...it might have been the back end of a pyramid on a really good day. I know for a fact the first time I bench pressed 365, it was for 2.

By the way, I'm nowhere near that strong anymore. Not even in that ballpark.

KiwDaWabbit: How much a person can incline tells me more than how much a person can bench.

I do agree that the incline press is a superior athletic movement. At the same time, I wonder why nobody sets any stock in how far a man can carry a 100lb bag of sand after picking it up.

That seems like it's quite a greater measure of useable strength.

Fuggin Bizzy: This is it. 135 has the same problem because it's two 45-lb. plates

Haha. I don't see many people whiffing on 135 in a commercial gym but I occasionally go work out at the campus rec center when I'm back home, and those kids are just stunningly idiotic when it comes to weight lifting.

You see people doing all kinds of crap that's genius in how dumb it is; I'd never have been able to come up with it.
 
2009-09-29 02:53:08 PM  
Raccoon Dog: I do agree that the incline press is a superior athletic movement. At the same time, I wonder why nobody sets any stock in how far a man can carry a 100lb bag of sand after picking it up.

That seems like it's quite a greater measure of useable strength.


Because after you pick up a 100 pound bag of cement you can carry it for a mile or so and that seems like such an absurdly time consuming test that no one will take it?
 
2009-09-29 02:56:18 PM  
I LOl'd

then I felt bad
 
2009-09-29 03:06:52 PM  
JohnBigBootay: Because after you pick up a 100 pound bag of cement you can carry it for a mile or so and that seems like such an absurdly time consuming test that no one will take it?

Hmm. Well, I'm out of ideas then.
 
2009-09-29 03:12:20 PM  
Raccoon Dog: Hmm. Well, I'm out of ideas then.

I'm just remembering when I could do that - or assuming I could because I often carried 2 60 pound bags of concrete up ridiculously long stair cases - so one would think I could carry twenty less pounds quite far on a flat surface. ANYWAY... I had back surgery last year. Now I'd just fail the test at the pick up the 100 pound bag of concrete step.
 
2009-09-29 03:51:46 PM  
KiwDaWabbit: If it slipped like that, it might indicate to me that he wasn't into forced reps yet, otherwise the spotter should already probably have his hands on the bar. Hell, even then, he wouldn't have stopped it (as someone already mentioned). That's really outside the capabilities of pretty much anybody, even if you have the best reflexes ever.

My question is, how did it slip? Was he trying a thumbless grip or something?


Most of the videos out there where people have actually dropped the weight during a bench press are because of false grips. They are banned in most competitions. Even if your arms give out you can control the weight down onto your chest without causing injury but when the bar actually pops out of your hand then you're screwed.
 
2009-09-29 04:33:26 PM  
Why Would I Read the Article: "I've seen players have the bar slip and fall onto their chest, but never in my 25 years of coaching have I heard of someone dropping a bar on their throat," said strength and conditioning coach Chris Carlisle, who was standing 10 feet away when the accident happened. "We're fortunate he was being spotted."

Yeah, it's a good thing that spotter was there. If he wasn't, Johnson might have really hurt himself or something.


Really. The first thing I thought of after reading that was Albert Brooks telling Julie Haggerty she didn't understand the concept of the nest egg. This trainer obviously doesn't understand the concept of the spotter.
 
2009-09-29 04:39:16 PM  
Raccoon Dog: At the same time, I wonder why nobody sets any stock in how far a man can carry a 100lbs bag of sand of beer and ice.

That seems like it's quite a greater measure of useable strength.


FTFY
 
2009-09-29 05:07:27 PM  
I once had my grip slip while I had 205lbs on the bench. Scared the ever-loving chit out of me!!! I cant imagine 275lbs crashing down on my throat.

hope he recovers.
 
2009-09-29 05:16:26 PM  
he might lose his job as a spotter...

i515.photobucket.com
 
2009-09-29 07:54:12 PM  
all you smith machine guys, what do you do for stabilizer muscles?

or are you just working out for show muscles?

cause i'm guessing a guy who wants to make it to the league actually works out for strength and power
 
2009-09-29 09:04:04 PM  
img35.imageshack.us
 
2009-09-29 09:04:59 PM  
JohnBigBootay: Were I a professional statistician I'm pretty sure that I would judge the sample size small enough to render the results of your study, 'insignificant' anyway.

I'm pretty sure that, while insignificant, it's probably more significant than "well, one conference gets voted higher so it must be better".

The information is on stassen.com. You can check out all the records for everyone all-time against anyone and everyone. Yes, it's close to even. But even if it's even, how does that support the claim that the Pac-10 is INFERIOR? If they're inferior, shouldn't they have losing records against other conferences?

And please, anyone who pays attention to college football knows USC would've beaten LSU by at least 3 TDs. And I say this as someone who, yes, bet on USC to beat Texas, but was unsure of it enough that there's no way I'd have given the 7 points because USC's defense was not that good that year.
 
2009-09-29 09:18:34 PM  
IAmRight: I'm pretty sure that, while insignificant, it's probably more significant than "well, one conference gets voted higher so it must be better".

The information is on stassen.com. You can check out all the records for everyone all-time against anyone and everyone. Yes, it's close to even. But even if it's even, how does that support the claim that the Pac-10 is INFERIOR? If they're inferior, shouldn't they have losing records against other conferences?

And please, anyone who pays attention to college football knows USC would've beaten LSU by at least 3 TDs. And I say this as someone who, yes, bet on USC to beat Texas, but was unsure of it enough that there's no way I'd have given the 7 points because USC's defense was not that good that year.


