RamblinReck89: That's why the federal government should pass a law equalizing all state income taxes. That way nobody could get away with this kind of thing. And there should be a fee exponentially related to your net worth if you move to another country with lower taxes. All that money could then be returned to the people the rich had to step on to get rich.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the specific details, but no, you are definitely not a troll. This would pretty much involve dissolving the states. I'm not sure how I feel about this. If it makes rich people suffer a little, though, that is a major selling point.

betona: Cyrus982: all the rich people I know are only rich because daddy was rich, and his daddy before them

I'm the exact opposite. Every wealthy person I've ever known started their own business from nothing or worked their way up from cheesy beginnings to lofty levels in some big company. My dad bought a 2-man company when I was in 3rd grade for $2,000 and turned it into the largest in its industry on the planet in about ten years and sold it to a public company (there went my job after college). Now retired in his 80s, he and mom phart off and travel all the time and send me 4-year-old joke e-mails. And he certainly hasn't given me any money at all.

In fact, my experience about inherited wealth is that over time the lazy kids and grandkids blow all the money because they don't have the work ethic to keep growing the wealth. I've seen that first-hand sooo many times.

Just curious, but how do you square this statement:

"Every wealthy person I've ever known started their own business from nothing or worked their way up from cheesy beginnings to lofty levels in some big company."

with this statement:

"In fact, my experience about inherited wealth is that over time the lazy kids and grandkids blow all the money because they don't have the work ethic to keep growing the wealth. I've seen that first-hand sooo many times."

They seem, prima facie, contradictory.

IStateTheObvious: Bill in Little Rock: A couple of quotes from Neal Boortz, my favorite equal-opportunity offender:

"The poor are not the "less fortunate." They are instead, the "more irresponsible." They put themselves there, and they drag their children into that status with them. They are the "less prepared," the "less diligent," and the "less able." They weren't unlucky. They did it to themselves."

Stupid statement. I was working just fine up until mid October of last year. Most of the people I work for make over $250k a year. It was like someone flipped a switch, and now I am unemployed. Now what happened around that time last year? Perhaps it was a certain someone running for president and his poll numbers shot up, making it clear he would be elected. (Well not perhaps, the people I worked for told me so.) I didn't choose poverty, it was forced on me.

But I wasn't unprepared. I've been preparing for several years now by reducing my need for money. I have solar panels (enough for lights and tv), big garden, lots of land to hunt on, wood stove with plenty of trees for fuel, an ethanol distillery, paid off house etc. So I am technically poor, but will survive just fine (a part time job at walmart pays what few bills I have, plus some). In short, I knew there was a bubble that was going to burst sooner or later. And sooner or later, those dollar bills aren't going to be worth the paper they are printed on. Won't effect me too much tho.

/Got plenty of guns and ammo
//When the time comes, I don't care you didn't properly prepare, Mr Boortz...I don't care that you are starving...take your worthless paper and get off my land.

Let's be friends. I'm knocking survival skills down one at a time. I've become pretty good at rallying help, organizing people, and psychological manipulation. I'm pretty close to being able to do everything I'd need to build a house. Next up is hunting and farming. Then I want to become a black belt and a marksman and I'll be all set.

Tommy Moo: If it makes rich people suffer a little, though, that is a major selling point.

Who do you remind me of? Let me think...
Oh yeah, this guy:

Finally, giving up, the fox turned up his nose and said, "They're probably sour anyway," and proceeded to walk away.

Yeah guys, we're running out of rich people here in NY.

And seriously, fark Golisano. He left because he tried to buy the entire state government and failed.

I say good, let the rich leave and maybe prices will fall even more (especially housing) because demand has dropped. The states that get all the rich people aren't going to be too happy when the rich buy up everything and prices start rising in their areas.

RamblinReck89: That's why the federal government should pass a law equalizing all state income taxes. That way nobody could get away with this kind of thing. And there should be a fee exponentially related to your net worth if you move to another country with lower taxes. All that money could then be returned to the people the rich had to step on to get rich.

A slightly refined version of this:

1) Make state taxes deductible from federal taxable income

2) Raise marginal tax rates to make up the lost revenue

This would have the effect of raising federal taxes on anyone who lives in a state that lets them off the hook. It wouldn't completely close the loophole, but it would make it slightly less attractive, and do it without completely dissolving states.

untaken_name: "In fact, my experience about inherited wealth is that over time the lazy kids and grandkids blow all the money because they don't have the work ethic to keep growing the wealth. I've seen that first-hand sooo many times."

They seem, prima facie, contradictory.

Not really. The ones I personally knew who had parents or grandparents with wealth were all flat broke. And I mean all the way down, trailer park with a cigarette hanging from the lip in one case.

Granted, I've never lived in the Northeast where the popcollar preppies with daddy's money live.

