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(London Times)   Bush Sr. says no to unilateral war on Iraq   (timesonline.co.uk) divider line 721
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23010 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2003 at 6:39 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-03-12 09:02:25 PM
CRONEHIMSELF schrieb:
Ich_bin_ein_Rama_affe: George Bush ist ein eingebildete affe

Stimmt. Eingebildet und unausgebildet auch!
 
2003-03-12 09:02:28 PM
Impaler
what is depleted uranium

A lot of people are saying depleted uranium is the next agent orange


OK, since I've handled more depleted uranium than anyone here (as a Radiation Safety Tech), let me just say that while I don't think you want to hang around this stuff, it is generally stored in the open, not in lead-lined caves or anything. For many years, the Nuclear Techs used to skip the DU plates across the floor like a skipping stone, because it makes really cool sparks. That practice was eliminated because it was thought that if breathed enough (a lot)of the smoke from it, you could get some exposure to radiation.

Now, unless there has been some new research done, nobody is making a reactor or a bomb out of this stuff. It is generally used to shield people from regular uranium because it is so dense.

I understand it also makes a great bullet and possibly a great shell, but not because it is radioactive, but because it is dense.
 
2003-03-12 09:05:54 PM
Someone really need's to assasinate bush, that would make the world a much brighter place. No seriously I pray a sniper blow's his brains out. That would so rock, especially seeing his family in mourning crying their eyes out. I'd laugh with such sadistic glee.

And by the way lighten up. You can wish whoever you want dead. I'm not threatning anyone.
 
2003-03-12 09:06:00 PM
xtremehkr

and yet, if I were to go find data sheets on the chemical reactions that agent orange causes when it comes in contact with organic tissue, I'm sure they would support the whole cancer thing

however, I can prove, just like how dozens of researchers have proved that uranium releases alpha radiation when it decomposes

alpha radiation is helium .. not, "it's similar to helium". It is comprised of 2 protons, and 2 neutrons .. it is harmless .. it will not penetrate a sheet of paper, much less human skin

I'll check back on this thread, but I have no intentions of continuing to explain the same point over and over.

You wanted your insult? .. here it is: I'm glad I decided not to go straight into the military after high school. I'd hate to be so scientifically illiterate as to think that your arguments make sense.
 
2003-03-12 09:06:51 PM
LittleCamel
FACT: Bush41 never...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever comments on his son, the President of the United States.


Apparently, this isn't a fact. You should go read the speech. He doesn't mention him by name, but does say "The President" many times.
 
2003-03-12 09:06:55 PM
Just wondering. How long does it take for crude oil to be processed into gasoline?

From what I hear it takes months, if so that would mean that the current "crisis" with rising gas prices are artificially being raised by oil companies trying to gain money on the looming war.

If what I said above is true then yes this war is about oil. Rising the price of oil to line the pockets of capmaign contributers.
 
2003-03-12 09:07:05 PM
Thanks ZipBeep.
 
2003-03-12 09:08:28 PM
Mopofdeath: and have John Ashcroft move up a step closer to the Presidency- hell, have Cheney take over right away? Fvck, you're a crazy mofo, ain't you?
*wishes we could just call an early election like all other modern, democratic republics*
 
2003-03-12 09:09:45 PM
Crotchrocket, DU rounds are actually not as bad as people make them out to be. Only if you breathed in the Uranium dust after it hit your tank or if you have a small fleck of it inside you will it cause you serious health problems. Equipment that was hit by DU rounds must obviously be decontaminated, but as far as weapons of war go, DU is not nearly as destructive or deadly as many other conventional weapons. I mean, what about napalm, incendiary bombs, or the flame thrower? Those things burn people to death and choke them to death on smoke. What about Fuel Air Explosives? They suffocate you by taking up all the oxygen in the air and they collapse your lungs and ear drums from the air pressure.

Even chemical weapons are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Chemical weapons were used extensively during WW1 by all sides. Phosphene, Sarin, Mustard Gas, etc. and yet less than 1% of the battlefield casualties were caused by chemical weapons. Conventional weapons are far more deadly than chemical weapons any day of the week. The only reason you would want chemical weapons is the fear response. Chemical weapons terrify people. The threat of a chemical attack horrifies people. That's what Saddam uses them for. To cow the Shiites in the South into submission for fear of being gassed like the Kurds. During Saddam's genocide campaign against the Kurds in which he killed 100,000 only about 4,000 deaths were from chemical weapons.
 
