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(London Times)   Bush Sr. says no to unilateral war on Iraq   (timesonline.co.uk) divider line 720
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23012 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2003 at 6:39 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-03-12 12:45:14 PM
that's funny. i wonder how the freepers and "dubya can do no wrong" are going to respond to this.
 
2003-03-12 12:45:48 PM
oh wait. i already know. they'll blame Clinton
 
2003-03-12 12:52:44 PM
I can't seem to pull up the article. Who else has it?

/goes off to look

/nope.
 
2003-03-12 12:57:11 PM
Bush Sr warning over unilateral action
From Roland Watson in Washington



THE first President Bush has told his son that hopes of peace in the Middle East would be ruined if a war with Iraq were not backed by international unity.
Drawing on his own experiences before and after the 1991 Gulf War, Mr Bush Sr said that the brief flowering of hope for Arab-Israeli relations a decade ago would never have happened if America had ignored the will of the United Nations.

He also urged the President to resist his tendency to bear grudges, advising his son to bridge the rift between the United States, France and Germany.

"You've got to reach out to the other person. You've got to convince them that long-term friendship should trump short-term adversity," he said.

The former President's comments reflect unease among the Bush family and its entourage at the way that George W. Bush is ignoring international opinion and overriding the institutions that his father sought to uphold. Mr Bush Sr is a former US Ambassador to the UN and comes from a family steeped in multi-lateralist traditions.

Although not addressed to his son in person, the message, in a speech at Tufts University in Massachusetts, was unmistakeable. Mr Bush Sr even came close to conceding that opponents of his son's case against President Saddam Hussein, who he himself is on record as loathing, have legitimate cause for concern.

He said that the key question of how many weapons of mass destruction Iraq held "could be debated". The case against Saddam was "less clear" than in 1991, when Mr Bush Sr led an international coalition to expel invading Iraqi troops from Kuwait. Objectives were "a little fuzzier today", he added.

After the Gulf War, Mr Bush Sr steered Israel and its Arab neighbours to the Madrid conference, a stepping stone to the historic Israeli-Palestinian Oslo accords, in much the same way that the present President has talked about the removal of Saddam as opening the way to a wider peace in the region.

In an ominous warning for his son, Mr Bush Sr said that he would have been able to achieve nothing if he had jeopardised future relations by ignoring the UN. "The Madrid conference would never have happened if the international coalition that fought together in Desert Storm had exceeded the UN mandate and gone on its own into Baghdad after Saddam and his forces."

Also drawing on the lessons of 1991, he said that it was imperative to mend fences with allies immediately, rather than waiting until after a war. He had been infuriated with the decision of King Hussein of Jordan to side with Saddam rather than the US, but while criticising the Jordanian leader in public and freezing $41 million in US aid, he also passed word to King Hussein that he understood his domestic tensions.

Mr Bush Jr, who is said never to forget even relatively minor slights, has alarmed analysts with the way in which he has allowed senior Administration figures such as Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary, aggressively to criticise France and Germany.

There are, however, signs that Mr Bush Sr's message may be getting through.

Father and son talk regularly and it was, in part, pressure from Mr Bush Sr's foreign policy coterie, that helped to persuade the President to go to the UN last September.
 
2003-03-12 01:02:24 PM
Ignore that last comment. The article finally pulled up, and seems to be basing everything on a speach by Bush (not Shrub) at Tufts on 02/27.

Transcript.
 
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2003-03-12 01:05:14 PM
Hopefully Bush Sr can rein in his crazy-fark son before he takes it upon himself to destroy civilization.
 
2003-03-12 01:55:50 PM
.............wow. This is very interesting. For him to publicly state that he's not in total agreement with his son's actions is basically a public slap in the face.

I personally think that W is a crackpot and his father knows it.
 
2003-03-12 02:04:01 PM
lalalalalalala I'm not listening lalalalalalalalala
 
2003-03-12 02:23:23 PM
Damn his Communist hide!
 
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2003-03-12 02:38:05 PM
Bush Sr. labeled 'domestic terrorist.' Ashcroft Homeland Security Service detains & deports former President to Guantanamo for 'unpatriotic dissent.'
 
2003-03-12 03:11:03 PM

Read the actual transcript (linked above). I think the Guardian puts a bit of a spin on the actual words spoken.

