Dogfather_jr

No, I'm serious. You can only listen to nutjobs argue from extremist positions for so long before you realize that nobody really knows WTF is going on or how to make things right.

GratefulDead: I support deposing Sadaam due to the cease fire agreement he agreed to in 1991 and has not adhered to.

I find it interesting that people talk about being for or against 'this war'.

There is no war to speak of, at least not yet.

The ability to avert war lies in a couple different places:

1. Iraq: they can abide by the resolution and disclose and disarm.
2. The U.S: they could choose not to follow through with their determination to see Iraq disarmed.

#1 probably isn't going to happen, though it is the best solution.

#2 can't happen, because that signals to every country in the world that not only is the U.N. now a body of limited effectiveness, but also that the U.S. is bound by their indecisiveness.

USA! USA!
bomb saddam!
enough is enough.
time to show who gots the BIG bombs

GratefulDead - I'm gonna answer for her.. Therez plenty of reading on why people are in support of the war... For homeland security.. for upholding the UN resolutions.. for cheaper oil.. etc..etc.. I'm not trying to play a game with harmonia.. I just want an answer... and do u realize everything he stands for (before u defend him)

Sorry to break your hearts, but I'm a growed up, too.

Just look at my profile. I've been to Yale and everything. I even joined a secret society when I was there.

I've heard that it makes members of the underclass feel good about themselves to hurl baseless insults around, but this is the first time I've seen it myself.

Bravo, fools.

Suebhoney: what part has he not adhered too? gRanted he pushes the limits as far as he can, but you know damn well we would do the same. We are no longer shrinking or nuke repositorys we are INCREASING them. We bailed out of SALT, why can't saddam bail out of something he was forced into? It is a two way street. Once we declare moral justification to invade a country that has not been aggressive to us (that we have been very aggressive towards) suddenly we are no better than them, from a moral perspective. And democracy is about MORALS more than it is about "capitalism" though many refuse to see that, as they are clouded by greed.

I also support Sadaam leaving in exile, which I think all would agree is preferable to war. But since that is unlikely to happen, what does anyone suppose we do now that the UN doesn't even support it's own resolutions and cease fire agreements?

I guess we should just leave him in power to do what he pleases. This argument could be carried over to GWB also, the silver lining in that though, is that we get to try again in 2004.

If you American farkers really want to make a difference, register to vote for the 2004 elections.

Gte269: She answered herself! ;)

I will paraphrase what I interpreted from Harmonia's answer. Our funds could be much better spent helping countries we have access to, gaining allies, and working for common good, rather than destruction. I certainly don't agree with everything harmonia says, but I think he has some very valid points, and I don't see anyone trying to refute them with fact, only with empty rhetoric and insults.

George_W_Snatch: good comeback! ;)

"We bailed out of SALT, why can't saddam bail out of something he was forced into?"

Your kidding right? I'm being seriuos in the question, you see no difference?

GratefulDead:
Democracy is about "morals". Aren't you then making GWB's argument for him?

As far as non-compliance with the cease fire, three words, Al Samoud 2 Missiles. Ok, maybe 4 words.

I see I need to work on my bold tags again. My apologies.

Suebhoney if the UN supported it's own resolutions, we would have to collectively attack isreal first. here is why

I voted for gore, and i will vote against dubya again.

We should keep a close eye on him, as we have been. Invading kills too many innocents, and leaves their families wanting revenge. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind sort of thing...

GratefulDead
Gte269: She answered herself! ;)
I will paraphrase what I interpreted from Harmonia's answer.

Can you please point out the answer that you paraphrased?

GratefulDead - good answer... but I dont think harmonia would agree with you.. 1) he's not from the US so he probably doesn't really care how we spend our funds or 2) if we get allies or 3) if we destroy (ourselves)... he would agree on the common good part.. but thats pretty generic

"hurl baseless insults around, but this is the first time I've seen it myself"

Yes and pretending you're the president to somehow make whatever point you think your are making puts all of your comments in what category if not baseless?

oh well, at least your "comments" provide marginal entertainment.

03-12-03 01:44:23 PM Shut........UP

Please don't feed the trolls. It only makes them worse.

GratefulDead

About Israel.

The UN resolutions passed against israel were general assembly resolutions, as opposed to the Security Council. This is equivalent to politely asking. It is not a demand, but a polite suggestion. Israel has decided not to abide by those resolutions for its own reasons, but that does not make them in violation of the binding resolutions of the security council as with Iraq. There is a definite difference between Security Council resolutions and General Assembly resolutions.

In recap:

General assembly resolutions= nonbinding suggestions to said nation.

Security Council resolutions= binding orders to said nation to comply with said orders.

ShutUP, stop encouraging George_W_Snatch, please.

Maybe if we ignore him, he'll go away.

maybe if we ignore him, he'll keep making senseless posts.. either way he chooses is fun for me

When I talk, alot of people believe what I say, just because I'm the President. You should know, Shut........UP, you're one of them.

Therefore, my comments are far from baseless.

GratefulDead: No where in any of my posts have I defended Israel or the United States policy toward Israel.

I don't believe that what Israel is doing is right. But I also don't believe what the Palestinians are doing is right either.

