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(Toronto Star)   Doctors complain mixed messages on flu shots (it'll kill you) are confusing people (Big Pharma's shot doesn't work) who should be getting it (because EVERYONE wants a big ol' dose of autism)   (thestar.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, flu shots, seasonal flu, bird flu, West Nile virus, immunization, N.S., New Brunswick, doctors  
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1311 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Sep 2009 at 1:03 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-09-26 12:48:47 PM  
It's as if subby's trying to convey some kind of covert message, but I can't be sure.

Should we be sure to drink our Ovaltine?
 
2009-09-26 01:13:51 PM  
I read the article and can't understand why getting a seasonal flu vaccine would increase the risk of contracting H1N1. That doesn't make any sense.
 
2009-09-26 01:20:42 PM  

Witty Handle: I read the article and can't understand why getting a seasonal flu vaccine would increase the risk of contracting H1N1. That doesn't make any sense.


Simple. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
 
2009-09-26 01:24:39 PM  
Almost everyone around me has baeen sick already. Why are they still trying to give out the vacc for it?
 
2009-09-26 01:27:44 PM  

Witty Handle: I read the article and can't understand why getting a seasonal flu vaccine would increase the risk of contracting H1N1. That doesn't make any sense.


Well it all starts when two virus love each other very much...
 
2009-09-26 01:42:05 PM  
I sincerely hope subby was trying to make with teh funny.

Of all the burning stupid in this world, antivaxxer stupid burns the brightest.
 
2009-09-26 01:49:07 PM  

GWSuperfan: Witty Handle: I read the article and can't understand why getting a seasonal flu vaccine would increase the risk of contracting H1N1. That doesn't make any sense.

Simple. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.


If there is research that suggests it, then Ontario's policy makes sense.
 
2009-09-26 01:50:44 PM  
www.mindoverchatter.com
The only medicine I trust.
 
2009-09-26 01:54:55 PM  
danwiseman, I hate you, and now I feel like things are crawling in my hair.
 
2009-09-26 01:58:59 PM  
I'm just now getting over it. The doc said my son was an index case for him, and he had only had one other child in his office with flu symptoms that went away only to come back worse.

No pneumonia though for the first kid or mine.

//He also told us to take the silly masks off, and that society has lost its mind.
 
2009-09-26 02:02:11 PM  
I have swine flu so I'm really getting a kick...

/it sucks.
 
2009-09-26 02:03:57 PM  
I highly doubt many Americans read all 1,168 pages of The River, so I'm going to go with Guillain-Barré syndrome for the win.
 
2009-09-26 02:11:50 PM  

danwiseman: The only medicine I trust.


Leeches work great for keeping circulation flowing in reattached fingers and toes.

I wonder what the heck is up with the statement issued by some researchers that getting the regular flu shot will put you at risk for the swine flu. And this was the experts talking, not the people freaking out. I wish they would just put some kind of cohesive, coherent information together.
 
2009-09-26 02:30:55 PM  
Actually, the vaccines have been genetically programmed to only cause harm to neo-conservatives. Those who have have the gene that promotes "family values" - high moral standards, loyalty - will become ill and eventually die from the flu shot. In all others, it simply vaccinates against the flu.


/bwahahaha
 
2009-09-26 02:54:13 PM  
Apparently, in the future everyone will either die from H1N1 or develop autism from the vaccine, so I'd say we're f**ked.

/might as well sart drinking again
 
2009-09-26 03:16:51 PM  

bukketmaster: /might as well sart drinking driknign again


FTFY
 
2009-09-26 03:29:11 PM  
Just to preempt the loonies:

If you believe that vaccines cause autism, you are retarded and should kill yourself before you breed (any more). Have a nice day.
 
2009-09-26 03:33:26 PM  
A Budget of Dumb Asses
Mark Crislip, MD, Infectious Diseases, 08:40PM Sep 7, 2009


Flu season is here, kinda sorta, it never really went away thanks to H1N1. I was rounding today, lucky me with the three day weekend, when one of my colleagues mentioned a post I had written a year ago at the old blog about the flu vaccine. It was printed and put up in the break room, and he saw it, took it home to his wife, who promptly mailed it to a colleague that is a proud "I never get the flu vaccine" kind of guy.