2003-03-12 09:10:16 PM
"Someone really need's to assasinate bush, that would make the world a much brighter place. No seriously I pray a sniper blow's his brains out."

And leave Cheney in charge?

This is kinda like the Dan Quayle effect in reverse.
 
2003-03-12 09:11:07 PM
Someone really need's to assasinate bush, that would make the world a much brighter place. No seriously I pray a sniper blow's his brains out. That would so rock, especially seeing his family in mourning crying their eyes out. I'd laugh with such sadistic glee.

 
2003-03-12 09:11:24 PM
Bbcrackmonkey: I see, good points all around. Thanks for the better perspective on DU and other unpleasant tools of destruction
 
2003-03-12 09:12:17 PM
 
2003-03-12 09:13:33 PM
Mopofdeath:
Watch for Feds at your back door.
 
2003-03-12 09:13:56 PM
Crotchrocket Slim, I once had a great quote about weapons:

"We aren't allowed to use chemical weapons, unless the chemicals in them create huge, fiery explosions."
 
2003-03-12 09:15:21 PM
Somewhere a Secret Service agent is reading this thread and cussing up a storm at all the over-time it's generating for him/her.
 
2003-03-12 09:16:42 PM
Aardfarkette
Bulgaria, Cameroon and Guinea are all onside?!

Whoa, I better rethink my position.


Just THINK, if you were on the Security Council, no matter how small you were, you could win the lotto and get billions from Bush II just for supporting him in the war on Iraq. BILLIONS. You don't have to fight, you don't have to supply weapons or money. Nothing. Just sit back and let the money roll in.

This is Microsoft behaviour on the part of Bush II. If they don't let you do something, buy them out.
 
2003-03-12 09:17:43 PM
"We aren't allowed to use chemical weapons, unless the chemicals in them create huge, fiery explosions."

Well yeah. The other chemical weapons make you want to gag, but the fiery owns are pretty cool looking. It's hard to effectivly cheer a "HELL YEAH!" if there isn't any body parts flying.
 
2003-03-12 09:18:42 PM
ZipBeep
That's the world. It's always been that way.
 
2003-03-12 09:18:52 PM
Henchman
And leave Cheney in charge?


Where is that bastard Cheney anyway? He's been hiding out for over six months now. He owes me MONEY!!!

You can't hide forever, Dick!

;D
 
2003-03-12 09:19:07 PM
And everyone remember the Tokyo Subway that got gassed by that crazy cult? They used absolutely shiatloads of Sarin gas on an extremely crowded subway with poor ventilation, and only a few people died, hundreds more just got sick.

If they had used all the money they spent on poison gas and instead built a really big bomb they would have killed far more people. Maybe even hundreds. Those Tokyo subways are so incredibly packed you people have no idea. They actually have people who jobs it is to push crowds of people into the subway car until they cannot cram anyone else in there.
 
2003-03-12 09:19:41 PM
We need an open source government.
 
2003-03-12 09:20:05 PM
Bbcrackmonkey: hey, Hollywood war movies would be pretty boring if we were dropping EMP bombs on our enemies, of if they'd depict energy weapons without the unrealistic visible energy-beams coming out of them.

Impaler: so, you're saying that I shouldn't announce to my fellow Cobra Vipers that Destro is about ready to test out that Weather Dominator, and that Cobra Commander has ordered that a few key scientists reverse engineering all the UFO technology are to be kidnapped within the next few weeks?

Oh, btw, COOOOOOOOBRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAA!!!1!!1!!1!!1
 
2003-03-12 09:20:39 PM
"Where is that bastard Cheney anyway?"

Last I heard he was blowing up stuff under the VP's residence. Why can't he just burn incriminating documents like everyone else?
 
2003-03-12 09:20:56 PM
OMG, just like a celebrity and their crappy opinions. Bush Sr had his chance in office and mucked up the US enough. we don't need his input now. everybody knows about Bush Sr's ties with the middle east and the income he gets from them as an 'advisor'. he doens't want to take the hit in the pocket book and that's why he is against war. screw him. i didn't vote for him or his son. who cares what the french think or the UN for that matter. they don't have soldiers. the french army couldn't invade a mcdonalds restaurant. this has nothing to do with the UN. they were not attacked on 9/11, the US was. this should be and will be the US' decision and nobody elses. if Bush Jr doesn't take us to war, then he shouldn't bother running for office next year. nobody is gonna vote for a sissy.
 