Thanks for the reply - I'll check out stassen. For the record, I think USC can play with anyone in any conference - maybe not this year, but certainly for the bulk of the decade. It's the rest of the pac-10 teams that I think are suspect. Fla is on top in the sec right now, but they have a couple of other national champion schools in the last decade and that doesn't count Alabama who could win it all this year - that would be 4 different sec schools winning it all in a decade. What's the pac-10 got to counter that? Usc and cal? Come on, that's not close and you know it.
 
2009-09-29 10:08:55 PM  
JohnBigBootay: It's the rest of the pac-10 teams that I think are suspect. Fla is on top in the sec right now, but they have a couple of other national champion schools in the last decade and that doesn't count Alabama who could win it all this year - that would be 4 different sec schools winning it all in a decade. What's the pac-10 got to counter that? Usc and cal?

Again, this all has to do with voting. Oregon had a resume better than Nebraska's in '01. Washington had one as good as anyone's in '00. (maybe those years should be adjusted one, I don't want to look it up right now).

But Pac-10 teams don't get the benefit of the doubt that SEC teams do in polls, which makes it inherently more difficult for there to be more Pac-10 BCS champions. SEC teams have more history so they get more benefit of the doubt.

Everyone knows that the system is unfair, so there's really no reason to claim that a BCS title means a damn regarding a team's (or conference's) strength.

Look at it this way: If there had been a playoff and USC had won every single year for the last 7 years, would the Pac-10 be stronger or weaker than it is now? All the other teams, let's assume, perform exactly the same (USC has had a record equal to at least one participant in the BCS title game every single year since '02, so we don't really need to change anyone else's record). Would you say that suddenly, now, the Pac-10 is way, way stronger than everyone? Or that the rest of the conference sucks because USC always wins it?

I have a feeling that the perception won't change.
 
2009-09-29 10:28:35 PM  
IAmRight: I have a feeling that the perception won't change.

No, I'd still fell like it was USC and the other guys. Whereas the SEC is Fla, Alabama, LSU and the other guys, some of whom may challenge for a title as well. In short, I think the pac 10 would benefit greatly from some of the other programs stepping it up.

Do you (as I do) want a playoff?
 
2009-09-29 10:41:32 PM  
If you guys want a playoff, stop watching college football; stop talking about it; stop going to games; etc. Otherwise you're stuck with what you have now, and nobody seems to care
 
2009-09-29 11:04:05 PM  
HaywoodJablonski: If you guys want a playoff, stop watching college football;

mmmmmmmmmm, that's a no. I like watching college football AND I want a playoff, which would result in a little bit more GOOD college football to watch, and maybe a little less ALA vs Fla International. Tell me how that's bad? You could still have the stupid fark bowl parade if that's what blows your skirt up.
 
2009-09-29 11:07:36 PM  
JohnBigBootay: No, I'd still fell like it was USC and the other guys. Whereas the SEC is Fla, Alabama, LSU and the other guys, some of whom may challenge for a title as well. In short, I think the pac 10 would benefit greatly from some of the other programs stepping it up.

If the other programs win titles, as every single team within the conference did in a 15 year or so span (minimum of a co-championship, since Cal keeps screwing up and can't win it outright), then the Pac-10 is weak because there's no dominant team. It's just a circular logic setup used to justify the SEC's superiority myth based on a 17 year stretch in the '70s and '80s where they actually were dominant over the Pac-10 (this stretch accounts for virtually the entire record difference).
 
2009-09-30 12:01:23 AM  
IAmRight: JohnBigBootay: No, I'd still fell like it was USC and the other guys. Whereas the SEC is Fla, Alabama, LSU and the other guys, some of whom may challenge for a title as well. In short, I think the pac 10 would benefit greatly from some of the other programs stepping it up.

If the other programs win titles, as every single team within the conference did in a 15 year or so span (minimum of a co-championship, since Cal keeps screwing up and can't win it outright), then the Pac-10 is weak because there's no dominant team. It's just a circular logic setup used to justify the SEC's superiority myth based on a 17 year stretch in the '70s and '80s where they actually were dominant over the Pac-10 (this stretch accounts for virtually the entire record difference).


what 15 year span is that? Were people sporting elaborate beards and riding those bikes with the big front tire?
 
2009-09-30 12:11:08 AM  
He was probably gripping the bar wrong. Thumb should be on the opposite side of the bar from the fingers

correct
www.chanmatthewchan.com

incorrect

cdn-www.expertvillage.com
 
2009-09-30 12:14:04 AM  
Sorry but WTF spotter WTF. You always ALWAYS have your hands right under the bar pretty much just for this reason. Also you don't have to curl the weight just a shoulder shrug to raise the weight or usually just hold it there cause the bench is low enough. Then dude recovers cause he doesn't have weight on him and pushes the weight back up.

/Be safe out there kids
//Its all you brah!
 
2009-09-30 01:47:10 AM  
JohnBigBootay: what 15 year span is that? Were people sporting elaborate beards and riding those bikes with the big front tire?

The span immediately preceding USC's recent run of dominance.

'01: Oregon
'00: Washington
'99: Stanford
'98: UCLA
'97: Washington State
'96: Arizona State
'95: USC

Those are the teams that officially won it prior to USC's run of dominance. Other than that, though, Arizona got a split title in '93 (remember the Desert Swarm defense?), Oregon State got a share in '00, and Cal got a share in '06.
 
2009-10-01 04:27:25 PM  
Shadowknight: I dropped 150 lbs. on my chest before. That hurt for the better part of two weeks.

Same, here. The cracking sound was fun, though I didn't actually break anything.

JohnBigBootay: Florida disagrees. Yes, 2 championships DOES trump perennially winning a weaker conference.

By that measure, LSU and USC are tied with Florida.

JohnBigBootay: Sorry - one champion per year please.

img19.imageshack.us
DIVISION 1A FOOTBALL DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY

/sorry if it invalidates your argument, but your argument is crap
 
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