It is like people who are proud of being ignorant of science. I never understand why people brag about being ignorant or stupid. You would think they would be embarrassed, but then they are probably a... well, let us just see.

Anyway, he read my short rant and evidently changed his mind about getting the flu vaccine this year. Yippee. So what was the powerful, reasoned essay that altered the course of human (well, maybe one human) history?

I give you, slightly rewritten for 2009, a Budget of Dumb Asses.

I had my flu shot today. Well, my anti-flu shot. Protected me, my family, and my patients from sickness and death for another year. Whew.

I wonder if you are one of those Dumb Asses who do not get the flu shot each year? Yes. Dumb Ass. Big D, big A. You may be allergic to the vaccine, you may have had Guillain Barre, in which case I will cut you some slack. But if you don't have those conditions and you work in health care and you don't get a vaccine for one of the following reasons, you are a dumb ass.

1. The vaccine gives me the flu. Dumb ass. It is a killed vaccine. It cannot give you the influenza. It is impossible to get flu from the influenza vaccine.

2. I never get the flu, so I don't need the vaccine. Irresponsible dumb ass. I have never had a head on collision, but I wear my seat belt. And you probably don't use a condom either. So far you have been lucky, and you are a potential winner of a Darwin Award, although since you don't use a condom, you are unfortunately still in the gene pool.

3. Only old people get the flu. Selfish dumb ass. Influenza can infect anyone, and one of the groups who are more likely to die of influenza are the very young. Often those most at risk for dying from influenza are those least able, due to age or underlying diseases, to respond to the vaccine. You can help prevent your old, sickly Grandmother or your newborn daughter from getting influenza by getting the vaccine, so you do not get flu and pass it one to her. Flu, by the way, is highly contagious, with 20 to 50% of contacts with an index case getting the flu. However, Granny may be sitting on a fortune that will come to you, and killing her off with the flu is a great way to get her out of the way and never be caught. That would make a good episode of CSI.

4. I can prevent influenza or treat it by taking echinacea, vitamin C or airborne. Gullible dumb ass cubed then squared. None of these concoctions has any efficacy what so ever against influenza. They neither prevent nor treat influenza. And you can't boost you immune system either. Immunity is not a Jamba Juice. Anyone who says that the immune system can be boosted is also a dumb ass.

5. Flu isn't all that bad a disease. Underestimating dumb ass. Part of the problem with the term flu is that it is used both as a generic term for damn near any viral illness with a fever and is also used for a severe viral pneumonia. Medical people are just as inaccurate about using the term as the general public. The influenza virus directly and indirectly kills 30,000 people and leads to hospitalization of 200,000 in the US each year. Influenza is a nasty lung illness. And what is stomach 'flu'? No such thing, dumb ass.

6. I am not at risk for flu. Denying dumb ass. If you breathe, you are risk for influenza. Here are the groups of people who should not get the flu vaccine (outside of people with severe adverse reactions to the vaccine): Former President Clinton, who evidently doesn't inhale. And people who want to be safe from zombies. If you don't get the vaccine you do not have to worry about the zombie apocalypse, because zombies eat brains.

7. The vaccine is worse than the disease. Dumb ass AND a wimp. What a combination. Your mother must be proud. Unless you think a sore deltoid for a day is too high a price to pay to prevent two weeks of high fevers, severe muscles aches, and intractable cough.

8. I had the vaccine last year, so I do not need it this year. Uneducated dumb ass. Each year new strains of influenza circulate across the world. Last years vaccine at best provides only partial protection. Every year you need a new shot. And we have a new strain this season, H1N1, so you cannot be a parasite on the immunity of others.

9. The vaccine costs too much. Cheap dumb ass. The vaccine costs less than a funeral, less than Tamiflu, less than a week in the hospital.

10. I received the vaccine and I got the flu anyway. Inexact dumb ass. The vaccine is not perfect and you may have indeed had the flu. More likely you called one of the many colds people get each year the flu. Remember there are hundreds of potential causes of a respiratory infection circulating, the vaccine only covers influenza, the virus most likely to kill you and yours.