YMMV

I love these threads where the little teenaged lol-bertarians get out their Ayn Rand books and try to lecture the grown-ups about economics, based on some irrelevant news story they haven't read, and don't understand.
This is just a story about an influence-peddling crook who couldn't get his way and now proposes to take his marbles and go home. Nothing more. No great macro-lessons about anything to be learned here.

Have we started referring to those who create wealth as "leeches," yet?

I've never understood the reasoning behind taxing people more money because they are rich. What does a rich person do that requires them to give more money to the government? Do they deteriorate our roads faster? Do they require more military protection?
Is it something to do with social security, because they might need more money with their lifestyle?
Or is it because so many people are greedy bastards that they will try to capitalize off every lame excuse? "they make more money, they can afford it."

Well I for one can't wait for those rich bastards to leave NY. I'll take thier job in a heartbeat. Then I can get rich, then I can leave.

Great job NY..it's no wonder I Heart NY.

IStateTheObvious: Bill in Little Rock: A couple of quotes from Neal Boortz, my favorite equal-opportunity offender:

"The poor are not the "less fortunate." They are instead, the "more irresponsible." They put themselves there, and they drag their children into that status with them. They are the "less prepared," the "less diligent," and the "less able." They weren't unlucky. They did it to themselves."

Stupid statement. I was working just fine up until mid October of last year. Most of the people I work for make over $250k a year. It was like someone flipped a switch, and now I am unemployed. Now what happened around that time last year? Perhaps it was a certain someone running for president and his poll numbers shot up, making it clear he would be elected. (Well not perhaps, the people I worked for told me so.) I didn't choose poverty, it was forced on me.

But I wasn't unprepared. I've been preparing for several years now by reducing my need for money. I have solar panels (enough for lights and tv), big garden, lots of land to hunt on, wood stove with plenty of trees for fuel, an ethanol distillery, paid off house etc. So I am technically poor, but will survive just fine (a part time job at walmart pays what few bills I have, plus some). In short, I knew there was a bubble that was going to burst sooner or later. And sooner or later, those dollar bills aren't going to be worth the paper they are printed on. Won't effect me too much tho.

/Got plenty of guns and ammo
//When the time comes, I don't care you didn't properly prepare, Mr Boortz...I don't care that you are starving...take your worthless paper and get off my land...NOW! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

FTFY

steklo: Well I for one can't wait for those rich bastards to leave NY. I'll take thier job in a heartbeat. Then I can get rich, then I can leave.

Great job NY..it's no wonder I Heart NY.

Uhm, small kinks in this...

- Some of them OWN the company. They can simply take the company with them, can you?
- Some are able to telecommute to work from their new home. They don't have to physically be there to do their job, and can get there fast if needed.


Now, considering their jobs are not essentially on the line, but a bunch of the middle class's could be, would you rather they move?

/glad to be in Texas. Sure, there are a bunch of stupid people, but I can blow them away with a gun I bought with the money I saved.

Same thing happen in Maryland with Gov. O'Realy cunning plan.

Or is it because so many people are greedy bastards that they will try to capitalize off every lame excuse? "they make more money, they can afford it."

Anyone with money obviously got it by exploiting someone, probably poor minorities; therefore, if we tax them more, we're "getting even" with them. Neat, huh?

Capital is mobile. If you make your state hostile to business, you lose the producers and the jobs they create. There's no lesson here for other states or the Fed, though, at all. Nope.

WSJ journal article recently, look for it if want. 94% of American millionaires are first generation and self made.

Farkers here are mostly underachieving liberal douchewipes who are just jealous that so many people are better looking, smell better, have chicks that weigh under 250 pounds, have a good job, work hard, make money, and laugh at lazy welfare eating dummies like liberal Farkers. So you cry. Well, all that crying will make sure you cannot get a better job. Because only a faceless, nameless corporation would accidentally hire your stupid lazy asses in the first place. Good job, Captain Dipshiat.

"The rich and wise are bound for Hell. Only the poor and ignorant will enter Heaven."

jso2897: I love these threads where the little teenaged lol-bertarians get out their Ayn Rand books and try to lecture the grown-ups about economics, based on some irrelevant news story they haven't read, and don't understand.
This is just a story about an influence-peddling crook who couldn't get his way and now proposes to take his marbles and go home. Nothing more. No great macro-lessons about anything to be learned here.

Tommy Moo: Not if the other 49 states start doing it too. The rich will NOT move to Guatemala, or even a posh European nation. They will pay to remain in the culture they grew up in, near their families. Soak 'em.

Ever heard of the "jet set"? It was the in thing for rich people in the 60s and 70s (the time of the highest tax brackets) to official live in the Cayman Islands, the Bahamas, or Switzerland. Then they'd spend a few months each year in a different part of the States so they never'd establish official residency in any one state. If you think the same thing wouldn't happen again you're delusional or criminally stupid.

how come liberals never ask the question, "do we need to stop spending so much instead?"

why is their answer always "well...guess we better tax the ever living shiat outta something to cover our spending."