From the Guardian:

THE first President Bush has told his son that hopes of peace in the Middle East would be ruined if a war with Iraq were not backed by international unity. Drawing on his own experiences before and after the 1991 Gulf War, Mr Bush Sr said that the brief flowering of hope for Arab-Israeli relations a decade ago would never have happened if America had ignored the will of the United Nations.

He also urged the President to resist his tendency to bear grudges, advising his son to bridge the rift between the United States, France and Germany.


What he says is if the US had defied the UN and gone in and assasinated Saddam (as many people think should have happened) that would have shattered the coalition and probably prevented the Madrid peace conference. he didn't "tell his son" anything according to this speech. In fact:

And I now I stay out of the President's way and try not to complicate his life. I have an appreciation for the big job he has to do. And so I don't go around giving advice to the 43rd President of the United States. All bets are off when it comes to Barbara. As the President put it, I give him advice when he asks for it, and Barbara gives it even when he doesn't ask for it.

He did say (quoting the transcript)
I know we have differences with European countries, and they've got differences with us, some of them. There's a vast array and coalition with supporting the United States, and supporting the President now, but there's a couple quite obvious exceptions to that. But, I worked on those relationships, and I feel confident that when all this calms down, when Iraq lives within the international law, you will see the United States back together as allies and friends with both Germany and France.


At no time did he use the word "grudge".

I thought it was a pretty good speech, all things considered. And I'm no fan of Bush or Shrub.
 
2003-03-12 03:12:31 PM
Get me..... a shrubbey!
 
2003-03-12 04:35:43 PM
Times Online...... Why hasn't any major American media picked up on the former presidents dissenting comments? I'm sure it was just an oversight. hahahahaha
 
2003-03-12 04:46:55 PM
CNN mentions it here (as a footnote)

Didn't see anything on Fox or MSNBC

It was just a talk by Bush, not usually newsworthy.
 
2003-03-12 05:20:13 PM
All joking aside (if you can do that when talking about W), there has to be some thought about what will happen in the region after a possible war.

The stability of Iraq will be much harder to bring about if the US has to go it alone during the reconstruction. It's probable that allies will be more important then than during a campaign to outst Saddam.
 
2003-03-12 06:41:55 PM
Shut up Dr, you had your chance.
 
2003-03-12 06:42:57 PM
Didn't we just get through with this flamewar?

AGAIN?????? my god.
 
2003-03-12 06:43:35 PM
Hmm, interesting. Lots of people had just assumed that Shrubya was just a puppet of the first. Guess Dumbya is so bad, even the first Quakenbush isn't that impressed...
/Read my lips, no new taxes
 
2003-03-12 06:44:05 PM
That's it, he doesn't get any Freedom Fries!
 
2003-03-12 06:44:26 PM
Why is that the only time I can respect a republican, is after they lose an election? Do they just become smarter after they leave office or something?

Though to be fair, While Bush Sr. isn't may Fav president of all time, he was pretty good when dealing with issues outside of the US.
 
2003-03-12 06:45:05 PM
Congress now referring to "Former President Bush" as "Former President Freedom"
 
2003-03-12 06:45:35 PM
This is very interesting. I think I'll go drink heavily and do some math.
 
2003-03-12 06:45:48 PM
I think when Saddam called Desert Storm in 91 the mother of all wars, he wasn't talking about the size of it. He was saying that Desert Storm would literally be the mother of all wars to come after, the cause for happening if you will. And if Bush took office even after most of the US told him they didn't want him, I don't see how is fathers opinion would sway him.
 
2003-03-12 06:46:44 PM
Shrub is a moron. Even daddy thinks he's a moron.
 
2003-03-12 06:46:45 PM
it seems the Presidents Bush may have a complete brain between the both of them after all...
 
2003-03-12 06:47:08 PM
Am I the only one sick of the administration's catch phrases: "unilateral", "multilateral", "bilateral", etc.
 
2003-03-12 06:47:59 PM
Who better to know that Bush, Jr. is a complete idiot than his father.
 
2003-03-12 06:49:20 PM
talent does indeed skip a generation
 
2003-03-12 06:49:35 PM
Tottie
Am I the only one sick of the administration's catch phrases: "unilateral", "multilateral", "bilateral", etc.