11. I don't believe in the flu vaccine. Superstitious, premodern, magical thinking dumb ass. What is there to believe in? Belief is what you do when there is no data. Probably don't believe in gravity or germ theory either. Everyone, I suppose, has to believe in something, and I believe I will have a beer.

12. The government puts tracking nanobots in the vaccine as well as RFID chips as part of the mark of the beast, and the vaccine doesn't work since it is part of a big government sponsored conspiracy to line the pockets of big pharma and inject the American sheeple with exotic new infections in an attempt to control population growth and help usher in a New World Order. Well, that excuse is at least reasonable. Paranoid dumb ass.

So get the vaccine. And pass this url on to someone else. The life you may save may be your own. Or be a dumb ass.

BTW: budget is an archaic term for a quantity of material, usually written. I do love dem dare archaic words, don't cha know.
 
2009-09-26 03:55:24 PM  

threedingers: I sincerely hope subby was trying to make with teh funny.

Of all the burning stupid in this world, antivaxxer stupid burns the brightest.


Nothing funny about antivaxx
 
2009-09-26 04:25:14 PM  
I simply have a needle phobia. Luckilly, my immune system has kept me good thus far, but I know I'm going to get it eventually. Even still, my mind just will not relent.

Needles. *shudders*
 
2009-09-26 04:29:32 PM  
I have a doctors appointment October 20th, so I am getting a flu shot of these replies.
 
2009-09-26 04:31:14 PM  

lake_huron: 1. The vaccine gives me the flu. Dumb ass. It is a killed vaccine. It cannot give you the influenza. It is impossible to get flu from the influenza vaccine.


Yes, but it can generate an immune response that generates flu like symptoms.
 
2009-09-26 04:32:00 PM  

Harry_Seldon: lake_huron: 1. The vaccine gives me the flu. Dumb ass. It is a killed vaccine. It cannot give you the influenza. It is impossible to get flu from the influenza vaccine.

Yes, but it can generate an immune response that generates flu like symptoms.


It's still not "the flu" though.
 
2009-09-26 04:36:21 PM  

Tavillion: I simply have a needle phobia. Luckilly, my immune system has kept me good thus far, but I know I'm going to get it eventually. Even still, my mind just will not relent.

Needles. *shudders*


I used to be needle-phobic. Diabetes cleared that right up.
 
2009-09-26 04:40:39 PM  

meat0918: Harry_Seldon: lake_huron: 1. The vaccine gives me the flu. Dumb ass. It is a killed vaccine. It cannot give you the influenza. It is impossible to get flu from the influenza vaccine.

Yes, but it can generate an immune response that generates flu like symptoms.

It's still not "the flu" though.


I'm was looking for a argument. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. :->

sbadrinath.files.wordpress.com
 
2009-09-26 05:00:55 PM  
Aren't there many different types of flu strains? IE: too many to be vaccinated against all of them?


/Never gets flu shots
//never gets sick
 
2009-09-26 06:38:28 PM  

southparkk420: Aren't there many different types of flu strains? IE: too many to be vaccinated against all of them?


/Never gets flu shots
//never gets sick


yes there are many different types of flu strains. the typical vaccine specifically inoculates against 3 and is usually good for partial protection from most other strains.
 
2009-09-26 08:02:00 PM  

Tavillion: I simply have a needle phobia. Luckilly, my immune system has kept me good thus far, but I know I'm going to get it eventually. Even still, my mind just will not relent.

Needles. *shudders*


Yeah, I have never understood the desire to get a flu vaccine if you don't have a compromised immune system. You need to exercise it for it to be of any use. Live with two people who work with the public and are constantly getting sick. My girlfriend has a kid who is bringing home all kinds of bugs. I live in a freaking petrie dish, but rarely pick up any thing, and the rare time I do, I don't get it anywhere near as bad as anyone around me.
 