2003-03-12 09:21:03 PM
"This is Microsoft behaviour on the part of Bush II. If they don't let you do something, buy them out"

I wouldn't blame Bush.... look around you, it's the American way.

 
2003-03-12 09:21:11 PM
DrToast
That's the world. It's always been that way.


But Bush II has taken it to the Microsoft level. Or Bell Telephone before the breakup.

"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company!" - Lily Tomlin
 
2003-03-12 09:22:44 PM
03-12-03 09:19:41 PM Impaler
We need an open source government.


Sounds good in theory, but if it's anything like operating systems, I dunno if I could handle the proponents of open source government.
 
2003-03-12 09:22:59 PM
Crotchrocket, that show is so awesome. The funniest thing I ever saw was when that guy in the football jersey and the helmet was running through the forest and a snake was slithering in a branch up ahead of him. As he was running by he punched the snake in the head, for no farking reason at all! He just punched a damn snake in the farking head and it made a loud *CRACK* noise. Goddamn I laughed by ass off at that.
 
2003-03-12 09:24:59 PM
I don't even want to get into all the weekly patches.
 
2003-03-12 09:27:20 PM
I liked his Dad, I dislike his son. I hope he can take his son behind the woodshed and thrash a bit of sense into him.
 
2003-03-12 09:28:21 PM
Mopofdeath The Secret Service will not pay attention to your little disclaimer. Have fun getting your entire life turned upside down, moron.
 
2003-03-12 09:29:22 PM
Don't forget the spyware.
 
2003-03-12 09:29:25 PM
Bb, tell me about it- the last week or so, I've been downloading as many old GI Joe eps as I can off Kazaa- it's very therapuetic to watch that in these days, what with the country in a bad condition, and no real clear way of dealing with the situation. Plus, it's always good to get baked and watch those old 80s cartoons.
 
2003-03-12 09:30:03 PM
And Cap'n Gridiron did suck a lot.
 
2003-03-12 09:33:00 PM
Father Jack schrieb Stimmt. Eingebildet und unausgebildet auch!

Genau so mein Freund. Vielleicht koennen wir 'was tun...
 
2003-03-12 09:37:36 PM
 
2003-03-12 09:40:34 PM
Ancalagon
alpha radiation is helium .. not, "it's similar to helium". It is comprised of 2 protons, and 2 neutrons .. it is harmless .. it will not penetrate a sheet of paper, much less human skin


Well, let's not go overboard here. While I don't think there is a health threat similar to Agent Orange with DU, Plutonium is an alpha emitter also, and nobody would want to hold Plutonium in their hands.

But, those web site people are wackos, yes.
 
2003-03-12 09:41:09 PM
I'd hit it, but I'd hate myself for it.
 
2003-03-12 09:43:58 PM
Ancalagon

Assume

Ass U Me

Assuming I went into the military straight after High School made as Ass out of U and not Me.

Why don't you go ahead and tell me how smart you are now. Two pieces of evidence about the radioactivity of depleted uranium were presented contradicting eachother. My mind was made up based on personal experiance. That would make two reasons to think it is radioactive versus one.

You just aren't going to convince me otherwise, even if you agree that Agent Orange is a carcenogen.

California landfills are being tested right now and they are finding huge volums of radiactivity that is not supposed to be there. That story was in the LA Times.

It just amazes me that you are so willing to trust a government that has lied so many times about so many things. Maybe it is because you have been scared by the propaganda being spread, maybe you believe that this is just business as usual for world politics. Whatever it is I don't care, despite what is said about radiation i know that it is not safe and that is being proven more and more. For the "Greater Good" cause that the military likes to use many things are done without public knowledge and this is considered being clever by a lot of leaders in the military. The average age of military retirees is not impressive.

If you want to insult my intelligence or anything else that comes to mind, feel free. You know very little about me and based on your reactions to finding out something you don't like I doubt very much that you would.

Put your head back in the sand and hope for the best, things will be alright when Bush is back in Texas and there are a reasonable bunch of people in in office trying to undo all of what he did. Not soon enough tho.
 
2003-03-12 09:44:02 PM
03-12-03 08:27:43 PM DrToast

So what you're saying is that it's the fault of the U.S. that Saddam Hussein is so brutal, but you're saying nobody should try to correct past mistakes and we should allow Saddam Hussein to keep doing what he's doing. Please explain the logic.