12349876: Gato Negro: Prediction: Fark's liberals won't be able to understand this.

I understand it: Rich people are farking greedy.

Not as greedy as the state politicians.

Thunderpipes

Farkers here are mostly underachieving liberal douchewipes who are just jealous that so many people are better looking, smell better, have chicks that weigh under 250 pounds, have a good job, work hard, make money, and laugh at lazy welfare eating dummies like liberal Farkers. So you cry. Well, all that crying will make sure you cannot get a better job. Because only a faceless, nameless corporation would accidentally hire your stupid lazy asses in the first place. Good job, Captain Dipshiat.


Dude, why are you so ugly? Post after post - nothing but rage spewing forth. Any rational discussion or appreciation of what you are trying to say is just obscured by your over the top hate. Maybe you don't even know why you are the way you are. Quiet self reflection is hard when your mouth is going full blast at 10.

At one time I was amused by you because I thought it was an act. Then I thought you were for real and I occasionally got upset by your simplistic little rants. But now I just kind of feel sorry for you. Maybe you're a troll. If so, getting your kicks by doing what you do is pretty pathetic and you're a sad little man. If you are not trolling, get help. Seriously. Your anger must be a heavy burden to bear and life if too short.

Don't get me wrong. You are entitled to your opinions. But a reasonable, rational discourse would be nice for a change.

jso2897: I love these threads where the little teenaged lol-bertarians get out their Ayn Rand books and try to lecture the grown-ups about economics, based on some irrelevant news story they haven't read, and don't understand.
This is just a story about an influence-peddling crook who couldn't get his way and now proposes to take his marbles and go home. Nothing more. No great macro-lessons about anything to be learned here.

Actually it's about a blue state that has overwhelming deficits and debt and can't figure out that more taxes are not the answer. You can only tax people so much before they leave. Heaven forbid they cut spending. This blind retard, in the worst recession in decades, decides to what....increase spending by 10%. Seems like a great idea to me.

tgregory: how come liberals never ask the question, "do we need to stop spending so much instead?"

why is their answer always "well...guess we better tax the ever living shiat outta something to cover our spending."

Because that's the fiscally responsible answer.

Republicans spend and ask China to pay for it.

HotWingConspiracy: Yeah guys, we're running out of rich people here in NY.

And seriously, fark Golisano. He left because he tried to buy the entire state government and failed.

Fark you, moron. Why don't you do a little research and learn about how much money that man has donated to charitable causes in NY.

HotWingConspiracy: tgregory: how come liberals never ask the question, "do we need to stop spending so much instead?"

why is their answer always "well...guess we better tax the ever living shiat outta something to cover our spending."

Because that's the fiscally responsible answer.

Republicans spend and ask China to pay for it.

The fiscally responsible answer is to not spend money that you don't have. Also, cutting spending when you don't have the money would be responsible.

CBR ME ASAP: HotWingConspiracy: Yeah guys, we're running out of rich people here in NY.

And seriously, fark Golisano. He left because he tried to buy the entire state government and failed.

Fark you, moron. Why don't you do a little research and learn about how much money that man has donated to charitable causes in NY.

Yeah, Al Capone was charitable too. What in fark is that supposed to prove?

He got pissed when all the influence he attempted to buy didn't get him the tax breaks he wanted. In a fit, he called a press conference to announce he's leaving, then threw a ton of cash at a dirty politician to attempt a take over of the state government.fark him, he can go die in Florida.

PC LOAD LETTER: WTF, there are more luxury high rises being built everywhere here in NYC even DURING the recession, and they are sold out by the time its finished building. Something doesn't add up here.

external funds? lots of SWF's are lapping up premium investments while the prices are (relatively) lower

CBR ME ASAP: HotWingConspiracy: tgregory: how come liberals never ask the question, "do we need to stop spending so much instead?"

why is their answer always "well...guess we better tax the ever living shiat outta something to cover our spending."

Because that's the fiscally responsible answer.

Republicans spend and ask China to pay for it.

The fiscally responsible answer is to not spend money that you don't have. Also, cutting spending when you don't have the money would be responsible.

Yeah great. Let me know when you find a "conservative" politician who does more than offer lip service to those concepts.

Here in our little hamlet of State College, PA we have six municipalities that make up the Centre Region... The Borough of State College, and Halfmoon, Harris, College, Patton, and Ferguson Townships.

There is a relatively large difference in taxes between different municipalities in even our small area. If you make $120k and live in a $250k house here (not unreasonable numbers) it costs you $2,000+ more per year to live in the Borough than to live in College Township.

I live in College Township and live about a mile and a half from downtown, it's not even five minutes in the car, and is about a 30 minute walk at a decent pace.