2009-09-26 08:15:41 PM  
 
2009-09-26 08:27:37 PM  

tinderboxer: Yeah, I have never understood the desire to get a flu vaccine if you don't have a compromised immune system. You need to exercise it for it to be of any use. Live with two people who work with the public and are constantly getting sick. My girlfriend has a kid who is bringing home all kinds of bugs. I live in a freaking petrie dish, but rarely pick up any thing, and the rare time I do, I don't get it anywhere near as bad as anyone around me.


I suppose the posting up above by Dr. Crislip wasn't helpful at all? Or was it "tl;dr"?

Look, I have only had influenza (laboratory-documented) once, and trust me, it's far worse than the shot. Yes, I was vaccinated that season -- so it's not 100%, so what? It's known to be 50-70% effective most seasons.

Your comprehension of basic immunology is flawed. A vaccine "exercises" your immune system by exposing it to the very antigens it may have to cope with it later.

You can easily pick up the flu, get a mild case, give it to your girlfriend's kid -- and have said child wind up in the hospital. Or you could pass it on to someone's grandmother, and she could die as well.

southparkk420: Aren't there many different types of flu strains? IE: too many to be vaccinated against all of them?


/Never gets flu shots
//never gets sick


The strains circulating in the Southern hemisphere are roughly predictive of what we may see several months later. The vaccines are formulated with the 3 most common strains, but 9 months ahead of time. It's a surprisingly good guess, in general.


Everyone, please get the flu shots. Even if you "never get sick," you may get a mild case and pass it on to someone else, and they can get very sick.

By the way
- vaccinating people over 65 decreased all-cause mortality by 48% (New England Journal of Medicine (new window))
- vaccinating healthy working adults decreases number of missed work days and overall saved money (Journal of the American Med Assoc (new window))

This case study (new window) starts with the death of a healthy 15-year-old girl from influenza, then discusses the evidence for prevention strategies.
 
2009-09-26 08:40:35 PM  

tinderboxer: Yeah, I have never understood the desire to get a flu vaccine if you don't have a compromised immune system. You need to exercise it for it to be of any use.


Wouldn't it be cool if someone invented a way to exercise your immune system without getting sick?
 
2009-09-26 10:51:23 PM  
Having been through a week of utterly incapacitated hell a few years ago thanks to the flu, I've been religious about getting the shot every year since then. Having a mild stomach bug isn't a big deal, but you don't want to get slammed with the real thing - if any flu vaccine caused a reaction 1/10 as bad, it would be pulled from the market so fast your head would spin. It was awful, and it spread like wildfire. If I caught it, the chances of my young children or some of the old folks around the neighborhood catching it would be way too high. (But then, I'm weird. I like getting shots because it's like my own way of putting a thumb in the eye of the "But natural diseases like measles are so harmless!" Tell that to the unvaxed kid I knew growing up who got permanent brain damage from measles).
 
2009-09-26 11:27:55 PM  
Can I back up a second for an honest question.

Viruses are not Alive.

Thus, they cannot be killed.

What is a "Dead" Virus?
 
2009-09-26 11:49:41 PM  

RenownedCurator: Having a mild stomach bug isn't a big deal, but you don't want to get slammed with the real thing - if any flu vaccine caused a reaction 1/10 as bad, it would be pulled from the market so fast your head would spin.


I get slammed with about a week of 50% flu-strength symptoms whenever I get a flu vaccine.
 
2009-09-27 12:23:40 AM  

TheZorker: Can I back up a second for an honest question.

Viruses are not Alive.

Thus, they cannot be killed.

What is a "Dead" Virus?


Think of it as a car with the engine removed. You can still recognize it as a car, even tell the make, model, color, and probably model year, but it can't go anywhere without the engine. Apply the same concept to a virus. Enough of it is intact that your immune system can recognize it and learn to react to it and eliminate it, but it lacks some vital component that is required for it to reproduce. Does that make sense?
 
2009-09-27 01:45:22 AM  

meat0918: //He also told us to take the silly masks off, and that society has lost its mind.


Get a new doctor, preferable one that can learn and apply new ideas.
 
2009-09-27 02:04:40 AM  

tinderboxer:
Yeah, I have never understood the desire to get a flu vaccine if you don't have a compromised immune system. You need to exercise it for it to be of any use.