I think what hes saying, or at least what I think, is that you can't take the "moral high ground" when you and your buddies were partly responsible for the weapons Saddam has. At least Bush should come out and say "look, we sold him weapons, we didn't know he would be this dangerous, now lets take him out! But first, NORTH KOREA!" Then I and many other people would agree. Until then, you can't use the argument like "oh he gassed his own people" when you actually assisted in it knowing full well he was.

John Allen Muhammad received sniper training in the army. Does that mean he should be fried and allowed to continue to shoot people at gas stations or in parking lots because he trained in the army?


Imagine if he told the Army exactly what he was going to do, and the Army kept supplying him and giving him monthly checks if they saw him killing people. Thats at least what the Reagan administration did.
 
2003-03-12 09:44:44 PM
AlleyKat: You go, boy!


I'm sick and tired of these morons who feel bad for the rest of world because we Americans have more money. Well, freakin' A, man... if you don't like it here, move! And if you're already out of the US, then stay out there! The less of people are here, the more wealth I can acquire!

"What are you staring at? You're laborers! You should be laboring! That's what you get for not having a college education..."
-William Atherton as Dr. Jerry Hathaway in Real Genius
 
2003-03-12 09:45:10 PM
03-12-03 09:37:36 PM QuithEx


I dont care if shes a terrorist sympathizer, theres something about her that screams "do me!"
 
2003-03-12 09:45:57 PM
03-12-03 09:44:02 PM Big Al
I think what hes saying,


Actually, he answered my post.
 
2003-03-12 09:46:03 PM
In regards to depleted uranium....

Depleted uranium is largely (99.8% by military spec, 99.3% by civilian spec) U-238. As Ancalagon correctly stated, U-238 emits only alpha particles. Alpha particles are completely harmless.


However, as U-238 decays, it generates Th-234 and Pa-234, both of which are beta and (weak) gamma emitters. (I believe Pa-234 is the worse of the two.) Beta emitters can be harmful, and gamma emitters are harmful. Both Th-234 and Pa-234 have very short half-lives. In addition, the remaining 0.2% of uranium in depleted uranium is U-235, which is an active emitter of alpha, beta, and gamma particles.


Constant, bare-skin exposure to depleted uranium rounds over a prolonged period of time would probably be detrimental to your health, which is why military personnel who are likely to be handling the substance frequently are advised to take precautions.


Infrequent contact, or proximity to depleted uranium rounds is unlikely to have much of an impact on one's health. It is very unlikely that depleted uranium rounds would be responsible for a cancer spike in the Middle East. Not unless people were, as FB- put it, sleeping on a stack of the things. I rather suspect that breathing fumes from oil-rig fires are far more hazardous.


As far as making bombs from depleted uranium, forget it. Weapons grade uranium consists of greater than 90% U-235, which exists only as a trace substance in depleted uranium. You would need a lot of time, money, equipment and depleted uranium to refine any weapons-grade uranium in this fashion. If you have to refine, try starting with nuclear fuel uranium which is 3% to 7% U-235. Or, even easier, find a helpful friend to sell you some pre-made.


This concludes your Fark science break.
 
2003-03-12 09:49:22 PM
The average age of military retirees is not impressive.

The average age that military retirees live to is not impressive...
 
2003-03-12 09:50:25 PM
Ann needs to eat something, her arm could be Calista Flockharts.
 
2003-03-12 09:53:05 PM
Ann needs to eat something

True, but if she gains weight she will lose the only reason anyone listens to her.
 
2003-03-12 09:53:20 PM
Meepzoid:
Can we please settle the argument of the oil in Iraq?

I would like to know a couple of things.

1> Why didn't we take the oil the first time around?
2> What are we planning to do with the oil?
3> We already have there oil. (It is for sale on the open market)

I guess you would like us to believe that Bush is conspiring to move in and build big bad proccessing plants that take the oil from the ground and then??? Then what? We RULE THE WORLD! Muaaha and finally the master plan is in place to dominate the world with our super powerfull military and mega corporations. Get real retard.

I mean seriously the 'its all about the oil man' is a bunch of crap and anyone who says that is ranked down in my eyes. The fact is it is simply oil and they are not the only place that has all of the oil and although they may have the largest oil deposits I don't believe the middle east is a the only oil producing reigon.

Peace out
 
2003-03-12 09:54:13 PM
 
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