Why would I pay nearly $200 per month (plus increased real estate costs) just to live in the Borough? I'm not even rich and it's not worth it to me!

AlwaysRightBoy: They've been taxing the hell out of me since 1981. Probably the reason I can't afford to move. The Cuomo commuter tax was the best, they would would tax my wife's income who worked in Jersey along with my income.
/Jersey commuter
//Jersey taxes are sooo much lower....a yeah

Yea... but the expensive commute, property tax, and paying 2 states taxes also suck.

Then again... could take the "conservative" approach and cut back train service forcing me to drive in every day and pay even more for parking and gas. That would still be worse.

// NJ resident working in NYC like millions of others.

Toronto and our retarded mayor David "Deficit" Miller is trying the same "tax the rich" strategy, but is having to keep moving the bar lower and lower as to who is "rich".

It's defined as anyone with any money left.

Cyrus982: Here we go again, feeling bad for the rich. If someone makes 10 mil. in a year and you take 80%, they still have enough to live the rest of their lives totally worry free.

I'm not saying we should tax anyone that much, even the rich, but even if we did they would still live privledged lives of luxary.

I wish I could be as "unfortunate" as that. I wish the only unfairness in my life was just that I had to give a little bit of my vast fortune to people who had none.

That one word, that red one?...yeah, that's why you'll never be anything more than a disgruntled, envious, lacky. While you're busy "wishing" others are out there "doing". You already got the only piece of advice you'll ever need to be a success in life:

untaken_name: Find a need and fill it. You're welcome.

That's it. You even got it for free. Guess what though (and this one will piss you off) you have to have the idea. You have to identify the need and then formulate the solution. That part requires something other than "wishing". It requires a little smarts, some research and a determination to make the solution.

"Wishing". Yeah, good luck with that.

Dr. Q Alias: I say good, let the rich leave and maybe prices will fall even more (especially housing) because demand has dropped. The states that get all the rich people aren't going to be too happy when the rich buy up everything and prices start rising in their areas.

Yeah... I for one would be PISSED if my house value actually increased in value so I wasn't underwater.

PS. The richest 1% pay most all of the taxes... If 1% of the population leaves, that will have little effect on available housing/housing prices, but a huge effect on city/state income.

12349876: I understand it: Rich people are farking greedy don't get and stay rich by paying more taxes than they have to.

What a concept.

tgregory: how come liberals never ask the question, "do we need to stop spending so much instead?"

In all fairness neither do 99.9% of republicans. Care to look at some spending stats from bush? *either one

Dr. Q Alias: I say good, let the rich leave and maybe prices will fall even more (especially housing) because demand has dropped.

Because nothing helps an economy like plummeting housing prices.

It is unfair and unreasonable to tax the hell out of the rich.

We should only be taxing the shiat out of the rich.

/Hey, I'm reasonable.

The only plus of over-taxing wealthy people is that they are forced to make more charitable donations as tax shields.

bmitchell82: PS. The richest 1% pay most all of the taxes... If 1% of the population leaves, that will have little effect on available housing/housing prices, but a huge effect on city/state income.

That's a bit of a stupid statement if you live off that the richest 1% also earn 20% of the income. That's income they would NOT earn in Monaco, or Ireland (now that Ireland's house of cards has forced them to try to tax themselves out of arguably the worst recession crater in the first world).

The richest 1% pay 28% of the taxes while earning about 20% of the total income. Seems a pretty fair trade since their income is reliant upon the stable and productive society everyone provides. Note also that it is the rich, those with real power throughout history, who have created our somewhat progressive tax structure - works far better than Coliseums to prevent revolts in the face of massive wealth disparity. I'm fine kicking in a few extra bucks if it means that unemployed mouth breather will resist the urge to torch my Porsche.

FTA: and media mogul Rush Limbaugh became ex-New Yorkers this year

Well, we may be going bankrupt, but at least we got rid of Limbaugh...

howdyyall9999: The only plus of over-taxing wealthy people is that they are forced to make more charitable donations as tax shields.

Heh, I suppose you noticed that Congress valiantly shot down Obama's suggestion to close that hole a bit. Congress is the ultimate rich boys club.

Finally, somebody has explained why there are no rich people in New York City and why the uniformly prosperous citizens of Alabama walk on streets paved with gold.

Maybe if they do what i did with sim city 2000.
cut your tax rate to 0% for a few years spending nothing (since you have an infrastructure). then suddenly jack it up to 15% for a while till everyone leaves.
rinse, repeat, level off around 4-5% .
most booming city \evar\

RamblinReck89: That's why the federal government should pass a law equalizing all state income taxes. That way nobody could get away with this kind of thing. And there should be a fee exponentially related to your net worth if you move to another country with lower taxes. All that money could then be returned to the people the rich had to step on to get rich.

you sound poor, in fact most of you sound poor.