Vaccines often don't work for people with compromised immune systems. By definition their immune systems do not work properly. This is why it is important that everyone who can get vaccinated get the vaccine, so as to protect those for whom the vaccine would be useless.

And vaccines do work the immune system, that's how they protect you from disease. If they didn't work the immune system, you wouldn't become immune.

/had the flu this year, knocked me off my butt for two solid weeks
 
2009-09-27 02:28:11 AM  

loser0: tinderboxer: Yeah, I have never understood the desire to get a flu vaccine if you don't have a compromised immune system. You need to exercise it for it to be of any use.

Wouldn't it be cool if someone invented a way to exercise your immune system without getting sick?


Impossible. Who are you that is so wise in the ways of science?

/hint to morans: vaccines give your immune system something to do
 
2009-09-27 03:04:12 AM  

GWSuperfan: Witty Handle: I read the article and can't understand why getting a seasonal flu vaccine would increase the risk of contracting H1N1. That doesn't make any sense.

Simple. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.


cotigo ergo dubito
 
2009-09-27 03:10:39 AM  

captainktainer: Just to preempt the loonies:

If you believe that vaccines cause autism, you are retarded and should kill yourself before you breed (any more). Have a nice day.


i second the motion, vaccines do not cause autism. it's really just the entire human race becoming more introverted and hermit like, and i would like to blame Huckabee just because he is a douche bag.
 
2009-09-27 03:13:37 AM  

lake_huron: A Budget of Dumb Asses
Mark Crislip, MD, Infectious Diseases, 08:40PM Sep 7, 2009


Flu season is here, kinda sorta, it never really went away thanks to H1N1. I was rounding today, lucky me with the three day weekend, when one of my colleagues mentioned a post I had written a year ago at the old blog about the flu vaccine. It was printed and put up in the break room, and he saw it, took it home to his wife, who promptly mailed it to a colleague that is a proud "I never get the flu vaccine" kind of guy.

It is like people who are proud of being ignorant of science. I never understand why people brag about being ignorant or stupid. You would think they would be embarrassed, but then they are probably a... well, let us just see.

Anyway, he read my short rant and evidently changed his mind about getting the flu vaccine this year. Yippee. So what was the powerful, reasoned essay that altered the course of human (well, maybe one human) history?

I give you, slightly rewritten for 2009, a Budget of Dumb Asses.

I had my flu shot today. Well, my anti-flu shot. Protected me, my family, and my patients from sickness and death for another year. Whew.

I wonder if you are one of those Dumb Asses who do not get the flu shot each year? Yes. Dumb Ass. Big D, big A. You may be allergic to the vaccine, you may have had Guillain Barre, in which case I will cut you some slack. But if you don't have those conditions and you work in health care and you don't get a vaccine for one of the following reasons, you are a dumb ass.

1. The vaccine gives me the flu. Dumb ass. It is a killed vaccine. It cannot give you the influenza. It is impossible to get flu from the influenza vaccine.

2. I never get the flu, so I don't need the vaccine. Irresponsible dumb ass. I have never had a head on collision, but I wear my seat belt. And you probably don't use a condom either. So far you have been lucky, and you are a potential winner of a Darwin Award, although since you don't use a condom, you are unfortunately still in the gene pool.

3. Only old people get the flu. Selfish dumb ass. Influenza can infect anyone, and one of the groups who are more likely to die of influenza are the very young. Often those most at risk for dying from influenza are those least able, due to age or underlying diseases, to respond to the vaccine. You can help prevent your old, sickly Grandmother or your newborn daughter from getting influenza by getting the vaccine, so you do not get flu and pass it one to her. Flu, by the way, is highly contagious, with 20 to 50% of contacts with an index case getting the flu. However, Granny may be sitting on a fortune that will come to you, and killing her off with the flu is a great way to get her out of the way and never be caught. That would make a good episode of CSI.

4. I can prevent influenza or treat it by taking echinacea, vitamin C or airborne. Gullible dumb ass cubed then squared. None of these concoctions has any efficacy what so ever against influenza. They neither prevent nor treat influenza. And you can't boost you immune system either. Immunity is not a Jamba Juice. Anyone who says that the immune system can be boosted is also a dumb ass.