I do not think that the world community will be able to solve a crisis between Israel and Palestine until Sharon and Arafat both step down and furthermore, do not believe in our foreign policy regarding these two countries.

my bad, I will stop feeding the trolls.

moving on:
Gratefuldead. Accuracy.org is owned by Sam Husseini who is not exactly a pro-Isreal supporter.

The site you listed has an agenda, maybe you should include that fact with the link next time.

SueB - SHOW YOUR BOOBIES!..

o wait.. that was the last flame-war you were gonna do that

Suebhoney:

I agree compltely with your exile post. And as I said a couple of days ago, if people want to march, march to the polls in 2004

GratefulDead:

How fitting you would align yourself with a child.

Logics Fist, I think you need to reread the link I provided, and the link off it reagrding isreal. You are sortof correct about SALT, and I see you point, but I strongly disagree that all it does is "annoy our neighbors", i think the repercussions are much wider than that. Also, you neglect the whole new "tactical nuke" crap.

as for the harmonia bashers, you guys really want his opinion for someone you espouse to despise.

Anyway, in the immortal words of cartman, "screw you guys, I'm goin home!"

;)

George_W_Snatch

There are certain types of people who tend to lose my respect. One of them is the type that provides no cognative argument, no rationalle, and no rhyme or reason to what they say...but expect people to either find them funny, or take them seriously...which you provide a very efficient example of.

Detail Bush all you want, knock his policies all you want, insult him all you want...thats fine with me. But don't try and pretend to be him. That is beyond stupid.

03-12-03 01:53:21 PM Gte269
SueB - SHOW YOUR BOOBIES!..

Buy me a new webcam and I will. ;)

shut...up but the list they show is FACT. I don't know about their agenda, but they are only showing fact on this link.

And I am really going home! later all!

GratefulDead - know thy enemy... keep friends close.. enemies closer

I got a dollar.. anyone else?

GratefulDead: As always, it has been a pleasure discussing this topic with you. Have a safe trip home (no pun intended).

Pssst...I'm a monkey, not a troll.

03-12-03 01:58:15 PM Gte269
I got a dollar.. anyone else?

LOL. Only 39.95 more people to go.

I grow weary of this garbage. I have no sympathy for the iraqis. If they are tired of saddam, why don't they revolt? "But Iraq's armies are too strong and they are too poor "
Did it occur to anyone the minute a serious opposing group to saddam rose in Iraq the US ( with or without the UN ) would likely send in the calvary and airstrikes to mop up and instill the new government?
It's not like the American Revolution, in which the odds were as badly stacked against the revolutionarys and the only major ally was the French, and couldn't count on support from our own country...
I think what's going on over there is absolutely awful. But I don't have much sympathy for them unless someone actually tries. And I haven't heard anything of a major revolutionary in Iraq. Someone feel free to prove me wrong.

Mass_Media: No major revolutionary since all dissenters have either been expelled from the country or killed.

4096:

You got the BFG!!!!

Talk about BFG:


Holy OMFG!! Everyone with eyes and QuickTime needs to watch the "Cannon Detonation" clip from this page:

http://www.vce.com/grable.html

Suebhoney
Mass_Media: No major revolutionary since all dissenters have either been expelled from the country or killed.

That goes into my idea book.

Mass_Media

Its not quite as simple as a revolution. There have certainly been attempts to take over, but Saddam has quashed them one after the other, the lastest being a Kurdish uprising in 1991.

Saddam's government is set up not unlike the system utilized by Stalin and company. It instills fear into the populace and constaintly propagandizes them as well. Secret police abound and everyone walks on eggshells so they are not targeted for assassation. For example, Saddam's guards are regularly woken up in the middle of the night by armed masked personnel who ask if he is with them or not (simulating a revolution for instance) if the answer is "yes", they are executed on the spot by the police forces for disloyalty.

A revolution could succeed in Iraq, but the situation would have to change dramatically in the overall populace. There would have to be a leader to rally around, or a cause, there would have to be arms supplies and equipment, and training facilities. All of which is now currently lacking.

the last uprising happend in 91, they thought we had their backs, we let them down. they died. Thank the UN for that one and Powell for cowtowing to them.

I'll kick a dollar for farkette boobies.

sweet.. we got $2

Vrax

Cool gun, but impraticial in real use. Tests showed that by the time the army got the darn thing set up and ready, it could be targeted and destroyed by enemy overflights or missle barrages many times over, rendering it essentially useless as a tactical weapon. It was mainly built in the 1950s so the army could have a piece of the new nuclear bomb pie. (My uncle works on the artillary range near Nellis AFB, so I got an earful of this when I asked about it a while back.)

Anyone care to make it $3?

LogicsFist
It instills fear into the populace and constaintly propagandizes them as well.

That is from my idea book.

George W Snatch: I hope to vote you out of office as well in 2004. Since the Patriot II is now being written and your AG is taking away all of my Constitutional rights.

Fink

I personally wish that we had supported them...then theres a possibility that this whole current mess could be over. A mistake, and a bloody one at that.

The guiding principles of The Project For A New American Century (which cause Tadlette and Harmonia so much heartburn:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;


• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;


• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;


• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Sign me up.