GIS for "unilateral":



Mmmmmmm.
 
2003-03-12 06:50:18 PM
Thank you for finally posting this... I knew Fark was not a bastion of fascism as the corporate media seems increasingly to be.

Also, fark Bush, fark Rumsfeld, fark Rice, fark Ashcroft, and Cheney... i can't farkin see you or find you but fark you too.

In related news, Halliburton has acquired contracts from the DOD to the tune of an "undisclosed amount" for the "repair and renovation" of Iraq's oil fields.

"The President is Bush, the Vice President's a dick, so a whole lotta *farkin* is what we gonna get" (Talib Kweli)
 
2003-03-12 06:51:36 PM
Wow, this is incredible because not only his he W's father, but he's also an ex-President, so it packs a double-punch.
 
2003-03-12 06:51:41 PM
Funny how this does not appear in any American press.
 
2003-03-12 06:52:04 PM
AgentPothead:
would you PLEASE just get over it? If it bothers you *SO* much, then please tell us all exactly what steps you have taken in contacting your representatives in an effort to do away with the electoral college?
In simpler terms: put up or shut up.
 
2003-03-12 06:52:18 PM
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...he's in sooooooo much trouble...his dad is pissed...i saw him get yelled at...looks like we'll have to play army without dubya today...
 
udo
2003-03-12 06:52:20 PM
After the Gulf War, Mr Bush Sr steered Israel and its Arab neighbours to the Madrid conference, a stepping stone to the historic Israeli-Palestinian Oslo accords, in much the same way that the present President has talked about the removal of Saddam as opening the way to a wider peace in the region.

And this brought about an end to the conflict in Israel? No, it was more talk talk while both sides were rearming.
 
2003-03-12 06:53:34 PM
AgentPothead

Good point. This wont be the last war battle of the war either. Been in planning for a while.
 
2003-03-12 06:54:16 PM
I read this a few days ago from other source, I forget which. Pretty funny that it's not in any American papers.
 
2003-03-12 06:54:42 PM
Ha -- I always though Bush.SR was a liberal, wool-gathering leftist. (sarcasm.)
 
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2003-03-12 06:56:01 PM
American press is too busy with demonizing Saddam and making war look like a fun little video game in the knowledge that getting the cud chewing average american to accept war will spell billions in advertisment revenue for them and idiot joe 6-pack tunes in to hoot and "'holler" at pictures of non-americans being killed.
 
2003-03-12 06:56:40 PM
Moron Jr.
"But , but But DADDEEEE - you, YOU PROMISED I COULD HAVE ONE!!! You had one! Why c-c-can't I??? YOU PROMMMMMISED!

Moron Sr.
"Barbara! Git in here! Git this noodle armed choir boy outta here! Christ! Cheney is going to have another anuerism and then where will we be?"
 
2003-03-12 06:56:43 PM
When Dubya's oil-grab gets too blatant and embarrassing even for George Senior---watch out!
 
2003-03-12 06:57:47 PM
God D*mn moderate.
 
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2003-03-12 06:58:09 PM
US media is a biased, self-serving joke... period. Anybody that believes shiat-1 that they see on CNN/NBC/FOX/McNews/et al needs to have very large holes drilled in their head.
 
2003-03-12 06:58:14 PM
WIMP
 
2003-03-12 06:58:24 PM
SofaKing:

So is salmon a weapon of mass destruction now?
 
2003-03-12 06:58:51 PM
SofaKing
Mmmmmmm

GIS on Mmmmmmm:

A little bit ironic...don't cha think?
 
2003-03-12 06:59:22 PM
is this a ploy cause there is no way in h3ll that i am going to say anything good about bush Sr.
 
2003-03-12 06:59:46 PM
Ni
 
2003-03-12 07:00:03 PM
That's why Sr. lost - he alienated his constituency (read my lips indeed).

I guess the son has learned a few tricks since then.
 
2003-03-12 07:00:50 PM
Isn't it too late now? All of W's uppity warmongering has gotts the US into a pickle: If W backs down, then the excited terrorists will want to sock it to us, and if we move unilaterally, the world will hat eus and still want to attack us.

Someone please, just assasinate W and let's move on.
 
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