5. Flu isn't all that bad a disease. Underestimating dumb ass. Part of the problem with the term flu is that it is used both as a generic term for damn near any viral illness with a fever and is also used for a severe viral pneumonia. Medical people are just as inaccurate about using the term as the general public. The influenza virus directly and indirectly kills 30,000 people and leads to hospitalization of 200,000 in the US each year. Influenza is a nasty lung illness. And what is stomach 'flu'? No such thing, dumb ass.

6. I am not at risk for flu. Denying dumb ass. If you breathe, you are risk for influenza. Here are the groups of people who should not get the flu vaccine (outside of people with severe adverse reactions to the vaccine): Former President Clinton, who evidently doesn't inhale. And people who want to be safe from zombies. If you don't get the vaccine you do not h ...


nice workmanship. lol
 
2009-09-27 05:34:19 AM  
Without going so far as to call anyone a retard over it:

- Antibiotics, massive vitamin doses, and "Airborne" are all completely ineffective against influenza, which is a virus (antibiotics kill bacterial infections).

- Your past health history has no bearing whatsoever on whether a 12-year-old kid is going to sneeze on something you handle today.

- Even if your super-hyped immune system completely throttles the virus to death in hours (it won't), you're carrying it for that period anyway and can spread it. The vaccine allows your immune system to create antibodies immediately, drastically reducing the amount of time that you present a danger to others around you.
 
2009-09-27 06:23:21 AM  
here's some answers to faqs about the h1n1 vaccine.

i got the flu--really the flu, not a bad cold--in college and was miserable. i've always gotten the flu shot since then and haven't gotten the flu since.

i don't know whether i'm going to get h1n1 vaccine, though. by the time the vaccine makes it here, the epidemic will likely have already passed through my community, given the spike in cases we saw late august/early september.
 
2009-09-27 08:35:55 AM  

wolverine161: nice workmanship. lol


Not sure what you mean.

It's (obviously) a cut-and-paste -- this is from a Medscape blog, which would require a subscription and password, so I couldn't link to it. It's funnier than any of the CDC FAQs, and employs the word "dumbass" a lot, so I thought it might be appropriate here.

Looks like we got some informed Farkers in this thread, though.
 
2009-09-27 09:08:38 AM  
Question for lake_huron:

Without holding you responsible for the reply, vaccine for the seasonal variety + H1N1? and if so, in what order?

Thank you...
 
2009-09-27 09:48:24 AM  

Old_Gringo: Question for lake_huron:

Without holding you responsible for the reply, vaccine for the seasonal variety + H1N1? and if so, in what order?

Thank you...


I'm not lake_huron but here is the answer to your question: you need both, get each one as soon as they're available.
 
2009-09-27 09:55:49 AM  
espiaboricua: Many thanks for the link. Obtaining unbiased information here in Mexico is pretty difficult and the health "authorities" cannot seem to agree with each other. The family is of course looking forward to a trip to the US of A to get vaccinated go shopping. Ha!! surprise !!! No shot, no mall...
 
2009-09-27 04:58:30 PM  
M only concern is that two peole in my family have hd adverse side effects vaccines

My aunt went blind from a bad batch of flu shots
My cousin wh was 1 became autistic after getting a flu shot, almost imediately after taking it.


I am just worried my family is at higher risk for complications, so no shot fr m
 
2009-09-27 05:00:37 PM  
Also the company that is making these has a long history of releasing vaccines before they are full tested whih then result i complications or death. I dont trust the ompany
 
2009-09-27 05:53:34 PM  

citizen_stew: M only concern is that two peole in my family have hd adverse side effects vaccines

My aunt went blind from a bad batch of flu shots
My cousin wh was 1 became autistic after getting a flu shot, almost imediately after taking it.


The infant vaccination cycle is usually given around the time autism first begins to show its signs. Your cousin still would've been autistic without the vaccine. They just would've been autistic and vulnerable to potentially deadly childhood diseases.
 
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